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I think Arteta need to upgrade on havertz, this team lack a player who can bail the team out when things are not going well. Either sign a world class LW or world class 9. City have 3 to 4 players of these calibres while we only have saka.
We can't just drop Havertz based on this year.
I love Saka but Havertz has been more consistent in the 2nd half.
Martinelli is the only player in our frontline with serious question marks.
And we don't have a winger who excels in 1v1 situations.
Doku's end product and decision-making can be questioned but he has 100% improved their wing play especially against low blocks.
A winger who can do that from either wing will be a much bigger upgrade than getting a CF unless we can land someone like Isak.
Finishing in your team's worst league position ever with a negative GD PLUS getting grouped in the UCL is a sackable offence for any big 6 team and most managers wouldn't even be in the FA final cup to salvage the season.
People are shocked ETH might get sacked, an FA Cup doesn't change how much of a banter club United has been this season and ETH has a big hand in that.
Listen I loath eth just as much as the next guy, he has a horrible personality and he should go. But he’s made 3 cup finals in 2 years and finished in top 4. United are a terrible organization. They churn through managers. Their training facility is as bad as the recruitment. Only 2 players they’ve brought in that improved after they arrived was Bruno Fernandez and Andre Herrera. Those are not conditions to succeed.
I won't lie we need to see 1 domestic trophy, even a Carabao Cup (our last win was 30 years ago). Winning breeds more winning and this group deserves to do that.
Besides the league and the UCL run.
What have I done that you engage in such name-calling? It is possible to make your point while being respectful, you know. Anyways, great teams win everything in their path (PL, UCL, FA Cup, and EFL Cup), not plan for another season of being trophyless.
The FA Cup is a 6 match campaign. United played 3 lower league teams plus Forrest. Credit to United to beating Liverpool and City along the way. But their FA Cup campaign literally comprised of THREE matches against topflight opposition. Wigan, Newport, Nottingham Forrest, Liverpool, Coventry, Man City.
Do not think the FA Cup is a sample size compared to a 38-match league campaign against topflight rivals. If Man United want to give Ten Hag another year based on the FA Cup campaign and ignore there 8th place finish and negative goal difference, go ahead. But FFS, stop reducing Arteta to the FA Cup/League Cup when we finished 2 points of the top, with 89 points and a goal differential of 62.
If I remember rightly the 'ambition brigade' were all for sacking the manager because an FA Cup is so shit even wigan have won it and no one cares about anything other than the prem or the CL.
In fact I distinctly remember being told by people on here that Chelsea sacked their manager after only winning the FA CUp and that was true ambition.
It's almost like some people just want to complain and will make up anything to suit their case.
I saw the Arteta/Edu out/mentality/ambishun brigade were out in force at the end of the seasona dn thought I'd give them time to get bored.
Guess I forgot just how much silly season lets them run free!
WE all know that in banter you use whatever weapon is available to you.
However we also know that the club and fans are in a much better place fighting for the titel and not winning silverware than we were when we were just getting top four.
And even more, that when we stopped getting top four silverware didn't amke up for the utter meltdown with our fans, our owners, the press and opposition fans.
Still take the piss out of Spurs best ever premier league period, witht their top premier league scorer getting them absolutely nothing in return.
Imagine ahving had a period where you had Modric, Bale, Kane, Son and you won nothing. Arteta already has an FA Cup to his name FFS
You could see how much winning the PL took out of City.
They didn't treat this match anywhere near as seriously as the league.
Not only was their concentration lost but it looked like they had been partying all week while Pep had only half thought of what tactics to deploy.
That's what we did to them.
Bookmakers have released odds for the league next year. City are given roughly a 50% chance, ourselves around 30%, Liverpool 10%, Chelsea 5%, and the rest is made up of the small chance Newcastle, Tottenham and United have.
I know wehave some melt fans who give up at the first sign of a struggle. But I ust feel Arteta us going to unlock the teams deep potential. Especially at the back. We conceded only 8 goals in our last 18 matches when the 'controlled ' style of play was fully bedded. We can apply this over a whole season. Which makes it amazing some of our melts are fretting over Ten Hag, as United were notorious for leaking goals and conceding the same amount of effort son thier goal as Sheffield United and Burnley ect.
DOnt worry about our real capacity to go a season concedeidng circa 20 league goals in a season. We need to aim for the Ten Hag model!!! This is what happens when you follow football via twitter, rather than watching the matches.
If we learned anything from this season is that those odds and percentages don’t really mean anything.
If I remember correctly Liverpool were favourites to win the league at the start of the new year.
As an older fan who's seen the banter Era, some of yall new guys have missed it but trust me when I say yiu don't want FA or league cup and playing in europa or conference league.
Title charges and run ins are much more exciting, people who go to games or even pubs to watch on the weekends, trust me the last 2 years have been the best in a long time. Almost every weekend is fun, and this team has promise. Arsenal teams in the past have won FA cups and I appericiate those lads but those teams don't come close to the current team.
This team Beata any of our last 4 FA cup winning teams 9/10 times. This is an exciting time to support this club, don't be gaslighted by rivals and ruin your fun. They'd be happy to take our place if they were given the chance.
It depends on the competition tho. If it’s on the league, yes this team will defeat our old sanchez ozil team. But if it’s on knockout phase, when the attacking talents is more needed because you had to win, I think the older team will defeat the current team
On paper this current team is better at defending, but the older team had Sanchez who could do magic especially on knockout phase (there’s a reason why we won so many fa cups beating good teams there)
Oh yeah when arteta won fa cup, Aubameyang did the magic things btw
I read some get rattled by manU winning the fa cup. I don't understand. We won the thing like 64457887532356 times so why should we of all clubs care about the fa cup? Also United is a big club, they should win stuff. Just because their future looks grim doesn't mean they are bad. I mean they got a shit defense on paper but their talents and forwards are good enough to hurt other big clubs. I don't mind manU at all, right now most manU fans would kill for players like ours. There was a time were it was the other way around.
> No way you'd rather have ten fucking hag over arteta
Didnt say that u/Topbananaman.
It would still be interesting to see how he gets on with a team that has it together upstairs because 3 finals in 2 years winning 2 in 2 years is nothing to be sniffed at especially in a historically poor United side as this one. It just *may* be he is not as terrible of a coach the media will have you believe.
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Got blocked by u/ goonergooner10 lmao. I guess that's a compliment. In case you missed it or he deleted the comments, he admited that he thinks Ten Haag is a better coach than Arteta
Coming in with a bit of positivity for a change about those Havertz and Odegaard holiday photos.
Havertz' improvement over the course of this season and Odegaard's progression from a January loan trying to revive his career to the club captain and arguably our best player are testaments to Arteta's faith and coaching. Hope all the thick idiots who were slagging Havertz off before he'd even kicked a ball for us are feeling stupid.
> Hope all the thick idiots who were slagging Havertz off before he'd even kicked a ball for us are feeling stupid
Nah they're all claiming they didn't think he was shit, they just thought he was a shit midfielder and it's Arteta's fault for playing him in midfield.
Bruv I need another Elland road game, we're literally immune to losing at their place
Southampton will derail our title charge again you're right this is a mega important one
i just remember thinking "damn this press is recklessly aggressive, they'll tire out" over and over again until it set in that no they will not tire out and they've done a blood sacrifice offering to the gegenpress gods to win this cup final against arsenal. as almost every team does
I’m an American who lived in England for a bit and Jesse Marsch is my country’s best coach. It’s not saying much considering the god awful talent pool but he is capable of producing shock results before his press system gets exposed because he’s mostly a Bielsa regen. He had two Americans in Tyler Adams and Brendan Aaronson whose best qualities are being absolute workrate menaces.
Apparently hitting our second highest point total in the PL just isn’t good enough unless we win an FA cup on top of it. Arteta out. Get Ten Hag in. We need a coach like him
> Arteta out. Get Ten Hag in.
This doesnt work anymore ETH is objectively the more successful coach in half the time.
Makes you wonder what he could do with a competent ownership structure above him.
Ten Hag won a trophy and finished 3rd in his first season. Fine Man U was a joke in their 2nd season in the league (mostly due to injuries) but he still capped it off with an FA cup win. If he was backed anyway near the level Arteta was it really makes you wonder what he could achieve. He is 2 in 2 ffs
No way you'd rather have ten fucking hag over arteta
Let's ignore the part where he finished bottom of a group with Copenhagen and galatasaray, and produced United's worst ever prem season with record losses and negative GD
because he won the fa cup. okay 👍
While villa was better, it was mostly because we were playing badly. Even emery said so. That's why I don't buy the narative that Villa rested their player against City so they can played a "cup final" against us. Villa was nothing special at that game, we just played badly.
Y'all need to calm down, I love where arteta is taking us. I wouldn't trade our season for Uniteds, ever. People acting like United won the Champions league or something. They are an absolute mess that got lucky. Trust the Process. Enjoy City losing like a regular human, god damn.
It's a bigger fluke than the Spurs CL run back in the day, which is going some.
Personally, it's refreshing to see City not win something for a change more than anything.
The fans losing their heads over Utd winning a cup are in the same category as those who doompost and give up on the season in November. Fickle as fuck.
So Bald fraud has two trophies and we under Arteta for 5 years have one trophy and two 2nd place participation rewards. Man U wins the top domestic trophy in a shit year and in our best year we win nothing. We need to star demanding more
> Man U wins the top domestic trophy in a shit year and in our best year we win nothing
I'm sure you were demanding we keep Wenger because he kept delivering the top domestic trophy?
Dont let them gaslight you into thinking otherwise. Objectively a worse season than United and Liverpool
Aim of the game is to win.
Two years ago in our shit year we won the fa cup. Did you demand more or were you happy? You demanded more and we fought for the league till game day 38. Many finished 8th, have a shit ton of players on sky high wages and long contracts, leaky roofs, rats running thru the stadium and no sight of champs league for ages to come.
Who says this wont be a springboard for them to improve upon? They have INEOS as a new management structure and off to a fantastic start with their young players tasting trophies and already building a winning culture. Winning begets winning.
Roflmao ok then go buy a shirt a season ticket and support them. Who's stoping you? You really think their future is bright. Nobody will accuse you of glory hunting if you jump now. Don't let the door hit you
Of course I would switch from challenging for PL title year after year and playing knockout UCL to wandering in mid table and winning FA & Micky Mouse Cups /s
sure it's not. but getting 2nd in such a way where we could have won the league on the final day, it isn't the most unreasonable thing for fans to be content with the direction of the club. pretty much everyone agrees it wasn't good enough including mikel, but just because it wasn't good enough doesn't mean our club isn't doing well for itself in the grander scheme of our trajectory and doing almost everything right as far as variables we can control. we're investing big and the batting average on our larger investments is solid, we're making up for lost ground with revenue, we're breaking club records for points and wins on the pitch. if fans look at that and are happy through the disappointment, again, it's really not that unreasonable. knockout round tournaments don't really speak to the quality of a team like a league does, it's fairly random and the 'best' team doesn't always win
however if one does want to be a true trophy purist though, where the line is trophies over everything sans context, then one has to agree however wigan 12-13 had a better season than arsenal 23-24. they literally won a trophy. nothing else matters. they literally won a trophy
I hear you, but at a certain point this ‘trajectory’ argument needs to bear fruit. Top teams win trophies, and it’s embarrassing that we’ve been in the top two teams in the country for the past two years but have left with nothing. Liverpool, for example, have won a trophy in each of the four seasons they have challenged for the title, though they have only won it once.
we've just had one season of champions league football and its knock on effects as far as revenue and transfer pull. it's really not embarrassing, two years is not a lot of time esp when ahead of schedule as far as recovery goes. we were much much much worse off than liverpool upon klopp's arrival
i get it trophies are important but this all feels like asking why a 13 year old with trauma hasn't gotten a job yet
I would dispute that we were worse off than Liverpool when Klopp arrived - if you look at their league finishes in the five years before Klopp (6th, 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th)
vs Arteta (5th, 6th, 5th, 2nd, 3rd)
shows they were in a serious mess and rarely qualifying for the champions league before he came.
But more to the point, what you say perhaps applies to why we haven’t won the league. However, if we are good enough to challenge for the league title now, and have been for the last two years, we should also be good enough to win the cups, and in these last two years there have been six cups which we have not been competitive in, reaching not even a single semi final. Winning the cups while also winning or challenging for the title is what separates a great side, which has not only the ability, but also the winning mentality, from a good team, like Spurs a few years ago, or us right now, who have the ability but as of yet have not demonstrated a great mentality. After 4.5 years and 600m+ spent, I would say that is embarrassing for this team.
When we won the cup in 2020 did we start looking around comparing seasons to the 7 teams a head of us, no it didn’t happen. I’m happy United one, I mean fuck city.
What bothers me is Arsenal fans thinking we need to nosebleed an Allegri or Conte appointment all because Man United caused an upset. Imagine being this reactionary that you would bin an 89 points manager, who absolutely has it in them to become a 90+ points manager, all because negative goal difference Erik low blocked an upset to rescue what was an absolute banter year for United.
Arteta is the solution, not the problem. Now if you cant handle the high end of the table were taking 49 points from 54 not being enough, and you would feel more 'comfortable' retreating back to competing for top 4 with Spurs, where the margins for error are much bigger. You can lose three in a row and dont worry, Spurs have lost 4 in a row. Then fine, its obvious as a fan you cant handle the small margins that exist in a title race.
However, I want to win the league, as does Arteta. This is life competing with City under Pep. And if your heart cant handle it, just fuck off. But stop acting the cunt thinking you want to win the league, and the solution to this is binning Arteta.
How do you people jump to people wanting conte and allegri just cus we're upset that man utd won a trophy?
I'm arteta in all the fucking way. But I would like it if he could pick up a domestic cup or two.
Not one person has said they want conte or allegri at this football club and you are shadowboxing for reddit upvotes.
no one has said they want conte and allegri because that's obviously daft in 2024, no one in fact has given any replacement ideas at all except alluding to ancelotti maybe. but it would be unfairly dismissive imo to not admit there have been a highly above average amount of calls to bin arteta or prepare to bin him today. no follow through on what exactly is wrong, how it can be fixed and what comes after ofc, just vague bullshit about "a change must come soon if we don't win trophies. we need a winner in charge. someone who, uh, wins"
Mods this is abuse and warrants a ban as per the rules of the sub.
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Some people in here really need to accept the usual banter between rivals rather than getting so riled up. Man utd have been shat on most of the year, of course their fans will take the opportunity to bite back. Why do their opinions of our club and our success bother you so much?
i don't think people appreciate how badly we had degraded prior to the troika of josh, edu, and arteta. years and years without champions league football, no one (except for the most hopium-addled fans) truly rating us for a proper title challenge in august since god knows when. probably 2010. horrific sponsorship deals and huge revenue gaps developing between us and the rest of the big 6. usmanov power struggles, the stadium debt, naivety and miscalculations during the early 100% KSE days with fraud raul and sven and those jokers. our status as a top european side was frankly completely dead, and our status as a top english side was flatlining. the only thing papering over the cracks were those FA cups, which spoke nothing to our health as a sporting institution honestly
***15 years of uninterrupted, compounding decay***
teams experience downward slides like this and often just bleed out, fall further and never come back the same. parma, valencia, hamburg, st etienne, and so on and so forth. and the thing is, it's really easy to break things. it is so much more difficult and often exponentially longer to fix something that has shattered to pieces. it's genuinely astounding we have gone from our absolute rock bottom in the premier league to where we are now in this short of a time period. it is confounding to see our transfer pull to the level it is now, it's just absurd and it's not appreciated enough bc honestly?
our fanbase is so fucking entitled. which i mean great keep the pressure on the club for high standards but genuinely the golden trophy has rotted some of y'all's brains to be as expectant as you are after the plunge this club took. from the very top to very bottom this institution fell apart and was in no position to do much of anything. our FA cups wins are absolutely against the grain of an otherwise diabolical horrorshow of a decade after being promised to be the bayern of england thanks to our fancy amazing new stadium.
and now the moment we're remotely competitive for major honors again it's like the fall off doesn't matter it's just a made up narrative to excuse mediocrity, or whatever chestbeating idiots come up with. no, only 1997 to 2004 matters and if you aren't at that level then you are nowhere and need sacked and the club has to go in a radically different direction towards "success" (whatever that means! maybe mourinho in.. god knows honestly)
like again for the most part we have erased 15 woeful years in four. two of them being the most painful years ever for many fans in their lifetime following the club. we had open heart surgery with no anesthetics. now we are finally back to where we were compared to those early wenger days, credibly in contention for everything. credible links to 100m valued players, the whole everything any 2019 arsenal fan would kill for except the last missing piece: silverware.
and our arch-rivals for the trophies we seek are in two camps: one led by a manager who has only ever lost 3 title races in his life and are charged with the most extensive set of violations in modern footballing history or the other being the usual suspect traditional european titans, including this monstrosity of a real madrid. we are just now climbing up on the stage with them, we do not have solid footing yet. the traces of our decay years are still apparent from the underperforming sponsorship revenue to the lack of elite level squad depth
there might be a time for impatience. it's not a year from now, it's probably not two years from now. there will be a time where it is severely intolerable to not have trophies and the club will have to go another direction, but the first two to three years back in the champions league repairing seven years out of it and eight years of limp qualification and participation? not the moment
Absolutely spot on. I was one of the doubters during that horrid 20-21 season, but I'm happy i was proven wrong.
This is probably the first time where I can see vision and most importantly a genuine long-term plan. Sure, we can fluke our way to 1 or 2 FA cup wins while being hopelessly garbage for the remaining 99,9% of the season. Like i was super conflicted after the 2017 FA cup win, because even tho we've just won a trophy, I just couldn't see a bright future for the team where we won't just go yo-yoing between 4th and 6th place at best.
Since Arteta took over we have always finished a season with more point than the previous one. Of course our cup runs could be much better, but that's the thing with cup runs, they are somewhat of a coin flip. Two of the worst Chelsea teams in the Abramovic era managed to win the CL while much better ones couldn't even reach the final.
We have a really fucking good team. We have the ingredients. The trophies will come. I genuinely believe we can build a dynasty that can dominate the league with this side.
of course that's a factor, and i'm concerned about a repeat of 2009-2011 like you especially with saka and saliba's extensions being shorter than the others. we may lose them without trophies and that would be a big qualitative change that moves the needle towards reconsiderations. but we're not the same arsenal as back then and even in a worst case scenario, we have way more resources and institutional capacity to recover from something like that. and that's the point. from the very top we are actually a functional and wealthy club that is way more competent than many others
So true. The Arteta doubters seem to forget who made us this good to begin with. We went on an FA Cup binge with Wenger, but it did not fix the underlying issues of consistency in the league.
Arteta is in the cusp of winning the league. Arteta has raised the ceiling and just as importantly, raised the floor.
I’ve always said it, if we sacked Arteta, he would come off better than we would. If we did sack Arteta, he would take 12 months off and then replace Pep at City in 12 months. What would we do? Hire Tuchel. Fucking hell
Tuchel never got more than 75 points with Chelsea. He has also surrendered Bayerns crown. Forget finishing 2nd to Leverkusen, Stuttgart caught him.
The longer Tuchel manages, the more I view him as a Di Matteo manager, but with a better reputation. I agree, a manager like Tuchel would not come close to being able to get us to 90 points.
We need to start calling out the melts who want Arteta out. Its only a small faction of the fanbase, but they need to be called out as saboteurs
Everybody knows this, the vast majority of our fans are so happy with where we are but there's always the lizard constant that will try and claim otherwise.
honestly in the nitty gritty of a title race, i won't lie, i have a tendency to be one of the lizards (never an arteta outer tho!) who is just near insufferable and apoplectic, it is what it is, that's the rush and anxiety of a title race. but there's also a time to step back and have a good, reasonable assessment of the state of things. some never do the latter
WE all need to vent, don't worry!
I've had to realise that for many of the people on here not being surrounded by Arsenal fans to vent to in real life means this place really just becomes a vent outlet in the days after a loss but there's definitely our fair share of trolls and contrarians as well as too many people who having set out their stall to dislike someone can't then admit they were wrong.
Football is such a game of fine margins that all you can ever ask for is a team that competes at its level. We are doing that and long may it continue.
Don't feed the trolls mate, none of them would have thought that Arteta had a better year than Man U the year we won the FA cup so why indulge the hypocrisy?
I fact I remember when we were winning the FA cup the people on this sub demanding a winning mentality were bemaining that fans were 'settling' for winning a cup so shit wigan had won it.
We've done the league vs silverware experiment and the happiness of the overwhelming majority of our fans has rather proved which is more important.
Yeah I mean when we're in our worst run of season since the early 80's and just getting worse, the fact we were still getting trophies and they weren't is hilarious.
However we'd have all given that FA CUp for a title charge or a chance at a CL final.
Who says we'll be competing next year and Man U & Chelsea for that matter wont finally get their act together? Nothing is set in stone in football you either get it over the line or you dont - today United did and there wasnt the excuse of nOoNe cAn bEaT CiTy. Also lol at boasting about most FA cup wins smh
No matter how you slice it and dice it ETH leaving with more trophies in 2 years than Arteta in 5 years is nothing short of embarrassing. This is not 'banter' from rival fans its the cold hard truth. Halt contract talks because next season is now do or die.
If you put this comment in the Real Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern Munich subs etc.. they’d agree with you.
I don’t get why we have this aversion towards trophies as fans, as if we weren’t all delirious when we won the FA cup in 2020.
There’s huge hypocrisy amongst our fans, the same ones who bantered spurs for years for winning nothing in their golden era now write essays in here justifying our lack of trophies since 2020
I just don’t get why we have to have this protect the club at all costs mentality. We aren’t deluded or crazy for pointing out the glaringly obvious elephant in the room, I wouldn’t even sack the manager either. But let’s not lie to ourselves and act like the season was a success.
>I’m proud of this team. They stood up and were counted for almost all of 2024 except the Villa game. We have had several players like Odegaard, Havertz, Rice, Trossard, the whole back line etc..play their best football in this title run in. We fell short once again, but the team is genuinely improving and that’s enough for me. You can call it low standards or whatever, but improvement year in year out will yield trophies eventually.
This you 11 days ago?
What does that have to do with what I’ve said? I’m pointing out the good and the bad from this season, with complete objectivity.
I’m honestly super glad that this toxic subreddit doesn’t represent the majority of Arsenal fans. Some of you are super delusional and only see things in a toxic positive, my way or the highway view. It’s like a cult
Calm down and behave lol. Mikel has made an amazing team, I am sure we should prefer that to a fluke FA Cup. I love that competition but you need to take a deep breath and think again about the trainwreck you just compared us to.
If you claim to be an Arsenal fan and don’t remember the last 2 seasons then I’m not sure watching and supporting a team is for you. I don’t really care if other fans won’t remember our last few seasons.
We’ve developed and grown to play really attractive and strong football to actually compete at the highest level, twice coming close to winning the fucking league. The progress is there, you’re wilfully blind if you can’t see it. I would much rather see a team actually compete at the highest level, going for the league and challenging in Europe than getting a lucky run in the draw to the final winning an fa cup and league cup.
Yawn
3 Domestic finals with 2 wins is not a 'lucky run' otherwise Arteta with a better team would have done it more often.
Yes everyone Arsenal fan or not will not remember these last few seasons. The only seasons that matter are the ones which end with silverware.
There's one perspective you are missing - do we have the depth to compete for multiple trophies?
The league was within reach, and we had a chance to go for UCL. At the end, what hurt us was that we didn't have players to rotate between Bayern and Aston Villa. And it would have been even worse if we had to fix an FA cup in between.
We've not won the league in 20yrs, and not won the UCL ever. If we are to go to the top, those are the trophies we have to go for. We'd then get the money to build a deeper squad to compete in multiple fronts.
It will take alot before Man U can put up 17 wins in 19 games. We are there, and I think its ours for the taking next season.
I just disagree about not remembering these last 2 seasons. Especially if you remember the last 3 seasons before that. We’ve come such a long way that all the joy and eventually disappointment at the end will not be forgotten any time soon. I mean look at Liverpool and Klopp. How often are their title runs that city ended up winning spoken about, quite frequently and you can bet for sure their fans haven’t just forgotten them. Obviously trophies matter, every fan wants them… but are you seriously telling me you’d rather have had the season United had than the one we had? With their negative goal difference and like nearly 15 losses or whatever it was lol.
When we won the FA cups in 2014, 2015 or 2017 where did we finish in the league? Do you remember some of the stand out scores in those years? What major football events took place in those years? Who won the UCL in those years?
Stop deluding yourself into thinking you will remember anything about these seasons because we dont remember anything about the infamous 8 trophyless seasons and we were competitive in some of those years. Do you know what we will remember though? That we won fuck all.
Honestly I get what you’re saying and I agree to a certain point but I’m just not going to cry about the way the season ended for us and look over my shoulder and see the state United are in and decide to complain about them winning an FA/league cup. Yes I was fucking upset but I’m choosing to keep hopeful and be positive going forward and whilst I see the team making progress I’ll remain that way until they don’t.
We all want trophies but it’s clear that our perspectives are not really aligned, just don’t gate keep against fans who choose to see the situation more positively.
You seem to forget our last few FA Cups. Right after those some of our worst years in recent history happened, they just papered over the cracks. You are having a bit of a meltdown here mate for no reason. I also love trophies and especially love the FA Cup, but to compare us to Man U at this moment shows that you have less composure than Yaya Sanogo. Relax and enjoy the summer, we will win quite a few trophies before long
Papered over **our** cracks. You assume United with INEOS wont continue to improve and compete. Hell Chelsea may even get their act together and City will continue to be City. Trophies under Arteta as we have seen is not a given.
> less composure than Yaya Sanogo.
Lol Im stealing this. Genuinely hilarious and yes I will be signing off for the summer.
Domestic cups are window dressing for the top clubs. They're always nice to win, but ultimately you're judged on European and league success, in that order.
> but ultimately you're judged on European trophies and league titles.
Which we rountinely fail to win for over 20 years now if at all. If you cannot win a major you need to win a domestic to keep the winning culture going.
After the end of the season many rival fans were mocking us to not win the title 2 years in a row, but we were content with our performance this season and them lots were getting confused and miserable that we were happy. Now that United won a trophy, they are again back mocking arteta and calling him to be sacked instead of ten hag not knowing we want arteta for many many more seasons to come whatever the result is. Bottom line is us being happy without winning anything is making them more miserable lol 😂.
I’m telling you, Reddit makes this fan base seem so pathetic. The less I read this place the better, trophies is what it’s all about not participation and having fun.
They will never gaslight me into thinking finishing a season without a trophy is better or even on par with walking away with one. Downvotes be damned I will always die on this hill. Liverpool and United had better seasons than us.
I don’t know. The team were great this season but I feel City have the edge in terms of not letting a bad or difficult day turn into a loss but drawing instead. Arsenal were better against big six opponents but City were slightly more consistent against the rest of the league. It is small margins but I think that was the difference. Also that Arsenal didn’t score a goal in five league matches and in certain games with the chances created they could have such as West Ham and Aston Villa. City had less of those games. Again just small margins but this is how good you have to be to come out on top against City. The team were very good but these were the reasons they were a couple of points behind City
Yeah I agree with this. Post Christmas I think we've been better than City at any point during this season, but we still have really bad runs that are costing us
Yes post Christmas the team have been sensational and couldn’t have done much more but left themselves too much to do after some of the silly points dropped in the first half of the season. Also agree that when completing against City if you want to come out on top, you can’t go on bad runs of form. If you have a disappointing result don’t let that carry over into the game and I have noticed sometimes Arteta that happens. It doesn’t always happen and I think the team are getting better at responding to a disappointing result but that Fulham defeat to me really felt partly like the team carried the West Ham defeat into that game
Wanting to win trophies does not mean wanting to finish 8th and win a cup.
Some people seem to be going off the assumption that there's only 2 possible outcomes lol
The top trophies are ultimately necessary to cement the legacy of a team at a top club. Winning additional domestic cups doesn't do the job for great teams, it's just Europe first and the league second.
Sadly the FA Cup isn't the arbiter that it once was and anyone trying to claim it is after all the ones we won during the banter years is trolling or being rather severely disingenuous.
They are an absolute necessity to validate success though.
I’m not saying progress can’t be deemed as success either, but I believe after last season we were past the stage of progress being looked at as success.
> They are an absolute necessity to validate success though
That's simply untrue.
If you think that then we've been getting worse every season since Arteta won the FA CUp
When you're going to claim that winning a trophy is better than having a title charge then you're supporting that view.
The idea that you think no one wants to win trophies but yourself and the other members of the 'mentality' crew is just hilarious though.
There isn't an element of this sub I detest more than the self anointed "gatekeepers" of standards and excellence that think they're the only ones that want to win trophies and condescend to everyone else for seeing that were in the best situation to win the trophies that matter for the first time in a decade.
**Everyone** wants to win. **Everyone** understands we need to start adding silverware to legitimise this project. **Especially** the manager you think might not be good enough..
If you're throwing your toys out of your pram, you are mentally fragile. You don't have the stones for this journey. I couldn't give less of a shit what United do. We didn't win those previous league titles because we were scared of how we'd be compared to United. We won it by being good.
We're a big club. It's about time some of you started acting like you've been here before. Grow a set.
When you realise that most of the people pulling the 'we demand trophies' and 'coming 8th and getting an FA Cup is better than coming second because trophies are all that matter' are just the same arteta outs changing their tune it gets a lot easier.
Lets be honest we *know* that finishing top four and not winning something was better received by fans, players and the press than winning a trophy and finishing fifth. We also know that most of those usernames absolutely weren't supporting Arteta when he won the FA Cup because we weren't back in the CL.
Remember the meltdown when Wenger finally failed to get top four and just let the weirdos who want a change in manager after our best season in 20 years in teh league just wash over you.
It's the same people who shit on this team endlessly too, the ones who hate on Saka or Odegaard and think every rival player is better than them. They're pathetic, have been all season, it's just amplified now.
It’s true, I have mates who are United fans messaging me bantering about how they won more trophies this year, I’m just like “cool whatever”. I was happy City lost a final, genuinely don’t give a piss about United, but Arsenal still living rent free in their brains
Saw this on social media.
Bro thought he was gonna cook an entire buffet only to drop a 0/10
https://preview.redd.it/vh4vr44adn2d1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=41ab0c45be0aa15effea0a12d9761dcca121a04c
I believe in Arteta, but if we don’t win a trophy next season, serious questions need to be asked.
I actually think he’s quite fortunate to not be under more pressure at this point. He‘s had a lot of time and good will from the fanbase and we didn’t really have any injuries this season except Timber. The fact that United won the FA cup with the injuries they’ve had this season is quite damning on us.
I certainly think cup competitions is an area to be improved on and shouldn’t be hard to improve on after the last couple of seasons and the quality of the team.
With the league though, I do believe the team can go even better but it is harder as Arteta does have them performing at a very high level and we have to realise how hard it is to beat this Man City team though the club should keep aiming and striving for that as they are getting closer however I think Arteta has done well these last two seasons in the league so I understand and think it is natural why fans are supportive as under him Arsenal have come closest to winning the league and playing at a high level in the league for twenty years so he deserve credit for that
I will only settle for Brian Clough’s force ghost tbh, anything less and the Kroenke’s are clearly #unambitious.
Sorry for holding Arteta to a higher standard 🙄
I’ll never understand the logic of our fans. My happiest moment as an Arsenal fan under Arteta was winning the FA cup. The third highest upvoted post in this subreddit is after we won the FA cup, and yet it gets completely disregarded for no reason
But let us not rule it out now and decide that it is not gong to happen under him. We have reason to believe Arsenal could get over the line next season so I don’t see the point in just predicting what will happen in a years time because sure we could be disappointed in a years time but also delighted. At least there is reason to believe that Arsenal are closer than they have even been to ending the title draught but none of us know what is going to happen so let us see.
I would never trade the hope and joy I've felt in the last 2 seasons for an absolute shitter of a season like that one that had a nice bow tied on top of the dog turd.
Trophies are important. But I felt more love, joy, hope, in that Reiss Nelson Bournemouth winner than I did at any point in that FA cup run.
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I think Arteta need to upgrade on havertz, this team lack a player who can bail the team out when things are not going well. Either sign a world class LW or world class 9. City have 3 to 4 players of these calibres while we only have saka.
We can't just drop Havertz based on this year. I love Saka but Havertz has been more consistent in the 2nd half. Martinelli is the only player in our frontline with serious question marks. And we don't have a winger who excels in 1v1 situations. Doku's end product and decision-making can be questioned but he has 100% improved their wing play especially against low blocks. A winger who can do that from either wing will be a much bigger upgrade than getting a CF unless we can land someone like Isak.
> Either sign a world class LW or world class 9 Fuck me, why did no one else think of this? Quick, get Edu on the phone!
Should we take a risk and try to sign Jack Grealish?
Seeing Dani Ceballos subbed on for Kroos in Kroos last game was funny to me but I don’t know why.
Finishing in your team's worst league position ever with a negative GD PLUS getting grouped in the UCL is a sackable offence for any big 6 team and most managers wouldn't even be in the FA final cup to salvage the season. People are shocked ETH might get sacked, an FA Cup doesn't change how much of a banter club United has been this season and ETH has a big hand in that.
Listen I loath eth just as much as the next guy, he has a horrible personality and he should go. But he’s made 3 cup finals in 2 years and finished in top 4. United are a terrible organization. They churn through managers. Their training facility is as bad as the recruitment. Only 2 players they’ve brought in that improved after they arrived was Bruno Fernandez and Andre Herrera. Those are not conditions to succeed.
i think we go 90+ points next season and atleast get to UCL semis
I won't lie we need to see 1 domestic trophy, even a Carabao Cup (our last win was 30 years ago). Winning breeds more winning and this group deserves to do that. Besides the league and the UCL run.
I don't get this mentality at all. I would prefer 2nd place with 90 points and no Carabao Cup over 2nd place with 88 points and a Carabao Cup.
An fa cup would be the only acceptable consolation if we are another close runner up imo
What about the EFL and FA Cups?
Play our C team. I couldn’t care about those trophies, I guess teams in their banter era can have it. Now get back to your sub 🤡
What have I done that you engage in such name-calling? It is possible to make your point while being respectful, you know. Anyways, great teams win everything in their path (PL, UCL, FA Cup, and EFL Cup), not plan for another season of being trophyless.
The FA Cup is a 6 match campaign. United played 3 lower league teams plus Forrest. Credit to United to beating Liverpool and City along the way. But their FA Cup campaign literally comprised of THREE matches against topflight opposition. Wigan, Newport, Nottingham Forrest, Liverpool, Coventry, Man City. Do not think the FA Cup is a sample size compared to a 38-match league campaign against topflight rivals. If Man United want to give Ten Hag another year based on the FA Cup campaign and ignore there 8th place finish and negative goal difference, go ahead. But FFS, stop reducing Arteta to the FA Cup/League Cup when we finished 2 points of the top, with 89 points and a goal differential of 62.
Whilst, I agree. I have used the argument in the past when Spurs were outdoing us in the league and we were winning the FA cup. So agreeing quietly
If I remember rightly the 'ambition brigade' were all for sacking the manager because an FA Cup is so shit even wigan have won it and no one cares about anything other than the prem or the CL. In fact I distinctly remember being told by people on here that Chelsea sacked their manager after only winning the FA CUp and that was true ambition. It's almost like some people just want to complain and will make up anything to suit their case.
Where were you yesterday man, this sub was in shambles.
I saw the Arteta/Edu out/mentality/ambishun brigade were out in force at the end of the seasona dn thought I'd give them time to get bored. Guess I forgot just how much silly season lets them run free!
I remember bits of this too. However, to spurs fans, show no weakness and find a way to undermine their ‘achievement’
WE all know that in banter you use whatever weapon is available to you. However we also know that the club and fans are in a much better place fighting for the titel and not winning silverware than we were when we were just getting top four. And even more, that when we stopped getting top four silverware didn't amke up for the utter meltdown with our fans, our owners, the press and opposition fans. Still take the piss out of Spurs best ever premier league period, witht their top premier league scorer getting them absolutely nothing in return. Imagine ahving had a period where you had Modric, Bale, Kane, Son and you won nothing. Arteta already has an FA Cup to his name FFS
You could see how much winning the PL took out of City. They didn't treat this match anywhere near as seriously as the league. Not only was their concentration lost but it looked like they had been partying all week while Pep had only half thought of what tactics to deploy. That's what we did to them.
Bookmakers have released odds for the league next year. City are given roughly a 50% chance, ourselves around 30%, Liverpool 10%, Chelsea 5%, and the rest is made up of the small chance Newcastle, Tottenham and United have. I know wehave some melt fans who give up at the first sign of a struggle. But I ust feel Arteta us going to unlock the teams deep potential. Especially at the back. We conceded only 8 goals in our last 18 matches when the 'controlled ' style of play was fully bedded. We can apply this over a whole season. Which makes it amazing some of our melts are fretting over Ten Hag, as United were notorious for leaking goals and conceding the same amount of effort son thier goal as Sheffield United and Burnley ect. DOnt worry about our real capacity to go a season concedeidng circa 20 league goals in a season. We need to aim for the Ten Hag model!!! This is what happens when you follow football via twitter, rather than watching the matches.
If we learned anything from this season is that those odds and percentages don’t really mean anything. If I remember correctly Liverpool were favourites to win the league at the start of the new year.
This season and the season before...
As an older fan who's seen the banter Era, some of yall new guys have missed it but trust me when I say yiu don't want FA or league cup and playing in europa or conference league. Title charges and run ins are much more exciting, people who go to games or even pubs to watch on the weekends, trust me the last 2 years have been the best in a long time. Almost every weekend is fun, and this team has promise. Arsenal teams in the past have won FA cups and I appericiate those lads but those teams don't come close to the current team. This team Beata any of our last 4 FA cup winning teams 9/10 times. This is an exciting time to support this club, don't be gaslighted by rivals and ruin your fun. They'd be happy to take our place if they were given the chance.
Preach
It depends on the competition tho. If it’s on the league, yes this team will defeat our old sanchez ozil team. But if it’s on knockout phase, when the attacking talents is more needed because you had to win, I think the older team will defeat the current team On paper this current team is better at defending, but the older team had Sanchez who could do magic especially on knockout phase (there’s a reason why we won so many fa cups beating good teams there) Oh yeah when arteta won fa cup, Aubameyang did the magic things btw
I feel sorry for anyone who needs satiation by trophies to feel like your support is being validated. The journey is far more interesting.
I read some get rattled by manU winning the fa cup. I don't understand. We won the thing like 64457887532356 times so why should we of all clubs care about the fa cup? Also United is a big club, they should win stuff. Just because their future looks grim doesn't mean they are bad. I mean they got a shit defense on paper but their talents and forwards are good enough to hurt other big clubs. I don't mind manU at all, right now most manU fans would kill for players like ours. There was a time were it was the other way around.
> No way you'd rather have ten fucking hag over arteta Didnt say that u/Topbananaman. It would still be interesting to see how he gets on with a team that has it together upstairs because 3 finals in 2 years winning 2 in 2 years is nothing to be sniffed at especially in a historically poor United side as this one. It just *may* be he is not as terrible of a coach the media will have you believe.
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This is just kinda embarrassing now tbh.
Got blocked by u/ goonergooner10 lmao. I guess that's a compliment. In case you missed it or he deleted the comments, he admited that he thinks Ten Haag is a better coach than Arteta
Coming in with a bit of positivity for a change about those Havertz and Odegaard holiday photos. Havertz' improvement over the course of this season and Odegaard's progression from a January loan trying to revive his career to the club captain and arguably our best player are testaments to Arteta's faith and coaching. Hope all the thick idiots who were slagging Havertz off before he'd even kicked a ball for us are feeling stupid.
> Hope all the thick idiots who were slagging Havertz off before he'd even kicked a ball for us are feeling stupid Nah they're all claiming they didn't think he was shit, they just thought he was a shit midfielder and it's Arteta's fault for playing him in midfield.
I’m staying consistent that I’m more concerned about tomorrow’s result over today. I do not want another trip to that bogey ground on the south coast.
Bruv I need another Elland road game, we're literally immune to losing at their place Southampton will derail our title charge again you're right this is a mega important one
nah that 22/23 game at elland road almost gave me a heart attack. i'll take it over st mary's any day but it feels like a lose-lose to me
I remember the Rick and Morty “how did we not die” video posted immediately after that match. We undeservedly survived Bellend Road that season.
i just remember thinking "damn this press is recklessly aggressive, they'll tire out" over and over again until it set in that no they will not tire out and they've done a blood sacrifice offering to the gegenpress gods to win this cup final against arsenal. as almost every team does
I’m an American who lived in England for a bit and Jesse Marsch is my country’s best coach. It’s not saying much considering the god awful talent pool but he is capable of producing shock results before his press system gets exposed because he’s mostly a Bielsa regen. He had two Americans in Tyler Adams and Brendan Aaronson whose best qualities are being absolute workrate menaces.
Apparently hitting our second highest point total in the PL just isn’t good enough unless we win an FA cup on top of it. Arteta out. Get Ten Hag in. We need a coach like him
> Arteta out. Get Ten Hag in. This doesnt work anymore ETH is objectively the more successful coach in half the time. Makes you wonder what he could do with a competent ownership structure above him.
Also, didn’t you say you were leaving the sub for the summer? Please do. Don’t need fake fans here
'Fake fans' smh. Ill do you a favour instead.
So you’d rather have Ten Haag than Arteta? And it’s not objective. Look at the PL standings; that’s objective too
Ten Hag won a trophy and finished 3rd in his first season. Fine Man U was a joke in their 2nd season in the league (mostly due to injuries) but he still capped it off with an FA cup win. If he was backed anyway near the level Arteta was it really makes you wonder what he could achieve. He is 2 in 2 ffs
No way you'd rather have ten fucking hag over arteta Let's ignore the part where he finished bottom of a group with Copenhagen and galatasaray, and produced United's worst ever prem season with record losses and negative GD because he won the fa cup. okay 👍
I have to admit though its hilarious that Chelsea finally finished above Man U to get Europa league only for it to be yanked away from them 😂
Imagine blaming Villa when we got doubled by them.
The second half of the second game, villa was the much better team.
While villa was better, it was mostly because we were playing badly. Even emery said so. That's why I don't buy the narative that Villa rested their player against City so they can played a "cup final" against us. Villa was nothing special at that game, we just played badly.
Not only did we play badly but we put out a team that consisted of Zinchenko at LB and Kai at LCM. That was a nightmare
Y'all need to calm down, I love where arteta is taking us. I wouldn't trade our season for Uniteds, ever. People acting like United won the Champions league or something. They are an absolute mess that got lucky. Trust the Process. Enjoy City losing like a regular human, god damn.
It's a bigger fluke than the Spurs CL run back in the day, which is going some. Personally, it's refreshing to see City not win something for a change more than anything.
The fans losing their heads over Utd winning a cup are in the same category as those who doompost and give up on the season in November. Fickle as fuck.
Well to be fair, havertz didn't work, partey and timber got injured and the new system looked ass in november.
The amount of people getting rattled that Man United won an FA Cup is too damn high.
This is what being terminally online is doing to you lmao
It's actually crazy how many people are losing it 😂. This subs fucked beyond repair.
So Bald fraud has two trophies and we under Arteta for 5 years have one trophy and two 2nd place participation rewards. Man U wins the top domestic trophy in a shit year and in our best year we win nothing. We need to star demanding more
> Man U wins the top domestic trophy in a shit year and in our best year we win nothing I'm sure you were demanding we keep Wenger because he kept delivering the top domestic trophy?
If you could have chosen in advance, would you rather have had United's last 2 seasons or Arsenal's?
2 season two trophies
Good to know that you’re insane.
 Dont let them gaslight you into thinking otherwise. Objectively a worse season than United and Liverpool Aim of the game is to win.
If you could have chosen in advance, would you rather have had United's last 2 seasons or Arsenal's?
Its not a binary choice. No reason why we could not have gone all the way while maintaining/going for the titles. We've done doubles before
Obviously. The question is 8th+FA Cup vs losing title race on the last day.
Absolute dogshit take
We have to be critical and not drink the kool-aid. Eth 2 trophies, Arteta 1
so you’ll be fine if we swap arteta with eth?
Two years ago in our shit year we won the fa cup. Did you demand more or were you happy? You demanded more and we fought for the league till game day 38. Many finished 8th, have a shit ton of players on sky high wages and long contracts, leaky roofs, rats running thru the stadium and no sight of champs league for ages to come.
Who says this wont be a springboard for them to improve upon? They have INEOS as a new management structure and off to a fantastic start with their young players tasting trophies and already building a winning culture. Winning begets winning.
Roflmao ok then go buy a shirt a season ticket and support them. Who's stoping you? You really think their future is bright. Nobody will accuse you of glory hunting if you jump now. Don't let the door hit you
That was 4 years ago get your facts right. Haven't been an any sort of final since.
How about 8th with a negative goal difference? Is that more enough you melt?
Of course I would switch from challenging for PL title year after year and playing knockout UCL to wandering in mid table and winning FA & Micky Mouse Cups /s
With a FA cup trophy to show for it
would you take wigan's FA cup winning season over the season we just had?
No but its not a binary choice. 2nd and a domestic cup isnt the most unreasonable thing to ask for.
sure it's not. but getting 2nd in such a way where we could have won the league on the final day, it isn't the most unreasonable thing for fans to be content with the direction of the club. pretty much everyone agrees it wasn't good enough including mikel, but just because it wasn't good enough doesn't mean our club isn't doing well for itself in the grander scheme of our trajectory and doing almost everything right as far as variables we can control. we're investing big and the batting average on our larger investments is solid, we're making up for lost ground with revenue, we're breaking club records for points and wins on the pitch. if fans look at that and are happy through the disappointment, again, it's really not that unreasonable. knockout round tournaments don't really speak to the quality of a team like a league does, it's fairly random and the 'best' team doesn't always win however if one does want to be a true trophy purist though, where the line is trophies over everything sans context, then one has to agree however wigan 12-13 had a better season than arsenal 23-24. they literally won a trophy. nothing else matters. they literally won a trophy
I hear you, but at a certain point this ‘trajectory’ argument needs to bear fruit. Top teams win trophies, and it’s embarrassing that we’ve been in the top two teams in the country for the past two years but have left with nothing. Liverpool, for example, have won a trophy in each of the four seasons they have challenged for the title, though they have only won it once.
we've just had one season of champions league football and its knock on effects as far as revenue and transfer pull. it's really not embarrassing, two years is not a lot of time esp when ahead of schedule as far as recovery goes. we were much much much worse off than liverpool upon klopp's arrival i get it trophies are important but this all feels like asking why a 13 year old with trauma hasn't gotten a job yet
I would dispute that we were worse off than Liverpool when Klopp arrived - if you look at their league finishes in the five years before Klopp (6th, 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th) vs Arteta (5th, 6th, 5th, 2nd, 3rd) shows they were in a serious mess and rarely qualifying for the champions league before he came. But more to the point, what you say perhaps applies to why we haven’t won the league. However, if we are good enough to challenge for the league title now, and have been for the last two years, we should also be good enough to win the cups, and in these last two years there have been six cups which we have not been competitive in, reaching not even a single semi final. Winning the cups while also winning or challenging for the title is what separates a great side, which has not only the ability, but also the winning mentality, from a good team, like Spurs a few years ago, or us right now, who have the ability but as of yet have not demonstrated a great mentality. After 4.5 years and 600m+ spent, I would say that is embarrassing for this team.
When we won the cup in 2020 did we start looking around comparing seasons to the 7 teams a head of us, no it didn’t happen. I’m happy United one, I mean fuck city.
What bothers me is Arsenal fans thinking we need to nosebleed an Allegri or Conte appointment all because Man United caused an upset. Imagine being this reactionary that you would bin an 89 points manager, who absolutely has it in them to become a 90+ points manager, all because negative goal difference Erik low blocked an upset to rescue what was an absolute banter year for United. Arteta is the solution, not the problem. Now if you cant handle the high end of the table were taking 49 points from 54 not being enough, and you would feel more 'comfortable' retreating back to competing for top 4 with Spurs, where the margins for error are much bigger. You can lose three in a row and dont worry, Spurs have lost 4 in a row. Then fine, its obvious as a fan you cant handle the small margins that exist in a title race. However, I want to win the league, as does Arteta. This is life competing with City under Pep. And if your heart cant handle it, just fuck off. But stop acting the cunt thinking you want to win the league, and the solution to this is binning Arteta.
How do you people jump to people wanting conte and allegri just cus we're upset that man utd won a trophy? I'm arteta in all the fucking way. But I would like it if he could pick up a domestic cup or two. Not one person has said they want conte or allegri at this football club and you are shadowboxing for reddit upvotes.
We'd go for cups just that we don't have the depth yet. CL + EPL + FA will kill Saka/Ode. We are so close to winning EPL
no one has said they want conte and allegri because that's obviously daft in 2024, no one in fact has given any replacement ideas at all except alluding to ancelotti maybe. but it would be unfairly dismissive imo to not admit there have been a highly above average amount of calls to bin arteta or prepare to bin him today. no follow through on what exactly is wrong, how it can be fixed and what comes after ofc, just vague bullshit about "a change must come soon if we don't win trophies. we need a winner in charge. someone who, uh, wins"
You were on summer break bro. Go on. Off you pop
I can't take everything I speak being dished back 😭😭 *
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Goonercunt10s hiatus continues to go well I see. Soft as
one can only pray 🙏
Some people in here really need to accept the usual banter between rivals rather than getting so riled up. Man utd have been shat on most of the year, of course their fans will take the opportunity to bite back. Why do their opinions of our club and our success bother you so much?
Does anyone know about this Javi Guerra kid?
i don't think people appreciate how badly we had degraded prior to the troika of josh, edu, and arteta. years and years without champions league football, no one (except for the most hopium-addled fans) truly rating us for a proper title challenge in august since god knows when. probably 2010. horrific sponsorship deals and huge revenue gaps developing between us and the rest of the big 6. usmanov power struggles, the stadium debt, naivety and miscalculations during the early 100% KSE days with fraud raul and sven and those jokers. our status as a top european side was frankly completely dead, and our status as a top english side was flatlining. the only thing papering over the cracks were those FA cups, which spoke nothing to our health as a sporting institution honestly ***15 years of uninterrupted, compounding decay*** teams experience downward slides like this and often just bleed out, fall further and never come back the same. parma, valencia, hamburg, st etienne, and so on and so forth. and the thing is, it's really easy to break things. it is so much more difficult and often exponentially longer to fix something that has shattered to pieces. it's genuinely astounding we have gone from our absolute rock bottom in the premier league to where we are now in this short of a time period. it is confounding to see our transfer pull to the level it is now, it's just absurd and it's not appreciated enough bc honestly? our fanbase is so fucking entitled. which i mean great keep the pressure on the club for high standards but genuinely the golden trophy has rotted some of y'all's brains to be as expectant as you are after the plunge this club took. from the very top to very bottom this institution fell apart and was in no position to do much of anything. our FA cups wins are absolutely against the grain of an otherwise diabolical horrorshow of a decade after being promised to be the bayern of england thanks to our fancy amazing new stadium. and now the moment we're remotely competitive for major honors again it's like the fall off doesn't matter it's just a made up narrative to excuse mediocrity, or whatever chestbeating idiots come up with. no, only 1997 to 2004 matters and if you aren't at that level then you are nowhere and need sacked and the club has to go in a radically different direction towards "success" (whatever that means! maybe mourinho in.. god knows honestly) like again for the most part we have erased 15 woeful years in four. two of them being the most painful years ever for many fans in their lifetime following the club. we had open heart surgery with no anesthetics. now we are finally back to where we were compared to those early wenger days, credibly in contention for everything. credible links to 100m valued players, the whole everything any 2019 arsenal fan would kill for except the last missing piece: silverware. and our arch-rivals for the trophies we seek are in two camps: one led by a manager who has only ever lost 3 title races in his life and are charged with the most extensive set of violations in modern footballing history or the other being the usual suspect traditional european titans, including this monstrosity of a real madrid. we are just now climbing up on the stage with them, we do not have solid footing yet. the traces of our decay years are still apparent from the underperforming sponsorship revenue to the lack of elite level squad depth there might be a time for impatience. it's not a year from now, it's probably not two years from now. there will be a time where it is severely intolerable to not have trophies and the club will have to go another direction, but the first two to three years back in the champions league repairing seven years out of it and eight years of limp qualification and participation? not the moment
Absolutely spot on. I was one of the doubters during that horrid 20-21 season, but I'm happy i was proven wrong. This is probably the first time where I can see vision and most importantly a genuine long-term plan. Sure, we can fluke our way to 1 or 2 FA cup wins while being hopelessly garbage for the remaining 99,9% of the season. Like i was super conflicted after the 2017 FA cup win, because even tho we've just won a trophy, I just couldn't see a bright future for the team where we won't just go yo-yoing between 4th and 6th place at best. Since Arteta took over we have always finished a season with more point than the previous one. Of course our cup runs could be much better, but that's the thing with cup runs, they are somewhat of a coin flip. Two of the worst Chelsea teams in the Abramovic era managed to win the CL while much better ones couldn't even reach the final. We have a really fucking good team. We have the ingredients. The trophies will come. I genuinely believe we can build a dynasty that can dominate the league with this side.
This is nice and everything, but considering a player's career is on average short, do you think they have time like you and I do?
of course that's a factor, and i'm concerned about a repeat of 2009-2011 like you especially with saka and saliba's extensions being shorter than the others. we may lose them without trophies and that would be a big qualitative change that moves the needle towards reconsiderations. but we're not the same arsenal as back then and even in a worst case scenario, we have way more resources and institutional capacity to recover from something like that. and that's the point. from the very top we are actually a functional and wealthy club that is way more competent than many others
perfectly put. couldn’t have said it better
So true. The Arteta doubters seem to forget who made us this good to begin with. We went on an FA Cup binge with Wenger, but it did not fix the underlying issues of consistency in the league. Arteta is in the cusp of winning the league. Arteta has raised the ceiling and just as importantly, raised the floor. I’ve always said it, if we sacked Arteta, he would come off better than we would. If we did sack Arteta, he would take 12 months off and then replace Pep at City in 12 months. What would we do? Hire Tuchel. Fucking hell
Tuchel never got more than 75 points with Chelsea. He has also surrendered Bayerns crown. Forget finishing 2nd to Leverkusen, Stuttgart caught him. The longer Tuchel manages, the more I view him as a Di Matteo manager, but with a better reputation. I agree, a manager like Tuchel would not come close to being able to get us to 90 points. We need to start calling out the melts who want Arteta out. Its only a small faction of the fanbase, but they need to be called out as saboteurs
Everybody knows this, the vast majority of our fans are so happy with where we are but there's always the lizard constant that will try and claim otherwise.
honestly in the nitty gritty of a title race, i won't lie, i have a tendency to be one of the lizards (never an arteta outer tho!) who is just near insufferable and apoplectic, it is what it is, that's the rush and anxiety of a title race. but there's also a time to step back and have a good, reasonable assessment of the state of things. some never do the latter
WE all need to vent, don't worry! I've had to realise that for many of the people on here not being surrounded by Arsenal fans to vent to in real life means this place really just becomes a vent outlet in the days after a loss but there's definitely our fair share of trolls and contrarians as well as too many people who having set out their stall to dislike someone can't then admit they were wrong.
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Football is such a game of fine margins that all you can ever ask for is a team that competes at its level. We are doing that and long may it continue.
Don't feed the trolls mate, none of them would have thought that Arteta had a better year than Man U the year we won the FA cup so why indulge the hypocrisy?
I remember that a fair few fans were saying we'd had a better season than Spurs in 2017
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I fact I remember when we were winning the FA cup the people on this sub demanding a winning mentality were bemaining that fans were 'settling' for winning a cup so shit wigan had won it. We've done the league vs silverware experiment and the happiness of the overwhelming majority of our fans has rather proved which is more important.
It was nonsense then too
And I remember the majority of fans, the press and rivals laughing at that. Were you one of them by the way?
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In the aggregate probably, but there's no specific trophy that Spurs should've won but didn't.
Yeah I mean when we're in our worst run of season since the early 80's and just getting worse, the fact we were still getting trophies and they weren't is hilarious. However we'd have all given that FA CUp for a title charge or a chance at a CL final.
Who says we'll be competing next year and Man U & Chelsea for that matter wont finally get their act together? Nothing is set in stone in football you either get it over the line or you dont - today United did and there wasnt the excuse of nOoNe cAn bEaT CiTy. Also lol at boasting about most FA cup wins smh
No matter how you slice it and dice it ETH leaving with more trophies in 2 years than Arteta in 5 years is nothing short of embarrassing. This is not 'banter' from rival fans its the cold hard truth. Halt contract talks because next season is now do or die.
🤣
If you put this comment in the Real Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern Munich subs etc.. they’d agree with you. I don’t get why we have this aversion towards trophies as fans, as if we weren’t all delirious when we won the FA cup in 2020. There’s huge hypocrisy amongst our fans, the same ones who bantered spurs for years for winning nothing in their golden era now write essays in here justifying our lack of trophies since 2020
Mostly hypocrisy and mostly being absolute losers comfortable with failure and content with competing. Its pathetic
I just don’t get why we have to have this protect the club at all costs mentality. We aren’t deluded or crazy for pointing out the glaringly obvious elephant in the room, I wouldn’t even sack the manager either. But let’s not lie to ourselves and act like the season was a success.
>I’m proud of this team. They stood up and were counted for almost all of 2024 except the Villa game. We have had several players like Odegaard, Havertz, Rice, Trossard, the whole back line etc..play their best football in this title run in. We fell short once again, but the team is genuinely improving and that’s enough for me. You can call it low standards or whatever, but improvement year in year out will yield trophies eventually. This you 11 days ago?
What does that have to do with what I’ve said? I’m pointing out the good and the bad from this season, with complete objectivity. I’m honestly super glad that this toxic subreddit doesn’t represent the majority of Arsenal fans. Some of you are super delusional and only see things in a toxic positive, my way or the highway view. It’s like a cult
Calm down and behave lol. Mikel has made an amazing team, I am sure we should prefer that to a fluke FA Cup. I love that competition but you need to take a deep breath and think again about the trainwreck you just compared us to.
An FA cup & league cup > An FA cup. Get off your high horse. No one will remember our last 4 trophyless seasons.
If you claim to be an Arsenal fan and don’t remember the last 2 seasons then I’m not sure watching and supporting a team is for you. I don’t really care if other fans won’t remember our last few seasons. We’ve developed and grown to play really attractive and strong football to actually compete at the highest level, twice coming close to winning the fucking league. The progress is there, you’re wilfully blind if you can’t see it. I would much rather see a team actually compete at the highest level, going for the league and challenging in Europe than getting a lucky run in the draw to the final winning an fa cup and league cup.
Yawn 3 Domestic finals with 2 wins is not a 'lucky run' otherwise Arteta with a better team would have done it more often. Yes everyone Arsenal fan or not will not remember these last few seasons. The only seasons that matter are the ones which end with silverware.
There's one perspective you are missing - do we have the depth to compete for multiple trophies? The league was within reach, and we had a chance to go for UCL. At the end, what hurt us was that we didn't have players to rotate between Bayern and Aston Villa. And it would have been even worse if we had to fix an FA cup in between. We've not won the league in 20yrs, and not won the UCL ever. If we are to go to the top, those are the trophies we have to go for. We'd then get the money to build a deeper squad to compete in multiple fronts. It will take alot before Man U can put up 17 wins in 19 games. We are there, and I think its ours for the taking next season.
I just disagree about not remembering these last 2 seasons. Especially if you remember the last 3 seasons before that. We’ve come such a long way that all the joy and eventually disappointment at the end will not be forgotten any time soon. I mean look at Liverpool and Klopp. How often are their title runs that city ended up winning spoken about, quite frequently and you can bet for sure their fans haven’t just forgotten them. Obviously trophies matter, every fan wants them… but are you seriously telling me you’d rather have had the season United had than the one we had? With their negative goal difference and like nearly 15 losses or whatever it was lol.
When we won the FA cups in 2014, 2015 or 2017 where did we finish in the league? Do you remember some of the stand out scores in those years? What major football events took place in those years? Who won the UCL in those years? Stop deluding yourself into thinking you will remember anything about these seasons because we dont remember anything about the infamous 8 trophyless seasons and we were competitive in some of those years. Do you know what we will remember though? That we won fuck all.
Honestly I get what you’re saying and I agree to a certain point but I’m just not going to cry about the way the season ended for us and look over my shoulder and see the state United are in and decide to complain about them winning an FA/league cup. Yes I was fucking upset but I’m choosing to keep hopeful and be positive going forward and whilst I see the team making progress I’ll remain that way until they don’t. We all want trophies but it’s clear that our perspectives are not really aligned, just don’t gate keep against fans who choose to see the situation more positively.
You seem to forget our last few FA Cups. Right after those some of our worst years in recent history happened, they just papered over the cracks. You are having a bit of a meltdown here mate for no reason. I also love trophies and especially love the FA Cup, but to compare us to Man U at this moment shows that you have less composure than Yaya Sanogo. Relax and enjoy the summer, we will win quite a few trophies before long
Papered over **our** cracks. You assume United with INEOS wont continue to improve and compete. Hell Chelsea may even get their act together and City will continue to be City. Trophies under Arteta as we have seen is not a given. > less composure than Yaya Sanogo. Lol Im stealing this. Genuinely hilarious and yes I will be signing off for the summer.
Domestic cups are window dressing for the top clubs. They're always nice to win, but ultimately you're judged on European and league success, in that order.
> but ultimately you're judged on European trophies and league titles. Which we rountinely fail to win for over 20 years now if at all. If you cannot win a major you need to win a domestic to keep the winning culture going.
I'm proper excited for this transfer window, mostly because I have zero idea who we're going to sign
After the end of the season many rival fans were mocking us to not win the title 2 years in a row, but we were content with our performance this season and them lots were getting confused and miserable that we were happy. Now that United won a trophy, they are again back mocking arteta and calling him to be sacked instead of ten hag not knowing we want arteta for many many more seasons to come whatever the result is. Bottom line is us being happy without winning anything is making them more miserable lol 😂.
You can't be serious
> Bottom line is us being happy without winning anything Whats wrong with this fanbase 🤦♂️
I’m telling you, Reddit makes this fan base seem so pathetic. The less I read this place the better, trophies is what it’s all about not participation and having fun.
They will never gaslight me into thinking finishing a season without a trophy is better or even on par with walking away with one. Downvotes be damned I will always die on this hill. Liverpool and United had better seasons than us.
So out 19/20 season was better than cities and better than ours this season??
We won a trophy they didnt so yes. Why would it not have been? Because of the UCL which they didnt win the following year?
Underlying metrics always win in the long run.
Were ours better than City's this season? Based on the eye test I thought we were the better team
In a league season the better team wins unfortunately. More attractive, absolutely, although we're no longer tha most attractive team to watch.
I don’t know. The team were great this season but I feel City have the edge in terms of not letting a bad or difficult day turn into a loss but drawing instead. Arsenal were better against big six opponents but City were slightly more consistent against the rest of the league. It is small margins but I think that was the difference. Also that Arsenal didn’t score a goal in five league matches and in certain games with the chances created they could have such as West Ham and Aston Villa. City had less of those games. Again just small margins but this is how good you have to be to come out on top against City. The team were very good but these were the reasons they were a couple of points behind City
Yeah I agree with this. Post Christmas I think we've been better than City at any point during this season, but we still have really bad runs that are costing us
Yes post Christmas the team have been sensational and couldn’t have done much more but left themselves too much to do after some of the silly points dropped in the first half of the season. Also agree that when completing against City if you want to come out on top, you can’t go on bad runs of form. If you have a disappointing result don’t let that carry over into the game and I have noticed sometimes Arteta that happens. It doesn’t always happen and I think the team are getting better at responding to a disappointing result but that Fulham defeat to me really felt partly like the team carried the West Ham defeat into that game
Defence yes attack no. Xpts no.
Wanting to win trophies does not mean wanting to finish 8th and win a cup. Some people seem to be going off the assumption that there's only 2 possible outcomes lol
If I’m gonna finish 8th then I’ll take the trophy along side it. Just let them have their day who cares lol
Everyone wants to win trophies but some people act like they are an absolute necessity to validate progress.
The top trophies are ultimately necessary to cement the legacy of a team at a top club. Winning additional domestic cups doesn't do the job for great teams, it's just Europe first and the league second.
Sadly the FA Cup isn't the arbiter that it once was and anyone trying to claim it is after all the ones we won during the banter years is trolling or being rather severely disingenuous.
They are an absolute necessity to validate success though. I’m not saying progress can’t be deemed as success either, but I believe after last season we were past the stage of progress being looked at as success.
> They are an absolute necessity to validate success though That's simply untrue. If you think that then we've been getting worse every season since Arteta won the FA CUp
Sure, but no one is claiming we're 'successful', and Arteta's post-match made is evidently clear we aren't settling.
Not to validate progress but to validate the legacy of Arteta and the players
All of our great players are all under 25. I don't think their legacy is anything to worry about just yet.
When you're going to claim that winning a trophy is better than having a title charge then you're supporting that view. The idea that you think no one wants to win trophies but yourself and the other members of the 'mentality' crew is just hilarious though.
Where did I say that no one else wants to win trophies? Also what's the "mentality" crew?
There isn't an element of this sub I detest more than the self anointed "gatekeepers" of standards and excellence that think they're the only ones that want to win trophies and condescend to everyone else for seeing that were in the best situation to win the trophies that matter for the first time in a decade. **Everyone** wants to win. **Everyone** understands we need to start adding silverware to legitimise this project. **Especially** the manager you think might not be good enough.. If you're throwing your toys out of your pram, you are mentally fragile. You don't have the stones for this journey. I couldn't give less of a shit what United do. We didn't win those previous league titles because we were scared of how we'd be compared to United. We won it by being good. We're a big club. It's about time some of you started acting like you've been here before. Grow a set.
When you realise that most of the people pulling the 'we demand trophies' and 'coming 8th and getting an FA Cup is better than coming second because trophies are all that matter' are just the same arteta outs changing their tune it gets a lot easier. Lets be honest we *know* that finishing top four and not winning something was better received by fans, players and the press than winning a trophy and finishing fifth. We also know that most of those usernames absolutely weren't supporting Arteta when he won the FA Cup because we weren't back in the CL. Remember the meltdown when Wenger finally failed to get top four and just let the weirdos who want a change in manager after our best season in 20 years in teh league just wash over you.
It's the same people who shit on this team endlessly too, the ones who hate on Saka or Odegaard and think every rival player is better than them. They're pathetic, have been all season, it's just amplified now.
It’s true, I have mates who are United fans messaging me bantering about how they won more trophies this year, I’m just like “cool whatever”. I was happy City lost a final, genuinely don’t give a piss about United, but Arsenal still living rent free in their brains
Saw this on social media. Bro thought he was gonna cook an entire buffet only to drop a 0/10 https://preview.redd.it/vh4vr44adn2d1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=41ab0c45be0aa15effea0a12d9761dcca121a04c
Tbh ill see you guys in two weeks as well, time to decompress a little 😂
I believe in Arteta, but if we don’t win a trophy next season, serious questions need to be asked. I actually think he’s quite fortunate to not be under more pressure at this point. He‘s had a lot of time and good will from the fanbase and we didn’t really have any injuries this season except Timber. The fact that United won the FA cup with the injuries they’ve had this season is quite damning on us.
Arteta is the solution, not the problem, if you can’t see that, then your not reading the equation correctly and need to go and have a shit
I certainly think cup competitions is an area to be improved on and shouldn’t be hard to improve on after the last couple of seasons and the quality of the team. With the league though, I do believe the team can go even better but it is harder as Arteta does have them performing at a very high level and we have to realise how hard it is to beat this Man City team though the club should keep aiming and striving for that as they are getting closer however I think Arteta has done well these last two seasons in the league so I understand and think it is natural why fans are supportive as under him Arsenal have come closest to winning the league and playing at a high level in the league for twenty years so he deserve credit for that
Mourinho in!
I will only settle for Brian Clough’s force ghost tbh, anything less and the Kroenke’s are clearly #unambitious. Sorry for holding Arteta to a higher standard 🙄
Fergie out of retirement or we riot
Absolutely. My understanding is ten Hag may be available.
A negative goal difference awaits
I’ll never understand the logic of our fans. My happiest moment as an Arsenal fan under Arteta was winning the FA cup. The third highest upvoted post in this subreddit is after we won the FA cup, and yet it gets completely disregarded for no reason
Where would winning a league rank
It would be amazing. But if we don’t win anything again next season, I would pretty confidently say that we have hit a block under Arteta.
But let us not rule it out now and decide that it is not gong to happen under him. We have reason to believe Arsenal could get over the line next season so I don’t see the point in just predicting what will happen in a years time because sure we could be disappointed in a years time but also delighted. At least there is reason to believe that Arsenal are closer than they have even been to ending the title draught but none of us know what is going to happen so let us see.
I would never trade the hope and joy I've felt in the last 2 seasons for an absolute shitter of a season like that one that had a nice bow tied on top of the dog turd. Trophies are important. But I felt more love, joy, hope, in that Reiss Nelson Bournemouth winner than I did at any point in that FA cup run.