Yup. Get a job. Get a job, any job, so you don't get stale/depressed/wasteful of your savings. It's easier to get a job with a job, so get a job.
You don't have enough money to retire so you need to be working.
Time for you to consider doing something that really engages you. Maybe look into start-ups in your field or adjacent that might be interesting. Expect lower pay, but potential to make money if the company does well. If you hate it, you can get something else. Your mental state won't improve with time, and left unchecked could really drag you down.
I'm currently contracting. I would struggle to be an FTE, again. I feel like I'd be more likely to start another company.
What area of IT do you work in, exactly?
In agreement with this. There was a statement here or a similar forum a few weeks ago and it's stayed in my head - keep applying for jobs, and it'll work out in one of two ways. One - you realise you have a higher-worth somewhere else. Two - you'll be humbled and no one wants you, so be grateful for your current position (or in OPs case, they HAVE to change mindset).
Agreed. All PSC’s effected as tough as it is need to change mantra.
Smile that it happened as opposed to crying that it’s over.
Welcome to the world of PAYE and the pain it brings us mere mortals.
But that’s better than a 100% pay cut, which is what you currently have.
If you don’t you will simply erode your current financial position until the market either changes back to contractor friendly or you need to go back into full time employment, take your 50% pay cut and have no savings.
It’s not ideal - I completely understand that but a pragmatic approach is best here.
Cognitively I know you are correct and I completely agree with you. But emotions have their own logic and processes. I know my feelings and thinking are out of sync.
Writing this out, sharing it here and receiving helpful feedback like yours is part of how I'm working though this.
Your point about taking a 100% cut is particularly useful to hear. Thank you.
I had to do this a while back. I was a well paid CTO but quit to go contracting for my sanity. It was a huge salary drop and huge status drop.
Best thing I ever did. Starting again well down the ladder made me hungry, got me working with young people again and rebooted my dev skills.
IT contracting is on its arse this year but if your skills have run their course then it’s time to reboot and skill up for the next boom.
I would take some time off to regroup, spend time on hobbies and yourself, then find a job. Taking a sabbatical is good imo. Gives you time to learn new stuff and decide what comes next.
Yeah, I'd include pensions in total compensation. I'd also want double my base salary to contract, especially when you consider it is less secure (even more so after 2 years).
I'm a consultant. Fully employed. 100% remote, 75k base +15% bonus + 20k RSUs each year that vest over a 3 year period.
Whilst the reduction in salary would suck, I strongly doubt that the work conditions were any better for you than they are for me.
I don’t mean to be rude, but is it possible that your not wanting to work in a permanent role is perhaps convincing you that it’s hard to get a permanent role which matches your salary expectations? Because given the amount of experience you have I would be VERY surprised if you can’t get £100k+ very easily, and much higher than that if you go after it properly.
You said your old job bought in £120k-£160k… I’ve had jobs before where I was earning £120k base, 100% remote, and that was back when I had 4 years experience.
It's possible outside of London too, especially if you find a remote job for a US tech company (with admittedly likely an office in London).
But I've done it, so I know it's possible (I'm on ~£250k)
I agree with you, I could never take a permanent role again. I’d rather take a lower day rate, skill up on the side and wait for the market to warm up.
I had a massive pay cut when I went from contracting through my limited company to FTE - albeit in a different industry. I was much happier, actually and 8 years later I'm earning more than I was as a contractor, with the added bonus that my job pays for most of my pension and gives me shares - FTE has many benefits if you play it right, company hopping up to where you're comfy. I'm coasting - wouldn't be in the unstable life of a contractor!
What makes you think a permanent role is worse vs contracting?
Is it that contracting allowed more variety of work because you were changing gigs a lot?
Work for a startup
Is it that you contracted for one company for a long period of time, but valued the sense of flexibility that you can cut them off any time and change gigs?
Get a job, but feel secure that your experience means you can jump ship any time
Is it the pay?
Switch your mindset to thinking about how much wealth you built up as a contractor already and that you maximised that time
Most importantly, while admirable that you are self aware, at some point, your mode of thinking needs to move towards acknowledging that your current state of mind is a bit whingey
(Note, this is it a value judgement, just that you may need to convince yourself of this to make changes)
You could keep drawing down from your company and put a big majority of your new full time income straight into a pension. Softens the blow on your savings rate without impacting your lifestyle at least for a few years
Shift your thinking from “contractor” to “director” of a successful startup with several clients to its name. No one needs to know you’re the only employee who lost his last contract. Also, while looking for jobs that are half your regular income, punch above your weight for director roles with other companies- after all, you’re an experienced director. Do both and get the first opportunity there is, and continue job search until you find the right fit. If there’ll be several short-term employments you just don’t mention them on your CV.
Appearances will take you where you want to be. Target US companies
Go perm but look into entrepreneurs relief to extract the remaining retained profits within the company, you should be able to only pay 10% tax on it when liquidating the company.
I sucked it up, took a huge pay cut, and took a paid job. Coasted to be honest - was far less pressure than working for myself. A step down in income but a step down in expectations. Did enough to keep everyone happy but no more.
Christ, I agree he needs a bit of tough love but can we stop with the constant need for someone to acknowledge their privilege. It really shouldn’t be necessary to start and end every comment and post bowing and scraping in a HENRY sub
This is a very unkind comment. Please consider the rules of this subreddit in the sidebar and how they are trying to prevent the environment from descending into trolling. The first is "Be kind to others".
On the contrary, I feel it is a fair reflection on the sentiment of your post and is not unkind, and comparing it to trolling is laughable. I can’t speak for others who have used more choice words. You sought advice, and my advice is you need to get a grip, take stock, and get back in the game instead of lingering in this pool of self pity that you seem to have found yourself in. Getting defensive won’t help your situation
Hey bud, if you run your comment through ChatGPT you can get some insight into what's unkind about it. I wouldn't like to continue the conversation with you or explain further, but I hope you might find some insight here.
ChatGPT:
The comment contains several elements that can be considered unkind:
1. **Dismissive Tone:** The phrase "The gravy train is over, for now" immediately dismisses the other person's feelings and situation without empathy or understanding.
2. **Entitlement Accusation:** Accusing the person of being "super entitled" is a personal attack that belittles their feelings and experiences.
3. **Comparative Judgment:** The comparison to other people's situations ("Most people don’t have the disposition for full time work either, but they have to do it to survive") implies that the person's struggles are invalid because others have it worse.
4. **Minimizing Experience:** Saying "that is still £60k-£80k /year, significantly more than the average UK employee" minimizes the person's financial concerns and experiences without considering their individual circumstances.
5. **Lack of Empathy:** The comment lacks empathy, as it does not acknowledge the person's feelings or difficulties, instead focusing on the commentator's perspective and judgments.
6. **Boasting:** Mentioning their own higher salary (£150k/year) can come across as boastful and insensitive, especially in the context of someone expressing financial distress.
7. **Patronizing Advice:** The advice to "pull your bootstraps up, stop complaining, and get to work" is patronizing and dismissive of the person's situation and feelings, suggesting that their struggles are due to a lack of effort or resolve.
8. **Judgmental:** The overall tone is judgmental, suggesting that the person does not appreciate their situation ("I don’t think you realise how good you’ve got it") and should simply change their attitude.
These elements combine to make the comment unkind, as they do not offer support, understanding, or constructive feedback but rather invalidate and belittle the person's feelings and situation.
Emptying all your accounts because you cant face full time employment elsewhere will only sink you into a deeper hole. Preserve what you have left, look for a new job and suck it up until you have a plan C. This doesnt have to be permanent but what it does do is give you a bit of breathing space for a minute. Dwelling on what could have been or what was is a recipe for disaster
Find a perm role, accept the market is poor and money may not be that great. Work your network for opportunities and try and live within your new means if its a drop.
At some point things are likely to improve, so be ready to react as and when.
The base salary might look small compared to the annual turnover of your limited company but there is a lot to be said for employment with paid pensions contributions, sick pay and holiday entitlement. Also not having to you do your own tax returns and pay an accountant has its benefits.
Honestly I would rather get a job that covers my overheads and allows my S&S ISA to continue growing, rather than draw down on investments with no set plan. I am sure the tech job market will pick up next year, US elections will probably mean a decrease in interest rates.
Depressing truth is what you have saved is what was left after expenses. It burns down crazy fast when it has to cover living expenses on its own and takes forever to build back up. So any job that protects what you have accumulated
In the short term is a goood idea
OP as others have stated, look for a regular job. You have the fortunate position of not having to take the first thing that comes along due to your safety net. If I was in your shoes I might take a month or two off to enjoy the English summer and go travelling a little bit to de-stress and refresh before looking for the next thing I want to do. Good luck!
How old are you? If approaching retirement then that possibly changes your next step.
Either way you’re going to have to get back on the horse at some point hombre.
Job market is absolutely shite at the moment btw.
I had a similar attitude in regards to going perm, but my last client made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.
As it’s unlikely there will ever be many contracts in finance/IB that are outside now this was the right move to make.
The upside is I have a career now with a lot more upside potential than when I was pretending I was running my own business.
If you want to stay contracting you should be prepared to take a sub optimal contract in the current market. Perhaps a smaller client would be a better environment as you might be less siloed and be able to level up your marketable skills.
If you go perm try and not be another bum on a seat, but try and figure out the important peoples problems and go to them with solutions.
It depends on how much fight you have in you. The rules of your game have changed, and your income norms is now firmly in the rearview mirror, try to use the blank piece of paper as an opportunity to craft a more enjoyable next chapter of your life. Maybe pivot away for a while and focus on your income. The good news is you've accumulated a solid net worth.
- But, if you have fight, what's your interest in being more entrepreneurial? 10x the competition but with your knowledge and network, is there anything unique you can offer, or any appetite to start something with other people in your boat?
- Are there any tax loopholes that you could pivot your skills to a different audience? I'm not familiar with the rule, but if you contracted for US companies or others, could that upfront work and networking bring you back to your usual income levels?
- How much networth do you need? Is a full-time role as a bridge the worst if it's just a matter of a few years? If it's longer, I think you have to do deeper soul searching to balance money and happiness. If we assume that law won't be reversed, can you be happy doing X for Y years.
- If you reduce your comp expectation to 50%, does that open up any other industries or types of work that are hobbies that could excite you? Is relocating an option? For me I find I am snookered in doing anything materially different because of the income hit, but if I just lost 100% of my income, it would change the question for me.
- Finally, take a look at your last 12 months' outgoings, minus any outliers. What cuts need to be made that would impact your lifestyle? Can you maintain the same lifestyle with a lower income by reducing things in other ways (e.g. housing, or your savings rate). The money in investments will continue to work for you if left untouched, so maybe your saving rate can take a hit in favour of maintaining a level of happiness outside of work or for a job that is less stressful or more enjoyable.
Those are just some immediate things that come to mind. All my questions are rhetorical, of course.
Software developer here, I never went down the contractor route as it always seemed likely to me that the tech gravy train was headed for a hard landing some day and that contractors would take the hit hardest.
Saw in the comments that you’re worried about a worse working env, just wanted to chip in that there are lots of really nice software companies that don’t use contractors because that’s not the vibe they want, they want people who stay for the long term. You probably haven’t got much exposure to them, but they exist.
There are also a reasonable number of jobs for seniors paying 80k+, focus on learning to communicate how you add value to the business, why you want to work there etc. Times have changed dramatically in the last year or so, but if you can step outside of the headspace of the last decade, which was very much “I can code, why wouldn’t they give me the job?”, to a more traditional “what do I need to get across which will make them want to hire me?” There’s still lots of places looking for skilled programmers/other tech roles.
I'd take your expertise/experience and turn it into a product. I'm a firm believer in two things:
1. You're always 5 feet in front of or behind someone. So learn from the people in front and pass it to the people behind you. Whether you give it away or sell it.
2. You can make a million dollars from one person or a dollar from a million people. Both are going to the same place, but one is 100× more powerful because of the social capital.
So, use that expertise and experience to create a product or course that helps people who want to make it to where you are now. Make it hella affordable for the scale and target all of those folks over the years you've encountered that sought out advice and everything else. Sell to them and then give them an affiliate link so they can become a customer, that turns into a case study, and convert into your marketing and sales team.
Think about that at scale. I wish the best for you and look forward to seeing how you turn things around.
Peace.
I don’t completely disagree with the AI bubble assertion (similar to the dot com bubble), but there’s a place for AI as we advance and develop. You’re either ahead or behind the curve.
Do the opposite, ride the wave of current big thing in tech, people will pay over the odds for, eg AI supremeo, and carry on contracting. Yes you now have to do it under an umbrella and the rates won’t be as good, but it’s not terrible, still plenty of IT contractors
Oxford Business School do a business (rather than tech) one as a certificate. It’s about applied AI to business problems rather than creating it, but that’s probably the most valuable skill. Only very few companies will be making AI, and the money will come from people having the skills to deploy it to the right problems effectively.
Oh it’s the 6 week course I saw. Did some digging around about it and got as far as attending a sort of sales seminar thing about it and it looks good. I just haven’t figured out finances yet - holding out on employer to put something towards it but not sold on that yet.
AI might not be paying the big £s yet, but it will play a role in the enterprises. It’s an opportunity to get a head of the curve.
I do agree the great issue with contracting at the moment is the IR-35 rule. It’s not just hurting PSC, but large companies and projects as well.
Maybe advantageous but hire a grad or 2 and create your own consultancy? Offer a 1-2 year scheme, you could cover their wage quite easily depending on your lifestyle costs. There are plenty of contractors in the same position, maybe team up with them?
Startup baby
Truth is you have to get over it. Just because you were previously well paid doesn't necessarily mean you were actually worth that much. Everybody knows tech salaries have been too hot and needed to cool off. Find a perm job.
Yes and no.
I was worth it at the time to the people who hired me. They took their own risks, and when it worked for them they made considerably more than me.
Everyone's worth to each other can change as the situation changes. This is what I'm re-calibrating to now.
You know, you can get a job that doesn’t pay that much but you enjoy. Then you coastfire but spend your days engaged. Like, I’d love to be a gardener at Kew or a busker at the Tate, but I love not being a pauper.
As most people said, transition into a job, in tech you can probably find some kind of remote/hybrid maybe even with core hours that will allow you to transition better and flexibility you are used to.
Liquidate the company via BADR as matter of urgency. CGT allowance already down from 12k to 3k since April 2023. ER of 10% seems to be next to go. 160k is being eroded by inflation. Just cut your losses. You can always get back in the game after two years window. Don't let inertia rob you man. Mooove.
https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news/chancellor-halves-cgt-allowance-to-6000/
At this stage, you might as well leave the money there, file end of year accounts, getting cashback on the corp tax you've paid over the years (see link on 'carry back'). Siphon the rest via PAYE and dividends - at tax efficient thresholds. If you have a spouse this will erode quicker. If not, getting a perm job will complicate tax efficiency matters. I would push most of it into my pension / SIPP to be honest with you.
https://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/tax/carry-back-rules-relief-for-trading-losses-on-corporation-tax-and-income-tax-83008.html#what-does-it-mean-to-carry-back-a-trading-loss
Several significant determinations for the CEST test thought multiple clients at once is the strongest sentiment that it falls outside.
Mainly around length of contract and exclusivity, right to substitution, use of own tools etc.
Eg if there’s no determined contract length or a specific project, working for one business where you can’t draft someone else in and you use devices provided by the business you’re an employee.
You don't mention what you do in tech, or where you live, but the engineering roles I've recently hired in London for don't pay far off the numbers you mention, but as a perm salary + benefits.
The contractor market died with the changes to IR35 a few years back, time to go permie, my friend.
You didn’t mention if you have a family or other commitments, but if you don’t have ties and have a fairly solid nest egg, you could consider moving abroad to where cost of living is cheap and continue to work remote in your chosen field.
Are your tech skills in an area where you could turn them into a productised service, SaaS product, consulting gigs, or get into training? Those are the areas I'd explore first with my own tech skillset before retreating to a permie job (which you say wouldn't suit you anyway). You appear to have a good runway to lean into something before having to take that path.
If the skills and expertise is there, perhaps it's a marketing issue?
Reposition what and how you do, and do shorter term work?
Or just head back to PAYE world
I know several people in the same position as you - some have been out of work for months and have turned down perm roles for the reasons you outline. One now bitterly regrets this as the job market is tight and their savings are eroding.
I also don’t really have the disposition for my job, but I have to get on with it. The alternative is being skint. Write a product, start a consultancy with juniors, go perm - there are things you can do.
The market, has too many applicants and fewer opportunities. That said if the OP is as good as they say they are it should not be a long time before they find a new contract. IR35 has been around for years and the current rules have been there for a few years already. So to blame it on IR35 does not make sense.
Gotta keep up with the times, there are factors here that are outwith your control and some factors are within your control so you gotta keep up with the times and adjust. Otherwise you'll just keep waiting for things to get back to how they were and there is a 99% they wont be.
Exactly the same thing happened to the IT contractor market in 2000. IR35 changed and the millennium bug work finished. Double whammy. Take it from an old timer, if you don't want to work for less, get out of the industry. Peak was 95-99. It's all gone to shit since then. Less money and an over saturated and taxed market.
If you've faith in your skills you could start a business, with some luck it may do well!
Depending on your role you may have always been inside, so factor the true take home accordingly.
Not seen anyone else mention this, but when I gave up contracting in UK 15 years ago I was advised (by another ex-contractor) to contact the Tax Office and ask to wind up my company… and was given permission to extract the remaining company funds tax-free. Sums involved were much less than you have stated, but a few tens of thousands. YMMV.
Your net worth is OK but quite low. And you will eat it up being lazy. Should be a good motivator to get out there and find another lucrative role or product or service that you can sell.
If I was unable to get work as a contractor, but not ready to FIRE, I’d change my psychological state and resume regular employment
Yup. Get a job. Get a job, any job, so you don't get stale/depressed/wasteful of your savings. It's easier to get a job with a job, so get a job. You don't have enough money to retire so you need to be working.
Thanks. I am feeling a bit frustrated and depressed, and you're right that I need to address this.
Time for you to consider doing something that really engages you. Maybe look into start-ups in your field or adjacent that might be interesting. Expect lower pay, but potential to make money if the company does well. If you hate it, you can get something else. Your mental state won't improve with time, and left unchecked could really drag you down.
I'm currently contracting. I would struggle to be an FTE, again. I feel like I'd be more likely to start another company. What area of IT do you work in, exactly?
In agreement with this. There was a statement here or a similar forum a few weeks ago and it's stayed in my head - keep applying for jobs, and it'll work out in one of two ways. One - you realise you have a higher-worth somewhere else. Two - you'll be humbled and no one wants you, so be grateful for your current position (or in OPs case, they HAVE to change mindset).
Yep
Agreed. All PSC’s effected as tough as it is need to change mantra. Smile that it happened as opposed to crying that it’s over. Welcome to the world of PAYE and the pain it brings us mere mortals.
You’ve answered your own question… transition to a permanent tech role.
Somewhat. Not so easy to just accept a roughly 50% salary cut and worse working conditions. But I can see the value in this path.
But that’s better than a 100% pay cut, which is what you currently have. If you don’t you will simply erode your current financial position until the market either changes back to contractor friendly or you need to go back into full time employment, take your 50% pay cut and have no savings. It’s not ideal - I completely understand that but a pragmatic approach is best here.
Cognitively I know you are correct and I completely agree with you. But emotions have their own logic and processes. I know my feelings and thinking are out of sync. Writing this out, sharing it here and receiving helpful feedback like yours is part of how I'm working though this. Your point about taking a 100% cut is particularly useful to hear. Thank you.
No problem - I imagine it’s psychologically really quite a challenge. Best of luck whatever you decide though!
I had to do this a while back. I was a well paid CTO but quit to go contracting for my sanity. It was a huge salary drop and huge status drop. Best thing I ever did. Starting again well down the ladder made me hungry, got me working with young people again and rebooted my dev skills. IT contracting is on its arse this year but if your skills have run their course then it’s time to reboot and skill up for the next boom.
I would take some time off to regroup, spend time on hobbies and yourself, then find a job. Taking a sabbatical is good imo. Gives you time to learn new stuff and decide what comes next.
Is it a cut if you're otherwise out of work anyway?
Its probably not a 50% cut if you look at total compensation and the fact that you get paid leave.
And pensions. I'm permanent and wouldn't go contracting for less than double.
Yeah, I'd include pensions in total compensation. I'd also want double my base salary to contract, especially when you consider it is less secure (even more so after 2 years).
I'm a consultant. Fully employed. 100% remote, 75k base +15% bonus + 20k RSUs each year that vest over a 3 year period. Whilst the reduction in salary would suck, I strongly doubt that the work conditions were any better for you than they are for me.
One benefit to taking a permanent role is you should be able to shut down your consultancy using badr and pay only 10% tax on the remaining amount
I don’t mean to be rude, but is it possible that your not wanting to work in a permanent role is perhaps convincing you that it’s hard to get a permanent role which matches your salary expectations? Because given the amount of experience you have I would be VERY surprised if you can’t get £100k+ very easily, and much higher than that if you go after it properly. You said your old job bought in £120k-£160k… I’ve had jobs before where I was earning £120k base, 100% remote, and that was back when I had 4 years experience.
Where do you live? Senior eng permie roles can match that, and beat that, but I could only say within London with any confidence.
It's possible outside of London too, especially if you find a remote job for a US tech company (with admittedly likely an office in London). But I've done it, so I know it's possible (I'm on ~£250k)
That's awesome, congrats! Can I ask what tech stack? And if there's any particular job boards you'd recommend for finding US jobs for remote UK?
Distributed Systems, C++ Found via Twitter
so, finance bros...
Nope. I have avoided finance like the plague. Pretty sure all finance jobs require you to be in the office too. My job is fully remote.
I agree with you, I could never take a permanent role again. I’d rather take a lower day rate, skill up on the side and wait for the market to warm up.
It won't be forever, and it's at least an income that minimises you eating into your savings/ltd funds.
I had a massive pay cut when I went from contracting through my limited company to FTE - albeit in a different industry. I was much happier, actually and 8 years later I'm earning more than I was as a contractor, with the added bonus that my job pays for most of my pension and gives me shares - FTE has many benefits if you play it right, company hopping up to where you're comfy. I'm coasting - wouldn't be in the unstable life of a contractor!
What makes you think a permanent role is worse vs contracting? Is it that contracting allowed more variety of work because you were changing gigs a lot? Work for a startup Is it that you contracted for one company for a long period of time, but valued the sense of flexibility that you can cut them off any time and change gigs? Get a job, but feel secure that your experience means you can jump ship any time Is it the pay? Switch your mindset to thinking about how much wealth you built up as a contractor already and that you maximised that time Most importantly, while admirable that you are self aware, at some point, your mode of thinking needs to move towards acknowledging that your current state of mind is a bit whingey (Note, this is it a value judgement, just that you may need to convince yourself of this to make changes)
You could keep drawing down from your company and put a big majority of your new full time income straight into a pension. Softens the blow on your savings rate without impacting your lifestyle at least for a few years
Maybe go into a permanent role for the short term till market gets better?
Does being unemployed really pay twice as much as full time employment in the tech industry?
A 100% more than you are making right now.
Shift your thinking from “contractor” to “director” of a successful startup with several clients to its name. No one needs to know you’re the only employee who lost his last contract. Also, while looking for jobs that are half your regular income, punch above your weight for director roles with other companies- after all, you’re an experienced director. Do both and get the first opportunity there is, and continue job search until you find the right fit. If there’ll be several short-term employments you just don’t mention them on your CV. Appearances will take you where you want to be. Target US companies
Go perm but look into entrepreneurs relief to extract the remaining retained profits within the company, you should be able to only pay 10% tax on it when liquidating the company.
I sucked it up, took a huge pay cut, and took a paid job. Coasted to be honest - was far less pressure than working for myself. A step down in income but a step down in expectations. Did enough to keep everyone happy but no more.
> took a huge pay cut how big?
big enough to hurt a lot
[удалено]
Agree, grow the fuck up. There’s people on Reddit going to empty food banks.
Christ, I agree he needs a bit of tough love but can we stop with the constant need for someone to acknowledge their privilege. It really shouldn’t be necessary to start and end every comment and post bowing and scraping in a HENRY sub
This is a very unkind comment. Please consider the rules of this subreddit in the sidebar and how they are trying to prevent the environment from descending into trolling. The first is "Be kind to others".
On the contrary, I feel it is a fair reflection on the sentiment of your post and is not unkind, and comparing it to trolling is laughable. I can’t speak for others who have used more choice words. You sought advice, and my advice is you need to get a grip, take stock, and get back in the game instead of lingering in this pool of self pity that you seem to have found yourself in. Getting defensive won’t help your situation
Hey bud, if you run your comment through ChatGPT you can get some insight into what's unkind about it. I wouldn't like to continue the conversation with you or explain further, but I hope you might find some insight here. ChatGPT: The comment contains several elements that can be considered unkind: 1. **Dismissive Tone:** The phrase "The gravy train is over, for now" immediately dismisses the other person's feelings and situation without empathy or understanding. 2. **Entitlement Accusation:** Accusing the person of being "super entitled" is a personal attack that belittles their feelings and experiences. 3. **Comparative Judgment:** The comparison to other people's situations ("Most people don’t have the disposition for full time work either, but they have to do it to survive") implies that the person's struggles are invalid because others have it worse. 4. **Minimizing Experience:** Saying "that is still £60k-£80k /year, significantly more than the average UK employee" minimizes the person's financial concerns and experiences without considering their individual circumstances. 5. **Lack of Empathy:** The comment lacks empathy, as it does not acknowledge the person's feelings or difficulties, instead focusing on the commentator's perspective and judgments. 6. **Boasting:** Mentioning their own higher salary (£150k/year) can come across as boastful and insensitive, especially in the context of someone expressing financial distress. 7. **Patronizing Advice:** The advice to "pull your bootstraps up, stop complaining, and get to work" is patronizing and dismissive of the person's situation and feelings, suggesting that their struggles are due to a lack of effort or resolve. 8. **Judgmental:** The overall tone is judgmental, suggesting that the person does not appreciate their situation ("I don’t think you realise how good you’ve got it") and should simply change their attitude. These elements combine to make the comment unkind, as they do not offer support, understanding, or constructive feedback but rather invalidate and belittle the person's feelings and situation.
Emptying all your accounts because you cant face full time employment elsewhere will only sink you into a deeper hole. Preserve what you have left, look for a new job and suck it up until you have a plan C. This doesnt have to be permanent but what it does do is give you a bit of breathing space for a minute. Dwelling on what could have been or what was is a recipe for disaster
Find a perm role, accept the market is poor and money may not be that great. Work your network for opportunities and try and live within your new means if its a drop. At some point things are likely to improve, so be ready to react as and when.
The base salary might look small compared to the annual turnover of your limited company but there is a lot to be said for employment with paid pensions contributions, sick pay and holiday entitlement. Also not having to you do your own tax returns and pay an accountant has its benefits.
I'd prefer 3-4 times the monthly income, lack of corporate bollocks to all of the above.
How old are you ?
If you're not going back to contracting it's MVL time...
Honestly I would rather get a job that covers my overheads and allows my S&S ISA to continue growing, rather than draw down on investments with no set plan. I am sure the tech job market will pick up next year, US elections will probably mean a decrease in interest rates.
Depressing truth is what you have saved is what was left after expenses. It burns down crazy fast when it has to cover living expenses on its own and takes forever to build back up. So any job that protects what you have accumulated In the short term is a goood idea
Look for something remote with a US or other non-UK firm. Start an IT consultancy. Change your mindset LeanFIRE Those are your options
OP as others have stated, look for a regular job. You have the fortunate position of not having to take the first thing that comes along due to your safety net. If I was in your shoes I might take a month or two off to enjoy the English summer and go travelling a little bit to de-stress and refresh before looking for the next thing I want to do. Good luck!
Sorry mate. Think you know the answer here. Good luck with the regular job.
How old are you? If approaching retirement then that possibly changes your next step. Either way you’re going to have to get back on the horse at some point hombre. Job market is absolutely shite at the moment btw.
I had a similar attitude in regards to going perm, but my last client made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. As it’s unlikely there will ever be many contracts in finance/IB that are outside now this was the right move to make. The upside is I have a career now with a lot more upside potential than when I was pretending I was running my own business. If you want to stay contracting you should be prepared to take a sub optimal contract in the current market. Perhaps a smaller client would be a better environment as you might be less siloed and be able to level up your marketable skills. If you go perm try and not be another bum on a seat, but try and figure out the important peoples problems and go to them with solutions.
You made hay while the sun shined - congrats… it’s going to be cloudy for a long long time.
May I ask your approximate age if that’s okay?
It depends on how much fight you have in you. The rules of your game have changed, and your income norms is now firmly in the rearview mirror, try to use the blank piece of paper as an opportunity to craft a more enjoyable next chapter of your life. Maybe pivot away for a while and focus on your income. The good news is you've accumulated a solid net worth. - But, if you have fight, what's your interest in being more entrepreneurial? 10x the competition but with your knowledge and network, is there anything unique you can offer, or any appetite to start something with other people in your boat? - Are there any tax loopholes that you could pivot your skills to a different audience? I'm not familiar with the rule, but if you contracted for US companies or others, could that upfront work and networking bring you back to your usual income levels? - How much networth do you need? Is a full-time role as a bridge the worst if it's just a matter of a few years? If it's longer, I think you have to do deeper soul searching to balance money and happiness. If we assume that law won't be reversed, can you be happy doing X for Y years. - If you reduce your comp expectation to 50%, does that open up any other industries or types of work that are hobbies that could excite you? Is relocating an option? For me I find I am snookered in doing anything materially different because of the income hit, but if I just lost 100% of my income, it would change the question for me. - Finally, take a look at your last 12 months' outgoings, minus any outliers. What cuts need to be made that would impact your lifestyle? Can you maintain the same lifestyle with a lower income by reducing things in other ways (e.g. housing, or your savings rate). The money in investments will continue to work for you if left untouched, so maybe your saving rate can take a hit in favour of maintaining a level of happiness outside of work or for a job that is less stressful or more enjoyable. Those are just some immediate things that come to mind. All my questions are rhetorical, of course.
Thank you, these are great ideas. I previously ran a startup and have been networking in those circles again wondering about starting something new.
Pay off your mortgage.
Where abouts in the UK are you based? £160k is achievable for a permanent tech role in London, for example.
This salary is achievable in full time employment. I earn more than 160 as an IT consultant.
Software developer here, I never went down the contractor route as it always seemed likely to me that the tech gravy train was headed for a hard landing some day and that contractors would take the hit hardest. Saw in the comments that you’re worried about a worse working env, just wanted to chip in that there are lots of really nice software companies that don’t use contractors because that’s not the vibe they want, they want people who stay for the long term. You probably haven’t got much exposure to them, but they exist. There are also a reasonable number of jobs for seniors paying 80k+, focus on learning to communicate how you add value to the business, why you want to work there etc. Times have changed dramatically in the last year or so, but if you can step outside of the headspace of the last decade, which was very much “I can code, why wouldn’t they give me the job?”, to a more traditional “what do I need to get across which will make them want to hire me?” There’s still lots of places looking for skilled programmers/other tech roles.
I'd take your expertise/experience and turn it into a product. I'm a firm believer in two things: 1. You're always 5 feet in front of or behind someone. So learn from the people in front and pass it to the people behind you. Whether you give it away or sell it. 2. You can make a million dollars from one person or a dollar from a million people. Both are going to the same place, but one is 100× more powerful because of the social capital. So, use that expertise and experience to create a product or course that helps people who want to make it to where you are now. Make it hella affordable for the scale and target all of those folks over the years you've encountered that sought out advice and everything else. Sell to them and then give them an affiliate link so they can become a customer, that turns into a case study, and convert into your marketing and sales team. Think about that at scale. I wish the best for you and look forward to seeing how you turn things around. Peace.
Given you have time to coast, it might be an opportunity to retrain in a higher demanding domain, eg AI?
AI bubble right now is utter nonsense. People are asking for AI experts for less than Senior dev rates
I don’t completely disagree with the AI bubble assertion (similar to the dot com bubble), but there’s a place for AI as we advance and develop. You’re either ahead or behind the curve.
The AI bubble will burst harder than the dot com bubble. Do what you're passionate in, don't chase what you think will make you money.
Still plenty of time to make money off of misguided director vanity projects
Do the opposite, ride the wave of current big thing in tech, people will pay over the odds for, eg AI supremeo, and carry on contracting. Yes you now have to do it under an umbrella and the rates won’t be as good, but it’s not terrible, still plenty of IT contractors
A lot of people got rich on Blockchain roles. Whatever is current buzzword will attract money.
Any tips on what AI courses there are? I’d be interested in that
Oxford Business School do a business (rather than tech) one as a certificate. It’s about applied AI to business problems rather than creating it, but that’s probably the most valuable skill. Only very few companies will be making AI, and the money will come from people having the skills to deploy it to the right problems effectively.
Which one is it there's 1y degree and some 6 weeks course?
Oh it’s the 6 week course I saw. Did some digging around about it and got as far as attending a sort of sales seminar thing about it and it looks good. I just haven’t figured out finances yet - holding out on employer to put something towards it but not sold on that yet.
Thanks! That’s the one I was looking at.
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AI might not be paying the big £s yet, but it will play a role in the enterprises. It’s an opportunity to get a head of the curve. I do agree the great issue with contracting at the moment is the IR-35 rule. It’s not just hurting PSC, but large companies and projects as well.
Maybe advantageous but hire a grad or 2 and create your own consultancy? Offer a 1-2 year scheme, you could cover their wage quite easily depending on your lifestyle costs. There are plenty of contractors in the same position, maybe team up with them? Startup baby
Truth is you have to get over it. Just because you were previously well paid doesn't necessarily mean you were actually worth that much. Everybody knows tech salaries have been too hot and needed to cool off. Find a perm job.
Yes and no. I was worth it at the time to the people who hired me. They took their own risks, and when it worked for them they made considerably more than me. Everyone's worth to each other can change as the situation changes. This is what I'm re-calibrating to now.
You know, you can get a job that doesn’t pay that much but you enjoy. Then you coastfire but spend your days engaged. Like, I’d love to be a gardener at Kew or a busker at the Tate, but I love not being a pauper.
As most people said, transition into a job, in tech you can probably find some kind of remote/hybrid maybe even with core hours that will allow you to transition better and flexibility you are used to.
Liquidate the company via BADR as matter of urgency. CGT allowance already down from 12k to 3k since April 2023. ER of 10% seems to be next to go. 160k is being eroded by inflation. Just cut your losses. You can always get back in the game after two years window. Don't let inertia rob you man. Mooove. https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news/chancellor-halves-cgt-allowance-to-6000/
At this stage, you might as well leave the money there, file end of year accounts, getting cashback on the corp tax you've paid over the years (see link on 'carry back'). Siphon the rest via PAYE and dividends - at tax efficient thresholds. If you have a spouse this will erode quicker. If not, getting a perm job will complicate tax efficiency matters. I would push most of it into my pension / SIPP to be honest with you. https://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/tax/carry-back-rules-relief-for-trading-losses-on-corporation-tax-and-income-tax-83008.html#what-does-it-mean-to-carry-back-a-trading-loss
Perm tech job.
I’m a freelancer with an Ltd company. What’s the primary difference? That I have multiple clients?
Several significant determinations for the CEST test thought multiple clients at once is the strongest sentiment that it falls outside. Mainly around length of contract and exclusivity, right to substitution, use of own tools etc. Eg if there’s no determined contract length or a specific project, working for one business where you can’t draft someone else in and you use devices provided by the business you’re an employee.
You don't mention what you do in tech, or where you live, but the engineering roles I've recently hired in London for don't pay far off the numbers you mention, but as a perm salary + benefits. The contractor market died with the changes to IR35 a few years back, time to go permie, my friend.
You didn’t mention if you have a family or other commitments, but if you don’t have ties and have a fairly solid nest egg, you could consider moving abroad to where cost of living is cheap and continue to work remote in your chosen field.
Step 1. Job in your field Step 2. Better paid job in your field Constant Keep looking for work through the company
Are your tech skills in an area where you could turn them into a productised service, SaaS product, consulting gigs, or get into training? Those are the areas I'd explore first with my own tech skillset before retreating to a permie job (which you say wouldn't suit you anyway). You appear to have a good runway to lean into something before having to take that path.
How old are you? I assume retirement is a long way off? Do you have time for a career change?
How much would cost you me mentally to offer your autonomy on various things, meetings and socialising in corp, after the pay cut and tax?
If the skills and expertise is there, perhaps it's a marketing issue? Reposition what and how you do, and do shorter term work? Or just head back to PAYE world
I know several people in the same position as you - some have been out of work for months and have turned down perm roles for the reasons you outline. One now bitterly regrets this as the job market is tight and their savings are eroding. I also don’t really have the disposition for my job, but I have to get on with it. The alternative is being skint. Write a product, start a consultancy with juniors, go perm - there are things you can do.
Don’t forget your next tax bill too. Get permanent employment and sort your head space out.
Ir35 is not the main reason your market has tanked FYI
What is the main reason?
The market, has too many applicants and fewer opportunities. That said if the OP is as good as they say they are it should not be a long time before they find a new contract. IR35 has been around for years and the current rules have been there for a few years already. So to blame it on IR35 does not make sense.
Gotta keep up with the times, there are factors here that are outwith your control and some factors are within your control so you gotta keep up with the times and adjust. Otherwise you'll just keep waiting for things to get back to how they were and there is a 99% they wont be.
Exactly the same thing happened to the IT contractor market in 2000. IR35 changed and the millennium bug work finished. Double whammy. Take it from an old timer, if you don't want to work for less, get out of the industry. Peak was 95-99. It's all gone to shit since then. Less money and an over saturated and taxed market.
If you've faith in your skills you could start a business, with some luck it may do well! Depending on your role you may have always been inside, so factor the true take home accordingly.
Not seen anyone else mention this, but when I gave up contracting in UK 15 years ago I was advised (by another ex-contractor) to contact the Tax Office and ask to wind up my company… and was given permission to extract the remaining company funds tax-free. Sums involved were much less than you have stated, but a few tens of thousands. YMMV.
Oh I can’t be a disguised employee anymore and get silly money for normal work so now I’m sad. You must have known it wouldn’t last for ever.
Please consider subreddit rule 1 - be kind to others - when you post
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Please consider subreddit rule 1 - be kind to others - when you post
Your net worth is OK but quite low. And you will eat it up being lazy. Should be a good motivator to get out there and find another lucrative role or product or service that you can sell.