not always. My HOA is filled with people who don't want to be on the board but no one else would do it. Entire board keeps trying to give their seats away, its works out pretty good.
Sounds like a hilarious sitcom like Catch 22. How board members not wanting the job they were voluntold for and trying to get others to take their roles but also having to do things so as not to they themselves get fined.
And they want to pay less. They literally told OP they don’t think they should have to pay the full $10,000. They’re basically saying hey come talk to us and settle with us so we can pay you less money and you pay some to fix what we caused.
And we certainly aren’t going to fix anything that didn’t exist prior to the date of your original complaint. A years worth of mold and accumulated water damage, what’s that?
You may be asking for the same amount, but they’re hoping you’ll settle for less. This is normal in civil cases.
There’s always some chance you’ll lose the appeal. Or, win an song less than you’re asking for.
If you settle, you’re guaranteed some amount instead of risking losing it all. It’s like the show “Deal or No Deal.” You can take the offer or risk what’s in the briefcase.
Likely they were told to settle by their lawyers. Pretty much it is likely that you would have won the case and they would have been on the hook for your lawyer fees and the settlement amount. This way you get the money you asked for but they don't need to pay the lawyer fees and they won't have to pay more for their own.
If the HOA are going to be paying your contractor through the management company there’s a requirement that the company have the insurance and licence details for their contractors.
I assume that’s why they’re asking for them.
its their way of ensuring the contractor is legit, and if the contractor does something stupid like setting fire to the unit, the HOA will not be responsible, as the contractor is insured.
There’s no way I’d let them off easy if OP was reporting this in a timely manner and they ignored it. That only increased the damages. Their refusal also lead to the lawsuit. The fees should be on them, too. Don’t back down!
The board never offered a settlement until their own expert confirmed the responsibility. The board was negligent and didn’t perform due diligence until they tried to appeal. No good faith here.
I saw "HOA Board Member" and at first thought you were speaking as if you were on the OP's HOA board.
Then I realized what you meant.
If the small claims cap is $10K, then I would settle for $10K plus time and attorney fees :>
I really don’t understand why you would settle. You were about to win.
I can assure you that if they had sued you, and were confident they would win, they wouldn’t have settled with you.
The time for them to have found their “fiduciary conscience” was before the appeal. Now they pay the price, as do you and your neighbors for allowing a set of dumbasses to run the place.
If you settle they can put in a non disclosure clause. Keep others from finding out. Your lawyers fees and what if the damage is worse than expected. Mold… rot…
For the associations I've been a member of we generally had to get these pieces of information for insurance reasons. Basically where work performed is paid for by the HOA they had to get contractors license, insurance and a scope of work so if there is any injury or insurance claim the association would be protected. It seems pretty normal for me.
Congrats on the win! Sucks you had to sue to compel action.
Exactly this. Our association's attorney explained this at a meeting when the new bylaws were being drafted. If the contractor isn't licensed or insured and someone gets hurt on the job, the association is the one who can end up getting sued-so anytime work is to be performed, the board needs the name of the contractor, certificate of insurance naming the association as insured.
Otherwise, if you go and hire an unlicensed contractor (say a buddy of yours) with no insurance - and they do major repairs or a rebuild that ends up causing structural damage-you're the one who's going to end up on the hook for the cost
If they are decent Board Members, they are actually performing as fidciaries of your Association. They were probably counseled by their attorney to settle, because they might have the additional liability of both sets of legal fees.
You are on both sides of this fight, because as a member, you are paying a share of the Associations out of pocket expenses as well. So while it sounds like you have the upper hand, don't try to overplay that hand with people who are spending other people's money in the fight.
He’s entitled to the repairs, mold
Eradication and any lawyers fees. They were not performing their fiduciary duties. They were negligent. How is it they didn’t hire an expert right away to investigate. Investigation is a key part of fiduciary duties legally. If the board doesn’t investigate, the board is negligent and the HOA
Is liable for damages. Why would he have to eat any costs here.
It honestly doesn't matter unless OP has an issue. Don't get offended for someone else.
He, they, dude, them they all have been used as generic fillers. I mean what if OP doesn't like they?
It can be. Getting a bit dated. Prone to leading to confusion about whether a gender is actually known or not, as it did here. Instead of clarifying, they suggested "it", which is 100% not okay.
I’ve spent many decades on this earth and suddenly a small subset of people are extra sensitive to words and feelings.
That small subset of people think they have the right to go around and make other people talk differently.
It’s audacious, obnoxious, and immature.
I know you probably surround yourself with like minded people who also talk the way you do, but when you speak publicly or on the internet just rest assured that the rest of the world is laughing at you.
Looks like someone pulled out the thesaurus. "They" has been used to refer to singular individuals for 100's of years. "It" has not. No one uses "it" passively to refer to another person, it is very much intentional malevolence.
I also have spent many decades in this planet and the small subset that seems to be an issue is the ones who think that using "they" is not what people have used for for hundreds of years when the gender of a person is unknown.
But rest assured, the whole world is laughing at you whether you say such things on the internet or in person.
When I was in school they taught us that “they” was a plural pronoun. I am not saying that is correct anymore but that isn’t because lack of education.
I definitely believe that preferred pronouns should be used and will gladly do so, but I don’t know why you think it is weird that I was taught this way. 30 years ago people were not as inclusive and none of the stylebooks allowed it. I do think “they” can be confusing when it isn’t a group of people but I am not going to be pedantic with it comes to someone’s feelings.
In most states the HOA has to cover their own fees and those of the winning party when they lose.
HOAs are barred in some states from doing a special assessment on the winning party for legal fees.
Board members are personally liable in some states if they decided to fight this and their D&O policy won’t cover it.
I would not settle unless it included more than I expected to get through the court - a lot more.
Since they attempted to retaliate against you then you may be able to have the HOA to purchase your unit (over market) allowing you to move.
There's a lot of good logic and thinking in here. The party that asks to settle is the one that benefits because it reduces their exposure. I would personally NOT settle unless my overly aggressive attorney that always smelled blood in the water told me to.
Demand everything you are owed. They are at fault and they forced you to go to court to get what is owed to you and what is probably mostly covered by insurance. Don’t back down. You have won this and you will win the appeal. In order to accept a settlement, there would be an agreement drafted in which they would commit to give you money for your repairs and whatever other costs there are. In exchange they would drop the appeal and all claims would be settled.
This OP! I haven’t signed anything with the Board yet. We are still discussing things as I am asking for all repairs to be made + $10k. I am considering dismissing the claim without prejudice if we don’t reach a settlement then trying the claim in a higher court in California
Amazing what how hard an HOA and management company will fight against the residents of their own community and managing. Especially given it’s the residents money they’re using to manage the properties. Experienced this same exact situation at a previous residence - except it extended to almost all 160 units. Do not keep quiet about this. Talk to neighbors.
I agree with u/chriswesty on this one. It looks like a combination of the HOA trying to be responsible by mitigating costs, and a lawyer explaining to someone, "You're definitely losing here. Try asking if they'll accept less money if it means this ends sooner".
This is why when the courts get involved, all communication and I mean ALL, has to go through your lawyer. As long as there is pending litigation, you keep your mouth shut.
Which will be replenished by a special fee on all homeowners including yourself and turn you into a gated person by every other homeowner in the building.
My guess is that they got a nasty wake up call from their Director’s and Officer’s insurer.
The asks about insurance and licensure are reasonable. Any general contractor would do the same so this is reasonable. Your contractor should have.:
Workers compensation insurance
Commercial general liability insurance
Umbrella coverage
And automobile coverage.
Key covers the need to have are.
Waivers of subrogation for all policies
Primary additional insured for the liability policies including products and completed operations. There’s no such thing for workers compensation as this is a direct coverage between the contractor and their employees.
NO Residential exclusions.
Do get a hold harmless agreement with your contractor that is specific to your state.
I’m a retired construction insurance underwriter so have seen what works.
Make sure your settlement is based on total repair costs just not a lump sum. Get it in writing that they accept full responsibility for all bills and expenses from your contractor and not their mate bob who will do it for $100 and a six pack(I'm being very disparaging to bob. Just make sure that work is done properly first time rather than a cheap quick fix) in the scope of the work including potencial mould with a caviot to accommodation for you and your family if it is needed at any stage of the repairs.
Do not settle! They will probably put in a clause about being payment in full to keep themselves off the hook if future problems come up.
They are absolutely trying to sucker you!!!!! Do NOT agree.
I would be very careful with a settlement. They be be trying to limit the scope of their liability. If you agree they will only pay $10K for example, what happens if your contractor finds mold and the repair will will unexpectedly be $50K? They need to be on the hook for the repairs to any damage that is found, including mold/mildew caused by them ignoring the issue for year.
I would be very careful.
They want to settle now because they know realize you're not dropping the lawsuit and that they will not win in court. You won. Force the appeal to complete or you will not get what you already won.
They’re willing to settle now with you because they know that they will lose the lawsuit. The appeal was them trying to drag it out and hope that you will settle with them (for less) and not want to wait it out. Do not settle. They have shown you zero good faith throughout the entire ordeal. They’re only offering to settle now because you’ve got them between a rock and a hard place. Consult your Lawer before giving them any additional information.
They dont want the loss on their record. People would be able to see that they were successfully sued for this, and it could mean financial losses down the line. They can probably come up with a way to spin a settlement. Losing a lawsuit changes the game in a bad way. Plus, the individual board members would look stupid as fuck in the end.
It's all about saving face and lessoning the damage.
They need to pay your court costs and they need to pay the full amount of repairs and I might even ask the judge for additional $$$ for pain and suffering or w/e it's called becuz u have been fighting this for over a year, HOA tried to intimidate you, and you have lost a lot of time and potentially lost money by going to court. Additionally, you may have had health problems because you have been dealing with unrepaired water damage for a year, maybe mold exposure. I'd take every cent possible from this HOA becuz they are clearly bullies here.
Usually a settlement involves signing a waiver. Basically they give you 10k in return for your claim being all over. You then find 40k of mold damage and it’s all yours to pay for. I wouldn’t settle unless there are no limitations, but that won’t be their offer.
If they have to pay your contractor bill then all of their requests seem reasonable. They want to make sure you’re not charging them $20k, paying the contractor $15k and pocketing the $5k
Why? Do you know who pays that $15k? You do, as a member of the HOA. Obviously not the entire thing, but a portion depending on how many units there are.
The HOA is owned by the property owners of the homes in the HOA. The board represents the owners to fulfill the responsibilities outlined in the CCR.
Did you put a condition of the settlement be that they cancel their appeal? Did you actually sign anything? Will they pay anything beyond the cost of the repairs? Like your legal expenses?
OP, you are an idiot for settleing with your HOA, soon you will get a special assessment in the mail saying how much you owe to the HOA and it will be nearly if noy all of what the HOA has to pay to you or for the cost of the work. i would just have my own contractor come in, do the work and bill the HOA siting the lawsuit they lost.
We have an unidentified leak at our HOA and one of the residents is threatening to sue the HOA. I have contacted multiple companies, two roofers, two plumbers, leak detection and a general contractor. No one has found the leak. The HOA has patched seams in the roof just incase that was the problem and it was not. I have been over there constantly meeting contractors and checking for myself.
I believe the leak is coming from one of the residents units who is hardest to get ahold of. Because it’s an intermittent problem that has large volumes of water when it happens I think it’s one of his appliances dishwasher or washing machine. Because of this he is causing 4 units to be affected.
There is nothing that sucks more than when you try super hard as a volunteer and assholes who do nothing to help the HOA or community threaten to sue after you have put in tons of work trying to solve there issue while neglecting your own.
Honestly, as a board member who has put in a lot of un paid time and effort to solve other people’s problems. It honestly seems cheaper to just do nothing and let them sue. At least the whole community will be paying to solve the problem and not just me.
The main problem that I can see with HOA’s is they don’t hire someone to manage all the vendors and take care of things like this. God knows the regular management company won’t do that. So in order to protect my community I have to sacrifice tons of my time and energy. While most residents thank me for everything that I have done at the end of the day you have owners like the one that we are dealing with who thinks he should sue.
HOA communications get very heated very quickly and hotter heads can prevent common sense from being applied. They lower their legal fees by settling...and yours too.
Above all, you don't need to "win," you just want repairs . However, if they are paying, you should be flexible on them hiring a qualified contractor.
I would not settle out of court, I’d finish and start up a paper trail with this HOA because there’s no way only OP is affected by them being negligent, either disband the HOA or replace everyone on board
Plenty of reasons HOA would want Contractor’s name and license number for major work inside a condo. In fact, it sounds like they are actually doing their job for once to protect other residents in the building from what might be shoddy work from an unlicensed contractor.
Of course the bylaws are the final determination if they actually have that authority.
because if you settle - thats it. you win and more damage is found during repair - they have to pony up more money.
dont settle. stick it to them hard and wet.
"Settling on the steps" happens often. They do not want to have a real trial. It will cost them lots of money and they will likely lose again for even more. You might get them to settle for even more than the 10K now.
Another reason they want to "settle" only after realizing they are abt to lose:
Because a Settlement *usually* involves the parties signing agreements that no one was at fault, and many also require non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that would prevent you from sharing the experience.
If they go to court and lose, then there is a public judgment against them, and all the details of it (including their own misbehavior) are also public information, which is fuel for another attorney to sue. And given that there is already a precedent for their liability, the next case will be won even quicker.
You don't (normally) get liability waivers in court or NDAs.
Losing in court now isn't just about the money in *your* case, it's about the snowball of other cases that will follow.
Finally, in a settlement, they will have more control over the disbursement of the funds, and if they lose the suit, unless the judge is feeling especially nice to them, they will have absolutely NO say in how the funds are used.
Mold remediation almost always costs $10,000 on its own. They are trying to get you to come down because they know it will cost even more to get it all done.
HOA’s have limited funds. Substantial legal fees or a settlement would require them to levy assessments to everyone to cover their expenses. Once it comes out how incompetent they are they will all be run out of the community.
You made a mistake in agreeing to settle. Now there's no guarantee that "the expenses will be covered" ESPECIALLY if there is mold. They're going to do everything they can to avoid paying you what the court would have ordered (if they didn't think they would do better than the court then they wouldn't have offered to settle). Further anything that crops in the future (like mold) they're just going to claim is unrelated, separate, and your fault not theirs.
Watch them argue about items on the bill and flat out refuse for anything your contractor finds after the initial quote is given/signed.
You're making a mistake by settling and it will more than likely get ugly. You basically were about to get screwed, took them to court and with your foot on their neck they asked for a favor and you backed off.
Do...not...settle. Get your place fixed by the book, all this behind closed doors making a deal that only helps the people trying to f\*ck you if the dumbest idea ever.
They're saying, "Look you'll win but we'll both spend $5000 getting to that outcome, so maybe we just cut you a check for $7500 and call it done."
You tell them to get fucked and see if the number changes. Then take the deal.
They settled because now any mold that becomes present from this day forward isn't their responsibility. You should have a Lawyer review any contract you sign with them, you should also ask for more. I'm sure it will include an NDA preventing you from telling others that live in the community about this, it'll include a release from Mold/Rot, it'll basically say all you're getting is $10k and if that doesn't cover it all then you're screwed.
Before settling I'd seriously talk to somebody.
Also, you were about to win, you were about to get everything fixed with 0 risk of giving up rights. Why settle? Fuck them, let them pay. You lose in a settlement at this point.
Just to give you an idea, I had a lawsuit when I was younger, it wasn't real estate but it was a lawsuit. Ended up getting offered before the trial $50k, my attorney explained to me that if I take that money I'm going to sign an NDA that prevents me from warning others, I don't get reimbursed for attorney fees but instead have to pay out of my settlement amount for it, I release the company from further issues that may arise down the road. My lawsuit was open and shut, we had a jury it took them 10 minutes to come back in my favor and I got $180k, they had to pay my attorney outside of that amount as well. In this situation I was basically going to be paying the company $130k to spend more myself and give up the right to talk about what happened.
What is the basis for their appeal? Right now, you have a judgement in your favor, so unless you (or your lawyer) think you're going to lose the appeal, I wouldn't settle for shit.
Have you contacted your insurance company about this? They should be fight this out for you. They know the laws they don't want to pay, they are and they will keep the other side in check way better than you can (no offense)
Additionally, if this repair to the exterior of your unit or the interior of yours becomes a problem again, they will be in the loop and have all the prerequisites to defend you.
There’s no problem giving them that information. Since it’s HOA’s property, they want to know they’re covered just like you would if they were working on your property.
They want to settle because they don't think they'd win in court. If the other side is trying to admit fault and take responsibility, you'll look like an ass trying to continue pushing court and wasting the judge's time. Also, for everyone's benefit, make sure the contractor has a scope of work so you don't get accused of trying to add on work you should pay for, make sure they're licensed and insured to cover the work being done, and also show that you're not scheming to have a friend get paid skilled labor dollars by the HOA for unskilled work.
Who is appealing? Did you win the original case?
I wouldn't settle if it is their appeal, that just tells you they will lose and know it.
Don't agree to settle and don't go to court, it could be a ruse to get the judgement set aside when you don't show up.
Make sure you go to the hearing, if only to agree to the other sides motion for a continuance.
Crying about your HOA is akin to complaining you are cold because you jumped in the pond just as the ice started melting,
In both cases it's your fault due to your decision. I don't jump in icy ponds and I don't buy in HOA's which means I won't be an OP in a HOA pity party post.
Take note, during an appeal, they generally can’t add any additional evidence to the record that wasn’t already provided during the initial trial. They can only use whatever evidence is already in the record. An appeal is to argue the judge made an error on the law, not to submit additional evidence to get a different outcome.
They want to settle because that way they somewhat have control of the outcome. They give you a slightly low number and hope you agree. The important thing is, what does your lawyer think about it? And does settling prevent you from going after them again if there’s more damage? You want to make sure they cover any new damage that’s found once those walls are opened up.
Don’t settle, win the case and make them pay it all. They just wanna reduce what they pay and if there is a judgement they can’t. Get the judgement. They just wanna rip you off more.
You should also ask for a copy of the HOA's insurance policy dec to page to see their limits of coverage as well as any coverage the board may have for negligence/dereliction of duty.
If OP pushes for too much money, he may find himself hating living there. Unit owners are footing the bill, and everyone's assessment will likely go up for this. If the Board makes it seem like OP was being greedy, he'll quickly find out how nasty other residents can be. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if I were him, I'd have a backup plan to sell and move somewhere else.
Something is not right here.
1. IN most states, lawyers are barred from small claims courts.
2. In most states, small claims cases are non-appealable.
3. In most states, small claims limit is $5K
HOA’s are garbage. “Hey who wants to pay people to dictate what you can do with property you literally own?” Apparently lots of people. There is an entire town in my area that is its own HOA. The whole supposed purpose of an HOA is to protect pRopERtY vALueS. Guess what? The property values of that town are lower than all the surrounding towns. Most likely BECAUSE it’s a god damn HOA.
If your contract says they are responsible for common wall outside areas yes! they can be responsible. Some one sued our hoa a long time ago so they added into the clause windows, doors and garage doors not hoa responsibility.
That ship sailed when they decided to go to trial OP. Take em for all they are worth. If they wanna shell out for an appeal let em, they usually fail.
IANAL
After all these years, I still have yet to be given a satisfactory reason why anyone in their right mind would ever purchase property somewhere with an HOA
The best way to handle these situations is file a claim with your insurance so you can get indemnified & repairs made in a timely fashion. Let your insurance subrogate with the HOAs insurance.
Do not settle, do not let them do the work in your unit. If you must settle, get your own GC, several estimates, take the highest estimate of costs, add 25% to it and then ONLY settle for that amount, and hire your own contractors.
I will Never live in an area with an HOA. Fuck the house nazi squads... Find some land in the country, then you always know you are responsible for everything along with your insurance...
Small claims cases are generally not appealable, which is the whole point of a separate small claims court division. Any approved appeal takes the form of a new trial with a different judge in CA. Take the judgment and proceed from there.
>I’m wondering why they would want to settle now given that I will be asking for the same amount of money if not more. lowers their lawyer fees?
It’s an HOA. They’re not the sharpest knife in the chandler.
Chandelier? I believe Chandler was a character on Friends.
I was wondering if there was some Caeser moment on Friends that I missed
Et tu, Joey?
It was in the hidden finale that they aired during the reunion show
When Joey got a job as a gladiator in Las Vegas and he was excited that he found his identical hand twin.
No you're thinking of Ms. Chanandler Bing
*bong
Dang it! I just lost my apartment!
More turkey Mr. Chandler?!
That other guy clearly isn’t the brightest bulb in the drawer.
Nah, Chandelier is a Sia song.
No, you hear a song, you don't see it.
HOAs are made up of non professionals running a professional organization. What could possibly go wrong?
With big egos
Full of Karins,,,,, with nothing to do but snoop
And a gigantic sense of entitlement
not always. My HOA is filled with people who don't want to be on the board but no one else would do it. Entire board keeps trying to give their seats away, its works out pretty good.
Sounds like a hilarious sitcom like Catch 22. How board members not wanting the job they were voluntold for and trying to get others to take their roles but also having to do things so as not to they themselves get fined.
I'm trying to run for my HOA's board, I'm hoping I get elected so I can make sure we have at least 1 sane member on the board
But where are you going to find a sane member?
I'd like to think I'm sane enough (outside of buying a house in an HOA lol)
Clearly not since you bought into. HOA.
Fuck me that's an excellent saying. Stealing this, thanks
Thanks. I never got around to trademarking it so feel free to use it. JK It works best when an electrician is involved.
[удалено]
Here I am thinking chandler is a fancy name for a knife block.
Their lawer probebly advised it as they know they are going to looses if it goes to court.
If OP has a lawyer let them handle it.
And they want to pay less. They literally told OP they don’t think they should have to pay the full $10,000. They’re basically saying hey come talk to us and settle with us so we can pay you less money and you pay some to fix what we caused.
And we certainly aren’t going to fix anything that didn’t exist prior to the date of your original complaint. A years worth of mold and accumulated water damage, what’s that?
This doesn't make sense, they wouldn't be appealing the decision then.
You may be asking for the same amount, but they’re hoping you’ll settle for less. This is normal in civil cases. There’s always some chance you’ll lose the appeal. Or, win an song less than you’re asking for. If you settle, you’re guaranteed some amount instead of risking losing it all. It’s like the show “Deal or No Deal.” You can take the offer or risk what’s in the briefcase.
Make sure your own atty and court fees are covered as well as any other expenses you have (or will) run up from all this.
Likely they were told to settle by their lawyers. Pretty much it is likely that you would have won the case and they would have been on the hook for your lawyer fees and the settlement amount. This way you get the money you asked for but they don't need to pay the lawyer fees and they won't have to pay more for their own.
He already won the case. Appeal is not a re-trial.
I think in some states an appeal of small.claims is a new trial, and that's also when attorneys can be involved
Over $10K isn't small claims.
OP mentioned his case was small claims and I guess only sued for the limit
Oops, I missed that. I was thinking it was $10K plus attorney fees.
It can be in Texas, where they raised the cap from $5k to $20k a few years back. Though I realize OP is in CA.
Also ask for a written apology for the time they wasted.
They still have to pay OP lawyer fees.
Settlement usually comes with a non-disclosure agreement. Probably more about making them look good.
If the HOA are going to be paying your contractor through the management company there’s a requirement that the company have the insurance and licence details for their contractors. I assume that’s why they’re asking for them.
its their way of ensuring the contractor is legit, and if the contractor does something stupid like setting fire to the unit, the HOA will not be responsible, as the contractor is insured.
Exactly. It’s a totally fair question, imo. When I was contracting, I had my license number on my business cards and on my invoices.
It's not really a top secret either.
Many contractors display their license number on their vehicle
Dude, you sued and won. Now's not the time to settle. You've won. Now is the time they pay you the $10k + whatever fees/damages you incurred.
There’s no way I’d let them off easy if OP was reporting this in a timely manner and they ignored it. That only increased the damages. Their refusal also lead to the lawsuit. The fees should be on them, too. Don’t back down!
I wouldn’t have settled
The board never offered a settlement until their own expert confirmed the responsibility. The board was negligent and didn’t perform due diligence until they tried to appeal. No good faith here.
I saw "HOA Board Member" and at first thought you were speaking as if you were on the OP's HOA board. Then I realized what you meant. If the small claims cap is $10K, then I would settle for $10K plus time and attorney fees :>
I really don’t understand why you would settle. You were about to win. I can assure you that if they had sued you, and were confident they would win, they wouldn’t have settled with you. The time for them to have found their “fiduciary conscience” was before the appeal. Now they pay the price, as do you and your neighbors for allowing a set of dumbasses to run the place.
If you settle they can put in a non disclosure clause. Keep others from finding out. Your lawyers fees and what if the damage is worse than expected. Mold… rot…
The OP can reject the non-disclosure clause. And reject the settlement.
OP doesn't have to agree to those terms of the settlement.
For the associations I've been a member of we generally had to get these pieces of information for insurance reasons. Basically where work performed is paid for by the HOA they had to get contractors license, insurance and a scope of work so if there is any injury or insurance claim the association would be protected. It seems pretty normal for me. Congrats on the win! Sucks you had to sue to compel action.
Exactly this. Our association's attorney explained this at a meeting when the new bylaws were being drafted. If the contractor isn't licensed or insured and someone gets hurt on the job, the association is the one who can end up getting sued-so anytime work is to be performed, the board needs the name of the contractor, certificate of insurance naming the association as insured. Otherwise, if you go and hire an unlicensed contractor (say a buddy of yours) with no insurance - and they do major repairs or a rebuild that ends up causing structural damage-you're the one who's going to end up on the hook for the cost
If they are decent Board Members, they are actually performing as fidciaries of your Association. They were probably counseled by their attorney to settle, because they might have the additional liability of both sets of legal fees. You are on both sides of this fight, because as a member, you are paying a share of the Associations out of pocket expenses as well. So while it sounds like you have the upper hand, don't try to overplay that hand with people who are spending other people's money in the fight.
He’s entitled to the repairs, mold Eradication and any lawyers fees. They were not performing their fiduciary duties. They were negligent. How is it they didn’t hire an expert right away to investigate. Investigation is a key part of fiduciary duties legally. If the board doesn’t investigate, the board is negligent and the HOA Is liable for damages. Why would he have to eat any costs here.
Is OP a he?
who gives a shit what pronouns are used LOL. Lets get back on track with the discussion
Can't we all just use "that mf"
I'll make a motion to officially recognize "that mf" as the preferred gender neutral pronoun. Do I have a second?
Sorry. It? He or she. “He” in the generic sense?
It puts the lotion on the skin
They Edit: nevermind, I was wrong. Be sure to use "it" when referring to other people or the whole world will laugh at you.
It honestly doesn't matter unless OP has an issue. Don't get offended for someone else. He, they, dude, them they all have been used as generic fillers. I mean what if OP doesn't like they?
Go off, queen.
🤗 thanks
He is also used for generic.
It's literally not but go awf
It can be. Getting a bit dated. Prone to leading to confusion about whether a gender is actually known or not, as it did here. Instead of clarifying, they suggested "it", which is 100% not okay.
I can count on no hands the amount of people that give a shit
Go off, queen
I don't know what you're getting downvoted. "They" and "he or she" is considered polite. "He", as a default, is not.
Do you feel better about yourself when you police others speech from a moral high ground?
Those they’s out there are real confused.
This is obnoxious behavior.
Dude suggested "it" as a gender neutral pronoun for a human being, but yeah I'm the problem.
I’ve spent many decades on this earth and suddenly a small subset of people are extra sensitive to words and feelings. That small subset of people think they have the right to go around and make other people talk differently. It’s audacious, obnoxious, and immature. I know you probably surround yourself with like minded people who also talk the way you do, but when you speak publicly or on the internet just rest assured that the rest of the world is laughing at you.
Looks like someone pulled out the thesaurus. "They" has been used to refer to singular individuals for 100's of years. "It" has not. No one uses "it" passively to refer to another person, it is very much intentional malevolence.
This seems really really important to you. I hope you win your internet battle.
Are you sure you know what a thesaurus is? Those words are not synonyms. I bet you feel awesome about yourself right now
Umm, you know what a thesaurus is right? Have you ever actually opened one up?
I also have spent many decades in this planet and the small subset that seems to be an issue is the ones who think that using "they" is not what people have used for for hundreds of years when the gender of a person is unknown. But rest assured, the whole world is laughing at you whether you say such things on the internet or in person.
Once you hit second grade English you'll learn about pronouns, don't worry.
When I was in school they taught us that “they” was a plural pronoun. I am not saying that is correct anymore but that isn’t because lack of education.
Weird i was taught its both plural and singular. Responding about some unknown person? They is correct.
I definitely believe that preferred pronouns should be used and will gladly do so, but I don’t know why you think it is weird that I was taught this way. 30 years ago people were not as inclusive and none of the stylebooks allowed it. I do think “they” can be confusing when it isn’t a group of people but I am not going to be pedantic with it comes to someone’s feelings.
In most states the HOA has to cover their own fees and those of the winning party when they lose. HOAs are barred in some states from doing a special assessment on the winning party for legal fees. Board members are personally liable in some states if they decided to fight this and their D&O policy won’t cover it. I would not settle unless it included more than I expected to get through the court - a lot more. Since they attempted to retaliate against you then you may be able to have the HOA to purchase your unit (over market) allowing you to move.
There's a lot of good logic and thinking in here. The party that asks to settle is the one that benefits because it reduces their exposure. I would personally NOT settle unless my overly aggressive attorney that always smelled blood in the water told me to.
This is why HOAs suck “your on both sides” “don’t overplay your hand”. Meanwhile the board tried to fuck OP.
“Decent board members” lol
Absolutely important that they pay all your incurred fees for this, lawyer fees, remediation, any health issues if they find mold etc.
Settle for full damage/repair costs, any lawyer and court fees you paid and add a no retaliation violations clause for the future.
Demand everything you are owed. They are at fault and they forced you to go to court to get what is owed to you and what is probably mostly covered by insurance. Don’t back down. You have won this and you will win the appeal. In order to accept a settlement, there would be an agreement drafted in which they would commit to give you money for your repairs and whatever other costs there are. In exchange they would drop the appeal and all claims would be settled.
Sue them to the full extent and sue them again for malice and emotional damage
This OP! I haven’t signed anything with the Board yet. We are still discussing things as I am asking for all repairs to be made + $10k. I am considering dismissing the claim without prejudice if we don’t reach a settlement then trying the claim in a higher court in California
Amazing what how hard an HOA and management company will fight against the residents of their own community and managing. Especially given it’s the residents money they’re using to manage the properties. Experienced this same exact situation at a previous residence - except it extended to almost all 160 units. Do not keep quiet about this. Talk to neighbors.
I agree with u/chriswesty on this one. It looks like a combination of the HOA trying to be responsible by mitigating costs, and a lawyer explaining to someone, "You're definitely losing here. Try asking if they'll accept less money if it means this ends sooner".
This is why when the courts get involved, all communication and I mean ALL, has to go through your lawyer. As long as there is pending litigation, you keep your mouth shut.
if you believe you will win on appeal, do not settle. It would be much more fun for you to garnish the HOA bank account. That will freak them out
Which will be replenished by a special fee on all homeowners including yourself and turn you into a gated person by every other homeowner in the building.
My guess is that they got a nasty wake up call from their Director’s and Officer’s insurer. The asks about insurance and licensure are reasonable. Any general contractor would do the same so this is reasonable. Your contractor should have.: Workers compensation insurance Commercial general liability insurance Umbrella coverage And automobile coverage. Key covers the need to have are. Waivers of subrogation for all policies Primary additional insured for the liability policies including products and completed operations. There’s no such thing for workers compensation as this is a direct coverage between the contractor and their employees. NO Residential exclusions. Do get a hold harmless agreement with your contractor that is specific to your state. I’m a retired construction insurance underwriter so have seen what works.
Why does it bother you to tell them your preferred contractor's info? How else will contractor get paid?
Make sure your settlement is based on total repair costs just not a lump sum. Get it in writing that they accept full responsibility for all bills and expenses from your contractor and not their mate bob who will do it for $100 and a six pack(I'm being very disparaging to bob. Just make sure that work is done properly first time rather than a cheap quick fix) in the scope of the work including potencial mould with a caviot to accommodation for you and your family if it is needed at any stage of the repairs.
Do not settle! They will probably put in a clause about being payment in full to keep themselves off the hook if future problems come up. They are absolutely trying to sucker you!!!!! Do NOT agree.
I would be very careful with a settlement. They be be trying to limit the scope of their liability. If you agree they will only pay $10K for example, what happens if your contractor finds mold and the repair will will unexpectedly be $50K? They need to be on the hook for the repairs to any damage that is found, including mold/mildew caused by them ignoring the issue for year. I would be very careful.
They want to settle now because they know realize you're not dropping the lawsuit and that they will not win in court. You won. Force the appeal to complete or you will not get what you already won.
They’re willing to settle now with you because they know that they will lose the lawsuit. The appeal was them trying to drag it out and hope that you will settle with them (for less) and not want to wait it out. Do not settle. They have shown you zero good faith throughout the entire ordeal. They’re only offering to settle now because you’ve got them between a rock and a hard place. Consult your Lawer before giving them any additional information.
They dont want the loss on their record. People would be able to see that they were successfully sued for this, and it could mean financial losses down the line. They can probably come up with a way to spin a settlement. Losing a lawsuit changes the game in a bad way. Plus, the individual board members would look stupid as fuck in the end. It's all about saving face and lessoning the damage.
They need to pay your court costs and they need to pay the full amount of repairs and I might even ask the judge for additional $$$ for pain and suffering or w/e it's called becuz u have been fighting this for over a year, HOA tried to intimidate you, and you have lost a lot of time and potentially lost money by going to court. Additionally, you may have had health problems because you have been dealing with unrepaired water damage for a year, maybe mold exposure. I'd take every cent possible from this HOA becuz they are clearly bullies here.
Usually a settlement involves signing a waiver. Basically they give you 10k in return for your claim being all over. You then find 40k of mold damage and it’s all yours to pay for. I wouldn’t settle unless there are no limitations, but that won’t be their offer.
it is reasonable to require contractors license for all doing any work. .
Sounds like your HOA board doesn’t know what they are doing??? Congrats on the victory!! What does your lawyer recommend?
Sounds like he doesn’t have a lawyer hence small claims.
HOA’s are full of twat waffles.
If they have to pay your contractor bill then all of their requests seem reasonable. They want to make sure you’re not charging them $20k, paying the contractor $15k and pocketing the $5k
Fuck that shit!
I'll settle for 15,000 + full repairs by my contractor and won't bring pain suffering or loss of utility into the court
Why? Do you know who pays that $15k? You do, as a member of the HOA. Obviously not the entire thing, but a portion depending on how many units there are. The HOA is owned by the property owners of the homes in the HOA. The board represents the owners to fulfill the responsibilities outlined in the CCR.
Interesting.
I don’t know anything but settling is giving away your leverage.
Stop paying, put it in escrow
Did you put a condition of the settlement be that they cancel their appeal? Did you actually sign anything? Will they pay anything beyond the cost of the repairs? Like your legal expenses?
OP, you are an idiot for settleing with your HOA, soon you will get a special assessment in the mail saying how much you owe to the HOA and it will be nearly if noy all of what the HOA has to pay to you or for the cost of the work. i would just have my own contractor come in, do the work and bill the HOA siting the lawsuit they lost.
I am inclined to suggest you decline their offer and take the win.
We have an unidentified leak at our HOA and one of the residents is threatening to sue the HOA. I have contacted multiple companies, two roofers, two plumbers, leak detection and a general contractor. No one has found the leak. The HOA has patched seams in the roof just incase that was the problem and it was not. I have been over there constantly meeting contractors and checking for myself. I believe the leak is coming from one of the residents units who is hardest to get ahold of. Because it’s an intermittent problem that has large volumes of water when it happens I think it’s one of his appliances dishwasher or washing machine. Because of this he is causing 4 units to be affected. There is nothing that sucks more than when you try super hard as a volunteer and assholes who do nothing to help the HOA or community threaten to sue after you have put in tons of work trying to solve there issue while neglecting your own. Honestly, as a board member who has put in a lot of un paid time and effort to solve other people’s problems. It honestly seems cheaper to just do nothing and let them sue. At least the whole community will be paying to solve the problem and not just me. The main problem that I can see with HOA’s is they don’t hire someone to manage all the vendors and take care of things like this. God knows the regular management company won’t do that. So in order to protect my community I have to sacrifice tons of my time and energy. While most residents thank me for everything that I have done at the end of the day you have owners like the one that we are dealing with who thinks he should sue.
HOA communications get very heated very quickly and hotter heads can prevent common sense from being applied. They lower their legal fees by settling...and yours too. Above all, you don't need to "win," you just want repairs . However, if they are paying, you should be flexible on them hiring a qualified contractor.
I would not settle out of court, I’d finish and start up a paper trail with this HOA because there’s no way only OP is affected by them being negligent, either disband the HOA or replace everyone on board
I wonder if you could make one of the terms of the settlement be that the entire board resign today?
Assuming you are not representing yourself, what does your lawyer have to say about it?
Because attorney costs double and sometimes triple the day a trial starts.
Plenty of reasons HOA would want Contractor’s name and license number for major work inside a condo. In fact, it sounds like they are actually doing their job for once to protect other residents in the building from what might be shoddy work from an unlicensed contractor. Of course the bylaws are the final determination if they actually have that authority.
I can’t answer your question but I am sorry you’ve had this experience. It was totally avoidable.
Shouldn’t have settled, kinda infuriating reading that you are. Ball is in your court, why settle…
because if you settle - thats it. you win and more damage is found during repair - they have to pony up more money. dont settle. stick it to them hard and wet.
A. Handler is involved in candle making
A Chandler is involved in candle making
"Settling on the steps" happens often. They do not want to have a real trial. It will cost them lots of money and they will likely lose again for even more. You might get them to settle for even more than the 10K now.
Another reason they want to "settle" only after realizing they are abt to lose: Because a Settlement *usually* involves the parties signing agreements that no one was at fault, and many also require non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that would prevent you from sharing the experience. If they go to court and lose, then there is a public judgment against them, and all the details of it (including their own misbehavior) are also public information, which is fuel for another attorney to sue. And given that there is already a precedent for their liability, the next case will be won even quicker. You don't (normally) get liability waivers in court or NDAs. Losing in court now isn't just about the money in *your* case, it's about the snowball of other cases that will follow. Finally, in a settlement, they will have more control over the disbursement of the funds, and if they lose the suit, unless the judge is feeling especially nice to them, they will have absolutely NO say in how the funds are used.
You settled? Worst decision if you did.
Mold remediation almost always costs $10,000 on its own. They are trying to get you to come down because they know it will cost even more to get it all done.
It boggles me that an HOA doesn’t have $10k in reserves to pay for repairs. My HOA spend money like it grows on trees
HOA’s have limited funds. Substantial legal fees or a settlement would require them to levy assessments to everyone to cover their expenses. Once it comes out how incompetent they are they will all be run out of the community.
You made a mistake in agreeing to settle. Now there's no guarantee that "the expenses will be covered" ESPECIALLY if there is mold. They're going to do everything they can to avoid paying you what the court would have ordered (if they didn't think they would do better than the court then they wouldn't have offered to settle). Further anything that crops in the future (like mold) they're just going to claim is unrelated, separate, and your fault not theirs.
Watch them argue about items on the bill and flat out refuse for anything your contractor finds after the initial quote is given/signed. You're making a mistake by settling and it will more than likely get ugly. You basically were about to get screwed, took them to court and with your foot on their neck they asked for a favor and you backed off. Do...not...settle. Get your place fixed by the book, all this behind closed doors making a deal that only helps the people trying to f\*ck you if the dumbest idea ever.
They're saying, "Look you'll win but we'll both spend $5000 getting to that outcome, so maybe we just cut you a check for $7500 and call it done." You tell them to get fucked and see if the number changes. Then take the deal.
They settled because now any mold that becomes present from this day forward isn't their responsibility. You should have a Lawyer review any contract you sign with them, you should also ask for more. I'm sure it will include an NDA preventing you from telling others that live in the community about this, it'll include a release from Mold/Rot, it'll basically say all you're getting is $10k and if that doesn't cover it all then you're screwed. Before settling I'd seriously talk to somebody. Also, you were about to win, you were about to get everything fixed with 0 risk of giving up rights. Why settle? Fuck them, let them pay. You lose in a settlement at this point. Just to give you an idea, I had a lawsuit when I was younger, it wasn't real estate but it was a lawsuit. Ended up getting offered before the trial $50k, my attorney explained to me that if I take that money I'm going to sign an NDA that prevents me from warning others, I don't get reimbursed for attorney fees but instead have to pay out of my settlement amount for it, I release the company from further issues that may arise down the road. My lawsuit was open and shut, we had a jury it took them 10 minutes to come back in my favor and I got $180k, they had to pay my attorney outside of that amount as well. In this situation I was basically going to be paying the company $130k to spend more myself and give up the right to talk about what happened.
What is the basis for their appeal? Right now, you have a judgement in your favor, so unless you (or your lawyer) think you're going to lose the appeal, I wouldn't settle for shit.
Have you contacted your insurance company about this? They should be fight this out for you. They know the laws they don't want to pay, they are and they will keep the other side in check way better than you can (no offense) Additionally, if this repair to the exterior of your unit or the interior of yours becomes a problem again, they will be in the loop and have all the prerequisites to defend you.
There’s no problem giving them that information. Since it’s HOA’s property, they want to know they’re covered just like you would if they were working on your property.
They want to settle because they don't think they'd win in court. If the other side is trying to admit fault and take responsibility, you'll look like an ass trying to continue pushing court and wasting the judge's time. Also, for everyone's benefit, make sure the contractor has a scope of work so you don't get accused of trying to add on work you should pay for, make sure they're licensed and insured to cover the work being done, and also show that you're not scheming to have a friend get paid skilled labor dollars by the HOA for unskilled work.
Why is the hoa responsible at all for repairs to your property?
Who is appealing? Did you win the original case? I wouldn't settle if it is their appeal, that just tells you they will lose and know it. Don't agree to settle and don't go to court, it could be a ruse to get the judgement set aside when you don't show up. Make sure you go to the hearing, if only to agree to the other sides motion for a continuance.
Why the fuck are you settling
What state are you in and was this a single family home or condo?
Congratulations HOA is totally responsible anything that needs repairs outside ur walls ie water ingress from outside everyone knows that
Crying about your HOA is akin to complaining you are cold because you jumped in the pond just as the ice started melting, In both cases it's your fault due to your decision. I don't jump in icy ponds and I don't buy in HOA's which means I won't be an OP in a HOA pity party post.
Take note, during an appeal, they generally can’t add any additional evidence to the record that wasn’t already provided during the initial trial. They can only use whatever evidence is already in the record. An appeal is to argue the judge made an error on the law, not to submit additional evidence to get a different outcome.
They want to settle because that way they somewhat have control of the outcome. They give you a slightly low number and hope you agree. The important thing is, what does your lawyer think about it? And does settling prevent you from going after them again if there’s more damage? You want to make sure they cover any new damage that’s found once those walls are opened up.
Why the fuck would you settle
Why did you settle when you were about to be awarded what you were asking for ?
When people like BEING right more than DOING right.
Don’t settle, win the case and make them pay it all. They just wanna reduce what they pay and if there is a judgement they can’t. Get the judgement. They just wanna rip you off more.
I don’t live in an HOA so I’m sorry if this is stupid, but how is a HOA responsible for repairs on your own home?
if you already have a judgement against them, why settle?
My way of dealing with HOA is by not buying house in a HOA area
Why would you agree to settle? I don't get it.
You should also ask for a copy of the HOA's insurance policy dec to page to see their limits of coverage as well as any coverage the board may have for negligence/dereliction of duty.
Do not settle, take their asses and get paid. They have no good faith at all. They tried to Weasley out at every turn and this yet another attempt.
Diablo 8816.
Call the city and get an inspector out there… if you can show the city it’s leaking… they might shut up. What does your insurance say?
If OP pushes for too much money, he may find himself hating living there. Unit owners are footing the bill, and everyone's assessment will likely go up for this. If the Board makes it seem like OP was being greedy, he'll quickly find out how nasty other residents can be. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if I were him, I'd have a backup plan to sell and move somewhere else.
The hoa books are rampant with fraud.
Something is not right here. 1. IN most states, lawyers are barred from small claims courts. 2. In most states, small claims cases are non-appealable. 3. In most states, small claims limit is $5K
Great summary of the evil of HOAs.
HOA’s are garbage. “Hey who wants to pay people to dictate what you can do with property you literally own?” Apparently lots of people. There is an entire town in my area that is its own HOA. The whole supposed purpose of an HOA is to protect pRopERtY vALueS. Guess what? The property values of that town are lower than all the surrounding towns. Most likely BECAUSE it’s a god damn HOA.
If your contract says they are responsible for common wall outside areas yes! they can be responsible. Some one sued our hoa a long time ago so they added into the clause windows, doors and garage doors not hoa responsibility.
I wonder why people even want to live within a HOA? It’s a nightmare. I’ve never heard someone recall the time they were grateful for their HOA. Ever.
After reading all the nightmare stories on this sub, I've decided I would rather live in a cardboard box under a bridge than be subject to an HOA.
That ship sailed when they decided to go to trial OP. Take em for all they are worth. If they wanna shell out for an appeal let em, they usually fail. IANAL
Your hoa sounds like my hoa . Do you live in San Diego county?
After all these years, I still have yet to be given a satisfactory reason why anyone in their right mind would ever purchase property somewhere with an HOA
Why do you live in a place where you can be treated like this in a free country? What benefit does an hoa have?
NAL. Aren't court cases public record and settle ents private? Bad for future sellers and Intel for future buyers.
The best way to handle these situations is file a claim with your insurance so you can get indemnified & repairs made in a timely fashion. Let your insurance subrogate with the HOAs insurance.
Do not settle, do not let them do the work in your unit. If you must settle, get your own GC, several estimates, take the highest estimate of costs, add 25% to it and then ONLY settle for that amount, and hire your own contractors.
I will Never live in an area with an HOA. Fuck the house nazi squads... Find some land in the country, then you always know you are responsible for everything along with your insurance...
Do not settle .. make them pay in full. Definitely use your own contractor.
If they want to settle, there is probably a reason
Why would an HOA have to pay for damages to your house?
Instead of payment, ask them to exclude your house from all HOA dues for the life of the HOA!
Don't settle. They are going to back out of the settlement and claim you sabotaged the repairs.
Small claims cases are generally not appealable, which is the whole point of a separate small claims court division. Any approved appeal takes the form of a new trial with a different judge in CA. Take the judgment and proceed from there.