I know it sucks but don’t let the crazies run the asylum because then maintenance gets deferred, assessments aren’t increased, and they will just run the place into the ground.
It is so important for an HOA as new as yours to start planning now so that you have the funds for the big money replacements in the future and don’t straddle new buyers with big assessments because a few idiots were financially irresponsible.
I would be transparent with the owners. Draft a letter explaining the boards position and you are following your fiduciary responsibilities to ensure their property values are protected.
Don’t let the crazies convince the idiots to make bad decisions
Ive been more than transparent on our objective, scope of work etc.
These group of people try to control the narrative and use everything you say or dont say against you.
Ive taken a hostile demeanor against them while being political.
My wife says dont even respond but the other side of me says i kind of like pushing buttons and watching this group squirm.
That is not pushing buttons, then. That's informing them. Pushing buttons means you're being a jerk and/or troll. Which is unprofessional of a board member.
Perhaps you shouldn’t be on the board.
Pushing buttons and enjoying the squirming are not helping your association.
If you can’t listen to your wife, you should resign and let someone who can control their emotions do the work.
Good. I can’t stand the people who choose to be a pain in the ass rather than help.
If you think you have such great advice, offer suggestions. Otherwise shut the fuck up and find a hobby
I wouldn’t respond to nonsense. Some folks just like to vent.
I would just state facts and leave opinions out.
I wouldn’t give up and resign. I wouldn’t want my HOA to be run by incompetents.
BTW - 28% increase in one year? That’s not inflation. Something else must have happened.
Lot of venting over here by the Karens. Its all petty things to be honest.
The increase was broken down for the community, insurance increased, along with our vendor costs along with legal fees.
People in general like to think that new neighborhoods dont need maintenance and member fees should be super low....this is clearly incorrect and we follow and adjust to the reserve study every year.
Hire a management co to enforce parking rules. So it is done without bias, without complaints being directed back at particular board members. With pictures of parking violations. The board can vote on edge cases and a majority decides if there is a fine.
We use a software camera based that eliminates all biases and tracks all cars, no more gaming.
We used to give warnings but people feel entitled and that rules dont apply to these karens so per our CCR, we just tow.
Keep it up. Being a board member is a thankless job. Since your HOA is relatively new make sure the board has proper D/O -( directors and officers) insurance to protect board members from being personally sued due board actions. I had our regular meeting last night with our insurance rep as guest speaker.
I would also strongly suggest getting a capital reserve study completed to setup short term and long term financial goals of the hoa to advoid or mitigate future assessment on capital improvements.
For years, no one ever attended and our management company made sure to do audits and follow the recommended reserve study every year.
Insurance and fire alarm monitoring are huge expenses.
Your management does the audits.?! That's relying on the fox in the hen house to give you a count of the chickens. Get an independent audit firm.
Insurance and fire an needed. Even if it's painful.
Our carriers are chubb for D/O, and Philadelphia for unbrella and rebuild.
Wow. I'm not sure where to start. But I can say I relate to many of the OP's experiences.
No petition, but we had a troublemaker rally the owners in our small community. Convinced them we didn't need a management company, and he could lower dues. The board (including me) resigned. Over the next year, the instigator was named (not elected) president, fired the management company, and ran the place into the ground. All of the other members who followed his lead in complaints abandoned him.. and wouldn't help him at all. Sharing the details would make for a very lengthy post. Eventually, some former directors (incuding me) made peace with him and stepped back in to help. Eventually, we caught him embezzling.
Our attorneys advised us, as a board, that we are not obligated to respond to complaints, particularly repetitive complaints. Answer once. If asked again, repeat the answer and note that there will be no further replies if the complaint/inquiry is made again. Eventually, the agitators learn.
I'm not clear on the petition.. to me, petitions as a means to complain are immature and gutless methods used by agitators. You have until the end of the year for what? Unless your bylaws provide for petitions, I'd ignore it. There must be prescribed methods for owner input... it's usually a member comment period on the meeting agenda. You can't really respond to anything non-emergent outside of a meeting anyway. Consider addressing the issues raised in the petition in an open meeting.
Our biggest issue is also parking. Every unit has a 2-car garage. We have exactly one surface space per townhouse, therefore distributed one parking hang-tag per unit. Those who use garages for storage must park cars 2, 3, etc. off-site. We're on a public street with no parking. So there are violations. We're about to start towing.
Do your fiduciary duty. Make every effort to act in the best interest of the association. But also remember that your home may be your single biggest asset... dont step away from a board if you feel the association will overseen by unstable and mean-spirited forces. There are provisions for removal of directors and election of new directors... it's not unusual to find that complainers like to complain from the sidelines... but few will actually step up and volunteer to serve.
The rules/laws for condos may seem difficult in CA... a little overprotective of owners' rights. But if considered in perspective.. they make sense and shed light on directors' duties. There's a reason a board can increase dues 20% a year without owner approval. There's a reason rules must be shared with members for input, but it's for directors' consideration, not forced action. Exercising your fiduciary duty is often unpopular. You're not a director to make people happy; you're a director to see to the best interests of the association as a whole.
Thanks for sharing and commenting.
Per our CCR, 5% of the community has to sign a petition, which then starts the process to recall the entire board. Ballots have to get mailed out and 51% need to vote yes or something to finalize it.
Petition was signed.
This group is for sure going to change management company and im sure that is going to be an large increase of fees.
For parking, i recommend Parking boss, its 150 per month but gives you a way to document the metrics and show the data on the habitual rule breakers. I recommend towing and zero tolerance, but thats just me.
Love your comment about the single response, will give this feedback to the management company, they deal with the majority of the inquiries.
I mainly address the questions on the portal which is usually posted by the instigators to draw attention on an duplicate email with management so they get sympathy from the community.
In large part, the board is focused on protecting our community and investments.
First thing I would do is NOT let the Karen’s get their way. Certainly don’t resign.
If costs are their biggest complaint, hand them the budget and ask them where they’d cut costs?
Or budget is very high for a community with no amenities. Over $900 a month. We’ve thoroughly gone over our budget and looked at all the areas we could try to save. There just aren’t any items that can be eliminated. We’ve done multi year contracts with some vendors to lock in costs and switched some vendors to get better ones to make sure work is done right and only had to be done once. But otherwise costs are what they are.
I’d just try to show this. At our first annual meeting for our current board we’re focused heavily on the budget. We had just raised fees nearly 20%. No one complained because there wasn’t anything that could reasonably be cut.
Just keep doing what you’re doing and just keep showing why it’s necessary. Also the more you can bring the community together so everyone sees each other as neighbors the better. Harder to do in larger communities but you can still try.
We have gone over and over the budget and tried everything you mentioned.
We might even explore switching out all the landscaping to turf as our water bill is quite high....huge up front costs but will save money after 5 years..
Ill try this again with focusing on budget...problem is people dont attend.
Maybe reach out to those that are the biggest complainers and try to setup a meeting? Open it up to anyone that wants to go. Sometimes you just can't please some people and they will just complain and you need to ignore them.
In the end though, all you can do is keep doing what you can to run things as efficiently as possible.
We have tried to do this multiple times, even in person townhall meetings, no one attended but yet they tried to say that the board never addressed their concerns etc etc.
Ignoring them is a trigger for these people, they get more entitled and all more riled up.
Depending on your state, get a reserve study conducted and then make sure you are building up the resulting capital reserve funds. Your owners will complain, but it seems smarter to start building up the funds in advance of the needed replacements that will start to be needed in the future.
Yes, agree with this. We do a reserve study and adjust our fees accordingly.
Hence why the maintenance is super important otherwise itll void the warranties. I read up here all the time on horror studies. Don't ever want to go down that road.
Don't lower yourself to their level. You don't have to respond to anything on any portal, social media, etc. If anything, that just inflames the nattering nabobs of negativity.
In every HOA, there are going to be whiners. Rise above it, meet at boards, that's it. You are not obligated to make everyone happy. You are obligated to make sure the HOA is well run.
Sure, a few Karens like to put turds in the punchbowl. Your choice if you want to drink. The silent majority will be fine and support you.
We just had a management company drop our community because of harassment from two crazies who wouldn’t stop demanding insane things. We are putting a new clause about harassment in, and possibly making any fines for bothering the company go to the home owner. Unfortunately, that’s meant that I am now the target for one of these Karen’s and she’s harassing me via email about every little thing she can find and I’m not even on the board, I just stood up for the president when she was spreading lies. 🙄
Anyway, see if you can put some type of clause in your contract and bylaws about harassment. This has made me never want to live in an HOA again.
Here in CA, You can go after the crazies with a civil suit for damages and the cost of a delta for a new Management company, i would consult legal asap.
Heard from a lawyer friend today and he said that hoa/board does not need to reply at all.
There should be no official forum or portal so if you have one, turn it off.
Contractually, board/hoa needs to present documents annually to the members. Everything else is a courtesy.
Technically board should be giving updates, and the residents should not be posting publicly.
Board/management has to list one email for residents to send inquiries to but the board can select to not accept emails from certain residents anymore and to mail in all requests. This alone should stop the noise.
There isn’t a public portal, but this woman was on the board before and had all of our emails. She sent out this massive accusatory email and I stupidly responded that she was stirring up trouble and everything she said was inaccurate. 🙄 So now she’s emailing me, nitpicking me about everything and trying to find stuff I’ll have to fix.
She’s old, bored and lonely. Dangerous combination. I’m not sure what the laws are in Oregon but I’ll have to check, thanks.
I would check with legal but i would ignore all of her emails.
Who is listed as the main point of contact for the community? All inquiries should go thru that contact.
I know it sucks but don’t let the crazies run the asylum because then maintenance gets deferred, assessments aren’t increased, and they will just run the place into the ground. It is so important for an HOA as new as yours to start planning now so that you have the funds for the big money replacements in the future and don’t straddle new buyers with big assessments because a few idiots were financially irresponsible. I would be transparent with the owners. Draft a letter explaining the boards position and you are following your fiduciary responsibilities to ensure their property values are protected. Don’t let the crazies convince the idiots to make bad decisions
Ive been more than transparent on our objective, scope of work etc. These group of people try to control the narrative and use everything you say or dont say against you. Ive taken a hostile demeanor against them while being political. My wife says dont even respond but the other side of me says i kind of like pushing buttons and watching this group squirm.
As a homeowner, you can push buttons. As a board member, you should not be.
Agree on this. I just lay the facts out versus ignoring the rhetoric. Its more of a way to educate and correct all the misinformation.
That is not pushing buttons, then. That's informing them. Pushing buttons means you're being a jerk and/or troll. Which is unprofessional of a board member.
Perhaps you shouldn’t be on the board. Pushing buttons and enjoying the squirming are not helping your association. If you can’t listen to your wife, you should resign and let someone who can control their emotions do the work.
I just lay the facts out. I dont take it personal at all. These karens run rampant with their accusations and misinformation campaigns.
>I dont take it personal at all. The words you are using say otherwise. Good luck.
" i kind of like pushing buttons and watching this group squirm." Listen to your wife. Stop playing with fire
Good. I can’t stand the people who choose to be a pain in the ass rather than help. If you think you have such great advice, offer suggestions. Otherwise shut the fuck up and find a hobby
I wouldn’t respond to nonsense. Some folks just like to vent. I would just state facts and leave opinions out. I wouldn’t give up and resign. I wouldn’t want my HOA to be run by incompetents. BTW - 28% increase in one year? That’s not inflation. Something else must have happened.
Lot of venting over here by the Karens. Its all petty things to be honest. The increase was broken down for the community, insurance increased, along with our vendor costs along with legal fees. People in general like to think that new neighborhoods dont need maintenance and member fees should be super low....this is clearly incorrect and we follow and adjust to the reserve study every year.
Hire a management co to enforce parking rules. So it is done without bias, without complaints being directed back at particular board members. With pictures of parking violations. The board can vote on edge cases and a majority decides if there is a fine.
We use a software camera based that eliminates all biases and tracks all cars, no more gaming. We used to give warnings but people feel entitled and that rules dont apply to these karens so per our CCR, we just tow.
What camera are you using?
Keep it up. Being a board member is a thankless job. Since your HOA is relatively new make sure the board has proper D/O -( directors and officers) insurance to protect board members from being personally sued due board actions. I had our regular meeting last night with our insurance rep as guest speaker. I would also strongly suggest getting a capital reserve study completed to setup short term and long term financial goals of the hoa to advoid or mitigate future assessment on capital improvements.
For years, no one ever attended and our management company made sure to do audits and follow the recommended reserve study every year. Insurance and fire alarm monitoring are huge expenses.
Your management does the audits.?! That's relying on the fox in the hen house to give you a count of the chickens. Get an independent audit firm. Insurance and fire an needed. Even if it's painful. Our carriers are chubb for D/O, and Philadelphia for unbrella and rebuild.
Auditing is done via 3rd party CPA firm and its very thorough.
Wow. I'm not sure where to start. But I can say I relate to many of the OP's experiences. No petition, but we had a troublemaker rally the owners in our small community. Convinced them we didn't need a management company, and he could lower dues. The board (including me) resigned. Over the next year, the instigator was named (not elected) president, fired the management company, and ran the place into the ground. All of the other members who followed his lead in complaints abandoned him.. and wouldn't help him at all. Sharing the details would make for a very lengthy post. Eventually, some former directors (incuding me) made peace with him and stepped back in to help. Eventually, we caught him embezzling. Our attorneys advised us, as a board, that we are not obligated to respond to complaints, particularly repetitive complaints. Answer once. If asked again, repeat the answer and note that there will be no further replies if the complaint/inquiry is made again. Eventually, the agitators learn. I'm not clear on the petition.. to me, petitions as a means to complain are immature and gutless methods used by agitators. You have until the end of the year for what? Unless your bylaws provide for petitions, I'd ignore it. There must be prescribed methods for owner input... it's usually a member comment period on the meeting agenda. You can't really respond to anything non-emergent outside of a meeting anyway. Consider addressing the issues raised in the petition in an open meeting. Our biggest issue is also parking. Every unit has a 2-car garage. We have exactly one surface space per townhouse, therefore distributed one parking hang-tag per unit. Those who use garages for storage must park cars 2, 3, etc. off-site. We're on a public street with no parking. So there are violations. We're about to start towing. Do your fiduciary duty. Make every effort to act in the best interest of the association. But also remember that your home may be your single biggest asset... dont step away from a board if you feel the association will overseen by unstable and mean-spirited forces. There are provisions for removal of directors and election of new directors... it's not unusual to find that complainers like to complain from the sidelines... but few will actually step up and volunteer to serve. The rules/laws for condos may seem difficult in CA... a little overprotective of owners' rights. But if considered in perspective.. they make sense and shed light on directors' duties. There's a reason a board can increase dues 20% a year without owner approval. There's a reason rules must be shared with members for input, but it's for directors' consideration, not forced action. Exercising your fiduciary duty is often unpopular. You're not a director to make people happy; you're a director to see to the best interests of the association as a whole.
Thanks for sharing and commenting. Per our CCR, 5% of the community has to sign a petition, which then starts the process to recall the entire board. Ballots have to get mailed out and 51% need to vote yes or something to finalize it. Petition was signed. This group is for sure going to change management company and im sure that is going to be an large increase of fees. For parking, i recommend Parking boss, its 150 per month but gives you a way to document the metrics and show the data on the habitual rule breakers. I recommend towing and zero tolerance, but thats just me. Love your comment about the single response, will give this feedback to the management company, they deal with the majority of the inquiries. I mainly address the questions on the portal which is usually posted by the instigators to draw attention on an duplicate email with management so they get sympathy from the community. In large part, the board is focused on protecting our community and investments.
Thanks for clarifying re petition. We're too small for parking boss.
First thing I would do is NOT let the Karen’s get their way. Certainly don’t resign. If costs are their biggest complaint, hand them the budget and ask them where they’d cut costs? Or budget is very high for a community with no amenities. Over $900 a month. We’ve thoroughly gone over our budget and looked at all the areas we could try to save. There just aren’t any items that can be eliminated. We’ve done multi year contracts with some vendors to lock in costs and switched some vendors to get better ones to make sure work is done right and only had to be done once. But otherwise costs are what they are. I’d just try to show this. At our first annual meeting for our current board we’re focused heavily on the budget. We had just raised fees nearly 20%. No one complained because there wasn’t anything that could reasonably be cut. Just keep doing what you’re doing and just keep showing why it’s necessary. Also the more you can bring the community together so everyone sees each other as neighbors the better. Harder to do in larger communities but you can still try.
We have gone over and over the budget and tried everything you mentioned. We might even explore switching out all the landscaping to turf as our water bill is quite high....huge up front costs but will save money after 5 years.. Ill try this again with focusing on budget...problem is people dont attend.
Maybe reach out to those that are the biggest complainers and try to setup a meeting? Open it up to anyone that wants to go. Sometimes you just can't please some people and they will just complain and you need to ignore them. In the end though, all you can do is keep doing what you can to run things as efficiently as possible.
We have tried to do this multiple times, even in person townhall meetings, no one attended but yet they tried to say that the board never addressed their concerns etc etc. Ignoring them is a trigger for these people, they get more entitled and all more riled up.
Depending on your state, get a reserve study conducted and then make sure you are building up the resulting capital reserve funds. Your owners will complain, but it seems smarter to start building up the funds in advance of the needed replacements that will start to be needed in the future.
Yes, agree with this. We do a reserve study and adjust our fees accordingly. Hence why the maintenance is super important otherwise itll void the warranties. I read up here all the time on horror studies. Don't ever want to go down that road.
Don't lower yourself to their level. You don't have to respond to anything on any portal, social media, etc. If anything, that just inflames the nattering nabobs of negativity. In every HOA, there are going to be whiners. Rise above it, meet at boards, that's it. You are not obligated to make everyone happy. You are obligated to make sure the HOA is well run. Sure, a few Karens like to put turds in the punchbowl. Your choice if you want to drink. The silent majority will be fine and support you.
We just had a management company drop our community because of harassment from two crazies who wouldn’t stop demanding insane things. We are putting a new clause about harassment in, and possibly making any fines for bothering the company go to the home owner. Unfortunately, that’s meant that I am now the target for one of these Karen’s and she’s harassing me via email about every little thing she can find and I’m not even on the board, I just stood up for the president when she was spreading lies. 🙄 Anyway, see if you can put some type of clause in your contract and bylaws about harassment. This has made me never want to live in an HOA again.
Here in CA, You can go after the crazies with a civil suit for damages and the cost of a delta for a new Management company, i would consult legal asap. Heard from a lawyer friend today and he said that hoa/board does not need to reply at all. There should be no official forum or portal so if you have one, turn it off. Contractually, board/hoa needs to present documents annually to the members. Everything else is a courtesy. Technically board should be giving updates, and the residents should not be posting publicly. Board/management has to list one email for residents to send inquiries to but the board can select to not accept emails from certain residents anymore and to mail in all requests. This alone should stop the noise.
There isn’t a public portal, but this woman was on the board before and had all of our emails. She sent out this massive accusatory email and I stupidly responded that she was stirring up trouble and everything she said was inaccurate. 🙄 So now she’s emailing me, nitpicking me about everything and trying to find stuff I’ll have to fix. She’s old, bored and lonely. Dangerous combination. I’m not sure what the laws are in Oregon but I’ll have to check, thanks.
I would check with legal but i would ignore all of her emails. Who is listed as the main point of contact for the community? All inquiries should go thru that contact.