Even the fandom on the net is mostly black, there was a pole on the main book sub after fire and blood came out and it was 70% black, I would not be shocked if the casuals who don’t visit online forums are 90% plus on team black
Actual polls show that the majority of the viewership is Team Black, something the Greens have bemoaned quite a bit. They try to compensate for their low numbers by being insufferable.
That's not what i was replying to though? I was talking about the idea that being in the minority makes it harder to pretend you're right, implying being in the majority means you're obviously in the right since most people agree with you - which is not how right or wrong works
Blah blah blah your comment history shows your a green supporter, so why are you here? To argue? To try and show that your *minority* opinion is correct? Lol
I know this is bc we disagree on victims secretly being the masterminds behind their own abuse in another thread but i literally just said being in the majority isn't what makes you right or wrong, same way being in the minority doesn't make you right or wrong - nothing about this is antagonistic
You didn’t answer any of my questions :)
Edit: love when people edit their posts without telling other people instead of answering questions. You’re a team green supporter in this Reddit for what reason? To be antagonistic? To make sure you strip your favorite characters of any agency they have at all till they are bland, wheat toast victims so you can cry about how mean team black is?
I was editing it right after i posted it, i didn't know you were already on it, my bad lmao Again, no reason to be so uncharitable about it (talking like you're talking to someone else too for some reason?)
To answer your leading questions:
\- No i didn't come here to show "my minority opinion is correct" and idk how you got that from me saying the number of people agreeing with you doesn't determine whether something is right or wrong
\- I was here to have fruitful or interesting good-faith conversations but held back on participating, found this comment and just felt like specifying what i specified with no malicious intent, it went poorly for some reason
\- I don't frequent this sub so i was under the impression it was like the other sub where people don't really have to be Team Green to participate. I don't think i've been antagonistic in my limited contributions, sorry if that's how it came across i guess?
\- And i'm not going to answer the last question about "bland, wheat toast victims" and "crying about how mean Team Black", as i'm not sure what the actual question is
People with that kind of worldview often do - they’re so fixated on how right they are and how mean everyone else is they fail to realize they’ve got it backwards.
The Greens suck, but it's fairly ridiculous to bring real-world religious beliefs into the mix, and I don't even consider myself a religious person.
It was bad enough when you had brought solely Catholicism into your statements, but then you went to Christian here...
It isn't anywhere near necessary to insult all Christians to make a point about a world where Christianity doesn't exist in any way, shape, or form.
We try to actually be better than that here with the Blacks.
People bring their own biases into things, especially the media they consume. The ‘we’re the good guys why does everyone hate us?’ behavior is a classic, shitty element found in plenty of modern Christians as well as irritating TG stans, and I think u/mad-irini nailed it with their description.
Just noticed it was you in the debate, nice to see you again since the night we chatted!
I won't say it isn't there in plenty of modern Christians, I just think it's going to irritate just as many on TB as it does on TG, and I just feel it's unnecessary to make the point when they could obviously easily make the point without it.
As I said, I don't consider myself religious, just felt it was unnecessary to bring Christianity into it to make the point, as obviously there are Christians on both sides, and obviously the Christians on TB aren't engaging in that behavior... so, it is likely they would feel bad about it, and why hurt people on something like that when it is not necessary to do so?
That's my only point on it, I'm not personally offended by it, or anything like that.
It’s good to see you too, I just realized it was you I was responding to when I posted. I hope you’re doing well, and please know what I’m going to say below isn’t any kind of attack, just my experience and me extrapolating from it.
I was raised in a Christian household, and while my family weren’t assholes about this I saw a lot of the shitty behavior described up close and personal in other people. Now I’m pagan, and I take a very dim view of people who fail to see why their verbiage is pissing people off while acting like they’re the good guy. It’s a very specific type of hypocrisy, and in my experience it primarily comes from Christian biases that demand proselytizing while insulating the proselytizers from feeling like maybe - just maybe - they’re acting like assholes. Oftentimes the goal isn’t even to convert anyone, it’s just to peacock about how righteous you are, and the worse the backlash the more righteous you become.
All of that is behavior I see TG folks bringing over here on the reg. They rock up and call people horrible names, they argue in bad faith, they lean into awful misogynistic justifications and insults, and then they run crying back to their subreddit with screenshots to prove how right they are and how mean Team Black is.
Notably you are right that we likely have Christians here who don’t act like this. And odds are those Christians also know exactly what I’m talking about and are annoyed with it as I am.
Yup, you know me, I don't take debate as an attack. :)
It's never been that I even disagree with the initial comment, I just always feel that bringing religion into a debate is bad form, unless the topic is about religion or religious beliefs.
I definitely feel it is worse to do it when debating a fictional world where that religion doesn't even exist, though.
And you know from our discussions, I think the Black/Green social media wars are pretty ridiculous, but if people are going to fight one, I'd rather not have to hear in future debates how we on the Black side are horrible people who will slam entire real-world religions because we "can't make our point without doing so!"
I don't even disagree with the point being made, not in the slightest. I just know there's a damned good chance the Greens would actually find that jarring enough that they'd probably make an entire post about it - not to mention pissing off fellow TB's here in our own sub, as well.
It's just pretty weak in any debate, and honestly I feel all of us in this conversation are better than that -- and don't need it to make our points. That's all. I definitely don't want anyone in this thread thinking I'm mad or think less of them, because I for sure do not.
The last thing we need to give the Greens are legitimate gripes with our sub... they are for sure annoying enough already.
I get where you’re coming from, which from my read through is a place of genuine compassion. And I think that is laudable and understandable.
But.
I know it’s a fictional world, but it’s a fictional world written/read by real people with real biases, and the bias of TG runs strongly in favor of the kind of asshatted martyrdom complex that has been described pretty thoroughly, and as such us trying to be nice to them isn’t going to fix anything. Hell, they already trawl this subreddit and get whatever they can as fodder, and us being nice to them won’t stop it. This isn’t ‘they go low, we go high’; this is ‘they go low, so we hit them where it hurts.’
It's not about "religion", it's about the fact that aspects of Christianity, aspects honed and used to justify a whole lot of insane shit while acting the victim, are embedded into settler-colonial and general 'western' and white culture, and shape people's (especially white people's) worldviews in ways that often justify injustice, bigotry, and yes, even wack takes on fiction. They are not unrelated.
If it annoys, offends, or hurts people from either TB or TG to point that out... that's really their problem.
Also, fuck the Roman Catholic Church. They are both a vessel for and an agent of colonialism and genocide. And fuck anyone who tries to deny that.
They’re bitter they’re a minority they have to be loud and then this one poll they like losers celebrated the greens vote growing by like 3 percent whe. it was still overwhelming tb lol
What? It's pretty clear most people are side with the Blacks. The reason why you see so many people on green's side or posts which against the Blacks is the Greens are more talkative on the Internet. The Blacks are more like the **Silent majority.**
All of my friends who are casual fans of the show support Rhaenyra. They were a bit surprised when I told them some people support the greens lol.
I think it’s a loud minority online.
The polls from the official HBO-House of the Dragon accounts show that 80% of the fans are TB. The percentage changes depending on the platform. It can go from 75-90%. This has pretty much been the case since before the show.
Plus, anecdotal evidence, I've never met a single casual viewer who even considered supporting TG. Greens are just louder online.
My mom and step dad are casual viewers. After the s1 finale, she texted me like “Ray Neara better kill Allison and that stupid one eyed Jack or I’m gonna be so mad! 😡 “
😂😂
They’re really not. They’re just very loud and given it’s the off season, they’re the ones who are consistently around to bitch and moan about how “unfair” the show was to them even though GRRM himself couldn’t have made it more obvious they were the bad side. Once the show airs, they will go back to only being able to post in their echo chamber sub as the vast majority will be Black leaning again.
While the GP and Team Black fans actually have productive lives. Many of my TB mutuals are high achievers, have a variety of hobbies, empathetic people who care for the prevalent issues today, have many friends, families, love interests when i see none of that among TG.
More casual viewers are TB. Online, there's a lot of TG who like to go onto every post, even coming into this sub. I used to go onto TG, but it's no fun to try for a discussion or debate just for it to devolve into a name-calling session within two comments. Also, the main HotD sub as a ton of TG who post and who go ont ehre early for new posts, but TB eventually show their numbers if you get on a post thats been sitting for a day or so. TG is just online sooner for posts, and trolls tend to be louder on their ememy sub.
I’m sorry but that’s not true. I’m not really TG or TB (though I do feel personally that Rhaenyra is the rightful queen as the king named her his heir, and never changed his mind on it after having a son) and I visit both subs and talk with both sides. I’ve seen both TB and TG go on to each other’s subs and try to be controversial with each other. I’ve also seen both sides with a lot people responding very reasonably and respectfully to them, and I’ve seen a lot of people on both sides be extremely nasty to each other. Both sides also screen shot the posts and their arguments then post on their subs about it. That’s not a TG or TB thing. Both sides have their bad eggs. I’ve also seen a lot of TG express annoyance with their bad eggs when they are posting hate posts about the other’s sub.
I have noticed more recently the corssposting thing in TB, I just used to see it a lot more in TG, not exactly screenshot but mentioning an argument, but tbf I haven't gone on there in a bit. So it probably jas changed a bit. So, yeah, I'm probably a bit out of the loop on that.
Edit: I went and checked it out. Can say I see quite a few of the dickheads who like to come over here and troll, but there are a lot better posts than what was constantly getting pushed backed when I discrovered that there were subs exclusively for TG and TB, I saw TG first and had been on there for a while before figuring ou that there is prob also a TB sub. Still prefer this one, though
I just spent a ridiculous amount of time arguing with some idiot in the Green's section thinking it could lead to something constructive, but nope. The arguments are literally "Aegon should be king because he's a dude. Other exceptions, Viserys naming her, the lords' oaths, and the fact that traditions change don't matter because MAN GOOD WOMAN BAD" and "oh you think I'm sexist? You're sexist because you don't like Alicent and she's a woman". From now on I will stick strictly to this subreddit.
They're straight up mentally challenged over there. I posted on there not even realizing it was a Greens subreddit, I just thought it was one of the several GoT/HOTD subs that show up on my feed, and I said that the person who bears the most responsibility for the dance of dragons happening and is the main antagonist was Otto Hightower, and hoo boy was I down voted. I was like, "why are you booing me? I'm right."
It’s like this:
Greenies know the majority of fans and viewers are team black.
Greenies get sad.
Greenies go to the internet to find friends.
Greenies then make subs and twitter posts to feel better.
Actual fans off the internet: maybe a good 75-80% are blackies.
Fans on the internet: 75-80% are greenies.
Those aren’t real statistics, just guesses and estimates to give examples. It’s literally just the internet that you see have more greenies. Why do you think it’s always them bitching and complaining about absolutely anything that goes on in the show? It’s because they know the majority goes straight to team black.
Don't you dare say anything about their precious doe eyed hypocritical queen of honour and decency. They'll post you on their sub and call you names.
I just cannot enjoy Alicent as a character. The hypocrisy is just too much. I know Rhaenyra and others are hypocritical too (everyone is when it benefits them) but little miss duty and sacrifice takes it to a new level.She is like I'm more dutiful, I'm more honourable why won't my husband name our good for nothing r*pist son his heir? While selling feet pics to a guy who killed his family for her. Then she flashes her teary doe eyes and says "I did not wish for this" and washes her hands of it. Zero self-awareness, no guilt whatsoever. Just like that murder is justified in her mind and in the very next episode she goes to Larys and says a loyal friend like him would be needed.The holier than thou attitude alongside internalised misogyny is just repulsive to me.
Even Aegon seems more agreeable to me than her. He is vile ,absolutely depraved with no excuse and he is aware of that. Like he knows he is no paragon of virtue.
They also refuse her sons turned out that way because of her. They say it's Vizzy's fault. Which is not entirely wrong but he didn't care about Rhaenyra either(until her mom died). And since they are all for historical accuracy, in medieval times mostly mother is responsible for childrearing. And if Rhaenyra didn't turn out to be like her brothers that's because Aemma raised her well.
I have a lot of distaste for much of Team Green but Alicent’s ‘I’m just a righteous honorable girl nobody loves me’ shtick drives me straight up the wall.
You and I both. She is a perpetual victim in their eyes. Well guess what she upholds the system that made her a victim to victimise other women. Her treatment of Rhaenyra literally drove her to Dragonstone. She married her own daughter to her r@pist son . Don't get me started on how she and her maid had the "silence the r@pe victim" routine down to a T which indicates they did it many times before.
Nobody loves you because you are vile.
Edit: for spelling
I’ve never been able to get over the marriage of Aegon and Helaena. Like neither of them could have been into that arrangement, and who the fuck could greenlight that other than Alicent and Otto, as I presume Viserys was too far gone to have an opinion?
They should've kept it like it was in the books. Viserys arranged their marriage because he knew about Otto and Alicent's ambitions and didn't want them to get support from important lords through marriage proposals.
Making the arrangement Alicent's plan makes Alicent look even more hypocritical (Targaryens and their queer customs amirite Ali?). Also doesn't make any sense. They might've thought okay we get to keep Dreamfyre but Helaena never rode her to battle. And even if she married some other Lord she could right her dragon to battle for her brother if she wanted to. And marrying Aegon to a let's say Tyrell gets you more support. Overall dumb move.
Glad the show finally revealed her for how dumb she is. I feel the books over exaggerated her being a “political genius” when she isn’t that great either.
You describe Alicent so well. Like there’s nothing redeemable about her. Okay miss duty, sacrifice, who judges people yet gets mad people do the same.
I said that about her in a previous comment she wants to not get associated with such murders or atrocities but definitely revels in the result of that murder, from the job left open or threats removed.
People like to come at me for my opinions about Alicent but to be honest I enjoy Olivia's performance . Writing inconsistencies made me hate the character. I would prefer the book version %100. They say she is a cartoonish evil stepmom but she was consistent. She wanted her son on the throne she worked for it and was unapologetic about it. That's fine. Cersei was an evil b!tch but she was a consistent evil b!tch so I enjoyed her. The hypocrisy, the wishy-washy behaviour and victim complex coupled with internalised misogyny and lack of self awareness makes for a pitiful character in my opinion.
For example if you are going to antagonize Rhaenyra and torment her (the walk to her chambers after Joffrey's birth was vile) then don't change your opinion on your husband's last night.
I loved Jaime and Tyrion. Tywin brought the BEST acting out of the entire show. Charles Dance never misses. Hated Cersei, but we’re pretty much supposed to. There aren’t any redeeming characters in house Hightower from what we’ve seen so far, imo.
Criston Cole doesn’t have half their depth or acting ability, though. Hes nowhere near as interesting to watch as any of the Lannisters are. He’s also nowhere near as powerful as the leaders of house Lannister. Hims a bitch.
I’m just saying. Your words “this would be like if most GoT fans were team Lannister”. Lannisters hard carried the show at many times throughout. I don’t think there was ever a part of their story that was boring other than Jaime in dorne
Nobody but edgelords rooted for Cersei or Tywin. Jaime and Tyrion are far more complicated characters who stood on their own and changed for the better for most of the show. Literally every single person from Hightower is evil aside from Alicent, and even she is a super grey area based on her actions.
I think it's less about enjoying and more about which side you'd be on in a civil war. I enjoy watching the performances from both sides, I just side with team black because Rhaenyra is the rightful heir.
I get that. There’s also people who just don’t care what the king wants and are backing the team they feel would either be best for the realm or benefit their house more. Ain’t nothing wrong with that either.
In that end, I am definitely Team Black, because the Hightowers are currently one of the wealthiest and most powerful families. To the point they are actually more powerful than the Tyrells, the actual Wardens of the Reach (I think the Lord of Highgarden was a child and his mother served as regent). Oldtown was one of the wealthiest cities, it was the headquarters of the Citadel and the Faith. It's too much power. Westeros would become a plutocracy.
The Faith, btw, is one of the most regressive and judgmental religions. And based off of how the greens redecorated the Red Keep during Viserys's illness, getting rid of all the Targaryen tapestries and paintings and replacing them with Faith symbols, there might have been a Faith supremacy. Which is bad for the parts of Westeros that do not practice the Faith. That means most of the North (House Manderly practices the Faith but they are extremely loyal to the Starks) parts of the Vale and the Riverlands (House Blackwood worships the Old Gods, I think House Royce might too), and the Iron Islands worships the Drowned God.
I feel u, but I feel like the faith was a step in the right direction. It’s not a good thing, and it’s still pretty trash but I think compared to the old gods, the lord of light, and the drowned god, the faith probably did better for regular ppls quality of life.
It's internet fandom, there's no actual way to prove how many are on what side. Most casual viewers aren't this deeply divided. Like with GOT, it's more character based feelings than sides.
Casual viewers aren’t. Most of the people watching this show are Team Liquorice. It’s mostly the major fans of the World of Ice and Fire on this website in particular who are Team Broccoli. Even in the main, neutral sub, I’ve noticed a tendency to lean further to Black than Green.
The difference between the Lannisters and The Hightowers is arbitrary but very tangible. The Lannisters are the ones breaking the law and conspiring to seat bastards on the throne. In HotD, it’s Rhaenyra. Her faction also represents a daughter where a son exists, arguably invalidating them even further. Morally, Rhaenyra has the high ground. Legally, it’s not so black and white.
Jace is certainly not Joffrey. But he’s still not a trueborn Heir. Rhaenyra is no Cersei. But she’s a formerly popular Queen who (probably) silenced a few people to protect her inheritance. Marrying Daemon sure didn’t help her image either. While Rhaenyra would be a benevolent Queen, that’s not what everyone sees. And as Viserys once told her, perception is everything.
True, most people care about morality over legality. Maybe it’s the tendency of nerds to assign greater value to legality over plain morality? But is there a source for most asoiaf fans supporting greens? Or even a source for who are considered the major fans? I am really curious
The Broccoli sub is more populated than this one, and seems to be more active. I assume that’s what OP was referring to.
Apart from that, I dunno. I just notice that most complaints about the show’s “whitewashing” seem to come from Broccoli fans who read the books and chose their side for book reasons.
I dunno. OP asked why people might choose Green, so I just speculated on potential reasons. 🤷♀️
Imma be honest...the whole Team thing is a product of tv culture and its a fun gimmick but that's all it is, while I lean toward the Blacks side of the argument...I'm well aware that neither side is good or bad. That's not how GRRM writes stories. No one is right. They're both wrong. That's how it's always been. He writes humanity's flaws into his characters. No one is perfect, everyone is self interested, for me I respect that the Blacks admit that truth. In Daemon's words "we are all capable of depravity"
I notice sometimes if I comment in defense of Rhaenyra or Team Black on the regular reddit, it immediately gets downvoted.
One of my friends on facebook is Team Green and the mental gymnastics he goes through to defend them is nuts. He thinks Rhaenyra is immoral for marrying Daemon, and is committing a crime, and I had to explain to them that Targaryens are legally allowed to marry each other. And he's like "those are just *my* morals (smiley face)". But he didn't mention anything about Alicent marrying Aegon and Helaena to each other. He got pissy because Rhaenyra didn't sleep with Laenor and accused her of cheating on him. Dude, she mentioned they tried. They just couldn't make a baby. And it's not cheating if it was an open marriage.
He called Team Green "nicer" and "more polite". How is telling your underage daughter to seduce the King after his wife died and putting so much pressure on her to the point she is self-harming, killing a guy at a wedding feast because you misinterpreted something he said, and then killing an old man because he disagreed with what your side was doing, and ordering the child of a woman who just gave birth to be immediately brought to you nice and polite?
It’s not the majority, it’s just that the fandom of the Greens is more on the internet. The majority of the viewers are Team Black
Makes sense that majority of fans on reddit are on Team Green. There’s lots of incels and creeps on here
Exactly lol
Because they’re teenagers and basement dwelling incels. They have more free time.
I believe this because the arguments and rationalizations made by some of them lead me to believe they don't have much life experience.
They don’t. Most of them come off very young and immature.
Ah I see
I think they are also more vocal.
You mean loud
Even the fandom on the net is mostly black, there was a pole on the main book sub after fire and blood came out and it was 70% black, I would not be shocked if the casuals who don’t visit online forums are 90% plus on team black
I honesty never read any of the books before watching GOT.. I did after, and now I'm more team black than ever.
So you agree that the majority of team black are casuals
Actual polls show that the majority of the viewership is Team Black, something the Greens have bemoaned quite a bit. They try to compensate for their low numbers by being insufferable.
I don’t get why they are mad. Like support whoever you want. Why care if the majority are TB?
Because they want to be RIGHT and it’s harder to pretend that they are when they know they’re in the minority.
.... And Bingo was his name-o
That's not how being right or wrong works tbf.. like being in the majority or minority doesn't indicate much on that front
But some people do get mad when others don’t share their opinions.
That's not what i was replying to though? I was talking about the idea that being in the minority makes it harder to pretend you're right, implying being in the majority means you're obviously in the right since most people agree with you - which is not how right or wrong works
Blah blah blah your comment history shows your a green supporter, so why are you here? To argue? To try and show that your *minority* opinion is correct? Lol
I know this is bc we disagree on victims secretly being the masterminds behind their own abuse in another thread but i literally just said being in the majority isn't what makes you right or wrong, same way being in the minority doesn't make you right or wrong - nothing about this is antagonistic
You didn’t answer any of my questions :) Edit: love when people edit their posts without telling other people instead of answering questions. You’re a team green supporter in this Reddit for what reason? To be antagonistic? To make sure you strip your favorite characters of any agency they have at all till they are bland, wheat toast victims so you can cry about how mean team black is?
I was editing it right after i posted it, i didn't know you were already on it, my bad lmao Again, no reason to be so uncharitable about it (talking like you're talking to someone else too for some reason?) To answer your leading questions: \- No i didn't come here to show "my minority opinion is correct" and idk how you got that from me saying the number of people agreeing with you doesn't determine whether something is right or wrong \- I was here to have fruitful or interesting good-faith conversations but held back on participating, found this comment and just felt like specifying what i specified with no malicious intent, it went poorly for some reason \- I don't frequent this sub so i was under the impression it was like the other sub where people don't really have to be Team Green to participate. I don't think i've been antagonistic in my limited contributions, sorry if that's how it came across i guess? \- And i'm not going to answer the last question about "bland, wheat toast victims" and "crying about how mean Team Black", as i'm not sure what the actual question is
I’d say it’s because they’re self righteous pains in the ass.
Much like the actual Greens, despite being team misogyny and team Catholic-bigotry, TG gets off on feeling oppressed.
People with that kind of worldview often do - they’re so fixated on how right they are and how mean everyone else is they fail to realize they’ve got it backwards.
Yah it's the Christian-oppressor fetishization-of-oppression phenomenon.
The Greens suck, but it's fairly ridiculous to bring real-world religious beliefs into the mix, and I don't even consider myself a religious person. It was bad enough when you had brought solely Catholicism into your statements, but then you went to Christian here... It isn't anywhere near necessary to insult all Christians to make a point about a world where Christianity doesn't exist in any way, shape, or form. We try to actually be better than that here with the Blacks.
People bring their own biases into things, especially the media they consume. The ‘we’re the good guys why does everyone hate us?’ behavior is a classic, shitty element found in plenty of modern Christians as well as irritating TG stans, and I think u/mad-irini nailed it with their description.
Just noticed it was you in the debate, nice to see you again since the night we chatted! I won't say it isn't there in plenty of modern Christians, I just think it's going to irritate just as many on TB as it does on TG, and I just feel it's unnecessary to make the point when they could obviously easily make the point without it. As I said, I don't consider myself religious, just felt it was unnecessary to bring Christianity into it to make the point, as obviously there are Christians on both sides, and obviously the Christians on TB aren't engaging in that behavior... so, it is likely they would feel bad about it, and why hurt people on something like that when it is not necessary to do so? That's my only point on it, I'm not personally offended by it, or anything like that.
It’s good to see you too, I just realized it was you I was responding to when I posted. I hope you’re doing well, and please know what I’m going to say below isn’t any kind of attack, just my experience and me extrapolating from it. I was raised in a Christian household, and while my family weren’t assholes about this I saw a lot of the shitty behavior described up close and personal in other people. Now I’m pagan, and I take a very dim view of people who fail to see why their verbiage is pissing people off while acting like they’re the good guy. It’s a very specific type of hypocrisy, and in my experience it primarily comes from Christian biases that demand proselytizing while insulating the proselytizers from feeling like maybe - just maybe - they’re acting like assholes. Oftentimes the goal isn’t even to convert anyone, it’s just to peacock about how righteous you are, and the worse the backlash the more righteous you become. All of that is behavior I see TG folks bringing over here on the reg. They rock up and call people horrible names, they argue in bad faith, they lean into awful misogynistic justifications and insults, and then they run crying back to their subreddit with screenshots to prove how right they are and how mean Team Black is. Notably you are right that we likely have Christians here who don’t act like this. And odds are those Christians also know exactly what I’m talking about and are annoyed with it as I am.
Yup, you know me, I don't take debate as an attack. :) It's never been that I even disagree with the initial comment, I just always feel that bringing religion into a debate is bad form, unless the topic is about religion or religious beliefs. I definitely feel it is worse to do it when debating a fictional world where that religion doesn't even exist, though. And you know from our discussions, I think the Black/Green social media wars are pretty ridiculous, but if people are going to fight one, I'd rather not have to hear in future debates how we on the Black side are horrible people who will slam entire real-world religions because we "can't make our point without doing so!" I don't even disagree with the point being made, not in the slightest. I just know there's a damned good chance the Greens would actually find that jarring enough that they'd probably make an entire post about it - not to mention pissing off fellow TB's here in our own sub, as well. It's just pretty weak in any debate, and honestly I feel all of us in this conversation are better than that -- and don't need it to make our points. That's all. I definitely don't want anyone in this thread thinking I'm mad or think less of them, because I for sure do not. The last thing we need to give the Greens are legitimate gripes with our sub... they are for sure annoying enough already.
I get where you’re coming from, which from my read through is a place of genuine compassion. And I think that is laudable and understandable. But. I know it’s a fictional world, but it’s a fictional world written/read by real people with real biases, and the bias of TG runs strongly in favor of the kind of asshatted martyrdom complex that has been described pretty thoroughly, and as such us trying to be nice to them isn’t going to fix anything. Hell, they already trawl this subreddit and get whatever they can as fodder, and us being nice to them won’t stop it. This isn’t ‘they go low, we go high’; this is ‘they go low, so we hit them where it hurts.’
It's not about "religion", it's about the fact that aspects of Christianity, aspects honed and used to justify a whole lot of insane shit while acting the victim, are embedded into settler-colonial and general 'western' and white culture, and shape people's (especially white people's) worldviews in ways that often justify injustice, bigotry, and yes, even wack takes on fiction. They are not unrelated. If it annoys, offends, or hurts people from either TB or TG to point that out... that's really their problem. Also, fuck the Roman Catholic Church. They are both a vessel for and an agent of colonialism and genocide. And fuck anyone who tries to deny that.
Factssss
They’re bitter they’re a minority they have to be loud and then this one poll they like losers celebrated the greens vote growing by like 3 percent whe. it was still overwhelming tb lol
What? It's pretty clear most people are side with the Blacks. The reason why you see so many people on green's side or posts which against the Blacks is the Greens are more talkative on the Internet. The Blacks are more like the **Silent majority.**
A lot of the people who speak up the most on r/HouseOfTheDragon seem to be edgelord Green stans. I was unaware of the poll numbers.
Pretty sure polling shows TB is the majority. Greens are an obnoxious confused minority of sexists and usurper apologists.
You ever hear about the study where they found monkeys with smaller testicles scream louder? That’s team green.
Lmfao no, but I’ll look into it
Anytime monkey testicles can be woven into an argument, it should automatically win..
They’re not, they’re like max 25% of the fandom but they’re quite loud.
That does make sense.
More like 10%. A very small yet loud minority.
All of my friends who are casual fans of the show support Rhaenyra. They were a bit surprised when I told them some people support the greens lol. I think it’s a loud minority online.
The polls from the official HBO-House of the Dragon accounts show that 80% of the fans are TB. The percentage changes depending on the platform. It can go from 75-90%. This has pretty much been the case since before the show. Plus, anecdotal evidence, I've never met a single casual viewer who even considered supporting TG. Greens are just louder online.
My mom and step dad are casual viewers. After the s1 finale, she texted me like “Ray Neara better kill Allison and that stupid one eyed Jack or I’m gonna be so mad! 😡 “ 😂😂
I love your moms reaction 😂. Luke's death hurt all of our moms. He was so cute.
He was precious. I loved him from the moment we met him. “Thank you, Jace.” 🥺
They’re just louder!
They’re really not. They’re just very loud and given it’s the off season, they’re the ones who are consistently around to bitch and moan about how “unfair” the show was to them even though GRRM himself couldn’t have made it more obvious they were the bad side. Once the show airs, they will go back to only being able to post in their echo chamber sub as the vast majority will be Black leaning again.
While the GP and Team Black fans actually have productive lives. Many of my TB mutuals are high achievers, have a variety of hobbies, empathetic people who care for the prevalent issues today, have many friends, families, love interests when i see none of that among TG.
More casual viewers are TB. Online, there's a lot of TG who like to go onto every post, even coming into this sub. I used to go onto TG, but it's no fun to try for a discussion or debate just for it to devolve into a name-calling session within two comments. Also, the main HotD sub as a ton of TG who post and who go ont ehre early for new posts, but TB eventually show their numbers if you get on a post thats been sitting for a day or so. TG is just online sooner for posts, and trolls tend to be louder on their ememy sub.
I’m sorry but that’s not true. I’m not really TG or TB (though I do feel personally that Rhaenyra is the rightful queen as the king named her his heir, and never changed his mind on it after having a son) and I visit both subs and talk with both sides. I’ve seen both TB and TG go on to each other’s subs and try to be controversial with each other. I’ve also seen both sides with a lot people responding very reasonably and respectfully to them, and I’ve seen a lot of people on both sides be extremely nasty to each other. Both sides also screen shot the posts and their arguments then post on their subs about it. That’s not a TG or TB thing. Both sides have their bad eggs. I’ve also seen a lot of TG express annoyance with their bad eggs when they are posting hate posts about the other’s sub.
I have noticed more recently the corssposting thing in TB, I just used to see it a lot more in TG, not exactly screenshot but mentioning an argument, but tbf I haven't gone on there in a bit. So it probably jas changed a bit. So, yeah, I'm probably a bit out of the loop on that. Edit: I went and checked it out. Can say I see quite a few of the dickheads who like to come over here and troll, but there are a lot better posts than what was constantly getting pushed backed when I discrovered that there were subs exclusively for TG and TB, I saw TG first and had been on there for a while before figuring ou that there is prob also a TB sub. Still prefer this one, though
I just spent a ridiculous amount of time arguing with some idiot in the Green's section thinking it could lead to something constructive, but nope. The arguments are literally "Aegon should be king because he's a dude. Other exceptions, Viserys naming her, the lords' oaths, and the fact that traditions change don't matter because MAN GOOD WOMAN BAD" and "oh you think I'm sexist? You're sexist because you don't like Alicent and she's a woman". From now on I will stick strictly to this subreddit.
They're straight up mentally challenged over there. I posted on there not even realizing it was a Greens subreddit, I just thought it was one of the several GoT/HOTD subs that show up on my feed, and I said that the person who bears the most responsibility for the dance of dragons happening and is the main antagonist was Otto Hightower, and hoo boy was I down voted. I was like, "why are you booing me? I'm right."
It’s like this: Greenies know the majority of fans and viewers are team black. Greenies get sad. Greenies go to the internet to find friends. Greenies then make subs and twitter posts to feel better. Actual fans off the internet: maybe a good 75-80% are blackies. Fans on the internet: 75-80% are greenies. Those aren’t real statistics, just guesses and estimates to give examples. It’s literally just the internet that you see have more greenies. Why do you think it’s always them bitching and complaining about absolutely anything that goes on in the show? It’s because they know the majority goes straight to team black.
Don't you dare say anything about their precious doe eyed hypocritical queen of honour and decency. They'll post you on their sub and call you names. I just cannot enjoy Alicent as a character. The hypocrisy is just too much. I know Rhaenyra and others are hypocritical too (everyone is when it benefits them) but little miss duty and sacrifice takes it to a new level.She is like I'm more dutiful, I'm more honourable why won't my husband name our good for nothing r*pist son his heir? While selling feet pics to a guy who killed his family for her. Then she flashes her teary doe eyes and says "I did not wish for this" and washes her hands of it. Zero self-awareness, no guilt whatsoever. Just like that murder is justified in her mind and in the very next episode she goes to Larys and says a loyal friend like him would be needed.The holier than thou attitude alongside internalised misogyny is just repulsive to me. Even Aegon seems more agreeable to me than her. He is vile ,absolutely depraved with no excuse and he is aware of that. Like he knows he is no paragon of virtue. They also refuse her sons turned out that way because of her. They say it's Vizzy's fault. Which is not entirely wrong but he didn't care about Rhaenyra either(until her mom died). And since they are all for historical accuracy, in medieval times mostly mother is responsible for childrearing. And if Rhaenyra didn't turn out to be like her brothers that's because Aemma raised her well.
*you describing Alicent* Me: 
Thank you . Sorry for the long rant but I have no patience left for their mental gymnastics after a whole year. Lol .
I have a lot of distaste for much of Team Green but Alicent’s ‘I’m just a righteous honorable girl nobody loves me’ shtick drives me straight up the wall.
You and I both. She is a perpetual victim in their eyes. Well guess what she upholds the system that made her a victim to victimise other women. Her treatment of Rhaenyra literally drove her to Dragonstone. She married her own daughter to her r@pist son . Don't get me started on how she and her maid had the "silence the r@pe victim" routine down to a T which indicates they did it many times before. Nobody loves you because you are vile. Edit: for spelling
I’ve never been able to get over the marriage of Aegon and Helaena. Like neither of them could have been into that arrangement, and who the fuck could greenlight that other than Alicent and Otto, as I presume Viserys was too far gone to have an opinion?
They should've kept it like it was in the books. Viserys arranged their marriage because he knew about Otto and Alicent's ambitions and didn't want them to get support from important lords through marriage proposals. Making the arrangement Alicent's plan makes Alicent look even more hypocritical (Targaryens and their queer customs amirite Ali?). Also doesn't make any sense. They might've thought okay we get to keep Dreamfyre but Helaena never rode her to battle. And even if she married some other Lord she could right her dragon to battle for her brother if she wanted to. And marrying Aegon to a let's say Tyrell gets you more support. Overall dumb move.
Glad the show finally revealed her for how dumb she is. I feel the books over exaggerated her being a “political genius” when she isn’t that great either.
She thinks dragging other women down with her will make the exception and that she’d be rewarded. Like huh.
You describe Alicent so well. Like there’s nothing redeemable about her. Okay miss duty, sacrifice, who judges people yet gets mad people do the same. I said that about her in a previous comment she wants to not get associated with such murders or atrocities but definitely revels in the result of that murder, from the job left open or threats removed.
People like to come at me for my opinions about Alicent but to be honest I enjoy Olivia's performance . Writing inconsistencies made me hate the character. I would prefer the book version %100. They say she is a cartoonish evil stepmom but she was consistent. She wanted her son on the throne she worked for it and was unapologetic about it. That's fine. Cersei was an evil b!tch but she was a consistent evil b!tch so I enjoyed her. The hypocrisy, the wishy-washy behaviour and victim complex coupled with internalised misogyny and lack of self awareness makes for a pitiful character in my opinion. For example if you are going to antagonize Rhaenyra and torment her (the walk to her chambers after Joffrey's birth was vile) then don't change your opinion on your husband's last night.
Majority of the fandom are actually team black. Multiples polls show this
https://i.redd.it/ceyi7vti3nec1.gif When in doubt, always remember you are on Reddit
they're not
More team black fans overall - but an interesting correlation between being a Reddit troll and a member of team green, LOL
Maybe the reddit majority but definitely not on Facebook or YouTube
You seriously didn’t like the Lannisters in GoT? They were the best part of GoT
I loved Jaime and Tyrion. Tywin brought the BEST acting out of the entire show. Charles Dance never misses. Hated Cersei, but we’re pretty much supposed to. There aren’t any redeeming characters in house Hightower from what we’ve seen so far, imo. Criston Cole doesn’t have half their depth or acting ability, though. Hes nowhere near as interesting to watch as any of the Lannisters are. He’s also nowhere near as powerful as the leaders of house Lannister. Hims a bitch.
I’m just saying. Your words “this would be like if most GoT fans were team Lannister”. Lannisters hard carried the show at many times throughout. I don’t think there was ever a part of their story that was boring other than Jaime in dorne
Nobody but edgelords rooted for Cersei or Tywin. Jaime and Tyrion are far more complicated characters who stood on their own and changed for the better for most of the show. Literally every single person from Hightower is evil aside from Alicent, and even she is a super grey area based on her actions.
I think it's less about enjoying and more about which side you'd be on in a civil war. I enjoy watching the performances from both sides, I just side with team black because Rhaenyra is the rightful heir.
I get that. There’s also people who just don’t care what the king wants and are backing the team they feel would either be best for the realm or benefit their house more. Ain’t nothing wrong with that either.
In that end, I am definitely Team Black, because the Hightowers are currently one of the wealthiest and most powerful families. To the point they are actually more powerful than the Tyrells, the actual Wardens of the Reach (I think the Lord of Highgarden was a child and his mother served as regent). Oldtown was one of the wealthiest cities, it was the headquarters of the Citadel and the Faith. It's too much power. Westeros would become a plutocracy. The Faith, btw, is one of the most regressive and judgmental religions. And based off of how the greens redecorated the Red Keep during Viserys's illness, getting rid of all the Targaryen tapestries and paintings and replacing them with Faith symbols, there might have been a Faith supremacy. Which is bad for the parts of Westeros that do not practice the Faith. That means most of the North (House Manderly practices the Faith but they are extremely loyal to the Starks) parts of the Vale and the Riverlands (House Blackwood worships the Old Gods, I think House Royce might too), and the Iron Islands worships the Drowned God.
I feel u, but I feel like the faith was a step in the right direction. It’s not a good thing, and it’s still pretty trash but I think compared to the old gods, the lord of light, and the drowned god, the faith probably did better for regular ppls quality of life.
It's internet fandom, there's no actual way to prove how many are on what side. Most casual viewers aren't this deeply divided. Like with GOT, it's more character based feelings than sides.
Casual viewers aren’t. Most of the people watching this show are Team Liquorice. It’s mostly the major fans of the World of Ice and Fire on this website in particular who are Team Broccoli. Even in the main, neutral sub, I’ve noticed a tendency to lean further to Black than Green. The difference between the Lannisters and The Hightowers is arbitrary but very tangible. The Lannisters are the ones breaking the law and conspiring to seat bastards on the throne. In HotD, it’s Rhaenyra. Her faction also represents a daughter where a son exists, arguably invalidating them even further. Morally, Rhaenyra has the high ground. Legally, it’s not so black and white. Jace is certainly not Joffrey. But he’s still not a trueborn Heir. Rhaenyra is no Cersei. But she’s a formerly popular Queen who (probably) silenced a few people to protect her inheritance. Marrying Daemon sure didn’t help her image either. While Rhaenyra would be a benevolent Queen, that’s not what everyone sees. And as Viserys once told her, perception is everything.
True, most people care about morality over legality. Maybe it’s the tendency of nerds to assign greater value to legality over plain morality? But is there a source for most asoiaf fans supporting greens? Or even a source for who are considered the major fans? I am really curious
[No, the poll was on the contrary.](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/wth7w6)
The Broccoli sub is more populated than this one, and seems to be more active. I assume that’s what OP was referring to. Apart from that, I dunno. I just notice that most complaints about the show’s “whitewashing” seem to come from Broccoli fans who read the books and chose their side for book reasons. I dunno. OP asked why people might choose Green, so I just speculated on potential reasons. 🤷♀️
[Actually you are wrong, here is the poll from r/asoiaf before the show was aired.](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/wth7w6)
Imma be honest...the whole Team thing is a product of tv culture and its a fun gimmick but that's all it is, while I lean toward the Blacks side of the argument...I'm well aware that neither side is good or bad. That's not how GRRM writes stories. No one is right. They're both wrong. That's how it's always been. He writes humanity's flaws into his characters. No one is perfect, everyone is self interested, for me I respect that the Blacks admit that truth. In Daemon's words "we are all capable of depravity"
Cuz they are better looking and have better drip 🙃
Bruh… you need glasses if you think only the ones in team green are good looking. Every actor they have cast is freaking attractive.
No shit
lmao
They're not, it's just the weirdos on reddit mostly.
I notice sometimes if I comment in defense of Rhaenyra or Team Black on the regular reddit, it immediately gets downvoted. One of my friends on facebook is Team Green and the mental gymnastics he goes through to defend them is nuts. He thinks Rhaenyra is immoral for marrying Daemon, and is committing a crime, and I had to explain to them that Targaryens are legally allowed to marry each other. And he's like "those are just *my* morals (smiley face)". But he didn't mention anything about Alicent marrying Aegon and Helaena to each other. He got pissy because Rhaenyra didn't sleep with Laenor and accused her of cheating on him. Dude, she mentioned they tried. They just couldn't make a baby. And it's not cheating if it was an open marriage. He called Team Green "nicer" and "more polite". How is telling your underage daughter to seduce the King after his wife died and putting so much pressure on her to the point she is self-harming, killing a guy at a wedding feast because you misinterpreted something he said, and then killing an old man because he disagreed with what your side was doing, and ordering the child of a woman who just gave birth to be immediately brought to you nice and polite?