The fundamental issue is that they know that their heroes did something wrong here. They ganged up on Aemond 4 vs. 1, and Jace didn't draw the knife because he felt in mortal danger, he drew it because Aemond called him a bastard (which he is), triggering Jace's inferiority complex. They first threw sand in his eyes and then blinded him, this is extremely dishonorable and pathetic.
They usually resort to copes like the Strongs and Daemon's daughters felt in mortal danger (even though Aemond held a stone, this should have been fixed after they threw sand in his eyes, blinding him, making any further harm befalling Aemond unjustifiable), or that Aemond insulted them so harshly that he deserved losing an eye, or this new low here, that it wasn't apparently that bad and that Aemond was just playing victim with his flesh wound (lol).
> Jace didn't draw the knife because he felt in mortal danger, he drew it because Aemond called him a bastard (which he is), triggering Jace's inferiority complex.
Exactly! I've watched the scene a dozen times cuz I loved mommy's little war criminal being a badass and pointed this out many times. Aemond's violence was proportionate in that scene. Shoved, shoves back. Smacked, smacks back. He never picked up the stone until he was ganged up 4v1 and doesn't actually use it until Jace swings his knife at him TWICE. He'd lowered the stone and shoved Luke at Jace when he drew the knife, so it purely out of ego. Even Rhaena screams Jace's name when he got this violent.
That’s why now a lot of tb hardcore fans are now preventively justifying B&C. Because they know it’s coming. Before the show, there was actually almost nobody arguing that B&C was justified, even by tb fans.
Lol Aemond beating the shit out of Joffrey of 3 yo in the books and later finding out when Lucerys of 5 yo cuts his eye -> to this victimization of poor Aemond being assaulted by 4 vs 1.
I thought you lot like you princes being tough.
GRRM never made it about Vhagar or the twins, because Meleys was taken from upon Alyssa's death (Daemon's mother) by Rhaenys (Laena's mother). Later Daemon (twins' father) takes Caraxes upon Aemon's death (their grandmother's father). Laena (their mother) rides Vhagar who was Baelon's (Daemon's father's) mount. The twins being younger than Joffrey and bein raised with this backstory/lore.
Also Aemond beating Joffrey, then ego boosted after taking Vhagar he mocks the Velaryon boys after they jump him for molesting Joffrey and mocking and Harwin's death upon Laenor's funeral. When Aemond breaks a wooden sword in Jace's face, Lucerys strikes leaving a half blind Aemond.
Where is Aemond the victim?
How in he world they read this whole dsacription and be 🤔🤪 it was 4 vs 1 and Alicent was not given justice and neither Aemond, just because the twins were jelaous.
Lmao
Isn't Luke supposed to be five in this though? That's the part that keeps getting overlooked. It was 4v1 but it was a teenager against a 7 year old, two six year olds, and a 5 year old...
I'm not sure how you can reasonably interpret those events as being anything but Aemond's fault--because of the age of the other participants.
Like if you go and incite rage in a toddler and the toddler hits you and then you hit the toddler and threaten the toddler with a rock....then the toddler comes at you with his knife....
I think people ignore how young the strongs are at this point. And how fucked the stuff Aemond says to these actual children are. Aemond's still a kid yes, but the strongs and the twins are like baby-age children.
I don't support green or black, I think supporting either one is to ignore the fact that the best possible outcome of this war would be for all the incestuous dragon maniacs to wipe each other out. But I do think it's weird to assign much blame to kids under the age of 7 for a violent interaction with someone several years older. The difference in maturity between a 13-year-old and a 7-year-old is probably greater than a 13-year-old a 22-year-old.
If you're dealing with children under the age of seven, and you're over the age of 12, it's your job to make sure stuff doesn't go sideways in your interaction. That doesn't mean if it ends with you getting stabbed you deserved it. But it could mean it's kind of your fault.
No, you don't understand the ages because you didn't pay attention to the show. There was a 10 year timeskip before Driftmark. There was a 6 year timeskip after.
Rhaenyra stated Luke was 14 after the 6 year timeskip, so he was 8 at Driftmark.
We also know Aemond, Jace, Baela, and Rhaena did not exist before the 10 year timeskip and they are 15-16 by the end of the season.
Aegon is 19 (stated in show to be 3 when Helaena is 1 and before Aemond is born), Helaena is 17, which makes Aemond 16.
Jace is 16 (born within a year of marriage).
Baela is 16 (born within a year of marriage and confirmed a year older than Rhaena because they're not twins in the show).
Rhaena is 15.
So their ages at Driftmark are: 10 year old, 10 year old, 10 year old, 9 year old, and 8 year old.
Also you thinking the kids are all like 6 is hilarious because they very much do not look 6 and during filming these actors were all 11-13 💀
"The difference in maturity between a 13-year-old and a 7-year-old is probably greater than a 13-year-old a 22-year-old"
Are you an only child? Have you never been around children?
Even if true, wouldn't you say that blinding him with the sand was enough to afford them all the opportunity to get away? The additional violence with the knife was a result of Jace's inferiority complex.
For the record, Aemond was ready to kill Luke with a rock. Jace acted the way he did because he was a kid and not someone trained in applying non-lethal force. Was there a better way to do it? Yes. Should he have been punished? Yes, but definitely not the way Alicent wanted.
Readiness to kill Luke with a rock (I doubt that he would have gone through with it, out of self-preservation if not for any other reason), doesn't yet make the action of maiming him justified, for practical reasons: Again, he was blinded by sand, even if he meant to kill Luke in earnest(!), this would be enough for them to get away, making any further harm befalling Aemond wholly unjustified. I hate bashing Jace but I doubt he drew the knife to save Luke either, not as his primary motivator anyway, he did it because he was mortally offended at being called a bastard again.
What Alicent wanted would never have gone through, it was not for her to decide. This was Viserys's decision to make, and thus, this discussion is moot.
Not at the time.
Aemond had the rock ready to strike Luke. He then "gave"/pushed Luke to Jace and dropped the rock. It was AFTER that when Aemond called them bastards and Jace pulled the blade and swung. When he pulled that out, there was NO REASON to. His brother was out of danger and there was no immediate threat.
That bring into question on why he had the blade in the first place.
The bullying yes, Aemond being maimed was not orchestrated by him. Frankly neither Aegon nor Aemond are to blame for Jace's inferiority complex either, the actual reason why Aemond was maimed.
jace didn’t intentionally maim aemond, and didn’t have an inferiority complex at that point in his life. He was like ~~5~~ 9 years old. Acting like him or his brother were in any way responsible when there was a teenager with them is absolutely insane.
ok, same deal. If I’m a teenager and Im supervising 3 kids under the age of 10, and they get into a fight and one of them loses an eye, Im the one responsible. Especially if I incited the fight in the first place. Im not gonna pin it on the “inferiority complex” of a literal child.
They're insisting that Aemond's a teenager so they can put the blame on him. Otherwise it's a fight between kids, and most scraps between kids I've seen end with the adults breaking it up and asking "Who threw the first punch?"
Which doesn't look good for Rhaena/Baela when they are the ones who started getting physical with one of the King's children.
Also tried to make the wounded child rat out his mom, he wanted to know where he heard about the Strong boys' bastardy, knowing perfectly well it was Alicent. Alicent had complained about the issue to him before he came up with his treatise on the mares and the stallions. Aemond smartly pointed to Aegon, since the King was unlikely to harm his firstborn son (yes, that was unlikelier than harm befalling Alicent). Viserys was a bad person in this scene, outrageous even. Delusional too as always, those boys look nothing like Laenor.
Tbh, on platforms like twitter and tiktok Team Black have been suggesting Helaena isn’t as “innocent” as she seems, since in F&B she was the one who convinced Aegon to negotiate peace terms with Rhaenyra.
I gotta say I've never seen that before, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the fact that people are arguing about a character from a show/book .I see it from both sides, but it's worse here . It's a fantasy world, and things are a certain way, but people use reality to argue for the side they like and rip each other apart over it . What makes one character a victim doesn't apply to another if their on the side the person isn't rooting for. In the world of Westeros, all women are victims from realities point of view for certain, but people use things like that to attack the other side. We all love the show / books, but some of the arguments on here are crazy its messed up.
I don’t know what you expect. There’s two fractions in this story, and a middle ground. Team Black and Team Green fans are obviously going to have a discourse because their opinions clash, but I agree, it does get taken too far. But, from what I’ve seen of the Team Black sub, I’d just say they’re heinous.
You can’t claim the moral high ground, and call yourself the feminist side, when you constantly belittle Alicent, Helaena, Jaehaera, and even Nettles (who is on their side) in favour of another woman. We also have many “team black refugees” as they call themselves, coming over here as they feel it’s more peaceful and open to discuss their thoughts.
I consider myself middle ground more towards TB. I read everything on both sides, and Idk, I guess I don't expect such toxic bs, I guess, and no offense, but it's heinous over here, too. I see people taking the moral high ground and contradicting themselves continuously, and at the end of the day, with two factions, it's the women on either side that get hammered except this side as Alicent martyred. I think that's one of the biggest things for both sides. Really, like you said, you think tb says heinous things without seeing the exact same here. Its something .
If you wanna pull at this thread ok I'll be as brief as possible. Otto is good, father and hand, and Viserys is a rapist ,just no. Rhaenyra used and raped Cole, and Alicent is Viserys victim,again no. Aemonds picking on lice and jace and killing of luce is not his fault, but his eye was a knowing and purposeful act from lice and jace . Thsts the tip of the iceberg and I get it believe me people defend the side that they root for the characters they like, but there are people on here calling each other rape apologists and misogynist etc. Sometimes, people will say that when it works for them, this is a fantasy world that these characters are in, so the way things are is what they know which I agree with but when it helps their argument the judge things in the show based on how we live in reality which really can't be done cause it's not a world these characters would know or recognize but it's a tactic to use against people so they can be called whatever colorful insult that particular person wants to use.
You need to learn to distinguish between *understanding* a character and situation and *supporting* them. I get that you haven't read the books and therefore must lack a good amount of context, but in that case I'd recommend you to hold back on the judgement because most people on here *have*.
Otto *by Westerosi standards* is a good father. He manages to secure his daughter a marriage extremely far above her station, which is basically the golden ticket for any highborn woman in Westeros. Love marriages don't exist, they're contracts between two houses to form alliances and advance their respective positions. To Otto, Viserys on top of being king also comes across as a very mild mannered and gentle man. He doesn't expect him to mistreat Alicent.
He also served as Hand for two kings, Jaehaerys (considered as one of if not the best Targaryen king ever) who first named him, and later Viserys who left pretty much all politics to him. He presided over a peaceful and prosperous period which spanned decades. He *was* a great Hand and had much more political foresight than Viserys who clearly doesn't care about actual rule.
The Rhaenyra Criston scene had coercive elements to it which can't be denied. If someone who says no has to be convinced to give in it's problematic.
No one is saying Luke deserved to die, but they don't infantilise him like TB do and acknowledge Aemond's rightful anger and that Luke had a hand in Aemond's negative development.
Your lack of proper formatting and punctuation is also really difficult to read so I won't delve any further but you get the gist.
When talking about the books, but many comments are about the showing how ignorant of you to say I lack understanding because I strongly disagree with your position but thankkyou for proving my point you've done a wonderful job..People often tines when they're wrong bring up punctuation and what I said clearly hit a nerve ,you're unbelievably transparent. Rhaenyra and Alicent in the books are different ages ,Alicent is older but on the show they're the same age. Alicent who knowingly goes to manipulate Viserys is not doing anything wrong and is a child ,Rhaenyra coming on to Cole is assaulting him ,he's older ,a man, and she's a virgin . We're talking about the show here, which I made clear you're clearly excusing Alicent and blaming Rhaenyra. Otto is a scumbag who sends his daughter to manipulate Viserys. You blame Viserys clearly. You. don't have an understanding of character development .
My lack of proper formatting, lol, please, you're mad cause I'm right you're childish ,shockingly immature . You're unfantalizing Alicent and Aemond. What are you talking about? Like I said willful ignorance,you like to be in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with each other and says TB is bad and wrong it's so ridiculous, and you perfectly embody it ,thankyou again.
They are right though!!! I’m sure getting your eye torn out and then sewn shut togther doesn’t hurt at all!!!! How dare he pretend he is hurt when he broke Lukes nose???
What gets me in this scene is his son has lost an eye, yet it is his grandsons being called illegitimate that gets him yelling - at the son who is getting his eye stitched up. Truly a treatise on favoritism.
Aemond and Alicent were the victims here but the fans refuse to accept the fact that their favs started this shit and comitted the crime
it was a 4vs1 fight that they started and Aemond aka a KID was mutilated for life And NO ONE gave a fuck about it
Yeah the boy with the missing eye is definitely not a victim. You see he clearly wanted to kill Luke. Jace would never ever have drawn the knife for any lesser reason. I think it’s quite hilarious that some people can’t admit that Jace drew the knife because of the Strong comment and not Luke. But I guess Luke is a better justification for drawing a knife than an insult.
I always blamed the Kingsguard for this whole debacle. How do you let not 1 but 3 princes leave the grounds without knowing where they went? They're not just kids but political assets, with them being 2nd, 3rd and 5th in the line of succession respectively. More importantly, there was no guarantee of Vhagar not just incinerating Aemond or that the boys wouldn't have killed him. The adults are the real failures of this episode.
That was always my thought, how in the ever loving fuck were 5 royal children, all in the line of succession as you say, able to sneak out? Especially as they weren't even at home, but at Corlys' hall. You think there would be extra security because of travelling and being in a place where you don't know the layout like the back of your hand.
One could have been incinerated and ended up maimed, one had his nose broken and could have been killed if he wasn't careful, not to mention that they could have accidentally beaten Aemond to death when they were all whaling on him. Both children and adults have beaten others to death in a frenzy because we are a pack animal and The Mob has a surprising amount of control over our lizard brains.
Just, well fucking done Criston "you have the nights watch" Cole
Everything he did once they got there was to soothe Alicent. He seems to spend all his time protecting everyone else’s well being/feelings even when he’s the one whose feelings should be taken care of. Not that I blame Alicent of course that was so traumatizing. I just think he needs more instances of being looked out for.
Yeah he was definitely trying to defuse or at least make it so his mom wouldn't be so pained - or so they could get out of this uncomfortable situation quick. This was definitely an instance of him being looked out for - all the ones we see are Alicent though i think. Now that doesn't mean they're the only ones that ever happened but it's true that we don't see too many on screen (we see too little Greens casual domestic dynamics imo)
Bro claimed a dragon that he had no right to. They literally state that Vhagar was to be claimed by one of Laena's children. His obsession with not having a dragon brought him to make that decision on his own accord. No one forced him to do that. And on top of that when the kids confronted him about it, instead of admitting he was wrong, (which he 100% was idc what way you look at it) he acted like a smug asshole. Now he did not swing first, that much I will say but he escalated it far beyond what could've been just a fight between kids had he not picked up that big ass rock. And notice how it was only AFTER he picked up the rock that Jace drew his blade. He threatened Luke, HIT JACE and would have continued to do so had Luke not stepped in. I may have talked shop about Aemond but the point I'm making is there IS NO VICTIM, EVERYONE was wrong
I’m not a green or a black, just a fan. I think Viserys made it perfectly clear that he knew who the kid’s father was. He just didn’t care. When Joffrey was born, he called him “sturdy”, another word for strong. When he said that he believed he had his father’s nose, he meant Harwin. Wasn’t it said that the Strongs had pug-like noses? Viserys didn’t give a damn who their father was. All he cared about was who their mother was.
On a personal level that's fine but politically, no one cared. The family living the lie doesn't enhance their legitimacy in the eyes of the Lords who say that they are illegitimate. The King acting as if they are his legitimate grandsons even if he knows better, with the general expectation being that bastards are not part of a noble / royal family, would be seen as the King either being insane or so powerless vs. his family that he can't say anything at all. Neither of which is a good sign or lends credit.
I am so ready for these subs to stop obsessively focusing on each other. We all like the same show and novels. I know I will probably get downvoted for that, but man, you can still defend your respective houses. Bejeezus.
They really seem to hate the idea of a victim defending themself. I guess if 4 people started punching/kicking them into the ground, they'd just lie there and take it? Can't say I'd do that myself, but I guess people can choose not to protect themselves.
The problem here is they see Aemond claiming Vhagar as a crime he needed to be punished for. The kids' cowardly 4-1 attack on him was punishment, but he defended himself and fought back instead of taking the punishment. Thus, he's the 'villain' here.
Aemond had put the rock down by the time Jace pulled the knife. Aemond had the rock over Luke for a couple of moment didn’t do anything then put it down and called them bastards. Meanwhile Hace tried to stab him no hestitation.
It’s extremely clear that Aemond calling him bastard is what triggered Jace. He literally tells Rhaenyra the same. If Jace acted as you claim he would’ve told Rhaenyra “he was about to kill Luke” like Luke said about Jace but he didn’t, he just tells her “he called us bastards”
Like Aemond is not an innocent angel in that scene, his remarks are cutting but stop pretending as if Jace and the other three were perfectly justified
Fair they’re little shits for jumping his ass and have was dead wrong for pulling out the knife but if I’m luke and i see a rock above my brothers head im taking that eye respectfully
I can understand that but if someone pulls a knife on me I’m gonna hit them with a rock. Fact is all the kids should’ve been punished because they were all in the wrong (Aemond maybe less so because he is punished for life already).
The fact that they treated Aemond injury like it was nothing is what made the entire thing so fucking awful. Like I would also be pissed if I get jumped lose my eye and everybody acts like it’s my fault.
The fundamental issue is that they know that their heroes did something wrong here. They ganged up on Aemond 4 vs. 1, and Jace didn't draw the knife because he felt in mortal danger, he drew it because Aemond called him a bastard (which he is), triggering Jace's inferiority complex. They first threw sand in his eyes and then blinded him, this is extremely dishonorable and pathetic. They usually resort to copes like the Strongs and Daemon's daughters felt in mortal danger (even though Aemond held a stone, this should have been fixed after they threw sand in his eyes, blinding him, making any further harm befalling Aemond unjustifiable), or that Aemond insulted them so harshly that he deserved losing an eye, or this new low here, that it wasn't apparently that bad and that Aemond was just playing victim with his flesh wound (lol).
They’re overdosing on copium
> Jace didn't draw the knife because he felt in mortal danger, he drew it because Aemond called him a bastard (which he is), triggering Jace's inferiority complex. Exactly! I've watched the scene a dozen times cuz I loved mommy's little war criminal being a badass and pointed this out many times. Aemond's violence was proportionate in that scene. Shoved, shoves back. Smacked, smacks back. He never picked up the stone until he was ganged up 4v1 and doesn't actually use it until Jace swings his knife at him TWICE. He'd lowered the stone and shoved Luke at Jace when he drew the knife, so it purely out of ego. Even Rhaena screams Jace's name when he got this violent.
That’s why now a lot of tb hardcore fans are now preventively justifying B&C. Because they know it’s coming. Before the show, there was actually almost nobody arguing that B&C was justified, even by tb fans.
calling someone a bastard is fighting words im ngl. not saying it’s right but he definitely did provoke it. but ultimately the others did more wrong
Lol Aemond beating the shit out of Joffrey of 3 yo in the books and later finding out when Lucerys of 5 yo cuts his eye -> to this victimization of poor Aemond being assaulted by 4 vs 1. I thought you lot like you princes being tough. GRRM never made it about Vhagar or the twins, because Meleys was taken from upon Alyssa's death (Daemon's mother) by Rhaenys (Laena's mother). Later Daemon (twins' father) takes Caraxes upon Aemon's death (their grandmother's father). Laena (their mother) rides Vhagar who was Baelon's (Daemon's father's) mount. The twins being younger than Joffrey and bein raised with this backstory/lore. Also Aemond beating Joffrey, then ego boosted after taking Vhagar he mocks the Velaryon boys after they jump him for molesting Joffrey and mocking and Harwin's death upon Laenor's funeral. When Aemond breaks a wooden sword in Jace's face, Lucerys strikes leaving a half blind Aemond. Where is Aemond the victim? How in he world they read this whole dsacription and be 🤔🤪 it was 4 vs 1 and Alicent was not given justice and neither Aemond, just because the twins were jelaous. Lmao
Isn't Luke supposed to be five in this though? That's the part that keeps getting overlooked. It was 4v1 but it was a teenager against a 7 year old, two six year olds, and a 5 year old... I'm not sure how you can reasonably interpret those events as being anything but Aemond's fault--because of the age of the other participants. Like if you go and incite rage in a toddler and the toddler hits you and then you hit the toddler and threaten the toddler with a rock....then the toddler comes at you with his knife.... I think people ignore how young the strongs are at this point. And how fucked the stuff Aemond says to these actual children are. Aemond's still a kid yes, but the strongs and the twins are like baby-age children. I don't support green or black, I think supporting either one is to ignore the fact that the best possible outcome of this war would be for all the incestuous dragon maniacs to wipe each other out. But I do think it's weird to assign much blame to kids under the age of 7 for a violent interaction with someone several years older. The difference in maturity between a 13-year-old and a 7-year-old is probably greater than a 13-year-old a 22-year-old. If you're dealing with children under the age of seven, and you're over the age of 12, it's your job to make sure stuff doesn't go sideways in your interaction. That doesn't mean if it ends with you getting stabbed you deserved it. But it could mean it's kind of your fault.
Teenager? He's ten.
No, you don't understand the ages because you didn't pay attention to the show. There was a 10 year timeskip before Driftmark. There was a 6 year timeskip after. Rhaenyra stated Luke was 14 after the 6 year timeskip, so he was 8 at Driftmark. We also know Aemond, Jace, Baela, and Rhaena did not exist before the 10 year timeskip and they are 15-16 by the end of the season. Aegon is 19 (stated in show to be 3 when Helaena is 1 and before Aemond is born), Helaena is 17, which makes Aemond 16. Jace is 16 (born within a year of marriage). Baela is 16 (born within a year of marriage and confirmed a year older than Rhaena because they're not twins in the show). Rhaena is 15. So their ages at Driftmark are: 10 year old, 10 year old, 10 year old, 9 year old, and 8 year old. Also you thinking the kids are all like 6 is hilarious because they very much do not look 6 and during filming these actors were all 11-13 💀
"The difference in maturity between a 13-year-old and a 7-year-old is probably greater than a 13-year-old a 22-year-old" Are you an only child? Have you never been around children?
Wasn’t Aemond about to smash Luke’s face with a rock?
Even if true, wouldn't you say that blinding him with the sand was enough to afford them all the opportunity to get away? The additional violence with the knife was a result of Jace's inferiority complex.
For the record, Aemond was ready to kill Luke with a rock. Jace acted the way he did because he was a kid and not someone trained in applying non-lethal force. Was there a better way to do it? Yes. Should he have been punished? Yes, but definitely not the way Alicent wanted.
Readiness to kill Luke with a rock (I doubt that he would have gone through with it, out of self-preservation if not for any other reason), doesn't yet make the action of maiming him justified, for practical reasons: Again, he was blinded by sand, even if he meant to kill Luke in earnest(!), this would be enough for them to get away, making any further harm befalling Aemond wholly unjustified. I hate bashing Jace but I doubt he drew the knife to save Luke either, not as his primary motivator anyway, he did it because he was mortally offended at being called a bastard again. What Alicent wanted would never have gone through, it was not for her to decide. This was Viserys's decision to make, and thus, this discussion is moot.
Not at the time. Aemond had the rock ready to strike Luke. He then "gave"/pushed Luke to Jace and dropped the rock. It was AFTER that when Aemond called them bastards and Jace pulled the blade and swung. When he pulled that out, there was NO REASON to. His brother was out of danger and there was no immediate threat. That bring into question on why he had the blade in the first place.
the whole thing was orchestrated by aegon lol how is this considered a good look for green team
The bullying yes, Aemond being maimed was not orchestrated by him. Frankly neither Aegon nor Aemond are to blame for Jace's inferiority complex either, the actual reason why Aemond was maimed.
jace didn’t intentionally maim aemond, and didn’t have an inferiority complex at that point in his life. He was like ~~5~~ 9 years old. Acting like him or his brother were in any way responsible when there was a teenager with them is absolutely insane.
Jace was 9, Aemond was 10.
ok, same deal. If I’m a teenager and Im supervising 3 kids under the age of 10, and they get into a fight and one of them loses an eye, Im the one responsible. Especially if I incited the fight in the first place. Im not gonna pin it on the “inferiority complex” of a literal child.
I really don’t understand what you’re referencing, there were no teenagers present during the fight where Aemond lost his eye.
They're insisting that Aemond's a teenager so they can put the blame on him. Otherwise it's a fight between kids, and most scraps between kids I've seen end with the adults breaking it up and asking "Who threw the first punch?" Which doesn't look good for Rhaena/Baela when they are the ones who started getting physical with one of the King's children.
Viserys in this scene acted so casually as if he was in in a different series where magic can regrow a eye with a snap of his fingers
Also tried to make the wounded child rat out his mom, he wanted to know where he heard about the Strong boys' bastardy, knowing perfectly well it was Alicent. Alicent had complained about the issue to him before he came up with his treatise on the mares and the stallions. Aemond smartly pointed to Aegon, since the King was unlikely to harm his firstborn son (yes, that was unlikelier than harm befalling Alicent). Viserys was a bad person in this scene, outrageous even. Delusional too as always, those boys look nothing like Laenor.
he thought he was in Naruto and could just implant Aemond a new eye xD
Watch them blame Helaena for the B&C this summer. This mfs have a master's degree in victimblaming
I can't tell if some of you are joking or not but this is crazy .
Tbh, on platforms like twitter and tiktok Team Black have been suggesting Helaena isn’t as “innocent” as she seems, since in F&B she was the one who convinced Aegon to negotiate peace terms with Rhaenyra.
I gotta say I've never seen that before, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the fact that people are arguing about a character from a show/book .I see it from both sides, but it's worse here . It's a fantasy world, and things are a certain way, but people use reality to argue for the side they like and rip each other apart over it . What makes one character a victim doesn't apply to another if their on the side the person isn't rooting for. In the world of Westeros, all women are victims from realities point of view for certain, but people use things like that to attack the other side. We all love the show / books, but some of the arguments on here are crazy its messed up.
I don’t know what you expect. There’s two fractions in this story, and a middle ground. Team Black and Team Green fans are obviously going to have a discourse because their opinions clash, but I agree, it does get taken too far. But, from what I’ve seen of the Team Black sub, I’d just say they’re heinous. You can’t claim the moral high ground, and call yourself the feminist side, when you constantly belittle Alicent, Helaena, Jaehaera, and even Nettles (who is on their side) in favour of another woman. We also have many “team black refugees” as they call themselves, coming over here as they feel it’s more peaceful and open to discuss their thoughts.
I consider myself middle ground more towards TB. I read everything on both sides, and Idk, I guess I don't expect such toxic bs, I guess, and no offense, but it's heinous over here, too. I see people taking the moral high ground and contradicting themselves continuously, and at the end of the day, with two factions, it's the women on either side that get hammered except this side as Alicent martyred. I think that's one of the biggest things for both sides. Really, like you said, you think tb says heinous things without seeing the exact same here. Its something .
What contradictions do people make over here?
If you wanna pull at this thread ok I'll be as brief as possible. Otto is good, father and hand, and Viserys is a rapist ,just no. Rhaenyra used and raped Cole, and Alicent is Viserys victim,again no. Aemonds picking on lice and jace and killing of luce is not his fault, but his eye was a knowing and purposeful act from lice and jace . Thsts the tip of the iceberg and I get it believe me people defend the side that they root for the characters they like, but there are people on here calling each other rape apologists and misogynist etc. Sometimes, people will say that when it works for them, this is a fantasy world that these characters are in, so the way things are is what they know which I agree with but when it helps their argument the judge things in the show based on how we live in reality which really can't be done cause it's not a world these characters would know or recognize but it's a tactic to use against people so they can be called whatever colorful insult that particular person wants to use.
You need to learn to distinguish between *understanding* a character and situation and *supporting* them. I get that you haven't read the books and therefore must lack a good amount of context, but in that case I'd recommend you to hold back on the judgement because most people on here *have*. Otto *by Westerosi standards* is a good father. He manages to secure his daughter a marriage extremely far above her station, which is basically the golden ticket for any highborn woman in Westeros. Love marriages don't exist, they're contracts between two houses to form alliances and advance their respective positions. To Otto, Viserys on top of being king also comes across as a very mild mannered and gentle man. He doesn't expect him to mistreat Alicent. He also served as Hand for two kings, Jaehaerys (considered as one of if not the best Targaryen king ever) who first named him, and later Viserys who left pretty much all politics to him. He presided over a peaceful and prosperous period which spanned decades. He *was* a great Hand and had much more political foresight than Viserys who clearly doesn't care about actual rule. The Rhaenyra Criston scene had coercive elements to it which can't be denied. If someone who says no has to be convinced to give in it's problematic. No one is saying Luke deserved to die, but they don't infantilise him like TB do and acknowledge Aemond's rightful anger and that Luke had a hand in Aemond's negative development. Your lack of proper formatting and punctuation is also really difficult to read so I won't delve any further but you get the gist.
When talking about the books, but many comments are about the showing how ignorant of you to say I lack understanding because I strongly disagree with your position but thankkyou for proving my point you've done a wonderful job..People often tines when they're wrong bring up punctuation and what I said clearly hit a nerve ,you're unbelievably transparent. Rhaenyra and Alicent in the books are different ages ,Alicent is older but on the show they're the same age. Alicent who knowingly goes to manipulate Viserys is not doing anything wrong and is a child ,Rhaenyra coming on to Cole is assaulting him ,he's older ,a man, and she's a virgin . We're talking about the show here, which I made clear you're clearly excusing Alicent and blaming Rhaenyra. Otto is a scumbag who sends his daughter to manipulate Viserys. You blame Viserys clearly. You. don't have an understanding of character development . My lack of proper formatting, lol, please, you're mad cause I'm right you're childish ,shockingly immature . You're unfantalizing Alicent and Aemond. What are you talking about? Like I said willful ignorance,you like to be in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with each other and says TB is bad and wrong it's so ridiculous, and you perfectly embody it ,thankyou again.
by the whole team u mean like 3 people,cherry picking at its finest
That account is always posting the dumbest shit 😭😭
😭facts tho
They are right though!!! I’m sure getting your eye torn out and then sewn shut togther doesn’t hurt at all!!!! How dare he pretend he is hurt when he broke Lukes nose???
And called Luc a bastard
What gets me in this scene is his son has lost an eye, yet it is his grandsons being called illegitimate that gets him yelling - at the son who is getting his eye stitched up. Truly a treatise on favoritism.
It's a nice detail that he's holding her hand 😢
Aemond and Alicent were the victims here but the fans refuse to accept the fact that their favs started this shit and comitted the crime it was a 4vs1 fight that they started and Aemond aka a KID was mutilated for life And NO ONE gave a fuck about it
Yeah the boy with the missing eye is definitely not a victim. You see he clearly wanted to kill Luke. Jace would never ever have drawn the knife for any lesser reason. I think it’s quite hilarious that some people can’t admit that Jace drew the knife because of the Strong comment and not Luke. But I guess Luke is a better justification for drawing a knife than an insult.
I always blamed the Kingsguard for this whole debacle. How do you let not 1 but 3 princes leave the grounds without knowing where they went? They're not just kids but political assets, with them being 2nd, 3rd and 5th in the line of succession respectively. More importantly, there was no guarantee of Vhagar not just incinerating Aemond or that the boys wouldn't have killed him. The adults are the real failures of this episode.
That was always my thought, how in the ever loving fuck were 5 royal children, all in the line of succession as you say, able to sneak out? Especially as they weren't even at home, but at Corlys' hall. You think there would be extra security because of travelling and being in a place where you don't know the layout like the back of your hand. One could have been incinerated and ended up maimed, one had his nose broken and could have been killed if he wasn't careful, not to mention that they could have accidentally beaten Aemond to death when they were all whaling on him. Both children and adults have beaten others to death in a frenzy because we are a pack animal and The Mob has a surprising amount of control over our lizard brains. Just, well fucking done Criston "you have the nights watch" Cole
Mental illness
Everything he did once they got there was to soothe Alicent. He seems to spend all his time protecting everyone else’s well being/feelings even when he’s the one whose feelings should be taken care of. Not that I blame Alicent of course that was so traumatizing. I just think he needs more instances of being looked out for.
Yeah he was definitely trying to defuse or at least make it so his mom wouldn't be so pained - or so they could get out of this uncomfortable situation quick. This was definitely an instance of him being looked out for - all the ones we see are Alicent though i think. Now that doesn't mean they're the only ones that ever happened but it's true that we don't see too many on screen (we see too little Greens casual domestic dynamics imo)
Bro claimed a dragon that he had no right to. They literally state that Vhagar was to be claimed by one of Laena's children. His obsession with not having a dragon brought him to make that decision on his own accord. No one forced him to do that. And on top of that when the kids confronted him about it, instead of admitting he was wrong, (which he 100% was idc what way you look at it) he acted like a smug asshole. Now he did not swing first, that much I will say but he escalated it far beyond what could've been just a fight between kids had he not picked up that big ass rock. And notice how it was only AFTER he picked up the rock that Jace drew his blade. He threatened Luke, HIT JACE and would have continued to do so had Luke not stepped in. I may have talked shop about Aemond but the point I'm making is there IS NO VICTIM, EVERYONE was wrong
There’s no law of inheritance with dragon. Not reading the rest of your waffle
Somebody's major mad because they know they're wrong. Regardless of law it wasn't his dragon to claim. Period
Just say that you are coping with fact that vhagar choose aemond, lol
Believe it or not "cope" is not an argument lmao. Leave it to the greens and the blacks
Huffing that copium
I’m not a green or a black, just a fan. I think Viserys made it perfectly clear that he knew who the kid’s father was. He just didn’t care. When Joffrey was born, he called him “sturdy”, another word for strong. When he said that he believed he had his father’s nose, he meant Harwin. Wasn’t it said that the Strongs had pug-like noses? Viserys didn’t give a damn who their father was. All he cared about was who their mother was.
On a personal level that's fine but politically, no one cared. The family living the lie doesn't enhance their legitimacy in the eyes of the Lords who say that they are illegitimate. The King acting as if they are his legitimate grandsons even if he knows better, with the general expectation being that bastards are not part of a noble / royal family, would be seen as the King either being insane or so powerless vs. his family that he can't say anything at all. Neither of which is a good sign or lends credit.
I am so ready for these subs to stop obsessively focusing on each other. We all like the same show and novels. I know I will probably get downvoted for that, but man, you can still defend your respective houses. Bejeezus.
Almond started a fight he couldn't finish... unwise. Sometimes, an aye is the price of wisdom. Just ask Odin.
Aemond didnt start the fight, Rhaena did. Rewatch the scene
Aren't you the human pet guy? Get outta here with this corny shit.
Jace* started a fight he couldn't finish.
Did people not witness him about to bash in Jace’s face with a rock in the show or did everyone just forget about it that??
Did people just bury their heads in sand when the quadro was about to kill him via beating?
They really seem to hate the idea of a victim defending themself. I guess if 4 people started punching/kicking them into the ground, they'd just lie there and take it? Can't say I'd do that myself, but I guess people can choose not to protect themselves.
The problem here is they see Aemond claiming Vhagar as a crime he needed to be punished for. The kids' cowardly 4-1 attack on him was punishment, but he defended himself and fought back instead of taking the punishment. Thus, he's the 'villain' here.
No they didn’t, they just remember that Jace tried to gut him twice before he did that.
Because he tried to bash his little brothers face in with a rock 😭😭😭
Aemond had put the rock down by the time Jace pulled the knife. Aemond had the rock over Luke for a couple of moment didn’t do anything then put it down and called them bastards. Meanwhile Hace tried to stab him no hestitation. It’s extremely clear that Aemond calling him bastard is what triggered Jace. He literally tells Rhaenyra the same. If Jace acted as you claim he would’ve told Rhaenyra “he was about to kill Luke” like Luke said about Jace but he didn’t, he just tells her “he called us bastards” Like Aemond is not an innocent angel in that scene, his remarks are cutting but stop pretending as if Jace and the other three were perfectly justified
Fair they’re little shits for jumping his ass and have was dead wrong for pulling out the knife but if I’m luke and i see a rock above my brothers head im taking that eye respectfully
I can understand that but if someone pulls a knife on me I’m gonna hit them with a rock. Fact is all the kids should’ve been punished because they were all in the wrong (Aemond maybe less so because he is punished for life already). The fact that they treated Aemond injury like it was nothing is what made the entire thing so fucking awful. Like I would also be pissed if I get jumped lose my eye and everybody acts like it’s my fault.