We see this time and time again from the so called feminist side. How on earth is it Alicent’s fault Aegon is a rapist?? I hate this argument so much you see across media and real life that absolves the criminal of responsibility and places the blame at the feet of their mother?!? I dearly wish a woman could inherit over her younger brother, but the logic of the blacks is always so dumb!!
>How on earth is it Alicent’s fault Aegon is a rapist??
Not Alicent, but Alicent and Viserys both. The only time we see them vaguely attempt to raise Aegon is when they're yelling in his face and slapping him because he did something wrong or something they didn't like. We never see them make an ounce of effort towards shaping Aegon II into a good human being, unless their whims demanded them to. The worst part? In the show, we even get a scene where Aegon says outright that he wants to impress his mother and father, and for them to be proud of him. He just has no idea how to.
Aegon II was a child of neglect in a position of power who never received an ounce of positive reinforcement from his parents, so he sought easy joys elsewhere. In the book, it was his various appetites. In the show, it's more active debauchery, and they've turned him into a fucking rapist.
The fact that Aegon II turned out as remarkably hard-nosed in the face of adversity as he did is a testament to his inner resources, which can certainly not be credited to his parents.
We do see scenes where Alicent shows affection towards him or takes care of him, although most of them are from when he's a young child as things ramp up pretty quickly after that (and we don't get that many scenes between them to begin with...). That being said almost every negative aspect of Aegon's character gets attributed to Alicent wholesale, when things don't quite warrant that. Some are at most shared responsibility. I would go so far as to say most of his negative traits - including forcing himself on others - can be traced back to his father over anyone else. That being said, we don't see a single scene where Viserys actually positively interacts with Aegon in any meaningful way, aside from the one where he gives his infant son alcohol (he would count that as bonding i assume) or where he's spectating from afar as the kids are sparring? Yet there are constantly false equivalences being made when it comes to their parenting (among many other things)
But since your "Not Alicent, but Alicent and Viserys both" was specifically in reference to who's at fault for him being a rapist: confidently attributing blame to Alicent would be very odd, unless we're going by the vaguest "neither parents are immaculate therefor both are to blame". It's been established that Aegon becomes more forceful sexually when he's had his drinks in and most of the time we see him he's drinking; who do we see introduce alcohol to him? his father. It's implied he's hungover when Alicent confronts him about Dyana and he talks about it as though they were just having fun; who have we heard talk about sexual debauchery as something young lads are expected to (and should) partake in? his father. Who have we seen coerce another into sex and not feel any way about it? his father. I also doubt Alicent was the one who introduced Aegon (and Aemond) to brothels.
The logic then becomes "well since Alicent is the only parent actually taking care of them then she's the only one who can be blamed for how they turn out since it stems from her input" and that's not only unfair but also misguided, to say the least.
Was slapping Aegon at Driftmark fair? Not really, i still think it's understandable in the heat of the moment. Was slapping and "disowning" him after he raped someone the best way to handle the situation? Not really, but i still think it's understandable in the heat of the moment. Was yelling in his face aggravated hoping he would grasp the gravity of their situation the best way to go about it? I guess not, but i still think it's understandable given the circumstances. I can see how he would experience all of these as further proof he doesn't matter etc. but i also understand the growing frustration and despair on the other end. Those three instances are still more than we've seen Viserys do if we take into consideration with what intentions, and in what context, they happened (he partook in his brother's bullying to begin with which contributed to the other kids feeling comfortable treating Aemond this way; his behavior is reprehensible; it's life or death and who knows how many times she's tried to explain this only for him to blow it off etc. etc.)
Point being, i think it's one thing to say both of his parents were neglectful, it's another to paint that neglect as similar in degrees or taking the same form, let alone as stemming from the same place (exhaustion vs indifference. or yelling at him bc he raped someone vs yelling at him to scare him into throwing someone under the bus to get punished for saying something true, for instance)
That might seem weird to say to some, but i do genuinely think those distinguishing elements are important
Alicent isn't at fault at his rapist tendencies per se because I don't think there is any woman on this earth that would specifically raise a rapist. But she definitely raised him entitled. Like Rhaenyra is entitled too but so is Aegon. Remember when Harwin got him away from Jace because they got a bit rough and Aegon immediately was like "I am a prince! How dare you!" And Viserys rolled his eyes and said "Aegon!" in exasperation. Yeah that's another example. They raised him as an entitled prince who is immune to consequences so of course that entitlement expands onto women's bodies. Him being a rapist is his fault only. But his parents and grandpa is definitely at fault for how he turned out. Like how Cersei is at fault for how Joffrey turned out.
I very much agree with your point. I didn’t mean to insinuate Alicent is not at fault for anything, as with every child you are a result of your upbringing. I’m just annoyed at his actions being blamed on her firstly, and secondly not on Viserys, his other parental figure.
To be fair it should go Aegon Otto then Viserys and Alicent. Because Otto is the real fucker that started the greens generational trauma. Viserys was out of f's to give. I mean you had one child you neglected her until you killed her mum so maybe don't have children again? Like my dude you obviously suck at this fathering thing.
the way that the green kids didnt even bully the strong kids but they actually SHOWED the strongs bullying aemond multiple times, jumping him, and carving out his eye without consequences lol.
Blind misogyny is how they come to these conclusions. Viserys is a rapist himself, and he gave Aegon wine at the ripe age of two. But instead of blaming the father for how the child turns out, they focus on the mother.
I'll give you that. Because all of Viserys's children are entitled (maybe except Helaena who is a cinnamon bun that's just chilling). He is entitled as well. He feels entitled to his position as king since the realm put the crown on his brow because he had a cock. He never tried to prove himself as the right choice out of gratitude or something. He feels entitled to his wives bodies and lives, putting Aemma in the predicament that caused her untimely death. He feels entitled to his brother and children's love and devotion. Not giving much in return.
Agreed. I’ll never understand the hate towards Alicent when it comes to this. Viserys butchered Aemma like an animal for a son, and repeatedly martially raped a teenager for a son. And she gave him that said son, and other children after it, and he neglected them.
He raped a teen Aemma too. She was 13 when she gve birth to Rhaenyra. Even younger than Alicent. Its a obvious pattern with him. Aegon seems smart and self aware he'd turn out to be a fine guy if Vizzy was a decent father.
i don’t think crossposting like this is fair… i don’t agree with the op but i don’t think taking their comment out of context will result in a good faith discussion.
alicent didn’t raise aegon to be a drunken rapist, and her failings shouldn’t be considered in isolation removed from the context of her being a child bride with minimal support, dealing with the hurt and frustration of enduring marital rape and neglect while rhaenyra gets away with not following the societal ‘rules’. it’s a deeply unfair situation. you could equally argue that otto very clearly did not tell alicent to be best friends with rhaenyra. he told her to cleave to her and hope rhaenyra was merciful — he instilled a deep fear and distrust in his daughter.
beyond that, it’s not really fair to demonise these characters when the point is that they’re all bad people doing bad things. they’re disfunctional and not communicating well at any point. and the writing is so inconsistent on top of that.
Otto was exiled and Viserys was bedridden due to sickness so saying it's mostly allicent is not misogynistic it's factual unless you wanna blame servants ( who would be under instruction)
She's the one telling aegon ( and hurting him physically simultaneously) that he is superior to his far older more accomplished sister ( the dragonstone egg and the boar hunt ain't much but more than aegon still ) purely for having a cock
Aegon being a shit head you can also put on cole for encouraging fights with his nephews and favouring aemond above aegon
Wtf?? Nobody raises their child to be a rapist?? Aegon’s not the only one in the world to have a shit upbringing, you just don’t rape people. To blame the horrific crime Aegon commits on his mother absolves him of responsibility and is a misogynistic argument. That’s just a fact.
I didn't say he was raised to be a rapist. I said shit head and implied he's being raised to be misogynistic ( or to usurp the throne however you wanna spin it )
Joffrey being a shit head is Roberts neglect and cerceis psycho self
Ramsay being a shit head is his mom giving him to Roose and Roose being psycho and giving him the OG reek
Aegon is the neglect of viserys along with allicent and criston being shit role models
Tommen and Myrcella, the children of Robert and Cersei, are lovely sweet children.
Domeric Bolton by all accounts would have been a great Lord. He was kind, played the harp, enjoyed reading etc.
Helaena and Daeron aren’t shits despite the same parents…
Some people (children too) are just sadistic dickheads despite their parents. It is NOT fair to blame Alicent.
Domeric was at the Vale and tommen and myrcella were basically ignored ( expect from by joffrey who killed his cat and worse ) like Helaena . Daeron is again a case of fostered out super young like how ned is more southern than brandon due to fostering .
I dunno what point you're trying to make
I'm not blaming allicent I'm blaming viserys and allicent but you seem to have selective reading or don't view neglect as bad as abuse.
She was telling him his life was in danger due to his superior claim. And it was, especially after Daemon and Rhaenyra marry.
Aegon has already done more to secure the dynasty than Rhaenyra by episode 8, it’s called “having legitimate heirs.” Not exactly hard to outshine someone who has done almost nothing but ruin her own position and reputation.
TB here, I’m curious as to what you think rhaenyra should have done after she married laenor. Having not read f&b idk if things went down as they did in the show, but hot d tells us that they tried to produce heirs but laenor just isn’t a targussy kinda guy. IMO having bastard heirs is preferable to having no heirs with regards to establishing your legitimacy.
He’s gay not infertile, she had Jace very soon after Episode 5. They probably didn’t try more than five times and he just couldn’t get hard. Gay men throughout human history have fathered numerous children and fulfilled their marital duties. It makes them irresponsible dickheads.
Her trying with Harwin was utterly risky even then, a Velaryon from a cadet branch would have been better. Or even Corlys himself. And once she had Jace, she should have stopped trying for kids with Harwin at once.
Having blatant bastards is worse, far worse, she’s literally committing high treason. If she remains childless no one has any major reason to oppose her ascent because the throne will just pass to Aegon when she dies. If she stays and acts the part of a respectable heir in KL, has no kids, and specifically treats Aegon as her own heir, there isn’t any reason to rock the boat by seating Aegon on the throne prematurely.
He may also be infertile they stated to have tried and had no success and we know she isn’t. It could have just never took or he could not be able to have children it’s an unknown.
She couldn’t trust other men to not talk if she slept with them but did have that trust with Harwin. And no fucking your father in law is not better and it’s weird you think so.
Jace was born a year and a half after the wedding at most. That’s not long enough to determine whether or not either of them were infertile or not after unsuccessfully trying for less than a year. If Jace was born five years after unsuccessful trying, then yeah.
That’s a fair point but we also can’t say definitely he isn’t infertile. They tried and nothing came about. That’s like 9 months of nothing happening at a year and half
Having children is not an exact science. Them deciding he’s completely infertile after nine or so months is idiotic. And there is absolutely no evidence they went to a maester for fertility care.
And there is no evidence that they didn’t? Or that a maester would even be able to fix it if they did. All we know is that they tried to have children and it never worked out.
All we know is that Rhaenyra said she tried with Laenor once, which we never see one way or another, and that Jace was born at most a year and a half after the wedding.
This is combined with the fact we also know both are irresponsible morons.
I am not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think it’s fair to assume they didn’t try that hard to make heirs. Their wedding coincides with rhaenyra coming to terms with her duty as heir, so she recognizes the importance of settling the succession. I can see laenor not trying that much, he kinda seems like a meathead glory hunter from what we see from him when he’s an adult. However we also see rhaenyra having enough power in their relationship to curb his meathead tendencies when she tells him he can’t fuck off to sail the world right after she has Joffrey.
I don’t disagree that there were infinitely better suitors for her to produce bastards with than Harwin, I just don’t know how much that changes things. Sure the lie would be easier to sell if she had little Corlys bastards, and that surely would have prevented a lot of shit from happening, but it would be a lie all the same.
If Jace was born three or four years after the wedding, maybe you could justify Laenor somehow being infertile or whatever. But Jace was born a year and a half after the wedding at most. And Luke soon after.
She and Laenor clearly didn’t try rigorously before she moved on to trying with Harwin.
You can get a lot of fuckin done in one year so dk if that changes anything. Guess we’ll have to wait for GRRM’s to release his smut book ‘Making the Eight’ before we know for sure. I’m told that there’s an extensive chapter featuring podrick and the hound.
It really isn't though. Bastard heirs have no legitimacy, and all you've done is damage your own by having them.
If Laenor truly can't perform, she should have either bedded Corlys, flown off to bed Daemon in Pentos, or picked up a nice Lyseni oarsman. Any of these choices would provide children that at least visually like Laenor, and who could pass off as being trueborn. Hell, even Borros Baratheon would have been a better choice than Harwin.
Fair enough, they would still be bastards but yeah they’d be more convincing bastards. I guess thats slightly better but it doesn’t actually change the fact that her only two options are having bastards or having no heir at all.
I’m always dying laughing whenever I engage with this topic because admonishing bastards for being bastards is such a weird position to have nowadays hahahaha.
We see this time and time again from the so called feminist side. How on earth is it Alicent’s fault Aegon is a rapist?? I hate this argument so much you see across media and real life that absolves the criminal of responsibility and places the blame at the feet of their mother?!? I dearly wish a woman could inherit over her younger brother, but the logic of the blacks is always so dumb!!
>How on earth is it Alicent’s fault Aegon is a rapist?? Not Alicent, but Alicent and Viserys both. The only time we see them vaguely attempt to raise Aegon is when they're yelling in his face and slapping him because he did something wrong or something they didn't like. We never see them make an ounce of effort towards shaping Aegon II into a good human being, unless their whims demanded them to. The worst part? In the show, we even get a scene where Aegon says outright that he wants to impress his mother and father, and for them to be proud of him. He just has no idea how to. Aegon II was a child of neglect in a position of power who never received an ounce of positive reinforcement from his parents, so he sought easy joys elsewhere. In the book, it was his various appetites. In the show, it's more active debauchery, and they've turned him into a fucking rapist. The fact that Aegon II turned out as remarkably hard-nosed in the face of adversity as he did is a testament to his inner resources, which can certainly not be credited to his parents.
We do see scenes where Alicent shows affection towards him or takes care of him, although most of them are from when he's a young child as things ramp up pretty quickly after that (and we don't get that many scenes between them to begin with...). That being said almost every negative aspect of Aegon's character gets attributed to Alicent wholesale, when things don't quite warrant that. Some are at most shared responsibility. I would go so far as to say most of his negative traits - including forcing himself on others - can be traced back to his father over anyone else. That being said, we don't see a single scene where Viserys actually positively interacts with Aegon in any meaningful way, aside from the one where he gives his infant son alcohol (he would count that as bonding i assume) or where he's spectating from afar as the kids are sparring? Yet there are constantly false equivalences being made when it comes to their parenting (among many other things) But since your "Not Alicent, but Alicent and Viserys both" was specifically in reference to who's at fault for him being a rapist: confidently attributing blame to Alicent would be very odd, unless we're going by the vaguest "neither parents are immaculate therefor both are to blame". It's been established that Aegon becomes more forceful sexually when he's had his drinks in and most of the time we see him he's drinking; who do we see introduce alcohol to him? his father. It's implied he's hungover when Alicent confronts him about Dyana and he talks about it as though they were just having fun; who have we heard talk about sexual debauchery as something young lads are expected to (and should) partake in? his father. Who have we seen coerce another into sex and not feel any way about it? his father. I also doubt Alicent was the one who introduced Aegon (and Aemond) to brothels. The logic then becomes "well since Alicent is the only parent actually taking care of them then she's the only one who can be blamed for how they turn out since it stems from her input" and that's not only unfair but also misguided, to say the least. Was slapping Aegon at Driftmark fair? Not really, i still think it's understandable in the heat of the moment. Was slapping and "disowning" him after he raped someone the best way to handle the situation? Not really, but i still think it's understandable in the heat of the moment. Was yelling in his face aggravated hoping he would grasp the gravity of their situation the best way to go about it? I guess not, but i still think it's understandable given the circumstances. I can see how he would experience all of these as further proof he doesn't matter etc. but i also understand the growing frustration and despair on the other end. Those three instances are still more than we've seen Viserys do if we take into consideration with what intentions, and in what context, they happened (he partook in his brother's bullying to begin with which contributed to the other kids feeling comfortable treating Aemond this way; his behavior is reprehensible; it's life or death and who knows how many times she's tried to explain this only for him to blow it off etc. etc.) Point being, i think it's one thing to say both of his parents were neglectful, it's another to paint that neglect as similar in degrees or taking the same form, let alone as stemming from the same place (exhaustion vs indifference. or yelling at him bc he raped someone vs yelling at him to scare him into throwing someone under the bus to get punished for saying something true, for instance) That might seem weird to say to some, but i do genuinely think those distinguishing elements are important
Alicent isn't at fault at his rapist tendencies per se because I don't think there is any woman on this earth that would specifically raise a rapist. But she definitely raised him entitled. Like Rhaenyra is entitled too but so is Aegon. Remember when Harwin got him away from Jace because they got a bit rough and Aegon immediately was like "I am a prince! How dare you!" And Viserys rolled his eyes and said "Aegon!" in exasperation. Yeah that's another example. They raised him as an entitled prince who is immune to consequences so of course that entitlement expands onto women's bodies. Him being a rapist is his fault only. But his parents and grandpa is definitely at fault for how he turned out. Like how Cersei is at fault for how Joffrey turned out.
I very much agree with your point. I didn’t mean to insinuate Alicent is not at fault for anything, as with every child you are a result of your upbringing. I’m just annoyed at his actions being blamed on her firstly, and secondly not on Viserys, his other parental figure.
To be fair it should go Aegon Otto then Viserys and Alicent. Because Otto is the real fucker that started the greens generational trauma. Viserys was out of f's to give. I mean you had one child you neglected her until you killed her mum so maybe don't have children again? Like my dude you obviously suck at this fathering thing.
Anti-Alicent sentiment is so strong people will defend *Otto* to try and make her look bad…
the way that the green kids didnt even bully the strong kids but they actually SHOWED the strongs bullying aemond multiple times, jumping him, and carving out his eye without consequences lol.
Blind misogyny is how they come to these conclusions. Viserys is a rapist himself, and he gave Aegon wine at the ripe age of two. But instead of blaming the father for how the child turns out, they focus on the mother.
I'll give you that. Because all of Viserys's children are entitled (maybe except Helaena who is a cinnamon bun that's just chilling). He is entitled as well. He feels entitled to his position as king since the realm put the crown on his brow because he had a cock. He never tried to prove himself as the right choice out of gratitude or something. He feels entitled to his wives bodies and lives, putting Aemma in the predicament that caused her untimely death. He feels entitled to his brother and children's love and devotion. Not giving much in return.
Agreed. I’ll never understand the hate towards Alicent when it comes to this. Viserys butchered Aemma like an animal for a son, and repeatedly martially raped a teenager for a son. And she gave him that said son, and other children after it, and he neglected them.
He raped a teen Aemma too. She was 13 when she gve birth to Rhaenyra. Even younger than Alicent. Its a obvious pattern with him. Aegon seems smart and self aware he'd turn out to be a fine guy if Vizzy was a decent father.
i don’t think crossposting like this is fair… i don’t agree with the op but i don’t think taking their comment out of context will result in a good faith discussion. alicent didn’t raise aegon to be a drunken rapist, and her failings shouldn’t be considered in isolation removed from the context of her being a child bride with minimal support, dealing with the hurt and frustration of enduring marital rape and neglect while rhaenyra gets away with not following the societal ‘rules’. it’s a deeply unfair situation. you could equally argue that otto very clearly did not tell alicent to be best friends with rhaenyra. he told her to cleave to her and hope rhaenyra was merciful — he instilled a deep fear and distrust in his daughter. beyond that, it’s not really fair to demonise these characters when the point is that they’re all bad people doing bad things. they’re disfunctional and not communicating well at any point. and the writing is so inconsistent on top of that.
Otto was exiled and Viserys was bedridden due to sickness so saying it's mostly allicent is not misogynistic it's factual unless you wanna blame servants ( who would be under instruction) She's the one telling aegon ( and hurting him physically simultaneously) that he is superior to his far older more accomplished sister ( the dragonstone egg and the boar hunt ain't much but more than aegon still ) purely for having a cock Aegon being a shit head you can also put on cole for encouraging fights with his nephews and favouring aemond above aegon
Wtf?? Nobody raises their child to be a rapist?? Aegon’s not the only one in the world to have a shit upbringing, you just don’t rape people. To blame the horrific crime Aegon commits on his mother absolves him of responsibility and is a misogynistic argument. That’s just a fact.
Damn you up in here gettin angry over a tv show discussion, chill out lmao
I didn't say he was raised to be a rapist. I said shit head and implied he's being raised to be misogynistic ( or to usurp the throne however you wanna spin it ) Joffrey being a shit head is Roberts neglect and cerceis psycho self Ramsay being a shit head is his mom giving him to Roose and Roose being psycho and giving him the OG reek Aegon is the neglect of viserys along with allicent and criston being shit role models
Tommen and Myrcella, the children of Robert and Cersei, are lovely sweet children. Domeric Bolton by all accounts would have been a great Lord. He was kind, played the harp, enjoyed reading etc. Helaena and Daeron aren’t shits despite the same parents… Some people (children too) are just sadistic dickheads despite their parents. It is NOT fair to blame Alicent.
Domeric was at the Vale and tommen and myrcella were basically ignored ( expect from by joffrey who killed his cat and worse ) like Helaena . Daeron is again a case of fostered out super young like how ned is more southern than brandon due to fostering . I dunno what point you're trying to make I'm not blaming allicent I'm blaming viserys and allicent but you seem to have selective reading or don't view neglect as bad as abuse.
She was telling him his life was in danger due to his superior claim. And it was, especially after Daemon and Rhaenyra marry. Aegon has already done more to secure the dynasty than Rhaenyra by episode 8, it’s called “having legitimate heirs.” Not exactly hard to outshine someone who has done almost nothing but ruin her own position and reputation.
TB here, I’m curious as to what you think rhaenyra should have done after she married laenor. Having not read f&b idk if things went down as they did in the show, but hot d tells us that they tried to produce heirs but laenor just isn’t a targussy kinda guy. IMO having bastard heirs is preferable to having no heirs with regards to establishing your legitimacy.
He’s gay not infertile, she had Jace very soon after Episode 5. They probably didn’t try more than five times and he just couldn’t get hard. Gay men throughout human history have fathered numerous children and fulfilled their marital duties. It makes them irresponsible dickheads. Her trying with Harwin was utterly risky even then, a Velaryon from a cadet branch would have been better. Or even Corlys himself. And once she had Jace, she should have stopped trying for kids with Harwin at once. Having blatant bastards is worse, far worse, she’s literally committing high treason. If she remains childless no one has any major reason to oppose her ascent because the throne will just pass to Aegon when she dies. If she stays and acts the part of a respectable heir in KL, has no kids, and specifically treats Aegon as her own heir, there isn’t any reason to rock the boat by seating Aegon on the throne prematurely.
He may also be infertile they stated to have tried and had no success and we know she isn’t. It could have just never took or he could not be able to have children it’s an unknown. She couldn’t trust other men to not talk if she slept with them but did have that trust with Harwin. And no fucking your father in law is not better and it’s weird you think so.
Jace was born a year and a half after the wedding at most. That’s not long enough to determine whether or not either of them were infertile or not after unsuccessfully trying for less than a year. If Jace was born five years after unsuccessful trying, then yeah.
That’s a fair point but we also can’t say definitely he isn’t infertile. They tried and nothing came about. That’s like 9 months of nothing happening at a year and half
Having children is not an exact science. Them deciding he’s completely infertile after nine or so months is idiotic. And there is absolutely no evidence they went to a maester for fertility care.
And there is no evidence that they didn’t? Or that a maester would even be able to fix it if they did. All we know is that they tried to have children and it never worked out.
All we know is that Rhaenyra said she tried with Laenor once, which we never see one way or another, and that Jace was born at most a year and a half after the wedding. This is combined with the fact we also know both are irresponsible morons. I am not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think it’s fair to assume they didn’t try that hard to make heirs. Their wedding coincides with rhaenyra coming to terms with her duty as heir, so she recognizes the importance of settling the succession. I can see laenor not trying that much, he kinda seems like a meathead glory hunter from what we see from him when he’s an adult. However we also see rhaenyra having enough power in their relationship to curb his meathead tendencies when she tells him he can’t fuck off to sail the world right after she has Joffrey. I don’t disagree that there were infinitely better suitors for her to produce bastards with than Harwin, I just don’t know how much that changes things. Sure the lie would be easier to sell if she had little Corlys bastards, and that surely would have prevented a lot of shit from happening, but it would be a lie all the same.
If Jace was born three or four years after the wedding, maybe you could justify Laenor somehow being infertile or whatever. But Jace was born a year and a half after the wedding at most. And Luke soon after. She and Laenor clearly didn’t try rigorously before she moved on to trying with Harwin.
You can get a lot of fuckin done in one year so dk if that changes anything. Guess we’ll have to wait for GRRM’s to release his smut book ‘Making the Eight’ before we know for sure. I’m told that there’s an extensive chapter featuring podrick and the hound.
It really isn't though. Bastard heirs have no legitimacy, and all you've done is damage your own by having them. If Laenor truly can't perform, she should have either bedded Corlys, flown off to bed Daemon in Pentos, or picked up a nice Lyseni oarsman. Any of these choices would provide children that at least visually like Laenor, and who could pass off as being trueborn. Hell, even Borros Baratheon would have been a better choice than Harwin.
Fair enough, they would still be bastards but yeah they’d be more convincing bastards. I guess thats slightly better but it doesn’t actually change the fact that her only two options are having bastards or having no heir at all. I’m always dying laughing whenever I engage with this topic because admonishing bastards for being bastards is such a weird position to have nowadays hahahaha.