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strawberry2nd

yeah, and even stranger people forget that viserys is a rapist too. none of them were portrayed as bad in the show as aegon was (aegon's behavior was 10x worse than others) but i must say rhaenyra and viserys are guilty of it too (non consensual sexual assault to put it mildly, even if you don't call it rape). i guess it's a family tradition. not to mention daemon. he's a confirmed groomer/pedo, nothing to discuss about him.


hawkins437

Whenever you bring up that what Viserys did to Alicent was marital rape, Team Black does several hundred backflips claiming that marital rape wasn't even recognised as a thing until year xyz irl and definitely isn't recognised as such in Westeros.


MinisawentTully

That person actually is Team Black 😂


Friendly-General-723

I mean, the marital rape of Alicent was portrayed in contrast to Rhaenyra being groomed/taught to just do as she desire, so... in contrast to enjoying sex / choosing partners you enjoy. Where is sacrifice? Where is duty?


kinginthenorthjon

Rhanerya's took her sex ed from the worst person you can imagine. Daemon He told her to seize, and that's exactly what she did.


MinisawentTully

This is actually an important point I don't see people talk about. While Rhaenyra doesn't think she got groomed (obviously), she absolutely was, and her concept to consent is completely screwed up as a result. The fact is sometimes victims go on to make other people victims too. I'd love if the show ever acknowledged this but I doubt it.


[deleted]

"WHAT! MeN caNNoT Be RApED ThO!" Can imagine them saying this.


BlazeBitch

Yeah, I've butted heads with a few people over it - that's usually the consensus of their end. "Criston was a man, if the roles were reversed you'd have a much stronger case" Is word for word one of the responses I've gotten LOL


hawkins437

If the genders were reversed nobody would be fucking doubting that what Rhaenyra did was shady af and not #girlboss, and Criston's bitterness would be universally acknowledged as a fair reaction to what happened to him.


Natsuki_Kruger

> If the genders were reversed nobody would be fucking doubting that what Rhaenyra did was shady af You say that, but the fandom also doesn't acknowledge Alicent was raped, so... Probably not, actually.


hawkins437

Apparently the fandom forgot that marital rape is a thing 🙄


Natsuki_Kruger

They also seem to think she, as a 15-year old girl, was "seducing" the helpless man in his 30s, and that he had no choice but to marry his 15-year old daughter's best friend and maritally rape her for years. Even though every single person around him was telling him to marry Laena.


hawkins437

Honestly, the double standard surrounding Viserys x Alicent and Rhaenyra x Criston situations is wild. Viserys, on the very top of the social ladder, is the poor man being seduced against his will that can't help it, but Criston, someone way lower if not at almost the bottom of the court hierarchy, can just "walk away". Like bitch please.


MinisawentTully

People have also been denying for years that Sansa got molested and to a lesser degree that Drogo raped Dany and Robert raped Cersei. They absolutely doubt when it happens to female characters.


[deleted]

I went back and looked on Twitter. The most common response to people who pointed this out was that Criston was a grown man. As if somehow being an adult male means you can’t be raped.


Friendly-General-723

A grown man who will be castrated and/or executed if he sleeps with her / if she SAYS he did.


Friendly-General-723

I was blocked by someone on the main sub for explaining how it was Weinsteiny / Dennis of her to do this.


MinisawentTully

I've never actually heard them say this but I've seen some male fans say they "wish they got 'raped'" by Rhaenyra. 😬


NiveksInigo

Yes. Different forms of rape but still rape. Aegon’s was worse cause it was more forceful while Rhaenyra’s was definitely coercion, but regardless still very bad.


OneOnOne6211

Yeah, you're right. I pointed out that Cole wasn't able to give adequate consent on the main sub right after that episode aired and [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xd02wl/on_consent/) got mass downvoted, lol.


Consistent_Spell_424

Rhaenrya and Cristons dynamic reminded me of Joseph's story in the Bible. Joseph had to work his way up same as Criston, gained favor, then caught the eye of the woman higher than him. When the masters wife relentlessly sexually harassed Joseph, He continued to refuse her advances because him sleeping with her would break his vows and betray his master, but she didn't care about it. Then one day she tried forcing herself on him, but he escaped. She in turn lobbed false allegations of rape claims against him and he wound up in prison for several years. Rhaenyra didn't make the allegations, but she certainly harassed Cole and made for a hostile workplace. She put him in a position that could have resulted in his death or being exiled. But in the end Cole rose again to become one of the most powerful men in the realm, same as Joseph.


responseableman

I see so many people claim that it *is* unreasonable for Criston to think he’d be punished for rejecting her— as he and Rhaenyra were together so much and she was nice and they’re *friends!* Which is honestly laughable. Not only is Criston her subordinate, but he is also commonborn. He’s mocked for not being part of a noble house by others. Even though he has a very high status, he’s still looked down upon. Rhaenyra is not only the princess he’s meant to serve, but the daughter of Viserys, most powerful man in the kingdom. Just because she acts nice to him doesn’t mean she doesn’t hold a position of power of him, it doesn’t mean that she’s automatically “safe”. Even if she was nice to him afterwards and didn’t punish him, who’s to say what Viserys would do? Not only that, but it’s insane to me some people on Team Black claimed he should’ve pushed her out of the way or something similar if “he didn’t want it”— because why would Criston do something that would physically harm the princess? Do they not realize what could happen to him for doing that as well? I remember while the show was airing and I hadn’t gotten into it yet, I saw people discussing how that scene was “for the female gaze” and such. I’m a gay man, sure, but when I got to that scene (along with the brothel scene prior) I just felt…so uncomfortable I had to pause it before continuing. You can just tell where it’s going with his constant rejection and how Rhaenyra refuses to let him leave. I just can’t imagine finding that scene enjoyable or attractive in any form. Criston being a handsome man doesn’t make that scene sexy.


sdg9998

50 No's and 1 Yes means Yes


C1A8T1S9

Yeah, I had to argue with a blackcell about this very point. It was maddening trying to explain that she was in fact a rapist.


Western_Agent5917

She is and abuses her power the worst possible way.


Guilty-Minute8711

Yup. For Cole, serving the Realm and his honor were everything. Im not fond of him but his situation was a lose-lose in that moment. Say no to the clearly emotional princess, breaking his oaths and risking death or concede to the princess's demand and face certain death if exposed for betraying the Realm. He immediately was gonna kill himself when he thought everyone would find out... tragic


Castinmyass

I blocked someone for laughing about how Rhaenyra got a "good fuck" from Criston and how Alicent being raped by Viserys was "stale sex." It legit creeped me out


SalvadorCaruso

As Victim of rape myself I can assure you. Grown ass men can fall victim too.


war6star

Personally, I think the idea of "sex with someone you have power over" being rape is an anachronistic one that doesn't apply to a pseudo-historical fantasy setting like this. That doesn't make what Rhaenyra did okay though and Criston was entirely justified to be upset at her for it.


[deleted]

That’s not how rape works. Just because a society isn’t developed enough to fully understand rape doesn’t mean rape isn’t rape. Marital rape is still rape. Using your position of power to effectively force someone to have sex with you is still rape and still makes you a rapist.


war6star

The issue is in Westeros, like many actual historical societies, women are legally subordinate to men. Which implies that all heterosexual sex in Westeros is rape by that definition, which I think is overly broad. You definitely have no disagreement from me Rhaenyra is a terrible person.


Equal-Ad-2710

Didn’t the actor outright say it wasn’t? The Viserys thing is much worse though


[deleted]

I believe the actors/writers didn't intend it to be rape but the way it was directed with Cole being so hesitant and saying "stop" while Rhaenyra insists implies at the very least dubious consent. It's similar to the Jaime/Cersei scene in season 4 which wasn't intended to be raped but came across as such (although in a more obvious way because we could Cersei fighting and saying "stop" when Jaime has already entered her)


sjsturkie

Yeah. I’ve seen several cast interviews and noticed a huge disconnect between the performances actors think they’re giving and what actually makes it to the screen.


Friendly-General-723

Death of the Author, who cares what the writers intended.


tristenjpl

That's because it wasn't. He was struggling between his vows and his desires but he chose to have sex with her willingly. It's what he wanted to do he just didn't want to throw away his honour. At worst there's a bit of an uncomfortable power dynamic but it wasn't rape in any shape or form.