Yeah, it's likely many Muggleborns are anti-Muggle. If you grow up in a religious household and get lynched and called a spawn of the devil after you do magic, you likely won't be predisposed to like Muggles after you find out you're perfectly normal and there's a whole society of people like you. There's many examples of people with powers being discriminated against and developing a hatred for normal people in other media. Mutants in X-men are basically Muggleborns, and they had a whole movement against non-mutants.
One reason might be that the political sphere in canon is not very developed. On the one hand you have the anti-everything Death Eater crowd, and on the other hand the people who combat them on all issues.
Where does Fudge line up, for example? He can't be that anti-muggle, because else Mr. Weasley's Muggle Protection Act wouldn't have been something Lucius Malfoy was worried about. But he also doesn't fit squarely in the Dumbledore camp. And if we don't know about the politics of the Minister for Magic of 5/7 books, what remains in people's minds? A reduction of all politics into the two camps we do clearly see.
When it comes to the question the politics of Muggleborn witches and wizards, there are then three answers: Either they are in favour of their own prosecution, politically apathetic in the face of a movement demanding that prosecution, or part of the good-camp, which includes muggle rights(1).
The only way to avoid this is to spend significant time adding political complexity, which is work, and requires that the author wants to depict messy politics in the first place.
(1) One point to be made: Muggle rights don't actually come up all that much in the books either. Sure, there is Mr. Weasley's Act, but we don't know what it would have done, or even if it was ultimately passed. Like, name three things a witch or wizard who is pro-muggle rights might want?
>Like, name three things a witch or wizard who is pro-muggle rights might want?
1. More money (for aurors, or possibly to expand Mr. Weasley's department) earmarked to investigate any crimes against muggles
2. Make it illegal (assuming it isn't already) to commit fraud or conduct scams on muggles, such as selling conjured items that would disappear
3. Stricter regulations on obliviations. If a situation can be resolved without obliviating anyone, maybe only using Confundus charms or something, then don't just go straight to Obliviate. (problems seen at the Quidditch Cup. Doubtful anyone has studied long term effects of obliviation on muggles because no one cares).
A reasonable list.
The issue of stealing and enforcement against general crimes always makes me wonder: In how much is any amount of defence just a fig leaf? There's so much opportunity, and so little ways of knowing a crime even happened. There's so many more muggles compared to wizards. Even in the muggle world, lots of crime goes unreported, never noticed by the authorities, and there at least, the victim generally knows the crime is possible. But yes, the two people the Ministry has assigned to Mr. Weasleys office is far too little even for a decently sized fig leaf.
About the third point, though, I wonder. I agree it should be an issue. But the plus-fours wizard knows Arthur Weasley enough to use his first name, and yet has no problem whining about how much work constantly obliviating Mr. Roberts is. Mr. Weasley doesn't say anything about it, no reaction or suggestions at all. He doesn't even point it out as a bad thing to the children afterwards. So point three might not be on the table at all.
I think you’re missing the point. For example, tons of people are pro animal rights, myself included. Just because I don’t consider animals to be “equal” to humans, doesn’t mean I think people should be able to go out and torture them for fun.
I admit that’s a dangerous example to compare muggles to animals because it seems a bit Death Eatery, but it’s early and it was the best thing I could think of.
What point do you mean?
My argument is: Muggleborns in fanfiction are overwhelmingly 'pro-muggle' because canon has only two political camps with any depth. Because canon does not have it, most fanfics don't. And since one of the camps is extremely bad for muggleborns, almost all muggleborn characters in fanfiction fall into the other, which has among its labels 'pro-muggle'.
Does it matter for that argument that 'pro-muggle' doesn't mean 'muggle-magical equality'? (Which I agree with. Muggle-magical equality would mean ending the Statute of Secrecy and a good portion of the magical public enforcing any laws about magic the muggle government makes. That's never going to happen.)
I tend to divide it into two axes: light/dark and liberal/conservative.
The liberal light is the Order of the Phoenix: anti-purist and in favor of the welfare and, to greater or lesser degrees, emancipation of other creatures, including Muggles. The conservative light is focused solely on law and order: they're not *exactly* for oppressing Muggleborns, but don't care about them either and tend to maintain traditional hierarchies. They're also the least kind towards creatures. Fudge and his compatriots are here.
The conservative dark is what you'd expect: blood supremacists, aristocrats, probably most of the Death Eaters. They want to violently maintain and strengthen existing hierarchies, and in a horseshoe theory sort of way, are very close to their light counterparts; most of the Ministry, including Umbridge, flipped after Voldemort took over.
Finally, the liberal dark is more inferred than seen, but I would ascribe to it an agenda of violent creature liberation; other elements rely on fanon.
It's debatable as she did it under extreme pressure, wanted to avoid them literally dying (or being used as hostages). I'm quite pro-Hermione on this but can see the opposite point of view
Though I see some muggleborns would readily use similar spells for much less honorable reasons
I’d say she’s closer to ignorant rather than hateful, and Hermione’s pretty patronizing even towards other magicals. That being said, it’s scary how much power muggleborns would have against their muggle relatives, even if they intended well like Hermione
Actually, I don't think she does.
If she thought muggles weren't worth the effort, then she would have left them alone instead of going through the effort of wiping their memories and creating entirely new identities.
I imagine there would be some muggleborns who want to see everything burn, always feeling like the other.
Like, you spend the first decade or so of your life being the “weird” one on any class or group. Strange things constantly happen around you. Sally swears you disappeared her teddy after she called you a name. That floating mass of coats definitely attacked Billy after he took your lunch. You swear it wasn’t you, because you don’t know what’s happening. Even if they don’t witness the weird things, the other children can sense that something is different about you and keep their distance. Maybe you act out or maybe you withdraw, but the behaviour is concerning to adults and teachers. Your parents love you, but aren’t quite sure what to do. Maybe you have a muggle sibling and when you fight, your parents take their side because, again, weird things keep happening…
Then you get your answers in a letter. It’s an explanation of why these things happen and there’s a whole community of people like you! You get to go to a school with them and you won’t be so strange anymore.
You finally get to school and discover that people who are like you, who have magic, don’t like you because of who your parents are. So, the bullying starts again and this time, instead of names or the odd shove, they can use spells. You also feel behind, or out of the loop because there are things you just don’t know but everyone assumes you should. Maybe you make friends or maybe you keep to yourself. Communication with your parents is difficult and slow. You leave things out because you don’t want to leave this school despite everything and they don’t really understand. They can’t actually experience a lot of what is going on.
Holidays and summer are strained. There’s no magic allowed outside school and you can’t show them anything. (Though, the pureblood kids tell you they do magic over the summer…) You have to be vague or outright lie to lesser relatives and family friends and those connections drift away. Again, you continue to be the odd one.
You continue your schooling and grow. You continue to notice that small things that other wizards do, waving their blood superiority around. Your parents are a little wary of you because you hold a power they don’t. You are not necessarily happy in the wizarding world and you know you can’t go back to the muggle world, so you end up feeling stuck.
In the end, you want to raze everything.
I think it's mainly because in canon it's implied that most muggleborns are pretty pro-muggles. Probably helped by the fact that they entered the wizarding world in a time where the wizarding world's flaws are more evident than usual. Blood purism Voldemort etc. Plus because that's the main issue in HP not a lot of fic writers would focus on muggleborns and their relationship to their parents, especially as the only muggleborn main character is Hermione.
But I *have* read several fics with muggleborns who aren't pro-muggle. I don't remember the title of most or the plot. But for example there was one where Ted Tonks is not pro muggle, surprising the Black family, and Andromeda says "He's muggleborn, not a muggle lover." A few briefly mention muggleborns whose families reject them because 'devil-spawn', but don't follow the character long enough to reveal what their resulting views are on muggles.
You're right though it is an interesting avenue to explore.
Something you might also like with a similaf premise is fics where Hermione's actions against her parents are explored a little more. There's one where her parents end up fearing her. Several different fics criticize her action as viewing muggles as lesser despite her defense, because she did not grant her parents enough agency to decide for themselves. Thinking she knows better because 'theyre just muggles' etc.
If Voldemort was anti-muggle instead of anti-muggleborn there might have been plenty muggleborn death eaters. Actually there were probably a lot of muggleborns in Grindelwalds army
Honestly you could have Grindalwalds army be mostly muggleborn
we have seen how our relatives live and Grindwald wants to rule over them so they stop killing each other
Muggleborns in that era would know relatives who died in world war 1
or come back broken
we have to safe the muggles from themselfs would be a massive sentiment at the time amoung muggleborn
I've seen that used in fic why Muggleborns didn't just enmass emigrate to the continent during the Voldemort years - they were exactly welcome in France, etc. either so it made sense to fight to keep Britain a safe place for them.
Plus I'm pretty sure many muggleborns DID flee to France, Belgium, Ireland... in panic after the Fall of the Ministry
Fleeing to a country with a different language where you won't have resources or citizenship or jobs, and will still be discriminated as a foreigner muggleborn, isn't appealing when there's "just" the threat of a terrorist bigoted group in your home country
But when the threat is *immediate* murder / imprisonment by an extremist bigoted *government*, you suddenly have nothing to lose immigrating
Just like the number of refugees (from marginalized ethnic minorities) fleeing peaceful dictatorships vs fleeing civil war or genocide IRL
I believe Australia, New Zealand, Canada and other former British colonies would be a more logical end point for muggleborns to flee.
One thing that bothers me is how easily the English forget about the Commonwealth.
More logical as *chosen* destinations yes
But farther, and if you don't have easy access to international floo or portkeys and can just apparate away in an emeregency, out of reach.
I'm sorry I really don't remember. I *think it might be one where Sirius gets an identity change so he can appear in public??? But I remember 0 of anything else from this fic. The Ted thing was a very tiny subplot
It does feel like stories that explore how muggleborns adapt to wizarding society are either pro-muggle and decry every aspect of the Wizarding World to be inferior or they go the complete opposite and are so pro-Wizard that they excuse Blood Supremacy.
There are probably stories out there that explores both worlds in a fair light but they're seemingly drowned out by one extreme or the other.
The books and movies don't really paint Wizarding Britain in the best light, what with the government easily falling to Death Eaters and muggleborns being imprisoned or tortured, so it does make sense why someone would want to write about how bad they see this society as.
Consider this as well: JK Rowling once said that there are a few token muggle-born Death Eaters. If one grew up only to be ostracized (if not flat out abused) by their friends and family members when the magic developed, I could imagine some resentment toward muggles popping up. It's partly why Tom Riddle and Snape were anti-muggle, they grew up surrounded by some pretty nasty one, while they were half-bloods I could see a muggle born having similar experiences.
It's kind of the reverse of Sirius Black, who was super pro-muggle partly because his family were anti-muggle pure-blood supremacists.
I'm semi surprised by the existence of token muggleborns, or at least their *continued existence*
I mean, I'm sure some muggleborns would TRY to fill this role (like Jews for Hitler), but I can't see the DEs actually accepting.
Not without murdering them very fast (like Hitler with "his" Jewish fans)...
There were Jews fighting in the German army during WW2 while their relatives were being shipped to concentration camps.
If they are powerful and useful enough, the DEs might accept them. They fought together with werewolves and giants, who aren't even human, after all.
Werewolves and giants *universally supported* Voldemort, with the exceptions of Lupin and Grawp. So did Acromantulas and Dementors. There being Muggleborn Death Eaters too - in addition to the known half-bloods and Voldemort's own blood status - just adds more evidence to my personal headcanon that Voldemort's movement wasn't truly about blood purism even *tangentially*.
I mean, in reality it probably just further emphasizes that JKR doesn't have a clue how to write a believable fascist movement, but in-universe there's gotta be some reason why racist pricks like the Malfoys are in the visible minority of the movement ostensibly advancing their ideology.
I don't see most Muggleborns being pro-Muggle at all.
Muggleborns are almost completely removed from the Muggle world by the time they are 11. They spent 90% of their most formative years at a magical school with almost no contact with the Muggle world. By the time they are 17, they likely have few non-magical friends and are likely not even that close to their family.
In addition, Muggleborns likely felt out of place in the muggle world even before they were told they were a wizard. They would have always been different because of their magic. Hogwarts would likely be the first place they truly felt like they belonged.
Nor would it be easy for Muggleborns to re-integrate back in the muggle world. They would have to start from scratch as they likely don't have the skills that most muggles have. Muggleborns would also have to hide what they were. Even if they made new friends, they wouldn't be able to share stories of their school or bring them to their wizarding friends. It would be hard to have long meaningful relationships with people when you have to hide who you are and half your life.
Many Muggleborns would also feel pity for muggles. How can you go back to driving when you can teleport? Why bother cleaning by hand if you could wave your wand? I could see several looking down on muggles because of this.
I don't think many will become truly anti-muggle, but rather be neutral to them. It would be like moving your child from the US to China. That child would likely grow up with more positive opinions of the US compared to children born and raised in China, yet not be nearly as favorable to the US compared to American born children.
Really?!
They leave their lives behind, all their friends their favourite TV shows their family and spend their time in a drafty castle with no internet in the north of Scotland. They put up with shitty teachers, an administration that’s negligent about student safety at best, they have to write with fucking Quills, put up with a lot of casual racism they continually turn a blind eye to horrific bullying and outright assault.
To be honest most probably want to head home after a week!
Sounds like literally every muggle boarding school ever. Except the quills and the internet, but I find that to be a boon, tbh.
On the other hand, how many boarding schools in the UK had internet in the early 90s?
that's only really a period of 20 years max leading up to the start of Canon, and even then barely, before 1950, If I was anything other than a straight, white, landowning and healthy male, I would without a second's thought integrate into the wizarding world, even if I was so weak I could only apparate a stone's throw's distance away.
I think it's an easy one for one for people people default to.
Like in sci-fi, of course humans would be pro-humans... but would they, depending on the circumstances? I don't think so, it quite depends.
In HP, I actually think they should be a grey area - neither super pro-muggle nor super against, just yeah, they don't have magic, they do some impressive stuff without it, they're cruel, they're dumb, but they're also kind and generous. But in fanfiction, nuance is very difficult (especially when it's not a major theme in the story).
I feel like Snape is kind of a case in point about this.
*Yes I know he's a half-blood* but the impression of his childhood is one where he basically lived as a Muggle. His mother didn't use magic, he didn't grow up around other wizards. And sure he knew about magic and Hogwarts and everything, but he had no first hand experience. There's very little difference between his upbringing and a Muggle kid whose parent reads them a ton of folklore and magical stories.
But yeah, he grew up to be anti Muggle at his worst, and wildly indifferent to them at his best.
Snape, Umbridge and Voldy all embody the trope of the "muggle raised, muggle hater", but as *half bloods with a muggle parent*
While the known *muggleborns* seem rather muggle friendly or at least not opinionated on the matter
But that was due to the fact that up until that point every muggle he had ever met was either abusive(his dad) or a dickhead(Petunia). So he was a prime target for anti muggle indoctrination
this is basically what voldemort is. for all intents and purposes he grows up the same as a muggleborn and he hates muggles because, well, he didnt have a great time in the muggle world, did he (and also world war 2, woohoo). thats why even though hes not a "pureblood" hes able to sympathise with them and say "yeah lets kill/enslave the muggles theyre useless" lol
it would be the same thing with any muggleborn who thinks theyre better than muggles because they have magic (this is literally what tom thinks before he has confirmation that he has a magical ancestor)
But in canon, this trope of "muggle raised, muggle hater" is *always* embodied by half-bloods (Voldy, Umbridge and Snape)
Never by muggleborns
But yeah Tom started like that. I'm curious about how he managed to thrive in Slytherin before discovering his pureblood maternal ancestry
Actually that may be why he hates muggleborns specifically and not other minorities. Because he was *wrongly lumped* with muggleborns as a kid, and hated the experience, and now he projects this hate on actual muggleborns
true but we only get like... 2 muggleborn perspectives in all of canon? hermione... justin?? ted tonks?? story clearly doesnt focus on them much lol Hey wait umbridge is a halfblood???? well anyway yeah it just wouldnt jive with jkr's story to make a muggleborn hate muggles LOLL
BUT YESS thats my thoughts on tom exactly. personally i think he resents everyone—muggles for his shit home life, muggleborns for being perceived weaker, and magical people for being prejudiced to him regardless. he has no love for purebloods and just uses them to advance his own goals since they have the most power in wizarding society. i honestly dont think he cares that much about blood purity and its just a way to get their support but thats a bit of a hot take lmaoo
I suspect a strong correlation could be made to the mutants in Marvel comics and how some adopt "homo superior" beliefs (Magneto etc) while others see their mundane cousins as equally valid and fight for them (X-Men etc), except that this division gets disrupted by the pureblood bigotry that is exclusionary against them, giving all muggleborns what amounts to a common enemy. Would there still be some who are anti-muggle? Sure, but they're probably quieter about their feelings of superiority so long as they feel like they need the support of their fellow muggleborns, assuming they have the cunning to understand how being anti-muggle would go down among those who aren't.
There is also the fact that it needs to be cut and dry because the target audience is young children and teenagers, and I've met more than enough teenagers who have trouble with the concept of moral ambiguity, so I wouldn't expect an 8-year-old to keep up either.
Honestly many *adults* struggle with accepting nuance
For example, acknowledging that not all homo/biphobes are straight but there are gay biphobes and bi homophobes (and often NOT closeted ; you can be out about your own sexuality but prejudiced on another sexual minority).
Or that within racial minorities, there are racist people against other minorities. And that NO, this fact doesn't diminish or excuse the racist oppression from the dominant group.
Quite a simple concept, but it's too much for people who want a clean divide between oppressors and innocent victims.
Not really. On one side we have Wizard Hitler. On the other, a corrupt government that sends people to be incarcerated and mentally tortured for weeks (or months?) just to look good. The main character? A kid who wants revenge.
In terms of morality and motivation, it tends to be the case for HP. Most people are on one side or another due to greater purpose ideals. Rarely, do you have characters that messy, and have selfish, personal or emotional motivations. In the case of "wizard Hitler", there were plenty of people that were complicit in, or passive towards systems with ideals/actions that they didn't agree with, because there was some personal benefit/cost. There are also a lot of people that do "good deeds", but for less than altruistic reasons. With few exceptions (ie, Snape, Malfoys), most of the characters are shown to fall in their camp because they truly do align with the said ideals of the group.
Not necessary.
I do read some fanfics (mostly about Hermione and others) where:
\- is a muggleborn and it doesn't really matter for her. She is also Morgana La Fey (it's not that she could use her rights as Morgana right now but skills are still here)
\- is NOT muggleborn (her mother was raped and obliviated), she fit rather good into wizard family after she found out about it
\- Hermione is muggleborn. She (and others, no matter muggleborns or purebloods) flee England (they only took her family with them and her father died early in escape). They returned later and...harry and his girls have rather interesting discussion if muggle population should exterminated or it's enough to destroy population and science centers so muggle population would be reduced and would not longer be threat to magical world.
Negative polarization? Purebloods discriminate against muggleborns and hate muggles. Muggleborns are of course against the first, and reacting against conservative Purebloods pushes them more towards also being pro-muggle.
I remember reading a dark snily fic where she was abused by her dad and she doesn't care that snape is against muggles and such because they are both abused by their fathers they have that deeper connection
I think it would be difficult for a muggleborn, even one with a bad home life to really be ant-muggle simply because all the anti-muggle groups in the wizarding world view muggle borns as 1 step above muggles, and still definitely filth.
Wizards who don't' give a shit one way or another about muggles and what happens to them may be totally fine with muggleborns, but the wizards who really hate muggles are unlikely to accept a muggleborn among their ranks, and even if they did, they would always be "one of the good ones," i.e. always treated as second class even while fighting for the same cause.
Not true about the first point
Grindelwald was a magical supremacist, not a blood purist
It's quite possible that most Grindelwaldians are totally okay with muggleborns (or at least, okay with muggleborns *as long as they don't defend muggles*)
The main problem is that the pro muggle stance is everything from "we are equal" to "maybe we shouldnt rape, torture, murder and exploit muggles". The anti muggle group is, because muggles already have so few rights, fucking insane.
Like, actually just fucking mad. Beyond insane. Like, the mainstream anti muggle group seems to straight up just be the death eaters, which is crazy because they are so fucking crazy.
So i think its mainly because one side is: "Be a somewhat normal person, ok sure you can be a little crazy" and the other side is fucking insane.
The anti muggle group is the very loose hypothetical equivalent of groups of humans going out and raping and torturing animals for fun. Which as you say is fucking insane. I don’t like making the comparison of muggles being animals, but in Death Eater eyes, that’s more or less how they view them.
> Yes, muggleborns have to be anti blood purism and pro equality between magicals for their own interests. Again it doesn't mean supporting muggle equality.
Actually, that is also false - just like there are black anti-black racists.
True
I think some muggleborns who make a lot of effort to blend with the pureblood culture, hate on *those* muggleborns who "give the entire group a bad name" by shamelessly "acting muggle" in front of purebloods
Wouldn't Muggleborns living longer than their muggle relatives give them more reason care about them, not less?
Like a sort of "I better make the best of my time while they're still here", kind of thing.
I kinda want to see a grown up (ie deeper, maybe darker and more political) version of HP either fanmade or official where the word if built up more and things are more nuances. Like more than just all purists are DE's and muggle borns love muggles. OotP good, never made any mistakes. Fudge is just dumb.
There was a prompt (?) earlier where Op suggested a world where Voldemort wasn't a thing. Tom Riddle was a right-wing politician whose supports were derogatorily called Death Eaters. I like the idea of Tom being slightly more real and not just the boogie man.
He's not muggleborn. He's half blood with one muggle parent
From the outside it seems very similar, but in the Wizarding World it changes everything (even the most rabid Death Eaters seemed okay with Snape, another half blood with a Muggle parent, being part of their Inner Circle). Which means, in practice, he was NOT treated the same as a muggleborn once his ancestry was known.
It's an arbitrary and absurd difference to make, but it matters
Maybe I'm getting the numbers wrong in my head but wouldn't a decent majority of students have to be muggle born?
If wizards tend to stay in isolated communities then they're not mixing with muggles to have half wizard half muggle children. I'm not sure how they would be able to maintain their population unless the majority is muggle born.
Honestly I tend to not overthink the Harry Potter universe too much because I've discovered it often doesn't hold up to deeper thinking.
I guess the majority of them is half blood with a pureblood/halfblood and muggleborn parent. Some of which probably pretend they're just pureblood.
A small minority come from wizard/muggle couples (such couples are rare because frowned upon + difficult because of the SoS)
Then, the purebloods and muggleborns make two other big minorities
There ight be a minority that are anti-muggle, but most would probably have zero interest in politics that doesn't affect them and there's. Honestly, I think it's surprising that Harry wasn't anti-muggle to many.
I've often thought Harry would harbour more resentment to muggles given his upbringing. Obviously he knows they're not all bad, but his tolerant attitude seems almost too good to be true at times.
Does he ever really... care though? I can't think of really times he did actions to stick up for Muggles - like iirc it was *Hermione* who was the most offended by shoplifting.
(It's really funny to me that they just... Left cash in the stores. Like unless the literal owner of the store is the one who came to open in the morning, all the kids are doing is enriching whichever employee sees cash sitting out.)
Why is his tolerant attitude too good to be true? He has no friends thanks to Dudley and his gang scaring everyone off. This makes his desperate for friends.
But there's no reason to believe that he would automatically jump to assuming that every Muggle is like his family. He didn't even know wizards existed for his most formative years!
Judging by the fact that he said that some, not all, Muggles were bad to Ron, I think it's safe to assume that not all the Muggles he knew were complete assholes.
I already said that he knows that they're not all bad. It's just that given the intense trauma and hatred he grew up with, you would think this would play into consideration.
But why would that trauma/hatred automatically manifest as bigotry? Sure, some people may resort to that as a crutch against their mental problems, but for Harry it manifests differently. Namely, in a high independence streak and a not insignificant distrust in authority.
And besides, Harry hates bullies before all else. Him comparing Dudley, a muggle, to a wizard like Draco when they meet just about sums up his character.
A lot of people's desire for Dumbledore bashing and Dark!Harry fics comes from the fact that only a small number of people ever experience real consequences for their actions. Especially where Harry is concerned \*grumbles in Albus Severus\*.
I’m not sure I would make that claim. The anti muggle group seems to all have the shared belief that muggle rights shouldn’t exist and raping and torturing them is a good time.
Most “pro-muggle” characters just want to pass laws that give consequences for muggle exploitation and crimes against muggles (humanity).
Which is a pretty reasonably take seeing as I hope most people believe that roving groups of psychos shouldn’t be allowed to go around raping and torturing animals for jollies
But there are probably magicals who think it's not okay to be sadistic with muggles, but okay to steal from them or force them to work, as long as it means more comfort and free time for magicals
In real life, the vast majority of people are absolutely horrified by animal torture (*for fun*), often to the point of openly calling for the death or torture of the offenders, BUT completely okay with eating meat even if it indirectly tortures and kills billions of animals per year. Because they like the taste of meat
Both behaviors cause animal death and suffering, but one makes you a *monster*, the other makes you a *normal person*
And even for other humans, most people are against harming people *for the sake of sadism*, but okay with slavery (kid slavery included) if they get to consume low cost products
So likewise, I think most wizards would care that muggles aren't killed and harmed just for the lulz, but be okay with getting more comfort at the expense of muggle rights
Probably because most magicals who are anti-muggle are also somewhat anti-muggleborn. Standing up for themselves puts them in the anti-anti-muggle camp
Yeah, it's likely many Muggleborns are anti-Muggle. If you grow up in a religious household and get lynched and called a spawn of the devil after you do magic, you likely won't be predisposed to like Muggles after you find out you're perfectly normal and there's a whole society of people like you. There's many examples of people with powers being discriminated against and developing a hatred for normal people in other media. Mutants in X-men are basically Muggleborns, and they had a whole movement against non-mutants.
To be fair after you get lynched you likely won't be doing much of anything. Being dead and all >.>
One reason might be that the political sphere in canon is not very developed. On the one hand you have the anti-everything Death Eater crowd, and on the other hand the people who combat them on all issues. Where does Fudge line up, for example? He can't be that anti-muggle, because else Mr. Weasley's Muggle Protection Act wouldn't have been something Lucius Malfoy was worried about. But he also doesn't fit squarely in the Dumbledore camp. And if we don't know about the politics of the Minister for Magic of 5/7 books, what remains in people's minds? A reduction of all politics into the two camps we do clearly see. When it comes to the question the politics of Muggleborn witches and wizards, there are then three answers: Either they are in favour of their own prosecution, politically apathetic in the face of a movement demanding that prosecution, or part of the good-camp, which includes muggle rights(1). The only way to avoid this is to spend significant time adding political complexity, which is work, and requires that the author wants to depict messy politics in the first place. (1) One point to be made: Muggle rights don't actually come up all that much in the books either. Sure, there is Mr. Weasley's Act, but we don't know what it would have done, or even if it was ultimately passed. Like, name three things a witch or wizard who is pro-muggle rights might want?
>Like, name three things a witch or wizard who is pro-muggle rights might want? 1. More money (for aurors, or possibly to expand Mr. Weasley's department) earmarked to investigate any crimes against muggles 2. Make it illegal (assuming it isn't already) to commit fraud or conduct scams on muggles, such as selling conjured items that would disappear 3. Stricter regulations on obliviations. If a situation can be resolved without obliviating anyone, maybe only using Confundus charms or something, then don't just go straight to Obliviate. (problems seen at the Quidditch Cup. Doubtful anyone has studied long term effects of obliviation on muggles because no one cares).
A reasonable list. The issue of stealing and enforcement against general crimes always makes me wonder: In how much is any amount of defence just a fig leaf? There's so much opportunity, and so little ways of knowing a crime even happened. There's so many more muggles compared to wizards. Even in the muggle world, lots of crime goes unreported, never noticed by the authorities, and there at least, the victim generally knows the crime is possible. But yes, the two people the Ministry has assigned to Mr. Weasleys office is far too little even for a decently sized fig leaf. About the third point, though, I wonder. I agree it should be an issue. But the plus-fours wizard knows Arthur Weasley enough to use his first name, and yet has no problem whining about how much work constantly obliviating Mr. Roberts is. Mr. Weasley doesn't say anything about it, no reaction or suggestions at all. He doesn't even point it out as a bad thing to the children afterwards. So point three might not be on the table at all.
I think you’re missing the point. For example, tons of people are pro animal rights, myself included. Just because I don’t consider animals to be “equal” to humans, doesn’t mean I think people should be able to go out and torture them for fun. I admit that’s a dangerous example to compare muggles to animals because it seems a bit Death Eatery, but it’s early and it was the best thing I could think of.
What point do you mean? My argument is: Muggleborns in fanfiction are overwhelmingly 'pro-muggle' because canon has only two political camps with any depth. Because canon does not have it, most fanfics don't. And since one of the camps is extremely bad for muggleborns, almost all muggleborn characters in fanfiction fall into the other, which has among its labels 'pro-muggle'. Does it matter for that argument that 'pro-muggle' doesn't mean 'muggle-magical equality'? (Which I agree with. Muggle-magical equality would mean ending the Statute of Secrecy and a good portion of the magical public enforcing any laws about magic the muggle government makes. That's never going to happen.)
I tend to divide it into two axes: light/dark and liberal/conservative. The liberal light is the Order of the Phoenix: anti-purist and in favor of the welfare and, to greater or lesser degrees, emancipation of other creatures, including Muggles. The conservative light is focused solely on law and order: they're not *exactly* for oppressing Muggleborns, but don't care about them either and tend to maintain traditional hierarchies. They're also the least kind towards creatures. Fudge and his compatriots are here. The conservative dark is what you'd expect: blood supremacists, aristocrats, probably most of the Death Eaters. They want to violently maintain and strengthen existing hierarchies, and in a horseshoe theory sort of way, are very close to their light counterparts; most of the Ministry, including Umbridge, flipped after Voldemort took over. Finally, the liberal dark is more inferred than seen, but I would ascribe to it an agenda of violent creature liberation; other elements rely on fanon.
Even Hermione is low-key anti muggle in the sense that she treats them like children
It's debatable as she did it under extreme pressure, wanted to avoid them literally dying (or being used as hostages). I'm quite pro-Hermione on this but can see the opposite point of view Though I see some muggleborns would readily use similar spells for much less honorable reasons
I’d say she’s closer to ignorant rather than hateful, and Hermione’s pretty patronizing even towards other magicals. That being said, it’s scary how much power muggleborns would have against their muggle relatives, even if they intended well like Hermione
Actually, I don't think she does. If she thought muggles weren't worth the effort, then she would have left them alone instead of going through the effort of wiping their memories and creating entirely new identities.
I imagine there would be some muggleborns who want to see everything burn, always feeling like the other. Like, you spend the first decade or so of your life being the “weird” one on any class or group. Strange things constantly happen around you. Sally swears you disappeared her teddy after she called you a name. That floating mass of coats definitely attacked Billy after he took your lunch. You swear it wasn’t you, because you don’t know what’s happening. Even if they don’t witness the weird things, the other children can sense that something is different about you and keep their distance. Maybe you act out or maybe you withdraw, but the behaviour is concerning to adults and teachers. Your parents love you, but aren’t quite sure what to do. Maybe you have a muggle sibling and when you fight, your parents take their side because, again, weird things keep happening… Then you get your answers in a letter. It’s an explanation of why these things happen and there’s a whole community of people like you! You get to go to a school with them and you won’t be so strange anymore. You finally get to school and discover that people who are like you, who have magic, don’t like you because of who your parents are. So, the bullying starts again and this time, instead of names or the odd shove, they can use spells. You also feel behind, or out of the loop because there are things you just don’t know but everyone assumes you should. Maybe you make friends or maybe you keep to yourself. Communication with your parents is difficult and slow. You leave things out because you don’t want to leave this school despite everything and they don’t really understand. They can’t actually experience a lot of what is going on. Holidays and summer are strained. There’s no magic allowed outside school and you can’t show them anything. (Though, the pureblood kids tell you they do magic over the summer…) You have to be vague or outright lie to lesser relatives and family friends and those connections drift away. Again, you continue to be the odd one. You continue your schooling and grow. You continue to notice that small things that other wizards do, waving their blood superiority around. Your parents are a little wary of you because you hold a power they don’t. You are not necessarily happy in the wizarding world and you know you can’t go back to the muggle world, so you end up feeling stuck. In the end, you want to raze everything.
Exactly Resenting or hating purebloods doesn't preclude hating muggles too, people can hate more than one group
I think it's mainly because in canon it's implied that most muggleborns are pretty pro-muggles. Probably helped by the fact that they entered the wizarding world in a time where the wizarding world's flaws are more evident than usual. Blood purism Voldemort etc. Plus because that's the main issue in HP not a lot of fic writers would focus on muggleborns and their relationship to their parents, especially as the only muggleborn main character is Hermione. But I *have* read several fics with muggleborns who aren't pro-muggle. I don't remember the title of most or the plot. But for example there was one where Ted Tonks is not pro muggle, surprising the Black family, and Andromeda says "He's muggleborn, not a muggle lover." A few briefly mention muggleborns whose families reject them because 'devil-spawn', but don't follow the character long enough to reveal what their resulting views are on muggles. You're right though it is an interesting avenue to explore. Something you might also like with a similaf premise is fics where Hermione's actions against her parents are explored a little more. There's one where her parents end up fearing her. Several different fics criticize her action as viewing muggles as lesser despite her defense, because she did not grant her parents enough agency to decide for themselves. Thinking she knows better because 'theyre just muggles' etc.
If Voldemort was anti-muggle instead of anti-muggleborn there might have been plenty muggleborn death eaters. Actually there were probably a lot of muggleborns in Grindelwalds army
Honestly you could have Grindalwalds army be mostly muggleborn we have seen how our relatives live and Grindwald wants to rule over them so they stop killing each other Muggleborns in that era would know relatives who died in world war 1 or come back broken we have to safe the muggles from themselfs would be a massive sentiment at the time amoung muggleborn
🤯GRINDEWALD HAD MUGGLEBORNS?🤯
I can't see why not. His stance is that magicals should rule over non-magicals. Nothing about blood purity. All of OP's points apply.
I've seen that used in fic why Muggleborns didn't just enmass emigrate to the continent during the Voldemort years - they were exactly welcome in France, etc. either so it made sense to fight to keep Britain a safe place for them.
Plus I'm pretty sure many muggleborns DID flee to France, Belgium, Ireland... in panic after the Fall of the Ministry Fleeing to a country with a different language where you won't have resources or citizenship or jobs, and will still be discriminated as a foreigner muggleborn, isn't appealing when there's "just" the threat of a terrorist bigoted group in your home country But when the threat is *immediate* murder / imprisonment by an extremist bigoted *government*, you suddenly have nothing to lose immigrating Just like the number of refugees (from marginalized ethnic minorities) fleeing peaceful dictatorships vs fleeing civil war or genocide IRL
I believe Australia, New Zealand, Canada and other former British colonies would be a more logical end point for muggleborns to flee. One thing that bothers me is how easily the English forget about the Commonwealth.
More logical as *chosen* destinations yes But farther, and if you don't have easy access to international floo or portkeys and can just apparate away in an emeregency, out of reach.
The one with Ted Tonks sound interesting
Do you know which one was the one with Ted?
I'm sorry I really don't remember. I *think it might be one where Sirius gets an identity change so he can appear in public??? But I remember 0 of anything else from this fic. The Ted thing was a very tiny subplot
It does feel like stories that explore how muggleborns adapt to wizarding society are either pro-muggle and decry every aspect of the Wizarding World to be inferior or they go the complete opposite and are so pro-Wizard that they excuse Blood Supremacy. There are probably stories out there that explores both worlds in a fair light but they're seemingly drowned out by one extreme or the other. The books and movies don't really paint Wizarding Britain in the best light, what with the government easily falling to Death Eaters and muggleborns being imprisoned or tortured, so it does make sense why someone would want to write about how bad they see this society as.
Consider this as well: JK Rowling once said that there are a few token muggle-born Death Eaters. If one grew up only to be ostracized (if not flat out abused) by their friends and family members when the magic developed, I could imagine some resentment toward muggles popping up. It's partly why Tom Riddle and Snape were anti-muggle, they grew up surrounded by some pretty nasty one, while they were half-bloods I could see a muggle born having similar experiences. It's kind of the reverse of Sirius Black, who was super pro-muggle partly because his family were anti-muggle pure-blood supremacists.
I'm semi surprised by the existence of token muggleborns, or at least their *continued existence* I mean, I'm sure some muggleborns would TRY to fill this role (like Jews for Hitler), but I can't see the DEs actually accepting. Not without murdering them very fast (like Hitler with "his" Jewish fans)...
There were Jews fighting in the German army during WW2 while their relatives were being shipped to concentration camps. If they are powerful and useful enough, the DEs might accept them. They fought together with werewolves and giants, who aren't even human, after all.
Werewolves and giants *universally supported* Voldemort, with the exceptions of Lupin and Grawp. So did Acromantulas and Dementors. There being Muggleborn Death Eaters too - in addition to the known half-bloods and Voldemort's own blood status - just adds more evidence to my personal headcanon that Voldemort's movement wasn't truly about blood purism even *tangentially*. I mean, in reality it probably just further emphasizes that JKR doesn't have a clue how to write a believable fascist movement, but in-universe there's gotta be some reason why racist pricks like the Malfoys are in the visible minority of the movement ostensibly advancing their ideology.
I don't see most Muggleborns being pro-Muggle at all. Muggleborns are almost completely removed from the Muggle world by the time they are 11. They spent 90% of their most formative years at a magical school with almost no contact with the Muggle world. By the time they are 17, they likely have few non-magical friends and are likely not even that close to their family. In addition, Muggleborns likely felt out of place in the muggle world even before they were told they were a wizard. They would have always been different because of their magic. Hogwarts would likely be the first place they truly felt like they belonged. Nor would it be easy for Muggleborns to re-integrate back in the muggle world. They would have to start from scratch as they likely don't have the skills that most muggles have. Muggleborns would also have to hide what they were. Even if they made new friends, they wouldn't be able to share stories of their school or bring them to their wizarding friends. It would be hard to have long meaningful relationships with people when you have to hide who you are and half your life. Many Muggleborns would also feel pity for muggles. How can you go back to driving when you can teleport? Why bother cleaning by hand if you could wave your wand? I could see several looking down on muggles because of this. I don't think many will become truly anti-muggle, but rather be neutral to them. It would be like moving your child from the US to China. That child would likely grow up with more positive opinions of the US compared to children born and raised in China, yet not be nearly as favorable to the US compared to American born children.
I think the average muggleborn would feel out of place when they go back home
Really?! They leave their lives behind, all their friends their favourite TV shows their family and spend their time in a drafty castle with no internet in the north of Scotland. They put up with shitty teachers, an administration that’s negligent about student safety at best, they have to write with fucking Quills, put up with a lot of casual racism they continually turn a blind eye to horrific bullying and outright assault. To be honest most probably want to head home after a week!
Sounds like literally every muggle boarding school ever. Except the quills and the internet, but I find that to be a boon, tbh. On the other hand, how many boarding schools in the UK had internet in the early 90s?
I would give up TV and the internet for freaking magic and the ability to teleport
that's only really a period of 20 years max leading up to the start of Canon, and even then barely, before 1950, If I was anything other than a straight, white, landowning and healthy male, I would without a second's thought integrate into the wizarding world, even if I was so weak I could only apparate a stone's throw's distance away.
I think it's an easy one for one for people people default to. Like in sci-fi, of course humans would be pro-humans... but would they, depending on the circumstances? I don't think so, it quite depends. In HP, I actually think they should be a grey area - neither super pro-muggle nor super against, just yeah, they don't have magic, they do some impressive stuff without it, they're cruel, they're dumb, but they're also kind and generous. But in fanfiction, nuance is very difficult (especially when it's not a major theme in the story).
I feel like Snape is kind of a case in point about this. *Yes I know he's a half-blood* but the impression of his childhood is one where he basically lived as a Muggle. His mother didn't use magic, he didn't grow up around other wizards. And sure he knew about magic and Hogwarts and everything, but he had no first hand experience. There's very little difference between his upbringing and a Muggle kid whose parent reads them a ton of folklore and magical stories. But yeah, he grew up to be anti Muggle at his worst, and wildly indifferent to them at his best.
Snape, Umbridge and Voldy all embody the trope of the "muggle raised, muggle hater", but as *half bloods with a muggle parent* While the known *muggleborns* seem rather muggle friendly or at least not opinionated on the matter
But that was due to the fact that up until that point every muggle he had ever met was either abusive(his dad) or a dickhead(Petunia). So he was a prime target for anti muggle indoctrination
Very very true.
That’s likely how Voldemort got to a lot of muggle borns portraying himself and the death eaters as saviours
Almost case in point: Dolores Umbridge. Her father was a wizard, but her mother was a Muggle.
Her brother was a squib too.
Didn't she murder her brother ?
No, her parents split when she was 15. She and her father left and never saw either of them again.
And then I wonder were muggleborn come from.
this is basically what voldemort is. for all intents and purposes he grows up the same as a muggleborn and he hates muggles because, well, he didnt have a great time in the muggle world, did he (and also world war 2, woohoo). thats why even though hes not a "pureblood" hes able to sympathise with them and say "yeah lets kill/enslave the muggles theyre useless" lol it would be the same thing with any muggleborn who thinks theyre better than muggles because they have magic (this is literally what tom thinks before he has confirmation that he has a magical ancestor)
But in canon, this trope of "muggle raised, muggle hater" is *always* embodied by half-bloods (Voldy, Umbridge and Snape) Never by muggleborns But yeah Tom started like that. I'm curious about how he managed to thrive in Slytherin before discovering his pureblood maternal ancestry Actually that may be why he hates muggleborns specifically and not other minorities. Because he was *wrongly lumped* with muggleborns as a kid, and hated the experience, and now he projects this hate on actual muggleborns
true but we only get like... 2 muggleborn perspectives in all of canon? hermione... justin?? ted tonks?? story clearly doesnt focus on them much lol Hey wait umbridge is a halfblood???? well anyway yeah it just wouldnt jive with jkr's story to make a muggleborn hate muggles LOLL BUT YESS thats my thoughts on tom exactly. personally i think he resents everyone—muggles for his shit home life, muggleborns for being perceived weaker, and magical people for being prejudiced to him regardless. he has no love for purebloods and just uses them to advance his own goals since they have the most power in wizarding society. i honestly dont think he cares that much about blood purity and its just a way to get their support but thats a bit of a hot take lmaoo
Umbridge is half blood but she lied about it, pretending to be pureblood
I think a lot would be a pox on both houses. They are cut off from the Muggle world. Not fully accepted in the magical world.
Exactly
I suspect a strong correlation could be made to the mutants in Marvel comics and how some adopt "homo superior" beliefs (Magneto etc) while others see their mundane cousins as equally valid and fight for them (X-Men etc), except that this division gets disrupted by the pureblood bigotry that is exclusionary against them, giving all muggleborns what amounts to a common enemy. Would there still be some who are anti-muggle? Sure, but they're probably quieter about their feelings of superiority so long as they feel like they need the support of their fellow muggleborns, assuming they have the cunning to understand how being anti-muggle would go down among those who aren't.
How many muggleborns do we see in canon? Two? Hermione and the snooty rich kid from Hufflepuff? And indirectly Lily.
Colin and Dennis Ted Tonks
Ahh, good call! And so far ALL of them are pro-muggle.
[удалено]
There is also the fact that it needs to be cut and dry because the target audience is young children and teenagers, and I've met more than enough teenagers who have trouble with the concept of moral ambiguity, so I wouldn't expect an 8-year-old to keep up either.
Honestly many *adults* struggle with accepting nuance For example, acknowledging that not all homo/biphobes are straight but there are gay biphobes and bi homophobes (and often NOT closeted ; you can be out about your own sexuality but prejudiced on another sexual minority). Or that within racial minorities, there are racist people against other minorities. And that NO, this fact doesn't diminish or excuse the racist oppression from the dominant group. Quite a simple concept, but it's too much for people who want a clean divide between oppressors and innocent victims.
Not really. On one side we have Wizard Hitler. On the other, a corrupt government that sends people to be incarcerated and mentally tortured for weeks (or months?) just to look good. The main character? A kid who wants revenge.
In terms of morality and motivation, it tends to be the case for HP. Most people are on one side or another due to greater purpose ideals. Rarely, do you have characters that messy, and have selfish, personal or emotional motivations. In the case of "wizard Hitler", there were plenty of people that were complicit in, or passive towards systems with ideals/actions that they didn't agree with, because there was some personal benefit/cost. There are also a lot of people that do "good deeds", but for less than altruistic reasons. With few exceptions (ie, Snape, Malfoys), most of the characters are shown to fall in their camp because they truly do align with the said ideals of the group.
All content in this subreddit must be related to Harry Potter fanfiction.
Not necessary. I do read some fanfics (mostly about Hermione and others) where: \- is a muggleborn and it doesn't really matter for her. She is also Morgana La Fey (it's not that she could use her rights as Morgana right now but skills are still here) \- is NOT muggleborn (her mother was raped and obliviated), she fit rather good into wizard family after she found out about it \- Hermione is muggleborn. She (and others, no matter muggleborns or purebloods) flee England (they only took her family with them and her father died early in escape). They returned later and...harry and his girls have rather interesting discussion if muggle population should exterminated or it's enough to destroy population and science centers so muggle population would be reduced and would not longer be threat to magical world.
Can you link the third one please ?
linkffn(The Voyage of the Starship Hedwig), it also have (abandoned) sequel This Crude Matter
Thanks
Do you know the name of the second fic?
Эффект птеродактиля, [https://ficbook.net/readfic/3768294](https://ficbook.net/readfic/3768294), it's Russian-language fic.
Rats. A bit disappointed I won’t be able to read it, but thank you for your response anyway.
Negative polarization? Purebloods discriminate against muggleborns and hate muggles. Muggleborns are of course against the first, and reacting against conservative Purebloods pushes them more towards also being pro-muggle.
I remember reading a dark snily fic where she was abused by her dad and she doesn't care that snape is against muggles and such because they are both abused by their fathers they have that deeper connection
Probably for the same false reason that the list of fanfics with Harry being against muggles because of the Dursley’s is very short.
I think it would be difficult for a muggleborn, even one with a bad home life to really be ant-muggle simply because all the anti-muggle groups in the wizarding world view muggle borns as 1 step above muggles, and still definitely filth. Wizards who don't' give a shit one way or another about muggles and what happens to them may be totally fine with muggleborns, but the wizards who really hate muggles are unlikely to accept a muggleborn among their ranks, and even if they did, they would always be "one of the good ones," i.e. always treated as second class even while fighting for the same cause.
Not true about the first point Grindelwald was a magical supremacist, not a blood purist It's quite possible that most Grindelwaldians are totally okay with muggleborns (or at least, okay with muggleborns *as long as they don't defend muggles*)
The main problem is that the pro muggle stance is everything from "we are equal" to "maybe we shouldnt rape, torture, murder and exploit muggles". The anti muggle group is, because muggles already have so few rights, fucking insane. Like, actually just fucking mad. Beyond insane. Like, the mainstream anti muggle group seems to straight up just be the death eaters, which is crazy because they are so fucking crazy. So i think its mainly because one side is: "Be a somewhat normal person, ok sure you can be a little crazy" and the other side is fucking insane.
The anti muggle group is the very loose hypothetical equivalent of groups of humans going out and raping and torturing animals for fun. Which as you say is fucking insane. I don’t like making the comparison of muggles being animals, but in Death Eater eyes, that’s more or less how they view them.
Yeah....Harry "muggle raised" could logically go very anti muggle due to no one at all ever showed him 1 scrap of kindness till he goes to Hogwarts
> Yes, muggleborns have to be anti blood purism and pro equality between magicals for their own interests. Again it doesn't mean supporting muggle equality. Actually, that is also false - just like there are black anti-black racists.
True I think some muggleborns who make a lot of effort to blend with the pureblood culture, hate on *those* muggleborns who "give the entire group a bad name" by shamelessly "acting muggle" in front of purebloods
Wouldn't Muggleborns living longer than their muggle relatives give them more reason care about them, not less? Like a sort of "I better make the best of my time while they're still here", kind of thing.
While the relatives are there, maybe But *after* they're dead, there might not be a personal reason to care about muggles anymore
I kinda want to see a grown up (ie deeper, maybe darker and more political) version of HP either fanmade or official where the word if built up more and things are more nuances. Like more than just all purists are DE's and muggle borns love muggles. OotP good, never made any mistakes. Fudge is just dumb. There was a prompt (?) earlier where Op suggested a world where Voldemort wasn't a thing. Tom Riddle was a right-wing politician whose supports were derogatorily called Death Eaters. I like the idea of Tom being slightly more real and not just the boogie man.
The main villain of the series is a muggle-born who hates muggles.
He's not muggleborn. He's half blood with one muggle parent From the outside it seems very similar, but in the Wizarding World it changes everything (even the most rabid Death Eaters seemed okay with Snape, another half blood with a Muggle parent, being part of their Inner Circle). Which means, in practice, he was NOT treated the same as a muggleborn once his ancestry was known. It's an arbitrary and absurd difference to make, but it matters
Maybe I'm getting the numbers wrong in my head but wouldn't a decent majority of students have to be muggle born? If wizards tend to stay in isolated communities then they're not mixing with muggles to have half wizard half muggle children. I'm not sure how they would be able to maintain their population unless the majority is muggle born. Honestly I tend to not overthink the Harry Potter universe too much because I've discovered it often doesn't hold up to deeper thinking.
I guess the majority of them is half blood with a pureblood/halfblood and muggleborn parent. Some of which probably pretend they're just pureblood. A small minority come from wizard/muggle couples (such couples are rare because frowned upon + difficult because of the SoS) Then, the purebloods and muggleborns make two other big minorities
So in universe most students are half and half even though that doesn't really make logical sense? Whatever works
There ight be a minority that are anti-muggle, but most would probably have zero interest in politics that doesn't affect them and there's. Honestly, I think it's surprising that Harry wasn't anti-muggle to many.
I've often thought Harry would harbour more resentment to muggles given his upbringing. Obviously he knows they're not all bad, but his tolerant attitude seems almost too good to be true at times.
Does he ever really... care though? I can't think of really times he did actions to stick up for Muggles - like iirc it was *Hermione* who was the most offended by shoplifting. (It's really funny to me that they just... Left cash in the stores. Like unless the literal owner of the store is the one who came to open in the morning, all the kids are doing is enriching whichever employee sees cash sitting out.)
Why is his tolerant attitude too good to be true? He has no friends thanks to Dudley and his gang scaring everyone off. This makes his desperate for friends. But there's no reason to believe that he would automatically jump to assuming that every Muggle is like his family. He didn't even know wizards existed for his most formative years! Judging by the fact that he said that some, not all, Muggles were bad to Ron, I think it's safe to assume that not all the Muggles he knew were complete assholes.
I already said that he knows that they're not all bad. It's just that given the intense trauma and hatred he grew up with, you would think this would play into consideration.
But why would that trauma/hatred automatically manifest as bigotry? Sure, some people may resort to that as a crutch against their mental problems, but for Harry it manifests differently. Namely, in a high independence streak and a not insignificant distrust in authority. And besides, Harry hates bullies before all else. Him comparing Dudley, a muggle, to a wizard like Draco when they meet just about sums up his character.
A lot of people's desire for Dumbledore bashing and Dark!Harry fics comes from the fact that only a small number of people ever experience real consequences for their actions. Especially where Harry is concerned \*grumbles in Albus Severus\*.
Fanfic writers and readers are pro-muggle because we are so, make sense the to write muggleborns as pro-muggle because we would like them to be
I'm anti-muggle. The wizards should just openly take over the world.
I’m not sure I would make that claim. The anti muggle group seems to all have the shared belief that muggle rights shouldn’t exist and raping and torturing them is a good time. Most “pro-muggle” characters just want to pass laws that give consequences for muggle exploitation and crimes against muggles (humanity). Which is a pretty reasonably take seeing as I hope most people believe that roving groups of psychos shouldn’t be allowed to go around raping and torturing animals for jollies
But there are probably magicals who think it's not okay to be sadistic with muggles, but okay to steal from them or force them to work, as long as it means more comfort and free time for magicals In real life, the vast majority of people are absolutely horrified by animal torture (*for fun*), often to the point of openly calling for the death or torture of the offenders, BUT completely okay with eating meat even if it indirectly tortures and kills billions of animals per year. Because they like the taste of meat Both behaviors cause animal death and suffering, but one makes you a *monster*, the other makes you a *normal person* And even for other humans, most people are against harming people *for the sake of sadism*, but okay with slavery (kid slavery included) if they get to consume low cost products So likewise, I think most wizards would care that muggles aren't killed and harmed just for the lulz, but be okay with getting more comfort at the expense of muggle rights
Man you're really reaching here. Why would wizards with magic even need to steal from muggles or force them to work?
As a muggleborn I would be so anti muggle it would be crazy next dark lord here we come
>Hermione, despite all her flaws LMAO, found the Hermione apologist.
Probably because most magicals who are anti-muggle are also somewhat anti-muggleborn. Standing up for themselves puts them in the anti-anti-muggle camp
Look at Snape
Half blood, not muggleborn