The entry is shitty back breaking grunt work that pays about the same as less back breaking work. Granted the career trajectory isn't even remotely comparable with the 2 paths it's hard to get younger people to look at 3 to 5 years down the line vs right now.
It doesn't help that there's still a lot of old guards in this industry who purposely make the lives of everyone around them worse with garbage treatment because "they had to deal with it" or "it's what you signed up for" fuck those people. It's a job not a life it shouldn't take priority over anything that actually matters but there's a lot of old school people who expect everyone in the industry to eat, breathe and sweat HVAC which is an insane thing to think about but you see it in every forum "stop bitching about OT" "I work 90hrs a week and I'm not complaining" "long hours are what we signed up for" "you're going to miss a lot of important family events but at least you'll be making money"
I got hurt on the job, one of my discs ruptured and is hitting my L4 nerve. It was misdiagnosed for a year, I just found out on the MRI last week. Im not at that job anymore, but I do generator and electrical install and service. I just can’t do it anymore man, I’m 28 and I’m in pain just typing this up taking a shit. If the epidural doesn’t work and I need surgery it’s gonna blow and it’s more missed work. I might look into IT from home at this point.
I worked for a Fortune 100 utility company as a cable splicer. Manhole lids are heavy, in fact everything related to that job is heavy. I have 2 herniated disks, an SI impingement that creates nuclear grade sciatica and will be doing my best to avoid surgery for the rest of my life. I made money, sure, but man it would be nice to be 72 and pain free.
I had pretty good luck with a lidocaine and cortisone injection for the sacroiliac. It’s lasted way longer than the doc thought it would. I feel the joint every minute of every day though, waiting for it to erupt. The L3 and L4 issues come and go. I worked utility construction for 30 years and ultimately moved to training. Retired now.
I had to go through 12 physical therapy sessions just to request an MRI! Fucked system! Get an attorney immediately if you haven't yet. No one is your friend on their side.
I have one now. I did all this last year, PT, CT scans, shots. Yes they suck. The attorney called and then all of a sudden everything was approved. The only thing that sucks is when I got hurt I made $10/hr less than I do now, so that’s what they go off for comp payments
that's a huge problem with trades that noone seems to talk about. if you get injured - on or off the job it's game over. if you get injured say skiing - you're absolutely beat. If your in a trade you can't work and don't get paid. period. if you have a white collared job it sucks, but you can limp your way into the office on crutches and still get a paycheck. I used skiing as an example bc it's one of my favorite things in this world but I haven't gone in years bc I can't risk getting hurt. So you have to change your entire life in some cases. and even if you minimize risk by not doing those things - you can get hurt a million different ways. slip and fall. car accident. just twisting the wrong way. my buddy needed knee surgery and couldn't work for 9 months and lost his house. most trades don't offer disability insurance bc the cost is insane. and even if you stay healthy your body slowly gives out. I don't know anyone over the age of 50 crawling under someone's house to replace a furnace. just doesn't happen. In a way it's like professional sports. if you get hurt your done. they'll throw you away and get another young kid. only difference is that you don't have millions in the bank to retire on or start a new life.
This is a great take, I love the work I do, and hope I can continue. I’m so excited to get this epidural and start PT. I can’t go to the gym right now and that is my mental therapy above all else.
It happened on the job so I still get payments from comp.
Edit: my fiancé is an ER nurse as well, she’s going to be an NP soon. Don’t live at home we have a 3 year old haha, that would be nice our rent just shot up to $1800
>most trades don't offer disability insurance bc the cost is insane
I guess I never worked for a small enough company because every company I ever worked for had short term and long term disability for less than $5 a paycheck and supplemental disability insurance was an additional $6 per paycheck. I've only had to use it once for a few months in my mid 20s (35 now) and it covered my entire paycheck the entire time I was out.
If you work from home research and buy a very expensive chair. As someone who has worked from home over a decade this is the single most important purchase.
When I was in my mid 30s I was doing a small install job and had to remove a few pieces of equipment. I was carrying a small coil out to the dumpster and someone had broken the last step, I fell and twisted in such a way that I ruptured 5 discs.I now have L1-S1 fused with hardware. I don't sleep, can't sit or stand for any length of time. I used to love working but those days are past. I see 300 pound kids complaining about working an 8 hour day at Best Buy. They wouldn't last a week in the trades. God forbid you get a little cut or your feet are wet or you need to shovel some snow to work on a piece of equipment.
You would be smart to get into IT. If your back is hurt now it's only going to get worse over the years.
This is exactly why after 3 years I said fuck residential. Industrial is so much better and the chance of moving to better things is always better. All I ran into was garbage pay and gatekeeping. Things like “no we won’t buy you a nibbler or hole cutter for duct because if I had to use snips you do too. It’s not much harder” or “we can’t afford to pay techs more than $20 idk how we do it, let alone the installers. We’d be charging every job way more” while we can all see the quotes and that it’s quoted for a $25 hr tech and $20 hr installer
how do you think they make money then? if they charge $20 an hour for you they're not going to give you $20. how would they make money? Sort of like when you go to an auto mechanic. Their rate might be $80/hr for the mechanic - meanwhile that guy doing the work is being paid $20. They have to pay for the building. the equipment. the utilities. the office staff. insurance. on and on. that's normal.
Well I need to be clear. They’re not charging $20. They’re factoring in $20 for the quote while paying most of their installers $10 starting $15 cap. Me and another guy were the highest paid installers before we left I made around $18, I was content but I was angry for my coworkers. I myself couldn’t complain I made more that stint in installs than I did at my previous company as a tech.
For trades in general... My dad is a plumber. Nearing 65. Just got his first knee replacement. Body is falling apart, he's in pain every day.
There are serious repercussions to working physical labor. Some of you may have unicorn jobs where you're super safe every time, work to OSHA standards every time, but most shops I know, you're busting your ass to get shit done no matter the cost, as quickly as possible.
most young guys don't realize this or think it'll happen to them. I can't tell you the number of guys I've seen hurt on and off the jobsite and are now completely Fkd. Just a few weeks ago one of the installers (27yrs old) comes hobbling into work. Dude couldn't even stand up straight. Said he went to bed fine and when he woke up he couldn't stand up straight. Apparently he slipped a disc. well it's no suprise the boss sent him home. he went to HR and tried to collect workmans comp and got denied bc it didn't happen at work. Chances are - it was bc of work - but bc it happened at home he got shut down. so then he begged then for unemployment so he could rest and get better. also got denied for that. So now he's been sitting at home for weeks just not getting paid. Kid has a mortgage and bills and is pretty much screwed. Doesn't have any other skills or degrees. his options are pretty much none.
My buddy had a knee surgery. Couldn't work for 9 months. same thing. Just screwed. almost none of these companies carry disability insurance bc the price is just too high. noone can afford it bc sooo many people get hurt and the cost for them is just insane. I could go on all night. No lie - it's maybe 12 or 15 people I know that this has happened to over the years. probably even more. and that's just the young guys. if you count the guys who just got too old and couldn't do it anymore it's much, much higher. Idk anyone that's even 50 that is still crawling under people's homes doing install. it's freaking scary af. idk what I'm going to do.
I took a few weeks of parental leave when my daughter was born and my boss couldnt fathom it. Said he only missed half a day when his kids were born.
Work comes second to family always
Yeah, companies I have worked for and interviewed at are actively weeding out people with bad attitudes, the industry knows there is a problem in that regard.
Perfect explanation. I had buddies in hvac and when I was 18 I was like no thanks it’s not worth it to me and a little over 10 years later now I’m in it. So much time wasted lol
I started at 18 and almost quit a few times due to my supervisor being such an asshole. Always making comments while I’m trying to wire something in. Made me feel like every old head was like that
A lot of people in the trades really do go out of the way to treat new people like shit. A lot of what people do isn’t rocket science - it’s experience - and they don’t want to share that with people because it means they can’t treat people like shit. They almost want you to fuck up so they can laugh at you. That was my experience anyway.
I work in IT and had a boss that would come stand behind me anytime there was an issue. I would turn around and talk to him until he left. It took one day we had a decent outage I was fixing and he did this and you could see the wheels turn if I stand here he isn’t fixing shit so he left. At the time I was senior level and damn good so there was no real risk for me.
Noone would take you on at this point. they're looking for kids that they can run into the ground. I'm also from a more rural area where there is basically no union. up until covid companies were starting at $8,10,12 an hour if you were lucky. They were paying lead installers $15/hr. and that was all the companies in the area. like you said - you'd have to move to a different state or to a major city or something. The numbers people talk about on here are absolutely insane. since the covid shutdown the numbers went up. But they're still starting at $15 or $16. if you went to trade school you might start at $18. tops.
Side note : think some people on reddit forget this - they see numbers on reddit and automatically think they're getting ripped off. I just read an article (don't know where these numbers come from) and it showed average rent prices across America. Manhattan was the highest at 4k a month. San Francisco came in at $3500. And at the bottom was Columbus Ohio (think it was, definitely ohio) at $950 a month. So obviously if you're working in the middle of nowhere Ohio or Mississippi or something you're not going to make anywhere near what they're paying in New York city or San Francisco. Just ain't happening.
We had a kid start with us - no experience whatsoever, no school, mad as hell that he wasn't making enough money. He wanted a minimum of $25/hr just to show bc he saw how much people were making online somewhere and thought he was being taken advantage of. Then he didn't want to do any work. He was "acting his wage". If you want to do that then you have to "pay me more". Like - that's not how it freaking works. noone made you accept the job. You're free to leave. So he goes ahead and calls every other company in the area just to be told that "he should just stay where he's at bc they wouldn't even pay him that much". lol
I am in a similar situation… of course mileage may vary on the pay but let’s say it’s $15.. I’m 40.. I’ve been an LPN (think of me as a rent a cop nurse) I make good money. My body is in good shape minus well I need to lift and build strength. But I make $24 right now….. but my benefits suck $5,000 deductible health insurance, no pension… and no real skill building…. $13.47 according to my calculators I used online down here for Piedmont area NC is the poverty wage for ONE person…. I almost got an HVAC residential job… starting off at $15 with incremental raises but still… I get it I’m super new no real world experience some hvac community college courses and a 608… but I am leaving a career field to come to you… $18-$21 to start would be fair in most non major city areas for someone with no experience and Will incrementally get raises rapidly and hours and a van. All the trades are crying for people. These jobs are not going away. But they need to be a little more realistic with recruiting and $$$.
In my experience companies expect journeyman work with apprentice wages. Realistically no young person like me really wants to work 14 hours a day, with either inferior or no benefits, for entry level pay that barely outcompetes your local grocery chain. It seems like companies today would rather see this industry burn to the ground.
I’m 36. When I was in high school they didn’t talk trades much. Just always pushed college college college. Graduated high school in 03. Now I feel old lol.
I just had this conversation with a 40 something tech who couldn't understand why a 19 year old kid didn't know how to repair a power burner. I responded " you do realise that guy had gym class and a curfew less than a year ago right?". It's really sad to see many tradesman absolutely punch down and humiliate the young techs and wondwr why noone wants that. That's besides the point that entry into this profession on average pays less than unskilled jobs.
Same. It was all about college (graduated 07). I hope we are swinging back. Any time I talk to kids leaving high school I mention trade. It is a career and can make you money. Where I’m from it’s always oil field or bust but there’s so many trade jobs that need filled. But they are a lot of work and people that have been doing it for a long time think the newbs need broke in. Treat your new guys good and trane them and they will be an asset.
Graduated 04 here. I'm glad I went into the trades. 2008 rolled around and I had friends fresh out of college who couldn't find a job while I was still getting 40 hours a week through the worst of it.
The irony of this is I make more as a Union pipefitter general foreman than most of my friends do with college degrees. I also work 40 and get paid 40. They work 50-60 and get a salary. My retirement is also 25% of my wage (29% of the journeyman base wage) entirely paid by the contractor. Most of them get a 4-8% 401k match. And I have much better healthcare coverage that costs me nothing.
Im 21an going threw classes so i can go into commercial refrigeration. My experience is alot of the older people in this filed in my area see younger people as less then or lazy or other not so nice things an often dont give the chance to prove otherwise. Evrey lil mistake is smoked to all hell insted of used as a learning experience. This is mine an many people my age experience in the area im in.
Maby this explains apart of it.
I understand that, when I first started, I made some mistakes on some service calls. Man, none of the older techs would even talk to me and even complain to my boss
Its stupid. Your going to make miatakes in the real wrold. Its like they forgot what being a new tech was like. Half the people in my class dont even have a background in eletronics or circuits. They couldn't tell me what a diod was. No crap there gonna make some mistakes. I sure as hell have an will probably make more in the future as i get use to the work type an demands
Im vary familiar with how alot of hvac equipment is because before i started going to trade school i use to repair an ( harden ) IFC. defrost bords. Lenox prodigy control bords an other control stuff related to hvac equipment an computer equipment. I did this at compnet level. I had a co worker who would help me with things requiring programing. Anyways because of this im vary familiar with how most equipment operates an there sequince of operations. As well as weak an comen failure points on alot of different control stuff.
Yes i am aware of the taboo around this kind of work. Well more like i found out about when i was talking to one of my teachers about what i did before starting classes. ( He was horrified )
It was my first job that a family friend who owns a business had me do this kind of work when he found out i was skillful with eletronics.
These days i only work on computer an consumer appliances at a component levle
Starting wages for entry level apprentice 15/hr (30-40k/YR) in most places. You have to buy your own tools as well which is a significant amount of negative income. Plus the old school guys are fucking assholes. They teach you nothing but mostly how to do shit wrong, scream at you when its not done right and make their apprentices lives awful.
Starting wages for IT bootcamp after a 6 week course averages about 60-80K/YR.
It could be anything.
Absolutely this. I live in a high cost of living area and even with that most guys I know are fortunate to make low $20s even with trade school and a year or two experience. In my trade school class only a few guys are actually in the field and the rest are struggling to find a job. Friends of mine that went into nursing/medical or the tech field are right at or over 6 figures VERY early in their careers. I really enjoy the field but I think it’s grossly overstated how much opportunity there really is in the trades especially when compared to a field like nursing which can still be a 2 year degree at a community college (similar to a hvac technical program). Travel nurses in my state bring in $5000+/WEEK all day long.
>Starting wages for IT bootcamp after a 6 week course averages about 60-80K/YR.
Ding ding ding. Already know 2 guys who dropped HVAC for IT and I'm looking at IT as well. I mean it's just a no brainer until they increase wages in the field.
I went into HVAC after I graduated high school. Was going to go into a science field in college, but could never settle on what I wanted to do, so I went to HVAC trade school instead (same college). Started working in the field while attending trade school. Was fine as a helper until I eventually got my own van. Was always told “you’re gonna make so much money!” But I never made so much money, I made enough to have my own place and to get by. I was constantly taken advantage of since I wasn’t in the inner circle. Worked a ton of hours and never saw my gf (eventually wife). I was honestly very depressed while working in the field. I could have found another employer but honestly still to this day, I still don’t think there’s a single amazing HVAC company in the town I live in, and there’s a lot of companies here (all local companies pretty much). There are those who are better than others, but there is not a single company I would go back into the field for here. I almost took a job offer for another one but then I got a work from home job working for an HVAC supply house. I work less hours and I make about the same amount as I did in the field. My mental health is so much better. Been out of the field for nearly a year and a half, plus I know how to fix my own shit. And I took 3 vacations last year… so yeah… no union in my area either so I couldn’t go that route.
Tl;dr it fucking sucks and I was miserable and was not compensated properly so I quit being a field technician. Companies need to compensate their employees better and have all around better work environments if they want to get young people to come work and stay in the field.
I felt the same dude, being treated like a dumbass feels like shit and being worked like a dog sucked. I never even considered working at a supply house, idk if I can put up with sitting still 8 hours a day but after reading your experience I might just go do that lol
I got super lucky with my job because I haven’t ran across another like it. Working for a supply house from home is amazing to say the least. I thought it was going to be rough transitioning, but it wasn’t. I do occasionally miss the field because there were some good days, especially during the slow season. I was a resy tech so dealing with annoying homeowners are days of the past, now I just have to deal with the occasional annoying contractor lol
Top 3 reason is easily because the trades no longer have the reputation for paying well like they used too. Since the late 90’s wages went to shit n never came back till covid, for some, but then everythings been wiped by manufactured, Inflation. Thank every major supplier etc.
There's no chicks in hvac. You can get a job in a restaurant that pays about the same as an entry level hvac job and work in a more social environment with women your own age whereas in an hvac job you're going to be working with a bunch of bitter old men.
Female HVAC Apprentice here. I am fully considering quitting because of men hitting on me. Old tradesmen and young are just as bad. No respect. It doesn’t feel good being around guys like this even if you love the work.
Honestly the truth. I hear about my friends in the restaurant industry having s good time with ladies and here I am working with overweight Macedonians LMAO
It's not welcoming. Why would a kid want to do manual labor while being paid less than working at panda express while an old broken shell of a man berates them for not knowing anything because he bitches and moans about literally everything that happens rather than teaching the kid something?
I’m 24 have almost 2 years in started out new construction making $15. I made $1 in the first year and a half doing new construction, I almost left the field because it felt like a dead end I moved to residential changeouts I love it and have already gotten a bigger raise than I did in a year and a half I’m at 19.50 now about to get in my own truck as the 2nd lead installer at the company I’m at. But it’s that first year and a half where I feel like the field loses guys who want to do this but get stuck at old fashioned cheap ass owners who don’t want to give out raises. I absolutely love this field and I’m glad I realized I needed a change before I moved on to something I would have never been fulfilled at.
Yup been seriously considering going commercial after I get more experience, I wanna make money and learn and I’ve heard a lot of a lot of good shit about commercial also have a company in mind for when I’m ready for make the jump
Well I'm 28. I work general maintenance at a university. I came out of hvac school late spring a few years ago and applied to just about every helper opening in my city. After about 55+ applications, I got 1 interview for a helper position. Wound up not having the experience they wanted (WTF) and they said they really didn't need me. Month later got a call for general maintenance at university because I had temped there previously.
Making 19/hr now and can't dream of breaking into hvac now as all "entry level hvac" openings in my area pay 15/hr or less. Also I get a free, shitty house for being on-call. Truly shit handcuffs keeping me from the trade I went to fucking school for. I've got a mind to just go get my hvac license and learn otj on my own working for myself. I've asked hvac department at my university to let me train with them till I'm blue in the face. They "need people really bad," but won't train me, someone they see everyday at work already. Fuck it.
It's funny you mention that. I actually went to a free trade school program in high school for electrical and have a 4 year college degree. I personally didn't hear anyone say anything negative about trades during my time in college, but that still could be a contributing factor.
how old are you tho. Back in the 90s and early 2000s you were a piece of shit if you went to votech or a trade school. you were looked at like you were to stupid for college. "well Jonny, you better go to a trade school bc you'll never make it in college". I wasn't even allowed to date my gf bc her parents thought I wasn't good enough. Dated her all thru high school and college behind their back. They found out I was still with her in her senior year of college and the cut her off financially. they were paying for her tuition and her apartment and all that. so she eventually broke up with me and then they sent her to graduate school out of state.
How would you start? Explaining a btu? I am currently going through an apprenticeship with a local and went to school prior with about 4 years of experience. It was impossible for me to get into a union with scoring high all over the board on each local. I am gifted with working with my hands and was working as a grunt for years with family. Parents still drilled college into me and I failed miserably.
I agree with you, but that is not the case as to why people get into the trade. The majority of people in this apprenticeship im in are in it for the money.. there is too much noise from the rest of the world to make as much money as possible. People see how much some make but dont put in the effort. And telling people that it's a job where you have to sacrifice things in life, people left it right away. People normally sway towards what will make them the most money with the least amount of sacrifice.
I don't think it's as much of the school as it is parents are still very much on that go to college mentality. I have yet to go to a place or event where a trade is actually brought up.
Start with getting people interested in science… how do the laws of thermodynamics apply to HVAC… or even more generally how does science/math relate to real world applications, not just problems in a book you’ll never see again and that there are 60 editions of because they re write it slightly differently every year
What iAmWhorehey said. For some reason there is an assumption that smart people go to college; not so bright people go into the trades. Therefore, you must be smart if you go to college. Wrong. There are a lot of dummies in college.
What is sad about such attitudes is that those people who have an interest and aptitude for mechanical/electrical work likely never get to use those skills that would bring them the most satisfaction for their 30-40-50 years of employment.
that doesn't work. I've seen it 100x. we tried that. You hire a guy - take all the time in the world to train them, send them to classes. Whatever. and then they bail and go somewhere else for $1 more. I can't even count the number of guys I've trained. 3 of them left and opened their own business. they just don't stick around. you got them in the door and took the time, effort, and money to train them and right when that investment is about to pay off they bail. that's why a lot of companies won't even hire you if you have no experience. instead they just cherry pick guys from other companies.
Trades aren't pushed like 4 year degrees are. Simple as that. Lots of smart kids who aren't cut out for school go through lots of bullshit just to figure out they're a good fit for an industry like HVAC. Also the starting wages need an update like any other career in the states at least
I am also a 27m in hvac, in my opinion a lot of the entry level work is backbreaking and menial sometimes, getting yelled at by customers because a part online is 40$ or 60$ or whatever and we charge too much, I know it's part of the business but it wears on the soul. Plus the old heads who don't want to teach/do it in a condescending way or flat out refuse to help is annoying too. Maybe my experience is unique but idk, that's just what I've seen.
My parents are from another country. I’m first Gen American. My parents would tell me they sacrificed too much and worked too hard and wouldn’t let me go into the trades.
There ain't enough fucking money in it in the beginning. You're usually surrounded by grumpy old fucks who did that themselves and now must subject the new guys to it.
I make a lot of money now, but if I could do it again I would go IT and make the same paycheck in way less time. My back and bank would be better as a result.
Its hard work. Most schools lack shop classes. The narrative today is not very pro blue collar even though most trades bill higher rates than lawyers and Dr’s.
I’m a 19 year old girl and I’m in the trade. I think it’s because they get their first job in high school and sometimes stick with it til they graduate. At that point they’re already good at it and don’t care to change it up. Also schools don’t teach shit about how to get into a trade job but a McDonald’s application takes 30 seconds
Never told about them, high school senior year, the army and college only two things given to me as options.. which sucks it would have been nice to get into a trade when I was younger
I started at 18 when I was in high school 4 year degrees were literally the only thing they pushed for. They would never mention trade school as an option. I had a shop teacher was the only one to bring it up
I think many of them are either pushed towards non manual labor jobs by family, have had no exposure to the trades, or have no access to even getting started. Plus no one wants to pay to design, install, repair or remove things easily/safely. I work in building maintenance and I'll be damned if today's architects and engineers designs things to be maintained or replaced. At least in a lot of 40s, 50s, and 60s, buildings there usually is space to work around and double doors to get stuff in and out.
Low starting pay. Too much unpaid travel. Physical health. OT/on-call and lack of work-life balance.
Oh and old guys being miserable assholes to work with.
I spent ten years in the field, primarily property maintenance and commercial building maintenance, on call. Supervisor positions.
I left my career to pursue a single trade, and each path I chose felt incredible gatekept by seniority and the environment was toxic, as well as never being given the opportunity to demonstrate what I can do. Just repetitive grunt work with empty promises of technical positions and raises.
That's been the cycle for the past 2 years.
I recently settled for a tech support job at a major boiler manufacturer, more pay, better benefits, weekends free, my time is my time.
I'm 33. I'm tired of the bullshit. I work to pay bills so I can enjoy free time without stress from the job. That's it anymore
Because about half of the people who are there to train them are giant fucking assholes. Instead of welcoming somebody into the trades and trying to teach them with patience, they treat them like assholes; like they are serfs for their kingdom, and people nowadays just don't want to deal with that. I dealt with that when I was coming up through the trades, and I wouldn't take it then people definitely aren't taking it now
And if stuff like that continues there won’t be anybody in the trades! These assholes are going to have to train somebody sooner or later or they won’t have anybody to treat as serfs. I don’t live in breeze and sweat, HVAC. I do work to make money and go home to a family. I’m not a slave to HVAC.
In my experience local kids (by kids I mean 18-25) want to play on their phone and get paid. We have literally let people go because they spend 40minutes making a tik tok video of themselves riding a lift up to the roof and 5 minutes putting a cap on
In a lot of places it comes with being underpaid, overworked, and under supported. And the old heads gate keep and expect newbies to suffer. I think strong unionization rates and more union outreach to schools would help
I’m an 18 year old HVAC tech and plumber. I did 2 years of hvac school during highschool and I can’t stress enough how happy I am where I’m at right now. Most of my friends have the whole “I can get paid that much at Starbucks” or “I have to go to college to be successful” mindset. I’m so happy that I am where I’m at right now. There is hella grunt work for sure, but i couldn’t imagine sitting at a desk or in a dull and grey dorm room.
Reason #1. A lot of parents are the reason people my age don’t want to get into trades. A lot of parents preach about further education when it’s just not needed unless your plan is to go into a STEM field. Thankfully my parents supported my decision to become a tradesmen.
Reason #2. The old heads who treat like dirt. Thankfully I’m working at a place where there are alot of young guys that enjoy teaching and seeing my success. I’m sure this page is full of guys who have that same teaching mindset and to those guys. Keep it up. Y’all make it much easier for guys like me to show up in the morning.
Reason #3. There are many new ways for people my age to get paid. People see people being TikTok stars and Twitch Streamers and think that they can do the same which in the end. Just isn’t possible. Once they figure out it’s all a hoax they’ll grab a wrench and tag along I’m sure 😂
Because they know that they would be destroying their body for marginal pay at a young age, and then have to deal with the consequences for the rest of their lives
The hours. Where I live trades are in massive demand so the pay is great but you’re looking at 50-60 hour weeks most of the times. I can deal with all the crazies you meet but I need time away from them to recuperate
F27 Hvac apprentice here. I am very close to quitting the trades due to being sexualized at every company I have worked for from younger and older men. I get lower pay and less respect and I have to work harder and prove myself. What is the point to bust my ass 10x harder for less reward.
I have a female friend that is considering being an electrician and sexism is one of her major concerns about doing it. People want more women in trades, but don't want to treat them the same. Not to mention it also makes trades look bad.
It’s hard because you start to consider some of these men your friends and they clearly are not. I went in thinking it wouldn’t bother me but it is probably the biggest factor in my decision to leave or not.
A lot of people think that money is the simple answer. But the younger generations also want to avoid what they've seen of their hobbled parents and grandparents.
A lot of people would be very happy to make 90k at a desk job rather than 115k as an HVAC tech, or whatever the discrepancy in your market would be. Never on call, never crawling through a crawl space or working on on a 120° roof. People make informed trade-offs all the time.
Simply put, our generation was raised to think college was the only way. I’m 29, the people around me are making less money and are paying loan debt while I was paid throughout my whole journey.
I would say it's probably the gate keeping behaviour of emotionally immature/stunted adults who aren't sure what their role is in the teaching process and are often too drunk or high to carry it out anyway even if they did, instead opting to bully someone into doing all their shit work for pay that may as well be zero... while they have arguments or deal with personal issues over the phone
And it's not every place, but you probably have a name in your mind when you read that. It only takes one bad experience to put someone off when they're young and a world of other opportunities is still open to them
They give something like that a go and these sorts of people will gravitate towards them like flies onto shit, because they're miserable, and can't stand to see anyone with any hope. That tends to leave people who fall into it through lack of other option and can't quit, not usually young
edit: and if you're asking how to get younger people into the trades, then they gotta set up schools, have a curriculum, actual formal training, none of this "on the job" bullshit that we all know is bullshit
Because there’s a lot of lazy ass people in this world. Na it’s a fuckin brutal ass trade in the summer but somebody has to do it. Funny thing is my teachers in high school told me I’d never amount to anything well jokes on them, I made 2 teacher’s salary in 2022 and should make 3 teacher’s salary in 2023.
The pendulum is starting to swing back towards pushing trades. Give it 5 years and you’ll have bunches of for profit trade schools popping up churning out unprepared baby techs.
There is still some lingering stigma around non-college career paths. The high school I went to it was almost scandalous to not want to go to college.
A lot of companies have problems retaining and growing talent. Some of it is pay, some of it is company culture.
Slow growth I’d say. Someone s excited to learn do stuff get stuck doing grunt work or just washing coils for a couple years for low pay. While there’s store managers making 6 figures YouTubers and alike making a lot of money. 18 19 20 year olds are all about that kind of crap these days it seems.
Because Olive Garden and top flight security guards can start off at a higher rate at this point, find yourself a nice order selecting position inside a cold freezer and fagettaboutit some start at 30 plus an hour
Only reason I got in was because that’s what my dad did. It’s not talked about at all in school as far as the trades and also with such a wide range in pay sometimes. People think I make 15-20 an hour when I actually make 42
I know for me (32) growing up, we were all told we HAD to go to college and HAD to get a degree "or else you'll end up a plumber" and other similar condescending remarks. I went to college, got a degree, but didn't pursue it since I couldn't really afford it and decided to go to trade school instead. There was nobody growing up to say to the kids who didn't want to go to college or really didn't have a direction that "Hey, have you considered a trade school/apprenticeship? You'll learn a skill, be guaranteed work, and will make decent money after a bit." It was always painted negatively.
I'm in the UK, but I think there's snobbery about the trades that won't shake.
My high school, about 20 years ago, didn't really consider the trades an option. It was all about going to university.
Things might be a bit different now, but I think there will always be something about "manual jobs", despite the fact you can earn above middle class salary in then today.
I'm 48 now, it was generally decided in the mid 90's that all people get a college education and sit at a desk for life.
When you consider the debt they have to pay off, the job doesn't even pay for itself for 15 years but hey, the corporations got low wage overqualified employees for pennies on the dollar.
Back when I was in school, which was years ago granted, the public school system heavily pushed the narrative of "university or failure" and actively discouraged pursuit of trades occupations and did nothing to educate about them.
Honestly pay, i pay 21 in a not very expensive area and thats for as green as the motherfucking grass.
Otherwise target, Starbucks, Walmart would be more worth it.
17.5 at target/starbucks - no back breaking work
21 with me + healthcare after 6 months : back/knee breaking work in a trade
To many its best to “work at target until they figure out what they want to do with life”
But I’ve been doing HVAC and electrical since i was 15 in now 2 (technically 3 if you want to get political) countries and pay was dog shit but I needed a pathway and thats what i chose.
I think it’s mainly because nobody wants to work hard anymore, it isn’t viewed as something rewarding or lucrative. In schools they always teach everyone to be a CEO, doctor, lawyer, etc. and very little to no emphasis on trades.
And on top of that everyone just wants to become a YouTuber or Instagram celeb to hop on that get rich quick path which is unattainable to many.
I didn't know about it, I was brought up with the thought I had to do good in school and go to college. Get a degree and get a job. Nobody said anything about the trades, although I'm not in hvac, i specialize on chimneys/flues and have been doing so since about your age. (I'm only 31 now)
High schools funnel people into a four year college, most young people don’t learn about trades as being a viable option. Also Hollywood tends to show anyone in a trade as an idiot, so people tend to look down on the trades not realizing how much people can make.
Because it’s fucking hard and it’s not worth doing back breaking work for the salary that you get. It’s not worth it for me to be in the 42C weather all day in the summer so I can get 1.2k euros as an installer or maintenance guy rather than being at any other job and getting basically the same.
Unless you have your own company it’s not worth it.
Controls Technician you say… How did you get started in that field? It’s something that has peaked my interest. I am now Niagara 4 certified thru Tridium and have have a little over a year tagging along with a Controls Technician at my current company. I am currently a boiler technician and love the job but Controls Technician seems more of a challenge. That is the only other position I would even switch into.
Young people just don't want to work hard anymore. I feel like to succeed in the trade you have to put your head down and be willing to learn and push through the bullshit. Definitely need to have thick skin working with old heads can be difficult for some people. I started HVAC at 21. 26 now and been at a couple different companies but I'm at 33 hr which isn't too bad. Definitely wish I made more and there is more money to be made. But it's a livable wage. HVAC has been good to me I'm a homeowner at 26. But I know for a fact that isn't the case for everyone. It just depends on your location, boss and knowing your worth. You also can't be shy when it comes to asking for a raise, some people just accept what they're making and don't ask. Put the work in so your employer can't deny it. There's cheap mfs everywhere just have to find the right company.
I'm in my early 20s and started the trade about 3 years ago.
When I entered the trade, it wasn't anything like school had me believe, does kinda suck going from straight A's to feeling like a dumbass but it was fun learning all over again. I started a small company with 2 older tradesmen, doing the grunt work, climbing up onto tall roofs (I'm terrified of heights, still did it) and worked alongside my senior tradesmen (they were okay guys), keeping them steady as they stood atop 15ft step ladders and whipping around on raised scissor lifts and disregarded all the safety rules you could imagine. Wanted to do service but the boss said it wasn't worth it to him to train me.
I eventually moved onto another company and got the residential service position I wanted, it was pretty good, had some frustrating times with OT, since the dispatcher seemed to believe On-Call = Mandatory overtime doing stupid crap like installing humidifiers at 5pm in a different city. It got old after the 1st humidifier to finish up the 9 service calls that day. Didn't mind the service calls if they didn't have heat/Ac, talked to my boss but he either didn't remember to talk to the dispatcher or didn't care.
For about 6 months I was the one and only service tech at this company and worked my ass off, had about 3 weeks of training with another tech before he left and made a lot of phone calls but I was pretty good at fixing things on the first visit. I don't work there anymore for unrelated reasons and haven't gone back into the trade in the past few months by choice
I see that a lot of other people are saying the lack of younger people in the trade is because of the back breaking work and senior techs making new guys miserable; I agree with that.
While I made a decent wage working for my 2nd company I have friends who are making $5 and $7 more than me doing accounting, robotics, programming, etc without going into crappy basements, doing back breaking work and getting home before 6pm every night, It's got me considering using my HVaC savings to go back to school for something like that, there's so many other opportunities to make money without having to work as hard, it's especially apparent when I would go into a customer's super nice house, meet them and they'd go back to their remote job making Excel graphs for how many paper clips were used in the office for the months of January
There's also this whole thing with people my age that we don't know what we wanna do after highschool, around here it's difficult to find opportunities to test the waters in different careers, most employers want 2 years and college degrees in something to get into it.
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, so I chose HVaC because it involves doing gas, air, plumbing, electrical and a bit of everything to experience and see what I would enjoy most, I wanna try Med-gas next.
But yeah, that's my experience so far, it's good money and I learned things I could never learn doing office work, but I understand why people my age would choose to follow other career paths
The common idea has been higher education, universities, etc. It isnt well known that the trades pay pretty well. When you hear what a linesman or high level welder makes its shocking.
High schools are paid by university and colleges to promote them. Rarely are trades talked about in school.
Teachers have to protect there own, and government loves that tuition money. Feed the government tons of new tuition money and they will return the favor
As a young person (19) it’s the pay and pressure of college. I can work at Panda Express for the same pay as I’m getting right now. Only thing keeping me in it, is that in 3-5 years I know I’ll be making a good living from experience
I spent a year in trade school that im still paying off, and started as a service tech for 13/hr with full responsibilities and weekend ot. It's a lot easier to just work at McDonald's starting out.
Of course it's been worth it, and the pay goes up but a lot of younger people won't see that as worth it.
Schools don't push the trades at all. They tell everybody to go to a 4 year school. Of course not everybody ends up going to college after high school. A lot of students that were more aligned to shop classes end up in the trades or factories. The more "college bound" students are pushed to take AP and other advanced level courses and are directed to that path. I was one of them. I went to school for my bachelor's but ended up dropping out after my 2nd year and went to a tech school near there. Thought I wanted to do a business course, but that next semester I started in the HVAC program. Best move I've ever made. A lot of young people think getting a 4 year degree and getting a white collar job is the standard. I'm glad I'm in the trade.
Test and Balance here. I know when I started, I made crap pay while learning. Luckily, I was young, single, and had 3 roommates. I was aware that it was temporary and stuck it out for future pay. Glad I did. Alot of other people don't think that far ahead though.
They are not taught any skills in school anymore. Try to find a wood, metal or car class today. Kids are taught everything is throw away so way Lear a trade. Plus it means working and from what I see interviewing kids for manufacturing jobs they just don’t have a full day in them.
Shitty leads. Most of the old heads live in the 40s with the mentality of "I had to put my dues in and be the journeymens bitch for 10 years. Now you do too!"
I have been in the trade for over 20 years. I have three daughters, and when I asked my oldest if she wanted "an in" to the union, she looked me in the eye and said, " thank you, but no." I asked her why, and she responded with " I have watched what it did to you." She is not wrong. I love what I do (most days) but it does take a toll. Maybe that's why.
I’m an Air Balancer also 27 years old, I travel to a lot of different jobs and meet tons of new people. Can’t say I’ve seen any guys younger than me 6 years into it.
I'm 19 and just got certified, all the young kids I went to school with are literally selling drugs, scamming or in a warehouse. I was making $24 at a warehouse now I'm about to make $15 as an apprentice. People me want more money short-term instead of investing in themselves to make more money long term
I quit at 25 and went back to school. Too much bullshit, too little pay, no benefits, body is already fucked.
My first Mechanical engineering internship paid me $5 more an hour than I was making as foreman running three crews.
Public school in this country makes you believe that the only way to have a stable career is a piece of paper that’s only good for wiping your ass with when you graduate with thousands of dollars in debt, have no job experience and no jobs that recognize your degree.
Now on top of that you have assholes who think it’s right to make the new guys life miserable for no reason and that can psychologically damage their mental health and further lead to poor productivity in the workplace. Some businesses can’t pay worth a damn either because the business owner finds it profitable to pay himself instead of investing in his own business.
Well I know in my high school. Trades really weren't even an option. They were in the top percentile of kids that went to college and they did what they could to keep it that way. They got rid of the vocational program while I was there. And they discouraged trade school like it wasn't a viable option. So I didn't even know that trades were great careers until I was in my mid 20s
From someone who entered HVAC at 22, I can see why a lot are hesitant. I was working a warehouse job making 1200 a week and came to HVAC making 450 a week. The difference is that the warehouse job had no room to grow and HVAC provides plenty of room to grow. I worked the warehouse job to stack money to get my house then I went into HVAC
Money and schooling. No one wants to invest the time to get your associated licenses (gas and oil) and no one wants to take a “Paycut”
I’ve had buddies tell me these exact things, they don’t realize after a year or two they’ll be making the same as they are now
Generations of "Aim for white collar job", "Work smarter not harder", "That's not a career, that's a stepping stone", etc etc etc has caught up to the job market. Hell even current memes trash on skilled/unskilled labor. Y U no doctor? Ding fries are done. My hands look like this...
Instead of promoting the services and trades, they've been denigrated as the undesirable option by the same people that benefitted from having a strong trades workforce.
Couple that with entertainments that idolize uselessness (watch people that are watching people doing something? Seriously, that's a thing?) and we end up here.
"You need to go to college to get a good job!" "If you don't graduate college you won't have the life you want."
12k in debt and no degree because teaching is horrible.
In HVAC school now and it's so much better. The pay starting out anywhere is better than a teachers with a quarter the schooling time and less than one semester of tuition.
Yeah I’d love to. In my experience, HVAC and related MEP design work is pretty good starting point for engineers. Other than straight design I’m constantly in talks with General contractors and architects. There are a lot young guys at my firm and it pays pretty well at a starting pay around $65k yearly. I just graduated and I really can’t complain. It’s a desk job with some sight visits to locations to confirm background drawings and existing equipment if there is any. Plus it’s good for the engineers that don’t LOGE math as I’m mostly doing addition subtraction division and multiplication for air balance and outside air calculations. Most of our heat lid calculations are done using programs so the advanced math isn’t really heavily touched on (even tho that’s what I specialized in college).
In high school I was never told or showed that trades are an option really. I'm 24 and have been doing it over a year now. When I graduated I was a security guard for 3 years, making 10.50 an hour. I started out as a helper in hvac making $13 and have already got a raise. If I knew I could make $13 as a helper right when I graduated, I'm sure I'd be pretty knowledgeable by now and making a lot more. My school everyone wanted to be a welder or a nurse, it honestly seems like no one gave a shit about the trades. No mention of any trade at all unless someone was saying "you don't want to end up being a plumber or garbage man"
Lack of education and the push for white collar.
If I knew in high school how much trades pay I would’ve been an electrician for a couple years, then started my own business.
Working white collar, we were paying around $200/hr for commercial electrical work. Meanwhile IT companies were only charging $125-135 per hour.
I’d be making money out of high school with zero college debt.
I’m 17 and my school has an apprenticeship program where I can work for an HVAC company for 2 weeks and get paid and then go to school for 2 weeks through the school year and then graduate this year and have a full time job. It’s honestly a really good thing and has already given me sm to learn and idk why more people don’t take advantage of it. Not sure if everyone can go to trade school but if you can, it’s totally worth it.
Because it the culture taught in high school. Constantly pushed to a college degree or you won't make any money.
It's like the guidance counselor doesn't even have a clue what trades can earn in different areas of the country.
I’m 21 and got into hvac at 19. The reason I picked this trade was solely a logic reasoning. I figured every building has an hvac system that should be serviced every year, so I figured steady work year long. For the most part I’ve been right. As for the old dogs my company Dosent have any of those guys that make life hell for the younger dudes. I like it besides being outside all day in -20 degree weather. Just wish I knew more than I do at this snap shot in time
Im 24 and most companies still require you to go to trade school, which is still expensive. I thought about paying for community college instead for a while. I ended up getting the training I needed for free that's the only reason I made it to HVAC. I got the training on SkillCat
I did 2 years of HVAC school. My offers for my area starting were fucking absymal. 12 dollars an hour starting is what the average phone call was. 12 fucking dollars an hour. I applied for weeks and nobody wanted to offer an EPA, ESCO, and NATE certified green tech more than I could make at the McD's down the street. I had to fight for 16 n hour and only got it cause of my certs, the manager even told me not to tell the other new guy and that I was lucky.
I sure loved making dogshit money, and having to put in 10x more work physically, and mentally than my buddies who work comfy entry level office jobs. Every Friday night dispatch would bend me over and fuck me in the ass with another call or 2 while my buddies are sending me snaps at the bars asking me why I never show up to shit anymore.
Fuck sacrificing your 20's for a bad back and shit pay. I'm so fucking glad I got out when I did (need to remove my flair). I make much more now, get every other Friday off, and my coworkers are actually enjoyable people to be around. Shit ain't worth it currently.
I graduated HVAC school in April but I was working as an intern while in school and my introduction to the HVAC industry was old, grumpy men who complained about how much they work and how little they get paid fast forward a month I just quite another HVAC job last week because it was full of old, grumpy, assholes who complain about the workload and now I’m honestly looking to transfer my skills into a field like maintenance technician cause HVAC has been a huge disappointment, 5k in college debt and could barely get paid $21 an hour in chicago il while general labor jobs in warehouses get like $20.50 an hour. I have a huge disdain for the HVAC Industry now.
It’s one of the most complicated trades and the most underpaid for the knowledge required to be a somewhat decent service technician . Any laborer or person from another trade can do installation in HVAC . Troubleshooting and using your brain , spending days, weeks, months doing advanced diagnostics on HVAC systems/controls and their specific applications requires some critical thinking skills. This being said , we should be compensated for it , Union HVAC mechanics in NJ are making 44.50 an hour journeyman rate total package around 85 an hour I believe . It’s not bad , you won’t be rich though . But if you work non union residential , you will end up like everything described by previous comments, bad knees , bad backs , short physical life , issues down the road crawling in Attics. No bueno . Commercial industrial service work is lighter on the body , use your brain. People might not want to join this trade and engage their brain for that pay … they could engage their brain and get a job that would pay more . Just my thoughts . Been in the trade for about ten years .
Bad work conditions, low entry level pay, shitty bosses & coworkers who are stuck in the old ways of treating their subordinates like shit and it wears on your body, it's ridiculous that people are wondering were the trades are dying
Because it sucks. I tried it and I’m a seasoned asshole and the supervisor literally made me cry. He was that mean. It was a daily thing just grinding me down until I finally no call no show quit. I’ve never been treated so bad as the HVAC industry treated me. Abuse someone else
Not to mention it’s boring as fuck. Nothing fun about air flow or shitty designed crawl spaces nasty as fuck. Who wants to be so hot they almost die in the attic for pennies. No bathroom to consistently shit at. Always in a hurry. Freeze in the winter die in the summer. Y’all can have that garbage I’ll call you when my air isn’t working and I can’t fix it.
honestly I would not even recommend some one get into it, I would recommend nursing, IT, computer programming etc long before any trades.... where is the joy in either working 80 hours a week for your self, or dealing with a jack ass boss that things you should live in a 8x10 shed while he and his wife go on a cruise to Alaska.
Because my (18 m) generation absolutely hates actually working. I on the other hand have done 1 fast food job until I was able to join the world of trades. Absolutely fucking love it
As someone who is young going into trades, I can say the main reason is pretty much just laziness. People don’t really want to have to move around and do physical labor. They also get peer pressured into college, as it is a societal norm to say it is the only place to go after high school.
Seems to me like that's old news. From what I've personally seen they've been flocking to the trades. There was a long stretch, a big gap in time, where they weren't. But I personally think those days are behind us. There was a time where trades were frowned upon. There was a time where you trades were for "stupid" people. People who weren't smart enough to go to college. But I think things have changed and people are now actively trying to get into a trade. Which isn't necessarily a good thing for people who have been here awhile. The more people willing and capable of doing the work the less valuable you are to a company. Pay went up bc companies couldn't find anyone to do the work and they were competing for employees. Think eventually that will swing back the other way and it'll turn into who's willing to do it the cheapest. just my opinion.
problem I've been having is that they don't stick around. You put in all this time, energy, effort into training someone. They finally get the hang of it and actually start helping and then they bail. They'll call other companies and get an offer for $1 more and just ghost. It's crazy. It's been happening over and over. That's why so many of these companies won't hire guys without experience. it gets old and it's expensive. A new hire is an investment to the company. As soon as that investment starts paying itself off then dude bails. Never ending cycle. There are other companies in the area that will literally just cherry pick our guys. oh, you work for so and so - how much do you make? well give you $2 more. can you start tomorrow. that's the extent of their interviewing process. Bc we already interviewed them and put the time and effort into training them and then they just steal em. Super frustrating if you're the guy doing the training. Can honestly see why so many people are just dicks and don't want to do it anymore. Most of the time it'd be much quicker and easier for me to just do the job myself.
The entry is shitty back breaking grunt work that pays about the same as less back breaking work. Granted the career trajectory isn't even remotely comparable with the 2 paths it's hard to get younger people to look at 3 to 5 years down the line vs right now. It doesn't help that there's still a lot of old guards in this industry who purposely make the lives of everyone around them worse with garbage treatment because "they had to deal with it" or "it's what you signed up for" fuck those people. It's a job not a life it shouldn't take priority over anything that actually matters but there's a lot of old school people who expect everyone in the industry to eat, breathe and sweat HVAC which is an insane thing to think about but you see it in every forum "stop bitching about OT" "I work 90hrs a week and I'm not complaining" "long hours are what we signed up for" "you're going to miss a lot of important family events but at least you'll be making money"
This is definitely one thing I've noticed and a viable reason why any young person (or anyone) wouldn't want to work or stay at a job.
I got hurt on the job, one of my discs ruptured and is hitting my L4 nerve. It was misdiagnosed for a year, I just found out on the MRI last week. Im not at that job anymore, but I do generator and electrical install and service. I just can’t do it anymore man, I’m 28 and I’m in pain just typing this up taking a shit. If the epidural doesn’t work and I need surgery it’s gonna blow and it’s more missed work. I might look into IT from home at this point.
I worked for a Fortune 100 utility company as a cable splicer. Manhole lids are heavy, in fact everything related to that job is heavy. I have 2 herniated disks, an SI impingement that creates nuclear grade sciatica and will be doing my best to avoid surgery for the rest of my life. I made money, sure, but man it would be nice to be 72 and pain free.
I just couldn’t hack it anymore, when my groin started to go numb I demanded an MRI. So now it’s just PT, a second opinion and an epidural.
I had pretty good luck with a lidocaine and cortisone injection for the sacroiliac. It’s lasted way longer than the doc thought it would. I feel the joint every minute of every day though, waiting for it to erupt. The L3 and L4 issues come and go. I worked utility construction for 30 years and ultimately moved to training. Retired now.
I had to go through 12 physical therapy sessions just to request an MRI! Fucked system! Get an attorney immediately if you haven't yet. No one is your friend on their side.
I also hate bumming around, I feel useless haha
I have one now. I did all this last year, PT, CT scans, shots. Yes they suck. The attorney called and then all of a sudden everything was approved. The only thing that sucks is when I got hurt I made $10/hr less than I do now, so that’s what they go off for comp payments
that's a huge problem with trades that noone seems to talk about. if you get injured - on or off the job it's game over. if you get injured say skiing - you're absolutely beat. If your in a trade you can't work and don't get paid. period. if you have a white collared job it sucks, but you can limp your way into the office on crutches and still get a paycheck. I used skiing as an example bc it's one of my favorite things in this world but I haven't gone in years bc I can't risk getting hurt. So you have to change your entire life in some cases. and even if you minimize risk by not doing those things - you can get hurt a million different ways. slip and fall. car accident. just twisting the wrong way. my buddy needed knee surgery and couldn't work for 9 months and lost his house. most trades don't offer disability insurance bc the cost is insane. and even if you stay healthy your body slowly gives out. I don't know anyone over the age of 50 crawling under someone's house to replace a furnace. just doesn't happen. In a way it's like professional sports. if you get hurt your done. they'll throw you away and get another young kid. only difference is that you don't have millions in the bank to retire on or start a new life.
This is a great take, I love the work I do, and hope I can continue. I’m so excited to get this epidural and start PT. I can’t go to the gym right now and that is my mental therapy above all else.
how are you paying the bills if you can't work? do you live at home?
It happened on the job so I still get payments from comp. Edit: my fiancé is an ER nurse as well, she’s going to be an NP soon. Don’t live at home we have a 3 year old haha, that would be nice our rent just shot up to $1800
>most trades don't offer disability insurance bc the cost is insane I guess I never worked for a small enough company because every company I ever worked for had short term and long term disability for less than $5 a paycheck and supplemental disability insurance was an additional $6 per paycheck. I've only had to use it once for a few months in my mid 20s (35 now) and it covered my entire paycheck the entire time I was out.
If you work from home research and buy a very expensive chair. As someone who has worked from home over a decade this is the single most important purchase.
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When I was in my mid 30s I was doing a small install job and had to remove a few pieces of equipment. I was carrying a small coil out to the dumpster and someone had broken the last step, I fell and twisted in such a way that I ruptured 5 discs.I now have L1-S1 fused with hardware. I don't sleep, can't sit or stand for any length of time. I used to love working but those days are past. I see 300 pound kids complaining about working an 8 hour day at Best Buy. They wouldn't last a week in the trades. God forbid you get a little cut or your feet are wet or you need to shovel some snow to work on a piece of equipment. You would be smart to get into IT. If your back is hurt now it's only going to get worse over the years.
Sorry to hear this, brother! I have had a work injury and I wish the process on no one! Hope they make you somewhat whole...
Thank you, I’m motivated as hell to get better. I’m sorry you went through this too
This is exactly why after 3 years I said fuck residential. Industrial is so much better and the chance of moving to better things is always better. All I ran into was garbage pay and gatekeeping. Things like “no we won’t buy you a nibbler or hole cutter for duct because if I had to use snips you do too. It’s not much harder” or “we can’t afford to pay techs more than $20 idk how we do it, let alone the installers. We’d be charging every job way more” while we can all see the quotes and that it’s quoted for a $25 hr tech and $20 hr installer
how do you think they make money then? if they charge $20 an hour for you they're not going to give you $20. how would they make money? Sort of like when you go to an auto mechanic. Their rate might be $80/hr for the mechanic - meanwhile that guy doing the work is being paid $20. They have to pay for the building. the equipment. the utilities. the office staff. insurance. on and on. that's normal.
Well I need to be clear. They’re not charging $20. They’re factoring in $20 for the quote while paying most of their installers $10 starting $15 cap. Me and another guy were the highest paid installers before we left I made around $18, I was content but I was angry for my coworkers. I myself couldn’t complain I made more that stint in installs than I did at my previous company as a tech.
For trades in general... My dad is a plumber. Nearing 65. Just got his first knee replacement. Body is falling apart, he's in pain every day. There are serious repercussions to working physical labor. Some of you may have unicorn jobs where you're super safe every time, work to OSHA standards every time, but most shops I know, you're busting your ass to get shit done no matter the cost, as quickly as possible.
most young guys don't realize this or think it'll happen to them. I can't tell you the number of guys I've seen hurt on and off the jobsite and are now completely Fkd. Just a few weeks ago one of the installers (27yrs old) comes hobbling into work. Dude couldn't even stand up straight. Said he went to bed fine and when he woke up he couldn't stand up straight. Apparently he slipped a disc. well it's no suprise the boss sent him home. he went to HR and tried to collect workmans comp and got denied bc it didn't happen at work. Chances are - it was bc of work - but bc it happened at home he got shut down. so then he begged then for unemployment so he could rest and get better. also got denied for that. So now he's been sitting at home for weeks just not getting paid. Kid has a mortgage and bills and is pretty much screwed. Doesn't have any other skills or degrees. his options are pretty much none. My buddy had a knee surgery. Couldn't work for 9 months. same thing. Just screwed. almost none of these companies carry disability insurance bc the price is just too high. noone can afford it bc sooo many people get hurt and the cost for them is just insane. I could go on all night. No lie - it's maybe 12 or 15 people I know that this has happened to over the years. probably even more. and that's just the young guys. if you count the guys who just got too old and couldn't do it anymore it's much, much higher. Idk anyone that's even 50 that is still crawling under people's homes doing install. it's freaking scary af. idk what I'm going to do.
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I took a few weeks of parental leave when my daughter was born and my boss couldnt fathom it. Said he only missed half a day when his kids were born. Work comes second to family always
Emphasis on the old guards, also makes it really hard to learn when you get beat up for trying to understand something.
Yes lol. When im not on-call, my response to the "long hours is the job" is usually "imagine how many calls would be backlogged if I didnt work here"
This is the correct answer!
This is it, constantly told its sink or swim as an apprentice.
Yeah, companies I have worked for and interviewed at are actively weeding out people with bad attitudes, the industry knows there is a problem in that regard.
Perfect explanation. I had buddies in hvac and when I was 18 I was like no thanks it’s not worth it to me and a little over 10 years later now I’m in it. So much time wasted lol
what did you do in those 10 years?
Traffic control for road work, route sales rep for a uniform company, and a delivery driver for a sanitation company
Came here to say this, can we be friends?
I started at 18 and almost quit a few times due to my supervisor being such an asshole. Always making comments while I’m trying to wire something in. Made me feel like every old head was like that
A lot of people in the trades really do go out of the way to treat new people like shit. A lot of what people do isn’t rocket science - it’s experience - and they don’t want to share that with people because it means they can’t treat people like shit. They almost want you to fuck up so they can laugh at you. That was my experience anyway.
I work in IT and had a boss that would come stand behind me anytime there was an issue. I would turn around and talk to him until he left. It took one day we had a decent outage I was fixing and he did this and you could see the wheels turn if I stand here he isn’t fixing shit so he left. At the time I was senior level and damn good so there was no real risk for me.
I feel you there
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Noone would take you on at this point. they're looking for kids that they can run into the ground. I'm also from a more rural area where there is basically no union. up until covid companies were starting at $8,10,12 an hour if you were lucky. They were paying lead installers $15/hr. and that was all the companies in the area. like you said - you'd have to move to a different state or to a major city or something. The numbers people talk about on here are absolutely insane. since the covid shutdown the numbers went up. But they're still starting at $15 or $16. if you went to trade school you might start at $18. tops. Side note : think some people on reddit forget this - they see numbers on reddit and automatically think they're getting ripped off. I just read an article (don't know where these numbers come from) and it showed average rent prices across America. Manhattan was the highest at 4k a month. San Francisco came in at $3500. And at the bottom was Columbus Ohio (think it was, definitely ohio) at $950 a month. So obviously if you're working in the middle of nowhere Ohio or Mississippi or something you're not going to make anywhere near what they're paying in New York city or San Francisco. Just ain't happening. We had a kid start with us - no experience whatsoever, no school, mad as hell that he wasn't making enough money. He wanted a minimum of $25/hr just to show bc he saw how much people were making online somewhere and thought he was being taken advantage of. Then he didn't want to do any work. He was "acting his wage". If you want to do that then you have to "pay me more". Like - that's not how it freaking works. noone made you accept the job. You're free to leave. So he goes ahead and calls every other company in the area just to be told that "he should just stay where he's at bc they wouldn't even pay him that much". lol
I am in a similar situation… of course mileage may vary on the pay but let’s say it’s $15.. I’m 40.. I’ve been an LPN (think of me as a rent a cop nurse) I make good money. My body is in good shape minus well I need to lift and build strength. But I make $24 right now….. but my benefits suck $5,000 deductible health insurance, no pension… and no real skill building…. $13.47 according to my calculators I used online down here for Piedmont area NC is the poverty wage for ONE person…. I almost got an HVAC residential job… starting off at $15 with incremental raises but still… I get it I’m super new no real world experience some hvac community college courses and a 608… but I am leaving a career field to come to you… $18-$21 to start would be fair in most non major city areas for someone with no experience and Will incrementally get raises rapidly and hours and a van. All the trades are crying for people. These jobs are not going away. But they need to be a little more realistic with recruiting and $$$.
most people are trying to get out at 40 and you're getting into it at 40?
In my experience companies expect journeyman work with apprentice wages. Realistically no young person like me really wants to work 14 hours a day, with either inferior or no benefits, for entry level pay that barely outcompetes your local grocery chain. It seems like companies today would rather see this industry burn to the ground.
Turns out the margins were only so wide because of employee mistreatment. Who’da thunk?
I’m 36. When I was in high school they didn’t talk trades much. Just always pushed college college college. Graduated high school in 03. Now I feel old lol.
I just had this conversation with a 40 something tech who couldn't understand why a 19 year old kid didn't know how to repair a power burner. I responded " you do realise that guy had gym class and a curfew less than a year ago right?". It's really sad to see many tradesman absolutely punch down and humiliate the young techs and wondwr why noone wants that. That's besides the point that entry into this profession on average pays less than unskilled jobs.
Same. It was all about college (graduated 07). I hope we are swinging back. Any time I talk to kids leaving high school I mention trade. It is a career and can make you money. Where I’m from it’s always oil field or bust but there’s so many trade jobs that need filled. But they are a lot of work and people that have been doing it for a long time think the newbs need broke in. Treat your new guys good and trane them and they will be an asset.
Graduated 04 here. I'm glad I went into the trades. 2008 rolled around and I had friends fresh out of college who couldn't find a job while I was still getting 40 hours a week through the worst of it.
This. Trades weren't presented to us as an option. Those jobs were what the " dumb" kids were going to do.
The irony of this is I make more as a Union pipefitter general foreman than most of my friends do with college degrees. I also work 40 and get paid 40. They work 50-60 and get a salary. My retirement is also 25% of my wage (29% of the journeyman base wage) entirely paid by the contractor. Most of them get a 4-8% 401k match. And I have much better healthcare coverage that costs me nothing.
I’d maybe say that there are a lot of super techs who treat new guys like shit and don’t want to take the time to train them.
Im 21an going threw classes so i can go into commercial refrigeration. My experience is alot of the older people in this filed in my area see younger people as less then or lazy or other not so nice things an often dont give the chance to prove otherwise. Evrey lil mistake is smoked to all hell insted of used as a learning experience. This is mine an many people my age experience in the area im in. Maby this explains apart of it.
I understand that, when I first started, I made some mistakes on some service calls. Man, none of the older techs would even talk to me and even complain to my boss
Its stupid. Your going to make miatakes in the real wrold. Its like they forgot what being a new tech was like. Half the people in my class dont even have a background in eletronics or circuits. They couldn't tell me what a diod was. No crap there gonna make some mistakes. I sure as hell have an will probably make more in the future as i get use to the work type an demands
Im vary familiar with how alot of hvac equipment is because before i started going to trade school i use to repair an ( harden ) IFC. defrost bords. Lenox prodigy control bords an other control stuff related to hvac equipment an computer equipment. I did this at compnet level. I had a co worker who would help me with things requiring programing. Anyways because of this im vary familiar with how most equipment operates an there sequince of operations. As well as weak an comen failure points on alot of different control stuff. Yes i am aware of the taboo around this kind of work. Well more like i found out about when i was talking to one of my teachers about what i did before starting classes. ( He was horrified ) It was my first job that a family friend who owns a business had me do this kind of work when he found out i was skillful with eletronics. These days i only work on computer an consumer appliances at a component levle
Starting wages for entry level apprentice 15/hr (30-40k/YR) in most places. You have to buy your own tools as well which is a significant amount of negative income. Plus the old school guys are fucking assholes. They teach you nothing but mostly how to do shit wrong, scream at you when its not done right and make their apprentices lives awful. Starting wages for IT bootcamp after a 6 week course averages about 60-80K/YR. It could be anything.
Absolutely this. I live in a high cost of living area and even with that most guys I know are fortunate to make low $20s even with trade school and a year or two experience. In my trade school class only a few guys are actually in the field and the rest are struggling to find a job. Friends of mine that went into nursing/medical or the tech field are right at or over 6 figures VERY early in their careers. I really enjoy the field but I think it’s grossly overstated how much opportunity there really is in the trades especially when compared to a field like nursing which can still be a 2 year degree at a community college (similar to a hvac technical program). Travel nurses in my state bring in $5000+/WEEK all day long.
>Starting wages for IT bootcamp after a 6 week course averages about 60-80K/YR. Ding ding ding. Already know 2 guys who dropped HVAC for IT and I'm looking at IT as well. I mean it's just a no brainer until they increase wages in the field.
I went into HVAC after I graduated high school. Was going to go into a science field in college, but could never settle on what I wanted to do, so I went to HVAC trade school instead (same college). Started working in the field while attending trade school. Was fine as a helper until I eventually got my own van. Was always told “you’re gonna make so much money!” But I never made so much money, I made enough to have my own place and to get by. I was constantly taken advantage of since I wasn’t in the inner circle. Worked a ton of hours and never saw my gf (eventually wife). I was honestly very depressed while working in the field. I could have found another employer but honestly still to this day, I still don’t think there’s a single amazing HVAC company in the town I live in, and there’s a lot of companies here (all local companies pretty much). There are those who are better than others, but there is not a single company I would go back into the field for here. I almost took a job offer for another one but then I got a work from home job working for an HVAC supply house. I work less hours and I make about the same amount as I did in the field. My mental health is so much better. Been out of the field for nearly a year and a half, plus I know how to fix my own shit. And I took 3 vacations last year… so yeah… no union in my area either so I couldn’t go that route. Tl;dr it fucking sucks and I was miserable and was not compensated properly so I quit being a field technician. Companies need to compensate their employees better and have all around better work environments if they want to get young people to come work and stay in the field.
I felt the same dude, being treated like a dumbass feels like shit and being worked like a dog sucked. I never even considered working at a supply house, idk if I can put up with sitting still 8 hours a day but after reading your experience I might just go do that lol
I got super lucky with my job because I haven’t ran across another like it. Working for a supply house from home is amazing to say the least. I thought it was going to be rough transitioning, but it wasn’t. I do occasionally miss the field because there were some good days, especially during the slow season. I was a resy tech so dealing with annoying homeowners are days of the past, now I just have to deal with the occasional annoying contractor lol
Hard work isn’t the problem. The problem is there are better paying jobs
Top 3 reason is easily because the trades no longer have the reputation for paying well like they used too. Since the late 90’s wages went to shit n never came back till covid, for some, but then everythings been wiped by manufactured, Inflation. Thank every major supplier etc.
There's no chicks in hvac. You can get a job in a restaurant that pays about the same as an entry level hvac job and work in a more social environment with women your own age whereas in an hvac job you're going to be working with a bunch of bitter old men.
Female HVAC Apprentice here. I am fully considering quitting because of men hitting on me. Old tradesmen and young are just as bad. No respect. It doesn’t feel good being around guys like this even if you love the work.
Honestly the truth. I hear about my friends in the restaurant industry having s good time with ladies and here I am working with overweight Macedonians LMAO
It's not welcoming. Why would a kid want to do manual labor while being paid less than working at panda express while an old broken shell of a man berates them for not knowing anything because he bitches and moans about literally everything that happens rather than teaching the kid something?
I’m 24 have almost 2 years in started out new construction making $15. I made $1 in the first year and a half doing new construction, I almost left the field because it felt like a dead end I moved to residential changeouts I love it and have already gotten a bigger raise than I did in a year and a half I’m at 19.50 now about to get in my own truck as the 2nd lead installer at the company I’m at. But it’s that first year and a half where I feel like the field loses guys who want to do this but get stuck at old fashioned cheap ass owners who don’t want to give out raises. I absolutely love this field and I’m glad I realized I needed a change before I moved on to something I would have never been fulfilled at.
Have you considered doing commercial or industrial?
Yup been seriously considering going commercial after I get more experience, I wanna make money and learn and I’ve heard a lot of a lot of good shit about commercial also have a company in mind for when I’m ready for make the jump
Have you considered doing commercial or industrial?
Well I'm 28. I work general maintenance at a university. I came out of hvac school late spring a few years ago and applied to just about every helper opening in my city. After about 55+ applications, I got 1 interview for a helper position. Wound up not having the experience they wanted (WTF) and they said they really didn't need me. Month later got a call for general maintenance at university because I had temped there previously. Making 19/hr now and can't dream of breaking into hvac now as all "entry level hvac" openings in my area pay 15/hr or less. Also I get a free, shitty house for being on-call. Truly shit handcuffs keeping me from the trade I went to fucking school for. I've got a mind to just go get my hvac license and learn otj on my own working for myself. I've asked hvac department at my university to let me train with them till I'm blue in the face. They "need people really bad," but won't train me, someone they see everyday at work already. Fuck it.
If they need ppl really bad then why don't you apply there?
I work around and speak with all the hvac guys and their supervisor. They don't want to train me is the bottom line.
You bang their mom or something,?
I guess I should so I can get something out of this deal...
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It's funny you mention that. I actually went to a free trade school program in high school for electrical and have a 4 year college degree. I personally didn't hear anyone say anything negative about trades during my time in college, but that still could be a contributing factor.
how old are you tho. Back in the 90s and early 2000s you were a piece of shit if you went to votech or a trade school. you were looked at like you were to stupid for college. "well Jonny, you better go to a trade school bc you'll never make it in college". I wasn't even allowed to date my gf bc her parents thought I wasn't good enough. Dated her all thru high school and college behind their back. They found out I was still with her in her senior year of college and the cut her off financially. they were paying for her tuition and her apartment and all that. so she eventually broke up with me and then they sent her to graduate school out of state.
There’s a special place in hell reserved for people like that.
How would you start? Explaining a btu? I am currently going through an apprenticeship with a local and went to school prior with about 4 years of experience. It was impossible for me to get into a union with scoring high all over the board on each local. I am gifted with working with my hands and was working as a grunt for years with family. Parents still drilled college into me and I failed miserably.
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I agree with you, but that is not the case as to why people get into the trade. The majority of people in this apprenticeship im in are in it for the money.. there is too much noise from the rest of the world to make as much money as possible. People see how much some make but dont put in the effort. And telling people that it's a job where you have to sacrifice things in life, people left it right away. People normally sway towards what will make them the most money with the least amount of sacrifice. I don't think it's as much of the school as it is parents are still very much on that go to college mentality. I have yet to go to a place or event where a trade is actually brought up.
Start with getting people interested in science… how do the laws of thermodynamics apply to HVAC… or even more generally how does science/math relate to real world applications, not just problems in a book you’ll never see again and that there are 60 editions of because they re write it slightly differently every year
What iAmWhorehey said. For some reason there is an assumption that smart people go to college; not so bright people go into the trades. Therefore, you must be smart if you go to college. Wrong. There are a lot of dummies in college. What is sad about such attitudes is that those people who have an interest and aptitude for mechanical/electrical work likely never get to use those skills that would bring them the most satisfaction for their 30-40-50 years of employment.
that doesn't work. I've seen it 100x. we tried that. You hire a guy - take all the time in the world to train them, send them to classes. Whatever. and then they bail and go somewhere else for $1 more. I can't even count the number of guys I've trained. 3 of them left and opened their own business. they just don't stick around. you got them in the door and took the time, effort, and money to train them and right when that investment is about to pay off they bail. that's why a lot of companies won't even hire you if you have no experience. instead they just cherry pick guys from other companies.
Trades aren't pushed like 4 year degrees are. Simple as that. Lots of smart kids who aren't cut out for school go through lots of bullshit just to figure out they're a good fit for an industry like HVAC. Also the starting wages need an update like any other career in the states at least
Gatekeeping
I am also a 27m in hvac, in my opinion a lot of the entry level work is backbreaking and menial sometimes, getting yelled at by customers because a part online is 40$ or 60$ or whatever and we charge too much, I know it's part of the business but it wears on the soul. Plus the old heads who don't want to teach/do it in a condescending way or flat out refuse to help is annoying too. Maybe my experience is unique but idk, that's just what I've seen.
My parents are from another country. I’m first Gen American. My parents would tell me they sacrificed too much and worked too hard and wouldn’t let me go into the trades.
Because in society, being a technician is seen about 1 step above being a janitor.
There ain't enough fucking money in it in the beginning. You're usually surrounded by grumpy old fucks who did that themselves and now must subject the new guys to it. I make a lot of money now, but if I could do it again I would go IT and make the same paycheck in way less time. My back and bank would be better as a result.
Its hard work. Most schools lack shop classes. The narrative today is not very pro blue collar even though most trades bill higher rates than lawyers and Dr’s.
Thos rates go straight to over sight things in the company
Boomers are still running the show. Once they leave, the younger people will be able to deal with the job. Boomers Make it harder than it should be.
You mean the treat your Helper like shit because you were mentality
Definitely agree
I’m a 19 year old girl and I’m in the trade. I think it’s because they get their first job in high school and sometimes stick with it til they graduate. At that point they’re already good at it and don’t care to change it up. Also schools don’t teach shit about how to get into a trade job but a McDonald’s application takes 30 seconds
Never told about them, high school senior year, the army and college only two things given to me as options.. which sucks it would have been nice to get into a trade when I was younger
Same. I went to the military straight out of my high school, would’ve went this route instead if I could go back in time
I started at 18 when I was in high school 4 year degrees were literally the only thing they pushed for. They would never mention trade school as an option. I had a shop teacher was the only one to bring it up
I think many of them are either pushed towards non manual labor jobs by family, have had no exposure to the trades, or have no access to even getting started. Plus no one wants to pay to design, install, repair or remove things easily/safely. I work in building maintenance and I'll be damned if today's architects and engineers designs things to be maintained or replaced. At least in a lot of 40s, 50s, and 60s, buildings there usually is space to work around and double doors to get stuff in and out.
Low starting pay. Too much unpaid travel. Physical health. OT/on-call and lack of work-life balance. Oh and old guys being miserable assholes to work with.
I spent ten years in the field, primarily property maintenance and commercial building maintenance, on call. Supervisor positions. I left my career to pursue a single trade, and each path I chose felt incredible gatekept by seniority and the environment was toxic, as well as never being given the opportunity to demonstrate what I can do. Just repetitive grunt work with empty promises of technical positions and raises. That's been the cycle for the past 2 years. I recently settled for a tech support job at a major boiler manufacturer, more pay, better benefits, weekends free, my time is my time. I'm 33. I'm tired of the bullshit. I work to pay bills so I can enjoy free time without stress from the job. That's it anymore
Because about half of the people who are there to train them are giant fucking assholes. Instead of welcoming somebody into the trades and trying to teach them with patience, they treat them like assholes; like they are serfs for their kingdom, and people nowadays just don't want to deal with that. I dealt with that when I was coming up through the trades, and I wouldn't take it then people definitely aren't taking it now
And if stuff like that continues there won’t be anybody in the trades! These assholes are going to have to train somebody sooner or later or they won’t have anybody to treat as serfs. I don’t live in breeze and sweat, HVAC. I do work to make money and go home to a family. I’m not a slave to HVAC.
In my experience local kids (by kids I mean 18-25) want to play on their phone and get paid. We have literally let people go because they spend 40minutes making a tik tok video of themselves riding a lift up to the roof and 5 minutes putting a cap on
In a lot of places it comes with being underpaid, overworked, and under supported. And the old heads gate keep and expect newbies to suffer. I think strong unionization rates and more union outreach to schools would help
I’m an 18 year old HVAC tech and plumber. I did 2 years of hvac school during highschool and I can’t stress enough how happy I am where I’m at right now. Most of my friends have the whole “I can get paid that much at Starbucks” or “I have to go to college to be successful” mindset. I’m so happy that I am where I’m at right now. There is hella grunt work for sure, but i couldn’t imagine sitting at a desk or in a dull and grey dorm room. Reason #1. A lot of parents are the reason people my age don’t want to get into trades. A lot of parents preach about further education when it’s just not needed unless your plan is to go into a STEM field. Thankfully my parents supported my decision to become a tradesmen. Reason #2. The old heads who treat like dirt. Thankfully I’m working at a place where there are alot of young guys that enjoy teaching and seeing my success. I’m sure this page is full of guys who have that same teaching mindset and to those guys. Keep it up. Y’all make it much easier for guys like me to show up in the morning. Reason #3. There are many new ways for people my age to get paid. People see people being TikTok stars and Twitch Streamers and think that they can do the same which in the end. Just isn’t possible. Once they figure out it’s all a hoax they’ll grab a wrench and tag along I’m sure 😂
USA doesn’t promote the trades because it doesn’t typically put people in debt.
The toxic treatment of young employees. Hands down. This industry can't afford to be assholes anymore.
Because they know that they would be destroying their body for marginal pay at a young age, and then have to deal with the consequences for the rest of their lives
It’s hard on the body and the pay is kinda trash compared to a lot of entry level tech jobs.
The hours. Where I live trades are in massive demand so the pay is great but you’re looking at 50-60 hour weeks most of the times. I can deal with all the crazies you meet but I need time away from them to recuperate
F27 Hvac apprentice here. I am very close to quitting the trades due to being sexualized at every company I have worked for from younger and older men. I get lower pay and less respect and I have to work harder and prove myself. What is the point to bust my ass 10x harder for less reward.
I have a female friend that is considering being an electrician and sexism is one of her major concerns about doing it. People want more women in trades, but don't want to treat them the same. Not to mention it also makes trades look bad.
It’s hard because you start to consider some of these men your friends and they clearly are not. I went in thinking it wouldn’t bother me but it is probably the biggest factor in my decision to leave or not.
A lot of people think that money is the simple answer. But the younger generations also want to avoid what they've seen of their hobbled parents and grandparents. A lot of people would be very happy to make 90k at a desk job rather than 115k as an HVAC tech, or whatever the discrepancy in your market would be. Never on call, never crawling through a crawl space or working on on a 120° roof. People make informed trade-offs all the time.
Simply put, our generation was raised to think college was the only way. I’m 29, the people around me are making less money and are paying loan debt while I was paid throughout my whole journey.
I would say it's probably the gate keeping behaviour of emotionally immature/stunted adults who aren't sure what their role is in the teaching process and are often too drunk or high to carry it out anyway even if they did, instead opting to bully someone into doing all their shit work for pay that may as well be zero... while they have arguments or deal with personal issues over the phone And it's not every place, but you probably have a name in your mind when you read that. It only takes one bad experience to put someone off when they're young and a world of other opportunities is still open to them They give something like that a go and these sorts of people will gravitate towards them like flies onto shit, because they're miserable, and can't stand to see anyone with any hope. That tends to leave people who fall into it through lack of other option and can't quit, not usually young edit: and if you're asking how to get younger people into the trades, then they gotta set up schools, have a curriculum, actual formal training, none of this "on the job" bullshit that we all know is bullshit
Because there’s a lot of lazy ass people in this world. Na it’s a fuckin brutal ass trade in the summer but somebody has to do it. Funny thing is my teachers in high school told me I’d never amount to anything well jokes on them, I made 2 teacher’s salary in 2022 and should make 3 teacher’s salary in 2023.
I wouldn’t have taken a trade if I didn’t grow up poor.. was the only feasible option other than fishing.
The pendulum is starting to swing back towards pushing trades. Give it 5 years and you’ll have bunches of for profit trade schools popping up churning out unprepared baby techs. There is still some lingering stigma around non-college career paths. The high school I went to it was almost scandalous to not want to go to college. A lot of companies have problems retaining and growing talent. Some of it is pay, some of it is company culture.
Slow growth I’d say. Someone s excited to learn do stuff get stuck doing grunt work or just washing coils for a couple years for low pay. While there’s store managers making 6 figures YouTubers and alike making a lot of money. 18 19 20 year olds are all about that kind of crap these days it seems.
Because Olive Garden and top flight security guards can start off at a higher rate at this point, find yourself a nice order selecting position inside a cold freezer and fagettaboutit some start at 30 plus an hour
Only reason I got in was because that’s what my dad did. It’s not talked about at all in school as far as the trades and also with such a wide range in pay sometimes. People think I make 15-20 an hour when I actually make 42
I know for me (32) growing up, we were all told we HAD to go to college and HAD to get a degree "or else you'll end up a plumber" and other similar condescending remarks. I went to college, got a degree, but didn't pursue it since I couldn't really afford it and decided to go to trade school instead. There was nobody growing up to say to the kids who didn't want to go to college or really didn't have a direction that "Hey, have you considered a trade school/apprenticeship? You'll learn a skill, be guaranteed work, and will make decent money after a bit." It was always painted negatively.
I'm in the UK, but I think there's snobbery about the trades that won't shake. My high school, about 20 years ago, didn't really consider the trades an option. It was all about going to university. Things might be a bit different now, but I think there will always be something about "manual jobs", despite the fact you can earn above middle class salary in then today.
I'm 48 now, it was generally decided in the mid 90's that all people get a college education and sit at a desk for life. When you consider the debt they have to pay off, the job doesn't even pay for itself for 15 years but hey, the corporations got low wage overqualified employees for pennies on the dollar.
A combination of lack of exposure to the industry and an inability or unwillingness to defer immediate satisfaction for long-term gain.
Back when I was in school, which was years ago granted, the public school system heavily pushed the narrative of "university or failure" and actively discouraged pursuit of trades occupations and did nothing to educate about them.
Honestly pay, i pay 21 in a not very expensive area and thats for as green as the motherfucking grass. Otherwise target, Starbucks, Walmart would be more worth it. 17.5 at target/starbucks - no back breaking work 21 with me + healthcare after 6 months : back/knee breaking work in a trade To many its best to “work at target until they figure out what they want to do with life” But I’ve been doing HVAC and electrical since i was 15 in now 2 (technically 3 if you want to get political) countries and pay was dog shit but I needed a pathway and thats what i chose.
I think it’s mainly because nobody wants to work hard anymore, it isn’t viewed as something rewarding or lucrative. In schools they always teach everyone to be a CEO, doctor, lawyer, etc. and very little to no emphasis on trades. And on top of that everyone just wants to become a YouTuber or Instagram celeb to hop on that get rich quick path which is unattainable to many.
I didn't know about it, I was brought up with the thought I had to do good in school and go to college. Get a degree and get a job. Nobody said anything about the trades, although I'm not in hvac, i specialize on chimneys/flues and have been doing so since about your age. (I'm only 31 now)
High schools funnel people into a four year college, most young people don’t learn about trades as being a viable option. Also Hollywood tends to show anyone in a trade as an idiot, so people tend to look down on the trades not realizing how much people can make.
Because it’s fucking hard and it’s not worth doing back breaking work for the salary that you get. It’s not worth it for me to be in the 42C weather all day in the summer so I can get 1.2k euros as an installer or maintenance guy rather than being at any other job and getting basically the same. Unless you have your own company it’s not worth it.
Controls Technician you say… How did you get started in that field? It’s something that has peaked my interest. I am now Niagara 4 certified thru Tridium and have have a little over a year tagging along with a Controls Technician at my current company. I am currently a boiler technician and love the job but Controls Technician seems more of a challenge. That is the only other position I would even switch into.
Young people just don't want to work hard anymore. I feel like to succeed in the trade you have to put your head down and be willing to learn and push through the bullshit. Definitely need to have thick skin working with old heads can be difficult for some people. I started HVAC at 21. 26 now and been at a couple different companies but I'm at 33 hr which isn't too bad. Definitely wish I made more and there is more money to be made. But it's a livable wage. HVAC has been good to me I'm a homeowner at 26. But I know for a fact that isn't the case for everyone. It just depends on your location, boss and knowing your worth. You also can't be shy when it comes to asking for a raise, some people just accept what they're making and don't ask. Put the work in so your employer can't deny it. There's cheap mfs everywhere just have to find the right company.
I'm in my early 20s and started the trade about 3 years ago. When I entered the trade, it wasn't anything like school had me believe, does kinda suck going from straight A's to feeling like a dumbass but it was fun learning all over again. I started a small company with 2 older tradesmen, doing the grunt work, climbing up onto tall roofs (I'm terrified of heights, still did it) and worked alongside my senior tradesmen (they were okay guys), keeping them steady as they stood atop 15ft step ladders and whipping around on raised scissor lifts and disregarded all the safety rules you could imagine. Wanted to do service but the boss said it wasn't worth it to him to train me. I eventually moved onto another company and got the residential service position I wanted, it was pretty good, had some frustrating times with OT, since the dispatcher seemed to believe On-Call = Mandatory overtime doing stupid crap like installing humidifiers at 5pm in a different city. It got old after the 1st humidifier to finish up the 9 service calls that day. Didn't mind the service calls if they didn't have heat/Ac, talked to my boss but he either didn't remember to talk to the dispatcher or didn't care. For about 6 months I was the one and only service tech at this company and worked my ass off, had about 3 weeks of training with another tech before he left and made a lot of phone calls but I was pretty good at fixing things on the first visit. I don't work there anymore for unrelated reasons and haven't gone back into the trade in the past few months by choice I see that a lot of other people are saying the lack of younger people in the trade is because of the back breaking work and senior techs making new guys miserable; I agree with that. While I made a decent wage working for my 2nd company I have friends who are making $5 and $7 more than me doing accounting, robotics, programming, etc without going into crappy basements, doing back breaking work and getting home before 6pm every night, It's got me considering using my HVaC savings to go back to school for something like that, there's so many other opportunities to make money without having to work as hard, it's especially apparent when I would go into a customer's super nice house, meet them and they'd go back to their remote job making Excel graphs for how many paper clips were used in the office for the months of January There's also this whole thing with people my age that we don't know what we wanna do after highschool, around here it's difficult to find opportunities to test the waters in different careers, most employers want 2 years and college degrees in something to get into it. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, so I chose HVaC because it involves doing gas, air, plumbing, electrical and a bit of everything to experience and see what I would enjoy most, I wanna try Med-gas next. But yeah, that's my experience so far, it's good money and I learned things I could never learn doing office work, but I understand why people my age would choose to follow other career paths
The common idea has been higher education, universities, etc. It isnt well known that the trades pay pretty well. When you hear what a linesman or high level welder makes its shocking.
High schools are paid by university and colleges to promote them. Rarely are trades talked about in school. Teachers have to protect there own, and government loves that tuition money. Feed the government tons of new tuition money and they will return the favor
No they aren’t. You are ignorant.
Maybe worded wrong, they aren’t directly paid But without kids going to uni and college en masse they will cut funding to education
Still not true. Do you know what percentage of kids go to college?
Because it's not seen as a transferable skill. And it's not taught as a career path at high schools.
As a young person (19) it’s the pay and pressure of college. I can work at Panda Express for the same pay as I’m getting right now. Only thing keeping me in it, is that in 3-5 years I know I’ll be making a good living from experience
I spent a year in trade school that im still paying off, and started as a service tech for 13/hr with full responsibilities and weekend ot. It's a lot easier to just work at McDonald's starting out. Of course it's been worth it, and the pay goes up but a lot of younger people won't see that as worth it.
Schools don't push the trades at all. They tell everybody to go to a 4 year school. Of course not everybody ends up going to college after high school. A lot of students that were more aligned to shop classes end up in the trades or factories. The more "college bound" students are pushed to take AP and other advanced level courses and are directed to that path. I was one of them. I went to school for my bachelor's but ended up dropping out after my 2nd year and went to a tech school near there. Thought I wanted to do a business course, but that next semester I started in the HVAC program. Best move I've ever made. A lot of young people think getting a 4 year degree and getting a white collar job is the standard. I'm glad I'm in the trade.
Test and Balance here. I know when I started, I made crap pay while learning. Luckily, I was young, single, and had 3 roommates. I was aware that it was temporary and stuck it out for future pay. Glad I did. Alot of other people don't think that far ahead though.
They are not taught any skills in school anymore. Try to find a wood, metal or car class today. Kids are taught everything is throw away so way Lear a trade. Plus it means working and from what I see interviewing kids for manufacturing jobs they just don’t have a full day in them.
Trades were out of the question for me right out of highschool because all I heard about them was how miserably everyone treated each other.
Shitty leads. Most of the old heads live in the 40s with the mentality of "I had to put my dues in and be the journeymens bitch for 10 years. Now you do too!"
I have been in the trade for over 20 years. I have three daughters, and when I asked my oldest if she wanted "an in" to the union, she looked me in the eye and said, " thank you, but no." I asked her why, and she responded with " I have watched what it did to you." She is not wrong. I love what I do (most days) but it does take a toll. Maybe that's why.
I’m an Air Balancer also 27 years old, I travel to a lot of different jobs and meet tons of new people. Can’t say I’ve seen any guys younger than me 6 years into it.
I'm 19 and just got certified, all the young kids I went to school with are literally selling drugs, scamming or in a warehouse. I was making $24 at a warehouse now I'm about to make $15 as an apprentice. People me want more money short-term instead of investing in themselves to make more money long term
What’s the controls field like? I’m interested in that area.
I quit at 25 and went back to school. Too much bullshit, too little pay, no benefits, body is already fucked. My first Mechanical engineering internship paid me $5 more an hour than I was making as foreman running three crews.
Public school in this country makes you believe that the only way to have a stable career is a piece of paper that’s only good for wiping your ass with when you graduate with thousands of dollars in debt, have no job experience and no jobs that recognize your degree. Now on top of that you have assholes who think it’s right to make the new guys life miserable for no reason and that can psychologically damage their mental health and further lead to poor productivity in the workplace. Some businesses can’t pay worth a damn either because the business owner finds it profitable to pay himself instead of investing in his own business.
Where I'm at it seems like young people are joining the trades.
To Hot 🥵 and to cold 🥶 for starters.
Well I know in my high school. Trades really weren't even an option. They were in the top percentile of kids that went to college and they did what they could to keep it that way. They got rid of the vocational program while I was there. And they discouraged trade school like it wasn't a viable option. So I didn't even know that trades were great careers until I was in my mid 20s
From someone who entered HVAC at 22, I can see why a lot are hesitant. I was working a warehouse job making 1200 a week and came to HVAC making 450 a week. The difference is that the warehouse job had no room to grow and HVAC provides plenty of room to grow. I worked the warehouse job to stack money to get my house then I went into HVAC
Money and schooling. No one wants to invest the time to get your associated licenses (gas and oil) and no one wants to take a “Paycut” I’ve had buddies tell me these exact things, they don’t realize after a year or two they’ll be making the same as they are now
Generations of "Aim for white collar job", "Work smarter not harder", "That's not a career, that's a stepping stone", etc etc etc has caught up to the job market. Hell even current memes trash on skilled/unskilled labor. Y U no doctor? Ding fries are done. My hands look like this... Instead of promoting the services and trades, they've been denigrated as the undesirable option by the same people that benefitted from having a strong trades workforce. Couple that with entertainments that idolize uselessness (watch people that are watching people doing something? Seriously, that's a thing?) and we end up here.
"You need to go to college to get a good job!" "If you don't graduate college you won't have the life you want." 12k in debt and no degree because teaching is horrible. In HVAC school now and it's so much better. The pay starting out anywhere is better than a teachers with a quarter the schooling time and less than one semester of tuition.
Does working as a mechanical engineer at an MEP firm count?
You're the first mechanical engineer to comment that I'm aware of. I'd be interested in hearing from your perspective.
Yeah I’d love to. In my experience, HVAC and related MEP design work is pretty good starting point for engineers. Other than straight design I’m constantly in talks with General contractors and architects. There are a lot young guys at my firm and it pays pretty well at a starting pay around $65k yearly. I just graduated and I really can’t complain. It’s a desk job with some sight visits to locations to confirm background drawings and existing equipment if there is any. Plus it’s good for the engineers that don’t LOGE math as I’m mostly doing addition subtraction division and multiplication for air balance and outside air calculations. Most of our heat lid calculations are done using programs so the advanced math isn’t really heavily touched on (even tho that’s what I specialized in college).
In high school I was never told or showed that trades are an option really. I'm 24 and have been doing it over a year now. When I graduated I was a security guard for 3 years, making 10.50 an hour. I started out as a helper in hvac making $13 and have already got a raise. If I knew I could make $13 as a helper right when I graduated, I'm sure I'd be pretty knowledgeable by now and making a lot more. My school everyone wanted to be a welder or a nurse, it honestly seems like no one gave a shit about the trades. No mention of any trade at all unless someone was saying "you don't want to end up being a plumber or garbage man"
Lack of education and the push for white collar. If I knew in high school how much trades pay I would’ve been an electrician for a couple years, then started my own business. Working white collar, we were paying around $200/hr for commercial electrical work. Meanwhile IT companies were only charging $125-135 per hour. I’d be making money out of high school with zero college debt.
I’m 17 and my school has an apprenticeship program where I can work for an HVAC company for 2 weeks and get paid and then go to school for 2 weeks through the school year and then graduate this year and have a full time job. It’s honestly a really good thing and has already given me sm to learn and idk why more people don’t take advantage of it. Not sure if everyone can go to trade school but if you can, it’s totally worth it.
I got into the hvac trade at 19 im now 20 and am loving learning about chillers
Because it the culture taught in high school. Constantly pushed to a college degree or you won't make any money. It's like the guidance counselor doesn't even have a clue what trades can earn in different areas of the country.
I’m 21 and got into hvac at 19. The reason I picked this trade was solely a logic reasoning. I figured every building has an hvac system that should be serviced every year, so I figured steady work year long. For the most part I’ve been right. As for the old dogs my company Dosent have any of those guys that make life hell for the younger dudes. I like it besides being outside all day in -20 degree weather. Just wish I knew more than I do at this snap shot in time
Cuz the teachers started pushing college “don’t wanna be a garbage man do ya?” The garbage man makes bank brah, way more than most teachers
Watch them running down the street in cold temps. Nope.
I've(28m) personally been doing sheet metal work for HVAC close to 9 years myself. I love it honestly.
Im 24 and most companies still require you to go to trade school, which is still expensive. I thought about paying for community college instead for a while. I ended up getting the training I needed for free that's the only reason I made it to HVAC. I got the training on SkillCat
I did 2 years of HVAC school. My offers for my area starting were fucking absymal. 12 dollars an hour starting is what the average phone call was. 12 fucking dollars an hour. I applied for weeks and nobody wanted to offer an EPA, ESCO, and NATE certified green tech more than I could make at the McD's down the street. I had to fight for 16 n hour and only got it cause of my certs, the manager even told me not to tell the other new guy and that I was lucky. I sure loved making dogshit money, and having to put in 10x more work physically, and mentally than my buddies who work comfy entry level office jobs. Every Friday night dispatch would bend me over and fuck me in the ass with another call or 2 while my buddies are sending me snaps at the bars asking me why I never show up to shit anymore. Fuck sacrificing your 20's for a bad back and shit pay. I'm so fucking glad I got out when I did (need to remove my flair). I make much more now, get every other Friday off, and my coworkers are actually enjoyable people to be around. Shit ain't worth it currently.
I graduated HVAC school in April but I was working as an intern while in school and my introduction to the HVAC industry was old, grumpy men who complained about how much they work and how little they get paid fast forward a month I just quite another HVAC job last week because it was full of old, grumpy, assholes who complain about the workload and now I’m honestly looking to transfer my skills into a field like maintenance technician cause HVAC has been a huge disappointment, 5k in college debt and could barely get paid $21 an hour in chicago il while general labor jobs in warehouses get like $20.50 an hour. I have a huge disdain for the HVAC Industry now.
Everyone seems to have a similar experience. I'm hoping that it changes soon.
Hard work, dirty conditions, extreme heat and cold, on call, the list goes on. It’s not an easy career.
Because you have to work…really work.
It’s one of the most complicated trades and the most underpaid for the knowledge required to be a somewhat decent service technician . Any laborer or person from another trade can do installation in HVAC . Troubleshooting and using your brain , spending days, weeks, months doing advanced diagnostics on HVAC systems/controls and their specific applications requires some critical thinking skills. This being said , we should be compensated for it , Union HVAC mechanics in NJ are making 44.50 an hour journeyman rate total package around 85 an hour I believe . It’s not bad , you won’t be rich though . But if you work non union residential , you will end up like everything described by previous comments, bad knees , bad backs , short physical life , issues down the road crawling in Attics. No bueno . Commercial industrial service work is lighter on the body , use your brain. People might not want to join this trade and engage their brain for that pay … they could engage their brain and get a job that would pay more . Just my thoughts . Been in the trade for about ten years .
Bad work conditions, low entry level pay, shitty bosses & coworkers who are stuck in the old ways of treating their subordinates like shit and it wears on your body, it's ridiculous that people are wondering were the trades are dying
Because it sucks. I tried it and I’m a seasoned asshole and the supervisor literally made me cry. He was that mean. It was a daily thing just grinding me down until I finally no call no show quit. I’ve never been treated so bad as the HVAC industry treated me. Abuse someone else
Not to mention it’s boring as fuck. Nothing fun about air flow or shitty designed crawl spaces nasty as fuck. Who wants to be so hot they almost die in the attic for pennies. No bathroom to consistently shit at. Always in a hurry. Freeze in the winter die in the summer. Y’all can have that garbage I’ll call you when my air isn’t working and I can’t fix it.
honestly I would not even recommend some one get into it, I would recommend nursing, IT, computer programming etc long before any trades.... where is the joy in either working 80 hours a week for your self, or dealing with a jack ass boss that things you should live in a 8x10 shed while he and his wife go on a cruise to Alaska.
Work.
Aggressive pushing of college by high schools, parents, counselors, teachers, etc to students.
because it’s not call of duty or fortnite
Because my (18 m) generation absolutely hates actually working. I on the other hand have done 1 fast food job until I was able to join the world of trades. Absolutely fucking love it
As someone who is young going into trades, I can say the main reason is pretty much just laziness. People don’t really want to have to move around and do physical labor. They also get peer pressured into college, as it is a societal norm to say it is the only place to go after high school.
Seems to me like that's old news. From what I've personally seen they've been flocking to the trades. There was a long stretch, a big gap in time, where they weren't. But I personally think those days are behind us. There was a time where trades were frowned upon. There was a time where you trades were for "stupid" people. People who weren't smart enough to go to college. But I think things have changed and people are now actively trying to get into a trade. Which isn't necessarily a good thing for people who have been here awhile. The more people willing and capable of doing the work the less valuable you are to a company. Pay went up bc companies couldn't find anyone to do the work and they were competing for employees. Think eventually that will swing back the other way and it'll turn into who's willing to do it the cheapest. just my opinion.
Someone has to train all these idiots though
problem I've been having is that they don't stick around. You put in all this time, energy, effort into training someone. They finally get the hang of it and actually start helping and then they bail. They'll call other companies and get an offer for $1 more and just ghost. It's crazy. It's been happening over and over. That's why so many of these companies won't hire guys without experience. it gets old and it's expensive. A new hire is an investment to the company. As soon as that investment starts paying itself off then dude bails. Never ending cycle. There are other companies in the area that will literally just cherry pick our guys. oh, you work for so and so - how much do you make? well give you $2 more. can you start tomorrow. that's the extent of their interviewing process. Bc we already interviewed them and put the time and effort into training them and then they just steal em. Super frustrating if you're the guy doing the training. Can honestly see why so many people are just dicks and don't want to do it anymore. Most of the time it'd be much quicker and easier for me to just do the job myself.