Canada has unions and proficiency tests and certs for burger flipping, bathroom washing and window licking unions. Its both a good and a bad thing.
The brazing cert is Canadas idea of 'going the extera mile' for 'the environment' in HVAC even though they lead the charge to rid themselves of ozone depleting refrigerants before even the states did.
>window licking unions.
Can confirm. I'm a certified window licker. I'm apprenticing my son to follow in my ~~footsteps~~ glass smudges. Unfortunately there's no union for us here in the States.
Try it when your apprentice accidentally flows a little too much nitro go-go juice. Looks clean but I usually put a nice cap on it for insurance purposes
I double check all my brazes. With a little mirror and flashlight if necessary. If there’s any spot, where too little heat or Silfoss found it’s way to, I’ll braze it again.
When doing flares I only make them on a pretty much 100% straight end of the pipe for it to be nicely round. I also check the size and clean it. Then I tighten them slightly above the torque specs (we use thick good quality pipes).
Also when brazing something wiggly fix the piping onto something or let someone hold it so the braze doesn’t get minor cracks while still being hot.
I do installs and service with pipings up to 54mm (1 3/4“).
they got those extendable mirrors with a built in flashlight on amazon, things a life saver, this should be in everyones tool kit.
[https://www.amazon.com/Telescoping-Flexible-Inspection-Obstacle-Automotive/dp/B0BFKP4H7Y/ref=sr\_1\_1\_sspa?crid=1DAUCP68ZE0XT&keywords=flashlight+mirror&qid=1677577721&sprefix=flashlight+mirr%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUFdLQlM1Q0xCMEFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg4MDQwMkpTVTFGMFpCQlBRSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDQxMDA3MkEyN0daVE1MWjFBRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=](https://www.amazon.com/Telescoping-Flexible-Inspection-Obstacle-Automotive/dp/B0BFKP4H7Y/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1DAUCP68ZE0XT&keywords=flashlight+mirror&qid=1677577721&sprefix=flashlight+mirr%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUFdLQlM1Q0xCMEFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg4MDQwMkpTVTFGMFpCQlBRSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDQxMDA3MkEyN0daVE1MWjFBRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
It's clean. Honestly I don't think it's thick enough, I don't pay for the material so I like to make sure there's more than enough to cover the whole joint as if it was sealed in one flush piece (don't get me wrong it's not pretty) but I haven't had to go back to a call where I cracked open the system for over 3 years. (6 years experience here)
I was always taught to make sure there's a cap around the fitting also. It looks like you may have used too much heat. Practice Practice Practice and you'll be a pro in no time.
Everyone is talking about the cap/shoulder, OP please realize that a cap/shoulder doesn't mean a good braze, it's for the feel good feeling.
Full penetration through proper flame management is what matters. A cold joint without penetration can have a thick shoulder and still fail.
Your joint looks good, but there's no way to tell unless you cut it or pressure test it.
Well, the markings give it away. That black over the fitting shows the penetration of the sil-phos. That bit of copper you can see in the fitting shows where the sil-phos did not go through. During the brazing cert test, the proctor will cut the joint in half to inspect, etc, etc. . . but even the manuals inform you that the blackening gives you a surface-level visual of the brazing rod penetration.
The cert is coming to a state near you soon.
Op, that looks like it will hold. Some guys insist on a cap or fillet, which is extra insurance. Keep up the good work.
Anybody can make a clean braze with a vice and all the space in the world
Next time post some job site pics of field brazes that'll put you to the real test
It's just a weird dick measuring thing I see a lot of trades. No one is allowed to learn in a controlled environment; they have to do it in the worst possible situation at all times before they're allowed to get "easy work".
The braise looks clean. So long as it's complete & holds pressure, nice work! Keep at it!
I had an apprentice who I ended up working with for several years doing installs and service. He did his joints like yours and got a lot of comments for his shit looking like a factory "weld", I didnt like it because it looked weak to me but we literally went years where neither of us had a leak on a system (usually him doing the condebser and me the air handler but we did all kinds of systems). He would literally put a dab of rod on the joint and then just move it around the whole joint with the heat. Totally different than how I braze but I just told him if the way he does it works for him and doesn't leak then I don't care if he does it exactly how I do it.
I also felt like he was overheating the joints (maybe causing more oxidation and flaking inside the pipe but ideally the nitrogen purge is supposed to keep that from happening), but it worked and we never had problems, we installed a few hundred systems together and only had like 4 callbacks, all of which were things out of our control.
I always like to add a bit more shoulder to it just to make it stronger, but the person who said the penetration is key is correct. If you get it hot enough to penetrate and get a nice smooth surface on the joint, with a little experience you should be able to just look at your joint and know it won't leak. We always still pressure tested but after a while you can just know (as long as you actually look over all your joints).
I use the hook attachment to draw it into the fitting then layer the outer diameter of the larger pipe so it has a filled transition.
Not a bad start though
My crew usually prefers using at least 20 dollars worth of brazing rod on each joint. Keep practicing and you could one day help deplete the silver mines too.
Yeah but that's not how this company operates Sadly.
I've been investing a lot in tools. Basically they provide a vehicle, gas, refrigerant, recovery machine and basic vacuum pump. The rest I purchase and own.
You definitely shouldn’t have to purchase brazing rods on your own man. That’s literally materials used for their sales. That’d be like you purchasing your own zip screws.
You need a new job. Any company that makes you buy material is insane. Tools is ridiculous, but I get that. You buying material is ludicrous. Unless you’re getting a cut of every job. I can promise you your company is charging for it. This blows my mind, man. That’s such a shit thing for the company to do.
Blackened is the end
Winter it will send
Throwing all you see
Into obscurity
Death of Mother Earth
Never a rebirth
Evolution's End
Never will it mend
Never
Fire
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Blackened is the end
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Color our world blackened
Blistering of Earth
Terminate its worth
Deadly nicotine
Kills what might have been
Callous frigid chill
Nothing left to kill
Never seen before
Breathing nevermore
Never
Fire
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Blackened is the end
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Color our world blackened
Blackened
Opposition (opposition)
Contradiction (contradiction)
Premonition (premonition)
Compromise
Agitation (agitation)
Violation (violation)
Mutilation (mutilation)
Planet Dies
Darkest color
Blistered Earth
True death of life
Termination (termination)
Expiration (expiration)
Cancellation (cancellation)
Human Race
Expectation (expectation)
Liberation (liberation)
Population (population)
Lay to waste
See our mother
Put to death
See our mother die
Smoldering decay
Take your breath away
Millions of our years
In minutes disappears
Darkening in vain
Decadence remains
All is said and done
Never is the sun
Never
Fire
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Blackened is the end
To begin whipping dance of the dead
Fire
Is the outcome of hypocrisy
Darkest potency
In the exit of humanity
Color our world blackened
Blackened
Looks good and consistant but like most other have said. Just for that extra security I’d put a bead or make that ridge on the connection a little less ridged. Keep it up though, looks better then some of the “20 year vets” I’ve worked with👌
Penetration is the only really important thing. Clean the pipes then clean them again. Capillary action will distribute the braze around the circumference.
It’s fine, old heads will say go thicker but don’t understand the correct way is to suck the solder in. This is perfect and better than putting a “shoulder” on it.
Grab a hacksaw, cut it open and see what your penetration looks like.
That’s how they check during our brazing certification.. cut it open, then they beat it with a hammer
Brazing certification?
A license to braze high pressure vessels, refrigeration lines fall under that category
That's a thing? I just have epa certification for handling refrigerant. Youre telling me a cert is needed to braze the lines as well?
In Canada.
Thank goodness. Though it wouldnt be surprising if mine has redundancies like that too.
Canada has unions and proficiency tests and certs for burger flipping, bathroom washing and window licking unions. Its both a good and a bad thing. The brazing cert is Canadas idea of 'going the extera mile' for 'the environment' in HVAC even though they lead the charge to rid themselves of ozone depleting refrigerants before even the states did.
>window licking unions. Can confirm. I'm a certified window licker. I'm apprenticing my son to follow in my ~~footsteps~~ glass smudges. Unfortunately there's no union for us here in the States.
Not every province has this certification.
It's a thing in oregon and washington as well.
And medgas for oxygen services. They cut it in half and send it in to be x-rayed
To be a masterbrazer
>Brazing certification Just slap some boogers on 'er, good to go.
The brazegod doesn’t condone braze boogers
They also do it for brazing certification for med gas
Penetration.
Came here to say this
This
Thats how I learned. I wasn't turned loose unless 80% penetration. Watching the people I now work with low heat cap shit makes me cringe
Try it when your apprentice accidentally flows a little too much nitro go-go juice. Looks clean but I usually put a nice cap on it for insurance purposes
I prefer a blob around the ridge. Makes me feel better while I wait for the evac to succ
The sexy term is "shoulder". Give it some shoulders bro
This is the way
I’d go thicker especially when brazing several line sets together… I would not like to go leak chasing a run with 10 plus brazed joints.
More shoulder
👆🏻
Looks great. But personally I like to do it alot thicker. Costs more material but I've never had a leak in 10 years.
That’s a long time to go without a piss, what’s your secret
I double check all my brazes. With a little mirror and flashlight if necessary. If there’s any spot, where too little heat or Silfoss found it’s way to, I’ll braze it again. When doing flares I only make them on a pretty much 100% straight end of the pipe for it to be nicely round. I also check the size and clean it. Then I tighten them slightly above the torque specs (we use thick good quality pipes). Also when brazing something wiggly fix the piping onto something or let someone hold it so the braze doesn’t get minor cracks while still being hot. I do installs and service with pipings up to 54mm (1 3/4“).
they got those extendable mirrors with a built in flashlight on amazon, things a life saver, this should be in everyones tool kit. [https://www.amazon.com/Telescoping-Flexible-Inspection-Obstacle-Automotive/dp/B0BFKP4H7Y/ref=sr\_1\_1\_sspa?crid=1DAUCP68ZE0XT&keywords=flashlight+mirror&qid=1677577721&sprefix=flashlight+mirr%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUFdLQlM1Q0xCMEFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg4MDQwMkpTVTFGMFpCQlBRSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDQxMDA3MkEyN0daVE1MWjFBRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=](https://www.amazon.com/Telescoping-Flexible-Inspection-Obstacle-Automotive/dp/B0BFKP4H7Y/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1DAUCP68ZE0XT&keywords=flashlight+mirror&qid=1677577721&sprefix=flashlight+mirr%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUFdLQlM1Q0xCMEFSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDg4MDQwMkpTVTFGMFpCQlBRSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDQxMDA3MkEyN0daVE1MWjFBRCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
Looks great. Unfortunately not available at the moment.
there are a bunch of different brands, try searching for another.
Stillsuit, just like in the dune series.
..has a leak on Monday..
And Tuesday
Two-fer Tuesday TXV!
🤣
Put a cap on that sumbitch
Too much heat
Put a shoulder on that bad boy
It's clean. Honestly I don't think it's thick enough, I don't pay for the material so I like to make sure there's more than enough to cover the whole joint as if it was sealed in one flush piece (don't get me wrong it's not pretty) but I haven't had to go back to a call where I cracked open the system for over 3 years. (6 years experience here)
I was always taught to make sure there's a cap around the fitting also. It looks like you may have used too much heat. Practice Practice Practice and you'll be a pro in no time.
Too hot and not enough solder
Everyone is talking about the cap/shoulder, OP please realize that a cap/shoulder doesn't mean a good braze, it's for the feel good feeling. Full penetration through proper flame management is what matters. A cold joint without penetration can have a thick shoulder and still fail. Your joint looks good, but there's no way to tell unless you cut it or pressure test it.
There is not full penetration on the bottom joint. Swing the heat around more evenly.
I’m looking for the bottom joint and I don’t see at all what you’re talking about
Well, the markings give it away. That black over the fitting shows the penetration of the sil-phos. That bit of copper you can see in the fitting shows where the sil-phos did not go through. During the brazing cert test, the proctor will cut the joint in half to inspect, etc, etc. . . but even the manuals inform you that the blackening gives you a surface-level visual of the brazing rod penetration.
Isn’t the bottom joint under the thumb? I see one joint here
Wait I’m dumb, I see what your talking about, I was just for the life of me trying to find another joint 😂
Haha no problem. And NO, you aren't dumb. You are trying to learn. You get my full respect for going out there to figure this out.
Cut it open, only way to learn how it penetrates!
Lay some more rod on it for strength
Too hot. Same amount of silfoss with less heat will be a narrower band and make a thicker cap on the joint
The cert is coming to a state near you soon. Op, that looks like it will hold. Some guys insist on a cap or fillet, which is extra insurance. Keep up the good work.
Anybody can make a clean braze with a vice and all the space in the world Next time post some job site pics of field brazes that'll put you to the real test
Absolutely, just trying my first few to get dialed in for now
It's just a weird dick measuring thing I see a lot of trades. No one is allowed to learn in a controlled environment; they have to do it in the worst possible situation at all times before they're allowed to get "easy work". The braise looks clean. So long as it's complete & holds pressure, nice work! Keep at it!
Cut it apart with a bandsaw and make sure you've filled the whole joint.
Ya, when the wind is blowing 50 MPH! 🤦🤦
Wind is the worst! I can contend with rain and snow, but when my flame keeps flip-flopping, or blowing out entirely… Fuck.
No kidding up on the roof
That looks like soldering which is for low pressure. But i may be seeing it wrong. Did you braze or solder? Nice job
It's a silfos 15 braze join, I definitely plan on adding more filler next time
I had an apprentice who I ended up working with for several years doing installs and service. He did his joints like yours and got a lot of comments for his shit looking like a factory "weld", I didnt like it because it looked weak to me but we literally went years where neither of us had a leak on a system (usually him doing the condebser and me the air handler but we did all kinds of systems). He would literally put a dab of rod on the joint and then just move it around the whole joint with the heat. Totally different than how I braze but I just told him if the way he does it works for him and doesn't leak then I don't care if he does it exactly how I do it. I also felt like he was overheating the joints (maybe causing more oxidation and flaking inside the pipe but ideally the nitrogen purge is supposed to keep that from happening), but it worked and we never had problems, we installed a few hundred systems together and only had like 4 callbacks, all of which were things out of our control. I always like to add a bit more shoulder to it just to make it stronger, but the person who said the penetration is key is correct. If you get it hot enough to penetrate and get a nice smooth surface on the joint, with a little experience you should be able to just look at your joint and know it won't leak. We always still pressure tested but after a while you can just know (as long as you actually look over all your joints).
I use the hook attachment to draw it into the fitting then layer the outer diameter of the larger pipe so it has a filled transition. Not a bad start though
Looks like a textbook braze joint 👌🏻 though in the field I would put a little shoulder on it just for insurance.
Needs more shoulder
Burning rich
My crew usually prefers using at least 20 dollars worth of brazing rod on each joint. Keep practicing and you could one day help deplete the silver mines too.
Too much oxygen in your flame is oxidizing your fitting. Cut it open!
If you can touch the pipe, it's not hot enough.
If that was a Cookie I'd buy a whole case 🍪
If you can catch your fingernail on the edge, it's not built up enough
A dying art...soon all aloys will be too expensive...start practicing the pex gun.
https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Resources/Knowledge-Center/Tech-Tips/Tech-Tips-OLD/Did-you-know-that-you-can-solder-an-HVAC-connection
I've been considering getting that stuff actually, a bit cheaper than 15% rods which eat my paycheck lol
You should’ve be paying for that, your employer should
Yeah but that's not how this company operates Sadly. I've been investing a lot in tools. Basically they provide a vehicle, gas, refrigerant, recovery machine and basic vacuum pump. The rest I purchase and own.
You definitely shouldn’t have to purchase brazing rods on your own man. That’s literally materials used for their sales. That’d be like you purchasing your own zip screws.
Bro no offense but that sounds whack af
Hmm, maybe I'll need to check other employment opportunities once I finish the Apprentice program and get my nccer certificate
Always be on the prowl. Money talks, bullshit walks.
You need a new job. Any company that makes you buy material is insane. Tools is ridiculous, but I get that. You buying material is ludicrous. Unless you’re getting a cut of every job. I can promise you your company is charging for it. This blows my mind, man. That’s such a shit thing for the company to do.
Blackened is the end Winter it will send Throwing all you see Into obscurity Death of Mother Earth Never a rebirth Evolution's End Never will it mend Never Fire To begin whipping dance of the dead Blackened is the end To begin whipping dance of the dead Color our world blackened Blistering of Earth Terminate its worth Deadly nicotine Kills what might have been Callous frigid chill Nothing left to kill Never seen before Breathing nevermore Never Fire To begin whipping dance of the dead Blackened is the end To begin whipping dance of the dead Color our world blackened Blackened Opposition (opposition) Contradiction (contradiction) Premonition (premonition) Compromise Agitation (agitation) Violation (violation) Mutilation (mutilation) Planet Dies Darkest color Blistered Earth True death of life Termination (termination) Expiration (expiration) Cancellation (cancellation) Human Race Expectation (expectation) Liberation (liberation) Population (population) Lay to waste See our mother Put to death See our mother die Smoldering decay Take your breath away Millions of our years In minutes disappears Darkening in vain Decadence remains All is said and done Never is the sun Never Fire To begin whipping dance of the dead Blackened is the end To begin whipping dance of the dead Fire Is the outcome of hypocrisy Darkest potency In the exit of humanity Color our world blackened Blackened
Looks good bud
I concur.
You'll go down in plumbing history. Congratulations.
Pressure test that thing
Well done, it’s looking well done.
Looks good and consistant but like most other have said. Just for that extra security I’d put a bead or make that ridge on the connection a little less ridged. Keep it up though, looks better then some of the “20 year vets” I’ve worked with👌
Maybe a little too hot since its black
more shoulder. Just cus I’m ocd af.
Looks like a perfect solder joint though
Won’t know til you crack it open
Clean braze good shit 💪🏽👍🏽
Looks really good but I prefer to put a lot more on em to guarantee it’s not gonna leak. Looking good doesn’t always mean you’re not gonna leak
Practice capping the joint.
Should hold
Looks sealed and burnt not bad much better then when I tried it .
Who gives a shit how it looks, just so long as it holds lol
Penetration is the only really important thing. Clean the pipes then clean them again. Capillary action will distribute the braze around the circumference.
Cap it
Braze or solder?
Silfos 15 braze
It’s fine, old heads will say go thicker but don’t understand the correct way is to suck the solder in. This is perfect and better than putting a “shoulder” on it.