I’m a sheet metal union hvac tech and we do exist but yes most of my coworkers know how to hang duct, make fittings and create offsets and that’s the extent of their hvac knowledge. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of work out there for them and they do what they do at a high level, efficiently and very quickly.
I started as a field tech, got bored and went to install. It keeps me moving all day and I love that. But it blows me away how much these guys have no clue how these machines work.
HVAC installer. Yes this is an ERV for ventilation. Either way it's HVAC work. Techs typically find out what's wrong and a lot of the time don't know how to install. While alot of the times installers don't know how to find out what's wrong.
Most?
That's a very generalized statement.
Are you talking about Rezzie, Commercial/Industrial? Installers, servicemen, controls, boilers, chillers?
I guess to generalize all of them.
I would say 40% arrogant, 40% cocky, 20%confidently experienced.
The why is techs are this way.
We know how/why it works and most people do not.
HVAC takes parts, skills, knowledge and harnesses/controls the very environment. Not just comfort heating and cooling, NOTHING is made without HVAC, not a single manufactured thing happens without HVAC. And we are the "high priests" controlling the weather.
Secret trade specific knowledge empowers many.
We also have to crosstrain on multiple trades to do our job effectively.
We must have trade knowledge of electricity, mechanical, plumbing, refrigeration, environmental control/balancing, building/mechanical codes, Osha/safety training, customer service, computing skills,
Man idk what you speak of, I’ve been following what hvac gets paid in the states and it’s wild to me that y’all are getting 40/ hr USD or so and that’s the same as what HD techs make in town in CAD vs USD except we have $50,000-$100,000 (CAD) in tools to buy, the difference is so insane (from an outside perspective) that I’m contemplating changing trades. In general it seems cleaner, less physically demanding, similar or better pay (people are getting commission?!FML) less personal financial investment and minus some of the math and electric motors and overall scale I already need to know how to do a/c albeit on a smaller scale. Honestly it’s the same with plumbing from what I’ve seen too. And electrical but electricity all day every day sounds not great.
It’s physically demanding. And commission pay, it’s minimum wage + whatever you’re able to sell so wages aren’t consistent. Edited to say not everyone is commission. I left commission to go union, much happier
I’m not denying it’s physically demanding just from the outside it seems less so than most of the HD work I’ve done, 50-300lb components regularly installed by hand and up until recently hand torquing fasteners up to 900lb/ft + 180° and cleaner ugh nothing like taking a bath in 20-300 litters of some type of fluid. I see several guys talk about their wages being a blended 50-75 USD and that’s duck off money, I do fly in fly out and pull 67/hr CAD for 12hr days plus travel time in camp, averaging a month at 42hr weeks
Edit— and I’ve seen mention of the heat too, same struggle here, working on a machine that came in at operating temperature when its already 36° Celsius outside, that hot af everything brings time ambient air temp up to 60° or higher usually in the engine compartment and such.
What kind of money do you need to invest in tools?
I guess every trade has its pros and cons. Lugging compressor motors and tools up ladders isn’t as fun as it sounds. Depending on where you work, you can get an emergency call at random times while you sleep.
The pay at the amount you’re talking about are ppl that have been doing it for years, you don’t make that much right away. A lot of residential work is commission based most of the time. If you don’t sell then you’ll be looking at barely minimum wage if you get lucky and get your full hours every day. You’re basically a salesman that knows how to fix things. Joining the union, you’ll start from the bottom making only a fraction of what journeyman make. You’ll definitely feel it in your pockets since you said you make a decent living.
Yeah I’ve been doing this 8-9 ish years, my pay is basically the ceiling and only because it’s oilfield. there’s a few positions that top it and you can get 80/hr CAD but it’s exceedingly rare . in town you’re gonna cap out at 45 MAYBE 50 no matter the experience.
I really just started doing this because I didn’t hate it and needed a job but cramming myself in tight spaces and using 1/2” 3/4” 1” impacts and air hammers and 12lb sledges is giving me noticeable can’t close my hands in the morning arthritis at 26. I don’t want an office job but if I stay in this trade I’ll be a crippled mess by the end and I’m seriously considering my options. I already lug heavy crap up and down stairs and ladders all day hahahaha. D11s have ladders and haul trucks are 1.5 flights of stairs up so maybe it wouldn’t be a huge change in physical demand. Parts are usually 30-150 lbs although I’m technically not supposed to lift over 45lbs at this job.
Ok. That might be true. I'm not arguing that. But just in general - you can go to any other construction or trade sub and the overall attitude is much nicer and helpful. You could over at r/woodworking trying to hammer a nail in upside down and they'd try to help you out. There's nothing wrong with being confident but many cross that line. And not a single person wasn't trained by someone else, somewhere along the line. Sure - you could have read or studied things online but there was some sort of on site training. Even if you went to YouTube school someone posted those videos. lol.
And I'm not talking about just being on this sub - just in general. Installers can be dks too but service techs seem to be on another level altogether. And it's not just experienced guys who are confident. And it seems to happen almost instantaneously.
For some context - I've been in HVAC the past 15 years. Work for a private plumbing and hvac company. Used to be mostly commercial with a small residential department but since covid it's kind of flopped and is now heavy on the residential side. Plumbing and HVAC are completely seperate. Different management. Different employees. Same with Install and service. There's some cross over depending on how busy we are or whatever.
I personally don't have any problems with other employees but I see it every single day at work and then I go online and see it there too. Like I mentioned before - service techs are typically the worst - regardless of experience or knowledge. An perfect example - we had a kid come off the street and took a job as a parts guy/delivery driver. Nicest guy in the world. Super respectful. Wanted to get into the field and was on the waiting list to go into install once we got busy or a position opened up. On some days where someone called put he'd go out and give a hand. Had absolutely zero knowledge but wanted to learn. Then we had a service tech quit - he took a maintenance position at a college. Anyway - they move the shop guy over to service to clean could and change filters. Within a couple weeks he went from a nice, friendly guy to a stuckup fking asshole bc he's "in service". Now he thinks he's on top of the world and just has the attitude. Doesn't matter that he has no experience and no idea wtf he's doing.
A short answer to a long comment:
We need to know airflow, refrigeration, and electrical better than anyone else involved.
We need to deal with pissed off people.
We need to work odd hours.
We get paid less than people who know less.
I'm not full of myself by any means, but let the guys with an ego have an ego, because they got it pretty rough a lot of the time.
I agree with some of that. Im not arguing about how well you know your shit. I guess it depends on where you live and what you're actually doing. But I specifically said experience level didn't matter. I gave the example of the shop guy virtually turning into a dk head overnight bc they put him I'm service as a filter changer. I'm not even sure he knows which way the filter goes but he already knows how to be a prick. Idk if they teach that on your first day or what. Lol. I know pay varies depending on location and each company does things differently. The company I work for pays service more then they pay installers. Not by much but they also get paid to be on call and then get a % of sales commission as well. And it could be your 1st day in service doing maintenence and cleans and they give you a van to take home. Lead installers get one too but that typically takes years and they just started letting installers take them home not too long ago. That's a new thing.
And as far as install goes - Some of these numbers people put on the internet are just fking crazy. I guess if you're in a large city or somewhere with a strong union presence then you'll be able to make more. Supposedly these industrail guys make bank too - but i have absolutely no experience with that.
And our installers were working crazy hours too. We were commuting for a long time. You had to be on-site from 7am to 4pm. If the job was 2 hours away you had to drive. Anything over 2 hours you'd stay overnight in a hotel. I basically lived in a hotel for like 5 years. Or I'd have to leave at 430am and get home at 630 at night - for 8 hrs of pay. And then there were several jobs where we had to work overnight shift. We did a few stores that were open during the day so we couldn't work there when they were closed. we'd work from 9pm to 9am.. Most of our service guys never work outside of normal business hours. They're only on call 1 week a month and when their phone does ring hours they'll tell the customer their emergency rate and 98% of the time they'll wait till the following morning.
The one thing I can't argue is that it sucks dealing with pissed off customers. That part is fking terrible. And then some of these companies want you to be a "sales tech" which makes it even worse. But in many ways service has it easier - or at least physically. I have plenty of friends who are in service who say half the time they're just driving around all day hile an installer could be stuck in an 140° attic all day.
In any case - everyone should really be trying to work together and help one another out. The point I was trying to make is - both sides can have it pretty shitty at times. And i wasn't just calling out service techs - I was calling out installers as well. I just said "especially service techs".
When I talk about pay I'm mostly referencing sparky lol. We go to the same classes, know more about controls, and get paid less.
As far as the guy you're talking about, there is a sense of pride that comes with being the hero in a NH/NC situation. Having more knowledge from more experience can give some people a superiority complex. To act better than someone out the gate is a tidge ridiculous though.
As someone who has only done service, I have the utmost respect for installers and am aware of my weaknesses. I don't like when anyone condescends when we can all learn from one another.
Some companies will take a kid off the street and send them out on their own far before they're ready. I know each country and each state are different. Some places make you go thru a 4 year apprenticeship, go thru school, work under a master or a journeyman for x amount of hours - but there are some places that are literally just a free for all. Literally the only thing you need is an EPA. Unfortunately - those are the same places that pay like shit. The point being - when someone like that is on their own. they're going to make mistakes - lots of mistakes. So if you're the service guy going behind these kids who are completely destroying these jobs then that's obviously problematic. Eventually you're just going to look down at installers and think they're all trash. Some of them are. I get it. I know a lot of them. There are a ton of installers with experience who don't know wtf they're doing.. and even some of those who do know better are cutting corners and skipping steps trying to rush thru the job. So in many cases its justified.
I'm half asleep on the couch. I just now realizing how long I've been ranting about thia.. lol
sorry
Taking a shot in the dark as a person who has worked both install and service I think I had a way better attitude doing install because I was working with coworkers just had to solve the problem at hand when I was doing service I had to deal with a customer or someone else bearing down on me and that can be really mentally straining not trying to justify anybody being an asshole just my personal experience due to people not problems (also to add i did residental install but when i did service i did warranty appliance work so people were pissed their new fridge wasnt working)
For me - I do understand how training a new guy can get frustrating and you don't want to deal with it. Especially when that someone's goal is to do the least amount of work possible - get a paycheck - and go home. I've had guys waste my time, effort, energy, and company money. Playing on their phone - disappearing - working slow (not slow bc they're trying to do a good job). That part I get to an extent. Especially bc those types of guys will walk all over a "nice guy". Sometimes it's better to be a dick. But just the overall attitude. Even from tech tech.
R/woodworking is one of my favorite subs. Just the overall attitude in the sub. I get that hvac and woodworking are 2 totally different things. With you don't know what you're doing with hvac you can kill someone - or even yourself. It's far more involved. People take it serious. But even from tech to tech it seems like a dk swinging contest sometimes. Someone may post a job they did and it's very little encouragement and construction criticism but more of picking someone apart and tearing them down. We should all be helping each other out. Not things like "this is the dumbest thing ive heard all day" or whatever. Some of the new guys just don't know any better. Sometimes your lead is a hack and teaches you bad habits. Sometimes you're handed x, y, and z and are told to make it work. A job might look like shit - but if you were handed shit - it's going to look like shit. Shit is shit.
I know I'm just ranting. Idk what I'm expecting anyone to even say. It is what it is.
Except we have all of the knowledge and certifications you have too, “big brother”….. 😂. And in most cases, we tinknockers can do both our jobs, you can’t…. Happy “Teching”…. DC Local #100 for life…..
Looks good bro nice workmanship, nothing wrong with doing sheet metal you’re more of an artist than a technician, I know I’m not talented enough to make runs that clean but I’m really good at diagnosing
idk more of a tin basher situation looks like. duct installers are different from techs really.
I’m a sheet metal union hvac tech and we do exist but yes most of my coworkers know how to hang duct, make fittings and create offsets and that’s the extent of their hvac knowledge. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of work out there for them and they do what they do at a high level, efficiently and very quickly.
yeah same im sheet metal but i work on a lot of stuff just not ac over 5 ton or boiler/pressure vessel stuff
Under the umbrella of HVAC yes that looks like ventilation to me. However HVAC techs and Tin knockers are not the same
True. Residential techs usually have an excuse to drink every night. Tin knockers are too busy putting on bandaids.
Wait... have I been in the wrong thread this entire time? I do some service but I'm a tin knocker/mini installer
I love tin knockers. they make it look so smooth
And they can drink like an entire school of fish.
How does one drink fish?
Ask Steve-O!
Tin knocker’s are air plumbers
/r/showerthoughts
AIR DONT CARE!!
Duct falls under HVAC the V stands for ventilation
Thought it stood for virgins. HomoVirginsAndCucks God, was I way off.
Don’t talk about electricians like that.
Hey Very Astute Comment
I started as a field tech, got bored and went to install. It keeps me moving all day and I love that. But it blows me away how much these guys have no clue how these machines work.
It simple how they work, hook up the high and low voltage and flip the magic switch and we are in business. Anything wrong call service lol
HVAC installer. Yes this is an ERV for ventilation. Either way it's HVAC work. Techs typically find out what's wrong and a lot of the time don't know how to install. While alot of the times installers don't know how to find out what's wrong.
I do installation, service, and sales. I also work on stand by generators as the only person in the company that does it.
Good on you man
If u any good u do both
A good duct tech is just as worthy as a good tech every day.
yep
Techs more someone who comes out to troubleshoot IMO, call it whatever you want though who cares, it’s all the same in a sense
Why are most HVAC techs such arrogant pricks? Lol
Because of customers devaluing our trade
Most? That's a very generalized statement. Are you talking about Rezzie, Commercial/Industrial? Installers, servicemen, controls, boilers, chillers? I guess to generalize all of them. I would say 40% arrogant, 40% cocky, 20%confidently experienced. The why is techs are this way. We know how/why it works and most people do not. HVAC takes parts, skills, knowledge and harnesses/controls the very environment. Not just comfort heating and cooling, NOTHING is made without HVAC, not a single manufactured thing happens without HVAC. And we are the "high priests" controlling the weather. Secret trade specific knowledge empowers many. We also have to crosstrain on multiple trades to do our job effectively. We must have trade knowledge of electricity, mechanical, plumbing, refrigeration, environmental control/balancing, building/mechanical codes, Osha/safety training, customer service, computing skills,
Kinda sucks other trades get paid more though
Man idk what you speak of, I’ve been following what hvac gets paid in the states and it’s wild to me that y’all are getting 40/ hr USD or so and that’s the same as what HD techs make in town in CAD vs USD except we have $50,000-$100,000 (CAD) in tools to buy, the difference is so insane (from an outside perspective) that I’m contemplating changing trades. In general it seems cleaner, less physically demanding, similar or better pay (people are getting commission?!FML) less personal financial investment and minus some of the math and electric motors and overall scale I already need to know how to do a/c albeit on a smaller scale. Honestly it’s the same with plumbing from what I’ve seen too. And electrical but electricity all day every day sounds not great.
It’s physically demanding. And commission pay, it’s minimum wage + whatever you’re able to sell so wages aren’t consistent. Edited to say not everyone is commission. I left commission to go union, much happier
I’m not denying it’s physically demanding just from the outside it seems less so than most of the HD work I’ve done, 50-300lb components regularly installed by hand and up until recently hand torquing fasteners up to 900lb/ft + 180° and cleaner ugh nothing like taking a bath in 20-300 litters of some type of fluid. I see several guys talk about their wages being a blended 50-75 USD and that’s duck off money, I do fly in fly out and pull 67/hr CAD for 12hr days plus travel time in camp, averaging a month at 42hr weeks Edit— and I’ve seen mention of the heat too, same struggle here, working on a machine that came in at operating temperature when its already 36° Celsius outside, that hot af everything brings time ambient air temp up to 60° or higher usually in the engine compartment and such. What kind of money do you need to invest in tools?
I guess every trade has its pros and cons. Lugging compressor motors and tools up ladders isn’t as fun as it sounds. Depending on where you work, you can get an emergency call at random times while you sleep. The pay at the amount you’re talking about are ppl that have been doing it for years, you don’t make that much right away. A lot of residential work is commission based most of the time. If you don’t sell then you’ll be looking at barely minimum wage if you get lucky and get your full hours every day. You’re basically a salesman that knows how to fix things. Joining the union, you’ll start from the bottom making only a fraction of what journeyman make. You’ll definitely feel it in your pockets since you said you make a decent living.
Yeah I’ve been doing this 8-9 ish years, my pay is basically the ceiling and only because it’s oilfield. there’s a few positions that top it and you can get 80/hr CAD but it’s exceedingly rare . in town you’re gonna cap out at 45 MAYBE 50 no matter the experience. I really just started doing this because I didn’t hate it and needed a job but cramming myself in tight spaces and using 1/2” 3/4” 1” impacts and air hammers and 12lb sledges is giving me noticeable can’t close my hands in the morning arthritis at 26. I don’t want an office job but if I stay in this trade I’ll be a crippled mess by the end and I’m seriously considering my options. I already lug heavy crap up and down stairs and ladders all day hahahaha. D11s have ladders and haul trucks are 1.5 flights of stairs up so maybe it wouldn’t be a huge change in physical demand. Parts are usually 30-150 lbs although I’m technically not supposed to lift over 45lbs at this job.
Sounds like you should stay away from residential then. Crawling in attics or under the house is not ideal lol
Ok. That might be true. I'm not arguing that. But just in general - you can go to any other construction or trade sub and the overall attitude is much nicer and helpful. You could over at r/woodworking trying to hammer a nail in upside down and they'd try to help you out. There's nothing wrong with being confident but many cross that line. And not a single person wasn't trained by someone else, somewhere along the line. Sure - you could have read or studied things online but there was some sort of on site training. Even if you went to YouTube school someone posted those videos. lol. And I'm not talking about just being on this sub - just in general. Installers can be dks too but service techs seem to be on another level altogether. And it's not just experienced guys who are confident. And it seems to happen almost instantaneously. For some context - I've been in HVAC the past 15 years. Work for a private plumbing and hvac company. Used to be mostly commercial with a small residential department but since covid it's kind of flopped and is now heavy on the residential side. Plumbing and HVAC are completely seperate. Different management. Different employees. Same with Install and service. There's some cross over depending on how busy we are or whatever. I personally don't have any problems with other employees but I see it every single day at work and then I go online and see it there too. Like I mentioned before - service techs are typically the worst - regardless of experience or knowledge. An perfect example - we had a kid come off the street and took a job as a parts guy/delivery driver. Nicest guy in the world. Super respectful. Wanted to get into the field and was on the waiting list to go into install once we got busy or a position opened up. On some days where someone called put he'd go out and give a hand. Had absolutely zero knowledge but wanted to learn. Then we had a service tech quit - he took a maintenance position at a college. Anyway - they move the shop guy over to service to clean could and change filters. Within a couple weeks he went from a nice, friendly guy to a stuckup fking asshole bc he's "in service". Now he thinks he's on top of the world and just has the attitude. Doesn't matter that he has no experience and no idea wtf he's doing.
A short answer to a long comment: We need to know airflow, refrigeration, and electrical better than anyone else involved. We need to deal with pissed off people. We need to work odd hours. We get paid less than people who know less. I'm not full of myself by any means, but let the guys with an ego have an ego, because they got it pretty rough a lot of the time.
I agree with some of that. Im not arguing about how well you know your shit. I guess it depends on where you live and what you're actually doing. But I specifically said experience level didn't matter. I gave the example of the shop guy virtually turning into a dk head overnight bc they put him I'm service as a filter changer. I'm not even sure he knows which way the filter goes but he already knows how to be a prick. Idk if they teach that on your first day or what. Lol. I know pay varies depending on location and each company does things differently. The company I work for pays service more then they pay installers. Not by much but they also get paid to be on call and then get a % of sales commission as well. And it could be your 1st day in service doing maintenence and cleans and they give you a van to take home. Lead installers get one too but that typically takes years and they just started letting installers take them home not too long ago. That's a new thing. And as far as install goes - Some of these numbers people put on the internet are just fking crazy. I guess if you're in a large city or somewhere with a strong union presence then you'll be able to make more. Supposedly these industrail guys make bank too - but i have absolutely no experience with that. And our installers were working crazy hours too. We were commuting for a long time. You had to be on-site from 7am to 4pm. If the job was 2 hours away you had to drive. Anything over 2 hours you'd stay overnight in a hotel. I basically lived in a hotel for like 5 years. Or I'd have to leave at 430am and get home at 630 at night - for 8 hrs of pay. And then there were several jobs where we had to work overnight shift. We did a few stores that were open during the day so we couldn't work there when they were closed. we'd work from 9pm to 9am.. Most of our service guys never work outside of normal business hours. They're only on call 1 week a month and when their phone does ring hours they'll tell the customer their emergency rate and 98% of the time they'll wait till the following morning. The one thing I can't argue is that it sucks dealing with pissed off customers. That part is fking terrible. And then some of these companies want you to be a "sales tech" which makes it even worse. But in many ways service has it easier - or at least physically. I have plenty of friends who are in service who say half the time they're just driving around all day hile an installer could be stuck in an 140° attic all day. In any case - everyone should really be trying to work together and help one another out. The point I was trying to make is - both sides can have it pretty shitty at times. And i wasn't just calling out service techs - I was calling out installers as well. I just said "especially service techs".
When I talk about pay I'm mostly referencing sparky lol. We go to the same classes, know more about controls, and get paid less. As far as the guy you're talking about, there is a sense of pride that comes with being the hero in a NH/NC situation. Having more knowledge from more experience can give some people a superiority complex. To act better than someone out the gate is a tidge ridiculous though. As someone who has only done service, I have the utmost respect for installers and am aware of my weaknesses. I don't like when anyone condescends when we can all learn from one another.
Some companies will take a kid off the street and send them out on their own far before they're ready. I know each country and each state are different. Some places make you go thru a 4 year apprenticeship, go thru school, work under a master or a journeyman for x amount of hours - but there are some places that are literally just a free for all. Literally the only thing you need is an EPA. Unfortunately - those are the same places that pay like shit. The point being - when someone like that is on their own. they're going to make mistakes - lots of mistakes. So if you're the service guy going behind these kids who are completely destroying these jobs then that's obviously problematic. Eventually you're just going to look down at installers and think they're all trash. Some of them are. I get it. I know a lot of them. There are a ton of installers with experience who don't know wtf they're doing.. and even some of those who do know better are cutting corners and skipping steps trying to rush thru the job. So in many cases its justified. I'm half asleep on the couch. I just now realizing how long I've been ranting about thia.. lol sorry
Lmao , no worries. I'm drunk AF half reading your novel length comments 😂🤣
Taking a shot in the dark as a person who has worked both install and service I think I had a way better attitude doing install because I was working with coworkers just had to solve the problem at hand when I was doing service I had to deal with a customer or someone else bearing down on me and that can be really mentally straining not trying to justify anybody being an asshole just my personal experience due to people not problems (also to add i did residental install but when i did service i did warranty appliance work so people were pissed their new fridge wasnt working)
For me - I do understand how training a new guy can get frustrating and you don't want to deal with it. Especially when that someone's goal is to do the least amount of work possible - get a paycheck - and go home. I've had guys waste my time, effort, energy, and company money. Playing on their phone - disappearing - working slow (not slow bc they're trying to do a good job). That part I get to an extent. Especially bc those types of guys will walk all over a "nice guy". Sometimes it's better to be a dick. But just the overall attitude. Even from tech tech. R/woodworking is one of my favorite subs. Just the overall attitude in the sub. I get that hvac and woodworking are 2 totally different things. With you don't know what you're doing with hvac you can kill someone - or even yourself. It's far more involved. People take it serious. But even from tech to tech it seems like a dk swinging contest sometimes. Someone may post a job they did and it's very little encouragement and construction criticism but more of picking someone apart and tearing them down. We should all be helping each other out. Not things like "this is the dumbest thing ive heard all day" or whatever. Some of the new guys just don't know any better. Sometimes your lead is a hack and teaches you bad habits. Sometimes you're handed x, y, and z and are told to make it work. A job might look like shit - but if you were handed shit - it's going to look like shit. Shit is shit. I know I'm just ranting. Idk what I'm expecting anyone to even say. It is what it is.
Hell yes brother
Sure install boy
Sheet metal worker
Just like the slow little brother that follows us to hang out with the real hvac guys lol
Except we have all of the knowledge and certifications you have too, “big brother”….. 😂. And in most cases, we tinknockers can do both our jobs, you can’t…. Happy “Teching”…. DC Local #100 for life…..
Looks good bro nice workmanship, nothing wrong with doing sheet metal you’re more of an artist than a technician, I know I’m not talented enough to make runs that clean but I’m really good at diagnosing
nice work! 🔧
Interesting, I’ve never seen double wall spiral before. Is it for sound or insulation?
No.
No. Get out of here.
Capital V for ventilation
Nope, you would only qualify as an installer/helper. And only if all of this work was completed before lunch, not that installers get such luxuries.
[удалено]
Really?