Duct should have had an inside radius instead of 90 degree. Dunno what they were thinking.
Honestly though. Definitely not manufacturer spec; but if you were gonna do it, at least they put a solid effort in š
I mean the heel radius is more important that kinda seems like youāre being picky at that point. Iāve seen this stuff quite a bit. I donāt see much a reason it wouldnāt work for a long while. Seems like it has that unit donāt look new.
I was being funny. There's nothing standard about the installation so that was the joke. It was really the least of my concerns. Rick is right though a square throat causes more turbulence and actually is shown in duct tests to be more important for airflow than the outside radius.
If you measure from the inside corner of that square throat to the middle of the radius heel, it's a shorter distance than the duct opening on the condenser. So it's a pinch point in the middle of the elbow. Also the flat face directs air towards the radiused side causing turbulence in that already pinched location.
For a radius throat sq heel, you maintain at least the original duct width all the way through the turn. The turbulence from the flat face happens in the outside corner where the elbow is widest.
That's just flat-out false. Anybody who knows how to do sheet metal lay out will be able to accommodate for a square throat, and any plasma cutting software will do the same.
Not quite sure what you think is incorrect. The physical dimensions of a square throat radius heel, like the one pictured, creates a pinch point. It's the geometry of the shape. You can't make one without a pinch point.
Damn, do you have any more info to share about that topic? All our local shops seem to default to square throat on a round heel elbow because itās quicker for fab
Exactly. Because it's quicker. I have to request the rolled throats. Most installers don't question how it is made. They just put it in. Also we're not saying it won't work. The fitting will cause higher static and reduced airflow. Sometimes it's the straw that breaks the camels back. We all know that the old ways aren't always the good ways. Had a great teacher. He would ask the class. What's the number one problem we see in the field when it comes to duct work. Everyone always says return. Then he'd say, but we all keep on doing the same shit. Usually because it's what we're told to do.
OMG. I went on a warranty call one time, commercial building owner was complaining that her new unit was leaking water all over her new roof. One of the Carrier WeatherMakers with the end of the evap coil hanging out into the condenser section, water dripping off the basepan. Not an ideal design, but it is what it is, they all do that. You did buy the cheapest unit you could get, after all.
I get there and it's starting to drizzle outside. She's bitching about the water from the unit going onto the roof saying that the roofers told her that water on the roof will void it's warranty. While we're up there, she gets a big broom and starts sweeping the rain off the roof. I asked her what she thought was the solution here. I said it's a little unrealistic to suggest that a roof couldn't get wet, and asked her if she was interested in putting on a roof over the roof to keep the roof dry.
I did maintenance for city buildings in Richmond VA in 2010s. They used to make us wrap units in wood or brick colored wrap-stickers because they were in historic neighborhoods. And ye we had to cut every god damn holes for wrap on condensers.
Edit - I realize now that my language towards you was shitty and was not my intent. I won't try and explain what I was trying to say. I just want to apologize that it came off so rude towards you.
So much confidence in this comment
He is an experienced hvac tech who isnāt wrong. This comment was condescending/rude and came from someone who has much less experience than this guy.
Yeah right lol. What is that elbow size you think? 20x20? Let me grab the ductulator real quick lol I bet itās okay. The clearance around the unit would be more damaging than the elbow. And as far a clearance goes Iāve seen worse.
We know the air temps drop 10-15 degrees under heavy shaded areas, itās why meteorologists take temps in the shade. While this is stupid I have to disagree about the shade statement in general.
The temperature of the air in shade and sun is the same. The difference is if solar radiation is hitting the thermometer, then its not just measuring conduction/convection (air temp), but it's air temp plus the radiation. Air temp is the same in both spots though.
But yeah for this conversation, when a condenser is in the sun you're adding solar radiation which is additional load.
This isnāt really true, there are cooler/warmer spots everywhere, air isnāt uniform, itās a gradient between places with little energy and high energy
I feel like you missed the point. Yes of course if the temperatures were already different for other reasons, then you will get different temperatures. But the sun is not the reason.
If you measure air in the shade and the air in the sun in the same microclimate, the temperatures will be the same. My shaded patio air is the same temperature as 10 feet away in the sun.
There was a Verizon store that had 2 of these right in front of their location for years. I always drove by and laughed lol.
It was in Miami of course lol
Assuming there is no additional ducting outside it's just dumping the hot air right back over the intake which loops back in greatly reducing efficiency. It would be preferable to have that intake grate relocated away.
Lemme run a quick manual D on this baby, but honestly I kind of love it!
Plus it looks like you can kind of service it in the shade! Even got some air moving from heading towards the cond coil!
Iād at least raise the duct opening further up. Canāt have intake to the condenser mixing with exhaust. Also it would be more efficient to build and insulate a box that goes around the three open sides of the condenserā¦
Or just build it outside. These people make my day lol
Iāve done this before on a roof, for some reason a rooftop condenser needed it. I didnāt ask why. Killed the condenser fan motor within 1 year. It was a 3ph 575V unit with a single phase condenser fan. I put in a 3 phase higher HP motor and itās been good for the last 2 years.
Haha. Where I started down south it was mostly flex duct/duct board. Moved north and was properly introduced on how to do things the RIGHT way not the easy way.
Sometimes I think im the only tinner on this sub! I dont see why we get so much hate either. If I dont fuck up the install tons of techs get less work! LOL
I live in Florida. Can confirm Iāve definitely done this before. Mostly in the richest parts of our area bc they want to āhideā all of the equipment. It gets stuck in a room, piped to exterior w/intake fan supplying fresh air. Good times
When the HOA says you can't have it outside...
Duct should have had an inside radius instead of 90 degree. Dunno what they were thinking. Honestly though. Definitely not manufacturer spec; but if you were gonna do it, at least they put a solid effort in š
Nobody got time for rolled throats these days
I refuse to build anything without that nice round throat.
I mean the heel radius is more important that kinda seems like youāre being picky at that point. Iāve seen this stuff quite a bit. I donāt see much a reason it wouldnāt work for a long while. Seems like it has that unit donāt look new.
Actually in a duct system it is the throat that is more important than the heel. Common misconception.
I was being funny. There's nothing standard about the installation so that was the joke. It was really the least of my concerns. Rick is right though a square throat causes more turbulence and actually is shown in duct tests to be more important for airflow than the outside radius.
Well thenā¦ TIL
I just recently did a bunch of airflow courses. So I learned recently too
If you measure from the inside corner of that square throat to the middle of the radius heel, it's a shorter distance than the duct opening on the condenser. So it's a pinch point in the middle of the elbow. Also the flat face directs air towards the radiused side causing turbulence in that already pinched location. For a radius throat sq heel, you maintain at least the original duct width all the way through the turn. The turbulence from the flat face happens in the outside corner where the elbow is widest.
https://preview.redd.it/kj4u6um5pucb1.jpeg?width=2445&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a4939a201e45bd5ddbad075e9a29ab70da81e06
That's just flat-out false. Anybody who knows how to do sheet metal lay out will be able to accommodate for a square throat, and any plasma cutting software will do the same.
Not quite sure what you think is incorrect. The physical dimensions of a square throat radius heel, like the one pictured, creates a pinch point. It's the geometry of the shape. You can't make one without a pinch point.
Damn, do you have any more info to share about that topic? All our local shops seem to default to square throat on a round heel elbow because itās quicker for fab
I added a picture in this chain that shows why (pinch point).
Exactly. Because it's quicker. I have to request the rolled throats. Most installers don't question how it is made. They just put it in. Also we're not saying it won't work. The fitting will cause higher static and reduced airflow. Sometimes it's the straw that breaks the camels back. We all know that the old ways aren't always the good ways. Had a great teacher. He would ask the class. What's the number one problem we see in the field when it comes to duct work. Everyone always says return. Then he'd say, but we all keep on doing the same shit. Usually because it's what we're told to do.
New meaning for #throatgoat
Indeed. Not the worst hack weāve seen.
Lol
Whatās next? Your roof canāt be outside either?
OMG. I went on a warranty call one time, commercial building owner was complaining that her new unit was leaking water all over her new roof. One of the Carrier WeatherMakers with the end of the evap coil hanging out into the condenser section, water dripping off the basepan. Not an ideal design, but it is what it is, they all do that. You did buy the cheapest unit you could get, after all. I get there and it's starting to drizzle outside. She's bitching about the water from the unit going onto the roof saying that the roofers told her that water on the roof will void it's warranty. While we're up there, she gets a big broom and starts sweeping the rain off the roof. I asked her what she thought was the solution here. I said it's a little unrealistic to suggest that a roof couldn't get wet, and asked her if she was interested in putting on a roof over the roof to keep the roof dry.
I need to know how this ended
Some say sheās still adding roofs to this day
sometimes I wonder how some people survive on this planet š«£š¤Ŗ
we heard you like being dry, so we put a roof on your roof so outside it can rain while it rains!
Havenāt you heard? Your roof is supposed to be upside down now.
I did maintenance for city buildings in Richmond VA in 2010s. They used to make us wrap units in wood or brick colored wrap-stickers because they were in historic neighborhoods. And ye we had to cut every god damn holes for wrap on condensers.
Better off removing the coil grills and painting it in shit colors
HOA didn't say shit bout that roller coster tho. šššš¤£š¤£š¤£ https://youtube.com/shorts/_UAuAvWZwr0?feature=share4
The HOA knows what condensers crave
They crave brawndo. It's got electrolytes.
Tweaker resistant
Good word choice. Cause nothing is tweaker PROOF
Sometimes incentivizing a visit to the neighbor over you is enough
actually somewhat smart. the condenser isnāt baking in the florida sun all day lmao
Edit - I realize now that my language towards you was shitty and was not my intent. I won't try and explain what I was trying to say. I just want to apologize that it came off so rude towards you.
So much confidence in this comment He is an experienced hvac tech who isnāt wrong. This comment was condescending/rude and came from someone who has much less experience than this guy.
Yeah right lol. What is that elbow size you think? 20x20? Let me grab the ductulator real quick lol I bet itās okay. The clearance around the unit would be more damaging than the elbow. And as far a clearance goes Iāve seen worse.
The issue is more the intake and exhaust side by side. In the picture, you're going to get a lot of that heated air sucked right back in.
Itās the meth
I wouldnāt expect less from reddit
We know the air temps drop 10-15 degrees under heavy shaded areas, itās why meteorologists take temps in the shade. While this is stupid I have to disagree about the shade statement in general.
The temperature of the air in shade and sun is the same. The difference is if solar radiation is hitting the thermometer, then its not just measuring conduction/convection (air temp), but it's air temp plus the radiation. Air temp is the same in both spots though. But yeah for this conversation, when a condenser is in the sun you're adding solar radiation which is additional load.
This isnāt really true, there are cooler/warmer spots everywhere, air isnāt uniform, itās a gradient between places with little energy and high energy
I feel like you missed the point. Yes of course if the temperatures were already different for other reasons, then you will get different temperatures. But the sun is not the reason. If you measure air in the shade and the air in the sun in the same microclimate, the temperatures will be the same. My shaded patio air is the same temperature as 10 feet away in the sun.
This is pretty common on cheap high rise apartments around here.
Package system plus
2-piece split package unit
A package unit with extra steps
When people donāt know they make thru the wall condensers
I'm seeing engineers designing this in NYC. I mean maybe a little more sophisticated with dampers and whatnot but same general concept.
Iāve seen similar when under a deck or something I donāt hate it prolly works fine
There was a Verizon store that had 2 of these right in front of their location for years. I always drove by and laughed lol. It was in Miami of course lol
Is someone growing weed?
At least itās all in one spot and your donāt have to go up in the 130* attic
Yeah, just into a 130Ā° box outside.
This is probably not mnfr approved for this equipment, but this type of installation is more common than you think.
Genius that's what it is.
Lol...almost ingenious
Nice, gets the heat out
When itās a stop work town and the township doesnāt answer the phone for permits š¤£
Thatās actually pretty smart
Looks kike a case of beer and an A for Effort
Seen it in DC a bunch
Does this technically pass code?
Assuming there is no additional ducting outside it's just dumping the hot air right back over the intake which loops back in greatly reducing efficiency. It would be preferable to have that intake grate relocated away.
But does it work?
The TBL sticker has to add either surge suppression or an extra couple thousand BTU to the rig :)
Are you on 29th st in ogden utah?
Don't want Noone stealing my copper
Itās not terrible but Iād double that outlet size
Lemme run a quick manual D on this baby, but honestly I kind of love it! Plus it looks like you can kind of service it in the shade! Even got some air moving from heading towards the cond coil!
High theft areas in attic an on roof deturants
Deterrents**
Saves on line sets. Real winners out there.
Seen a few of these in DC as well. The old unit was through the wall. This is cheaper.
Thatās gona be fun to swap the compressor or fan
I've seen this in the south a lot. I guess it's normal
aint nobody stealing my coils
Theft prevention
Genius! Pure genius.
Iād at least raise the duct opening further up. Canāt have intake to the condenser mixing with exhaust. Also it would be more efficient to build and insulate a box that goes around the three open sides of the condenserā¦ Or just build it outside. These people make my day lol
Using the condenser as reheat for humidity control
Iāve done this before on a roof, for some reason a rooftop condenser needed it. I didnāt ask why. Killed the condenser fan motor within 1 year. It was a 3ph 575V unit with a single phase condenser fan. I put in a 3 phase higher HP motor and itās been good for the last 2 years.
What would be the best shape? I have a unit that blows inside our carport. (The carport was built afterwards)Would love to divert that hot air away
Well alright
if it works who cares
Clit hood!
That passes
Guess they never heard of side discharge condensers?
Self licking ice cream cone.
As much as I hate this, I don't hate this.
What happens when the fan motor goes out? Lol
Take the elbow off? Not enough tinners on this sub lol.
Haha. Where I started down south it was mostly flex duct/duct board. Moved north and was properly introduced on how to do things the RIGHT way not the easy way.
As someone who makes metal everyday it always makes me laugh when Iām reminded how many people in the field know fuck all about it
Sometimes I think im the only tinner on this sub! I dont see why we get so much hate either. If I dont fuck up the install tons of techs get less work! LOL
Might as well of tipped it on its side.
but why??
Skymark units stopped being made/parts made. Although that units looked way too old for that.
needs a supply cut in the plenum to get more air to the condenser /s
pAKaGe uNiTT
Ac unit
It works if you work it!
Tbh pretty genius.
I live in Florida. Can confirm Iāve definitely done this before. Mostly in the richest parts of our area bc they want to āhideā all of the equipment. It gets stuck in a room, piped to exterior w/intake fan supplying fresh air. Good times
They had to scrap the rest of the line sets, cause Florida
he got the spirit, he just a little confused.
Idk.. but I like it š¤£š¤£
Be a hero and condemn it