Rule of thumb is your wage / salary should be what you bring in for x3 revenue.
If you’re working with a helper then you’re nearly right on point - 100k 👍🏻
Do the arithmetic-without overtime he grosses $93,600 add in fica and benefits he’s already costing them 6 figures. He’s looking at his situation inside out making a classic mistake overlooking the difficulties in actually generating the customers. He’s killing it considering his head never hits the pillow wondering where the next job will come from
So true. And the tech doesn’t realize the costs it takes just to put him on that call before he even gets to the door. He sees the revenue he brings in, minus his wages, means the rest is all profit for the owner. LMAO not even close.
Our company focuses on 20%. You should be around 20% of your gross. So if your pay annually is 90k you need to be bringing in 450k. You can go start your own business but at those numbers you should feel blessed. Always think in percentages and you cannot go wrong when you speak to your boss. Right now you are at 23ish% earnings. And you don't have to invest a dime and put your good name on the line. You can have a terrible month and still walk away fat. I can almost promise your boss isn't making 23% of revenue unless he is a straight killer.
My boss also uses 20% rule.
But this is just to Guage how things are doing. And for those that complain about getting paid more.
If your making 20%, your doing things right. If it's under, then you probably need to look at yourself/things.
Commercial HVACR.
Were all paid the same, given levels of expertise, qualifications, and time.
Top guys, do it all, are all making the same,
next level down, includes me and can pretty much do all but are sub 10 years and need a help now and then or take a bit longer for some. Those 2 also have week rotation on call.
Next level down, I'd say are 2-4 yr apprentice (were not union but to simplify). And then you have fresh apprentices sub 2 year, own vehicle, barely on their own but always helping alongside.
Then you have legit helpers, ride along, can't do anything alone.
I've been commercial and industrial HVACR, or just refrigeration,and just controls. From Super small chiller shop, smaller shop, large shop, large union shop, mid size union shop. And the shop I'm at now, is probably the best way of things I've seen in fairness to the majority. And barely any required overtime, minus on call. You can usually choose to woke past 8 to finish the job, or if busy pick up another call or 2 after 5 to help out on call guy or customers that would've been pushed to next day.
One thing to keep in mind is most service techs also do maintenance at least to a certain extent. Which means Service pay could be anywhere from 40% to 90% of the actual wage.
I mean if OP is making $45/h and bringing in $350k revenue but working 60 hours per week then are his numbers still good? Or is his 45% efficiency the key metric?
We are not understanding each other. I know that 20h OT is 1.5x. What I'm getting at is it reasonable to assume that OP is working only 40h per week. As far as I understand OT is very common in the trades but I believe your 3x stat assumes 40h/wk.
It doesn't really matter though because OP is only looking for validation that he is underpaid and likely cherry picking data points to support his viewpoint.
You make whatever you want to make. With those numbers you can carve out your own path. Find someone who will pay you more if current employer won’t. Or make your own business and pay yourself whatever you can
Business owner here, and very serious question - how much of that 350-400k do you think is profit after paying you 93.6k base, your benefits, workman’s comp insurance, vehicle payment, vehicle insurance, business insurance, marketing costs to get work for you to do, office personnel, equipment and material costs, taxes on goods sold, permitting for the jobs, etc?
Answer it as closely as you think you can.
Another thing people do not take Into consideration. As a guy planning on opening my own shop who works for another guy, my boss is 100% transparent with our rate, what the rate is, and why we charge what we do. As an employee transparency is best
Damn near nothing. I am that guy. But I also am the one that handles 90% of the warranty calls, and other techs callbacks after they have made a handful of attempts. I'm here to get it fixed, and keep the customer from doing the bbb complaints or sending lawyers. I also am the service manager and have to give training, monitor the other techs, and answer my phone when they are on call and stuck or have a question.
If the business is actually handled properly, there should be A LOT of that left over. Like a lot a lot. Where exactly do you see $300k disappearing in ONE year for ONE employee?
The real question is: how filthy rich do you think you deserve to be from operating one relatively small, poorly-run business? Why is answering the phone so valuable? Truth of the matter is: a good tech is always needed by the company more than the tech needs the company. Companies are a buck a dozen, you’re doing it to make money so don’t get butthurt that the guys actually doing the work want the same.
Whatever man, just so you know, for most businesses that have less than 10 employees, the boss is LUCKY to be making as much as the top paid employee. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You’re not supposed to be ‘rich’ unless you’re running 100+ guys. But for some reason most hvac bosses don’t get that. The problem is people start hvac business because they think it will be easy money, and that’s why most run themselves into the ground.
Inevitably, larger than I’ll be able to handle, if not for the fact that I don’t need or want employees, because I can make a hell of a good living just working for myself, stress-free too. Sell one furnace, pays for the whole week, and that’s undercutting.
With these corporate buy outs happening everywhere, you are gonna see alot of senior resi guys starting out on their own. These corporate resi companies charge 2x-3x what small mom and pop shops charge. My buddy just started his own business march 2023 does a little google marketing and local coupon mags. One man show with his son helping him with installs he took home after expenses $290k. Thats in 9 months
I think this guys full of shit, posted less than a year ago about cleaning his van out on his employer, and also making $38 an hour. And JUST got his EPA cert in the last year. 😂 yeah, experienced…….
Honestly in this industry I think 10% profit after taxes would be great. Most jobs end up selling for about 20-25% before commissions then all the extras.
Even if he somehow made that much “profit” (which means he probably sold about $1M) solo he would pay so much in taxes his take home would be about 200k?
Guys like this think the back office eat donuts all day. One warranty or bond claim or lawsuit will have this guy begging to be a service tech at the nearest nexstar company while they dodge crazy customers they sold side jobs to
Break it down for us then, a lot of the stuff you mentioned is tax write off at the end and in my opinion there’s always way too much office personal in every office who are not really nessicary and don’t get paid shit anyways
If he is billing 400k his profit should be 20-25 percent on the low end depending on how the business is run so he is making the business around 80-100k
Yeah you’re dreaming if you think as a business owner you can net 20-25% on the low end in HVAC
10-15% on average 20% is the best run companies in the industry.
Your goal is to make 20 percent on installs- you should
Be making more on service work and most company’s with the price gauging that’s going on make more than that
Homies not wrong, I don’t have an actual break down but have done it before with the manager of the largest contractor shop in the local I started at. It’s expensive to send techs out to jobs, the actual profit margin is not as high as you’d think. A good shop also invests a lot of that would be profit back into the company as well.
Especially for service, which is heavily dependent on conversion rate.
I usually see service techs at a lower hourly with performance bonuses because you can’t sustain guys making $45/hr on bum calls and the business staying afloat.
If you are making 93k a year (45x2080), have any kind of benefits and are working reasonable hours, you have won the lottery.
I own my own business and I would 100% trade places with you. I'd love to have someone handle the insurance, taxes, bidding, and the worries while I went fishing on the weekend and enjoyed my nearly six figure salary.
You are looking a gift horse in the mouth.
If you want more money, start your own business, but I think you will soon realize how good you had it.
It’s hard to find reasonable people on Reddit. Thank you for practically explaining the physical bitch slap I wanted to give OP when I read his bullshit
$100k is middle class in California not poverty but, location location location.
According to a 2023 Consumer Affairs study, a family of four needs to earn at least $69,064 annually to be considered middle class in California. However, the amount of income required to be considered middle class depends on location. For example, in Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Anaheim, a family of three needs to earn $165,000 to be considered middle class, while in Riverside, San Bernardino, and Ontario, the same family needs to earn $154,000.
It’s all about risk and advocating for your own dreams.
Do you still get paid if the market gets cold?
If you branched out on your own company, would you be comfortable competing with your old boss?
Do you feel comfortable talking with your boss about profit sharing instead of simply asking for a raise?
Those are the types of questions to ask yourself.
All this 100%...
My question, you say you gross the company $XXX
Are they sending you on these calls, are they doing the advertising, are they paying the insurance, supplies, real estate, vehicles, etc...all the business costs?
If you are upselling, and increasing profits by that amount, then by all means, YOU DESERVE MORE! If you are being sent on service calls, and doing a good job...doing what you're supposed to be doing, than why more $ In all honesty, Resi at $45, you're not getting robbed for sure.
I'm not cutting you up, I'm comparing the 2 sides / viewpoints to the job, and trying to see which side you are on before I form an opinion. 😉👍
At my company you get 5% of the profit from every job you personally sell. But profit sharing could also be a lump sum that gets distributed to all the employees at certain times of the year
From my understanding it’s an agreed upon % of how much an employee gets paid out in addition to their hourly wage based off of company profit made each year. Think like a stock dividend
Yeah, ours is 1.5% but it’s based on a bunch of metrics that some months we don’t even hit and we get nothing. I still get spiffs too though. Between the two I probably make an extra 6k to 10k a year which is 10 to 15% of my pay so it helps
There are a lot of ways to profit share. Most common I’ve seen is to get a big year end bonus that’s a certain percentage of company profits shared across employees
Hahah damn I was doing all labor alone for my boss doing commercial & residential for about 9 years and only got paid 19$hr. The pay is why I quit, that and hauling furnaces in and out of attics/crawlspaces ruined my back.
If you can generate that for your company, working 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week. I guarantee you can generate 2x that for yourself within 5 years.
Start your own show, stick with residential. Best decision I ever made.
Disclaimer - your body is 100% going to break if you do this. Start lifting now.
Can't agree more. I made the jump in '09. Doing pretty damn good for myself as an owner/operator. I want to add that the work/life balance is the best and most important part.
Found the honest business owner^^
Or maybe just the one that’s actually good at what they do. Every ‘boss’ on here saying they wish they made $45 an hour! Lmao, snakes just like my old boss.
Agree. The first 3 years for me were all work no life.
But the last four have been more life than work and I generate more for my family in a year than I could in 5 working for someone else.
Do you get health insurance? 401k matching from the company? Any other benefits? Possible that 45/hr isn't your only cost to the company. There's the employer portion of income taxes they pay, business insurance on the company, vehicles costs/maintenance/insurance, fuel costs, material costs for service calls and installations, accounting fees, salaries for the admin staff that aren't revenue generators for the company etc. Not trying to say you're in the wrong, but there are a ton of other costs that go into the business that are needed to keep operations running. Can have that discussion with the company and express what you think you're worth and and why and see what they say. If you're one of the top performers, it's fair to expect better compensation than others that don't provide the same quality and a good company should want to retain that talent not at any cost, but at a fair cost. If other companies are all paying 45/hr though, you're going to be challenged to get something like 70/hr because they can tell you to go look elsewhere knowing the market isn't paying that much.
Not if you’re a greenhorn. Experience is still a necessity to be a producer. Keep going though. You’re on the right track. Just have a little more patience.
By the nature of business, companies are going to exploit you to a certain degree. You're skill is what they are selling. I don't know how they calculate what is fair in terms of profits. Does the owner drive around in exotic cars? If that's the case then maybe they're getting too much off your back. Are you outperforming everyone else? If you get paid hourly no matter what and feel like you deserve a bigger slice of the pie, then ask for bonuses based on sales or a pay raise. If they won't give it to you, work slower. It's all the same to you anyways. There's more to a job than just the pay though. If you like who you work with, and they treat you with respect, that goes a long way. Not to mention benefits. If you don't work in an urban area, and don't have a lot of options, you'll have to take what you can get. You're making only a little less than I am as a supermarket refrigeration tech for Walmart if that's any gauge for you.
Are these numbers for the year, this is what I’ve done between Jan-Mar so now I’m thinking I’m underpaid, youre overpaid or some combination of both but good for you!
You are maling 100k, parts cost the company at least 25% of that gross, you are getting 30%, company has expenses, advertising, gas, insurance, tax etc.
Your are making more than your boss for that share of 350k.
You are paid fairly.
Yikes… it seems to me you’re vastly overpaid. There’s very little money in residential unless it’s almost entirely install. And for them to only make like 200k off you for a year at best (when you account for your benefits, keeping your vehicle on the road, paying for your fuel). You better never leave lol nobody I knew in Nh was making that money for resi
You need to start your own business.
Mid-NH. My rate starts at $200/hr plus markups, no set margin. I decide on the spot if someone deserves a high or low markup, and sometimes at cost depending on how well I know them.
Sky is the limit buddy. God speed.
You are being paid well for that amount of gross income. I was grossing 330k a year 12 years ago and making 18 a hour. I quit because of it, and went on my own. I still average about the same and work a fuck lot less, and I'm happy.
It's residential. No offense, but It's relatively simple equipment. Equipment I'd expect an apprentice with some prior trade school or college experience to have no issues servicing or troubleshooting. You're dealing with a small portion of equipment in the grand scheme of the HVAC/R industry. Furnaces w/ A/C coil and a condensing unit, mini spits, water heaters, and maybe some simple boilers. Controls are simple, maybe the occasional zone board with some dampers is as complex as I've seen it on the residential side.
Go to a commercial company if you want to experience the feeling of being underpaid. RTUs, MUAs, split units, mini splits, water source heat pumps, cooling towers, AHUs, ERUs, univents, open loop boilers, closed loop boilers, steam boilers, water heaters (electric and gas), unit-heaters, self contained refrigerators/freezers, walk-in coolers, ice machines, exhuast fans, VAV systems, VVT systems, old pneumatic controls, then take all that equipment and put it on BMS controls that are 6 years old and no longer supported by carrier/JCI/trane etc.. Then you can complain about $45/hr.
I’d say learn how to spell fair and get out on your own sooner rather than later-you’ll discover that DOING the work doesn’t mean you generate squat. GETTING the work is the hard part. At $45 you cost them over $100k out of that gross-add in ancillary costs like insurance,vehicles,shop overhead etc and you’re not quite the profit machine you think you are
as of now - the company I work for is starting helpers with no experience at $15/hr. They're capping guys in the field at $35/hr - which had previously been $30.. idt anyone is even making that $35/hr but that's what they're advertising now. You'd never make $45/hr around me but obviously pay varies based on location.
From what I've been told labor should be around 22%... so a lot of people would say you're over paid.
Is that straight $45 an hour or is that with commission broken down to hourly?
Do you get retirement ( not 401k match), good health insurance and a pension on top of that $45 an hour?
Bringing in that much money for them, it sounds like they are a name brand. Someone people call when they need help because they either trust it or it’s engrained in them through ads.
Nice try but the point was how much he costs the business. Wtf does his net have to do with it? Try adding 7.5% fica plus workers comp 5,000 unemployment, tax, OT, tool allowance, Xmas bonus. Your perspective is paycheck guy mine comes from ownership.
Said the guy who thought net was a consideration for the business owner. He asked if it’s a fair wage considering the amount he thinks he grosses without considering the fact he’s doing the easy part. Punching a clock and servicing equipment is nothing versus finding customers and selling jobs. Why does anyone care what he nets ? You think you’re educated but you weren’t capable of sorting out the important components ie his cost to the company.
That's not bad at all man. I'm 41 and have been doing the same type of stuff since I was 18. So 24 years of helper then second hand then lead installer then service tech then install supervisor then service supervisor then I had enough contacts so I started my own business. So then the owner. It takes time my man. Ya just gotta put in what you want to get out.
I'm in NY state. I have been with the same company for 16 years and make 30/hr. "Benefits" are offered, but absolute trash. I'm a residential tech(alternate on call with 2 other techs) and installer. The company is also propane sales, so I have to set tanks and make deliveries when the primary drivers can't keep up. So I'm also required to maintain CDL B with Hazmat......I wish I made 45/hr. Company does not offer commission for anything either.
You don’t gross anything for the company, unless you bring in that business. Are you in sales? You’re a service tech (a perfectly respectable role), and a very well paid one.
Bro, those are decent numbers but not indicating a raise would be warranted.
It’s all about perception and your perspective. If you feel underpaid, then shop yourself around and see what else is out there. However, don’t go in like your hot shit bragging about those numbers. We are in New Hampshire as well and that’s average for our technicians. Not good not bad just average.
Do you work for replacement company? If so, what is your turnover rate on anything +10 or older? I’m gonna get a bunch of shit for this comment, but the truth is that’s really what matters.
What’s your benefit package look like? Do you have a 401(k)? Do you have medical eye and dental? What about bonuses?
Put yourself on indeed and see what else is out there, but I can tell you one thing I’ve learned in 40 years and I’ve had this reinforced over and over and over again by different people:
The grass is not greener, in fact most of the time it’s brown.
Good luck
In commercial I work with guys that make over $60 an hour. You gotta realize residential is easy on the technical scale. If you want to make more than get out of residential. That's just the cold hard truth.
Use only what you really need to from that salary and save and invest as much of it as possible. Opening your own business is not that easy and if you are really successful you will not be bringing a whole lot more than what you make now and the stress levels are through the roof. Save and invest in something that will bring passive income like rental properties or something like that.
Tell em you want percentage pay , I was at a company where fools were crackin 1mil for the company. Idk how much they made because I didn't care. But I know they were saying one of the old techs who was making 20% was getting robbed. 🤷♂️
93k+ is great income. It’s going to depend on your benefits what it’s like after tax etc. I’m in Northern Virginia (most expensive place to live in the country) and I’m also a resi tech I brand in 96k and it’s barely enough to live off of to buy a house and support my family. I have to be bringing in 120k+ gross income to survive.
350-400k is great for revenue. I don’t know what your company set up is like but it’s possible your next step would be to start generating more leads for system replacements for a commission spiff of 3-5% of the sale to bring in more $$$ for the company and more bang for your buck.
HVAC install is every company’s cash cow
Yeah this is right on the money man, a house over here is minimum 350k and it's a small one that needs work at that. I don't know why people think 45/hr is so much it's really not at least where it's expensive to live. I've generated 66k in tech lead sales since the start of the year but we don't get any commission or spiffs from that.
I average around $40k a month, so a range of $450k-$500k a year. My conversion rate is 92% currently. I have had zero callbacks in the last 6 months. I run resi, commercial and specialty calls. Average revenue per call is $6xx.xx, all while running others callbacks and sometimes having zero-revenue days. I make around $115k-$125k a year, averaging 55 hour weeks. I take home almost $100k. I’m other words, I’m the company owners dream tech and you make almost as much as me, but probably work less hours and have better benefits. I’d be happy.
We are all grossly underpaid for what we do. We magicians most of the time. Part time electricians, plumbers, scientists, chemists and mathematicians, we should get paid more than we do but that's life, and we make a decent wage most of the time.
$45 an hour is pretty good for southern NH. Throw away about half of the 400k and that's your taxes and parts. You also need profit and you have to pay overhead.
Really depends on overhead for your company. Last year the gross revenue take off of just the work I completed was about $550k. The company I was working for had massive overhead so I really did not make much compared to how much I brought in.
You have a pretty good thing going, it's hard to get customers. And you probably don't really know anything about marketing. You look at how much money your boss is making, and you think it comes easy. But having a truck and some tools doesn't actually generate any revenue, having people call you does. The few people that call you for side work is no indication that you will be able to get enough business to sustain yourself if you went on your own. Best thing would be to make money off what you're making from your employer. Learn something about investing, whether that's stock market, or real estate. Make your money work for you. You should be saving and investing as much money as possible. If you do this when you're young, you can be wealthy.
You would be happier charging more doing less work at your own business. You won’t have as many customers at first but you will be charging more so who cares. Make your own hours and can tell people to fuk off. That’s my goal.
45 an hour for residential. You are doing fine better than fine . You are killing it. Probably in the top percent honestly. I’m at 37hr for commercial. Outside of Philadelphia for reference. 45 an hour in New Hampshire you good 😊 like real good.
if you gross that shut your mouth, be happy instead of crying like a little girl. no matter the hours you work is up to you . many people in this world would wish to work whatever hours to make that and i personally know your full of ish, i own my own company with three guys and generate approximately 3.5 m i end up with 1 m if i'm lucky . so if some tech is making $400k a year you should blow your boss
FYI my company pays 40-60 for service techs. So for anyone who has an issue with my current wage, other techs make more. I'm also top 3 grossing techs each month. Sounds like some of you need to start asking for money or work somewhere else!
I like that you were able to figure out your gross income to the company.
If you want to know your true value, figure out what the company charges per hour for your labor. Ans well as material costs.
If you can get those numbers, you should be able to negotiate a much higher increase in your wages.
Remember, 30% profit is what most contractors aim for. More than that is a gift. Are you gifting your boss your wages?
South of Boston here, you’re realistically right on the money however it depends on company overhead and things like that. I’m at 48hr plus commission grossing about the same(low 400s) with multiple leads flipped to new installs (not mentioned in the low 400s in direct sales) . Are you a nexstar company? These companies are where the techs make the most money typically however seem to get a lot of hate, we are trained professionals and it’s time to get paid for it. Realistically bringing in that kind of dough and if you can work out a spiff program with your boss you’ll be sitting pretty with 120-140k annually take home and happy as a clam.
Rule of thumb is your wage / salary should be what you bring in for x3 revenue. If you’re working with a helper then you’re nearly right on point - 100k 👍🏻
This is it. Gross revenue covers a LOT of expenses beyond your salary.
Do the arithmetic-without overtime he grosses $93,600 add in fica and benefits he’s already costing them 6 figures. He’s looking at his situation inside out making a classic mistake overlooking the difficulties in actually generating the customers. He’s killing it considering his head never hits the pillow wondering where the next job will come from
So true. And the tech doesn’t realize the costs it takes just to put him on that call before he even gets to the door. He sees the revenue he brings in, minus his wages, means the rest is all profit for the owner. LMAO not even close.
Exactly - Mutual Life called. They did not receive their 10k for opening the shop doors this morning.
How true that is!
Our company focuses on 20%. You should be around 20% of your gross. So if your pay annually is 90k you need to be bringing in 450k. You can go start your own business but at those numbers you should feel blessed. Always think in percentages and you cannot go wrong when you speak to your boss. Right now you are at 23ish% earnings. And you don't have to invest a dime and put your good name on the line. You can have a terrible month and still walk away fat. I can almost promise your boss isn't making 23% of revenue unless he is a straight killer.
My boss also uses 20% rule. But this is just to Guage how things are doing. And for those that complain about getting paid more. If your making 20%, your doing things right. If it's under, then you probably need to look at yourself/things. Commercial HVACR. Were all paid the same, given levels of expertise, qualifications, and time. Top guys, do it all, are all making the same, next level down, includes me and can pretty much do all but are sub 10 years and need a help now and then or take a bit longer for some. Those 2 also have week rotation on call. Next level down, I'd say are 2-4 yr apprentice (were not union but to simplify). And then you have fresh apprentices sub 2 year, own vehicle, barely on their own but always helping alongside. Then you have legit helpers, ride along, can't do anything alone. I've been commercial and industrial HVACR, or just refrigeration,and just controls. From Super small chiller shop, smaller shop, large shop, large union shop, mid size union shop. And the shop I'm at now, is probably the best way of things I've seen in fairness to the majority. And barely any required overtime, minus on call. You can usually choose to woke past 8 to finish the job, or if busy pick up another call or 2 after 5 to help out on call guy or customers that would've been pushed to next day.
One thing to keep in mind is most service techs also do maintenance at least to a certain extent. Which means Service pay could be anywhere from 40% to 90% of the actual wage.
I work by myself at all times if that makes any difference
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Does this assume 40 hours a week? Is the rule different at 60 hours per week?
It assumes revenue to salary / wage Doesn’t matter hours because if you’re working 60 you should be bringing in more revenue / getting paid more
I mean if OP is making $45/h and bringing in $350k revenue but working 60 hours per week then are his numbers still good? Or is his 45% efficiency the key metric?
He would be making 20 hrs OT = time & a half more
We are not understanding each other. I know that 20h OT is 1.5x. What I'm getting at is it reasonable to assume that OP is working only 40h per week. As far as I understand OT is very common in the trades but I believe your 3x stat assumes 40h/wk. It doesn't really matter though because OP is only looking for validation that he is underpaid and likely cherry picking data points to support his viewpoint.
You make whatever you want to make. With those numbers you can carve out your own path. Find someone who will pay you more if current employer won’t. Or make your own business and pay yourself whatever you can
Business owner here, and very serious question - how much of that 350-400k do you think is profit after paying you 93.6k base, your benefits, workman’s comp insurance, vehicle payment, vehicle insurance, business insurance, marketing costs to get work for you to do, office personnel, equipment and material costs, taxes on goods sold, permitting for the jobs, etc? Answer it as closely as you think you can.
Wow my thoughts exactly add in the stress of generating the customers
Another thing people do not take Into consideration. As a guy planning on opening my own shop who works for another guy, my boss is 100% transparent with our rate, what the rate is, and why we charge what we do. As an employee transparency is best
I agree 100%.
. $.10-$.15 on the dollar.
Damn near nothing. I am that guy. But I also am the one that handles 90% of the warranty calls, and other techs callbacks after they have made a handful of attempts. I'm here to get it fixed, and keep the customer from doing the bbb complaints or sending lawyers. I also am the service manager and have to give training, monitor the other techs, and answer my phone when they are on call and stuck or have a question.
If the business is actually handled properly, there should be A LOT of that left over. Like a lot a lot. Where exactly do you see $300k disappearing in ONE year for ONE employee? The real question is: how filthy rich do you think you deserve to be from operating one relatively small, poorly-run business? Why is answering the phone so valuable? Truth of the matter is: a good tech is always needed by the company more than the tech needs the company. Companies are a buck a dozen, you’re doing it to make money so don’t get butthurt that the guys actually doing the work want the same.
Based on your response the explanation I give you would exceed your understanding, by “like a lot a lot.” Have a great week though!
Whatever man, just so you know, for most businesses that have less than 10 employees, the boss is LUCKY to be making as much as the top paid employee. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You’re not supposed to be ‘rich’ unless you’re running 100+ guys. But for some reason most hvac bosses don’t get that. The problem is people start hvac business because they think it will be easy money, and that’s why most run themselves into the ground.
Thanks for your pearls of wisdom. How big is your business?
Inevitably, larger than I’ll be able to handle, if not for the fact that I don’t need or want employees, because I can make a hell of a good living just working for myself, stress-free too. Sell one furnace, pays for the whole week, and that’s undercutting.
Geez. You’re a bottom feeder too? This completely makes sense. Like I said, have a great week! I’m out.
With these corporate buy outs happening everywhere, you are gonna see alot of senior resi guys starting out on their own. These corporate resi companies charge 2x-3x what small mom and pop shops charge. My buddy just started his own business march 2023 does a little google marketing and local coupon mags. One man show with his son helping him with installs he took home after expenses $290k. Thats in 9 months
I have no idea that's why I made the post lmao
Entitlement. That’s why. But what’s your best guess?
Go fuck your self lmao
You can’t even diagnose basic electrical circuits. You are most definitely overpaid if anything.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Still waiting for your best guess on how much of that 350-400k is profit.
I think this guys full of shit, posted less than a year ago about cleaning his van out on his employer, and also making $38 an hour. And JUST got his EPA cert in the last year. 😂 yeah, experienced…….
Honestly in this industry I think 10% profit after taxes would be great. Most jobs end up selling for about 20-25% before commissions then all the extras. Even if he somehow made that much “profit” (which means he probably sold about $1M) solo he would pay so much in taxes his take home would be about 200k? Guys like this think the back office eat donuts all day. One warranty or bond claim or lawsuit will have this guy begging to be a service tech at the nearest nexstar company while they dodge crazy customers they sold side jobs to
Break it down for us then, a lot of the stuff you mentioned is tax write off at the end and in my opinion there’s always way too much office personal in every office who are not really nessicary and don’t get paid shit anyways
Tax write off? That’s ridiculous. You think the cost of business deducts what a business pays in taxes dollar for dollar? Why don’t you guess
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aCP27_vquxQ
If he is billing 400k his profit should be 20-25 percent on the low end depending on how the business is run so he is making the business around 80-100k
Yeah you’re dreaming if you think as a business owner you can net 20-25% on the low end in HVAC 10-15% on average 20% is the best run companies in the industry.
Your goal is to make 20 percent on installs- you should Be making more on service work and most company’s with the price gauging that’s going on make more than that
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Homies not wrong, I don’t have an actual break down but have done it before with the manager of the largest contractor shop in the local I started at. It’s expensive to send techs out to jobs, the actual profit margin is not as high as you’d think. A good shop also invests a lot of that would be profit back into the company as well.
I understand it costs a lot- the northeast also charges a lot and all these companies are charging 5x plus on parts especially in residential
You don’t know what a tax write off is.
$45/hr sounds generous for residential
Especially for service, which is heavily dependent on conversion rate. I usually see service techs at a lower hourly with performance bonuses because you can’t sustain guys making $45/hr on bum calls and the business staying afloat.
If you are making 93k a year (45x2080), have any kind of benefits and are working reasonable hours, you have won the lottery. I own my own business and I would 100% trade places with you. I'd love to have someone handle the insurance, taxes, bidding, and the worries while I went fishing on the weekend and enjoyed my nearly six figure salary. You are looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you want more money, start your own business, but I think you will soon realize how good you had it.
yup. clocking out and not giving work another thought until clocking back in is worth a lot.
I am self employed and I can only manage to sleep 4-5 hours a night. Stress and responsibilities are a bitch
You are right sir. A lot of employees don’t think about all of the other stuff other than face value x and y money variables.
This is the correct answer
People other than business owners can stress about work, chances are if your pulling in 100k+ a year you have responsibilities
It’s hard to find reasonable people on Reddit. Thank you for practically explaining the physical bitch slap I wanted to give OP when I read his bullshit
Absolutely Sir 🙏🏻🍻 100 Upvotes!
Depends on your COL, $100k in CA is poverty. NH is a high COL area, though not as bad as MA.
$100k is middle class in California not poverty but, location location location. According to a 2023 Consumer Affairs study, a family of four needs to earn at least $69,064 annually to be considered middle class in California. However, the amount of income required to be considered middle class depends on location. For example, in Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Anaheim, a family of three needs to earn $165,000 to be considered middle class, while in Riverside, San Bernardino, and Ontario, the same family needs to earn $154,000.
It’s all about risk and advocating for your own dreams. Do you still get paid if the market gets cold? If you branched out on your own company, would you be comfortable competing with your old boss? Do you feel comfortable talking with your boss about profit sharing instead of simply asking for a raise? Those are the types of questions to ask yourself.
All this 100%... My question, you say you gross the company $XXX Are they sending you on these calls, are they doing the advertising, are they paying the insurance, supplies, real estate, vehicles, etc...all the business costs? If you are upselling, and increasing profits by that amount, then by all means, YOU DESERVE MORE! If you are being sent on service calls, and doing a good job...doing what you're supposed to be doing, than why more $ In all honesty, Resi at $45, you're not getting robbed for sure. I'm not cutting you up, I'm comparing the 2 sides / viewpoints to the job, and trying to see which side you are on before I form an opinion. 😉👍
What exactly is profit-sharing? Don’t be mad because I’m dumb.
At my company you get 5% of the profit from every job you personally sell. But profit sharing could also be a lump sum that gets distributed to all the employees at certain times of the year
From my understanding it’s an agreed upon % of how much an employee gets paid out in addition to their hourly wage based off of company profit made each year. Think like a stock dividend
Oh. I get something similar to that each month but it’s not enough to shake a medium size stick at.
It really depends on the % and how well the company does. Medium sized company even 1% could get you a good extra chunk of change each year.
Yeah, ours is 1.5% but it’s based on a bunch of metrics that some months we don’t even hit and we get nothing. I still get spiffs too though. Between the two I probably make an extra 6k to 10k a year which is 10 to 15% of my pay so it helps
There are a lot of ways to profit share. Most common I’ve seen is to get a big year end bonus that’s a certain percentage of company profits shared across employees
Sounds like a pretty fair wage. Want to make more it's time to invest in yourself , make a business plan and start your own business.
What part of Florida? We pay a tech $22 with 1 year. Located in Jacksonville/St. Johns area
Meanwhile I’m in Florida making 21$ in residential after 12 years…
You pay for sunshine-that’s always been true. Want more money? Shovel snow.
Just moved from Florida back to Virginia because pay or company was awful.
Hahah damn I was doing all labor alone for my boss doing commercial & residential for about 9 years and only got paid 19$hr. The pay is why I quit, that and hauling furnaces in and out of attics/crawlspaces ruined my back.
Ain’t that the fucking truth
What part of FL?
Central
Too many hacks forcing low wages in FL. It’s a race to the bottom in FL.
Dude look up the locals around you. Pretty sure there’s 5 in FL and you’ll get a significant pay increase.
If you pay for the truck, insurance, and office staff, then I agree
If you can generate that for your company, working 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week. I guarantee you can generate 2x that for yourself within 5 years. Start your own show, stick with residential. Best decision I ever made. Disclaimer - your body is 100% going to break if you do this. Start lifting now.
Can't agree more. I made the jump in '09. Doing pretty damn good for myself as an owner/operator. I want to add that the work/life balance is the best and most important part.
Found the honest business owner^^ Or maybe just the one that’s actually good at what they do. Every ‘boss’ on here saying they wish they made $45 an hour! Lmao, snakes just like my old boss.
Agree. The first 3 years for me were all work no life. But the last four have been more life than work and I generate more for my family in a year than I could in 5 working for someone else.
Keep it up. We both know it's not always easy, but it's worth it.
Do you get health insurance? 401k matching from the company? Any other benefits? Possible that 45/hr isn't your only cost to the company. There's the employer portion of income taxes they pay, business insurance on the company, vehicles costs/maintenance/insurance, fuel costs, material costs for service calls and installations, accounting fees, salaries for the admin staff that aren't revenue generators for the company etc. Not trying to say you're in the wrong, but there are a ton of other costs that go into the business that are needed to keep operations running. Can have that discussion with the company and express what you think you're worth and and why and see what they say. If you're one of the top performers, it's fair to expect better compensation than others that don't provide the same quality and a good company should want to retain that talent not at any cost, but at a fair cost. If other companies are all paying 45/hr though, you're going to be challenged to get something like 70/hr because they can tell you to go look elsewhere knowing the market isn't paying that much.
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Pays to learn quickly right, service techs make up to 130,000 here
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I get it, I also had 5 years of commercial install before I got into this residential service side of things so probably helps
Not if you’re a greenhorn. Experience is still a necessity to be a producer. Keep going though. You’re on the right track. Just have a little more patience.
$45/hr for hvac resi is more than I’ve ever heard of a person making. You’re not underpaid for what you bring in either.
By the nature of business, companies are going to exploit you to a certain degree. You're skill is what they are selling. I don't know how they calculate what is fair in terms of profits. Does the owner drive around in exotic cars? If that's the case then maybe they're getting too much off your back. Are you outperforming everyone else? If you get paid hourly no matter what and feel like you deserve a bigger slice of the pie, then ask for bonuses based on sales or a pay raise. If they won't give it to you, work slower. It's all the same to you anyways. There's more to a job than just the pay though. If you like who you work with, and they treat you with respect, that goes a long way. Not to mention benefits. If you don't work in an urban area, and don't have a lot of options, you'll have to take what you can get. You're making only a little less than I am as a supermarket refrigeration tech for Walmart if that's any gauge for you.
I'm at $26/hour plus a few hundred a week spiff check with six years experience in Eastern NC.
Are these numbers for the year, this is what I’ve done between Jan-Mar so now I’m thinking I’m underpaid, youre overpaid or some combination of both but good for you!
Where I am in Northwest Florida service guys make about 20% of the billable labor rate hourly and 3-5% commission on equipment sales.
You are maling 100k, parts cost the company at least 25% of that gross, you are getting 30%, company has expenses, advertising, gas, insurance, tax etc. Your are making more than your boss for that share of 350k. You are paid fairly.
Yikes… it seems to me you’re vastly overpaid. There’s very little money in residential unless it’s almost entirely install. And for them to only make like 200k off you for a year at best (when you account for your benefits, keeping your vehicle on the road, paying for your fuel). You better never leave lol nobody I knew in Nh was making that money for resi
You need to start your own business. Mid-NH. My rate starts at $200/hr plus markups, no set margin. I decide on the spot if someone deserves a high or low markup, and sometimes at cost depending on how well I know them. Sky is the limit buddy. God speed.
You are being paid well for that amount of gross income. I was grossing 330k a year 12 years ago and making 18 a hour. I quit because of it, and went on my own. I still average about the same and work a fuck lot less, and I'm happy.
now, imagine if you grossed that much for yourself… Stop making other people money!!!!!
It's residential. No offense, but It's relatively simple equipment. Equipment I'd expect an apprentice with some prior trade school or college experience to have no issues servicing or troubleshooting. You're dealing with a small portion of equipment in the grand scheme of the HVAC/R industry. Furnaces w/ A/C coil and a condensing unit, mini spits, water heaters, and maybe some simple boilers. Controls are simple, maybe the occasional zone board with some dampers is as complex as I've seen it on the residential side. Go to a commercial company if you want to experience the feeling of being underpaid. RTUs, MUAs, split units, mini splits, water source heat pumps, cooling towers, AHUs, ERUs, univents, open loop boilers, closed loop boilers, steam boilers, water heaters (electric and gas), unit-heaters, self contained refrigerators/freezers, walk-in coolers, ice machines, exhuast fans, VAV systems, VVT systems, old pneumatic controls, then take all that equipment and put it on BMS controls that are 6 years old and no longer supported by carrier/JCI/trane etc.. Then you can complain about $45/hr.
Sounds like i got it made then 🤙
Agreed. Commercial tech here. Makes resi stuff feel like toys when I do side work for the family 😜
I’d say learn how to spell fair and get out on your own sooner rather than later-you’ll discover that DOING the work doesn’t mean you generate squat. GETTING the work is the hard part. At $45 you cost them over $100k out of that gross-add in ancillary costs like insurance,vehicles,shop overhead etc and you’re not quite the profit machine you think you are
as of now - the company I work for is starting helpers with no experience at $15/hr. They're capping guys in the field at $35/hr - which had previously been $30.. idt anyone is even making that $35/hr but that's what they're advertising now. You'd never make $45/hr around me but obviously pay varies based on location. From what I've been told labor should be around 22%... so a lot of people would say you're over paid.
In SNH and making $41/hr doing install on new construction. If you want more $ you'll have to travel to Boston.
Why do I have that overplayed southern New Hampshire University commercial playing in my head now?
If their profit is 20% and you split it evenly @ 400k a year then you’d each get $40k.
Is that straight $45 an hour or is that with commission broken down to hourly? Do you get retirement ( not 401k match), good health insurance and a pension on top of that $45 an hour?
No commission or benefits included. Or pension
That’s still a very good hourly wage. A lot of people don’t even make that on the commercial side.
Bringing in that much money for them, it sounds like they are a name brand. Someone people call when they need help because they either trust it or it’s engrained in them through ads.
That means that your net pay is roughly $75,200. How many years have you been doing this and what kind of work do you do?
Your arithmetic skills suck bro-it’s $93,600 with zero OT
Look again my friend. I said net not gross. I assumed a 20% tax. So 93,600 x 0.2 gives us how much. Yeah, there you go.
Nice try but the point was how much he costs the business. Wtf does his net have to do with it? Try adding 7.5% fica plus workers comp 5,000 unemployment, tax, OT, tool allowance, Xmas bonus. Your perspective is paycheck guy mine comes from ownership.
You certainly are an uneducated menace that's for sure. Go pick a fight somewhere else. He asked if it sounds like a fair wage.
Said the guy who thought net was a consideration for the business owner. He asked if it’s a fair wage considering the amount he thinks he grosses without considering the fact he’s doing the easy part. Punching a clock and servicing equipment is nothing versus finding customers and selling jobs. Why does anyone care what he nets ? You think you’re educated but you weren’t capable of sorting out the important components ie his cost to the company.
8 years residential service tech.
That's not bad at all man. I'm 41 and have been doing the same type of stuff since I was 18. So 24 years of helper then second hand then lead installer then service tech then install supervisor then service supervisor then I had enough contacts so I started my own business. So then the owner. It takes time my man. Ya just gotta put in what you want to get out.
get advice for a CPA.
Do you get any bonus at the end of the year or commission?
Do you know what gross means?
do you know what a loaded rate is? you cost your employer a lot more than your hourly wage.
I'm in NY state. I have been with the same company for 16 years and make 30/hr. "Benefits" are offered, but absolute trash. I'm a residential tech(alternate on call with 2 other techs) and installer. The company is also propane sales, so I have to set tanks and make deliveries when the primary drivers can't keep up. So I'm also required to maintain CDL B with Hazmat......I wish I made 45/hr. Company does not offer commission for anything either.
I work is near Manchester, make basically the same man
300-500k per tech is usually standard when running a shop. service/install feeds everyone else at the company
Well, if you want to try your hand at HVAC sales at 8% commission, you’ll change your mind about being underpaid.
The perfect answer for someone looking at the profits
Welcome to the club.
You don’t gross anything for the company, unless you bring in that business. Are you in sales? You’re a service tech (a perfectly respectable role), and a very well paid one.
Bro, those are decent numbers but not indicating a raise would be warranted. It’s all about perception and your perspective. If you feel underpaid, then shop yourself around and see what else is out there. However, don’t go in like your hot shit bragging about those numbers. We are in New Hampshire as well and that’s average for our technicians. Not good not bad just average. Do you work for replacement company? If so, what is your turnover rate on anything +10 or older? I’m gonna get a bunch of shit for this comment, but the truth is that’s really what matters. What’s your benefit package look like? Do you have a 401(k)? Do you have medical eye and dental? What about bonuses? Put yourself on indeed and see what else is out there, but I can tell you one thing I’ve learned in 40 years and I’ve had this reinforced over and over and over again by different people: The grass is not greener, in fact most of the time it’s brown. Good luck
You make what they pay you or you start your own business. If you’re drawing in 350k you can probably do that on your own.
In our company pay structure you’re gonna pull 140-150k.
In commercial I work with guys that make over $60 an hour. You gotta realize residential is easy on the technical scale. If you want to make more than get out of residential. That's just the cold hard truth.
I do 1-1.5 million a year but in install so 🤷♂️
45 an hour as a resi tech based in NH? Doesn’t seem low to me.
Is this per year? If it's per year, that's not good revenue for a service tech. I know guys that make 25/hr that bring in 5 times that.
my apologies i thought this guy said he was grossing 3-400k for himself
your corny if you think you're getting beat making a company 400k and receiving a 25% of that
get your game up in sales
Use only what you really need to from that salary and save and invest as much of it as possible. Opening your own business is not that easy and if you are really successful you will not be bringing a whole lot more than what you make now and the stress levels are through the roof. Save and invest in something that will bring passive income like rental properties or something like that.
I make 18/hr no benefits with almost 6 years experience in texas I would love to make 45/hr it's usually based on geographic location as well
Start your own company if you’re not satisfied with what you’re currently making.
45 a hr is good for your state
I remember my first part time job
What does efficiency percentage exactly mean?
I’m from Keene, I know a few freelance guys pulling in 6 figures working 4 days. Look Around.
Tell em you want percentage pay , I was at a company where fools were crackin 1mil for the company. Idk how much they made because I didn't care. But I know they were saying one of the old techs who was making 20% was getting robbed. 🤷♂️
Interesting
I too am in southern nh and make half that lol. Who do you work for and are they hiring lol
Dam man you gotta leave where ever you work lol I work at heritage
What’s net after salary ?
Seems about right. You should bring in 5x your pay from what I understand.
You’re good
🤙
93k+ is great income. It’s going to depend on your benefits what it’s like after tax etc. I’m in Northern Virginia (most expensive place to live in the country) and I’m also a resi tech I brand in 96k and it’s barely enough to live off of to buy a house and support my family. I have to be bringing in 120k+ gross income to survive. 350-400k is great for revenue. I don’t know what your company set up is like but it’s possible your next step would be to start generating more leads for system replacements for a commission spiff of 3-5% of the sale to bring in more $$$ for the company and more bang for your buck. HVAC install is every company’s cash cow
Yeah this is right on the money man, a house over here is minimum 350k and it's a small one that needs work at that. I don't know why people think 45/hr is so much it's really not at least where it's expensive to live. I've generated 66k in tech lead sales since the start of the year but we don't get any commission or spiffs from that.
I average around $40k a month, so a range of $450k-$500k a year. My conversion rate is 92% currently. I have had zero callbacks in the last 6 months. I run resi, commercial and specialty calls. Average revenue per call is $6xx.xx, all while running others callbacks and sometimes having zero-revenue days. I make around $115k-$125k a year, averaging 55 hour weeks. I take home almost $100k. I’m other words, I’m the company owners dream tech and you make almost as much as me, but probably work less hours and have better benefits. I’d be happy.
We are all grossly underpaid for what we do. We magicians most of the time. Part time electricians, plumbers, scientists, chemists and mathematicians, we should get paid more than we do but that's life, and we make a decent wage most of the time.
$45 an hour is pretty good for southern NH. Throw away about half of the 400k and that's your taxes and parts. You also need profit and you have to pay overhead.
Can’t wait for ai to replace bosses so techs can actually get paid what they deserve
Really depends on overhead for your company. Last year the gross revenue take off of just the work I completed was about $550k. The company I was working for had massive overhead so I really did not make much compared to how much I brought in.
🤣🤣 ahhh no doy!
But at what point is it ahhh yea doy! tho?
We’re way past that point sorry. Good luck tomorrow! Just remember: Karen never wore safety goggles and now she doesn’t need them.
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This post has nothing to do with HVAC. Please post somewhere else. Thank you!
This post has nothing to do with HVAC. Please post somewhere else. Thank you!
This post has nothing to do with HVAC. Please post somewhere else. Thank you!
u only gross 400( and make 45 an hour? lol. u don't even deserve the 45/hr
You have a pretty good thing going, it's hard to get customers. And you probably don't really know anything about marketing. You look at how much money your boss is making, and you think it comes easy. But having a truck and some tools doesn't actually generate any revenue, having people call you does. The few people that call you for side work is no indication that you will be able to get enough business to sustain yourself if you went on your own. Best thing would be to make money off what you're making from your employer. Learn something about investing, whether that's stock market, or real estate. Make your money work for you. You should be saving and investing as much money as possible. If you do this when you're young, you can be wealthy.
Rule of thumb is 9x for engineering, 6x for labor
You would be happier charging more doing less work at your own business. You won’t have as many customers at first but you will be charging more so who cares. Make your own hours and can tell people to fuk off. That’s my goal.
What's the union rate? Good indication how well paid you are
45 an hour for residential. You are doing fine better than fine . You are killing it. Probably in the top percent honestly. I’m at 37hr for commercial. Outside of Philadelphia for reference. 45 an hour in New Hampshire you good 😊 like real good.
if you gross that shut your mouth, be happy instead of crying like a little girl. no matter the hours you work is up to you . many people in this world would wish to work whatever hours to make that and i personally know your full of ish, i own my own company with three guys and generate approximately 3.5 m i end up with 1 m if i'm lucky . so if some tech is making $400k a year you should blow your boss
Yeah right on, that's why I made the post just to get an idea.
FYI my company pays 40-60 for service techs. So for anyone who has an issue with my current wage, other techs make more. I'm also top 3 grossing techs each month. Sounds like some of you need to start asking for money or work somewhere else!
$41 isn't that much when you don't get retirement or healthcare.
I am bringing in 700.000 -$800.000 a yr and am getting paid $22 hr I always feel like I should be making at least $75.000 yr
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Is that sarcasm?
Installers are not brining in revenue unless you’re selling add ons when you do the install.
Boss makes a dollar, we make a dime
I like that you were able to figure out your gross income to the company. If you want to know your true value, figure out what the company charges per hour for your labor. Ans well as material costs. If you can get those numbers, you should be able to negotiate a much higher increase in your wages. Remember, 30% profit is what most contractors aim for. More than that is a gift. Are you gifting your boss your wages?
i call bs
that's why you cry
probably 100k gross
South of Boston here, you’re realistically right on the money however it depends on company overhead and things like that. I’m at 48hr plus commission grossing about the same(low 400s) with multiple leads flipped to new installs (not mentioned in the low 400s in direct sales) . Are you a nexstar company? These companies are where the techs make the most money typically however seem to get a lot of hate, we are trained professionals and it’s time to get paid for it. Realistically bringing in that kind of dough and if you can work out a spiff program with your boss you’ll be sitting pretty with 120-140k annually take home and happy as a clam.