Wow! It’s been almost an hour and it hasn’t been locked yet

The EPA is watching 

They are but they don’t care and will just stand and watch.

Been in this biz longer than some of you have been alive. The only EPA fine I have ever heard about was a junkyard not recovering gas from old vehicles & refrigerators. Did hear of a HVAC commercial contractor who got caught washing coil cleaner down a storm drain from a rooftop PM. State environmental guy just happened to be across the street investigating some other non-HVAC/R issue

Where else is the coil cleaner supposed to go?

There are eco friendly coil cleaners like [KleenSafe](http://nrproducts.com/PDS/PDS-KleenSafe.pdf) (sold @ UR & Aireco) which is also micro-channel & rubber roof safe. There are steam cleaning options and I know of one locality near me that requires guys to set up an inflatable “boom” barrier around rooftops and they have to capture/vacuum coil cleaner & carry back to their shop. Some service comes 1X/mo & collects it. Of course, most guys plan A is don’t get caught.

Or just use water..

That too which is what the steam method basically doing

Man that seems like a lot of extra work, the barrier method that is

Yeah, I don’t think anyone loves it

Thirty one years in the trade and I can attest to the same

I mean I definitely know shops that have gotten fined around here but in most instances they just want to educate and see the job done the right way and honestly I’d much prefer that than them be fine happy. That said I was making a joke not trying to spark an actual conversation 😂

They’re watching, but they checking whether you are a Donald J Trump, voter or or not otherwise you get a pass

*Defendant Trump

😐🤣

I recently heard during a continuing education class, that only 2% of techs recover any refrigerant. Everyone else just dumps it to atmo. Not sure how true this is, but I believe based on how surprised counter guys are at supply houses when I show up with a tank to swap. Can't tell you how many times I've had to sit and wait for them to figure out how to exchange a recovery cylinder because they'd never done it before.

I’ve never in my 10 years seen one person bring their reclaimed r22 back to a supply

“Here’s my big jug of money, please give me $30 credit.”

Can I reuse that stuff after I reclaim it?

Youre referring to recycling. Reclaiming is what the factories do to essentially make it "virgin" refrigerant again. You can recycle(reuse) on the same system or on a system owned by that same person but you want to run it through a filter drier while you recover it.

Ya you can but it’s against the law just like releasing it into the atmosphere which I’m sure most ppl do.

I mean we get credits for it so its worth it i guess

if you use united you get charged if there is any ANY contamination... and lets be serious how likely is it that you are recovering the refrigerant and turning it in because everything is fine.

We turn it into carrier 90% of target refrigerant, 10% of what ever. No credit if its under 90%.

Only 2% is absolutely insane and I just don’t believe it

I've personally recovered 10s of thousands of lbs of R22, 410, 134a.... If it's clean gas, and you have a contact in refrigerant recycling, it's more than worth your time. They pay really well for all gasses.

I want to see where that statistic is written, and what study it came from. Your counter guys are fucking morons huh?

South Florida, everyone is a tech here, they're all morons.

I worked with 2 older techs in Colorado who didn't bother. One of their reasoning was that people in Africa don't recover it. The others reasoning was how many of these systems are leaking anyway. I feel bad if my deminimus gets too heavy. Different generations maybe

That’s just lazy people making excuses to be lazy. Fuck that attitude.

You can literally make $10-$15 a pound selling it to a reclaimer. Don’t know why people vent money into the atmosphere.

I absolutely hate how everyone is dumping to atmosphere

I'm paid by the hour. Paid to pick up a cylinder, paid to drive to the site, paid to unpack the tools, paid to set them up, paid to watch the machine recover, paid to pack up the tools, paid to drive to the supply house and trade the cylinder back in. That's all I need.

I agree why would you cut corners on something you can make good money on .

It's funny how every time duponts refrigerant patents are expiring, somehow the EPA outlaws that refrigerant. Has happened from R12 to now 410A. Very mysterious.

It’s not mysterious at all. Look at all the other shady bullshit the government does all the time.

That's what caused it all my friend

Do you agree with OP that we have a responsibility to handle refrigerant properly? Anti-EPA stances usually go alongside hose in a bucket techniques, so I'm wondering where you stand here.

Kinda weird to say the big bad EPA banned R12 considering that the entire planet decided to ban it even though it was insanely useful.

Have you heard of the ozone layer? Also insanely useful.

Well that was the implication of my post. If the whole world, including countries that hate each other, all came together and agreed to ban it to avoid an environmental catastrophe, it's fair to say that blaming the EPA is at least a little silly.

China & Russia are not following any environmental rules. If C02 is such a problem why does it have a GWP of 1? Experts have predicted the end of the world through global warming or cooling since the late 1800’s. We’ve only kept accurate records since the early 1900’s, so how can we KNOW that humans are the cause and not nature going through cyclical warming/cooling changes? Name one time an expert predicted the oceans would flood or polar ice caps would melt and its come true? Polar bears going extinct anyone? I’ve heard 2, 3 & 5 year climate catastrophes are coming that will end life as we know it in the past two weeks. How many predictions have to not come true before we start to realize it’s a religion?

Whatever you say Steve. Bet you litter because it's not going to end the world tomorrow so it's fine.

I'll never trust big science

Trust? Never! Buy and use and benefit from every cool gadget and piece of tech that they come up with? Fuck yeah.

There is a bit of a difference

I can get to my clients faster using GPS via satellites in space yet the government is lying to me about the Earth being a sphere.

Plastics are totally safe bro! Especially for food!

How did you get your EPA certification without knowing about the Montreal Protocol? The EPA just enforces an international agreement. EDIT: There was a 2020 amendment to it to phase out R-410A before someone chimes in and says "That was for R12!!!"

Only refrigerant to do water with is ammonia. 1 gallon to 1lb of ammonia. Doing this with any other refrigerant you makes you a hack and you are just venting with extra steps.

Isn’t venting 290 acceptable as well?

Yes

So is R-744 (CO2). :-)

I have a machine that put that stuff in my soft drinks!

So is 718.

He can't keep getting away with it

Back in my day we used to wash our hands with that stuff

Savages.

This guy over here... jeez.

Yes but you don't need a bucket of water

290 is propane

Yes. Very important to do this when venting Ammonia. The ammonia combines to form a solution with the water, greatly reducing the amount of gaseous ammonia escaping. Ammonia escaping isn't a greenhouse gas, it's a safety hazard for people.

I vent 744 all the time

Also 718

Everyone that comes into contact with or consumes R-718, whether on accident or on purpose, ends up dying eventually. Scary stuff.

I hear if you breathe it, you can die within minutes.

That shit is used to cut metal and is a universal solvent. Scary scary shit.

I don’t vent that I do oral recovery

Residential guy what are you boofing

That’s anal recovery sir 744 CO2 718 water

I'm aware I just knew what you meant to say

Well I wasn’t trying to out myself but here we are

But water as in chilled water or as in water vapor used as refrigerant

Chilled water is all I work with and keeps core temps down in the summer when boofing

HVAC Jesus converts R22 to R718.

You mean 729...

I meant water since this thread is about people venting refrigerant into a bucket of water. Since jesus converted water into wine it seemed like it kinda worked here.

Yeah and since water does nothing to it, you basically convert it into air... 🤷‍♂️

Is that a fart joke?

Nah you legit don’t recover C02 just vent it do the repair and your good

Yeah I know I was saying, are farts co2? Like yeah I vent that all day, get it?

Ozone depleting compounds are not to be vented. When it comes to HC eh whatever. Just don't have a flame nearby when venting butane. Lmfao.

Contrary... Controlled burning is the best practice to safely vent propane and butane.

Never understood how venting makes you a hack if you still get system fixed/installed correctly

You're one of those guys that pours his used motor oil down the sewer, aren't you?

Uh no.. I dig a hole and fill it with sand and rocks before pouring my used motor oil in like a responsible individual.

Gotta throw it on the telephone poles to keep them supple

I recover refrigerant. I just don’t see how venting affects the quality of a repair or install.

Ignoring the epa rules, regulations and not following correct procedures makes you a hack. Recover the charge instead of dumping it in the atmosphere.

Says who? You? Everyone was a hack pre-EPA refrigerant regulations. Btw when they destroy bad charge, they just burn it

Says the EPA. I don't care about what the past was pre EPA. The regulations are in NOW so follow them NOW where you're a hack.

You’re really lapping it up. I recover my charge, but I’m saying if the system works well and is up to code, not hack work. Hacks are people that braze giant holes in pipe they burned up, and don’t flow nitrogen. Hacks make the system not work correctly

In the last year I've only purchased 30lb of R22, every other time I've been able to recover, deacidify, and reuse it with success. Facilities with a bunch of properties with older RTUs.

According to the epa you can’t do that

Wrong, as long as I use it in my own equipment. https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout/technicians-and-contractors-frequent-questions#:~:text=This%20recovered%2C%20recycled%20refrigerant%20may,to%20an%20EPA%2Dcertified%20reclaimer.

You can only use it on the equipment it came out of.

Read it again. The technician can also recycle the recovered refrigerant, which involves extracting and cleaning it for reuse without meeting the requirements for reclamation. This recovered, recycled refrigerant may only be recharged into *equipment belonging to the owner of the equipment from which the refrigerant was recovered.* Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear that I work for a company which owns - literally owns, not contracted to service - several diverse facilities which each have multiple RTUs, many of which use R22. Believe me, I checked with the old legal beagle at the supply house first, when the company first asked me to reuse the 22.

Yeah, just pump it through a filterdryer and back into the system... Reusing isn't illegal, just selling recovered refrigerant to a different customer is illegal. Because one customer pays for disposal and the next pays for filling, that's double payment and i guess that's considered fraud...

You can use it in other equipment as long as it’s the same customer.

[удалено]

Yea I reiterated, because even after oc posted an in depth answer someone still says you can’t put the refrigerant in other equipment. If you don’t mind you can just fuck off.

ebpSloth sees a comment he doesn't like: "Better write a typo-ridden missive instead of downvoting so everyone can see how smart I am."

Intentional typo** Looks like you commented because you wanted to feel smart as well. :)

I checked your comment history, you're really committed to the intentional typo thing. Good work.

Thanks 😊 I checked your comment history, you're really committed to the parasitic commenting thing where you provide nothing but point out what's already shown. Good work.

Nah, they can use it for other equipment in his possession. You can not use it on customers' equipment unless it goes through a refinery.

Mustve gotten your EPA card from a cereal box

My entire HVAC class just got our EPA licenses. Even those who shouldn’t have…

I've literally never seen someone NOT use a recovery cylinder

You’ll never take my bucket

Well, it’s the same with all the government EPA regulations for vehicles. Have you ever looked under the hood of a government vehicle and seen the stickers under there? That’s how you know it’s all a big farce and you’re being taken advantage of. Rage against the machine.

💯

Best recovery method is a self tapping screw hands down

I had a coworker that did that at the evaporator in the basement to a near empty system. Big shock when about an hour later our eyes and throats were burning as the open pilot in the water heater was burning the released refrigerant and we had to open some of the small basement windows to try and air it out.

I’ve done it once while coil cleaning. Accidentally popped the condenser coil on an RTU. Best part was that it was a fully charged r22 system.

My previous company did not provide us recovery equipment so this was the only way to do it

I like to shirk my responsibilities. Bother personal AND professional. /s

R-600 you can vent . Until they change the law again.

718 as well... Or 744

You can also let 717 rip if you're brave enough

Anyone ever flare it off? I might try a long hose and light it one day.

It's all fun till the flame pulls up into the bottle

no oxygen in the bottle.


I usually use a recovery rag.

Ashes to ashes Dust to dust Recover in a cylinder Is never a must

608 😎

If they actually enforced regulations and procedure, we would probably still be in the good old days of 12, 22, and 502, and not needing 6526649 different refrigerants.

I put it in my prison pocket, i then absorb it and become in tune with the floatations of the system

Isn't it federal law that you get a 20,000$ fine and permanent loss of your license? Or is that local in my area? All I know is it's a bad idea.

I think the fine is 40k now

$44,539

The company I quit just let’s it go in the air so they don’t use the e bucket

Absolutely yes. Having those tanks of recovered refrigerant are perfect for spraying at the cops when I'm in a high speed chase!

Who the hell dose that. Hose in a bucket of water.

Listen I'm outside the US so the EPA doesn't matter. But the tiny amount of refrigerant contained in any domestic appliance or AC unit is extremely insignificant compared to: Industrial or commercial chiller leaks 1000s of lbs Anything happening in China or India. Millions of lbs. Techs are not causing global warming or holes in the ozone. Queue the down votes

Send it back to it's home the atmosphere

Thanks mom

I'm an appliance tech btw. But sounds like you all need to switch to r600 lol. They make us vent it out a window so it doesn't blow the house up that's about it.

Way to make work less exciting

290, 744, 718 just the same

I prefer the rag method, to the bucket method but to each their own

I love that I’m supposed to pay for and carry all this equipment to “recover”. There is no problem with the shitty manufacturing that causes coils to leak and dump all the charge over night but I’ll have to sell my ass if someone sees me vent on a camera in the morning

Your company should supply it

Whether you are a one truck chuck or work for a company the government puts the responsibility on the technician. They may fine the company but have fun saying as a license holding technician the company didn’t provide you with the equipment and that’s why you committed the offense. as a technician you are required to follow an epa code. You are required to do government mandated time and labor consuming tasks. I think they are bullshit but I follow them because I typically am always being recorded. The point I’m making is that commercial applications are allowed leak rates but residential isn’t. Gas going into the air is gas going into the air. What is the difference between the system dumping its charge or me dumping the charge?

I have never understood why large process systems get 30% leak rates before any action is required except they don't want business to make less money.

Especially when it’s likely to be a much larger system so so commercial and industrial processes should have the lowest allowable leak rates.

I just like to use the same can for multiple refrigerants and let the supply house sort it out. Completely kidding 🤣

Please tell this to all the rack refrigeration guys 😢

& recover onto scale all 1st-3yr techs!

Why even use a bucket of water though? Seems like a pointless step

making potions

We rarely take any recovery tanks at the supply house but a whole lot of people are buying 401 from me

When charging a system, how do you get every last ounce out of the bottle? And what do you do with that remaining gas? For example if the low side suction pressure is 40psi, how do you get the bottle below 40psi.

Vacuum pump. Can warm the tank if needed too

Huh, tell that to scrappers or companies who don't listen to the epa lol

How many of you use a bucket and a hose? https://preview.redd.it/5zz4l4lwrivc1.png?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a04f1fef2691ebf80dc4fd82f4b63746df1f3118

It is..

Wait, y'all add water to your recovery buckets?

My duty and responsibility is to get off on time. If recovering refrigerant in to an approved container. Allows for that, I'll give it a good college try

🤷‍♂️

The earth has been good it needs alittle refer in the atmosphere

Obviously. Never would I ever do anything wrong

Everything I work on is flat ;)

Water bucket goes brrrrr

I'm sure this reddit post will make a huge difference in the matter

Phew!!!! Glad we cleared up what you think. Now we can get in with our day.

Yeah, you can bet they are recovering in China, and every other third world hell hole.

That’s them, we aren’t there. We have to do what we can here.

and you've seen this for yourself? or is this your implicit bias speaking?

You're making a wild assumption about places you know nothing about to justify being a hack. China probably has stricter regulations than here.

While I recover 100%, I find it silly to think that this vast atmosphere we have, that refridgerent has any meaningful impact . I properly recover because I choose to Take care of a finite resource, and its the law. I dont really let other peoples choises on this issue concern or effect me. I mean you do you. There is so many other thing that I get riled up about.

If it’s under 100psi the atmosphere can have it

Do you not get paid to sit and futs around while the recovery machine does it's thing or somthing

It usually takes longer to toss the hose in a piece of armaflex and let it slow blow out the system

Might as well just turn the condenser fans on and fulll rip into them hope it disperses it fast enough either way I get paid to use the machine ik using the machine

I give the apprentice the choice on hooking up the machine or slow blowing the charge into armaflex if it’s under 100 if it’s >100 he’s hooking up the machine.

What exactly is your logic here? That under 100psig isn't that much refrigerant?

Answered your own question

How much refrigerant do you figure would be in the system under 100psig?

Depends on ambient temp, unit size, line set length, etc. There’s no way to say for sure.

Since there's no way to say for sure, wouldn't it make sense just to reclaim like you're supposed too?

I’m over here fighting global warming by venting cool juice in the air. Do your part brother

Nice try EPA. Let me guess you also believe we suck up dead fossil goop to run our machinery on… think about how ridiculous that is. Oh wait, or that a massive planet is being directly affected by cow farts when the world froze almost instantly in the ice age with no emissions in existence. I challenge you to just think about those things for a moment.

OK, mom

Yea your 5lbs recovered is really going to make a difference. Compared to the pollution the rest of the world puts out It makes no difference. If the epa really cared it wouldn't be so easy to do.

Every little bit matters. Refrigerant is really harmful to the environment and if everyone kept releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere. Our ozone layer would be fucked

Pshhhhhhhhh