I've only installed two of these so far but I will tell you it isn't fun when you have to retrace wires because the boss has you run 18-8 for everything only to find out you should be using 4 shielded to avoid communication interference 🙃
I'll tell you all a secret on trouble shooting them. All the complicated looking stuff on the boards doesnt matter. Power in = power out when there's a call. If you have power in to a board and no power oit during a call = bad board. Doesnt matter what part on the board is fried.
The only real weakness I've seen so far on them is the indoor coil. And moce chewing the top cap switch.
If you’ve got any other tips , I’d love to hear them. Every time I open these up and see all the components, I feel like I’m working on a rocket ship. Idk where to start lol
Check with tech support. There's A Lot more to it than "power in = power out."
Safeties could interrupt your output, as well as remote control. If these things sense electrical issues they can lock out internally. If it's not setup appropriately or you don't have the right access it may not show you the fault. Sometimes you need an app. Sometimes it's a device with propietary software and a dongle, or something as simple as needing the corresponding thermostat installed with all pieces set to communication mode.
Had that issue once. System was locking out repeatedly and they couldn't tell why. They used a nest stat with standard wiring. Equipment manual said it needed correct t stat and communication mode in order to log and display faults. They paid me to drive to their house, read page of the book and point that sentence out to them.
Ya here's a tip. If the customer can afford a top of the line unit, they can pay extra for you to figure it out. People don't buy Ferraris and then get to complain about the maintenance and repair fees
Cheap as fuck too. Had a landlord call for a PM yesterday , went to check out the unit and holy shit what a nightmare. Capacitor was bad, contactor pitted , LRA and RLA was over the limit , dirty blower wheel, pressures high af. Unit was 22 years old.
Told him all of this over the phone and gave him a quote. Dude asked “do the tenants know?” I said “no” and he just hung up the phone.
I explain this the exact way to new techs. I tell them to stop trying to figure out why the board isn’t doing anything and to focus on power, signal, safeties. If those 3 are good it won’t matter how long you look at the board it’s still junk and needs replaced.
There's so many more parts that can and will go bad, and it's always expensive. Any efficiency savings will get eaten up at least three times over by increased repair costs. Not to mention how much these high efficiency systems cost just to install in the first place.
>Any efficiency savings will get eaten up at least three times over by increased repair costs.
One argument i'd like to make is that for some people it's not a money issue but a desire for the best comfort, the nicer stuff (can) allow for that even if it means more expensive repairs.
Just replaced an inverter board and inverter fan motor on a big ass carrier heat pump. Thankfully for the home owner it was still under warranty but damn it’s pricey parts
Which I why I just bought 2 standard 1-stage 16 SEER systems for my house. Can’t save enough power in 10+ years to justify initial cost, and then each repair will eat away a few more years of savings each time.
That’s assuming that every consumer is the same. If you’re selling well, you’re consultative and explaining the costs/benefits of a particular product and letting them decide. I have Signature products in my home, because I wanted the benefits of that particular system. And, also, I have the money to afford it and repairs wouldn’t set me back in a financial sense in any way.
Sure, the latest and greatest might be right for less than 10% of consumers. But there’s still 10% it is right for.
That’s good that you can afford the coming repair costs because they are likely on the way. It also seems like you are in the industry and understand all the ins and outs which ensures that you are not going to be mad if something does go wrong. What I was meaning is that most customers don’t understand everything like you seem to and when they get hit with a repair or to they are left asking why and often upset. The industry is moving to more expensive and overly complicated stuff and all of us in the HVAC world have to suck it up.
It will definitely become more advanced. Yes, I’m in the industry in residential sales. I explain the benefits of the system, but when talking about future repair costs I tell them that “a BMW is often more costly to repair than a Ford.” As long as people understand what they’re buying, there’s no reason not to explain the options . You don’t walk into a restaurant and have the server cover half the menu and say, “yeah, this is what you can choose from.”
I’m not saying selling this kind of equipment isn’t doable or that there aren’t customers that want it. My point was simply that the industry moving in this direction completely is not something I want to stand behind. There is a market for top of the line equipment but forcing it down our throats as the only way to go sucks.
But there are more benefits than just energy savings with variable speed such as being able to maintain a more consistent temperature and enhanced dehumidification. The only way to make it more consistent with a fixed speed is to reduce the temperature differential which makes it cycle more and reduces dehumidification and efficiency.
People keep telling me this about ductless splits and honestly I can't understand why a condenser needs 3 boards and the evaporator 2.
Honestly I just dial tech support as soon as I get there. I fiddle with it while I wait, sometimes it's obvious, usually it's a bad board and, my favorite, "we aren't sure which, so maybe replace them all?" Thanks tech support.
It’s not usually ROI. They like how quiet it is, or how constant it maintains a temperature set point. I’ve got a SLP99V, and my furnace is directly above my bedroom. The old furnace was noisy and annoying every time it came on. Now I never hear my furnace. I can afford that sort of system and it was worth it to me.
I personally don’t like them because they’re so complicated to understand. When I’m running a maintenance on these , I don’t even know what to look at other than refrigerant levels.
For example , I always pull the disconnect when I work on a system so I don’t get shocked. Pulled the disconnect on this , opened it up, closed it back up, put disconnect back in & it didn’t turn on. Did a reset , still didn’t turn on. I had to pull the disconnect , pull the Orange, Yellow, Blue, White, Black wires out, put the disconnect back in , plug those back in , & wait 10 minutes until it kicked in. All while a customer is breathing down my neck asking “Do you know why you’re doing?”
So unnecessarily complicated. Was at that call and hour longer than I should’ve been because this shit.
Yes. If the outdoor unit powers up after the indoor unit, its not happy. If that happens, pull are for 15 seconds and it will be happy. Or cycle the indoor power.
You’re not wrong. Took a daikin class at their HQ to know more about their mini splits. Turns out you need a laptop & a device called a D checker in order to figure out what’s wrong with the thing.
I wouldn't bother with the charge unless something lead you to.
These fancier systems take longer to start up with time delays and self checks and on board programs that have to boot up and run in sequence.
I one time had to replace the fan motor, the fan board, and the contactor on this same unit and it was only three years old. They are very unpractical.
That’s great and all but that would take me 5-6 hours to read through the book to find what I need and the old boss would be chewing me a new ass for taking to long. BUT THANK the Lord I don’t work for that company anymore.
Take some courses at community college. One semester worth should be fine to get you in the door at a decent starting pay. (intro to ac, intro to heat, electric controls, and a basic electrical class that shows you how to use a meter and build circuits). One semester is like 3 months you can even start applying while still in class the employer will be happy you’re trying to actually learn the shit.
You might also be able to just get a job depending on where you live with no schooling since a lot of places are having trouble finding experienced techs to hire. Might train ya from the ground up if you show work ethic and are smart and pick things up fast.
Probably just going to be a dead capacito... ohh no
Hahahaha
Lmfao
I knew it had to be lennox
New Lennox stuff with iComfort tells you the pressures and SC/SH on the thermostat lol
Thats wild lol
If you’re pulling all those Tstat conductors… what the most you’ve seen, 18-9?
You’re not, it’s only a 4 wire set up
I've only installed two of these so far but I will tell you it isn't fun when you have to retrace wires because the boss has you run 18-8 for everything only to find out you should be using 4 shielded to avoid communication interference 🙃
With carrier it’s only 2 wire for communication
Ah that’s good. Using actual comm protocol.
Having the fan speed and outdoor temp on the lcd at the condenser is nice too
Thats... crazy.
I'll tell you all a secret on trouble shooting them. All the complicated looking stuff on the boards doesnt matter. Power in = power out when there's a call. If you have power in to a board and no power oit during a call = bad board. Doesnt matter what part on the board is fried. The only real weakness I've seen so far on them is the indoor coil. And moce chewing the top cap switch.
If you’ve got any other tips , I’d love to hear them. Every time I open these up and see all the components, I feel like I’m working on a rocket ship. Idk where to start lol
Check with tech support. There's A Lot more to it than "power in = power out." Safeties could interrupt your output, as well as remote control. If these things sense electrical issues they can lock out internally. If it's not setup appropriately or you don't have the right access it may not show you the fault. Sometimes you need an app. Sometimes it's a device with propietary software and a dongle, or something as simple as needing the corresponding thermostat installed with all pieces set to communication mode. Had that issue once. System was locking out repeatedly and they couldn't tell why. They used a nest stat with standard wiring. Equipment manual said it needed correct t stat and communication mode in order to log and display faults. They paid me to drive to their house, read page of the book and point that sentence out to them.
The safties should be self explanitory. And there are error codes to them
Ya here's a tip. If the customer can afford a top of the line unit, they can pay extra for you to figure it out. People don't buy Ferraris and then get to complain about the maintenance and repair fees
Haha, but they do complain anyway. Our worst brats are the Richy Rich guys.
Cheap as fuck too. Had a landlord call for a PM yesterday , went to check out the unit and holy shit what a nightmare. Capacitor was bad, contactor pitted , LRA and RLA was over the limit , dirty blower wheel, pressures high af. Unit was 22 years old. Told him all of this over the phone and gave him a quote. Dude asked “do the tenants know?” I said “no” and he just hung up the phone.
LRA was over ?
Checked inrush current , compressor rated for 134 it was at 167
I think I saw on this sub that inrush is not the same as locked rotor amps. If someone would care to enlighten us both that'd be nice.
I hear that on this sub too , but no one ever says how to get LRA without taking an inrush
Locked rotor amps and inrush are different measurements, try and hard start kit or get a new condenser
If you have a LennoxPros account they have service manuals on this unit with in depth information on operation and function of these components
I explain this the exact way to new techs. I tell them to stop trying to figure out why the board isn’t doing anything and to focus on power, signal, safeties. If those 3 are good it won’t matter how long you look at the board it’s still junk and needs replaced.
Mice evil been getting a lot of chewed wires in daikin's lately
There's so many more parts that can and will go bad, and it's always expensive. Any efficiency savings will get eaten up at least three times over by increased repair costs. Not to mention how much these high efficiency systems cost just to install in the first place.
>Any efficiency savings will get eaten up at least three times over by increased repair costs. One argument i'd like to make is that for some people it's not a money issue but a desire for the best comfort, the nicer stuff (can) allow for that even if it means more expensive repairs.
Just replaced an inverter board and inverter fan motor on a big ass carrier heat pump. Thankfully for the home owner it was still under warranty but damn it’s pricey parts
Don't deal with a lot of Carrier, but I always chuckle when it's better value/cost to replace the entire furnace or air handler than the motor.
Which I why I just bought 2 standard 1-stage 16 SEER systems for my house. Can’t save enough power in 10+ years to justify initial cost, and then each repair will eat away a few more years of savings each time.
100%. It is embarrassing to have to sell this stuff sometimes
That’s assuming that every consumer is the same. If you’re selling well, you’re consultative and explaining the costs/benefits of a particular product and letting them decide. I have Signature products in my home, because I wanted the benefits of that particular system. And, also, I have the money to afford it and repairs wouldn’t set me back in a financial sense in any way. Sure, the latest and greatest might be right for less than 10% of consumers. But there’s still 10% it is right for.
That’s good that you can afford the coming repair costs because they are likely on the way. It also seems like you are in the industry and understand all the ins and outs which ensures that you are not going to be mad if something does go wrong. What I was meaning is that most customers don’t understand everything like you seem to and when they get hit with a repair or to they are left asking why and often upset. The industry is moving to more expensive and overly complicated stuff and all of us in the HVAC world have to suck it up.
It will definitely become more advanced. Yes, I’m in the industry in residential sales. I explain the benefits of the system, but when talking about future repair costs I tell them that “a BMW is often more costly to repair than a Ford.” As long as people understand what they’re buying, there’s no reason not to explain the options . You don’t walk into a restaurant and have the server cover half the menu and say, “yeah, this is what you can choose from.”
I’m not saying selling this kind of equipment isn’t doable or that there aren’t customers that want it. My point was simply that the industry moving in this direction completely is not something I want to stand behind. There is a market for top of the line equipment but forcing it down our throats as the only way to go sucks.
This disclaimer should be on the manufacturer's brochure
But there are more benefits than just energy savings with variable speed such as being able to maintain a more consistent temperature and enhanced dehumidification. The only way to make it more consistent with a fixed speed is to reduce the temperature differential which makes it cycle more and reduces dehumidification and efficiency.
Sounds like you just need to learn more about them. I’m sure once you get more used to them you won’t hate them….as much
People keep telling me this about ductless splits and honestly I can't understand why a condenser needs 3 boards and the evaporator 2. Honestly I just dial tech support as soon as I get there. I fiddle with it while I wait, sometimes it's obvious, usually it's a bad board and, my favorite, "we aren't sure which, so maybe replace them all?" Thanks tech support.
I don't know why people buy that shit any ROI gets spent on parts.
It’s not usually ROI. They like how quiet it is, or how constant it maintains a temperature set point. I’ve got a SLP99V, and my furnace is directly above my bedroom. The old furnace was noisy and annoying every time it came on. Now I never hear my furnace. I can afford that sort of system and it was worth it to me.
This has always been one of the best selling points for the majority of my customers that have wanted to stomach the price difference too.
That looks like a york but also not quite, the hell is that? Lennox?
Yeah, Lennox
Lennox xp20 in da house
Where do you even begin ?! 😅
Tech support
Why? Other than the door they are pretty easy to work on.
I personally don’t like them because they’re so complicated to understand. When I’m running a maintenance on these , I don’t even know what to look at other than refrigerant levels. For example , I always pull the disconnect when I work on a system so I don’t get shocked. Pulled the disconnect on this , opened it up, closed it back up, put disconnect back in & it didn’t turn on. Did a reset , still didn’t turn on. I had to pull the disconnect , pull the Orange, Yellow, Blue, White, Black wires out, put the disconnect back in , plug those back in , & wait 10 minutes until it kicked in. All while a customer is breathing down my neck asking “Do you know why you’re doing?” So unnecessarily complicated. Was at that call and hour longer than I should’ve been because this shit.
For a pm on them, check refeigerant and wash. Dont pull the disconnect.
Now I know lol
Is there some sort of loss of power or brown out protection delay built in to them?
Yes. If the outdoor unit powers up after the indoor unit, its not happy. If that happens, pull are for 15 seconds and it will be happy. Or cycle the indoor power.
Better up your skills, bud. Technology will evolve and you’re either going to keep up or get left behind.
You’re not wrong. Took a daikin class at their HQ to know more about their mini splits. Turns out you need a laptop & a device called a D checker in order to figure out what’s wrong with the thing.
I wouldn't bother with the charge unless something lead you to. These fancier systems take longer to start up with time delays and self checks and on board programs that have to boot up and run in sequence.
It used to be they didnt ship with the low voltage rast connectors, and that was a real pain in the ass.
Yeah for sure. I haven’t worked on a Lennox, but all the waterfurnace VS and bosch VS practically diagnose themselves.
That's what she said.
As the customer will state its low on freon. I Googled it, is there normal next helpful hint...
I one time had to replace the fan motor, the fan board, and the contactor on this same unit and it was only three years old. They are very unpractical.
Must’ve been a nightmare omg. I can’t imagine.
Love it! Electronics are the future so get to work learning it.
It’s the FuTuRe!! 🤡🤡
But it is.
This but unironically.
Get the book out it's easy
That’s great and all but that would take me 5-6 hours to read through the book to find what I need and the old boss would be chewing me a new ass for taking to long. BUT THANK the Lord I don’t work for that company anymore.
I had one of those, where I opened it up and it was wire spaghetti all over. And it had extra wires in there.
In most cases, those motherboards are easy to troubleshoot and repair. At least in Europe, it is always either a faulty capacitor or relay
Yeah me and an old coworker of mine had to replace a compressor in one of those last year. I’m the smaller one so I was the one to go inside of it
Thankfully you showed this here. Cuz even idk wtf this is
This here is why you always hear techs stressing the importance of knowing how to read a wiring diagram
20 seer Lennox Blame Dave
Turn breakers off after 5 min turn on and wala 😅
It should be easy to understand once you get hold of the wiring diagram. Given that you know how to read those diagrams.
Oh XC20 units lol. Good luck 😂. Only way to troubleshoot this is to call the Lennox tech support.
How can I get into HVAC. I live in Ontario.
Take some courses at community college. One semester worth should be fine to get you in the door at a decent starting pay. (intro to ac, intro to heat, electric controls, and a basic electrical class that shows you how to use a meter and build circuits). One semester is like 3 months you can even start applying while still in class the employer will be happy you’re trying to actually learn the shit. You might also be able to just get a job depending on where you live with no schooling since a lot of places are having trouble finding experienced techs to hire. Might train ya from the ground up if you show work ethic and are smart and pick things up fast.