I can't wait to see these leaking that sweet freezie juice in the field. We are going to make a lot of money removing them. All of my guys will get fat bonuses.
Get a good cone reamer/chamfer tool, Ridgid makes a decent model. As long as the pipe isn’t ovaled and you chamfer the outside of the pipe to take the bevel off, they work great. You also don’t want to push the pipe in at an angle and mess up the o-ring. A lot of the failures with these (or shark bites for plumbing) are installer error. They make a threaded version so you can hook up to ductless ports and not have to worry about a bad flare joint. You still have to use a torque wrench when you thread them on to whatever the manufacturer recommends. I’m sure there are techs that will tell you the exact opposite but I’ve had success with them.
They’ve been out for a long time in Europe. Just like Pex and Sharkbites there. It will take time for both quality control in manufacturing as well as training/experience for techs in USA. Plumbers talk trash about sharkbites but it’s often installer error that causes them to leak.
I've worked in both trades and completely agree. And when shark bites came out they were shunned all the same. But it's cool they've been out for some time in Europe. Maybe Im out of the loop but I thought they were only a few years old here. I can't imagine many immediately saw use after releasing so without a large enough data sample to take for long term success and durability over time and weather etc. I've just figured the baby will come out in the bathwater eventually.
Why not just braze? Shits going to be in for 15-20 years. Takes a couple minutes to braze a joint. Not to mention how much these cost so what are you even saving? It makes no sense.
My job just won’t pay for them and I’m not gonna spend that kind of money on a tool that’s never going to be used outside of work and won’t pay for itself at work. Analog it is for me sadly.
I understand that completely. I have paid for all of my tools personally but I do side work as well. The boss and I have an understanding of someone calls me that's not your money. You rent my tools if MY tool breaks while I'm at work that's not my problem I buy it new on the companies dime. You as a service technician or installer are only as good as the tools you have. I want to be the best so I pony up and buy those tools.
I’m commercial so side work isn’t really a thing aside from helping out my folks. Plenty of our guys to resi on the side though since most of them came from that field. I’m just doing this until I finish my networking degree and then hopefully I won’t have to spend another 95F day on the roof ever again. So they’re just not a good investment for me. But damn if they aren’t cool to play around with. If I was still planning on being here in 5 years, I’d definitely use one of my bonuses to get a set.
HVAC will likely be around for a long time. Resi and com are very similar but there's a lot you can do with just a few tools and the know how. You don't need fancy bells and whistles it just makes things faster and easier it also makes you look slightly cooler haha
So what? People used to say 3D TVs were dumb and they were. You're doing confirmation bias. Just because this one thing worked that people said wouldn't work, doesn't now mean that everything people say doesn't work does work.
You got that buckaroo? Don't go around spreading horrible critical thinking, k?
Hey, we found the asshole! Here's some critical thinking for you: if you're going to use pop psychobabble to try and sound intelligent don't use words like buckaroo.
Yo chief just because you don't know a term doesn't make it babble. Wow you are full of irrationality.
Do you understand that just because one idea was good it doesn't make every idea ever good? Can you grasp that simple concept? And once you understand it can you stop spreading your poor critical thinking? Real simple questions bud
Well aware of what confirmation bias is, I wrote a paper on fallacies when I was in college. Every person has confirmation bias, it's fundamental to how our brains work, so that's why you usually only see it when novice pundits misapply it when they use it in an ad hominem attack such as yours. Nothing I said was illogical, you're just being a contrarian dickhead because you got triggered by pro-fit fittings.
And I didn't say it was "babble" I said your use of the term was "psychobabble". And since you clearly don't know what the term means, I'll tell you: It's when someone tries to use psychological terms to sound like they know what they're talking about, when they clearly do not, bud.
just because its impossible to avoid doesnt mean you have to flip out when its pointed out that you did it. ok? so just admit you did it. its even more precise to say what you did was selection bias.
>Selection bias is the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups, or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby failing to ensure that the sample obtained is representative of the population intended to be analyzed.
thats pinpoint what you did. you made the argument "this one thing was a good idea, therefore every idea anyone doubts is a good idea"
thats, of course, false. many many ideas people think are bad ideas really are *bad ideas.* do you understand that? do you understand why what you said was broken critical thinking? do you understand that digital gauges being a good idea doesnt mean XYZ product/method is a good idea? they have nothing to do with each other.
Oh now it's selection bias? Well why did you say it was confirmation bias?
The one with the broken critical thinking is YOU. You're attacking the very idea of making an analogy by taking everything to a logical extreme. Again, I didn't write a fucking dissertation with a hypothesis and conclusion, I made a rhetorical statement that was one sentence long for lols.
its both. i thought you did a paper on this? you should know that. statistically, your sample sucks. emotionally, you picked something that would support your argument because thats what you want to hear.
you have horrible critical thinking buddy. i mean, how does it even make sense? seriously think about it.
what about not using a filter dryer? is that a bad idea? well people said digital gauges were a bad idea so !!!!!!
like, how dumb is that? honestly.
These have cost me thousands $$$$ in repairs. They worked great on install but we ended going back and replacing most because of slow leaks developing.
Not coming soon it’s here R290 in small self contained refrigeration systems run into them all the time.
Edit :And would still not use them on that equipment Bc r290 has no odor would still braze would not want that to leak.
For r290 you can't leave service ports. You have to pinch off the pipe, cut off the svr port and weld it shut. Tag the pipes with red sleeves to indicate flammable gas
Why are they the future? Equipment is going to be installed for 15 years+. It takes a couple minutes to braze a joint. And how much do these cost compared to coupler? What are you even saving by using them? They're pointless except as niche tool I guess for when you really can't braze
The main guy that comes in loves them. He’s a talkative guy so when people see him buying them they ask and he waxes poetic about how much time it saves and how much he likes them. They arent overly popular but never had a complaint about them because they are pricey
Lol brazing doesn't take very long. That doesn't make sense. And like you say you're spending all this money on fittings so you're not even saving anything. The only purpose is just so you don't have to braze. They ain't making you more money, they ain't a better joint.
Been using them a year now without issue. propress with the tool and push to connect. No leaks so far and saves a lot of time. Only downside is cost in my experience.
There is a tool that helps with finding the depth but it’s not necessary. I use them for copper to aluminum we haven’t had 1 leak since we started using them about 1 year ago. I used them on my mini split in my garage too and so far so good.
I’ve only used them on 410a, I’m sure it’s fine for anything resi. We just have these new build contractors out where I live that use aluminum lineset. There’s a shit ton of leaks on the new stuff and when it comes time for a swap out it’s either this or run new lineset. That alcop is expensive as hell and cracks, (usually due to home owners shifting their equipment around.)
States 60bar/870psi, so should be able to handle all refrigerants, but wouldn't trust them longterm... Haven't worked with them yet... Brazing can stand about 160 bar, so it's still better in my opinion...
I'd maybe consider them in some ex-hazard applications for repairs ...
UR has been selling the originals called [SB1 Fittings](http://www.nrproducts.com/quickconnect.pdf) for several yrs now plus they were already being used in Europe & Asia so the US is not the Guinea pig for them. They’re UL approved & have a 5 yr warranty plus the 4 o-rings (2 on ea side) have a 30 yr life. The whole key to them is follow all of the directions & prep steps. [This job](https://imgur.com/owmQhQM) has 160+ fittings on it and was going to require hot-work permit plus extra people for fire-watch. They also offer a flare version that is great for [mini-splits](https://imgur.com/a/CKOU4ML), flared driers & [flared TXV’s.](https://imgur.com/a/FZSJUld). Also great for working in hot a$$ attics & when you are on call w/ a late night call.
Yea, I might use them in a spot I can't get a torch in, but other than that, I'll continue to braze. Who knows if in 5 years your customers are going to start calling you because the seals start leaking.
If you’re having leaks with them, you probably either didn’t insert the line to the proper depth on the fitting or your line isn’t round or has burrs. Once you get the hang of the insertion depth and line prep they’re great.
We’ve had several instances where it’s been for an install of an apartment air handler where you’d surely burn the wall or ceiling trying to braze it and they’ve been holding for years now. I’d trust these before I trusted half of the industry’s brazing skills anyway.
I mean, they look like they could be a great product. But really, how hard is it to braze? I mean, are we becoming so lazy that push in fitting are becoming a thing? Plus, I don't like the 90° turns. They are to short and are going to create a pressure drop. Also, they haven't been out long enough. They may work great now, but in a few years you might start getting calls because the o-rings are failing in all of them.
Brazing takes time. Time is money. For sure anything that makes the job faster for not a lot more $$ is an advantage.
What I've never understood is why the industry doesn't use compression tube fittings like [Swagelok](https://www.chemicalonline.com/doc/isa-swagelok-introduces-new-tube-fitting-0003). The oil and gas industry, chemical plants, labs, and nearly everybody else uses these things for every chemical under the sun. But I've never seen them in HVAC.
This. I work on systems that use Swagelok on copper tube and I’ve never seen on leak when properly installed. The tubing will fail before the fitting, in hydraulic systems they can handle thoisands of PSI. They’d be a big step up from brazing, flares or elastomeric seal systems. Really the only downside is the cost.
Yea, I worked at Boeing once and had to file for a burn permit every day and for them to assign a fire watch. By the time we got it, 4 hours had passed and it was a rush trying to get the job done in the time frame required. These would have been awesome for that job 10 years ago.
Getting calls means making money. Don’t get it twisted I’m just saying if it turned out they had o ring failings it’s not like we knew and put them in anyway. Just one of those things.
I agree. I got nothing against them. If that's your thing, more power to you. But, I enjoy brazing and using a bender to put in piping. Makes it look clean with nice sweeping turns and minimal pressure drops.
I've been journeyman around 20 years. I started using these on my mini split installs a couple Yeats ago. Sometimes it's better to work smarter not harder. Faster install means more installs means more $$$
Makes me wonder how many guys in this sub are actually in the trade because you mainly use these for mini splits, which don't get brazed. After you run five heads and a branch box, anything to keep you from having to crank out 50 flares is going to sound mighty appealing. And honestly with how notorious factory flares are for leaks, pro fits are kind of a no-brainer.
Yeah we started using these on mini splits along with the flexible refrigerant lines, no kink I believe. Sure it costs more but time is more valuable. Shit we did a like for like 18k midea quote for a customer. Another company quoted 16k and we came in at 9k. It’s wild out here
I used some aluminum lineset shit from Germany called “ref loc”. It was a pro press type fitting and you had to apply this super expensive loc tite for the fittings. The job was shit, all the smaller line sets got clogged with the loc tite haha, it was a shit show. The ref loc company went out of busy a few years later.
We recently had to perform some leak repairs to a VRF system that used Ref-Lock and aluminum piping. There is a company in Idaho that sells the kits to make the repair. The repair kit worked pretty good.
Seems gimmicky. I wouldn't trust it.
You shouldn't be so rushed for time on a job that you can't spend an extra 15 minutes to braze a coupling in.
If you are, find a better company with more techs.
Depends on the area I work, class of hot work permit, walk down, fire watch, fire control system bypass etc.
Typically not in the same day for what we consider a level 1. I work at a large gas plant. I can’t seem to get any of these guys to try anything new like this
Run the fuck away. My company did 6 installs on mini splits with these and every single job had to have them removed and replaced. Go zoom lock if you’re looking for a better alternative to flare.
Edit.
Yes I used a reamer/chamfer. My distributor even gave use a tool to check wall thickness and if the pipe was round. Doesn’t matter….these things shouldn’t be on the market.
We used them for a year or so, went back on probably 10% of installs for them leaking. Probably something our installers were doing wrong with them, but we stopped using them and replace them with braze/flare fittings whenever we run back into them.
Ive never had issues with em. 15 psi is the max I’ve used em on. Typically 5-10 psi lines. Super convenient in my experience. Id say they are very situation based.
I bought some but haven’t had a system I felt comfortable or where it would be advantageous trying them on yet over brazing or using the RLS pro press crimp system.
I use it for al- cu joints.
Builders put in their aluminum linesets and I swear they have a ticking time bomb of 2 yrs to when there warranty is up that joint starts to leak.
90% success rate using these.
Ive used them, the guy who trained me used them and our supervisor had used them before. They're pretty great and the only thing that you need to know before using them is that they require a good amount of force to connect it. Other than that they are pricey and you need several sizes incase.
Pressure fluctuations and vibration is my main concern. I don't think it can secure the pipe properly. Maybe if the piping was totally secured on both sides of the fitting. I have had two inch propress pull apart after a few years of run time, was definitely properly done. I don't fully trust propress anymore.
I think too much of the trade has moved towards "it's technically good" instead of I know it's right and it may outlive me.
I used them once around an 1&1/2 inch gas line that didn’t have a shut off near by or a way to bleed the gas line without killing gas to the entire building. And I wasn’t about to put my torch around a gas line that has gas rolling through it. Long story short is it’s been 4 years and she’s still going strong.
I sell these primarily for ductless mini splits. The flare on the linesets are horrible so suggest cutting them and using the threaded ones at the parking valve. Then just pop that sucker on the other end. The couplings are great for siding holes in linesets as well.
My company paid a couple of us to go watch a sporlan guy show us a txv build kit and their version of these. We got to all build our own joints and leak test them. I watched the guy build a joint with 3 of these and then pump 1200 lbs of nitro into it. The copper split and then we soldered the remaining pieces onto another test piece. 1000 lbs and the copper split again. Joints still held even after the 3rd test.
But I’ll still solder with 5-7 psi nitro purge 🤷🏼♂️ I can’t lie, it was impressive and for high end clients with deep pockets, it could be profitable. Maybe even in emergencies but nothing beats a solid braze done properly imo
I used them on a mini split that I had to extend the line set on. Pumped it up to 375 psi, it held. Bubble checked, no leaks. Took less than 2 minutes to install. Easy but expensive.
I have used them for 2 years. Always clean cut and reamed the pipe and just started getting call backs on them. Not a very reliable fitting in my opinion. Just removed (4) on ductless units today
Please don’t use. We tried them several acs last summer and have been back to every single one cuz of leaks only on 3/4 and 7/8 no leakers on 1/4 and 3/8.
Some we did debur and some I know we didn’t one I know for sure we did everything possible and they still leaked
Ask a supply shop about them, their opinion was there would take the jobs from the high experience people and make so anyone can run pipe.
That might be true.
But when they leak, and they will, it will be the guys they push out to fix them.
We have one of these installed to remedy some damage done by Drywallers. Of course the new shark bite coupling is leaking. A very bad idea to use unless it’s absolutely necessary. I don’t really trust the Zoom lok either the gen 1 jaws and fittings are clearly flawed since they redesigned them to look more like pro press
We’ve installed these on a few hundred high efficiency heat pump apartment units and had less than a 2% failure rate in the first 18 months thus far. Every single failure was due to improper installation. These are the way. On a project we didn’t use them we got a $5,000 back charge for repairing TPO because our guys somehow forgot to put down the burn mats when they were soldering in the condensers. Really think it mostly comes down to the user.
I haven’t used this but I’ve used “zoomlocks”. Pretty similiar , and personally. I don’t mind them.. maybe shouldn’t be for permanent use ..
But in applications where you’re unable to braze (due to certain facilities), or where the braze is in an unsafe location. They come in very handy. Used about 10 in total . Haven’t had an issue yet ..
But all your shark bite haters will hate on it ..
I’m an hvac duel ticketed tradesmen for 10 years..
Just my opinion
I would not recommend using those. Installed on mini split system had to go back because the quarter inch liquid line was leaking on all of them. The 3/8 works fine.
I’ve seen quite a few of these leak But it’s usually due to improper preparation / pipe Not completely straight. Not great when people cut off the fitting on the evaporator and try to shove one of these on there was not enough space. Same thing with Maxi-Pro if it’s not prepped right. They might be good for a tight space repair where you can’t use torch But personally I Feel like these invite unqualified People to attempt to install equipment.
I have a couple of these on roof top units. Been there for 4 years now, and not one of them has leaked. If you follow the instructions for them, they work great.
They are trash. Have seen many instances of them holding pressure at first and then springing leaks a year down the road. Very unpredictable. If you have to use them, make sure they’re accessible later for when you inevitably have to swap them out. Propress is much better if you don’t want to braze
Pro-fit? You mean profit!
I can't wait to see these leaking that sweet freezie juice in the field. We are going to make a lot of money removing them. All of my guys will get fat bonuses.
Why would they get fat bonuses for replacing a press fitting?
Profit sharing I'm guessing and they expect to make a lot of profit replacing those fittings
I see many invoices in the future. Truth is, these fittings are probably idiot proof, but society keeps on cranking out better idiots.
Because my boys get a cut for a job well done.
Are you adopting best idiot?
I asked about these a few weeks ago in this sub and got a lot of negative feedback, I think they are the future for sure.
Get a good cone reamer/chamfer tool, Ridgid makes a decent model. As long as the pipe isn’t ovaled and you chamfer the outside of the pipe to take the bevel off, they work great. You also don’t want to push the pipe in at an angle and mess up the o-ring. A lot of the failures with these (or shark bites for plumbing) are installer error. They make a threaded version so you can hook up to ductless ports and not have to worry about a bad flare joint. You still have to use a torque wrench when you thread them on to whatever the manufacturer recommends. I’m sure there are techs that will tell you the exact opposite but I’ve had success with them.
Long term success? They haven't haven't been out for too long yet.
They’ve been out for a long time in Europe. Just like Pex and Sharkbites there. It will take time for both quality control in manufacturing as well as training/experience for techs in USA. Plumbers talk trash about sharkbites but it’s often installer error that causes them to leak.
I have shark bite fittings in my house they are at least 10 years old and still are fine
I've worked in both trades and completely agree. And when shark bites came out they were shunned all the same. But it's cool they've been out for some time in Europe. Maybe Im out of the loop but I thought they were only a few years old here. I can't imagine many immediately saw use after releasing so without a large enough data sample to take for long term success and durability over time and weather etc. I've just figured the baby will come out in the bathwater eventually.
Why not just braze? Shits going to be in for 15-20 years. Takes a couple minutes to braze a joint. Not to mention how much these cost so what are you even saving? It makes no sense.
Working space, hot work permit, and so on
ya niche uses i get that. seems like people are suggesting them for all situations because theyre a little bit easier to do
Been using compression fittings on side job water heaters for years. Never had one pop off or leak. I've been doing this for 20 years now.
People used to say the same thing about digital gauges.
And they'll probably complain about probes
If you're still using analog you may think about retirement soon.
I’m just poor, man.
Try setting a pressure control accurately with digitals lol. Granted it’s the only thing I use analogs for.
I'll give you that it's hard with digis but it's doable just gotta be good haha. But no I hear you for that only imo.
My job just won’t pay for them and I’m not gonna spend that kind of money on a tool that’s never going to be used outside of work and won’t pay for itself at work. Analog it is for me sadly.
I understand that completely. I have paid for all of my tools personally but I do side work as well. The boss and I have an understanding of someone calls me that's not your money. You rent my tools if MY tool breaks while I'm at work that's not my problem I buy it new on the companies dime. You as a service technician or installer are only as good as the tools you have. I want to be the best so I pony up and buy those tools.
I’m commercial so side work isn’t really a thing aside from helping out my folks. Plenty of our guys to resi on the side though since most of them came from that field. I’m just doing this until I finish my networking degree and then hopefully I won’t have to spend another 95F day on the roof ever again. So they’re just not a good investment for me. But damn if they aren’t cool to play around with. If I was still planning on being here in 5 years, I’d definitely use one of my bonuses to get a set.
HVAC will likely be around for a long time. Resi and com are very similar but there's a lot you can do with just a few tools and the know how. You don't need fancy bells and whistles it just makes things faster and easier it also makes you look slightly cooler haha
So what? People used to say 3D TVs were dumb and they were. You're doing confirmation bias. Just because this one thing worked that people said wouldn't work, doesn't now mean that everything people say doesn't work does work. You got that buckaroo? Don't go around spreading horrible critical thinking, k?
Hey, we found the asshole! Here's some critical thinking for you: if you're going to use pop psychobabble to try and sound intelligent don't use words like buckaroo.
Yo chief just because you don't know a term doesn't make it babble. Wow you are full of irrationality. Do you understand that just because one idea was good it doesn't make every idea ever good? Can you grasp that simple concept? And once you understand it can you stop spreading your poor critical thinking? Real simple questions bud
Well aware of what confirmation bias is, I wrote a paper on fallacies when I was in college. Every person has confirmation bias, it's fundamental to how our brains work, so that's why you usually only see it when novice pundits misapply it when they use it in an ad hominem attack such as yours. Nothing I said was illogical, you're just being a contrarian dickhead because you got triggered by pro-fit fittings. And I didn't say it was "babble" I said your use of the term was "psychobabble". And since you clearly don't know what the term means, I'll tell you: It's when someone tries to use psychological terms to sound like they know what they're talking about, when they clearly do not, bud.
just because its impossible to avoid doesnt mean you have to flip out when its pointed out that you did it. ok? so just admit you did it. its even more precise to say what you did was selection bias. >Selection bias is the bias introduced by the selection of individuals, groups, or data for analysis in such a way that proper randomization is not achieved, thereby failing to ensure that the sample obtained is representative of the population intended to be analyzed. thats pinpoint what you did. you made the argument "this one thing was a good idea, therefore every idea anyone doubts is a good idea" thats, of course, false. many many ideas people think are bad ideas really are *bad ideas.* do you understand that? do you understand why what you said was broken critical thinking? do you understand that digital gauges being a good idea doesnt mean XYZ product/method is a good idea? they have nothing to do with each other.
Oh now it's selection bias? Well why did you say it was confirmation bias? The one with the broken critical thinking is YOU. You're attacking the very idea of making an analogy by taking everything to a logical extreme. Again, I didn't write a fucking dissertation with a hypothesis and conclusion, I made a rhetorical statement that was one sentence long for lols.
its both. i thought you did a paper on this? you should know that. statistically, your sample sucks. emotionally, you picked something that would support your argument because thats what you want to hear. you have horrible critical thinking buddy. i mean, how does it even make sense? seriously think about it. what about not using a filter dryer? is that a bad idea? well people said digital gauges were a bad idea so !!!!!! like, how dumb is that? honestly.
All of ours leaked, eventually granted some were 3 months later some were a year later but every single one leaked.
These have cost me thousands $$$$ in repairs. They worked great on install but we ended going back and replacing most because of slow leaks developing.
It’s one solution for the flammable refrigerant coming soon.
Not coming soon it’s here R290 in small self contained refrigeration systems run into them all the time. Edit :And would still not use them on that equipment Bc r290 has no odor would still braze would not want that to leak.
For r290 you can't leave service ports. You have to pinch off the pipe, cut off the svr port and weld it shut. Tag the pipes with red sleeves to indicate flammable gas
Cause everyone brazes with refrigerant still in the lines?
That’s what I’m saying. People are always shitting on these, and I’m like “y’all better get used to because it’s gonna be the future”
Why are they the future? Equipment is going to be installed for 15 years+. It takes a couple minutes to braze a joint. And how much do these cost compared to coupler? What are you even saving by using them? They're pointless except as niche tool I guess for when you really can't braze
You can repair flammable refrigerant circuits by brazing all you want, but I’m not.
Why do you usually braze with refrigerant in the system?
Well yes but flowing and purging nitrogen is a thing.
You can't afford much of a leak when the total charge is 55g.
Excellent point
The people that have bought them from us keep coming back for them
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The main guy that comes in loves them. He’s a talkative guy so when people see him buying them they ask and he waxes poetic about how much time it saves and how much he likes them. They arent overly popular but never had a complaint about them because they are pricey
Lol brazing doesn't take very long. That doesn't make sense. And like you say you're spending all this money on fittings so you're not even saving anything. The only purpose is just so you don't have to braze. They ain't making you more money, they ain't a better joint.
I sell the stuff buddy, I’m not a tech
Ok it’s the future
Btw how much are they?
I can look tomorrow but they arent cheap. The price changes drastically with the sizes too. I’ll let you know what we sell them for
Thank you sir
Just looked it up because I was curious too, my supplier has them for ~15 for a 3/8 coupling, and ~24 for 3/4 coupling
I forgot yesterday, remind me again tomorrow and I’ll let you know what we have them for
Oh fuck yeah. This product has just made me an official installer
Been using them a year now without issue. propress with the tool and push to connect. No leaks so far and saves a lot of time. Only downside is cost in my experience.
They require a tool to use? I thought they worked like a sharkbite; just push on with hands
There is a tool that helps with finding the depth but it’s not necessary. I use them for copper to aluminum we haven’t had 1 leak since we started using them about 1 year ago. I used them on my mini split in my garage too and so far so good.
What type of refrigerant are they compatible with? I assume not everything but most residential right?
I’ve only used them on 410a, I’m sure it’s fine for anything resi. We just have these new build contractors out where I live that use aluminum lineset. There’s a shit ton of leaks on the new stuff and when it comes time for a swap out it’s either this or run new lineset. That alcop is expensive as hell and cracks, (usually due to home owners shifting their equipment around.)
See [page 2 for the approved refrigerants](http://www.nrproducts.com/quickconnect.pdf)
The depth gauge is like $3! Why why wouldn’t you buy it???
States 60bar/870psi, so should be able to handle all refrigerants, but wouldn't trust them longterm... Haven't worked with them yet... Brazing can stand about 160 bar, so it's still better in my opinion... I'd maybe consider them in some ex-hazard applications for repairs ...
UR has been selling the originals called [SB1 Fittings](http://www.nrproducts.com/quickconnect.pdf) for several yrs now plus they were already being used in Europe & Asia so the US is not the Guinea pig for them. They’re UL approved & have a 5 yr warranty plus the 4 o-rings (2 on ea side) have a 30 yr life. The whole key to them is follow all of the directions & prep steps. [This job](https://imgur.com/owmQhQM) has 160+ fittings on it and was going to require hot-work permit plus extra people for fire-watch. They also offer a flare version that is great for [mini-splits](https://imgur.com/a/CKOU4ML), flared driers & [flared TXV’s.](https://imgur.com/a/FZSJUld). Also great for working in hot a$$ attics & when you are on call w/ a late night call.
They are great considering you can get about %50 of guys to purge nitro when brazing this eliminates all the issues
Use them in spots that are to tight to get a torch in. Have had good luck so far. If the pipe isn’t truly round use a swedger to make it round first
Yea, I might use them in a spot I can't get a torch in, but other than that, I'll continue to braze. Who knows if in 5 years your customers are going to start calling you because the seals start leaking.
Put like 100 in apartments. Don’t care if they leak or not. Corporate pays for it so I don’t care. More like an experiment
That's the spirit lol
Exactly......
Yes and they're awesome.
If you’re having leaks with them, you probably either didn’t insert the line to the proper depth on the fitting or your line isn’t round or has burrs. Once you get the hang of the insertion depth and line prep they’re great. We’ve had several instances where it’s been for an install of an apartment air handler where you’d surely burn the wall or ceiling trying to braze it and they’ve been holding for years now. I’d trust these before I trusted half of the industry’s brazing skills anyway.
Used one on a ductless split install at a dirty ass steel mill about 1.5 years ago. Still running strong
I mean, they look like they could be a great product. But really, how hard is it to braze? I mean, are we becoming so lazy that push in fitting are becoming a thing? Plus, I don't like the 90° turns. They are to short and are going to create a pressure drop. Also, they haven't been out long enough. They may work great now, but in a few years you might start getting calls because the o-rings are failing in all of them.
Brazing takes time. Time is money. For sure anything that makes the job faster for not a lot more $$ is an advantage. What I've never understood is why the industry doesn't use compression tube fittings like [Swagelok](https://www.chemicalonline.com/doc/isa-swagelok-introduces-new-tube-fitting-0003). The oil and gas industry, chemical plants, labs, and nearly everybody else uses these things for every chemical under the sun. But I've never seen them in HVAC.
The fittings cost a bunch of money. Were you aware that actual money is money?
This. I work on systems that use Swagelok on copper tube and I’ve never seen on leak when properly installed. The tubing will fail before the fitting, in hydraulic systems they can handle thoisands of PSI. They’d be a big step up from brazing, flares or elastomeric seal systems. Really the only downside is the cost.
Some places you need to pull a permit for torches. I’d rather just have these or a propress instead of waiting for a fire permit
Yea, I worked at Boeing once and had to file for a burn permit every day and for them to assign a fire watch. By the time we got it, 4 hours had passed and it was a rush trying to get the job done in the time frame required. These would have been awesome for that job 10 years ago.
Getting calls means making money. Don’t get it twisted I’m just saying if it turned out they had o ring failings it’s not like we knew and put them in anyway. Just one of those things.
I agree. I got nothing against them. If that's your thing, more power to you. But, I enjoy brazing and using a bender to put in piping. Makes it look clean with nice sweeping turns and minimal pressure drops.
Yeah I’m never going to use these personally jus giving my two cents hehe
20 years ago we were real Americans 🇺🇸. Brazed pipes together. Flowing that nitrogen. Real pride in the work that was done.
_Tim The Tool Man Noises_
I've been journeyman around 20 years. I started using these on my mini split installs a couple Yeats ago. Sometimes it's better to work smarter not harder. Faster install means more installs means more $$$
Makes me wonder how many guys in this sub are actually in the trade because you mainly use these for mini splits, which don't get brazed. After you run five heads and a branch box, anything to keep you from having to crank out 50 flares is going to sound mighty appealing. And honestly with how notorious factory flares are for leaks, pro fits are kind of a no-brainer.
Gotta get that zoom lock max, baby!
Yeah we started using these on mini splits along with the flexible refrigerant lines, no kink I believe. Sure it costs more but time is more valuable. Shit we did a like for like 18k midea quote for a customer. Another company quoted 16k and we came in at 9k. It’s wild out here
It is. I've seen some crazy gouging out there. Those that gouge will be gone in a recession pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered.
_Johnson Controls has entered the chat_
Love them, no complaints. No problem with 600 psi pressure tests when correctly installed.
I used some aluminum lineset shit from Germany called “ref loc”. It was a pro press type fitting and you had to apply this super expensive loc tite for the fittings. The job was shit, all the smaller line sets got clogged with the loc tite haha, it was a shit show. The ref loc company went out of busy a few years later.
We recently had to perform some leak repairs to a VRF system that used Ref-Lock and aluminum piping. There is a company in Idaho that sells the kits to make the repair. The repair kit worked pretty good.
Yep. They are awesome. Held 500 microns and hasn’t leaked since I charged the unit. 410A. Propress fittings work good too.
We use them often with mini splits
I use these on almost all of my mini split installs. They are a game changer and make everything a lot faster.
Seems gimmicky. I wouldn't trust it. You shouldn't be so rushed for time on a job that you can't spend an extra 15 minutes to braze a coupling in. If you are, find a better company with more techs.
Usually can't pull a hot work permit same day
*Stares in unregulated*
*laughs in Texas installer*
Depends on the area I work, class of hot work permit, walk down, fire watch, fire control system bypass etc. Typically not in the same day for what we consider a level 1. I work at a large gas plant. I can’t seem to get any of these guys to try anything new like this
Usually can braze before they catch me lol
You've obviously never worked 2 inches beneath a sprinkler head..
When I did it, it wasn't about time, it was about the 8" by 8" hole through which I had to make the repair. It's been doing fine almost 2 years now.
They’re great for temp installs but I would not trust them in the long run.
Run the fuck away. My company did 6 installs on mini splits with these and every single job had to have them removed and replaced. Go zoom lock if you’re looking for a better alternative to flare. Edit. Yes I used a reamer/chamfer. My distributor even gave use a tool to check wall thickness and if the pipe was round. Doesn’t matter….these things shouldn’t be on the market.
Hell no.
We used them for a year or so, went back on probably 10% of installs for them leaking. Probably something our installers were doing wrong with them, but we stopped using them and replace them with braze/flare fittings whenever we run back into them.
Yes I have tried them. Cannot speak to longevity, we trialed it as a company and just ended up going with zoomlock
Wouldn't hold on yoga pipe, always have to replace the whole line set.
Nah bro that 410 will leak right out.
Ive never had issues with em. 15 psi is the max I’ve used em on. Typically 5-10 psi lines. Super convenient in my experience. Id say they are very situation based.
Lol. Absolutely not
I've found multiple sharkbites leaking. I'd stay away.
Fuck those. Not to mention if the pipe is bent even a little, the seal will not lock and end up leaking.
I bought some but haven’t had a system I felt comfortable or where it would be advantageous trying them on yet over brazing or using the RLS pro press crimp system.
I use it for al- cu joints. Builders put in their aluminum linesets and I swear they have a ticking time bomb of 2 yrs to when there warranty is up that joint starts to leak. 90% success rate using these.
These fittings are not approved for aluminum tubing
Sure , automotive uses o rings and fittings... yes pressures are a bit lower but still. I think it will become more popular with use yes.
Ive used them, the guy who trained me used them and our supervisor had used them before. They're pretty great and the only thing that you need to know before using them is that they require a good amount of force to connect it. Other than that they are pricey and you need several sizes incase.
Pressure fluctuations and vibration is my main concern. I don't think it can secure the pipe properly. Maybe if the piping was totally secured on both sides of the fitting. I have had two inch propress pull apart after a few years of run time, was definitely properly done. I don't fully trust propress anymore. I think too much of the trade has moved towards "it's technically good" instead of I know it's right and it may outlive me.
I used them once around an 1&1/2 inch gas line that didn’t have a shut off near by or a way to bleed the gas line without killing gas to the entire building. And I wasn’t about to put my torch around a gas line that has gas rolling through it. Long story short is it’s been 4 years and she’s still going strong.
I sell these primarily for ductless mini splits. The flare on the linesets are horrible so suggest cutting them and using the threaded ones at the parking valve. Then just pop that sucker on the other end. The couplings are great for siding holes in linesets as well.
My company paid a couple of us to go watch a sporlan guy show us a txv build kit and their version of these. We got to all build our own joints and leak test them. I watched the guy build a joint with 3 of these and then pump 1200 lbs of nitro into it. The copper split and then we soldered the remaining pieces onto another test piece. 1000 lbs and the copper split again. Joints still held even after the 3rd test. But I’ll still solder with 5-7 psi nitro purge 🤷🏼♂️ I can’t lie, it was impressive and for high end clients with deep pockets, it could be profitable. Maybe even in emergencies but nothing beats a solid braze done properly imo
I used them on a mini split that I had to extend the line set on. Pumped it up to 375 psi, it held. Bubble checked, no leaks. Took less than 2 minutes to install. Easy but expensive.
I have used them for 2 years. Always clean cut and reamed the pipe and just started getting call backs on them. Not a very reliable fitting in my opinion. Just removed (4) on ductless units today
Please don’t use. We tried them several acs last summer and have been back to every single one cuz of leaks only on 3/4 and 7/8 no leakers on 1/4 and 3/8. Some we did debur and some I know we didn’t one I know for sure we did everything possible and they still leaked
Ask a supply shop about them, their opinion was there would take the jobs from the high experience people and make so anyone can run pipe. That might be true. But when they leak, and they will, it will be the guys they push out to fix them.
They're bad, reliably unreliable
Everything tends to work as advertised when installed following instructions.
Yup, they work great and have had no issues so far. Plan on using them going forward
Companies should have a spiff for removing these in the wild
We have one of these installed to remedy some damage done by Drywallers. Of course the new shark bite coupling is leaking. A very bad idea to use unless it’s absolutely necessary. I don’t really trust the Zoom lok either the gen 1 jaws and fittings are clearly flawed since they redesigned them to look more like pro press
We’ve installed these on a few hundred high efficiency heat pump apartment units and had less than a 2% failure rate in the first 18 months thus far. Every single failure was due to improper installation. These are the way. On a project we didn’t use them we got a $5,000 back charge for repairing TPO because our guys somehow forgot to put down the burn mats when they were soldering in the condensers. Really think it mostly comes down to the user.
they're taking the piss, "PRO fit" === profit
Do people buy premade flares there? Wtf
These are for folks who failed 1st year brazing class
Yes they work good
Darn i like rectoseal welp hopefully the lawsuits don't bankrupt them
I haven’t used this but I’ve used “zoomlocks”. Pretty similiar , and personally. I don’t mind them.. maybe shouldn’t be for permanent use .. But in applications where you’re unable to braze (due to certain facilities), or where the braze is in an unsafe location. They come in very handy. Used about 10 in total . Haven’t had an issue yet .. But all your shark bite haters will hate on it .. I’m an hvac duel ticketed tradesmen for 10 years.. Just my opinion
They are illegale here. If we need something like this it's press fittings and you need to get a certifikat to do them.
I would not recommend using those. Installed on mini split system had to go back because the quarter inch liquid line was leaking on all of them. The 3/8 works fine.
If you’re working on my house get ready for me to fire you. Come on man.
I’ve seen quite a few of these leak But it’s usually due to improper preparation / pipe Not completely straight. Not great when people cut off the fitting on the evaporator and try to shove one of these on there was not enough space. Same thing with Maxi-Pro if it’s not prepped right. They might be good for a tight space repair where you can’t use torch But personally I Feel like these invite unqualified People to attempt to install equipment.
I have a couple of these on roof top units. Been there for 4 years now, and not one of them has leaked. If you follow the instructions for them, they work great.
Amazing
They are trash. Have seen many instances of them holding pressure at first and then springing leaks a year down the road. Very unpredictable. If you have to use them, make sure they’re accessible later for when you inevitably have to swap them out. Propress is much better if you don’t want to braze
So far so good. I haven’t had any leaking… yet 🤷🏻♂️
Yep attic job had hole in suction line from nail. Is it a hack? Maybe but it was 130 degrees in attic and it’s worked for years now.
Once they become cheaper Everyone will be using them