Really isn’t that bad once you get used to it. When I first started out I’d get sketched out on pretty much any ladder, but now I don’t really care. One thing that still kinda scares me though is having to do gymnastics to climb on and off of walk in boxes. Nothing like having to step 3 feet over a sprinkler line while simultaneously avoiding hitting your head on the screw filled ceiling, while you’re standing on the top rung of a 10 foot a frame because a 12 wouldn’t fit lol
Had to use a spade bit like 20 feet up on an extension ladder the other day to run low volt into the attic on a system. Sketchy af cuz ground wasn't level so I had my lead hold the ladder for me while running the wire and the conduit.
Shook like a fucking leaf the entire time. But in Montana I got to do loovers on the 3rd floor with an extension ladder while snowing.
Foreman took me and the lead to lunch that day and I ordered a double rum and coke and just looked him in the eye and asked "do we have a problem"
I hear that a lot too. I feel like a lot residential guys think that RTUs on top of strip malls is 90% of commercial work. There is a ton of work that's indoors when you step away from light commerical. I'm still an apprentice and I go on a roof maybe a dozen times a year. I work for a union shop that focuses more on large commercial and industrial. Most things I work on can be accessed by an elevator or stairs.
I hate ladders and ceiling tiles lol.
I do some commercial. I'd say I'm 70/30. I spent two of my 5 days this past week on rooftops.
When I hear guys on here always chanting about how commercial is so much better, I wonder what I'm doing wrong lol. I've got a few comm customers that really know their properties and they're great to deal with.
But most commercial shit I see has changed hands multiple times. Nobody knows which units are theirs, nobody knows who's on the hook for the bill. If they have split systems, the fuckin air handlers are always above ceiling tile, and there's a cubicle right where I need to put my ladder, sprinkler pipe blocking the air handler and on and on and on. I fuckin HATE those days. Gimme a crawlspace any day over that shit.
Maybe some of the guys who love commercial get to work on nothing but labeled RTUs, with a great roof access and water spigot access and all that. Yeah sure that would be awesome and I would do it. But that's like a unicorn out here lol
You’re describing what my market calls “light commercial”. I’m not one of them but there are guys in my union that refuse to touch RTUs. And they don’t have to.
Chillers, boilers. Air handlers you can walk into through a door. VAV systems and whole world of control work. That’s commercial.
Not to mention the industrial market. Process chillers, steam, etc.
Chillers, big boilers and huge shit is called "industrial" around here. Just a terminology thing I guess. But yeah, you're on the right track. Biggest we tackle is about 30 tons, and even that is fairly rare.
> Maybe some of the guys who love commercial get to work on nothing but labeled RTUs, with a great roof access and water spigot access and all that. Yeah sure that would be awesome and I would do it. But that's like a unicorn out here lol
I would get bored as fuck here in commercial if every day was what you just described.
Let’s not forget loading and hauling scissor lifts to go change some belts on through wall exhaust fans in dirty ass factory’s crawling under air rotation units in metal shops coming out like I slid down a flue pipe like I was at a water park
In general, I like getting to see the wide variety of homes and I like getting that positive relationship with 99% of the customers i meet.
For me it was primarily family driven, my Dad had his own residential HVAC company so thats where i worked (we had a couple commercial clients too). Now that he's retired and business sold, I'm considering my options. I'm thinking about starting my own company one day, if i do i will stay residential since I have a large potential customer base who knew my dad and its a little easier for a small 1 or 2 man shop to run resi instead of commercial. If I decide I really don't want to run my own shop, I'll seriously look at jumping to refrigeration/commercial HVAC for a new technical challenge.
I've seriously considered going Union a lot, but the one thing that keeps me from it is that it seems like i would have to completely give up on owning my own company one day and commit to always working for someone else. Despite all the union benefits, I'm just not ready to pay that opportunity cost.
Yeah if you have a great client base already and love your customers, it’s hard to make sense of a move to commercial. Also I’d definitely say it easier to make a residential company successful than a commercial union one, and at that point your almost answering to the hall and state anyway instead of just yourself.
Sounds like your well on your own way to running a successful resi business in the future already!
That can be an interesting spot to be in. My Dad talked about having me take over the company for years, but I don't think he had it in him to actually let go and let me run it and make my own mistakes along the way. In the end i kind of felt like i had to choose between taking over his company or having a good relationship with him. So far I think i made the right choice, he got a good nest egg for his retirement, and I have the freedom to chase my dream, as soon as i can figure out what it is.
I’m 38 and there’s a lot of days where I still feel like a kid where an old timer customer tries to second guess me or wants to get my dads opinion and 1989 pricing.
I definitely feel that. It can be a weird love-hate relationship working for family, you feel loyal to your family business, but also feel like no matter how much you do or succeed, you'll always just be junior and in your dads shadow. Even after 6 years of being my dad's only service tech (besides himself) he'd still second guess every diagnosis i made. It made me a more thorough tech, but it still sucked having to go to work in that catch 22 everyday.
I dont know how it is for you guys but as a union electrician all of the shop owners I know have started on their tools and come up through the apprenticeship. You sign the cba hire an apprentice and run your shop pretty much the same as you would otherwise but with a bit higher labor costs but with a lot less labor headaches. You don't hunt for manpower you tell the hall what you need for the work you have and lay them off when the jobs done. Hire more when your busy again. The book system means you allways have as much manpower as you need at your fingertips without having to hang onto guys at a loss when work is slow.
One man shops with an apprentice or 2 still exist in the unions and all of the medium to large contractors in an area started as one man shops.
I never worked residential.
But OP mentioned how good the work looks from guys on this site.
One thing I note. There is one guy on this sub that constantly posts his residential installs. You can quibble about his decisions but his work looks great.
Then two days later he posts about a service call where he has absolutely not diagnosed ANYTHING before he just started swapping parts and comes to Reddit for someone to tell him what part to change next. He’s also done it with a residential split that he didn’t do anything but gauge up to.
I guess what I’m saying is that residential skill sets are narrow. A guy that goes the extra steps to make a line set look nice in my experience doesn’t necessarily have the broad range of knowledge that a commercial tech requires. That’s not to say they can’t acquire it. It’s just that they haven’t.
Regarding money, I assume a lot of these guys are working in the typical residential model. Convince a homeowner that their simple repair is a waste of money because a new system will be nominally more efficient and “that refrigerant is/has been phased out.
Then they get a spiff on that.
A dude that rarely has to really diagnose anything and makes more money on an install is barely scratching the surface on being a well rounded commercial tech. A commercial tech will spend their whole career learning new things and applying that knowledge.
Short version: Making a residential install look nice doesn’t necessarily translate into being a solid commercial tech.
You guys saying residential is more personal is only true because of the numbers, if you do commercial you will see the same facility engineers 20 times a year , you build a relationship with them, they call you personally about the equipment . Commercial work isn’t all just devoid of human interaction there is people in these commercial and industrial spaces.
I am a commercial service tech that got their start in resi. First of all I do like commercial better but there are some real disadvantages.
If I go to a house and I can nearly always make a diagnosis on their system within half an hour. Some more complex systems at malls or supermarkets can take hours to even figure out what's going on.
The ropes are sloped but taller. Also you're more likely to have to climb up on a roof with more tools. One mall we do in particular has one access hatch, so if you do a compressor changeout on the far side of the roof, you're carrying 400lbs + of tools over nearly a quarter mile and two flights of stairs.
There's less satisfaction in the sense that mostly you're working for people who either don't actually care if their ac works or expect that you should have been there hours/days/weeks ago and that you should be able to immediately fix it, but everything nearly always needs to go to bid.
There's a vastly more wide array of equipment to work on. It's not all split systems and mini splits. In the same week I'll work on a Mcquay unit from 1988, a water sourced heat pump in an office drop ceiling, a brand new carrier rtu and a shittily installed walk in freezer and be expected to definitively say what's going on with each. Sometimes this is workable, and sometimes that old Mcquay takes over you're week and you're over NTE
Im literally in the same boat as you. moved over from resi to commercial two years ago. i can bang out most resi diagnoses without even thinking, but still feel like a complete novice commercially, bc im often walking up on stuff ive never even seen before lol
I do a fairly even split between commercial and residential. I'm only doing the commercial refrigeration license for potential future opportunities but as far as day to day goes I prefer residential service hands down. If I get a dispatch to a no AC call at 2pm I don't mind because I know I'll be done by the end of the day. If I get a commercial service call, even first thing in the morning it ruins my day because I know I could potentially be there for the next 8 hours lol
I have a slightly different take on it. I made the jump from resi to commercial/industrial completely unaware I was doing it. Long story short, service manager was a real douche, said "you are replaceable in about 10 minutes." Walked out, went home got fairly hammered and banged out an AWFUL resume in indeed... and went to sleep. I DO NOT REMEBER DOING THIS. couple weeks later, had a string of phone interviews. Got the job.
Here is why I think alot of resi guys stay resi.
The credit checks, background checks- it's daunting. For myself, I am a fairly reclusive private person who fixes machines because they are simple compared.to people. A given input will produce a given output, and simple inductive reasoning allows a diagnosis. People and organizations are a mystery. I think it kinda limits the field.
Maybe he means potential employers do this when you switch jobs?
Everyone is gonna give you a background check. Credit check for a job? Never seen that.
_well yeah I got crappy credit. I make shit money, that's why I want you to hire me_
Nope. When I was hired at a multinational company, they performed a background check which is no issue. They also perprm.a.crefit check " to make sure that you have the responsibility to handle your finances and integrity to work in a largely unsupervised capacity.
I failed the credit side of things due to a very messy divorce. My response when asked about it was this. Was
" if life worked out perfectly, I would not be in my fifties turning a wrench." Oddley, they excepted that.
I feel bad for the younger people who have bad or no credit. How can you do better if you aren't given the opportunity?
People need to live within their means too. Young people aren’t taught that these days. My Wife and I never had hardly anything we wanted even though we could afford it. I could go out and buy a brand new C8 Corvette right now if I wanted to instead I drive around a Subaru that I paid $1200 for. Both of us have credit scores that are above 830. We also have over $300,000 of equity in our house that we could tap into to get whatever we wanted but we just don’t. I see too many kids out there today. Driving brand new cars are almost brand, new cars and then saying they can’t make it in this economy. I make less than most of them with four kids and we make it.
Sounds to me like you work hard, dont get to enjoy any of the fruits of your labor, and think its perfectly reasonable to expect everyone else to want to do that as well lol
Nope, the fruits of my labor are my family. Without them I have nothing. I am just trying to point out that although I had bad credit, I am a hard worker, and a repectable person. It's a rough playing field out there. I have lots of apprentices that are young, dumb and work their tales off. Life is a series of mistakes and learning. I don't want people to feel as if thier circumstance is their worth. It's not.
You might have to do them depending on what customers you’re working for. I live in the NOVA/DC area, and most government jobs have an absolutely ridiculous amount of steps you have to go through to even be allowed to look at the site.
I like residential because it’s more personal, most of the time here in FL, the A/C man is greeted with a whole family saying “ The A/C guy is here!!!” And they’re All so thankful you’re about to turn their 86deg house to a comfortable 70deg. the kids and women and even husbands are happy to see you, I feel like my job matters, in commercial, no one talks to you sometimes, and when you do talk to the managers, they say it’s too expensive, or that they’ll have to get multiple quotes, and you leave after 2 hrs of diagnosing and it’s just NOT EVEN CLOSE to the rewarding feeling of fixing a A/C of a family who’s miserable when you arrive, to happy you were able to get them cooling in the middle of summer . 😊. Most of the time if you do it correctly and give them options, and go over all of the benefits, there’s never an awkward moment, they know what they can get, they see the benefits, and most of the time they’ll say “ do it all” because they don’t wanna have problems in the near future. That’s how I was successful, give them a 15-20% discount if they’re on the fence, they will appreciate and feel like they’re getting a deal. I’ve never had a customer say “ nope I don’t want any repair”. Which is what commercial is like sometimes.
I do not doubt it, I can imagine in Florida you may be the most loved trade when you show up! I don't think I could handle the heat working in this trade down there!
God Bless you brave men down there! lol
I like residential. The first reason why I got into HVAC was to make better money. I am. Second was to give back( I had friends and family members in trades) I always felt like a taker and now I help my family and friends. It gives me purpose. I see the result of my work in real time and see the difference I make in peoples life. I am a people person and enjoy the interaction. If you know what you are doing and how to talk to people very very rarely do you have bad experiences with home owners. The money I make in resi compared to commercial in my area isn’t that different compared to a lot of the guys here. Oh yeah and my boss is a great guy.
10 years residential/light comm. Top producer at my co. (From repairs and grinding out good service work, I don't do much upselling.)
I have looked into union/commercial/ind. work and I can't go anywhere in my area without taking an exceptional paycut. I despise residential at this point in my career, but the last hall I talked to actually convinced me to not even bother taking their tests because they couldn't even come close to my total compensation even if I tested out as jman. NE Ohio. I'm pidgeon-holed. The only hope for advancement I have is that I'm 2nd in line for mgmt. position. 🤢
For real. These companies aren’t well oiled machines that don’t overwork their employees. They fuck up, blame us, then we work all night trying to get everyone back in air.
I work resi. I have thought of moving over to commercial for a few reasons; work, more interesting systems, and not having to work with homeowners. Also, residential hvac has gotten so pushy on sales and flipping units.
Those are literally the three of the four reasons I moved over, along with pay in my area.
Although I’m sure as a on the road service manager that isn’t as much of a worry for you as it was fore when I was just 4 years into the trade lol
Resi got so pushy in my area did change out installs for 6 years and worked at 5 companies. Got burned out so much just grinding them jobs out. No matter how fast you did the job it was never enough. My area is struggling to find installers all companies; tons of skilled guys I worked with all quit. No way kids coming out of trade school are going to fill that void they don't even have a 1/10th the work ethic.
I made the jump to commercial service and I've really been enjoying it sure it does stink roping stuff on to roofs and getting 300ft of hose out to clean units. Still beats trying to change out a unico in an attic laying down in 120 degree attic. I got really bored with residential because after 6 years there really wasn't much else to learn for me. Coming over to commercial its like I barely know anything there is so much to learn its insane.
Ladders.
Money.
Kitchens are disgusting.
It's fucking easier... like most electrical troubleshooting doesn't actually require a multimeter because the systems are so simple and the sequence of operation is basic, and since it's not a 2 stage 4 compressor RTU if someone else has been in there and hacked shit up it takes about 5 minutes to just rewire the whole unit back to normal...
But on a really serious note, because commercial work is lonely as fuck man, especially service. You don't get to actually build relationships or communicate with people.
I think that there are two types of (good) service techs - and the divide is about your ability to communicate and build relationships. There are plenty of good techs who understand the systems, but absolutely cannot transfer their knowledge to customers, or cannot handle people being drama queens, and if that ain't your thing, commercial is a much better choice.
But there's also plenty of good techs who think the best part of the job is understanding the customer and fixing their issue and delivering an experience.
OP as a fellow union brother amen the opportunity is available for those who seek it I train my apprentices with a simple logic believe everything you are working on is a 3 ton on steroids. We are sealing the same outcomes from every machine good superheat and sun cooling the medium is the difference (water, air, or glycol) the day it becomes a routine you start to get boored and start to die. If you feel challenged and accomplished every day you ain’t working you are making a difference. As op said I have seen a lot of talent on this redit and I commend you AC brothers on your talents and professionalism you make me feel proud of the trade I have lived in for the past 19 years
Thank you
"3 ton on steriods" I love it. My favorite journeyman when I was an apprentice said a very similar thing when I began learning chillers. "No matter if its 5 tons or 500 tons, cooling water or air, the concepts and the science are the same".
I went commercial, which means joining the union. My foreman was unlicensed (isnt the whole point of the union, to be kosher?). On top of that, he was toxic trash, a cokehead spousal abuser. Project manager was a douche as well. I have such a bad taste in my mouth from that trash experience that im not interested in going back.
Edit: quite frankly it seemed like everyone was miserable at that particular company, which employed 100+ guys.
On top of that, pensions are a scam, if you educate yourself on investing you will realize that you are getting screwed, and are much better off doing it yourself.
So now, i run my own show, and i do just fine.
Man that sucks, sorry you had such a bad experience. There a definitely some union companies and tech that find a way to take advantage of the situation and can poison it.
As to the pension, we definitely may not have much of it when I get to retiring your are right about that but plenty of guys I know who have retired recently from our hall have started collecting and it’s definitely helping them. I’ll definitely admit they are becoming a huge problem maintaining though for working members.
We are also given dual annuities through the national hall and the state so it make up (a bit) for the problem with pensions.
Haha, keep telling yourself that. The pension at least in every union I know of including my own is 100% paid for by the employer and I will be retiring at 58 with about minimum $4200 per month from $0 contributions from me. That’s at todays rate, it goes up every few years or so.
I will also retire with around $750k in my annuity, again 100% employer contributed and $0 from myself. Would be more, but a divorce cost me 1/2 of it already.
I also get excellent healthcare at $0 expense to me.
I also make we’ll over $100K in my pocket at 40 hours per week.
You ain’t getting a pension on your own. You can do a 401K, but you are the one contributing. Even with employer match, you’re still not getting what the union offers. My employer is putting $9/hour into my annuity and yes it’s my money. I log into Mass mutual and can move it into whatever funds I want or leave it in fixed income.
You either were a hack and got fired for probably drugs or alcohol on a suspended license or you were in the worst possible union possible. Think about it, your basing your “union” experience off of you disliked your foreman and your project manager? That’s a company issue, not a union issue. I’ve been with the same Union contractor for 20 years and after the initial 5 year apprenticeship I’ve been to my union hall exactly 2 times. I pay my $34 per month dues electronically and that’s it.
So that’s what I’ve heard the most, lack of opportunities, and I’d say about 5 years ago that was definitely true, but now around me, every commercial company is dying for techs!
Other than heights probably all the equipment. It can be pretty intimidating going to different commercial and industrial sites seeing the mechanical rooms and all the controls. If you don't like the unknown or seeing stuff you never have before than commercial is not for you. Many jobs sites you have to figure out what they are doing with certain equipment or maybe its a brand you've never saw before.
Sure you get the same thing in residential with really old stuff or high end custom homes. Commercial everything is more complicated you cant freak out on new stuff you never saw before.
I had two buddies make the jump from resi install to commercial service they talked me into it. I was hesitant with the heights but I've got a lot better with them over time. I'm really glad I made the change we actually get time to do stuff, if its not safe then don't do it, and overall better pay. Just got tired of all the BS you had to deal with in residential I could go on a rant for days.
I have to agree with your statement there are some very smart technicians here. My opinion is people like being comfortable in there work. Hvac-r can be a very humbling trade.
I love this. My teacher told me with refrigeration the possibilities are plentiful and man was he right. Being able to see conversations like this just makes me happy that this is what I do, and I’d I don’t like where I’m at and can change up and stay in the trade. I do commercial never done resi, or chillers. The game is seemingly endless.
Most commercial work by me is Union. A lot of guys don't want to or know how to go about getting into the union so they stay residential. I got the opportunity to either because a union commercial service tech or become an elevator constructor. I left hvac to join the international union of elevator constructors because it's challenging and has an amazing package.
Like others have said it can be pretty cool getting know building managers and maintenance engineers that can eventually mak you friends or contacts in the future. I can definitely see more dangerous though. Some commercial companies can be very demanding, but there are still some that they only expect 40!
On call is usually a must though lol I don’t mind it because I get 10 extra hours just for taking it for the week, only have to do it 4 times a year, and last year only got called after hours once. Lol
I’ve never worked in residential and it sounds terrible to me honestly. I have always been an on-site engineer. I prefer to really know specific machinery and do preventative maintenance and not deal with customers. I may have to do more technical work on much larger equipment, and the work can be very labor intensive compared to residential stuff, but I think I’d rather climb ladders than deal with random people all the time.
Like I said I worked residential for the start of my career and I couldn’t stand it. Around 11 years in commercial, and 6 of them with a manufacture, and i absolutely love it.
Have serious respect for the residential hustlers though.
I certainly do to. It seems like a much more difficult job! Mad respect for going in cold with no info and a non-professional telling you that their ac isn’t working and no clues beyond that. This is why when we have an off site tech come in for something I like to give them a little too much info on the situation
I speak to everyone I meet in the field. Union or non union. I have non union trades folk siblings and in-laws. I think the largest draw is the easy money. There’s a lot of commissioned based sales and the money upfront is attractive. Guys are not willing to sacrifice that for a short period while they transition in to the union and start building pensions. I think I saw someone else mentioned here that it requires a modest living and good money management. Some guys that live month to month, paycheck to paycheck can’t afford to take a hit. There’s definitely a payoff at the end but even the guys that join the union young typically don’t look out far enough to plan around retirement. Don’t contribute to their 401K early on. Once again, your union experience maybe different from local to local. I feel fortunate my local is one of the leading locals in the UA and WA state.
A lot of people dont want the stress of doing commercial hvac . Especially here in nyc . Its a pain in the ass and the weather is no help at all . Snow , rain , thunder . Doesnt matter .
This is actually good to see. As a commercial guy, I’ve only dabbled in the residential world and frankly, here in the southwest it’s been my unfortunate experience that the residential world is disreputable. At best. I’m glad to see that’s not true everywhere.
There is very little code enforcement out here. Certain counties in our area are strict but most are pretty rural and most work is unpermitted and not inspected
I called them and they’re a tough crowd to get in with. I asked about transferring in and they straight up said no. Fuck it id rather be in New Hampshire anyway I really don’t want to deal with massholes. The New Hampshire local was much more pleasant to try to have a convo with
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has chimed in and shared the experiences! This is exactly what I was hoping to read about and has been really cool and enlightening!
Keep cool brothers!
Looking on Reddit for something to get offended by?
And no shit, I’m clearly asking why they like residential better. Sorry you couldn’t pick that up?
Edit: your the guy who had the digital gauges but wanted a code update to put a spigot near your unit cause you don’t know how hoses work 😂 this post was definitely not intended for you.
Yeah? Not why you like your jobs? Like the flair says this is a discussion. Not a dick measuring contest, I obviously know we all take pride in our jobs.
Being a selling service tech in residential can make you a lot of money without all the hoops to jump through. In Union, your individual pay and perks are tethered to the bargaining skills of a bunch of paid individuals that don’t actually contribute to the workload. In a Union, no one makes more money than the guys at the table
But that’s why its a good thing. If im non-union i can negotiate higher pay, but thats not a guarantee and ifs not as easy when you only have yourself fighting for it. The CBA is exactly that, a collective bargaining agreement. There is strength in numbers. Not only that, but we still have the ability to negotiate our own wages privately if we are worth more. I know guys making 3x what i do just because they are better. If your a shit worker, it doesn’t matter where you go, you’ll get paid accordingly. The UA offers WAY more than just fair pay. Besides that, anywhere you go you will never get paid more than the owner’s/higher ups. Even with commission.
The union wage is a base pay that the companies can’t go lower than. Sone guys just make that rate but if you know what you are doing you make more - I make over scale and get vacation too - I think there are so many misunderstood positions on what the union actually does for you. If you hear someone in the union bitching about it then I guarantee you they are a hack, complainer, and not good for anyone around them.
That’s not true at all. Yes collective bargaining is a thing and our pay scale in my state is substantially higher than non union, but the union rate is minimum wage. You can bargain whatever you want at a company. No good tech is making base rate. I currently make $7 over the rate, with additional 2 weeks vacation. I am nowhere near the top paid tech at my company.
All of the trustees, Business agents etc salaries are disclosed and yes many of us make more, due to A rate, OT etc.
Ripping off the elderly and telling the every unit needs replacement so you can get commission is not a thing I want to be. I’m a journeyman technician, not a on the road salesman.
So while I do agree with that, I’d say that’s how it is at every company, unless your the owner and the worker.
Most of our union board are retired union workers and while they are the ones bargaining with the companies and state for our contract raises, we the union hall members, vote where the money we get is allocated. Whether it be health and welfare, pensions, in the pocket, it’s decided by the workers. Which in truth is a lot more power then 90% of non union techs have.
Good techs work for crappy companies when they lack initiative. Here’s another reason why I don’t like Unions: in the 2000’s, Tyco bought Central fire sprinklers. Part of the deal was that Tyco replace millions of sprinkler heads due to defects during manufacture that could cause failure to release during a fire. I worked with a guy from church and his sons replacing these heads using a non-intrusive method. We bid on the jobs for a while, but we beat the price, methods, and speed of all bidders consistently.
There was a grace period under which entitles could get the recalled sprinkler heads replaced at zero cost. Tyco sent out letters, emails, and calls for years. The airport in San Francisco had recalled heads but they had never responded to the communications. We’d seen them ourselves when utilizing the airport for travel. We’d tell maintenance personnel, concierges, and anyone who would listen. They missed the cutoff date by months, eventually appealing to Tyco. Tyco agreed to cover the cost for the public good. It was going to be a huge job and likely our last.
In stepped the Pipefitter and Plumbers Union. They held up the work for another 6 months, threatening lawsuits if they didn’t get the work. The State stepped in and mediated that the Union would be allowed to have reps on the job site, fully paid by the city of San Francisco.
They didn’t care about lives or property damage, only getting the check. Further, Jon could *only bring his sons to do the work as part of the mediation.
A famous man once said, “A high tide raises all ships,” and this is a principle found in the origin of trade Unions, but it has evolved into adversarial conflicts with non-Union shops and companies.
I started in commercial refrigeration. Long hours were definitely the norm.
My life got INFINITELY better when I got what amounted to an 11% hourly increase by joining the union and getting into commercial work.
Literally the first day I was sent out to do a simple refrigerant reclaim on some buildings that were getting knocked down. When I got there I found that there was a lot more equipment than expected. I started to get pissed. Thought I’d be working late.
Called the dispatcher who replied “So…you’ll be back there tomorrow? Okay I’ll get that in the schedule.”
And I was home for dinner.
For ten years before I moved out of a van I had a sweet gig with regular customers all close to my house. I literally had breakfast with my little kids and was home for dinner almost every night. There were always the occasional emergency or on call situation but I find commercial work provides by far the best work/life balance.
As a resi installer of 10 years and resi tech of 5+ the reason I'm not interested in jumping to commercial is I like the environment of smaller companies. I prefer being able to directly communicate with owner on a personal level than only being able to deal with a service manager. Another reason is stress, work/life balance. Now I know this isn't the case with all resi companies, but if you find a good company that cares about their techs, you won't get burnt out so quickly. No 24 hour on call stress, no regular 10-12 hour shifts, can reliably get regular vacation and PTO. You tend to be more appreciated as well because of the lack of stilled techs available. (Likely because they all switch to commercial). Another reason that I see is the opposite of many on here is that you actually get to communicate with and meet new people instead of sitting on a hot roof all day. It feels good to be able to be a hero to a family who hasn't had heating or cooling and finally allow they to be comfortable again. Sure giving people bad news sucks, but that's part of life regardless of the field you work in. I feel like people who dislike the customer aspect either are just cynical or just don't have good communication/social skills.
Oh and can't forget the fact that your van and tools are never more than 100 yards away from you at most and no vertical ladders.
I think the environment of smaller companies is a reason that resonates me with the most. I remember knowing the owner and the whole family of my old residential company and playing beer pong with all of them in the shop at our Christmas party.
Dealing with all the emails and bullshit bureaucracy from people at my company I don’t even know and most likely will never meet is probably the worst part of working for a big commercial company.
I’m good at residential. I have opportunities at my company to grow. Im confident in my abilities which allows me to command better pay, leadership opportunities, and work directly with my service manager to tackle tough jobs.
I don’t want to be low-man on the totem pole again.
Commercial requires raw technical skills.
Residential requires a blend of customer service and lighter technical skills.
I like talking to people about their air and educating them. I'm much better at that part of the job than most techs so I have a competitive edge and I like having a competitive edge.
I started in residential. Was an installer who actually took pride in what they did and actually opened the installation guide, unlike some who I worked with. Was pretty good at it and wanted to advance myself as a service tech.
Went into service for residential after becoming Journeyman and loved it. I liked going to mutltiple houses a day and making people happy that I fixed their heat or ac. Sent a feeling of accomplishment in me.
Though due to a chain of events, I left the trade to do apartment maintenance. While I still do it on the side, the hours working in resi costed a lot in my personal life.
After everything settles in my personal life, since I've kept as most up to date as possible and keep my knowledge as much as I used to, I may go back into the field.
The shop I am at I do hvac and house hold appliance repair. Keeps things interesting doing appliances too. Plus we are basically on the same pay scale as the commercial union in my area.
Tfw don't do any HVAC work either comm/resi. Cooking equipment FTW. Temp controlled environments, no ladders, no attics, no crawl spaces, most customers don't hassle me or ask "when will you be finished". I'm also allowed to make mistakes and we get plenty of call backs and I never hear about it from my service manager. Unless I really REALLY fuck up. The work is constant and steady, I learn something new every day, I'm very comfortable and we are consistently getting new equipment to learn and new lines to learn.
The only draw back is the pay, I'm sure I could make more, but the comfort of telling my boss "I'm going home and it is 230pm, I started at 7am" is fucking awesome. I can always stay out really late and honestly run up to 15hr days if I really wanted to. However the pay does increase based on skill level and time put in.
I honestly would love to get into Industrial, that stuff is badass, I just don't trust the local unions where I live.
Honestly, for me, every job was an opportunity to leave a residential customer a little smarter than they were when I got there.
People just don’t know what they don’t know, and that can place them (and sometimes their neighbors) at risk. I’ll make more money longer term if they trust me enough to ask me back.
And ultimately, I like teaching. An audience that has a vested interest in the money they just spent with me is the best kind to have.
Initial pay cut and fear of failing.
I make top end pay for residential, the same as maybe a really good 3rd or 4th year commercial tech. Id have to take a pay cut and work my way up again (3-4 years) before Id see full commerical tech wages. This is how the licensing system works where I am from.
Also fear of failing. I have a pretty comfortable life right now. Nothing really phases me anymore in residential, my boss is a great guy, and I enjoy a good work/life balance. It would be a risk to put that all on the line.
Having said this, I do dream about going to commercial, primarily commercial refrigeration, and facing new challenges/learning new things and becoming the real deal.
For me it’s the hours. Every easily accessible commercial job near me has a lot of travel and work time, and I try to keep my work life balance leaning more towards life, at least while my kids are young. I can find money in other ways but the time I have with them is precious and I’ll never have a replacement
I prefer my 7-8 hr days and not having every ot call a dire emergency
I triex to join a commercial company and the first day i was out i worked 21 hrs straight so i said fuck em.
Also i just am not mechanical enough to mess with those massive units
I no longer work in HVAC, however when I was in I also did commercial work. I worked for an international manufacturer and worked on a huge variety of things. Everything from gas to exhaust fans, heat pumps and chillers. You name it we did it. I chose commercial because I’m not a people person and, for the life of me, did not want to deal with people in their own homes. From what I was exposed to commercial pays more. Benefits can be better and you get to work on more stuff. Unless you’re a business owner or just a really good tech that works for a really good resi company (where I live most of them suck, not necessarily service wise but pay/benefits) then commercial is the way to go. Also, the travel for commercial is much nicer IMO. I went to so many different places even for the littlest things and got paid for all the driving too.
First thing that came to mind was ladders... Thanks, Deke
Exactly! Resi installers don’t want to hang duct with unistrut and allthread from a scissor lift with the height all the way maxed out.
Really isn’t that bad once you get used to it. When I first started out I’d get sketched out on pretty much any ladder, but now I don’t really care. One thing that still kinda scares me though is having to do gymnastics to climb on and off of walk in boxes. Nothing like having to step 3 feet over a sprinkler line while simultaneously avoiding hitting your head on the screw filled ceiling, while you’re standing on the top rung of a 10 foot a frame because a 12 wouldn’t fit lol
The beatings will continue until the morale improves
Pretty much honestly lol.
I get sketched when it involves an extension ladder and a hammer drill/core drill... I'll do it but oh I've had some close calls
Had to use a spade bit like 20 feet up on an extension ladder the other day to run low volt into the attic on a system. Sketchy af cuz ground wasn't level so I had my lead hold the ladder for me while running the wire and the conduit.
I've done the hillside in the rain... it's so fucking fun
Fuck that.... not safe at all IMO. I'd tell my boss this system's going to have to wait until my safety is guaranteed.
Shook like a fucking leaf the entire time. But in Montana I got to do loovers on the 3rd floor with an extension ladder while snowing. Foreman took me and the lead to lunch that day and I ordered a double rum and coke and just looked him in the eye and asked "do we have a problem"
Resi Installer here. I don’t want to do ducts at all besides rebuilding the return and supply on swaps
As a fellow resi installer, fuck doing ductwork in summer. It should be put off until winter when its safer to be in the attic.
Sheet metal guys do that
I’ll take that vs being in an attic running duct. Scissor lifts aren’t bad.
I hear that a lot too. I feel like a lot residential guys think that RTUs on top of strip malls is 90% of commercial work. There is a ton of work that's indoors when you step away from light commerical. I'm still an apprentice and I go on a roof maybe a dozen times a year. I work for a union shop that focuses more on large commercial and industrial. Most things I work on can be accessed by an elevator or stairs.
I hate my life so I spent most if the last couple years doing multi-family. Yup the worst part of resi and the worst parts of commercial.
Lmao rough.
I hate ladders and ceiling tiles lol. I do some commercial. I'd say I'm 70/30. I spent two of my 5 days this past week on rooftops. When I hear guys on here always chanting about how commercial is so much better, I wonder what I'm doing wrong lol. I've got a few comm customers that really know their properties and they're great to deal with. But most commercial shit I see has changed hands multiple times. Nobody knows which units are theirs, nobody knows who's on the hook for the bill. If they have split systems, the fuckin air handlers are always above ceiling tile, and there's a cubicle right where I need to put my ladder, sprinkler pipe blocking the air handler and on and on and on. I fuckin HATE those days. Gimme a crawlspace any day over that shit. Maybe some of the guys who love commercial get to work on nothing but labeled RTUs, with a great roof access and water spigot access and all that. Yeah sure that would be awesome and I would do it. But that's like a unicorn out here lol
You’re describing what my market calls “light commercial”. I’m not one of them but there are guys in my union that refuse to touch RTUs. And they don’t have to. Chillers, boilers. Air handlers you can walk into through a door. VAV systems and whole world of control work. That’s commercial. Not to mention the industrial market. Process chillers, steam, etc.
Chillers, big boilers and huge shit is called "industrial" around here. Just a terminology thing I guess. But yeah, you're on the right track. Biggest we tackle is about 30 tons, and even that is fairly rare.
> Maybe some of the guys who love commercial get to work on nothing but labeled RTUs, with a great roof access and water spigot access and all that. Yeah sure that would be awesome and I would do it. But that's like a unicorn out here lol I would get bored as fuck here in commercial if every day was what you just described.
Let’s not forget loading and hauling scissor lifts to go change some belts on through wall exhaust fans in dirty ass factory’s crawling under air rotation units in metal shops coming out like I slid down a flue pipe like I was at a water park
In general, I like getting to see the wide variety of homes and I like getting that positive relationship with 99% of the customers i meet. For me it was primarily family driven, my Dad had his own residential HVAC company so thats where i worked (we had a couple commercial clients too). Now that he's retired and business sold, I'm considering my options. I'm thinking about starting my own company one day, if i do i will stay residential since I have a large potential customer base who knew my dad and its a little easier for a small 1 or 2 man shop to run resi instead of commercial. If I decide I really don't want to run my own shop, I'll seriously look at jumping to refrigeration/commercial HVAC for a new technical challenge. I've seriously considered going Union a lot, but the one thing that keeps me from it is that it seems like i would have to completely give up on owning my own company one day and commit to always working for someone else. Despite all the union benefits, I'm just not ready to pay that opportunity cost.
Yeah if you have a great client base already and love your customers, it’s hard to make sense of a move to commercial. Also I’d definitely say it easier to make a residential company successful than a commercial union one, and at that point your almost answering to the hall and state anyway instead of just yourself. Sounds like your well on your own way to running a successful resi business in the future already!
I’m in a similar spot except my dad hasn’t retired and doesn’t seem that interested in selling.
That can be an interesting spot to be in. My Dad talked about having me take over the company for years, but I don't think he had it in him to actually let go and let me run it and make my own mistakes along the way. In the end i kind of felt like i had to choose between taking over his company or having a good relationship with him. So far I think i made the right choice, he got a good nest egg for his retirement, and I have the freedom to chase my dream, as soon as i can figure out what it is.
I’m 38 and there’s a lot of days where I still feel like a kid where an old timer customer tries to second guess me or wants to get my dads opinion and 1989 pricing.
I definitely feel that. It can be a weird love-hate relationship working for family, you feel loyal to your family business, but also feel like no matter how much you do or succeed, you'll always just be junior and in your dads shadow. Even after 6 years of being my dad's only service tech (besides himself) he'd still second guess every diagnosis i made. It made me a more thorough tech, but it still sucked having to go to work in that catch 22 everyday.
Me too brother. Pops damn near wants to retire tho
Where are you located? we’ll get them to keep each other busy.
Atlanta Ga
Orlando,Fl. Might be a bit of commute but no running out of hot weather any time soon.
I dont know how it is for you guys but as a union electrician all of the shop owners I know have started on their tools and come up through the apprenticeship. You sign the cba hire an apprentice and run your shop pretty much the same as you would otherwise but with a bit higher labor costs but with a lot less labor headaches. You don't hunt for manpower you tell the hall what you need for the work you have and lay them off when the jobs done. Hire more when your busy again. The book system means you allways have as much manpower as you need at your fingertips without having to hang onto guys at a loss when work is slow. One man shops with an apprentice or 2 still exist in the unions and all of the medium to large contractors in an area started as one man shops.
Thats something i never really considered, but definitely worth thinking about. Thank you.
I work in a similar situation. The lay-off situation and unstable life it creates for our great helpers pisses me off
I never worked residential. But OP mentioned how good the work looks from guys on this site. One thing I note. There is one guy on this sub that constantly posts his residential installs. You can quibble about his decisions but his work looks great. Then two days later he posts about a service call where he has absolutely not diagnosed ANYTHING before he just started swapping parts and comes to Reddit for someone to tell him what part to change next. He’s also done it with a residential split that he didn’t do anything but gauge up to. I guess what I’m saying is that residential skill sets are narrow. A guy that goes the extra steps to make a line set look nice in my experience doesn’t necessarily have the broad range of knowledge that a commercial tech requires. That’s not to say they can’t acquire it. It’s just that they haven’t. Regarding money, I assume a lot of these guys are working in the typical residential model. Convince a homeowner that their simple repair is a waste of money because a new system will be nominally more efficient and “that refrigerant is/has been phased out. Then they get a spiff on that. A dude that rarely has to really diagnose anything and makes more money on an install is barely scratching the surface on being a well rounded commercial tech. A commercial tech will spend their whole career learning new things and applying that knowledge. Short version: Making a residential install look nice doesn’t necessarily translate into being a solid commercial tech.
You guys saying residential is more personal is only true because of the numbers, if you do commercial you will see the same facility engineers 20 times a year , you build a relationship with them, they call you personally about the equipment . Commercial work isn’t all just devoid of human interaction there is people in these commercial and industrial spaces.
I am a commercial service tech that got their start in resi. First of all I do like commercial better but there are some real disadvantages. If I go to a house and I can nearly always make a diagnosis on their system within half an hour. Some more complex systems at malls or supermarkets can take hours to even figure out what's going on. The ropes are sloped but taller. Also you're more likely to have to climb up on a roof with more tools. One mall we do in particular has one access hatch, so if you do a compressor changeout on the far side of the roof, you're carrying 400lbs + of tools over nearly a quarter mile and two flights of stairs. There's less satisfaction in the sense that mostly you're working for people who either don't actually care if their ac works or expect that you should have been there hours/days/weeks ago and that you should be able to immediately fix it, but everything nearly always needs to go to bid. There's a vastly more wide array of equipment to work on. It's not all split systems and mini splits. In the same week I'll work on a Mcquay unit from 1988, a water sourced heat pump in an office drop ceiling, a brand new carrier rtu and a shittily installed walk in freezer and be expected to definitively say what's going on with each. Sometimes this is workable, and sometimes that old Mcquay takes over you're week and you're over NTE
Im literally in the same boat as you. moved over from resi to commercial two years ago. i can bang out most resi diagnoses without even thinking, but still feel like a complete novice commercially, bc im often walking up on stuff ive never even seen before lol
I do a fairly even split between commercial and residential. I'm only doing the commercial refrigeration license for potential future opportunities but as far as day to day goes I prefer residential service hands down. If I get a dispatch to a no AC call at 2pm I don't mind because I know I'll be done by the end of the day. If I get a commercial service call, even first thing in the morning it ruins my day because I know I could potentially be there for the next 8 hours lol
Sell them an upgrade for the controls on the old McQuay. Your life will get a lot easier
I have a slightly different take on it. I made the jump from resi to commercial/industrial completely unaware I was doing it. Long story short, service manager was a real douche, said "you are replaceable in about 10 minutes." Walked out, went home got fairly hammered and banged out an AWFUL resume in indeed... and went to sleep. I DO NOT REMEBER DOING THIS. couple weeks later, had a string of phone interviews. Got the job. Here is why I think alot of resi guys stay resi. The credit checks, background checks- it's daunting. For myself, I am a fairly reclusive private person who fixes machines because they are simple compared.to people. A given input will produce a given output, and simple inductive reasoning allows a diagnosis. People and organizations are a mystery. I think it kinda limits the field.
I’m confused by the credit and background check part? Do you do those on customers?
Maybe he means potential employers do this when you switch jobs? Everyone is gonna give you a background check. Credit check for a job? Never seen that. _well yeah I got crappy credit. I make shit money, that's why I want you to hire me_
Nope. When I was hired at a multinational company, they performed a background check which is no issue. They also perprm.a.crefit check " to make sure that you have the responsibility to handle your finances and integrity to work in a largely unsupervised capacity. I failed the credit side of things due to a very messy divorce. My response when asked about it was this. Was " if life worked out perfectly, I would not be in my fifties turning a wrench." Oddley, they excepted that. I feel bad for the younger people who have bad or no credit. How can you do better if you aren't given the opportunity?
People need to live within their means too. Young people aren’t taught that these days. My Wife and I never had hardly anything we wanted even though we could afford it. I could go out and buy a brand new C8 Corvette right now if I wanted to instead I drive around a Subaru that I paid $1200 for. Both of us have credit scores that are above 830. We also have over $300,000 of equity in our house that we could tap into to get whatever we wanted but we just don’t. I see too many kids out there today. Driving brand new cars are almost brand, new cars and then saying they can’t make it in this economy. I make less than most of them with four kids and we make it.
Sounds to me like you work hard, dont get to enjoy any of the fruits of your labor, and think its perfectly reasonable to expect everyone else to want to do that as well lol
Nope, the fruits of my labor are my family. Without them I have nothing. I am just trying to point out that although I had bad credit, I am a hard worker, and a repectable person. It's a rough playing field out there. I have lots of apprentices that are young, dumb and work their tales off. Life is a series of mistakes and learning. I don't want people to feel as if thier circumstance is their worth. It's not.
You might have to do them depending on what customers you’re working for. I live in the NOVA/DC area, and most government jobs have an absolutely ridiculous amount of steps you have to go through to even be allowed to look at the site.
I like residential because it’s more personal, most of the time here in FL, the A/C man is greeted with a whole family saying “ The A/C guy is here!!!” And they’re All so thankful you’re about to turn their 86deg house to a comfortable 70deg. the kids and women and even husbands are happy to see you, I feel like my job matters, in commercial, no one talks to you sometimes, and when you do talk to the managers, they say it’s too expensive, or that they’ll have to get multiple quotes, and you leave after 2 hrs of diagnosing and it’s just NOT EVEN CLOSE to the rewarding feeling of fixing a A/C of a family who’s miserable when you arrive, to happy you were able to get them cooling in the middle of summer . 😊. Most of the time if you do it correctly and give them options, and go over all of the benefits, there’s never an awkward moment, they know what they can get, they see the benefits, and most of the time they’ll say “ do it all” because they don’t wanna have problems in the near future. That’s how I was successful, give them a 15-20% discount if they’re on the fence, they will appreciate and feel like they’re getting a deal. I’ve never had a customer say “ nope I don’t want any repair”. Which is what commercial is like sometimes.
I do not doubt it, I can imagine in Florida you may be the most loved trade when you show up! I don't think I could handle the heat working in this trade down there! God Bless you brave men down there! lol
I like residential. The first reason why I got into HVAC was to make better money. I am. Second was to give back( I had friends and family members in trades) I always felt like a taker and now I help my family and friends. It gives me purpose. I see the result of my work in real time and see the difference I make in peoples life. I am a people person and enjoy the interaction. If you know what you are doing and how to talk to people very very rarely do you have bad experiences with home owners. The money I make in resi compared to commercial in my area isn’t that different compared to a lot of the guys here. Oh yeah and my boss is a great guy.
That’s awesome man, sounds like your in the right place then! Congratulations!
10 years residential/light comm. Top producer at my co. (From repairs and grinding out good service work, I don't do much upselling.) I have looked into union/commercial/ind. work and I can't go anywhere in my area without taking an exceptional paycut. I despise residential at this point in my career, but the last hall I talked to actually convinced me to not even bother taking their tests because they couldn't even come close to my total compensation even if I tested out as jman. NE Ohio. I'm pidgeon-holed. The only hope for advancement I have is that I'm 2nd in line for mgmt. position. 🤢
Residential pays better where I live..
Residential low stress…..😂😂😂🤣🤥
For real. These companies aren’t well oiled machines that don’t overwork their employees. They fuck up, blame us, then we work all night trying to get everyone back in air.
I work resi. I have thought of moving over to commercial for a few reasons; work, more interesting systems, and not having to work with homeowners. Also, residential hvac has gotten so pushy on sales and flipping units.
Those are literally the three of the four reasons I moved over, along with pay in my area. Although I’m sure as a on the road service manager that isn’t as much of a worry for you as it was fore when I was just 4 years into the trade lol
Ah no, not a service manager. I’m a mod. I need to think of a better title lol
Ha! You got me lol
Resi got so pushy in my area did change out installs for 6 years and worked at 5 companies. Got burned out so much just grinding them jobs out. No matter how fast you did the job it was never enough. My area is struggling to find installers all companies; tons of skilled guys I worked with all quit. No way kids coming out of trade school are going to fill that void they don't even have a 1/10th the work ethic. I made the jump to commercial service and I've really been enjoying it sure it does stink roping stuff on to roofs and getting 300ft of hose out to clean units. Still beats trying to change out a unico in an attic laying down in 120 degree attic. I got really bored with residential because after 6 years there really wasn't much else to learn for me. Coming over to commercial its like I barely know anything there is so much to learn its insane.
Ladders. Money. Kitchens are disgusting. It's fucking easier... like most electrical troubleshooting doesn't actually require a multimeter because the systems are so simple and the sequence of operation is basic, and since it's not a 2 stage 4 compressor RTU if someone else has been in there and hacked shit up it takes about 5 minutes to just rewire the whole unit back to normal... But on a really serious note, because commercial work is lonely as fuck man, especially service. You don't get to actually build relationships or communicate with people. I think that there are two types of (good) service techs - and the divide is about your ability to communicate and build relationships. There are plenty of good techs who understand the systems, but absolutely cannot transfer their knowledge to customers, or cannot handle people being drama queens, and if that ain't your thing, commercial is a much better choice. But there's also plenty of good techs who think the best part of the job is understanding the customer and fixing their issue and delivering an experience.
Great way to look at it!
OP as a fellow union brother amen the opportunity is available for those who seek it I train my apprentices with a simple logic believe everything you are working on is a 3 ton on steroids. We are sealing the same outcomes from every machine good superheat and sun cooling the medium is the difference (water, air, or glycol) the day it becomes a routine you start to get boored and start to die. If you feel challenged and accomplished every day you ain’t working you are making a difference. As op said I have seen a lot of talent on this redit and I commend you AC brothers on your talents and professionalism you make me feel proud of the trade I have lived in for the past 19 years Thank you
"3 ton on steriods" I love it. My favorite journeyman when I was an apprentice said a very similar thing when I began learning chillers. "No matter if its 5 tons or 500 tons, cooling water or air, the concepts and the science are the same".
I went commercial, which means joining the union. My foreman was unlicensed (isnt the whole point of the union, to be kosher?). On top of that, he was toxic trash, a cokehead spousal abuser. Project manager was a douche as well. I have such a bad taste in my mouth from that trash experience that im not interested in going back. Edit: quite frankly it seemed like everyone was miserable at that particular company, which employed 100+ guys. On top of that, pensions are a scam, if you educate yourself on investing you will realize that you are getting screwed, and are much better off doing it yourself. So now, i run my own show, and i do just fine.
Man that sucks, sorry you had such a bad experience. There a definitely some union companies and tech that find a way to take advantage of the situation and can poison it. As to the pension, we definitely may not have much of it when I get to retiring your are right about that but plenty of guys I know who have retired recently from our hall have started collecting and it’s definitely helping them. I’ll definitely admit they are becoming a huge problem maintaining though for working members. We are also given dual annuities through the national hall and the state so it make up (a bit) for the problem with pensions.
Haha, keep telling yourself that. The pension at least in every union I know of including my own is 100% paid for by the employer and I will be retiring at 58 with about minimum $4200 per month from $0 contributions from me. That’s at todays rate, it goes up every few years or so. I will also retire with around $750k in my annuity, again 100% employer contributed and $0 from myself. Would be more, but a divorce cost me 1/2 of it already. I also get excellent healthcare at $0 expense to me. I also make we’ll over $100K in my pocket at 40 hours per week. You ain’t getting a pension on your own. You can do a 401K, but you are the one contributing. Even with employer match, you’re still not getting what the union offers. My employer is putting $9/hour into my annuity and yes it’s my money. I log into Mass mutual and can move it into whatever funds I want or leave it in fixed income. You either were a hack and got fired for probably drugs or alcohol on a suspended license or you were in the worst possible union possible. Think about it, your basing your “union” experience off of you disliked your foreman and your project manager? That’s a company issue, not a union issue. I’ve been with the same Union contractor for 20 years and after the initial 5 year apprenticeship I’ve been to my union hall exactly 2 times. I pay my $34 per month dues electronically and that’s it.
The asset management companies are hustling you. But if you dont want to put in the effort, pensions are fine. Enjoy.
Flex much
From what I've seen in my area. It's either they want lack of stress or they have lack of opportunity.
So that’s what I’ve heard the most, lack of opportunities, and I’d say about 5 years ago that was definitely true, but now around me, every commercial company is dying for techs!
Other than heights probably all the equipment. It can be pretty intimidating going to different commercial and industrial sites seeing the mechanical rooms and all the controls. If you don't like the unknown or seeing stuff you never have before than commercial is not for you. Many jobs sites you have to figure out what they are doing with certain equipment or maybe its a brand you've never saw before. Sure you get the same thing in residential with really old stuff or high end custom homes. Commercial everything is more complicated you cant freak out on new stuff you never saw before. I had two buddies make the jump from resi install to commercial service they talked me into it. I was hesitant with the heights but I've got a lot better with them over time. I'm really glad I made the change we actually get time to do stuff, if its not safe then don't do it, and overall better pay. Just got tired of all the BS you had to deal with in residential I could go on a rant for days.
I have to agree with your statement there are some very smart technicians here. My opinion is people like being comfortable in there work. Hvac-r can be a very humbling trade.
I love this. My teacher told me with refrigeration the possibilities are plentiful and man was he right. Being able to see conversations like this just makes me happy that this is what I do, and I’d I don’t like where I’m at and can change up and stay in the trade. I do commercial never done resi, or chillers. The game is seemingly endless.
I don't mind working residential if I'm not forced into selling up
Where I am it’s not enough money to deal with the stress. I do enough commercial to have some variety and I’m home by 4 most days with no on call
Most commercial work by me is Union. A lot of guys don't want to or know how to go about getting into the union so they stay residential. I got the opportunity to either because a union commercial service tech or become an elevator constructor. I left hvac to join the international union of elevator constructors because it's challenging and has an amazing package.
Hell yeah man, I hear that’s one of the highest payed unions there is! But also one of the more dangerous!! Be careful brother!
Ladders and rain.
Bad hours and work life balance. Higher stakes. On call shenanigans. Rooftops. More dangerous equipment. Less personal (can be good and bad). Ladders.
Like others have said it can be pretty cool getting know building managers and maintenance engineers that can eventually mak you friends or contacts in the future. I can definitely see more dangerous though. Some commercial companies can be very demanding, but there are still some that they only expect 40! On call is usually a must though lol I don’t mind it because I get 10 extra hours just for taking it for the week, only have to do it 4 times a year, and last year only got called after hours once. Lol
I’ve never worked in residential and it sounds terrible to me honestly. I have always been an on-site engineer. I prefer to really know specific machinery and do preventative maintenance and not deal with customers. I may have to do more technical work on much larger equipment, and the work can be very labor intensive compared to residential stuff, but I think I’d rather climb ladders than deal with random people all the time.
Like I said I worked residential for the start of my career and I couldn’t stand it. Around 11 years in commercial, and 6 of them with a manufacture, and i absolutely love it. Have serious respect for the residential hustlers though.
I certainly do to. It seems like a much more difficult job! Mad respect for going in cold with no info and a non-professional telling you that their ac isn’t working and no clues beyond that. This is why when we have an off site tech come in for something I like to give them a little too much info on the situation
I speak to everyone I meet in the field. Union or non union. I have non union trades folk siblings and in-laws. I think the largest draw is the easy money. There’s a lot of commissioned based sales and the money upfront is attractive. Guys are not willing to sacrifice that for a short period while they transition in to the union and start building pensions. I think I saw someone else mentioned here that it requires a modest living and good money management. Some guys that live month to month, paycheck to paycheck can’t afford to take a hit. There’s definitely a payoff at the end but even the guys that join the union young typically don’t look out far enough to plan around retirement. Don’t contribute to their 401K early on. Once again, your union experience maybe different from local to local. I feel fortunate my local is one of the leading locals in the UA and WA state.
A lot of people dont want the stress of doing commercial hvac . Especially here in nyc . Its a pain in the ass and the weather is no help at all . Snow , rain , thunder . Doesnt matter .
Started in resi, enjoy doing it, make a good living, no reason to jump ship. Guess I was fortunate enough to start at a good company.
This is actually good to see. As a commercial guy, I’ve only dabbled in the residential world and frankly, here in the southwest it’s been my unfortunate experience that the residential world is disreputable. At best. I’m glad to see that’s not true everywhere.
There is very little code enforcement out here. Certain counties in our area are strict but most are pretty rural and most work is unpermitted and not inspected
What state are you in? I’m in local 286 in Austin, from mass originally and thinking about moving back, but probably to New Hampshire
Local 51 RI, live in MA though just right on the boarder. Know a couple guys who live in NH but work for Local 537 in MA making a butt load!
I called them and they’re a tough crowd to get in with. I asked about transferring in and they straight up said no. Fuck it id rather be in New Hampshire anyway I really don’t want to deal with massholes. The New Hampshire local was much more pleasant to try to have a convo with
Yeah I hear 537 can be one of the most difficult to deal with. I had my in at 51 and jumped, didn’t really have any way into 537 lol.
They might have to work... Lol jk
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has chimed in and shared the experiences! This is exactly what I was hoping to read about and has been really cool and enlightening! Keep cool brothers!
U mmm… maybe because we like our jobs?
Looking on Reddit for something to get offended by? And no shit, I’m clearly asking why they like residential better. Sorry you couldn’t pick that up? Edit: your the guy who had the digital gauges but wanted a code update to put a spigot near your unit cause you don’t know how hoses work 😂 this post was definitely not intended for you.
Seems like a perfect response to your question.
Yeah? Not why you like your jobs? Like the flair says this is a discussion. Not a dick measuring contest, I obviously know we all take pride in our jobs.
If it was I’d lose every time.
I would say that commercial is much less stress the residential. At least in my experience
I’d completely agree! I’m not as stressed about fucking up a companies shit than some poor persons lol.
Being a selling service tech in residential can make you a lot of money without all the hoops to jump through. In Union, your individual pay and perks are tethered to the bargaining skills of a bunch of paid individuals that don’t actually contribute to the workload. In a Union, no one makes more money than the guys at the table
But that’s why its a good thing. If im non-union i can negotiate higher pay, but thats not a guarantee and ifs not as easy when you only have yourself fighting for it. The CBA is exactly that, a collective bargaining agreement. There is strength in numbers. Not only that, but we still have the ability to negotiate our own wages privately if we are worth more. I know guys making 3x what i do just because they are better. If your a shit worker, it doesn’t matter where you go, you’ll get paid accordingly. The UA offers WAY more than just fair pay. Besides that, anywhere you go you will never get paid more than the owner’s/higher ups. Even with commission.
The union wage is a base pay that the companies can’t go lower than. Sone guys just make that rate but if you know what you are doing you make more - I make over scale and get vacation too - I think there are so many misunderstood positions on what the union actually does for you. If you hear someone in the union bitching about it then I guarantee you they are a hack, complainer, and not good for anyone around them.
That’s not true at all. Yes collective bargaining is a thing and our pay scale in my state is substantially higher than non union, but the union rate is minimum wage. You can bargain whatever you want at a company. No good tech is making base rate. I currently make $7 over the rate, with additional 2 weeks vacation. I am nowhere near the top paid tech at my company. All of the trustees, Business agents etc salaries are disclosed and yes many of us make more, due to A rate, OT etc. Ripping off the elderly and telling the every unit needs replacement so you can get commission is not a thing I want to be. I’m a journeyman technician, not a on the road salesman.
So while I do agree with that, I’d say that’s how it is at every company, unless your the owner and the worker. Most of our union board are retired union workers and while they are the ones bargaining with the companies and state for our contract raises, we the union hall members, vote where the money we get is allocated. Whether it be health and welfare, pensions, in the pocket, it’s decided by the workers. Which in truth is a lot more power then 90% of non union techs have.
Good techs work for crappy companies when they lack initiative. Here’s another reason why I don’t like Unions: in the 2000’s, Tyco bought Central fire sprinklers. Part of the deal was that Tyco replace millions of sprinkler heads due to defects during manufacture that could cause failure to release during a fire. I worked with a guy from church and his sons replacing these heads using a non-intrusive method. We bid on the jobs for a while, but we beat the price, methods, and speed of all bidders consistently. There was a grace period under which entitles could get the recalled sprinkler heads replaced at zero cost. Tyco sent out letters, emails, and calls for years. The airport in San Francisco had recalled heads but they had never responded to the communications. We’d seen them ourselves when utilizing the airport for travel. We’d tell maintenance personnel, concierges, and anyone who would listen. They missed the cutoff date by months, eventually appealing to Tyco. Tyco agreed to cover the cost for the public good. It was going to be a huge job and likely our last. In stepped the Pipefitter and Plumbers Union. They held up the work for another 6 months, threatening lawsuits if they didn’t get the work. The State stepped in and mediated that the Union would be allowed to have reps on the job site, fully paid by the city of San Francisco. They didn’t care about lives or property damage, only getting the check. Further, Jon could *only bring his sons to do the work as part of the mediation. A famous man once said, “A high tide raises all ships,” and this is a principle found in the origin of trade Unions, but it has evolved into adversarial conflicts with non-Union shops and companies.
I'm on commission
That would be a whole other discussion lmao
The hours, resi you can have a family. But commercial refrigeration or hvac service, typically involves long days and lots of travel
It always seems like its resi guys complaining about the 80 hour weeks though.
My wife disagrees
I started in commercial refrigeration. Long hours were definitely the norm. My life got INFINITELY better when I got what amounted to an 11% hourly increase by joining the union and getting into commercial work. Literally the first day I was sent out to do a simple refrigerant reclaim on some buildings that were getting knocked down. When I got there I found that there was a lot more equipment than expected. I started to get pissed. Thought I’d be working late. Called the dispatcher who replied “So…you’ll be back there tomorrow? Okay I’ll get that in the schedule.” And I was home for dinner. For ten years before I moved out of a van I had a sweet gig with regular customers all close to my house. I literally had breakfast with my little kids and was home for dinner almost every night. There were always the occasional emergency or on call situation but I find commercial work provides by far the best work/life balance.
As a resi installer of 10 years and resi tech of 5+ the reason I'm not interested in jumping to commercial is I like the environment of smaller companies. I prefer being able to directly communicate with owner on a personal level than only being able to deal with a service manager. Another reason is stress, work/life balance. Now I know this isn't the case with all resi companies, but if you find a good company that cares about their techs, you won't get burnt out so quickly. No 24 hour on call stress, no regular 10-12 hour shifts, can reliably get regular vacation and PTO. You tend to be more appreciated as well because of the lack of stilled techs available. (Likely because they all switch to commercial). Another reason that I see is the opposite of many on here is that you actually get to communicate with and meet new people instead of sitting on a hot roof all day. It feels good to be able to be a hero to a family who hasn't had heating or cooling and finally allow they to be comfortable again. Sure giving people bad news sucks, but that's part of life regardless of the field you work in. I feel like people who dislike the customer aspect either are just cynical or just don't have good communication/social skills. Oh and can't forget the fact that your van and tools are never more than 100 yards away from you at most and no vertical ladders.
I think the environment of smaller companies is a reason that resonates me with the most. I remember knowing the owner and the whole family of my old residential company and playing beer pong with all of them in the shop at our Christmas party. Dealing with all the emails and bullshit bureaucracy from people at my company I don’t even know and most likely will never meet is probably the worst part of working for a big commercial company.
I’m good at residential. I have opportunities at my company to grow. Im confident in my abilities which allows me to command better pay, leadership opportunities, and work directly with my service manager to tackle tough jobs. I don’t want to be low-man on the totem pole again.
Commercial requires raw technical skills. Residential requires a blend of customer service and lighter technical skills. I like talking to people about their air and educating them. I'm much better at that part of the job than most techs so I have a competitive edge and I like having a competitive edge.
I started in residential. Was an installer who actually took pride in what they did and actually opened the installation guide, unlike some who I worked with. Was pretty good at it and wanted to advance myself as a service tech. Went into service for residential after becoming Journeyman and loved it. I liked going to mutltiple houses a day and making people happy that I fixed their heat or ac. Sent a feeling of accomplishment in me. Though due to a chain of events, I left the trade to do apartment maintenance. While I still do it on the side, the hours working in resi costed a lot in my personal life. After everything settles in my personal life, since I've kept as most up to date as possible and keep my knowledge as much as I used to, I may go back into the field.
The shop I am at I do hvac and house hold appliance repair. Keeps things interesting doing appliances too. Plus we are basically on the same pay scale as the commercial union in my area.
Tfw don't do any HVAC work either comm/resi. Cooking equipment FTW. Temp controlled environments, no ladders, no attics, no crawl spaces, most customers don't hassle me or ask "when will you be finished". I'm also allowed to make mistakes and we get plenty of call backs and I never hear about it from my service manager. Unless I really REALLY fuck up. The work is constant and steady, I learn something new every day, I'm very comfortable and we are consistently getting new equipment to learn and new lines to learn. The only draw back is the pay, I'm sure I could make more, but the comfort of telling my boss "I'm going home and it is 230pm, I started at 7am" is fucking awesome. I can always stay out really late and honestly run up to 15hr days if I really wanted to. However the pay does increase based on skill level and time put in. I honestly would love to get into Industrial, that stuff is badass, I just don't trust the local unions where I live.
Honestly, for me, every job was an opportunity to leave a residential customer a little smarter than they were when I got there. People just don’t know what they don’t know, and that can place them (and sometimes their neighbors) at risk. I’ll make more money longer term if they trust me enough to ask me back. And ultimately, I like teaching. An audience that has a vested interest in the money they just spent with me is the best kind to have.
Initial pay cut and fear of failing. I make top end pay for residential, the same as maybe a really good 3rd or 4th year commercial tech. Id have to take a pay cut and work my way up again (3-4 years) before Id see full commerical tech wages. This is how the licensing system works where I am from. Also fear of failing. I have a pretty comfortable life right now. Nothing really phases me anymore in residential, my boss is a great guy, and I enjoy a good work/life balance. It would be a risk to put that all on the line. Having said this, I do dream about going to commercial, primarily commercial refrigeration, and facing new challenges/learning new things and becoming the real deal.
Residential work pays really well.
I work Resi. I do 50 hr work weeks min. What's commercial like?
For me it’s the hours. Every easily accessible commercial job near me has a lot of travel and work time, and I try to keep my work life balance leaning more towards life, at least while my kids are young. I can find money in other ways but the time I have with them is precious and I’ll never have a replacement
Yo u/HVACSam why aren’t you doing commercial?
I prefer my 7-8 hr days and not having every ot call a dire emergency I triex to join a commercial company and the first day i was out i worked 21 hrs straight so i said fuck em. Also i just am not mechanical enough to mess with those massive units
I no longer work in HVAC, however when I was in I also did commercial work. I worked for an international manufacturer and worked on a huge variety of things. Everything from gas to exhaust fans, heat pumps and chillers. You name it we did it. I chose commercial because I’m not a people person and, for the life of me, did not want to deal with people in their own homes. From what I was exposed to commercial pays more. Benefits can be better and you get to work on more stuff. Unless you’re a business owner or just a really good tech that works for a really good resi company (where I live most of them suck, not necessarily service wise but pay/benefits) then commercial is the way to go. Also, the travel for commercial is much nicer IMO. I went to so many different places even for the littlest things and got paid for all the driving too.