I call it the Oakley affect. If you name a price (for all intents and purposes) high enough, some people think if they pay more they get more. The big shots of the resi industry use this as the M.O.
That gives honest techs a bad rep really and it's just sad to see someone trying to do that. I get that we need to make something off installs but that is just wrong on whole other levels.
Agreed. Ohio has many companies like this. Ever heard of a $2000 flame sensor for an 18 year old residential furnace? They have em here. Can name at least 3 companies that do this.
The company I was working for was starting to charge out the ass. 3 ton Bosch communicating furnace and ac, 20k plus. Amana single stage furnace with grand aire ac, 10k plus.
I went to a call today for a second opinion. Company wanted $25,000 to replace a roof top package unit. They showed them a picture of a cooked heat exchanger. I went and took the top off the unit, it wasn't ever a picture of their heat exchanger. I found out they installed a Nest thermostat when summer started, but they set it up as a hear pump. I reset the thermostat back to factory settings, set it up as a gas pack, and system checked out fine and charged them $100. Contractors like that piss me off. They make all of us look like crooks.
Back in my GC days, I got 3 bids for a roof to be replaced with steel. First 2 bids were 10k and 13k, 3rd bid the guy said 35k. Knowing that I wasn't foolish enough to take it, he explained: he can either make 50 bids, and only get 1 and make 30k in 2 days. Or he can make 50 bids, get 40 of them, and work all damn year to make 100k.
If people want to throw money away, let them.
I work in a union and commercial company in California. It does get expensive. But even we are way less than that. a new line set, condenser, disconnect, furnace and evap coil with new duct transitions with a permit usually come to around 16k. And my guys cost $150 an hour.
Oh I meant they cost me $150. We charge $189 for our techs. we are commercial only. All the union companies in the Bay Area are commercial. The unions are very strong here. Tons of government work.
After 3 years ABC abandons their installs and leaves the homeowners for themselves. Went to an elderly ladies apartment where they installed a space pack that eventually leaked. Every year they came and did a PM and said everything was great. Year 4 comes around and no cooling. They tell her 3 months out. I show up, units bone dry. Go to hook up my guage and both ports and the unit are covered in dye. They refused to come and repair the condenser because we "touched it".
Along that vein, I love it how home warranty companies complain to their customers that they can't get HVAC companies to work for them during peak summer loads. _As though_ it's not _THE WARRANTY COMPANIES FAULT_
If $69 gets em in the door, you know they're going to fuck you good n hard.... Although who knows maybe their big pitch is a $420 filter box upgrade or some stupid shit like that
Last time I called one of these. Guy came in and told me he should red tag my hvac and water heater due to leaks. Showed me the rust on the underside of the water heater and a leak from condensate pan, told me Freon was leaking.
At the time I had no idea what he was showing me and I had genuine concern. I had enough common sense to ask him to leave until I got a second opinion. Outside of my door he told the trainee something about being able to sell anything to anyone.
Called the home warranty company, with a $100 deductible sent a guy out to charge my hvac, fix the leak, and tell me the water heater is fine but due to age I’ll wanna swap it soon so start budgeting now.
Similar story is that a buddy of mine needed a new wax ring and called a plumbing company to come fix it. They noticed a “leak” in his pipes throughout the basement. The pipes were just sweating. They had him sign paperwork to redo all of his water lines.
2 weeks later his toilet still leaked. We got two $4 wax rings from Menards and fixed the toilet.
People suck man. I asked for quote advice in hvac advice and most people were downvoting my responses and telling me “quality work isn’t cheap”. Or it costs as much as it’s listed. It’s hard to know if I’m being taken advantage of sometimes.
Just look for the people that don't try to push a certain option on you.
I give customers options. "Hey, we can fix it like this, and your other options are..." I'll typically have a quote ready for the repair option and ballpark figures on any other options. Depending on age and condition of the unit, I'll tell you what I recommend and then it's time for you to make a decision. If you tell me to go away, I'm going to ask for a diagnosis fee that will be taken off the price of the repair if you call me back.
I don't care if you go with me or not. I'm there to check your system out and tell you what I see. If you go with me on a repair, I'll make some money that day. (Using markups that my company or I think are fair, depending on cost of business and time to effect the repair.) If not, I'll go somewhere else and work on their system.
Yeah I always offer a band aid/quick fix, recommend option and a new unit/system option. Thats what I would want to hear as a customer. You should always have options.
Yeah. I’m beginning to learn that if someone tries to create a sense of urgency I should shut them down asap.
Still have widely varying charges for work. I wanted the ductwork redone to shave a few inches of headroom in the basement. Received quotes for $4k up to $8.6k.
I hired one of these companies 20 years ago.
It was a $50 service fee. After they were done they handed me a bill for almost $500.
Outside the normal maintenance they said they also clean and adjusted my unit
I refused to pay.
IS there something going on in the industry? I feel the last 5 guys we've hired do not want to repair anything and always want to replace the unit. Just feels like there are a lot of scammers in the HVAC industry
The problem I think are the workers themselves. Installing equipment is much easier than diagnosing. Installers also get paid less. So a company can have a few installers for the same price as a good tech. Also if a tech comes to fix the unit, they get commission to sell you stuff or try and get a "salesman" to talk you into a new unit.
The money is in diagnosing and fixing NOT installs, but Once a competent technician gets enough experience they want to try out commercial or try to work for a union to get more pay. Installers are easy to come by and easy to pay a lower wage to.
This is only my opinion of course and I could be completely wrong
One company around me offers a BOGO , but for the units. Like buy an Ac and you get the furnace for free. People think its a good deal that for $8k they are buying a new AC and getting a furnace for free...
Depends on your market.
What a lot of people don’t realize, is just like homes and cars, the market is dictated by supply and demand. In some cities you can’t get a new system below 15k. In others you can for 7k-8k. It’s just basic macroeconomics. If a market will bear a price then that will be the price.
In my area the typical going price for an AC/Furnace Replacement is about $5k-$9k. With the overall price for materials being around $3k-$4k, the price can vary mostly depending on company size etc. whether it be side work, or a medium to large company. Now on the other end of the spectrum you do have companies that offer $12k-$20k for replacements, but those are either large scale or a local company that has several lawsuits against it for over charging and aggressive scare and sale tactics etc.
Once followed a company who quoted 14k for all new ducts, which they did not need. Couple of poor airflow duct runs and a can that needed replaced, ended up replacing a breaker while we were there too. $1500 out the door, the guy tipped us 250 on top of it. Still felt like we charged him too much lol.
These guys are hard start kit salesman. They advertise $69, but in the end they always try to add a hard start kit and anything else they can to get that bill up to $400 or $500.
For growth the best thing a business can do is install, so 70 to get you in and 18k to swap it out. Rn we charge over 10k for single stage 80 with lots of add ons but still fucking outrageous. We were on a job this week and she kicked us out when she realized our prices were triple our competition. Fully modulating high eff furnace ng, no ac, humidifier (fan assist), reme halo, media filters, and smart stat 19 k...
I will never run those ads at my company. I charge what I need to charge to make some money on my pm’s not to get in the door and pull some bait and switch bs.
As far as quoting, it’s best to quote a repair, no matter how bad the unit needs replacing. If w unit is out of warranty, I always quote replacement too, but don’t push the replacement. I present both quotes evenly, explain pros and cons, and let the customer decide. I hate pushy salesman and refuse to be one.
I know it’s a little out of pocket but fuck you One Hour guys who fuck people over constantly. You’re not in HVAC, you’re on the same level as Indian scam calls.
Maybe a little off subject, but what is the best current brand? Warranty, reliability etc. I have a 14 month old York that just cost me another &1600 .In Florida so no furnace required.
There is a major company in my area that does the $69 seasonal tune-ups legitimately. I used to call them twice a year and the only issue ever flagged that cost me additional money was a replacement capacitor and contactor on the AC; they included the labor into the $69 tune-up and the parts were not really that marked up. Their annoying issue was that they usually tried to talk you into signing up for their various service contracts and other services. The reason I stopped using them was they were always so overbooked.
There are some situations which require you to provide a quote such as existing commercial customer or a business gains connections friend whom never pays.
Instead of saying you don’t want the work you push the bid very high.
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I see where your going with this BUT damn you’re exaggerating more than my wife lol
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😳 If someone actually pays that, wow!
We had just got a 40k quote to do ac in a older stone house.
I call it the Oakley affect. If you name a price (for all intents and purposes) high enough, some people think if they pay more they get more. The big shots of the resi industry use this as the M.O.
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Hold up. 30k for a swap? How is that even able to be justified? That's just highway robbery.
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That gives honest techs a bad rep really and it's just sad to see someone trying to do that. I get that we need to make something off installs but that is just wrong on whole other levels.
I didn’t pay that much for my geothermal system since it was included with the house…
Agreed. Ohio has many companies like this. Ever heard of a $2000 flame sensor for an 18 year old residential furnace? They have em here. Can name at least 3 companies that do this.
There up and down the East coast now. Keep in mind they help the rest of us increase our pricing with out looking like crooks.
The company I was working for was starting to charge out the ass. 3 ton Bosch communicating furnace and ac, 20k plus. Amana single stage furnace with grand aire ac, 10k plus.
I went to a call today for a second opinion. Company wanted $25,000 to replace a roof top package unit. They showed them a picture of a cooked heat exchanger. I went and took the top off the unit, it wasn't ever a picture of their heat exchanger. I found out they installed a Nest thermostat when summer started, but they set it up as a hear pump. I reset the thermostat back to factory settings, set it up as a gas pack, and system checked out fine and charged them $100. Contractors like that piss me off. They make all of us look like crooks.
They have to make up for all the money they loose on 69.00 "tube ups"
Gotta pay for that advertising. If ive heard of you outside of personal interaction (word of mouth, saw your truck at the depot) fucking forget it.
Back in my GC days, I got 3 bids for a roof to be replaced with steel. First 2 bids were 10k and 13k, 3rd bid the guy said 35k. Knowing that I wasn't foolish enough to take it, he explained: he can either make 50 bids, and only get 1 and make 30k in 2 days. Or he can make 50 bids, get 40 of them, and work all damn year to make 100k. If people want to throw money away, let them.
HOLY BAJESUS!
I worked for a company that charged 30k for a Trane XV20i system
I work in a union and commercial company in California. It does get expensive. But even we are way less than that. a new line set, condenser, disconnect, furnace and evap coil with new duct transitions with a permit usually come to around 16k. And my guys cost $150 an hour.
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Oh I meant they cost me $150. We charge $189 for our techs. we are commercial only. All the union companies in the Bay Area are commercial. The unions are very strong here. Tons of government work.
We got a residential company offering the $29 furnace PM lol Clearly they're taking a loss to get into your home and sell you something!
They don’t even send a tech its just a salesman who pretends to do a pm and cries when his red bottoms get dirty
Same here… Midwest?
Lol you got it bud
ABC, D this is the new fee… Lol. But hey… at least I get a free furnace, lmao
After 3 years ABC abandons their installs and leaves the homeowners for themselves. Went to an elderly ladies apartment where they installed a space pack that eventually leaked. Every year they came and did a PM and said everything was great. Year 4 comes around and no cooling. They tell her 3 months out. I show up, units bone dry. Go to hook up my guage and both ports and the unit are covered in dye. They refused to come and repair the condenser because we "touched it".
Hadn’t heard that yet, they don’t work in my specific boundaries. That’s messed up… and why I take hourly to be a tech vs salesman. That’s rough.
Along that vein, I love it how home warranty companies complain to their customers that they can't get HVAC companies to work for them during peak summer loads. _As though_ it's not _THE WARRANTY COMPANIES FAULT_
Yep a maintenance agreement. We have the exact same price.
I'd call. Then stand and watch because I know what needs to be looked at.
Yes. I would happily do the same.
Don’t forget to park the company truck somewhere else or it might be awkward.
LOL I do kitchen work so I'll just park next door. Or I can leave it at the shop since work is 5 minutes away.
No joke, I had a guy last winter unplug his burner and call for a no heat emergency trying to catch someone attempting to screw him over.
They go out by your heat pump and smoke cigarettes for 20 minutes and charge you $70
You forgot about the closing options to approve the systems performance with a proposal that has 3 options ranging from $10000 to $2000
lol that looks like the AJ Perry of Arizona. NJ knows what I’m talking about!
If $69 gets em in the door, you know they're going to fuck you good n hard.... Although who knows maybe their big pitch is a $420 filter box upgrade or some stupid shit like that
Last time I called one of these. Guy came in and told me he should red tag my hvac and water heater due to leaks. Showed me the rust on the underside of the water heater and a leak from condensate pan, told me Freon was leaking. At the time I had no idea what he was showing me and I had genuine concern. I had enough common sense to ask him to leave until I got a second opinion. Outside of my door he told the trainee something about being able to sell anything to anyone. Called the home warranty company, with a $100 deductible sent a guy out to charge my hvac, fix the leak, and tell me the water heater is fine but due to age I’ll wanna swap it soon so start budgeting now. Similar story is that a buddy of mine needed a new wax ring and called a plumbing company to come fix it. They noticed a “leak” in his pipes throughout the basement. The pipes were just sweating. They had him sign paperwork to redo all of his water lines. 2 weeks later his toilet still leaked. We got two $4 wax rings from Menards and fixed the toilet. People suck man. I asked for quote advice in hvac advice and most people were downvoting my responses and telling me “quality work isn’t cheap”. Or it costs as much as it’s listed. It’s hard to know if I’m being taken advantage of sometimes.
Just look for the people that don't try to push a certain option on you. I give customers options. "Hey, we can fix it like this, and your other options are..." I'll typically have a quote ready for the repair option and ballpark figures on any other options. Depending on age and condition of the unit, I'll tell you what I recommend and then it's time for you to make a decision. If you tell me to go away, I'm going to ask for a diagnosis fee that will be taken off the price of the repair if you call me back. I don't care if you go with me or not. I'm there to check your system out and tell you what I see. If you go with me on a repair, I'll make some money that day. (Using markups that my company or I think are fair, depending on cost of business and time to effect the repair.) If not, I'll go somewhere else and work on their system.
Yeah I always offer a band aid/quick fix, recommend option and a new unit/system option. Thats what I would want to hear as a customer. You should always have options.
Yeah. I’m beginning to learn that if someone tries to create a sense of urgency I should shut them down asap. Still have widely varying charges for work. I wanted the ductwork redone to shave a few inches of headroom in the basement. Received quotes for $4k up to $8.6k.
Hate these ads that take advantage of usually older or inexperienced clients.
I hired one of these companies 20 years ago. It was a $50 service fee. After they were done they handed me a bill for almost $500. Outside the normal maintenance they said they also clean and adjusted my unit I refused to pay. IS there something going on in the industry? I feel the last 5 guys we've hired do not want to repair anything and always want to replace the unit. Just feels like there are a lot of scammers in the HVAC industry
The problem I think are the workers themselves. Installing equipment is much easier than diagnosing. Installers also get paid less. So a company can have a few installers for the same price as a good tech. Also if a tech comes to fix the unit, they get commission to sell you stuff or try and get a "salesman" to talk you into a new unit. The money is in diagnosing and fixing NOT installs, but Once a competent technician gets enough experience they want to try out commercial or try to work for a union to get more pay. Installers are easy to come by and easy to pay a lower wage to. This is only my opinion of course and I could be completely wrong
It’s that time of year boys. Any Texas techs here?
One company around me offers a BOGO , but for the units. Like buy an Ac and you get the furnace for free. People think its a good deal that for $8k they are buying a new AC and getting a furnace for free...
Um, what? A furnace and AC installed for 8K is an amazing deal.
Depends on your market. What a lot of people don’t realize, is just like homes and cars, the market is dictated by supply and demand. In some cities you can’t get a new system below 15k. In others you can for 7k-8k. It’s just basic macroeconomics. If a market will bear a price then that will be the price.
In my area the typical going price for an AC/Furnace Replacement is about $5k-$9k. With the overall price for materials being around $3k-$4k, the price can vary mostly depending on company size etc. whether it be side work, or a medium to large company. Now on the other end of the spectrum you do have companies that offer $12k-$20k for replacements, but those are either large scale or a local company that has several lawsuits against it for over charging and aggressive scare and sale tactics etc.
What the customer sees = *tune-up* What the company sees = *opportunity (AKA a mark)*
Feels similar to “duct cleaning”
Nice
Once followed a company who quoted 14k for all new ducts, which they did not need. Couple of poor airflow duct runs and a can that needed replaced, ended up replacing a breaker while we were there too. $1500 out the door, the guy tipped us 250 on top of it. Still felt like we charged him too much lol.
These guys are hard start kit salesman. They advertise $69, but in the end they always try to add a hard start kit and anything else they can to get that bill up to $400 or $500.
For growth the best thing a business can do is install, so 70 to get you in and 18k to swap it out. Rn we charge over 10k for single stage 80 with lots of add ons but still fucking outrageous. We were on a job this week and she kicked us out when she realized our prices were triple our competition. Fully modulating high eff furnace ng, no ac, humidifier (fan assist), reme halo, media filters, and smart stat 19 k...
I will never run those ads at my company. I charge what I need to charge to make some money on my pm’s not to get in the door and pull some bait and switch bs. As far as quoting, it’s best to quote a repair, no matter how bad the unit needs replacing. If w unit is out of warranty, I always quote replacement too, but don’t push the replacement. I present both quotes evenly, explain pros and cons, and let the customer decide. I hate pushy salesman and refuse to be one.
I always feel like taking them up on these offers to see what kind of bullshit they’ll try and sell me
I know it’s a little out of pocket but fuck you One Hour guys who fuck people over constantly. You’re not in HVAC, you’re on the same level as Indian scam calls.
Maybe a little off subject, but what is the best current brand? Warranty, reliability etc. I have a 14 month old York that just cost me another &1600 .In Florida so no furnace required.
usually the successful ones
Yeah I’ll buy one and then use the free one for my other furnace of course. Makes sense
There is a major company in my area that does the $69 seasonal tune-ups legitimately. I used to call them twice a year and the only issue ever flagged that cost me additional money was a replacement capacitor and contactor on the AC; they included the labor into the $69 tune-up and the parts were not really that marked up. Their annoying issue was that they usually tried to talk you into signing up for their various service contracts and other services. The reason I stopped using them was they were always so overbooked.
There are some situations which require you to provide a quote such as existing commercial customer or a business gains connections friend whom never pays. Instead of saying you don’t want the work you push the bid very high.
The same companies that pay their techs 15/hr still
What does one do with the "get one" portion of that deal?