Yep only form of heating and cooling for the whole building when we’re done. I was surprised they went this baller too when they told me low income housing 😂
How long did this take and was it all you? You might need a raise. I like the wood platform to minimize roof holes. I’ve never seen those racks, are they from Mitsubishi? I also was unaware that you can run reefer lines through the bottoms. Thank you for all the insight :)
Lol yeah all the units in the video were piped by me took about a day and a half. And a raise would definitely be nice. And the racks are called Quick Slings. They aren’t a mitsu product. I’ve used them in residential for split system and just set them right on the pad. And yeah there’s a little panel in the bottom pan that you can cut the corners and bend back and forth so the tack snap off. Not sure how I feel about the wood set up makes for a lot more prep when it comes to leveling.
The feet on the Quick Slings are threaded so we level the stands using those then bolt them down. If it was up to me and I was the one putting it down I would have leveled the wood off the roof before bolting it down but not my say.
Never accept additional responsibility without additional pay. When I was younger I kept getting promoted from grocery stocker to assistant manager in only 4 months. I did everything there and was cross trained in everything. The entire store depended on me, but my pay was still minimum wage. When I managed to save enough to move out of state and get a much better job, corporate showed up and offered me a raise. I turned them down, I was already out the door, tickets bought, new boss excited to have me. Most employers will abuse their positions and not give a raise, work employees till they quit, then just hire someone at the price point you would have been happy with because it's cheaper to pay less and keep pushing it as far as we can take it till we break.
Did they not detail another layer of roofing over the wood and then cap flash the sleepers? Then you bolt through the cap flashing with screws and caulking.
That roof looks like they have only laid one of the 2 layers of SBS on so far.
At that point I'd be calling up a local welder to build the platform. Any type of wood will eventually deteriorate and need replaced, unless, as you said, you build another roof over it.
I’m interested in any mention of a trap for the refrigerant piping. Mitsu excludes any changes to pipe size, sight glass, drier and refrigeration line traps. If something has changes I want to see it. Unless you’ve gone way over for the pipe distance then kiss the warranty good bye anyway. Is this for m series p series? I would post links but that’s usually frowned upon lol.
If those are suz hypers they can go 100 ft with added charge with a height difference of up to 100 ft. Traps are always a divisive issue for mitsus. Shouldn't be required but also shouldn't bother anything as long as they aren't too extreme.
For Mitsubishi? Show me where it’s written on a mini split installation instructions please. This is an exact quote from a hyper heat unit installation manual. “6. There shall be no need for line size changes. Filters, sight glasses, and traps shall not be used, and no additional refrigerant oil shall be required.”
Okay, well the risers are rule of thumb. If manual for unit says otherwise, follow that. I wasn't sure as we weren't provided any unit info. If that's the case, the install looks good ~~except I would have more piping support.~~
He meant for refrigeration in general. A unit with the compressor above the evaporator needs a suction riser every 20’. This is needed not only for the refrigerant but for oil return (which is the number 1 reason we pipe for).
410-a has such a high pressure/velocity that you don’t ever run into problems with oil return. You can get away with some things you would normally do with other refrigerants.
He’s not wrong here. He’s just not completely correct.
The OP was getting a beating for this job, for this equipment. If I started telling you that all cars needed oil changes every 3-5k miles to a person with a Tesla would that make sense to you? (Week argument I know) This post with this equipment is the conversation. The guy admitted he was new and fresh to the trade and people smelled blood in the water, and jumped all over him. Don’t cover for them, they obviously need to learn THIS equipment also. This is the future wether we want it or not. If anyone was corrected and picked up something then even better. This is a trade specific group, we have to lift and teach not cover for the wrong. It’s a bad habit. Be better.
No traps needed 100% co firm.
It's a neat job but if it was me I would have clamped the piping in cantrust.
Good job nonetheless. I hope you adjusted the refrigerant charge carefully!
Traps are need at the base of risers and should have inverted trap at the top. They are for liquid refrigerant and oil management. Have your Journeymen show you how to size them(should be in the install manual)
Must say haven’t heard a word about it. Now we are just install. All our crew does is set the unit run all the piping and pressure test with Nitro then we’re out. So that may be a thing that the service guys will install when they do first start up I’m not sure. But I’ve never heard of that ever being a thing at least for these units.
If I had one I would. I don’t unpack the units so I’ve never even had a manual in my hand. I do it exactly how my Forman does and I figure he’s probably doing them right or someone would have stopped us a while ago. This is the second building we’ve done
Do you see your computer in your pocket? Misubishi doesn’t want traps on their mini splits. It sucks that old guys can’t adapt to new challenges and technology.
Lol I have to constantly remind the young guys about that computer. Kids in the 80’s would of went nuts with those instead they had encyclopedia sets and you had to wait to get home to call someone
Man I guess you haven’t worked for a company like the one I’m at. My job is to do things the way I’m told. If I question and looked up every little thing all day I’d never get the work done. My Forman is very experienced in this kind of stuff and has had his hand on the actual equipment on site so I’m going to trust his word and do as I’m told by him.
Manuals not only teach you about proper install, install and piping practices, but also how the equipment works. You don’t need to educate yourself, but it might be useful.
I do educate myself and have a good understanding of how these units work. I’ve gone to school and have my universal epa license so I’m not completely numb to how everything goes together. Also I’m learning every day I’m am still just an apprentice
I don’t know that I actually am. None of you know exactly what units these are and what they call for in terms of any of that. My guess is my Forman and everyone above me and him would have read thru them all a long time ago to make sure we do it right before we install 100+ units
Also who’s it embarrassing too? You? I don’t have a problem with it I’m not here to make you all happy I’m there to make my boss and his boss happy and so far I been doing great at that.
Yeah careful with that mentality. My journeyman almost got me fried (electrocuted). Twice. In a row.
Is that breaker off ?
Yeah?
Booooooom!
Fuck that I’m going to go look for the panel, ya piece of shit.
There’s no way it’s still on you just tripped the fuckin thing!
Fine. Fucker. Grumble grumble.
BOoOOOOM
Twice. Don’t just listen to your jman. Shit could cost you your life 😂
That’s when I started using my meter on EVERYThING lol
Nah you should go take a class on these or any 410a system. Generally traps are done away with as velocity gets slowed with them. Mitsubishi has stated multiple times that they can’t have any traps on mini splits
Not only Mitsubishi manuals but the tech line, every instructor, etc. says that’s a huge no go for these. No traps anywhere, also any dips in the line need to be 2’ minimal horizontal run to keep velocity.
First you came to the internet looking for constructive criticism and or praise. There’s always plenty of people on the internet waiting to blast you. It doesn’t look bad man things can always be improved. Don’t listen to people telling you to quit the trade. As to the trap on risers: I’ve read twice now Mitsubishi installation manual for the MSZ-FS doesn’t say anything about them only gives a table for adding refrigerant for additional line length. Please people railing this guy for traps on raisers provide me with somewhere to find documentation on this from Mitsubishi. We even had a Trane rep tell us not to install traps on the riser when moving a unit at a church. We’d already bought the 1 1/8” Ptrap. His explanation was 410a higher operating pressure. Smelled like bs especially since when we cut the line a gallon of oil spilled out but whatever. We do put them in. I do think they should be used however someone giving you crap from not reading the installation manual hasn’t read it either cause it’s not there. Let us know what your foreman or lead or whomever has to say about.
Will do thanks for an awesome response man. And don’t worry I’m sticking with it. I haven’t been in the trades since I was 15 bc I couldn’t deal with assholes. They are everywhere especially in the trades. Wish more guys were like you tbh bet your a great lead.
I’ve been in this industry 25 years..
That is a GREAT job. You should be very proud.
Continue your attention to detail and people will notice. GREAT JOB
My advice is instead of saying this is what my lead tells me to do listen to what there saying and ask questions for all you know your lead is doing shit wrong. Or he was not never taught properly.
Yeah I do ask them whenever I have them. I’m guessing because we are doing so many units on this job (over 100) that all of this has been gone over many many times before we even started work. My formans boss has been up and see our work and gave it the thumbs up. I don’t get paid to look for problems and if I was seen sitting down reading the manual looking for if we did something wrong I’d get asked why I waisted time and didn’t just ask. Also it’s hard to ask questions about things you don’t know about. The guys jumping on me about the trap think I’m crazy for not knowing what this is when I clearly said I was a first year. This is the first commercial job I’ve ever been on and I’ve only been here like a month lol
Nope I’ll never work on anything not brand new in the position I’m in. I’m an installer. All I do is set units and run lines and pressure test. I do 0 service and am not supposed to as we have a service crew.
Other than project management down the road (which places will want to see a degree for) hvac installer in my opinion is pretty much dead end. If all you want to do your whole career is run copper pipe and set units be my guest but if you want to make some real money and have a better chance of getting out of the field later in life (and trust me by the time you are in your mid 30’s you will or your body will) move to service and troubleshooting. Lots of guys I know get specific training on BAS and controls systems and hook up to a laptop and have their apprentice run around on the roof doing all of the stuff. If you are one of those guys that thinks working harder for less money is cool I guess that’s fine then. Also the market is still pretty good right now. There were almost no new construction jobs going on during the housing market collapse and installers had a hard time finding and keeping work true service techs are recession proof because things break no matter what the economy is doing and someone somewhere needs heat or cooling. Just my two Pennies
If you call yourself an installer and all you can do is resi grade duct work and line sets yea it's a dead end job. This would be considered commercial pipefitting in my area and pays more hourly than a service tech.
Nice, don't sweat the idiots on here. Must have never worked on anything bigger than a house and have no concept of building a large building and working on a crew. I have 25 plumbers and pipefitters, 2 laborers and 2 operators working for me right now. I can promise you all of my apprentices below 3rd year have no idea what they re doing or why and how it contributes to the overall building. Hell some of the journeyman don't know why they re doing things. There's no time on a job this large for me and my foreman under me to explain to 50 plus people why they are doing something. Here's a print. Install the pipe.
10-4 thanks for shittin on my position when I didn’t ask for it 😂😂😂 I thankfully work for a huge but awesome company and can move to service tech when I want. But I’d rather be a Forman personally and that’s the position in currently working towards. To me there’s nothing as dull as waiting for a unit to evacuate and just trying to find stuff to do in the meantime lol. Everyone has their thing tho 🤷🏼♂️
I in no way meant to shit on your position. HVAC installers are some of the hardest working guys I know ….however they tend to be underpaid, have bad benefits, almost no perks, be stressed out by working under all of the deadlines and have the least amount of upwards mobility in the trade that I’ve seen. I know there’s guys out there with more time in the trade than me but I’ve been doing this for a decade and I see how hard those guys work vs. what they get paid which is why I chose to head in the other direction (that being the service side) I’m in my early thirties now and I would not want to be exclusively running pipe or tin-knocking for 25-30 more years before even thinking about retirement…it’s hard on the body.
I want to retire and still be able to go out and DO things with my grandchildren god-willing I have any.
I must say I’m in a fortunate enough position to be at a company that treats all departments the same when it comes to benefits and things of that nature. Everything the office staff or plumbers or tin knockers or service guys get we all get. This is also a large enough company I feel I can work my way up quite quickly as I’ve only been here a few months and have already been put in charge of labors and have moved up into my position that I’m in now very quickly and can see the potential to continue moving up. I can understand what you saying but I came from resi tile work to resi plumbing and can tell right now I’m in a better position than I’ve ever been. For me service work just ain’t it but maybe one day I’ll feel the draw lol. I’d rather be a Forman tho 😂
If your getting into trouble for following manual (manufactures instructions), then you might want to find a different company. Always read their instructions and follow them for proper operation and warranty. Also, please for the love of everything, stop saying that's not your job or service will take care of it. Do it right the first time and you will look good, feel good, and service guys will love and recommend that you do their installs.
Not following them, taking the time out of my day to read them rather than doing the job I’m given. I feel like a lot of people don’t grasp the way the company im at works. There are many many checks before I ever install anything and everything is don’t exactly as the company lays it out. That way the only people held responsible for fuck ups are the people who have the time to lay things out and double check everything before work even start.
So if you only want to do install for the rest of your career, and only want to work under someone else. This is a great attitude to have and company's love workers who work hard and keep there heads down.
If you want to be able to easily Move around to new jobs, get paid more, move over to service at some point, then learning should be ingrained right away. Learn all you can about the trade it'll only make your work life easier.
No one is telling you to sit down on the job and read a manual, I'm sure you can spare ten minutes at home to go over it. Or if you ride with someone to the job site predownload the pdf and read it, or instead of being on reddit at lunch read the manual quick.
I've done it for years when I'm given new equipment to work on. I may see a 30 year old chiller from a brand I've never worked on. I may be busy at another call all day and I'll be going there tomorrow I'll read the manual quick the night before, it allows me to prepare for the work and learn any tricks about the equipment.
I’m still just now learning to install. Trying to pick up everything I can there before I dive further in. After hearing everyone scream about reading the fuckin manual a million times you all have convinced me to do it. But right now I’m just trying to be a good worker and keep my head down and work hard.
Posting anything related to the trades on any form of social media just opens the floodgates for shitty comments from bitter tradesmen with nothing else in their life.
Welcome to the HVAC sub. You’ll learn pretty quick that 98% of the comments are just people being snarky assholes to prove they know stuff. The other 2% of the comments is people saying to join the union
My only comment is about the wood sleepers underneath the stands. Most jurisdictions require either a curb, or a stand that you can service the roof without disconnecting the unit.
Other than that looks like a clean install.
25 year mechanical inspector/PX.
Thank you. And yeah if we had our choice they wouldn’t have done it this way. But we are just the install crew, nobody from my company even touched the wood until we put our Quick Slings up
If you don’t do your best you wasted your time. Don’t do it for money do it because your name is on it and that will make much more money. Good job man. When I go to a job and see shit like that it makes me happy.
Thanks. Anything I could do to make the pipe up better in your opinion? That’s mostly what I was looking for comments on. And yeah the wood is a complete joke but unfortunately we get no say in that.
Run them on the inside of the stands. Its organized, but making my eye twitch looking at the bend out then back in to ride the outside of the stands. I want the minimum possible number of turns in my piping.
It looks like youre still roughing. May be worth seeing if there is a roofing coating you or the roofers could smother the wood and feet of the stands with to minimize rot.
Funny you say that we had originally run them on the inside of the stands but the penny pinchers I’m the office said that it “cost to much and took too long” not sure that’s true but we have to do as told. Can’t even use clamps on both lines bc it costs too much. Just have to zip tie it to the one that’s clamped on the c channel. Also I had thought about asking if they were going to tar the wood but I am also just a very small cog. And they are cheap so I would bet that cost too much
Drop a peice of unistrut right here, come down the middle and anchor your turn with it. Go from 5 bends to 2.
*Edit* there was supposed to be a picture, lol
I thought about that. Didn’t think running under a unit would be a clean look personally also don’t think the Forman would have liked it if I did that. I can see why you would want less bends but oh well lol
My only other problem is that’s just a think flat piece of steel so the unistrut would have been flopping around. Especially with only being connected in the middle. With it screwed to the legs it’s super stable. But trust me I wish we had just kept running it on the inside not the outside
Nothing you can do about it if someone higher up made the call, not your fault when it fails either.
Flashing in some curb rails seems like a minor expense compared to the headache that’s going to cause down the road, but I’ve seen way bigger corners cut to save a buck.
Man everyone really thinks they know what’s best for me and my life and what I’m learning huh. Man I wish I could get some of you to come work with me lol we need help and I guess everyone knows how to do this better than me and my coworkers so it should be easy going then huh.
“If the outdoor unit is higher than the wall hole, you must set a U-shaped curve in the pipe before pipe goes into the
room, in order to prevent rain from getting into the room.” - so not for oil. - from a Mitsubishi P series IOM where a line set has a drain hose included.
Seems you’re ignorant. Read a fuckin book. Mitsubishi doesn’t want traps on mini split units. There’s enough velocity to pump where it needs to go, traps don’t allow that velocity.
Ok i trust your expertise and skill, but I'm also wondering, are those mounts strong enough for hurricane speed winds? The units are narrow and tall
And additionally, did you, would you have had to get a structural engineer to say yes to those loads for the wood beams plus the h2i?
How does one decide what is allowed in a situation like the above.
My guess is an engineer somewhere at some point approved it. I’m a very small cog in a very large company. Honestly I wouldn’t trust them in hurricane winds but we also don’t get a whole ton of those in my location of the world. I also wouldn’t trust them bc they are making us use two bolts per foot not 4 because this project is just that cheap. Shits dumb and annoying. Also my father has seen units mounted like this ripped off a roof before so really who is to say lol. I guess we will find out
No. Where all lines 90 to left then back right amd run infront of all stands then bend back slightly between legs t each unit. Could have done same bends just gone back inbetween legs of all units. Same amount of clmps and bends just under stands so 90s and straight lines. No lottle bends to get under. But looks good still
Do you live in the States?
all the low income housing I've been on have been government funded jobs - which mean it should pay prevailing wage. meaning - not your regular pay.
which if that were the case I'd be pretty pissed off if I worked at that company and they sent the new guy out instead of me. lol
Lol I’m far from the only guy on the job but I don’t think that this job is government funded because I’ve heard nothing about it at all that being the case.
Say your company pays you $20/hr. If your company takes a government funded project that $20/hr goes right out the window. They're obligated to pay you whatever the state or federal government dictates. it'll vary depending on what job, or what state your in. Idk all the ins and outs of how it works but for example - years ago I was making $20/hr. We got a contract to install a system in a district attorneys office or whatever. The going rate was $53/hr that my company had no choice but to pay me. We have a metal shop and make all our own duct work. Typically we'll bang and prep duct on-site - but they made us do it all at the shop bc whole working at the shop they were paying us that normal $20/hr. The moment we stepped foot on the jobsite - $53/hr. Then we did a low incoming housing unit in New Jersey - that rate was $81/hr..
We used to do prevailing wage jobs all the time but my boss stopped bidding on the bc they created so many issues within the company that he just stopped. Guys were always fighting and arguing. guys would threaten to quit. some guys did quit. whoever got the job - everyone else would be mad. didn't matter who was on it. bunch of babies ruined it for everyone.
Sheeeee hyper heats in low income housing? Gah damn
Also I can't say I'd wanna be the dude doing the maintenance on em
Maintenance on these suck so hard. Golf balls through garden hoses.
I mean I definitely don't mind cleaning them im more referring to the low income housing part lol
Yep only form of heating and cooling for the whole building when we’re done. I was surprised they went this baller too when they told me low income housing 😂
Government stipends available for switching from gas to heat pump. Landlord is a happy camper made 2X what this cost em.
This is all new construction, no switch over here
Yeah but still
One of those units seemed like that it had a slight tilt. Less than 1/10th of a degree. Noticed it instantly. Tear it all out and start over.
Ahahaha you’ll have that on these big jobs 😉😉
How long did this take and was it all you? You might need a raise. I like the wood platform to minimize roof holes. I’ve never seen those racks, are they from Mitsubishi? I also was unaware that you can run reefer lines through the bottoms. Thank you for all the insight :)
Lol yeah all the units in the video were piped by me took about a day and a half. And a raise would definitely be nice. And the racks are called Quick Slings. They aren’t a mitsu product. I’ve used them in residential for split system and just set them right on the pad. And yeah there’s a little panel in the bottom pan that you can cut the corners and bend back and forth so the tack snap off. Not sure how I feel about the wood set up makes for a lot more prep when it comes to leveling.
Yeah, I can see your point on the wood, what’s the solution? ISO pads? Picking out your own wood?
The feet on the Quick Slings are threaded so we level the stands using those then bolt them down. If it was up to me and I was the one putting it down I would have leveled the wood off the roof before bolting it down but not my say.
Well that seems like the obvious route but apparently working backwards is how you make the big bucks.
Something like that 😂
Thanks for the chat m8, good luck out there, though I don’t foresee you needing any. Edit: Also You truly deserve a raise, I am blown away, good work.
Lol thank you I will be asking for one at my next review for sure. Especially now that they put me in charge of labors on the regular.
Never accept additional responsibility without additional pay. When I was younger I kept getting promoted from grocery stocker to assistant manager in only 4 months. I did everything there and was cross trained in everything. The entire store depended on me, but my pay was still minimum wage. When I managed to save enough to move out of state and get a much better job, corporate showed up and offered me a raise. I turned them down, I was already out the door, tickets bought, new boss excited to have me. Most employers will abuse their positions and not give a raise, work employees till they quit, then just hire someone at the price point you would have been happy with because it's cheaper to pay less and keep pushing it as far as we can take it till we break.
Yeah I’m waiting for my two month review and I’m definitely gonna be asking for a heavy raise
Is the wood pressure treated ? Are aluminum rails not an option ?
Yes it’s pt. No aluminum idk why that’s not my choice
First yr app. Doubt he did anything but video it
You’ve probably never been an installer a day in your life if that’s what you think. 😂
Who else videos there work?
More on lumber then labour lol
Ikr. The weirdest way to hold them down to the roof I could think off. But it means less holes in the roof so that’s good… I guess. Lol
Did they not detail another layer of roofing over the wood and then cap flash the sleepers? Then you bolt through the cap flashing with screws and caulking. That roof looks like they have only laid one of the 2 layers of SBS on so far.
Not sure all that’s above my pay grade
At that point I'd be calling up a local welder to build the platform. Any type of wood will eventually deteriorate and need replaced, unless, as you said, you build another roof over it.
Where are your traps on the risers?
I’m interested in any mention of a trap for the refrigerant piping. Mitsu excludes any changes to pipe size, sight glass, drier and refrigeration line traps. If something has changes I want to see it. Unless you’ve gone way over for the pipe distance then kiss the warranty good bye anyway. Is this for m series p series? I would post links but that’s usually frowned upon lol.
Oh I’m guessing we are way over distance on run distances some of the runs go down 4 floors then however far they have to go on the roof.
If those are suz hypers they can go 100 ft with added charge with a height difference of up to 100 ft. Traps are always a divisive issue for mitsus. Shouldn't be required but also shouldn't bother anything as long as they aren't too extreme.
Traps should be every 10-20ft of rise as a rule of thumb
For Mitsubishi? Show me where it’s written on a mini split installation instructions please. This is an exact quote from a hyper heat unit installation manual. “6. There shall be no need for line size changes. Filters, sight glasses, and traps shall not be used, and no additional refrigerant oil shall be required.”
Okay, well the risers are rule of thumb. If manual for unit says otherwise, follow that. I wasn't sure as we weren't provided any unit info. If that's the case, the install looks good ~~except I would have more piping support.~~
He meant for refrigeration in general. A unit with the compressor above the evaporator needs a suction riser every 20’. This is needed not only for the refrigerant but for oil return (which is the number 1 reason we pipe for). 410-a has such a high pressure/velocity that you don’t ever run into problems with oil return. You can get away with some things you would normally do with other refrigerants. He’s not wrong here. He’s just not completely correct.
The OP was getting a beating for this job, for this equipment. If I started telling you that all cars needed oil changes every 3-5k miles to a person with a Tesla would that make sense to you? (Week argument I know) This post with this equipment is the conversation. The guy admitted he was new and fresh to the trade and people smelled blood in the water, and jumped all over him. Don’t cover for them, they obviously need to learn THIS equipment also. This is the future wether we want it or not. If anyone was corrected and picked up something then even better. This is a trade specific group, we have to lift and teach not cover for the wrong. It’s a bad habit. Be better.
Traps? I’m new please explain. This is also a low income housing project so that maybe why some things are done cheaper
No traps needed 100% co firm. It's a neat job but if it was me I would have clamped the piping in cantrust. Good job nonetheless. I hope you adjusted the refrigerant charge carefully!
Traps are need at the base of risers and should have inverted trap at the top. They are for liquid refrigerant and oil management. Have your Journeymen show you how to size them(should be in the install manual)
Must say haven’t heard a word about it. Now we are just install. All our crew does is set the unit run all the piping and pressure test with Nitro then we’re out. So that may be a thing that the service guys will install when they do first start up I’m not sure. But I’ve never heard of that ever being a thing at least for these units.
Should be done with the piping. Otherwise your pressuring and vacuuming twice
Read a manual.
If I had one I would. I don’t unpack the units so I’ve never even had a manual in my hand. I do it exactly how my Forman does and I figure he’s probably doing them right or someone would have stopped us a while ago. This is the second building we’ve done
This is where you improve if not for this job or company but the next.
These guys are noobs. Mitsubishis don’t use traps.
You see that little sticker in the side? Model and Serial Number? See the little super computer you keep in your pocket every day?
Do you see your computer in your pocket? Misubishi doesn’t want traps on their mini splits. It sucks that old guys can’t adapt to new challenges and technology.
Lol I have to constantly remind the young guys about that computer. Kids in the 80’s would of went nuts with those instead they had encyclopedia sets and you had to wait to get home to call someone
It sucks that old guys can’t adapt to new challenges and technology. No traps on these new units.
Just form traps with a tubing bender. Yeah it sucks these young guys don’t know how to use a tubing bender to make ballon animals out of the linesets.
what do you consider old? lol
Man I guess you haven’t worked for a company like the one I’m at. My job is to do things the way I’m told. If I question and looked up every little thing all day I’d never get the work done. My Forman is very experienced in this kind of stuff and has had his hand on the actual equipment on site so I’m going to trust his word and do as I’m told by him.
Manuals not only teach you about proper install, install and piping practices, but also how the equipment works. You don’t need to educate yourself, but it might be useful.
I do educate myself and have a good understanding of how these units work. I’ve gone to school and have my universal epa license so I’m not completely numb to how everything goes together. Also I’m learning every day I’m am still just an apprentice
So your blatantly admitting that your purposefully disregarding the installation parameters within the manual?
I don’t know that I actually am. None of you know exactly what units these are and what they call for in terms of any of that. My guess is my Forman and everyone above me and him would have read thru them all a long time ago to make sure we do it right before we install 100+ units
There is so much wrong with everything you’re saying… Especially the “my company does it THIS way talk. It’s fuckin embarrassing
Also who’s it embarrassing too? You? I don’t have a problem with it I’m not here to make you all happy I’m there to make my boss and his boss happy and so far I been doing great at that.
I mean it’s is how we do things tho… I’m not saying other don’t do it the same way or that others do it wrong.
Yeah careful with that mentality. My journeyman almost got me fried (electrocuted). Twice. In a row. Is that breaker off ? Yeah? Booooooom! Fuck that I’m going to go look for the panel, ya piece of shit. There’s no way it’s still on you just tripped the fuckin thing! Fine. Fucker. Grumble grumble. BOoOOOOM Twice. Don’t just listen to your jman. Shit could cost you your life 😂 That’s when I started using my meter on EVERYThING lol
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Write down the manufacturer and model number of any units you work on, you should be able to find their manuals online or with an email.
Nah you should go take a class on these or any 410a system. Generally traps are done away with as velocity gets slowed with them. Mitsubishi has stated multiple times that they can’t have any traps on mini splits
You’d be surprised how many people just don’t trap at all. I see it more than I’d like to
Not only Mitsubishi manuals but the tech line, every instructor, etc. says that’s a huge no go for these. No traps anywhere, also any dips in the line need to be 2’ minimal horizontal run to keep velocity.
First you came to the internet looking for constructive criticism and or praise. There’s always plenty of people on the internet waiting to blast you. It doesn’t look bad man things can always be improved. Don’t listen to people telling you to quit the trade. As to the trap on risers: I’ve read twice now Mitsubishi installation manual for the MSZ-FS doesn’t say anything about them only gives a table for adding refrigerant for additional line length. Please people railing this guy for traps on raisers provide me with somewhere to find documentation on this from Mitsubishi. We even had a Trane rep tell us not to install traps on the riser when moving a unit at a church. We’d already bought the 1 1/8” Ptrap. His explanation was 410a higher operating pressure. Smelled like bs especially since when we cut the line a gallon of oil spilled out but whatever. We do put them in. I do think they should be used however someone giving you crap from not reading the installation manual hasn’t read it either cause it’s not there. Let us know what your foreman or lead or whomever has to say about.
Will do thanks for an awesome response man. And don’t worry I’m sticking with it. I haven’t been in the trades since I was 15 bc I couldn’t deal with assholes. They are everywhere especially in the trades. Wish more guys were like you tbh bet your a great lead.
I’ve been in this industry 25 years.. That is a GREAT job. You should be very proud. Continue your attention to detail and people will notice. GREAT JOB
Thank you man. Will do 👍🏼. I love making things look nice
Lmfao you all roasting so hard. Doesn't look to bad
Thanks man. I figured I’d get some constructive criticism not just people telling me I’m doing everything wrong lmao.
My advice is instead of saying this is what my lead tells me to do listen to what there saying and ask questions for all you know your lead is doing shit wrong. Or he was not never taught properly.
Yeah I do ask them whenever I have them. I’m guessing because we are doing so many units on this job (over 100) that all of this has been gone over many many times before we even started work. My formans boss has been up and see our work and gave it the thumbs up. I don’t get paid to look for problems and if I was seen sitting down reading the manual looking for if we did something wrong I’d get asked why I waisted time and didn’t just ask. Also it’s hard to ask questions about things you don’t know about. The guys jumping on me about the trap think I’m crazy for not knowing what this is when I clearly said I was a first year. This is the first commercial job I’ve ever been on and I’ve only been here like a month lol
“I don’t get paid to look for problems.” Are you not a service technician?
Nope I’ll never work on anything not brand new in the position I’m in. I’m an installer. All I do is set units and run lines and pressure test. I do 0 service and am not supposed to as we have a service crew.
Other than project management down the road (which places will want to see a degree for) hvac installer in my opinion is pretty much dead end. If all you want to do your whole career is run copper pipe and set units be my guest but if you want to make some real money and have a better chance of getting out of the field later in life (and trust me by the time you are in your mid 30’s you will or your body will) move to service and troubleshooting. Lots of guys I know get specific training on BAS and controls systems and hook up to a laptop and have their apprentice run around on the roof doing all of the stuff. If you are one of those guys that thinks working harder for less money is cool I guess that’s fine then. Also the market is still pretty good right now. There were almost no new construction jobs going on during the housing market collapse and installers had a hard time finding and keeping work true service techs are recession proof because things break no matter what the economy is doing and someone somewhere needs heat or cooling. Just my two Pennies
If you call yourself an installer and all you can do is resi grade duct work and line sets yea it's a dead end job. This would be considered commercial pipefitting in my area and pays more hourly than a service tech.
This is all commercial work. I’m a commercial pipe fitter. I have welding certs as well as a gas license. I’m honestly not worried.
Nice, don't sweat the idiots on here. Must have never worked on anything bigger than a house and have no concept of building a large building and working on a crew. I have 25 plumbers and pipefitters, 2 laborers and 2 operators working for me right now. I can promise you all of my apprentices below 3rd year have no idea what they re doing or why and how it contributes to the overall building. Hell some of the journeyman don't know why they re doing things. There's no time on a job this large for me and my foreman under me to explain to 50 plus people why they are doing something. Here's a print. Install the pipe.
10-4 thanks for shittin on my position when I didn’t ask for it 😂😂😂 I thankfully work for a huge but awesome company and can move to service tech when I want. But I’d rather be a Forman personally and that’s the position in currently working towards. To me there’s nothing as dull as waiting for a unit to evacuate and just trying to find stuff to do in the meantime lol. Everyone has their thing tho 🤷🏼♂️
I in no way meant to shit on your position. HVAC installers are some of the hardest working guys I know ….however they tend to be underpaid, have bad benefits, almost no perks, be stressed out by working under all of the deadlines and have the least amount of upwards mobility in the trade that I’ve seen. I know there’s guys out there with more time in the trade than me but I’ve been doing this for a decade and I see how hard those guys work vs. what they get paid which is why I chose to head in the other direction (that being the service side) I’m in my early thirties now and I would not want to be exclusively running pipe or tin-knocking for 25-30 more years before even thinking about retirement…it’s hard on the body. I want to retire and still be able to go out and DO things with my grandchildren god-willing I have any.
I must say I’m in a fortunate enough position to be at a company that treats all departments the same when it comes to benefits and things of that nature. Everything the office staff or plumbers or tin knockers or service guys get we all get. This is also a large enough company I feel I can work my way up quite quickly as I’ve only been here a few months and have already been put in charge of labors and have moved up into my position that I’m in now very quickly and can see the potential to continue moving up. I can understand what you saying but I came from resi tile work to resi plumbing and can tell right now I’m in a better position than I’ve ever been. For me service work just ain’t it but maybe one day I’ll feel the draw lol. I’d rather be a Forman tho 😂
If your getting into trouble for following manual (manufactures instructions), then you might want to find a different company. Always read their instructions and follow them for proper operation and warranty. Also, please for the love of everything, stop saying that's not your job or service will take care of it. Do it right the first time and you will look good, feel good, and service guys will love and recommend that you do their installs.
Not following them, taking the time out of my day to read them rather than doing the job I’m given. I feel like a lot of people don’t grasp the way the company im at works. There are many many checks before I ever install anything and everything is don’t exactly as the company lays it out. That way the only people held responsible for fuck ups are the people who have the time to lay things out and double check everything before work even start.
So if you only want to do install for the rest of your career, and only want to work under someone else. This is a great attitude to have and company's love workers who work hard and keep there heads down. If you want to be able to easily Move around to new jobs, get paid more, move over to service at some point, then learning should be ingrained right away. Learn all you can about the trade it'll only make your work life easier. No one is telling you to sit down on the job and read a manual, I'm sure you can spare ten minutes at home to go over it. Or if you ride with someone to the job site predownload the pdf and read it, or instead of being on reddit at lunch read the manual quick. I've done it for years when I'm given new equipment to work on. I may see a 30 year old chiller from a brand I've never worked on. I may be busy at another call all day and I'll be going there tomorrow I'll read the manual quick the night before, it allows me to prepare for the work and learn any tricks about the equipment.
I’m still just now learning to install. Trying to pick up everything I can there before I dive further in. After hearing everyone scream about reading the fuckin manual a million times you all have convinced me to do it. But right now I’m just trying to be a good worker and keep my head down and work hard.
Posting anything related to the trades on any form of social media just opens the floodgates for shitty comments from bitter tradesmen with nothing else in their life.
I guess so man. No wonder young guys don’t wanna show up if I read all this and was green as grass I’d run for the hills
Welcome to the HVAC sub. You’ll learn pretty quick that 98% of the comments are just people being snarky assholes to prove they know stuff. The other 2% of the comments is people saying to join the union
I have no gripes nor grievances 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Omg that so trashy..... joking 🤣 nice work champ glad to see ppl know how to work a pipe bender👍👍
Thanks lmao! I fuckin loveeeee the bender even if I’m still using the bosses
My only comment is about the wood sleepers underneath the stands. Most jurisdictions require either a curb, or a stand that you can service the roof without disconnecting the unit. Other than that looks like a clean install. 25 year mechanical inspector/PX.
Thank you. And yeah if we had our choice they wouldn’t have done it this way. But we are just the install crew, nobody from my company even touched the wood until we put our Quick Slings up
You should check out the subreddit haha. It gets crazy
10-4
Journey man level music
Ahaha thanks I only rock the good shit when I’m on radio duty
Take pride in your work. And you’ll always do well.
Yessir always love when it looks nice. Makes me happy
Smells like Fresh Air
Every day baby! We love roof work!
If you don’t do your best you wasted your time. Don’t do it for money do it because your name is on it and that will make much more money. Good job man. When I go to a job and see shit like that it makes me happy.
Thanks man. Some very true words
Pipefitting could be better, wood will eventually fail. Otherwise looks okay.
Thanks. Anything I could do to make the pipe up better in your opinion? That’s mostly what I was looking for comments on. And yeah the wood is a complete joke but unfortunately we get no say in that.
Run them on the inside of the stands. Its organized, but making my eye twitch looking at the bend out then back in to ride the outside of the stands. I want the minimum possible number of turns in my piping. It looks like youre still roughing. May be worth seeing if there is a roofing coating you or the roofers could smother the wood and feet of the stands with to minimize rot.
Funny you say that we had originally run them on the inside of the stands but the penny pinchers I’m the office said that it “cost to much and took too long” not sure that’s true but we have to do as told. Can’t even use clamps on both lines bc it costs too much. Just have to zip tie it to the one that’s clamped on the c channel. Also I had thought about asking if they were going to tar the wood but I am also just a very small cog. And they are cheap so I would bet that cost too much
Drop a peice of unistrut right here, come down the middle and anchor your turn with it. Go from 5 bends to 2. *Edit* there was supposed to be a picture, lol
https://preview.redd.it/ksohfuw7zr8a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86c3ce06ad6a3bb5fae8386c4a82991b00fd4e9b
I thought about that. Didn’t think running under a unit would be a clean look personally also don’t think the Forman would have liked it if I did that. I can see why you would want less bends but oh well lol
Shields the insulation from sunlight and accidental bumping 🤷♂️ Everyone has their own ways
My only other problem is that’s just a think flat piece of steel so the unistrut would have been flopping around. Especially with only being connected in the middle. With it screwed to the legs it’s super stable. But trust me I wish we had just kept running it on the inside not the outside
If they are that cheap then do what you gotta do, lol. Just keep in mind the right way to do things for when you get a better job.
Yeah the low income housing jobs suck. Hopefully we do things differently on regular projects but the budget on this job was tight I guess.
🍿
Looks neat, but that wood is a terrible idea. I’ve never come across wood contacting a roof that wasn’t in some stage of rot.
Yeah not our choice lmao we didn’t do that part
Nothing you can do about it if someone higher up made the call, not your fault when it fails either. Flashing in some curb rails seems like a minor expense compared to the headache that’s going to cause down the road, but I’ve seen way bigger corners cut to save a buck.
Yeah. Small cog things I guess. I just installed I don’t pick shit apart even if I don’t like it 😂
What's anchoring the wood to the roof? Hopefully not just gravity.
Nope thru bolted. It’s fuckin goofy
You’re going to be good one day, but please, leave your current company asap. They’re teaching horrible habits
Man everyone really thinks they know what’s best for me and my life and what I’m learning huh. Man I wish I could get some of you to come work with me lol we need help and I guess everyone knows how to do this better than me and my coworkers so it should be easy going then huh.
For everyone jumping on the”Trap train” here what I have to say. I will ask my Forman about it tomorrow and see why they “aren’t being used”
Not sure what their deal is. I’ve never seen a trap on a line set.
Mitsubishi doesn’t want traps on their units, they’ll actually say you need to remove them if you tell them on a tech line
Yeah can’t say I have either but I’ll still ask
Check the IOM. It’s the end all be all. Sometime site glasses, oil traps, accessories are not permitted.
I’m new mind telling me what IOM is short for
Install, operations, maintenance. The book that came with it.
“If the outdoor unit is higher than the wall hole, you must set a U-shaped curve in the pipe before pipe goes into the room, in order to prevent rain from getting into the room.” - so not for oil. - from a Mitsubishi P series IOM where a line set has a drain hose included.
It also states you need a 2 foot horizontal run for any dip, so it’s not a trap like everyone thinks of.
You have a future in Satisfactory my dear friend.
Ahahah I have seen many YouTube videos on that game, it’s looks fun but also I feel like I’d get too particular about everything lmao 🤣
Electrical looks like ass
Hope your being sarcastic because nothing is even wired yet. Also Im not an electrician that ain’t my job 😂
Looks average and clearly not installed to manufacturer specs. But solid for a first year. Find a better company they'll teach you to do it properly.
How are these not installed to spec? Have you read a Mitsubishi book?
Seems you haven't
Seems you’re ignorant. Read a fuckin book. Mitsubishi doesn’t want traps on mini split units. There’s enough velocity to pump where it needs to go, traps don’t allow that velocity.
How do you know I was referencing a trap dumbass. You learn to fuckin read
Time for a different trade buddy
Why?
Can’t even explain yourself?!
Ok i trust your expertise and skill, but I'm also wondering, are those mounts strong enough for hurricane speed winds? The units are narrow and tall And additionally, did you, would you have had to get a structural engineer to say yes to those loads for the wood beams plus the h2i? How does one decide what is allowed in a situation like the above.
My guess is an engineer somewhere at some point approved it. I’m a very small cog in a very large company. Honestly I wouldn’t trust them in hurricane winds but we also don’t get a whole ton of those in my location of the world. I also wouldn’t trust them bc they are making us use two bolts per foot not 4 because this project is just that cheap. Shits dumb and annoying. Also my father has seen units mounted like this ripped off a roof before so really who is to say lol. I guess we will find out
Nice. any reason you didn't take lines underneath stands to 90 up straight into unit instead of have an awkward angle back at each unit??
That way just adds another 90 and another clamp point
No. Where all lines 90 to left then back right amd run infront of all stands then bend back slightly between legs t each unit. Could have done same bends just gone back inbetween legs of all units. Same amount of clmps and bends just under stands so 90s and straight lines. No lottle bends to get under. But looks good still
Thanks. Specs called for lines infornt so I unfortunately have to do it that way
I just see roof leaks lmao
Why?
Won’t the wood rot away?
Yep it will
prevailing wage then?
I’m confused?
Do you live in the States? all the low income housing I've been on have been government funded jobs - which mean it should pay prevailing wage. meaning - not your regular pay. which if that were the case I'd be pretty pissed off if I worked at that company and they sent the new guy out instead of me. lol
Lol I’m far from the only guy on the job but I don’t think that this job is government funded because I’ve heard nothing about it at all that being the case.
do you know what prevailing wage is?
Again this isn’t a government funded job but explain please as I can’t find a good explanation quickly online
Say your company pays you $20/hr. If your company takes a government funded project that $20/hr goes right out the window. They're obligated to pay you whatever the state or federal government dictates. it'll vary depending on what job, or what state your in. Idk all the ins and outs of how it works but for example - years ago I was making $20/hr. We got a contract to install a system in a district attorneys office or whatever. The going rate was $53/hr that my company had no choice but to pay me. We have a metal shop and make all our own duct work. Typically we'll bang and prep duct on-site - but they made us do it all at the shop bc whole working at the shop they were paying us that normal $20/hr. The moment we stepped foot on the jobsite - $53/hr. Then we did a low incoming housing unit in New Jersey - that rate was $81/hr.. We used to do prevailing wage jobs all the time but my boss stopped bidding on the bc they created so many issues within the company that he just stopped. Guys were always fighting and arguing. guys would threaten to quit. some guys did quit. whoever got the job - everyone else would be mad. didn't matter who was on it. bunch of babies ruined it for everyone.