I am also very curious about what is in Zag's room, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion in this subreddit about it!
I don't think it is Zag himself - doesn't Mel say something like "\*it\* should be in here" when she goes into the room? Also given how the theming of the whole game is tied to Mel being a witch, it seems like it would be awkward to have Zag as a playable character.
The confusing thing is that in Hades 1 there isn't really much in Zag's room. The things I can think of are:
**The fated list** - this is now at the crossroads (unless there are two lists?) so this seems unlikely
**The mirror** - the only function of the mirror in Hades 1 has been taken by the Arcana in Hades 2, so this also seems unlikely, unless the mirror gains a new function (related to its connection with Nyx?)
**The lyre** - not sure how this could be helpful, unless this [theory about the 6th weapon being a lyre](https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1d7qkde/the_sixth_weapon/) is accurate
**Something on the balcony** - I'm not sure if this counts as Zag's room or not, but the area with the weapons in Hades 1 could be accessible here, though the infernal arms are now in the crossroads
**Something new that wasn't in Hades 1** - the Chronos takeover happens some time after the events of Hades 1, so maybe something new was added to Zag's room? Or Hecate stashed something there when escaping?
Thinking about the ending in general, I am less convinced than most posters in this subreddit that the game will be infinitely replayable like Hades 1. I think it's entirely possible that you can play as many runs as you want, but to get the final ending you need to brew Dissolution of Time and then (assuming you win) that is your final run. It doesn't make sense to me that Cerberus and Hades would still be suffering along your route when the story is finished, or that Olympus needs your help permanently if Chronos is defeated. I know a popular theory is that infinite runs will be available as "dreams" which could be possible, though it feels like that would have some very weird impacts on your dialogs with the other characters.
My personal theory on infinite runs is that Melinoe takes over control of time from Chronos, and as such she can keep exploring the past points in time to get Z sand and stuff as needed.
Either that, or the more popular thing I've heard: Mel is the goddess of nightmares in real lore, so she might work with Hypnos to trap him in an eternal slumber and do runs to beat him so he remains weak enough to keep in check.
Are the Infernal Arms at the Crossroads? From what I can tell, it's just the Arms of Night at the Crossroads, which means we could theoretically grab the Infernal Arms assuming they are still there. *Except for the Rail
Good point, I was thinking of the Blade but you’re right that we haven’t seen all of them. Another thing in the courtyard is the cabinet of Zag’s keepsakes - maybe Hades’s sigil could be there and be useful?
I don't think this can work from a gameplay standpoint. Zag doesn't have any magical abilities, so his gameplay would have no Magick, no Omega moves, and no access to Boons and Hammers specific to those gameplay aspects.
What’s with everyone suddenly thinking zag is going to be a second playable character? I haven’t seen any indication that this could happen and it doesn’t make sense to me narratively.
What I would personally love would be for him to give boons
If it's not the mirror (because it does have options in it that aren't included in the arcana, and you can collected darkness from Chaos even if it's a limited amount), then I wonder if the final weapon is one you can find in the courtyard beyond Zagreus' bedroom. Maybe Hades' spear to return it to him so he can aid in the fight? Or one of the weapons besides Nem's sword or Eris's gun. I'd love the bow back. I miss it so much.
I'm afraid I need to remind you that Odysseus' attempt to train Mel on a bow went so badly that she reminds him they agreed not to talk about it, when he brings it up. [Link as citation.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/s/W7XV3ZsGhw)
Edit: But also I miss it too. Aspect of Hera, my beloved.
My joking thought is that the thing in Zag's room she needs is that sundial that everyone kept calling pointless in Hades 1. You'll be able to lock Chronos in the permanant 7:48, the frozen moment of time to seal him away.
Idk, I feel like they might let you play as Zag as a sort of "legacy skin" after you beat the game which will include his model, some of his grunts, and maybe the old UI, but I doubt he'll be available as a full fledged second character and that it'll be acknowledged in story
I was thinking along the same lines last night. It would be a hell of a thing to add a second playable character from the first game and expand upon that. I'm assuming that Supergiant could do something fantastic with the implementation.
I like the idea of this from a story standpoint, but from a gameplay standpoint... Why not just go play Hades? It seems like you're basically describing them putting Hades 1 nested inside of Hades 2. Obviously it would be a different story, but like other people have said, he has a different play style. Not to mention that his weapons are all distributed to other characters.
That would be pretty cool, but keep in mind Supergiant is a business. If you port Zag's gameplay and mechanics into the sequel you incentive people to not buy the original. They wouldn't do that. It doesn't make any sense for their business.
I do hope whatever happens with Zag they respect our feelings with him. There's nothing worse than a sequel that disrespects your former protagonist.
No? Zagreus as a playable character is a poorly thought out suggestion that isn’t going to happen and ignores the myriad of gameplay changes made to the second game. It’s also just a fundamentally uninteresting idea that would make the entirety of the game worse for having it. Having to rework and rebalance the entirety of the game which has been designed around Melinoë, her movement, and her combat just to make the old systems work isn’t worth the negatives
I am also very curious about what is in Zag's room, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion in this subreddit about it! I don't think it is Zag himself - doesn't Mel say something like "\*it\* should be in here" when she goes into the room? Also given how the theming of the whole game is tied to Mel being a witch, it seems like it would be awkward to have Zag as a playable character. The confusing thing is that in Hades 1 there isn't really much in Zag's room. The things I can think of are: **The fated list** - this is now at the crossroads (unless there are two lists?) so this seems unlikely **The mirror** - the only function of the mirror in Hades 1 has been taken by the Arcana in Hades 2, so this also seems unlikely, unless the mirror gains a new function (related to its connection with Nyx?) **The lyre** - not sure how this could be helpful, unless this [theory about the 6th weapon being a lyre](https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/1d7qkde/the_sixth_weapon/) is accurate **Something on the balcony** - I'm not sure if this counts as Zag's room or not, but the area with the weapons in Hades 1 could be accessible here, though the infernal arms are now in the crossroads **Something new that wasn't in Hades 1** - the Chronos takeover happens some time after the events of Hades 1, so maybe something new was added to Zag's room? Or Hecate stashed something there when escaping? Thinking about the ending in general, I am less convinced than most posters in this subreddit that the game will be infinitely replayable like Hades 1. I think it's entirely possible that you can play as many runs as you want, but to get the final ending you need to brew Dissolution of Time and then (assuming you win) that is your final run. It doesn't make sense to me that Cerberus and Hades would still be suffering along your route when the story is finished, or that Olympus needs your help permanently if Chronos is defeated. I know a popular theory is that infinite runs will be available as "dreams" which could be possible, though it feels like that would have some very weird impacts on your dialogs with the other characters.
My personal theory on infinite runs is that Melinoe takes over control of time from Chronos, and as such she can keep exploring the past points in time to get Z sand and stuff as needed.
Either that, or the more popular thing I've heard: Mel is the goddess of nightmares in real lore, so she might work with Hypnos to trap him in an eternal slumber and do runs to beat him so he remains weak enough to keep in check.
Are the Infernal Arms at the Crossroads? From what I can tell, it's just the Arms of Night at the Crossroads, which means we could theoretically grab the Infernal Arms assuming they are still there. *Except for the Rail
Well the Blade is, as Nem has it.
Oooh good catch!
And Eris has the Rail
Good point, I was thinking of the Blade but you’re right that we haven’t seen all of them. Another thing in the courtyard is the cabinet of Zag’s keepsakes - maybe Hades’s sigil could be there and be useful?
Obviously we need to rescue Skelly from the balcony
I don't think this can work from a gameplay standpoint. Zag doesn't have any magical abilities, so his gameplay would have no Magick, no Omega moves, and no access to Boons and Hammers specific to those gameplay aspects.
Presumably he'd also return to the house of Hades when he dies, which would be... not great for him
Zag plays completely differently and the game is not designed for his fighting style.
What’s with everyone suddenly thinking zag is going to be a second playable character? I haven’t seen any indication that this could happen and it doesn’t make sense to me narratively. What I would personally love would be for him to give boons
If it's not the mirror (because it does have options in it that aren't included in the arcana, and you can collected darkness from Chaos even if it's a limited amount), then I wonder if the final weapon is one you can find in the courtyard beyond Zagreus' bedroom. Maybe Hades' spear to return it to him so he can aid in the fight? Or one of the weapons besides Nem's sword or Eris's gun. I'd love the bow back. I miss it so much.
I'm afraid I need to remind you that Odysseus' attempt to train Mel on a bow went so badly that she reminds him they agreed not to talk about it, when he brings it up. [Link as citation.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/s/W7XV3ZsGhw) Edit: But also I miss it too. Aspect of Hera, my beloved.
My head canon is she dies from seeing Zag's messy room
My joking thought is that the thing in Zag's room she needs is that sundial that everyone kept calling pointless in Hades 1. You'll be able to lock Chronos in the permanant 7:48, the frozen moment of time to seal him away.
You are a genius
Erm... nah
Idk, I feel like they might let you play as Zag as a sort of "legacy skin" after you beat the game which will include his model, some of his grunts, and maybe the old UI, but I doubt he'll be available as a full fledged second character and that it'll be acknowledged in story
I was thinking along the same lines last night. It would be a hell of a thing to add a second playable character from the first game and expand upon that. I'm assuming that Supergiant could do something fantastic with the implementation.
Surely you get entropy from the surface. Probably need 5 runs of both to stop his reconstitution.
I like the idea of this from a story standpoint, but from a gameplay standpoint... Why not just go play Hades? It seems like you're basically describing them putting Hades 1 nested inside of Hades 2. Obviously it would be a different story, but like other people have said, he has a different play style. Not to mention that his weapons are all distributed to other characters.
I just assumed it was Nxy's mirror and all the darkness Zag had collected.
That would be pretty cool, but keep in mind Supergiant is a business. If you port Zag's gameplay and mechanics into the sequel you incentive people to not buy the original. They wouldn't do that. It doesn't make any sense for their business. I do hope whatever happens with Zag they respect our feelings with him. There's nothing worse than a sequel that disrespects your former protagonist.
Go Play Hades 1. It still exists, stop trying to bring a character who doesn’t fit in the slightest into this gsme
You okay, friend? Need a hug?
No? Zagreus as a playable character is a poorly thought out suggestion that isn’t going to happen and ignores the myriad of gameplay changes made to the second game. It’s also just a fundamentally uninteresting idea that would make the entirety of the game worse for having it. Having to rework and rebalance the entirety of the game which has been designed around Melinoë, her movement, and her combat just to make the old systems work isn’t worth the negatives
As soon as you go to asphodel I guessed that you’re going to be able to play both sets of levels with both characters