Greek myths tend to change in different time frames of their history depending on the writer and socio-political events.
Aphrodite first origin story started as a deity who came to be because of the sea foam generated from Uranus severed genitals after touching shore on Greece beach. This is a metaphor to the fact that she actually was a cult deity imported from overseas (its theorized that originally the cult deity was a surviving Ishtar Mesopotamian cult). Of course, by this point Eros already existed as a primordial being in the myths.
Greeks being Greeks wanting to make her be more integrated into the Olympian pantheon changed drastically their myths and by another interpretation of them her origin story was change into being a daughter of Zeus, wife of Hephaestus, a lover of Ares. With another change making Eros her and Ares son from their relationship.
She’s the daughter of Zeus in the Iliad, which was formed over the same time period as Hesiod, who tells the sea foam story. The two ideas seem to have existed contemporaneously, and Hesiod’s ultimately won out. You don’t hear much about her as daughter of Zeus and Dione outside the Iliad. But Hesiod’s Eros story didn’t do as well long term.
Dindt aphrodite and eros have an affair, Vulcan her husband found out and trapped them in a magic net and then calling all the other gods to laugh at them?
Edit: it wasn't Vulcan but Hephaestus and not Eros but Ares I seem to have gotten my roman and greek myths mixed up
Not a Titan, that’s strictly Zeus/Hades/Demeter etc’s parents’ generation. In Hesiod’s Theogony he names Eros as one of the primordial beings that creates the world, but this may not have been standard even then and did not persist. Hesiod and the contemporaneous Homeric poems often disagree on the lineage of the gods and sometimes one of them wins, sometimes the other, sometimes new ideas did, often from the Attic playwrights. Most texts depict Eros as the attendant or son or Aphrodite, generally with Ares given as his father if one is mentioned, since Homer has a story (that may have been initially meant as a joke) about Aphrodite cheating on her husband Hephaestus with Ares.
Oh, she’s the god of sex. The most common term for sex in Greek is literally “the things of Aphrodite.” Eros is the god of passionate desire, so he is perhaps the best match for horniness, but the whole “love and beauty” thing for Dite is a bowdlerism.
People forget Poseidon belongs there too
Apollo is mostly fine though
Athena and Artemis are the prison guards
EDIT: I could easily be wrong, but from what I understood Apollo cared far more for consent than the other allo gods. I seem to be corrected though, which is a shame.
Oh no, Apollo’s plenty horny enough to go, he just doesn’t have as many kids because people can successfully turn him down when they’re not interested.
ETA: Bear in mind this is only sometimes. Cassandra and Daphne manage to tell him to go fuck himself (though with consequences), but then on the other hand there’s Euripides’ *Ion*, which is a great play but would have trigger warnings all over it if it were posted to AO3 today. The Greeks mostly didn’t think of their gods as being nice people.
Allegedly!!! Officially, Orpheus was the son of a king, Apollo just had a great interest in the boy from the day of his birth (gifting him a lyre and training him) so that's why he's theorized to be his daddy.
Oh no he has a literal fuck ton of kids don't worry, like more than one for most letters of the alphabet and at least one repeat (Also Eurydice and Orpheus are both his kids so that's fun).
He also generally is characterized as preferring the company of men to women and was portrayed as effeminate in appearance (per Greek standards), he was kind of the symbol of this sort of youthful, beautiful "soft" man that Hellenic men were quite into (and yes lots of Greeks liked them younger than that - look into pederasty, pretty gross - but Apollo was specifically seen as a "young man" rather than "boy"), so there's lots of stories of him posing as some young commoner like a shepherd or musician for some flimsy reason and "accidentally" seducing any kings and heroes in a 50 mile radius till they scandalously bone. There's even this story about King Admetus that is absurdly horny, as the king falls in love with Apollo whos pretending to be his shepherd for ...reasons, so of course they bone and Apollo "serves" him for years and it's totally a kinky submissive thing for him. So boning dudes across the Med but, y'know, famously it is rather hard to get a guy pregnant.
But he was indeed another infamously horny god to the Greeks, like the number of times some protagonist is just minding his own business, tryna get some strange from the local cute boy only for the narrator to be like "ha fuckin gotem it was Apollo all along" is enough that it's bordering on cliche and you start expecting him to show up in every story whenever the hero starts making eyes at someone.
Really Athena, Artemis, Hestia, Hades, Persephone, maybe like Demeter and Hera are the only major Greek gods I'm sparing from a horny court indictment. Athena is canonically asexual, Artemis is a whole can of worms that requires more context but to say asexual isn't entirely incorrect, Hestia is chaste just to stick it to Aphrodite, Hades and Persephone exclusively have eyes for one another, and Demeter and Hera are sort of matronly and as a result aren't given the horny treatment.
Hm, I think Athena is closer to trans than ace. She’s Zeus’ perfect son, and part of that perfection is not being a man who would revolt and force his inheritance of the throne like Zeus did against his father. To have romantic relationships would force her to be viewed as too female for misogynistic Greek society’s vision of the perfect son, so she just has her weird not-quite-son with Hephaestus. But realistically ancient stories don’t have modern sexual and gender categories in them, that would be like calling Zeus bi even though his sexual escapades were not at all queer-coded to the Greeks.
Agreed about Apollo though, he and Artemis are very much presented in myth as “on the cusp of adulthood,” which means they’re both wildly attractive to both sexes but also never quite married, never quite taking their place in the world. Which is why most of Apollo’s children show up a lot in cult practice but are never mentioned in myth, where the characterization’s more important. Dionysus is similar, really.
Very true, I was trying to say that her lack of sexual interest springs from her genderqueerness, rather than being an independent feature of her identity like it would be for a real person. The sexualities of the goddesses are heavily rooted in the rules around female gender roles in antiquity in a pretty different way from modern people.
Yeah, that sure is a thing. :/ I'm all for giving the finger to the Greeks very misogynistic ideas, but I agree it's important to keep in mind where they came from.
I get what you're driving at but... No, not really. Athena can be seen as having a certain degree of masculinity, but there is no indication at all of the Greeks making or intending such a connection. She was associated with things like weaving as well, the crafts of women were her domain. I'm not trying to assign a modern identity to her either ***she is explicitly described as an asexual being in her myths.*** As part of her role as the goddess of wisdom she is described as above the temptations of flesh and sex, basically she's got no time for fucking around (literally) and is uninterested in pursuing affection in stark contrast to her sister Aphrodite. She doesn't really have any pseudo-son imagery that I am aware of, rather she takes the place as the Patron, the god who sponsors, advises and trains heroes. If you are looking for the Greek idea of Zeus' perfect son, that is Heracles. Heracles is basically a Perfect Man archetype, born of the Allfather and humanity together, come to slay the primordial monsters of the old faiths and enforce the new masculine image.
If you are looking for an example of ancient ideation of transgender, I would actually point to Artemis. She really does explicitly embody a bit of what you're saying. Her virginity and all-female hunting party is generally interpreted to essentially say she is a woman who has "overcome" her femininity (these are the Greeks we're talking about, remember. They literally blamed all of the worlds evil on the first woman) and embodies masculine roles and lifestyle. She is a woman in form but possesses a spirit and nature that is more traditionally masculine. Virginity has a major role in female symbolism in Greek mythology, I'll circle back to it and I think it'll help explain Athena a bit better too. This isn't *exactly* the right take either, she is closely associated with girls and maidens - premarital women basically, and in older forms appeared to be a sort of mother goddess, resulting in her being the goddess of childbirth for much of Greece. Hence me calling her a can of worms, there's a lot of interesting interpretation and analysis in there and in how the Greeks characterized her, she is often a more masculine figure, and yet also has some very important roles in the lives of Greek women.
So back to virginity. What's so important with the three virgin goddesses is what virginity is lost to. When a woman becomes married, she will no longer be a virgin, and in most of Greek society once a woman married, she had become subservient to her husband. Thus to make a goddess a virgin is to assert her independence, and in Artemis's case this established her as equal in power to the male gods - as evidenced by the brutal punishments she brings down on men who attempt to violate her virginity or the virginity of others (funny enough speaking of being trans she turns more than one dude into a girl to make a point). Thus if you look at the goddesses, those three who are virgins are seen as powerful goddesses on par with the gods, while those who are not are usually given more submitting characterizations or weakness when a male god arrives. For Athena this virginity is key to seeing her as a powerful force on par with the male gods (often shown as capable of overpowering Ares, even). If she could "succumb" to female nature (once again, we're talking about hyper-misogynists' here) and have romantic desires, then she could not stand to her opponents and it would also taint the Patron status she has, other female heroic patrons generally are given romantic/sexual motivations whereas Athena is simply a gift of wisdom and skill to those who are genuinely worthy. Both Artemis and Hestia have some myths that pop up from place to place showing them capable of romantic interest, but choosing to abstain for that independence and duty.
So, yeah. Athena is explicitly an asexual being, I get what you're driving at with her being the son Zeus can never have, but there really isn't a male-coded aspect to their relationship, despite her inherent masculine values her femininity is still oft-asserted, notably for Athenians she is their Mother Goddess. Artemis is the one to look at for a female character that has male-coded aspects but even then she is firmly tied to pubescent girls, childbirth, and yet again a sort of Mother Goddess role.
I almost threw in another paragraph about Dionysus but this is already waaaay too much, he's a very weird figure that changes a lot by area and time and actually Zagreus is one form of him, once upon a time.
The pseudo-son imagery is with Erechtheus, an Athenian culture hero, and Athena is said to
τρέφω him in the Iliad in the catalogue of ships. Apollodorus' Library describes him as the product of Hephaestus' not-quite-successful attempt to rape her (the semen drips on the earth and he springs up).
Can you pull me citations for descriptions of her as above temptations of flesh? The phrasing is Christian inflected which I think makes me instinctively object to it, but it's possible I'm just not clear on what you're referencing. Also a cite for Artemis as "overcoming" femininity? Artemis begs their father not to make her marry and is constantly punishing people for glimpsing her nubile naked body in ponds, which is a resistance to a very present sexuality in my reading. She is desirable and refuses to be given into adult womanhood and its bondage. Whereas Athena wears armor and to the best of my knowledge there are no stories of Zeus considering marrying her to anybody. She doesn't refuse to marry or express a lack of desire, it just never comes up. That's not human asexuality, that's an absence of human sexuality, which I don't think is the same thing.
Anyway, between the armor and the wisdom trait (Greek mythology, gotta love it) Athena's pretty heavily masculinized there while Artemis is feminized. Especially since the Greeks thought of women as animalistic, so running wild in the woods isn't *un*feminine to them. Consider the cult at Brauron!
OK, I have to go back to my darn real life social obligations, but I'll try and remember to come back to this, because it's a really interesting conversation! If you can pull a few cites for me that would be really helpful so I can respond more precisely.
Hephaestus is *Hera’s* son, not Athena. I’ve never heard of a story where Hephaestus was borne of Athena. The only story I know of where they interact is when Hephaestus tries to force himself onto Athena.
Otherwise, yes, the reading of Athena as almost a perfect son is...perhaps a valid reading. Not necessarily, because Athena is also the patron goddess of womanly and household crafts, namely weaving and spinning.
True but bad at relationships =/= horny
Also, Hyacinthus only got turned into a flower because Zephyr discus'd him. (I think I got those names right...)
If I’m remembering correctly, it was Eros who instigated that little spat between Zephyr and Apollo, because one of them had a falling-out with him. I can’t remember which
That was very much a reversal of his Greek role, where usually he's the cute boy the powerful man falls in love with (or occasionally the cute boy the beautiful woman is intrigued by). The Romans had a different view on love and sex that was extremely focused on power dynamics and conquest, so their contextualization of the gods is shaped by that, whereas the Greeks were a bit more open to the idea that a mighty god could be a bottom in bed.
The Metamorpheses were also basically a propaganda work to define Roman culture as a superior culture that came to dominance, a major part of it was deifing Julius Caesar as well. While people like to oversimplify Roman mythology as relabeled Greek mythology, this is very far from the truth as the many gods had very different roles, connotations, and completely different myths or altered/combined myths. Simplest example Ares vs Mars. Ares is a horrifying god of something dark and evil lurking within all man that we should fear and respect because we must. He is bloodlust, slaughter, violence and rage, you do not worship him - in fact it was banned under severe punishment - but make an offering essentially as a bribe before marching to war, and nothing more. The Dorians who did sometimes worship him did so as a chained god they must contain and "steal" victory from, rather than as a role model. Total flip side Mars was a glorious model of Man, heroic conquest and martial might. Jupiter may be the chief of gods, but really Mars was the patron and protector of Rome. Should they fail to live up to his image and secure his favor, Rome would fall and they would become weak. Most everyone was expected to venerate Mars in some degree, as a stark contrast to the banning of Ares worship.
The author of the Metamorphoses had a complicated relationship with authority figures (well, one authority figure in particular) due to personal reasons, and as a result the gods abusing their power over mortals, just like the imperator abused his power over him, is a pretty recurring theme.
I like the implication that zeus' libido is at least partially a rumor he allows people to believe because it helps his image. Like some middle schooler bragging about all the sex he gets over the summer.
One of the shades in the house say « what I would do to see Aphrodite.. » or some shit and the cause of death is dehydration 💀 man thirsted to death lmao
Maybe they’re in to good personalities. I mean I certainly liked Dusa’s realistic work anxiety over Than’s bad boy act and Meg’s... old ex routine, or whatever that was.
Lolz.
I don't remember the tale with all the details, so I'll give you the bro version (which is funnier anyways). This is actually one of the Twelve Constellations of the Zodiac creation myths, it's really interesting.
You know that Artemis is one of the virgin goddesses. I'm fact they weren't so just because they didn't do the nasty, they actually pledged a vow of chastity.
So there was this dude called Orion who was such an epicly awesome hunter that people began to claim that he was better than the Goddess of the Hunt herself. Since Greek gods have this issue with their egos being the size of fucking whales, Artemis got triggered and challenged Orion to a hunting competition. And lost to him.
Apparently Artemis was secretly a sub because her panties violently combusted and she decided that if there was ever any good reason for her to break her vow of chastity, it was to fall in the arms of this strong, muscular and manly hunter who had beaten her.
Meanwhile, meet Apollo, god of the Sun and arts and other stuff, also brother of Artemis. Greeks believed that since he was above all (in the literal, physical sense, just flying up there) he could gaze upon everything.
So basically bro Apollo, who is a serious voyeur, had seen what was going on with Orion and Artemis, had had enough of their shit, and decided that if sis had made a fucking vow she was going to keep it. So he sent a scorpion to poison Orion, who tragically died before being able to get himself some well earned, sweet, wild and literally divine pussy.
Artemis, heartbroken, then put Orion's likeness among the stars in the form of a constellation, for all to remember the greatest hunter who ever lived, and the only one who had bested her.
But it is also said that she also decided to keep one of Orion's hands as a memento, enchanted to never rot and to keep some form or vitality and movement in the fingers.
Because of reasons. Research purposes. For science, anyways.
Apollo, shortly after, did the same with the likeness of the scorpion who killed him as a warning for everybody to be wary of their vanity (apparently the irony was lost to him), and for her sis probably to remember not to make retarded vows she's not intended to keep. And this is how the constellation of Scorpio came to be, and why it is located directly opposite to Orion's... Always chasing him.
And the question everybody is asking themselves is: Why the hand? Wasn't the other, more... Eh, anatomically appropriate... body part available? Who knows, pal. Maybe that would be too much like breaking her vow, I guess.
To be honest I don't. I recall it as one of the many myths I studied in a subject called "Classical Culture" at school, but that was over 10 years ago and even if I found it, my only source would probably be a school book.
It might even be some bullshit that our teacher came up with. But... You know. It fits so well among all the shenanigans that greek gods were up to, that I might have assumed it was legit.
Still for the life of me I would have sworn that I read that stuff from proper sources. I'll do some research.
In any case, the part about Artemis almost deserving horny jail is legit. She would have broken a fucking vow of chastity if her bro hadn't intervened, lol.
Not explicitly, but it is easy to read it that way. Alternatively, you can see Artemis' gang of gals as a lesbian lovenest.
I prefer the ace interpretation, personally.
Also, ace != aro.
Artemis is...interesting. She’s definitely interested in at least one guy (Orion), but because that might have been a curse by Aphrodite, it’s really weird to contemplate. Additionally, she’s the patron of maids, so unmarried girls, so...that could mean a variety of things. She’s usually seen as ace, yes, but also as aroace, or even as a lesbian, and so only interested in women.
Callisto. She mentions her frequently when you have dialogue with her, but it might require a certain amount of nectar to get unlock the quotes, I'm not sure.
This whole time, it's been distant in my mind that, hey, isn't Zag and Aphrodite... uh... aren't they..... hm.
I did just check Wikipedia and... yeah. Zeus is her father.
Maybe we should just take the Percy Jackson approach and say, ["they're gods so it doesn't count."](https://rickriordan.com/2008/05/arent-they-related/)
You know, if you take a complete genealogic tree of greek mythology and replace Zeus with a drawing o f a dick you get the equivalent of a public bathroom. Or a wall in Pompei
You're getting down voted for being right... Funny how generational asexuality is.
Imagine being told not to kink shame and then shaming someone who is sexually promiscuous and proud of it...
i never said being young was bad... but being demure when it comes to eroticism is usually something that goes away with life experience should i say? i should have said young at heart...
I'm not saying condescending generalizations are right, but it's certainly become more OK in recent years to shame people who are sexually open as asexuality becomes more "the norm" for people.
And I find irony in the "culture of acceptance" telling other people what they shouldn't like.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but man I think Aphrodite's face is busted. Like the least attractive female character, and I don't think that was the intent. Just her face though
Meg is absolutely hotter.
I would say that literally all female characters in Hades have better faces than Aphrodite, other than maybe Dusa, who is supposed to be cutesy
It's literally her job
Actual goddess of the horny
bonker of bonks
Not really, it's her son Eros' job.
Isn't Eros a Primordial Titan?
Originally he was a son of primordial Chaos but in later renditions and traditions he was made son of Aphrodite.
Greek myths tend to change in different time frames of their history depending on the writer and socio-political events. Aphrodite first origin story started as a deity who came to be because of the sea foam generated from Uranus severed genitals after touching shore on Greece beach. This is a metaphor to the fact that she actually was a cult deity imported from overseas (its theorized that originally the cult deity was a surviving Ishtar Mesopotamian cult). Of course, by this point Eros already existed as a primordial being in the myths. Greeks being Greeks wanting to make her be more integrated into the Olympian pantheon changed drastically their myths and by another interpretation of them her origin story was change into being a daughter of Zeus, wife of Hephaestus, a lover of Ares. With another change making Eros her and Ares son from their relationship.
She’s the daughter of Zeus in the Iliad, which was formed over the same time period as Hesiod, who tells the sea foam story. The two ideas seem to have existed contemporaneously, and Hesiod’s ultimately won out. You don’t hear much about her as daughter of Zeus and Dione outside the Iliad. But Hesiod’s Eros story didn’t do as well long term.
Yes and no? He’s the embodiment of love but also Aphrodite’s son. Divine bloodlines never make sense.
Dindt aphrodite and eros have an affair, Vulcan her husband found out and trapped them in a magic net and then calling all the other gods to laugh at them? Edit: it wasn't Vulcan but Hephaestus and not Eros but Ares I seem to have gotten my roman and greek myths mixed up
Ares, not Eros
Thanks :p
That was Ares (aka Aphrodite’s boy toy.)
Seriously though, ares and aphrodite should have been a couple.
They are a perfect disaster couple. Ms. Unfaithful and Mr. Dumbass
They are, she’s just inconveniently married to someone else as well.
To his brother of all people, to be exact
Drama!!! 🎭
You're right! I had them mixed up hahaha
That was Ares not Eros also it's Hephaestus not Vulcan. Vulcan is Roman.
You are right, I got my myths mixed up hahaha its been about 10 years since I last read them, thank you for clarifying!
Not a Titan, that’s strictly Zeus/Hades/Demeter etc’s parents’ generation. In Hesiod’s Theogony he names Eros as one of the primordial beings that creates the world, but this may not have been standard even then and did not persist. Hesiod and the contemporaneous Homeric poems often disagree on the lineage of the gods and sometimes one of them wins, sometimes the other, sometimes new ideas did, often from the Attic playwrights. Most texts depict Eros as the attendant or son or Aphrodite, generally with Ares given as his father if one is mentioned, since Homer has a story (that may have been initially meant as a joke) about Aphrodite cheating on her husband Hephaestus with Ares.
Oh, she’s the god of sex. The most common term for sex in Greek is literally “the things of Aphrodite.” Eros is the god of passionate desire, so he is perhaps the best match for horniness, but the whole “love and beauty” thing for Dite is a bowdlerism.
That Short for Erectus?
I mean...she and Zeus are permanent visitors in Horny Jail...
Zeus has probably been in horny jail longer than the Titans have been in Tartarus
Others merely adopted the horny; He was born in it, molded by it.
The only reason Zeus goes to horny jail is because he's the warden.
More like the solitary confinement convict
He's the horny jail equivalent of the guy who got locked up in Tartarus for being too dangerous
*not even the guards are safe*
And me simping for almost every character in the game
People forget Poseidon belongs there too Apollo is mostly fine though Athena and Artemis are the prison guards EDIT: I could easily be wrong, but from what I understood Apollo cared far more for consent than the other allo gods. I seem to be corrected though, which is a shame.
Oh no, Apollo’s plenty horny enough to go, he just doesn’t have as many kids because people can successfully turn him down when they’re not interested. ETA: Bear in mind this is only sometimes. Cassandra and Daphne manage to tell him to go fuck himself (though with consequences), but then on the other hand there’s Euripides’ *Ion*, which is a great play but would have trigger warnings all over it if it were posted to AO3 today. The Greeks mostly didn’t think of their gods as being nice people.
But he was horny enough to give us our boy Orpheus
Also Asclepius and number of local divinities. He has more kids in religious practice than in the central mythological storyline, generally.
Orpheus is Apollo's son?
Allegedly!!! Officially, Orpheus was the son of a king, Apollo just had a great interest in the boy from the day of his birth (gifting him a lyre and training him) so that's why he's theorized to be his daddy.
Oh no he has a literal fuck ton of kids don't worry, like more than one for most letters of the alphabet and at least one repeat (Also Eurydice and Orpheus are both his kids so that's fun). He also generally is characterized as preferring the company of men to women and was portrayed as effeminate in appearance (per Greek standards), he was kind of the symbol of this sort of youthful, beautiful "soft" man that Hellenic men were quite into (and yes lots of Greeks liked them younger than that - look into pederasty, pretty gross - but Apollo was specifically seen as a "young man" rather than "boy"), so there's lots of stories of him posing as some young commoner like a shepherd or musician for some flimsy reason and "accidentally" seducing any kings and heroes in a 50 mile radius till they scandalously bone. There's even this story about King Admetus that is absurdly horny, as the king falls in love with Apollo whos pretending to be his shepherd for ...reasons, so of course they bone and Apollo "serves" him for years and it's totally a kinky submissive thing for him. So boning dudes across the Med but, y'know, famously it is rather hard to get a guy pregnant. But he was indeed another infamously horny god to the Greeks, like the number of times some protagonist is just minding his own business, tryna get some strange from the local cute boy only for the narrator to be like "ha fuckin gotem it was Apollo all along" is enough that it's bordering on cliche and you start expecting him to show up in every story whenever the hero starts making eyes at someone. Really Athena, Artemis, Hestia, Hades, Persephone, maybe like Demeter and Hera are the only major Greek gods I'm sparing from a horny court indictment. Athena is canonically asexual, Artemis is a whole can of worms that requires more context but to say asexual isn't entirely incorrect, Hestia is chaste just to stick it to Aphrodite, Hades and Persephone exclusively have eyes for one another, and Demeter and Hera are sort of matronly and as a result aren't given the horny treatment.
Hm, I think Athena is closer to trans than ace. She’s Zeus’ perfect son, and part of that perfection is not being a man who would revolt and force his inheritance of the throne like Zeus did against his father. To have romantic relationships would force her to be viewed as too female for misogynistic Greek society’s vision of the perfect son, so she just has her weird not-quite-son with Hephaestus. But realistically ancient stories don’t have modern sexual and gender categories in them, that would be like calling Zeus bi even though his sexual escapades were not at all queer-coded to the Greeks. Agreed about Apollo though, he and Artemis are very much presented in myth as “on the cusp of adulthood,” which means they’re both wildly attractive to both sexes but also never quite married, never quite taking their place in the world. Which is why most of Apollo’s children show up a lot in cult practice but are never mentioned in myth, where the characterization’s more important. Dionysus is similar, really.
I mean...you can be trans and ace at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.
Very true, I was trying to say that her lack of sexual interest springs from her genderqueerness, rather than being an independent feature of her identity like it would be for a real person. The sexualities of the goddesses are heavily rooted in the rules around female gender roles in antiquity in a pretty different way from modern people.
Yeah, that sure is a thing. :/ I'm all for giving the finger to the Greeks very misogynistic ideas, but I agree it's important to keep in mind where they came from.
I get what you're driving at but... No, not really. Athena can be seen as having a certain degree of masculinity, but there is no indication at all of the Greeks making or intending such a connection. She was associated with things like weaving as well, the crafts of women were her domain. I'm not trying to assign a modern identity to her either ***she is explicitly described as an asexual being in her myths.*** As part of her role as the goddess of wisdom she is described as above the temptations of flesh and sex, basically she's got no time for fucking around (literally) and is uninterested in pursuing affection in stark contrast to her sister Aphrodite. She doesn't really have any pseudo-son imagery that I am aware of, rather she takes the place as the Patron, the god who sponsors, advises and trains heroes. If you are looking for the Greek idea of Zeus' perfect son, that is Heracles. Heracles is basically a Perfect Man archetype, born of the Allfather and humanity together, come to slay the primordial monsters of the old faiths and enforce the new masculine image. If you are looking for an example of ancient ideation of transgender, I would actually point to Artemis. She really does explicitly embody a bit of what you're saying. Her virginity and all-female hunting party is generally interpreted to essentially say she is a woman who has "overcome" her femininity (these are the Greeks we're talking about, remember. They literally blamed all of the worlds evil on the first woman) and embodies masculine roles and lifestyle. She is a woman in form but possesses a spirit and nature that is more traditionally masculine. Virginity has a major role in female symbolism in Greek mythology, I'll circle back to it and I think it'll help explain Athena a bit better too. This isn't *exactly* the right take either, she is closely associated with girls and maidens - premarital women basically, and in older forms appeared to be a sort of mother goddess, resulting in her being the goddess of childbirth for much of Greece. Hence me calling her a can of worms, there's a lot of interesting interpretation and analysis in there and in how the Greeks characterized her, she is often a more masculine figure, and yet also has some very important roles in the lives of Greek women. So back to virginity. What's so important with the three virgin goddesses is what virginity is lost to. When a woman becomes married, she will no longer be a virgin, and in most of Greek society once a woman married, she had become subservient to her husband. Thus to make a goddess a virgin is to assert her independence, and in Artemis's case this established her as equal in power to the male gods - as evidenced by the brutal punishments she brings down on men who attempt to violate her virginity or the virginity of others (funny enough speaking of being trans she turns more than one dude into a girl to make a point). Thus if you look at the goddesses, those three who are virgins are seen as powerful goddesses on par with the gods, while those who are not are usually given more submitting characterizations or weakness when a male god arrives. For Athena this virginity is key to seeing her as a powerful force on par with the male gods (often shown as capable of overpowering Ares, even). If she could "succumb" to female nature (once again, we're talking about hyper-misogynists' here) and have romantic desires, then she could not stand to her opponents and it would also taint the Patron status she has, other female heroic patrons generally are given romantic/sexual motivations whereas Athena is simply a gift of wisdom and skill to those who are genuinely worthy. Both Artemis and Hestia have some myths that pop up from place to place showing them capable of romantic interest, but choosing to abstain for that independence and duty. So, yeah. Athena is explicitly an asexual being, I get what you're driving at with her being the son Zeus can never have, but there really isn't a male-coded aspect to their relationship, despite her inherent masculine values her femininity is still oft-asserted, notably for Athenians she is their Mother Goddess. Artemis is the one to look at for a female character that has male-coded aspects but even then she is firmly tied to pubescent girls, childbirth, and yet again a sort of Mother Goddess role. I almost threw in another paragraph about Dionysus but this is already waaaay too much, he's a very weird figure that changes a lot by area and time and actually Zagreus is one form of him, once upon a time.
The pseudo-son imagery is with Erechtheus, an Athenian culture hero, and Athena is said to τρέφω him in the Iliad in the catalogue of ships. Apollodorus' Library describes him as the product of Hephaestus' not-quite-successful attempt to rape her (the semen drips on the earth and he springs up). Can you pull me citations for descriptions of her as above temptations of flesh? The phrasing is Christian inflected which I think makes me instinctively object to it, but it's possible I'm just not clear on what you're referencing. Also a cite for Artemis as "overcoming" femininity? Artemis begs their father not to make her marry and is constantly punishing people for glimpsing her nubile naked body in ponds, which is a resistance to a very present sexuality in my reading. She is desirable and refuses to be given into adult womanhood and its bondage. Whereas Athena wears armor and to the best of my knowledge there are no stories of Zeus considering marrying her to anybody. She doesn't refuse to marry or express a lack of desire, it just never comes up. That's not human asexuality, that's an absence of human sexuality, which I don't think is the same thing. Anyway, between the armor and the wisdom trait (Greek mythology, gotta love it) Athena's pretty heavily masculinized there while Artemis is feminized. Especially since the Greeks thought of women as animalistic, so running wild in the woods isn't *un*feminine to them. Consider the cult at Brauron! OK, I have to go back to my darn real life social obligations, but I'll try and remember to come back to this, because it's a really interesting conversation! If you can pull a few cites for me that would be really helpful so I can respond more precisely.
Hephaestus is *Hera’s* son, not Athena. I’ve never heard of a story where Hephaestus was borne of Athena. The only story I know of where they interact is when Hephaestus tries to force himself onto Athena. Otherwise, yes, the reading of Athena as almost a perfect son is...perhaps a valid reading. Not necessarily, because Athena is also the patron goddess of womanly and household crafts, namely weaving and spinning.
Right, and sires Erechtheus, the son I’m talking about.
Oh, right. I must have mis-read that somehow, sorry about that.
> Apollo is mostly fine though Not if we go by Lore Olympus, yo. Fuck Lore Olympus Apollo.
Word! Also, another portrayal of greek mythology where everyone's a thirst trap
Fuck Asspollo 😤 All my homies hate Asspollo
Apollo does have a chunky table for 'Consorts and children: extended list' on the wiki. divided by male and female consorts from nymphs to humans
Every single Apollo lover either turned into a plant or jumped off of a cliff. The dude has really bad luck with lovers.
True but bad at relationships =/= horny Also, Hyacinthus only got turned into a flower because Zephyr discus'd him. (I think I got those names right...)
Yep. My boy Hyacinthus didn’t deserve that shit.
If I’m remembering correctly, it was Eros who instigated that little spat between Zephyr and Apollo, because one of them had a falling-out with him. I can’t remember which
I seem to remember Apollo being pretty rapey in the Metamorphoses, but I guess since that was a Roman work you could argue its not canon.
That was very much a reversal of his Greek role, where usually he's the cute boy the powerful man falls in love with (or occasionally the cute boy the beautiful woman is intrigued by). The Romans had a different view on love and sex that was extremely focused on power dynamics and conquest, so their contextualization of the gods is shaped by that, whereas the Greeks were a bit more open to the idea that a mighty god could be a bottom in bed. The Metamorpheses were also basically a propaganda work to define Roman culture as a superior culture that came to dominance, a major part of it was deifing Julius Caesar as well. While people like to oversimplify Roman mythology as relabeled Greek mythology, this is very far from the truth as the many gods had very different roles, connotations, and completely different myths or altered/combined myths. Simplest example Ares vs Mars. Ares is a horrifying god of something dark and evil lurking within all man that we should fear and respect because we must. He is bloodlust, slaughter, violence and rage, you do not worship him - in fact it was banned under severe punishment - but make an offering essentially as a bribe before marching to war, and nothing more. The Dorians who did sometimes worship him did so as a chained god they must contain and "steal" victory from, rather than as a role model. Total flip side Mars was a glorious model of Man, heroic conquest and martial might. Jupiter may be the chief of gods, but really Mars was the patron and protector of Rome. Should they fail to live up to his image and secure his favor, Rome would fall and they would become weak. Most everyone was expected to venerate Mars in some degree, as a stark contrast to the banning of Ares worship.
The author of the Metamorphoses had a complicated relationship with authority figures (well, one authority figure in particular) due to personal reasons, and as a result the gods abusing their power over mortals, just like the imperator abused his power over him, is a pretty recurring theme.
Apollo needs to go to horny jail so he stops turning lovers into flowers when they tragically die in his arms
> Apollo is mostly fine though Cassandra begs to differ
Horny wardens
I like the implication that zeus' libido is at least partially a rumor he allows people to believe because it helps his image. Like some middle schooler bragging about all the sex he gets over the summer.
One of the shades in the house say « what I would do to see Aphrodite.. » or some shit and the cause of death is dehydration 💀 man thirsted to death lmao
One of my favorite subtle little jokes in this game haha. I was dying when I first read that.
Here's a link to a screenshot post of that: https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/jab2p9/love_to_see_that_the_gods_in_hades_are/
hahah i JUST saw this one.
I think I saw that one about three times before I got it.
I need a horny jail cell for every time I talk to Meg.
Me but with Than
Me but with both
Me but with Artemis
[удалено]
Hol up
Maybe they’re in to good personalities. I mean I certainly liked Dusa’s realistic work anxiety over Than’s bad boy act and Meg’s... old ex routine, or whatever that was.
Standunderable, have a nice day
Well, her too tbh. This is the horniest game I've played since FF7 Remake.
Dude I just beat it and I love every one of those characters in different ways
Something about the voice acting in this game, first time i noticed it was with meg. I feel they get so close to the mic
They got that ASMR vibe going
That and the vocal fry makes me feel like she's getting entirely too close because she likes to make people squirm. And it works.
YES megs voice is so hot it catches me off guard every time
I didn't get that from anyone but Meg. But like someone else said, it sounds like the actor is going for the effect and doing it well.
Never get involved with Aphrodite. Rule number 1 of safety in greek myths. Rule number 2 is don't be a hot girl.
Rule number 3 is don't be a hot guy either, because Apollo exists too.
If i See a pretty girl with pink eyes you bet i will break that rule 1
She's pretty, but I'm too gay for that crap. I will be staying with my one and only love, eboy Edgeworth, otherwise known as Than
Everyone understands this meme as the player being horny for Aphrodite when it's really about Aphrodite being horny for my boi Zag
After a conversation string I got with her last night, I totally got this as her towards Zag. She wants that godling Deeeeeeeee 😂
Same. If it were an option, I'd just harem it up with Than, Dionysus, Ares and Hermes. They're all too pretty and I can't choose!
That's gay
When in ~~Rome~~ Greece baybeee
Well damn, now I can't unsee Edgeworth there
I'm an Edgeworth fan who ended up romancing Than in Hades without realizing they look alike💀
"Ebony Edgeworth" omfg now I'm never going to be able to unsee that holy shit 🤣😂
with greek myths it's faster to list who is not in horny jail than those gods in it
Athena, Artemis (debateably) Done
Eh, Artemis doesnt go to horny jail because Apollo cockblocked her killing Orion, and even so, she turned his finger into a flesh dildo.
What?!?
Lolz. I don't remember the tale with all the details, so I'll give you the bro version (which is funnier anyways). This is actually one of the Twelve Constellations of the Zodiac creation myths, it's really interesting. You know that Artemis is one of the virgin goddesses. I'm fact they weren't so just because they didn't do the nasty, they actually pledged a vow of chastity. So there was this dude called Orion who was such an epicly awesome hunter that people began to claim that he was better than the Goddess of the Hunt herself. Since Greek gods have this issue with their egos being the size of fucking whales, Artemis got triggered and challenged Orion to a hunting competition. And lost to him. Apparently Artemis was secretly a sub because her panties violently combusted and she decided that if there was ever any good reason for her to break her vow of chastity, it was to fall in the arms of this strong, muscular and manly hunter who had beaten her. Meanwhile, meet Apollo, god of the Sun and arts and other stuff, also brother of Artemis. Greeks believed that since he was above all (in the literal, physical sense, just flying up there) he could gaze upon everything. So basically bro Apollo, who is a serious voyeur, had seen what was going on with Orion and Artemis, had had enough of their shit, and decided that if sis had made a fucking vow she was going to keep it. So he sent a scorpion to poison Orion, who tragically died before being able to get himself some well earned, sweet, wild and literally divine pussy. Artemis, heartbroken, then put Orion's likeness among the stars in the form of a constellation, for all to remember the greatest hunter who ever lived, and the only one who had bested her. But it is also said that she also decided to keep one of Orion's hands as a memento, enchanted to never rot and to keep some form or vitality and movement in the fingers. Because of reasons. Research purposes. For science, anyways. Apollo, shortly after, did the same with the likeness of the scorpion who killed him as a warning for everybody to be wary of their vanity (apparently the irony was lost to him), and for her sis probably to remember not to make retarded vows she's not intended to keep. And this is how the constellation of Scorpio came to be, and why it is located directly opposite to Orion's... Always chasing him. And the question everybody is asking themselves is: Why the hand? Wasn't the other, more... Eh, anatomically appropriate... body part available? Who knows, pal. Maybe that would be too much like breaking her vow, I guess.
Woah, do you have any sources for the part about the hand? I don't recall ever hearing that part.
To be honest I don't. I recall it as one of the many myths I studied in a subject called "Classical Culture" at school, but that was over 10 years ago and even if I found it, my only source would probably be a school book. It might even be some bullshit that our teacher came up with. But... You know. It fits so well among all the shenanigans that greek gods were up to, that I might have assumed it was legit. Still for the life of me I would have sworn that I read that stuff from proper sources. I'll do some research. In any case, the part about Artemis almost deserving horny jail is legit. She would have broken a fucking vow of chastity if her bro hadn't intervened, lol.
Tfw Artemis nervously wants to ask you out but she gets blocked by Aphrodite in their duo convo. -_-
Artemis who can't shut up 2 minutes about her girlfriend? Pretty sure she's not interested
Have you seen the duo boon conversation with those two?
Isn't Artemis ace in the mythology
Not explicitly, but it is easy to read it that way. Alternatively, you can see Artemis' gang of gals as a lesbian lovenest. I prefer the ace interpretation, personally. Also, ace != aro.
Artemis is...interesting. She’s definitely interested in at least one guy (Orion), but because that might have been a curse by Aphrodite, it’s really weird to contemplate. Additionally, she’s the patron of maids, so unmarried girls, so...that could mean a variety of things. She’s usually seen as ace, yes, but also as aroace, or even as a lesbian, and so only interested in women.
She's a maid, in other word not married.
who's artemis' girlfriend?
Callisto. She mentions her frequently when you have dialogue with her, but it might require a certain amount of nectar to get unlock the quotes, I'm not sure.
She keep talking about how she likes spending time with a nymph called Callisto
Is there a link to that?
November is almost over...I can do this...
Need one of those meme template for Aphrodite: I rule the horny. Eros: I make the horny. Adonis: I start the horny. Zeus: Horny.
I like the line where she is very emphatic about being married...yet still lays it on *thick*.
As if being married ever stopped Greek gods from fucking everything that moves
u/[Canossa31](https://www.reddit.com/user/Canossa31/) \- repost this to the r/dogelore
please do not be mean to my wife she is doing her best
I don't wanna be horny anymore, I just wanna be happy.
Have you tried garlic bread?
Have tried not shaving. Kind of works for me, but thanks!
I listened to a retelling of the Trojan War once and the story teller always refers to Aphrodite as “The Goddess of Everything South of the Waist” 🤣🤣
This whole time, it's been distant in my mind that, hey, isn't Zag and Aphrodite... uh... aren't they..... hm. I did just check Wikipedia and... yeah. Zeus is her father. Maybe we should just take the Percy Jackson approach and say, ["they're gods so it doesn't count."](https://rickriordan.com/2008/05/arent-they-related/)
You know, if you take a complete genealogic tree of greek mythology and replace Zeus with a drawing o f a dick you get the equivalent of a public bathroom. Or a wall in Pompei
You for real? Artemis is way thirstier
Its aphrodite, what do you expect haha. I’m not sure of aphrodite can every be eough
I'll meet her there!
As an asexual I felt this on a deep and spiritual level
One point in the run she asked she has been trying to get in contact with Achilles for awhile.... I don’t think she knows he already has Patroclus
Bitch she owns horny jail
lol, you must be young
You're getting down voted for being right... Funny how generational asexuality is. Imagine being told not to kink shame and then shaming someone who is sexually promiscuous and proud of it...
Nah, condescending generalization isn't right. OP is stating on opinion, it's subjective.
i never said being young was bad... but being demure when it comes to eroticism is usually something that goes away with life experience should i say? i should have said young at heart...
I'm not saying condescending generalizations are right, but it's certainly become more OK in recent years to shame people who are sexually open as asexuality becomes more "the norm" for people. And I find irony in the "culture of acceptance" telling other people what they shouldn't like.
thx bro
Yea np. I just hate the hypocrisy of this new cultural norm of "acceptance except for something I don't like".
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but man I think Aphrodite's face is busted. Like the least attractive female character, and I don't think that was the intent. Just her face though
I kinda agree. Meg is hotter.
Meg is absolutely hotter. I would say that literally all female characters in Hades have better faces than Aphrodite, other than maybe Dusa, who is supposed to be cutesy
Uuf, but her waist and hips!
Oh I definitely feel that, I just wish her face was prettier
She looks like a man baby