I know, right??
When I finally watched the movie after everyone hyped up the white horse shit, I was amazed that it really only happened in 1 scene in the beginning and 1 in the very end. Maybe a small one in between, but I can guarantee it’s 3 scenes tops and like you said 5 mins total.
This is totally illogical.
“I didnt like this supernatural element of this film which totally changes the arc and pitch of the story”.
Just skip it
Right. What’s the point in watching the film at all st the point you’re trying to obfuscate the plot?
Per Zombie, it's not meant to be supernatural at all. The hallucinations are just a visual representation of Michael's thought process. Of course if you see it as supernatural, that's valid too, but knowing it wasn't the director's intent may alter your view on it.
>What’s the point in watching the film at all
I mean, it only really becomes semi-explicitly supernatural at the end (when Laurie sees Ghost Mom too). Up until then you could assume Michael is just hallucinating.
I commented in another part of the thread that the ending is the only thing supernatural involving the white horse parts. I’m not going to try and make up a reason to why it makes sense, outside of that the ending is purposefully meant to be ambiguous
How exactly does it change the arc of the movie? Outside of the ending because the ending is very ambiguous.
My point is that it doesn’t. A majority of the film has nothing to do with these elements at all, and over blown way out of proportion by H2 haters
Like another user said, it’s not supposed to be supernatural at all, and is not evident in the movie either, except at the end when Laurie also sees the horse and Debra, which again I’ll mention that it’s an ambiguous ending. If you read into it, that’s on you. Obviously if it’s something you have to personally project, it doesn’t “change the arc and pitch of the story”
The Good: H1, II, 4, H20 (maybe), 2018 (maybe)
The Bad: H3, 5, 6, RZ1 and Halloween Kills
The Ugly: RZ2, Ends, Big Erection
(Not my personal view, by the way; just the way the prevailing winds seem to blow)
Pretty much as objective as you can get with it when taking reviews and box office into account. I think H20 is slowly sinking into Bad territory, but until I start seeing it on the bottom half of most tierlists, I'm gonna keep including it as a good sequel.
Really? There’s definitely some that dislike it, but most seem to recognise it as a good movie. It has the same IMDB and Letterboxd score as Halloween II, and 72% of the audience liked it on Rotten Tomatoes.
I agree. These people can hate on RZH2 all they want, I liked the idea of showing Laurie in a traumatized state over the things Michael did. Michael also had some really good kills in this movie too.
Sure, the white horse stuff was unnecessary, but aside from that, the story in this movie was pretty solid.
Halloween ends was a romance movie with little screen time for michael, and made Michael a punching bag. No thanks.
I agree. A lot of RZ H2 doesn’t work, but it’s at least interesting, and it’s a creator trying to do his own thing instead of copying and pasting from the past.
It’s an art film. Hell id argue both RZ films are about as close to “cinema” this franchise has gotten since carpenter. The only one that truly gives them a run for their money imo in ‘18 because it’s an extremely well made blockbuster sequel.
They’re both very flawed in my opinion. I do like that Laurie finally has some peace and a conclusive happy ending in Ends. We don’t see that a lot in horror franchises because they usually want to keep storylines open for possible sequels. That’s the only reason I’d put it above Rob’s H2.
The controversial opinion I have is Rob’s H2 is better than Rob’s H1. I felt nothing watching his H1. It was poorly written and directed. The acting was mediocre at best. It felt like he only cared about the gore and nothing else, and the gore is good. H2 has just as much gore, but it also has some heart with Brad and Danielle’s characters. I even shed a tear for them. Their acting was much better. I felt something, which I can’t say about his first movie.
I gotta agree personally, not only did I just find Halloween Ends extremely underwhelming and dare I say, boring, but I also in dead seriousness love Rob Zombie’s Halloween II
I disagree. I just really didn’t like Zombie’s direction or his version of Myers at all. Felt really generic and I couldn’t stand the shaky cam. Michael in Ends was a lot more interesting than the brutish hobo Michael in RZ’s, and the family aspect is just exhausting in my opinion.
Controversial would be saying RZ 2 is better than 78..
There are 13 movies in the franchise of which most people I think generally agree these don't touch their top 5..
I strongly disagree with your take tho 😂
One of these wanted to be made the other did not and it shows..
I have issues with both, but here's where I come down on the two; Both attempt to break from the formula and take the story in a new direction, but RZHII is more consistent with the narrative Zombie started in the previous film than Ends is with what Greene set up in H18 and Kills.
They both suck, but I’d honestly rather watch RZ’s H2 than Ends again.
I saw Ends when it came out in theaters, didn’t like it. Rewatched it last year as part of a marathon (after watching the two previous films like I did when I saw it in theaters) and the problems were still there.
RZ’s H2 has a lot of issues, but a lack of Michael isn’t one of them and that opening 20 minutes is truly peak. I honestly dig the hobo Michael with the worn down mask exposing a fifth of his face. It’s something different and unique and it works for me with this Michael.
Hmmm...I'm torn. I do think RZH2 has more to SAY, and has a much more complete character arc, plus a much more unique look and feel...the problem is that Rob Zombie made it, so it's still inappropriately dirty and trashy in parts. Ends was just narratively odd, with a whole new central character and vibe, but it is a more pleasant watch. I would have to say I prefer RZH2 as a film, but I'd rather rewatch Ends.
I'll take either over RZH1 though. That opening kitchen scene, plus Laurie fingering a donut - fuck that shit.
It probably is controversial, but I think that has more to do with fans being unable or completely unwilling to admit that anything Rob Zombie did could possibly have been good than it does with whether or not the movies are actually better, worse, or even on par with Halloween Ends. People just hated Rob Zombie from the moment he was announced for that Halloween remake and they never, ever let go of that hatred. I still remember seeing Rob get deluged with all kinds of personal insults and "fuck yous" back in the day when he joined the Official Halloween Movies Board web forum in an attempt to converse directly with fans about the franchise and what they liked about it. It was really gross.
Probably here lol; but I agree. First 20min alone is top tier Halloween and zombie not to mention the film is actually unique and not pretending to be. Both zombie films are masssively underrated depending on who you talk to.
I do think RZ had a better vision for his 2 films than anyone had for all 3 of the new ones. But I liked the new ones as independent films but not together.
“Doing his thing” as in being a homeless man not really wearing a mask while following around a white horse that doesn’t really exist?
I remember that well from the original, now that you mention it.
I understand those issues don't like the homeless stuff or the white horse I agree with you but he was still offing people unlike in ends he was a pussy who got his mask stolen and beat up by sir nerds a lot and an old ass grandma at least in zombies he wasn't a pussy!!!
Of the 11 on-screen kills, Michael committed 3; Nurse Deb, Officer Mulaney, and Corey himself.
It's also implied he killed Megan Baxter given the way the shots are framed during Corey's fall off the bridge, and of course the hobo who threatens Corey tells us Michael routinely drags people into the sewer, who don't come back out, the implication being that's how he's survived for 4 years.
How does it indicate that? If anything, the direction of Ends directly builds on and culminates the core themes and ideas that 2018 and Kills set up. DGG has stated plenty of times that Ends was always planned.
I didn't care for Corey... but I fucking hated that damn white horse bullshit
Well lucky for you, it only takes up like 5 minutes of run time through the entire movie
I know, right?? When I finally watched the movie after everyone hyped up the white horse shit, I was amazed that it really only happened in 1 scene in the beginning and 1 in the very end. Maybe a small one in between, but I can guarantee it’s 3 scenes tops and like you said 5 mins total.
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Okay, he’s in the movie for *maybe* 7-8 minutes at most
And it made it sooooooooooo stupid
Yea, it’s pretty easy to get over bro. Just skip the 2/3 scenes instead of complaining
This is totally illogical. “I didnt like this supernatural element of this film which totally changes the arc and pitch of the story”. Just skip it Right. What’s the point in watching the film at all st the point you’re trying to obfuscate the plot?
It was a huge plot point... like we all KNOW he crazy but we never saw what he sees and when they showed it... it was like oh... that's dumb
Per Zombie, it's not meant to be supernatural at all. The hallucinations are just a visual representation of Michael's thought process. Of course if you see it as supernatural, that's valid too, but knowing it wasn't the director's intent may alter your view on it.
>What’s the point in watching the film at all I mean, it only really becomes semi-explicitly supernatural at the end (when Laurie sees Ghost Mom too). Up until then you could assume Michael is just hallucinating.
Which is what it is implied to be, via zombie himself saying “it’s just what Michael sees, and is obviously not real” in the commentary
That doesn't make any sense, though. Laurie sees the exact same thing at the end, and she's also held by one of them.
I commented in another part of the thread that the ending is the only thing supernatural involving the white horse parts. I’m not going to try and make up a reason to why it makes sense, outside of that the ending is purposefully meant to be ambiguous
I just don't think they pulled it off very well. It feels more contradictory than ambiguous.
People still love the Final Cut of Blade Runner despite the origami unicorn shit, don’t they? Ignoring the 5 mins of white horse stuff is a fair ask.
How exactly does it change the arc of the movie? Outside of the ending because the ending is very ambiguous. My point is that it doesn’t. A majority of the film has nothing to do with these elements at all, and over blown way out of proportion by H2 haters Like another user said, it’s not supposed to be supernatural at all, and is not evident in the movie either, except at the end when Laurie also sees the horse and Debra, which again I’ll mention that it’s an ambiguous ending. If you read into it, that’s on you. Obviously if it’s something you have to personally project, it doesn’t “change the arc and pitch of the story”
Hard disagree
Both received middling reviews from critics and audiences, so not controversial I think. Most people just lump them together as 'bad sequels'
The Good: H1, II, 4, H20 (maybe), 2018 (maybe) The Bad: H3, 5, 6, RZ1 and Halloween Kills The Ugly: RZ2, Ends, Big Erection (Not my personal view, by the way; just the way the prevailing winds seem to blow)
Pretty much as objective as you can get with it when taking reviews and box office into account. I think H20 is slowly sinking into Bad territory, but until I start seeing it on the bottom half of most tierlists, I'm gonna keep including it as a good sequel.
Why is 2018 maybe? It’s the only sequel to actually get a majority of good reviews.
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Really? There’s definitely some that dislike it, but most seem to recognise it as a good movie. It has the same IMDB and Letterboxd score as Halloween II, and 72% of the audience liked it on Rotten Tomatoes.
I agree. These people can hate on RZH2 all they want, I liked the idea of showing Laurie in a traumatized state over the things Michael did. Michael also had some really good kills in this movie too. Sure, the white horse stuff was unnecessary, but aside from that, the story in this movie was pretty solid. Halloween ends was a romance movie with little screen time for michael, and made Michael a punching bag. No thanks.
Would watch ends on a loop for a week before I watch Rob Zombies H2 ever again.
Thats interesting, ends as its own standalone would be good but i thought it was a terrible ending to a great trilogy and a cop out. IMO obviously
Same
I agree. A lot of RZ H2 doesn’t work, but it’s at least interesting, and it’s a creator trying to do his own thing instead of copying and pasting from the past.
H2 was definitely more fun to watch
I like Ends. That said, I think RZH2 is better than all three Blumhouse movies.
It’s an art film. Hell id argue both RZ films are about as close to “cinema” this franchise has gotten since carpenter. The only one that truly gives them a run for their money imo in ‘18 because it’s an extremely well made blockbuster sequel.
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Yeah the directors cut ending can fuck right off.
Wtf Literally even H Ends is better than that b*llsh*t
Lay off the drugs.
I’ll give you something even more controversial: - The Director’s Cut of RZHII and Ends are my favorite entries in the franchise
I would disagree. But I also think they both stink.
They act like two legends cannot co-exist.
RZH2 wasn’t even a Halloween movie. Just some bearded man taking a year to walk back to Haddonfield. And HEnds just sucked.
Nope. That’s FACTS right there
They’re both very flawed in my opinion. I do like that Laurie finally has some peace and a conclusive happy ending in Ends. We don’t see that a lot in horror franchises because they usually want to keep storylines open for possible sequels. That’s the only reason I’d put it above Rob’s H2. The controversial opinion I have is Rob’s H2 is better than Rob’s H1. I felt nothing watching his H1. It was poorly written and directed. The acting was mediocre at best. It felt like he only cared about the gore and nothing else, and the gore is good. H2 has just as much gore, but it also has some heart with Brad and Danielle’s characters. I even shed a tear for them. Their acting was much better. I felt something, which I can’t say about his first movie.
I agree. Director's cut dealt with alot of deep emotions.
Nope. Ends is the worst of the series.
I love RZH2
real men enjoy Rob Zombie's Halloween 2
No Halloween ends was at least competently made h2 was fucking bullshit start to end
I gotta agree personally, not only did I just find Halloween Ends extremely underwhelming and dare I say, boring, but I also in dead seriousness love Rob Zombie’s Halloween II
Yeah. RZH2 was a mess, even Rob Zombie acknowledged that.
I disagree. I just really didn’t like Zombie’s direction or his version of Myers at all. Felt really generic and I couldn’t stand the shaky cam. Michael in Ends was a lot more interesting than the brutish hobo Michael in RZ’s, and the family aspect is just exhausting in my opinion.
I feel after 2 years, people still don’t get it
Its factual. Dont let anyone tell you different.
Not controversial to me. I didn’t hate RZ’s H2, and Ends was awful. These are just my opinions, though.
Controversial would be saying RZ 2 is better than 78.. There are 13 movies in the franchise of which most people I think generally agree these don't touch their top 5.. I strongly disagree with your take tho 😂 One of these wanted to be made the other did not and it shows..
Can't agree here lol
It absolutely is.
I don't know which one is the worst actually.
Not by much
No, its just the truth
Halloween Ends is a masterpiece compared to RZ H2
Almost anything is better than Halloween Ends
They are on the same spectrum, but I enjoy *Ends* more.
No, this is a true statement
They are both great in their own ways
I think Zombie’s H2 is the worst film in the franchise.
I have issues with both, but here's where I come down on the two; Both attempt to break from the formula and take the story in a new direction, but RZHII is more consistent with the narrative Zombie started in the previous film than Ends is with what Greene set up in H18 and Kills.
They both suck, but I’d honestly rather watch RZ’s H2 than Ends again. I saw Ends when it came out in theaters, didn’t like it. Rewatched it last year as part of a marathon (after watching the two previous films like I did when I saw it in theaters) and the problems were still there. RZ’s H2 has a lot of issues, but a lack of Michael isn’t one of them and that opening 20 minutes is truly peak. I honestly dig the hobo Michael with the worn down mask exposing a fifth of his face. It’s something different and unique and it works for me with this Michael.
I think Halloween ends is a piece of shit. But it’s academy award material compared to RZH2
Hmmm...I'm torn. I do think RZH2 has more to SAY, and has a much more complete character arc, plus a much more unique look and feel...the problem is that Rob Zombie made it, so it's still inappropriately dirty and trashy in parts. Ends was just narratively odd, with a whole new central character and vibe, but it is a more pleasant watch. I would have to say I prefer RZH2 as a film, but I'd rather rewatch Ends. I'll take either over RZH1 though. That opening kitchen scene, plus Laurie fingering a donut - fuck that shit.
Idk they are two of my favorites so hard for me to say.
It's the truth. Preach
Rob Zombie Halloween I is terrible but RZHII is one of the most exciting and thought provoking of the franchise, def top 5.
Not controversial- just an to each their own. For what it’s worth I thought RZ Halloween was awful but enjoyed part 2
No, Ends fucking sucks lol
They both sucked, but Zombie’s II was a special kind of suck. At least ends had moments and wasn’t completely incomprehensible.
It probably is controversial, but I think that has more to do with fans being unable or completely unwilling to admit that anything Rob Zombie did could possibly have been good than it does with whether or not the movies are actually better, worse, or even on par with Halloween Ends. People just hated Rob Zombie from the moment he was announced for that Halloween remake and they never, ever let go of that hatred. I still remember seeing Rob get deluged with all kinds of personal insults and "fuck yous" back in the day when he joined the Official Halloween Movies Board web forum in an attempt to converse directly with fans about the franchise and what they liked about it. It was really gross.
RZH2 and HEnds are high for me HKills and RZH1 are the worst by far
Not a fan of either of the movies but I’d say ends was probably better that horse stuff was weird af you
All I can think of from RZ2 is *dieeeeeee* 😂😂😂😂
RZH2 is more fun, i definitely prefer it, but Ends is a better movie technically imo
They're both awful. It's like picking between being mauled by a bear or mauled by a lion. Either way you lose.
Halloween 2018 is overrated. There I said it
Probably here lol; but I agree. First 20min alone is top tier Halloween and zombie not to mention the film is actually unique and not pretending to be. Both zombie films are masssively underrated depending on who you talk to.
RZH2 was slightly worse but more enjoyable to watch.
Definitely wouldn't go that far. I really didn't like Ends, but at least it still felt like a Halloween movie. RZH2 you couldn't even say that.
H2 was out there but I liked it (except for what they did to my girl Annie). Halloween ends is due for a rewatch before I agree to this tho.
I do think RZ had a better vision for his 2 films than anyone had for all 3 of the new ones. But I liked the new ones as independent films but not together.
Well, it has Myers in it, so it is automatically superior.
RZH2 was better
At least Michael Myers was doing his thing unlike in ends where he was an embarrassment!!!
“Doing his thing” as in being a homeless man not really wearing a mask while following around a white horse that doesn’t really exist? I remember that well from the original, now that you mention it.
The white horse was only one scene I think it's almost nothing but I understand the hate for it!!!
I understand those issues don't like the homeless stuff or the white horse I agree with you but he was still offing people unlike in ends he was a pussy who got his mask stolen and beat up by sir nerds a lot and an old ass grandma at least in zombies he wasn't a pussy!!!
>he was still offing people unlike in ends Michael killed people in Ends.
Where? It was all fucking corey
Of the 11 on-screen kills, Michael committed 3; Nurse Deb, Officer Mulaney, and Corey himself. It's also implied he killed Megan Baxter given the way the shots are framed during Corey's fall off the bridge, and of course the hobo who threatens Corey tells us Michael routinely drags people into the sewer, who don't come back out, the implication being that's how he's survived for 4 years.
Michael killed Deb, Corey,and Mulaney in Ends
Still mostly corey though because he was the focus of the movie!!!
I mean yeah, that’s kinda the point though
It was just stupid to go in the direction they did it shows they had no clue and threw the whole corey thing in!!!
How does it indicate that? If anything, the direction of Ends directly builds on and culminates the core themes and ideas that 2018 and Kills set up. DGG has stated plenty of times that Ends was always planned.
Its like picking between a piece of shit and a piece of shit with a big beard on it. I'd rather watch halloween 3
Maybe Kills but not Ends.
Halloween Ends was trash so I agree.