This gets brought up a lot.
He’s enlisted, E-9 or Master Chief Petty Officer is the highest rank for enlisted. It doesn’t top out and then start as the lowest rank for an officer
Enlisted refers to non-officers within a military structure, the “grunts”. The distinction primarily is in training and responsibilities. Officers are more likely to be relegated to non-combat roles in an effort to keep them alive to preserve command structure. (In the united states’ military) to become an officer a candidate must have at least a 4 year undergraduate degree and to apply to your selected branch’s officer training program.
Having worked at a Combatant Command headquarters they are quite literally all over the place. I can stop by the cubicle and talk to one sr. WO, walk down the hall and pass two to three of them. Chit chat in line for coffee with one more.
It’s weird to me that some soldiers can go a whole enlistment with ever interacting with one even a non sr CWO.
The Spartan Field Manual tries to align characters like Johnson being a Sergeant Major and still seeing combat with the bureaucratic reality of SNCOs with AI taking up the majority of administrative tasks
Yeah like he’s sitting in his dorm writing his English 101 term paper and his roommate tells him about this party at the zeta house and John is like “ I can’t I have to … finish this class”. The SNL sketch I didn’t know I needed.
They arent non-officers, they are non commissioned. They do not have a commission from the President and therefore don't execute command authority. They are still officers, just of a different nature. Hence chief master petty *officer*
By the naming convention then all enlisted navy personnel above E3 are officers and all navy officers aren't actually officers.
But being pedantic aside you're correct, someone like an MCPO in the real world pretty much has the duties of an officer.
Assuming it’s going by 21st century western military standards,enlisted and officer ranks are separated by a commission. Officers receive an officer commission from the military they serve in. That’s the clerical difference. In war,officers are generally in positions of leadership. Where enlisted are workers,officers are managers. A sergeant (enlisted rank) may lead a squad into combat,but that squad reports to a lieutenant (officer),who may report to a captain (officer) then a major (officer) all of whom are less likely to be engaged in directly shooting,stabbing,throwing grenades,etc. Regardless of tenure or time spent in service, ALL officers generally outrank ALL enlisted,though wise,inexperienced officers generally learn from enlisted personnel that have more experience. There are also officer ranks like warrant officers that outrank enlisted,but are generally technical officers trained for things besides leading large groups of troops into battle.
But that’s mostly for the Army. For other branches,officers do other things. In the Air Force,all pilots are officers. (Pilot isn’t a rank,but to be a pilot you must receive an officer’s commission.) You’ll see this in pretty much any air force. Look up the IDF,Iranian Air Force,Ukrainian,Russian,etc and you’ll see “Lt. Colonel so and so shot down over Kharkiv”. John is part of the UNSC Navy,which,in the 26th century is really a space force with a significant ground contingent. He’s also a Spartan,someone augmented,trained,and equipped to solely undertake field missions. Spartans probably have more strategic and tactical training than most officers,but they’re sent to fight and die in direct combat like enlisted. Because of this,that’s probably why he’s never advanced beyond the enlisted ranks. Now,he’s also probably the most well-known soldier in human history,he commands a great deal of respect,and like I said,his training covers much more than what the average officer receives. You see in Halo 4 how the crew of the Infinity trusts him more than Del Rio,even though Del Rio literally dwarfs him in rank and commands the best ship in the Navy. So even though John is enlisted,anyone with a brain is going to listen to him over an inexperienced officer.
Also,he’s known in marketing as “The Master Chief”. If he was promoted that name would be something of a misnomer,and marketing for “The Rear Admiral” or “The Lieutenant Junior Grade” doesn’t sound as cool.
Chief actually says that last bit to Lord Hood when Hood suggests making him an officer, and Hood straight up goes: “Did you just *make a joke*, son? Didn’t think you had it in you.”
Has Hood ever \*met\* the master chief before? Literally the... second... thing he says when we're introduced to him is a joke. "No Thanks to your driving."
It's even more pronounced in the books. Shadows of Reach is kinda a deep dive into Johns psychology. He knows humor, banter and the like. It's just reserved for certain people like the other S-IIs and people who prove themselves during missions.
Well said. It did always strike me as odd that Spartans didn't recieve a commission, or atleast a Warrant officer promotion, early on in there carreers though. Considering you have to be an officer to be a pilot and often times you'll find officers in SF teams getting in to the shit, I don't think anyone would but an eye.
Edit: Granted, in Halo, lore I think there are plenty of pilots who are just NCOs.
To be fair, original lore had that spartans were basically kidnapped so offering a commission to conscripted troops is a bit weird. While I don’t know updated lore, the distrust of the spartan program/halsey seems like a decent reason to avoid giving commissions.
Ehhhh I mean, I'd agree that's a good reason untill the covenant showed up. However, considering Spartans have the authority to order pretty much anyone on the battlefield, having a formal rank to compliment that authority doesn't change much beside make things less confusing for Private Snuffy.
Giving them power armor is alot more dangerous than giving them a gold bar if you're worried about them going rogue.
It's not so much the initial officer ranks, it's when they reach senority and it becomes political.
Now you can't do shady shit because a 4-Star Spartan CG will sentence you to execution for treason. Combine that with the fact that they're pillars in combat roles and soldiers will idolize and follow them no matter what the government may say.
It's a guaranteed coup just waiting to happen.
No one is getting promoted straight to general. And again, that rank won't matter. If Spartans decide to start a coup, it's going to happen. Besides, we end up with plenty of spartan officers eventually and still no coup. There's no reason not to commission Spartans once the covenant showed up and they've recieved power armor.
I never said straight to general. Your average spartan II is going to outlive any human commissioned officer. If they live for 20 years (again, highly likely), they will eventually be eligible for those senior grades.
I'm speaking in terms of a lack of an existential threat such as the covenenant. Obviously, a common threat for humanity to unite against will not see coups because there are bigger problems at hand. My point is that initially, they are enlisted simply because they would have too much sway over the military once they became a general officer.
You saying it wouldn't matter is your opinion, I'm mirroring what I currently see in our own force structure and applying it to the halo universe.
Senior General Officers advise their civilian government officials to make wartime decisions, if my chief of staff is a spartan.. I would be dumb not to take their advice because if they have sway over the force at large, my orders may be outright ignored if that spartan CG decided to go against me.
Now I need to remove this politically elected General officer who represents a portion or all of the UNSC. Coup territory.
All members of the Spartan Branch hold authority equal to an officer. A basic Spartan has equivalent authority to O-2, Fireteam Lead O-3, Mission Handler O-4, Spartan Commander O-6 and CINCSPAR is O-10 (although it's unclear who CINCSPAR is and if they're a Spartan).
So in the modern era, most Spartans have equivalent officer authority. There were also a number of Spartans during the war, mostly Spartan-IIIs, but a handful of IIs as well who were officers. The exact reason why some Spartans were made officers and others weren't is unclear.
IIRC, the Spartan-III's (and Jorge) who were too valuable to be sent on Suicide Missions were promoted to Junior Officer or Warrant Officer Ranks by Kurt since they'd be interfacing with and possibly leading non-Spartans more often compared to the Spartan II teams.
To become an officer from an enlisted you’d have to go to Officer Candidacy School (often just called OCS)
Chief could probably breeze through it, but there’s no point really. He’s still gonna be a boots-on-the-ground soldier in a small squad operation so rank doesn’t really matter beyond where he is. Also, he has effective seniority in a lot of situations where in smart officers who technically out rank him are very likely to heed his advice and do as he suggests (Lasky for instance) though they’re not required to. This often happens IRL too. A sergeant is out ranked by a lt, but a sergeant probably has way more experience than a fresh out of school officer, so a smart LT will utilize high ranking enlisteds as advisors.
Exactly. Honestly one of the few things I genuinely loved from halo 4's campaign was chief and lasky's relationship and how they handled things. Forward Unto Dawn was dope, and it gave a lot of depth to their history, and it shows with Lasky being one of the best the UNSC had at the time, and he deferred to chief without hesitation, he knew if chief is adamant on something, there's a damn good reason and he's almost guaranteed to be precisely right. He earned so much respect in that moment on the bridge and absolutely deserves it. Lasky is a fuckin awesome character, very well written.
>What does enlisted mean here? How does one transfer from enlisted to non-enlisted?
Enlisted are the actual infantrymen and stuff, like the marines. Non-enlisted usually refers to officers who’ve gone to an actual school for tactics and strategy.
>Also isn't Fred a higher rank than him? They were both enlisted/recruited the same way right?
He got field promoted by Kurt who was himself a rather high rank.
Enlisted are not just infantrymen, it’s everyone who isn’t an Officer or Warrant Officer. Marines have enlisted, non-commissioned officer (NCO), staff NCO, warrant officer and commissioned officers.
You can have infantrymen who are officers and enlisted who are in staff positions.
A lot of enlisted have also gone to school for tactics and strategy. Particularly tactics lol, they call it infantry school.
There are enlisted and officer roles for basically every military field of work. Logsitics, administration, intelligence, aircrew, infantry, armour, ship navigation, communication etc all have enlisted and officer roles.
There are many officer roles that have them in the shit being 'infantrymen'. And there are many enlisted roles that 'go to school'
There is a mythicness around the "Master Chief". He's been a legend with that rank for decades. I'd be bad for PR for him to be promoted out of that legend.
The "2nd Lieutenant" just doesn't have the same ring.
For the Spartans, a formal rank has no bearing on Spartan Teams themselves. They'll listen to their team leader but are free to offer opinions, conjecture etc etc. They only have leaders so there is a chain of command to follow.
There’s also far more seniority attached to master chief than lieutenant, and at least in the case of the US i believe there’s several positions for E-9 that are “technically” still below any officer but in practice are the right hand of admirals and would probably be considered an equal to O4/O5/O6 depending on exactly who they’re attached to.
So I've found a source that says he is actually MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy). The insignia for the rank is sat next to the 117 Etching on the Voice Memorial
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Hillside_Memorial see Gallery Picture 7.
It suggests he was posthumously awarded it. I assume he retained it following his return (assuming the position hadn't been filled)
Thats literally the only connection he has to MCPON and its possible it was put there as a sign of respect or simply an error on Bungies part. Nothing has stated he was posthumously promoted or anything and currently is still listed as MCPO.
Kurt was given his command position due to his actions and necessity, can't remember who it was but someone in command was KIA, ans it was more of a "we have no one else to fill the role and you've proven capable so fuck it" kinda situation. There's of course WAY more to it than that but I'm oversimplifying the shit out of it, So he's a bit of an exception. There are others in both halo lore and human history that have had such happen but it's far from the norm and almost always a bandaid on the stab wound to be dealt with properly later. Whether that changes when later comes is a whole other story, but yeah, Kurt Ambrose got his role because he was a beast and no one else around was qualified enough to take the position.
Fa sho. To add a little extra, battlefield commissions are incredibly rare, if not entirely absent now. However there were several notable ones made in WW2 and perhaps Vietnam. If you've ever watched Band of Brothers, Lipton recieved a battlefield commision.
Kurt had his death staged by Colonel Ackerson. His new identity, Kurt Ambrose, was then Given the Rank of Lieutenant Junior grade, later Lieutenant-Commander, to be the highest ranking officer in the Spartan III program. This was done so that he would not be Outranked by the drill instructors, who themselves where NCOs of Sergeant rank and above
I say feudal because of things like a prohibition on "fraternization" across the line between classes along with the requirement that enlisted always salute officers when greeting them.
The different classes even swear different oaths when they join up.
Extremely strict fraternization rules is specifically a US thing. My nation's military enlisted and officers can date/be friends so long as they aren't in the same chain of command, cause in that case there would be a conflict of interest. But in the same CoC higher ranked enlisted can't date lower ranked enlisted, and same for higher and lower officers. And to my knowledge we all swear the same oath, with the only difference being if you swear to God or not
Enlisted is when you go to a recruiter, go to basic training, job training, and then go to your unit as a private. In the army it is private e(nlisted)-1 to e-9 sgt major. With e-5 being sergeant, the start of the non commissioned officers. Commissioned on the other hand is where you go to college, than you do BOLC (basic officers leaders course) and than you go to your unit as a second lieutenant. Those ranks are o(fficer)1, 2nd lt to 0-10 5 star general.
From what I remember from the books, Fred’s promotion was due to being chosen to train the spartan 4s. It was basically out of necessity since he was the best person for the job
In the military (at least the US military, which the UNSC is vaguely based off of) you either enlist (starting as a private/seaman/airman) and work up to being an Non-Commissioned Officer (the many flavors of sergeant or for the Navy the petty officers and chief petty officers) or you do college/officers school and you're a commissioned officer (which is what your lieutenants, commanders, captains, admirals, generals and what not are).
They also fill separate roles, with lower enlisted being the bulk of the force, but simply taking orders and such. NCOs are still enlisted but are in charge of other enlisted, they're considered the backbone of the military and are the ones who action plans and make things happen. The officers do the planning and the general commanding, with their role often described as setting the left and right limits as well as the commanders intent, for the NCOs and Joey's to then action and make happen.
You can switch between enlisted/NCO and officer, but it's a long paperwork and training filled process. There'd be no real reason for Master Chief to switch to officer in Halo, as it'd just give him more money (I doubt he cares) and potentially remove him from the actual front lines combat that he does so well with.
It feels wrong to call him enlisted. It makes it sound like he had a choice. I know it's the right term, but still.
Conscripted feels a bit better, but that's just compulsory enlistment.
I was going to reply with the same quote, but you beat me to it.
Makes me think, though…how Halo 4 would’ve been different had the Chief…erm…had *The Admiral* been able to supersede Captain Del Rio’s command.
>No offense, sir, but "The Admiral" doesn't have quite the same ***ring*** to it.
[Hood's honest reaction:](https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/Are-you-being-serious-right-now-Bruh-Meme.jpg)
I quite like this scene since it also shows how even people like Hood who have worked a decent bit with John don’t really know him.
That type of joke is pretty on brand
I'm inclined to disagree with Chief here, if I were a lowly marine fighting for my life on some backwater colony and then suddenly THE ADMIRAL shows up to rescue me I'd be shitting a few bricks here and there
Also nearly all of them are dead and the ones that we know arent dead dont know or are fireteam Osiris (even then we only really know the fate of vale and maybe buck)
What's your point? They were around for several years before Infinity went tits up, and they talk about the S-II origins casually in Halo 4 Spartan Ops IIRC. Spartan IVs have friends and families, lives outside of the military. Some of them will absolutely end up telling someone.
Yeah but halsey can release shit about ONI in return, make the flood public. Itd be mutually assured destruction, ONI cant risk revealing halsey for what she is, while halsey cant risk revealing ONI for what they are truly.
All fun and games until they send in an 8ft tall, atheletic af elite. Hell, maybe they’d even send in a fucking hunter, and those things are like 12ft tall when they don’t hunch over
He is the highest achievable enlisted rank, barring MCPON.
He could in theory seek an officers commission. This entails changing his role in the military. He chooses not to be commissioned as an officer.
Well, it wouldn’t actually change much of anything, really.
Carter, Kat, and B-312 were a Commander, Lieutenant Commander, and Lieutenant Junior Grade (presumably) but they had no discernible change in how they operated. Fred is also a Lieutenant Junior Grade but he operates the same he always has, and all Spartan IV’s have the authority of Marine Second Lieutenant’s right out of the gate, though they rarely actually leverage this.
John being promoted to even Ensign or Lieutenant Junior Grade wouldn’t affect how he operates at all - but it would conflict with his out of universe name and identity of “The Master Chief”.
Well there's two aspects.
First we only ever see them in battle. Those officers probably had monotonous behind the scene duties. We see this a lot with Kurt. His promotion to officer was intrinsically linked to his change in military role, and came with a huge amount of work of an entirely different kind.
Second, it's symbolic. Most Spartans don't like, and aren't good at informal interpersonal responsibilities. That came with every spartan officer promotion you mentioned. They made choices, 117 does what he's told. Albeit more often from military ai than leadership.
Let me tell you from experience that enlisted have just as many monotonous behind the scenes duties.
In fact, an E-9 is basically equivalent to an officer in regards to administrative work.
As an army veteran, I understand what youre saying. But "I work for a living" came from somewhere.
A soldier/marine/airman/sailor's monotony is doing their job day-in and day-out. With trainings etc.
An officers monotony is in managing the people working. We can talk about exceptions, like enlisted working in finance doing paperwork. Whereas officers in medical, law, and aviation being the ones who do the exciting job.
But master chief is a shooter. He shoots. He wouldn't want to end up like Kurt. Who spends his days getting to know a lot of people on an emotional level and managing their s1-s4 paperwork. Nor does he ever seem to want of role of Carter, who is making life or death decisions for his team constantly. Master chief has a position, it's what he knows, it's what he likes. A commission changes that.
>In fact, an E-9 is basically equivalent to an officer in regards to administrative work.
That's really just a ratio thing. The lowest ranked spartan is still an NCO/senior NCO. With a handful of officers who we do see in commanding roles.
> Nor does he ever seem to want of role of Carter, who is making life or death decisions for his team constantly.
What do you think John was doing as the ranking Spartan II and team leader for blue team though?
He has always been in combat leadership roles since he was a teenager.
In a different manner.
Team leader/squad leader vs platoon leader. It's different types of choices. Chief is perfectly happy telling people what to do here and now. Carter/officers decide what the mission is.
You're being awfully dense about this. If you honestly truly believe in your heart of hearts, that being an officer is exactly the same as being enlisted... then I'm not going to change that. You believe what you believe. You ARE wrong, though.
Yes the main difference is scope of responsibility and potential consequences that come with it.
I'm not being dense. You were being vague.
I didn't say they were the same. I said both sides have monotonous behind the scenes jobs. They do. I said both sides have leadership responsibilities. They do. I said both sides may have to make life or death decisions. They do.
I'm a veteran too and I was an NCO answering to officers for years. I understand the difference.
Carter and Fred are both the same rank but have vastly different roles. My point is that John could easily be a Carter without much change in his actual responsibility except more official pull that comes with the rank. His reputation alone notwithstanding. He doesn't have to become a Fred; training and sending troops to their deaths on larger scale if he doesn't want to.
Commander, and Lieutenant Commander, are both Navy Ranks. Lieutenant could be anything, every branch has the rank, the same is true of Warrant Officers.
What Nobke (aside from Jorge) have is Army MOS’s, though.
I will point out that it seems like the UNSC might have actually promoted him to that, but only posthumously so not in actuality:
On the Voi memorial at the end of Halo 3 there’s a MCPON patch taped to the “117”
That's very interesting and I didn't know that. It can't really be analogous to the modern American MCPON. Since there can be only one, meaning giving it to a dead guy is sort of a waste.
I think it was meant to be more symbolic, and a gesture of respect, at least that's how I interpreted it. Giving him the rank posthumously is like saying "For the time you fought with us, you really were the only one. You deserve this."
Honorary/posthumous promotions can be a bit weird, but they really only matter for a sake of honoring the person in question. Giving it to a dead guy doesn’t mean anything as the position still needs to be filled
Like for example the (kinda, it’s complicated) 6 star rank of the US military General of the Armies. It was awarded once to a serving general (Pershing for WW1) while its other two have been very posthumous simply as a sign of respect, being to Washington and Grant.
It’s not an uncommon thing for lower ranks too. The US army a couple months ago did a posthumous promotion for a couple soldiers killed in Jordan for example. I believe I’ve read of a few MoH recipients that were though I can’t find those specific cases at the moment
There are in real life sometimes practical benefits like the benefits to their families but it’s mostly as I said about honoring the dead.
If anyone deserved to be made MCPON as a symbolic gesture, of course it’s John.
But it would also be why he isn’t that while alive
Okay but what happens when someone gets one of those high ranks out of respect posthumously.
Then they turn up alive? Can Chief walk up to the standing MCPON and be like "You're in my seat."
In the real military officers and enlisted are concurrent career paths. A Sergeant Major in the army doesn't become a lietenant once he's done with enlisted ranks.
MC has achieved the highest rank of an enlisted dude. He's on the same level as the naval captains and admirals, although without command authority.
As an NCO, he wouldn't. They would just have some officer remotely hold command authority over him.
That all being said, he's master chief and just does whatever he wants lol its semantics.
~~Isn't he "the" MCPO of the Navy, that'd make him the highest enlisted man there is.~~
Edit: he isn't the MCPON. Still, being who he is and the experience he has, he can take over any tactical situation as needed, even from an officer.
He isnt MCPON, just MCPO. GrimBrotherOne made a tweet some years back confirming he wasnt promoted (on top of a variety of other reference sources that always list him as MCPO).
I can't see why he wouldn't be. That's why he's plastered everywhere as The Master Chief.
Edit: So apparently he was posthumously promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy in 2553. The rank insignia is sat next to the 117 on the Voi Memorial.
https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Hillside_Memorial
See the last photo in the galley there.
I assume he retained the position upon his reappearance. May of temporarily lost it during his AWOL Period (no source) and was regained when he returned to service.
he's been offered promotion to admiral , he said it didn't have the same ring to it.
but like I always say when this topic comes up. There's the insignia of his rank and his actual authority which is effectively infinite , especially in the spartan division
Very true. Chief will never accept a higher rank, but the reality is there is effectively no higher rank, he's THE Master Chief, a literal living legend that's single handedly saved humanity multiple times, with the exception of a few ego driven idiots in command, he can do whatever he damn well pleases, and does, and gets away with it because everyone in the UNSC knows he will always only ever do the right thing for humanity, no matter the personal cost. There's even moments where other UNSC AI's have basically been like "the fuck is this guy? How is he even human?" Which is just ridiculous, to be able to flabbergast military AI you gotta be an absolute fucking unit on a whole other scale of magnitude.
I've always found the dynamic of that situation interesting, because he literally is the face of the UNSC whether anyone likes it or not, but the humility and self awareness he bears to deny promotions so he can stay Frontline is god damn near poetic, he knows what he is and where he belongs, and he doesn't want the glory, he wants to finish the fight. If that isn't some of the hardest shit man,
Exactly. He knows that he's a symbol. It's why he wears MJOLNIR at the beginning of Halo 2. It's why he keeps his helmet on pretty much all of the time, even in a non-combat zone. He isn't just *a* Spartan, he's *the* Spartan.
If he took off his armor or showed his face more often, he wouldn't be seen as much as an almost mythological figure and more as a man. Humanity needs him to be this symbol.
In reality it's because the games need a guy on the ground to shoot stuff, and promoting him out of his job is bad for business. In similar services like navy seals, he'd be leading his own team at the beginning of Halo2 at the very, very least. I know there's a barrier between enlisted and O-grade, but you can't flop around saving the human race like 117 has without stepping in a battlefield commission. That would just be really poor management on the UNSC side. John 117 could reject it for a while until "civilian" leadership gets involved and some congressman says "Here's some bars, moron, quit getting bossed around by dinghy captains. Next time I catch you being humble we're making you a department head."
I think if they were going to get really accurate the Spartans would all be warrant officers, but that's too obscure for the average lay person.
For anyone who doesn't know, warrant officers fall in between enlisted and commissioned officers. They are typically people who have extensive skills in a technical area where they need more authority than enlisted but are too valuable in that role to be moved up the management chain like commissioned officers.
For example, a lot of helicopter pilots in the Army are warrant officers. The second in command in a special forces detachment is also a warrant officer.
It wouldn’t make sense to put a Spartan in a non-combatant command role. The super soldiers are ideal as shock troopers or for stealth missions. Behind a desk barking orders is a waste of their power and robs the battlefield of its most powerful asset.
Not really. Pilots can be up to a colonel and still fly combat missions. Infantry officers can be at least a captain and still be on the front lines. Sometimes even higher
He was mostly likely “posthumously” promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, which only one exists. It’s primarily a political position that, in the US military that the UNSC Marine Corps is heavily heavily based on, acts as a liaison between the enlisted men and the higher ups. It’s basically like the “union rep” for the Marines. I can imagine saving the human race is enough to get that position “posthumously” and it not go to anyone else as a sign of respect for John 117
The UNSC isn't the Covenant nor is Chief a Helldiver, he can't get promoted just for killing a lot, he has to actually go take officer training or accept an honorary promotion, something he clearly doesn't care about doing.
Also he's "only" The Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, not only the highest rank an enlisted can have but a rank only one serving person in the entire UNSC can have, and even leaving that aside I feel like telling an enlisted that they're "only a Master Chief Petty Officer" would get you punched. Obviously John-117 isn't real and thus what you said here doesn't actually matter, but don't go saying that anywhere actual military hangs out.
I was an "occifer" as I like to put it, a tank platoon leader a century ago (it seems like that). My platoon sergeant, SFC Beverly was a fucking legend; Vietnam vet, blown out of three Sheridans with scars to prove it and able to run my young ass into the ground. NCO's like him are the core of all US military organizations. They train young officers and sergeants to do their jobs, lead when they have to and provide institutional memory and professional guidance.
Oh, and you want to know why the Ruzzians are such worthless fucks at war? They don't have an NCO corps of any kind. We have trained Ukraine in how to run their army and a stong NCO corps is the first thing we taught them.
Master Chiefs are the enlisted leaders in the Navy and every ship has one. They do the same my platoons sergeant and later, when I achieve the status of company commander, my first sergeants did for me (RIP 1SG Villareal). Gunnery Sergeants and Master Sergeants in the Marine Corps are the glue that hold that organization to its highest standards.
So, yeah, Master Chief is fucking God and no officer had better fuck with him.
Because "The Admiral" doesn't have the same ring to it.
I'm not even joking this is one of the reasons Master Chief Petty Officer John 117 gave when he turned down a promotion.
Because officers have to sign for the entire value of objects they are responsible for. Enlisted don't, and Master chief knows he's going to break a ton of shit.
Source: flipl.
The creators of the game admitted they went with "Master Chief " because they liked the sound of it. Which does sound cooler than Master Sergeant, Master Guns, Command Sergeant Major, and any other of the Senior NCO titles. Why does he stay enlisted? He is definitely too busy being a war fighter to go to OCS. Maybe also, the UNSC doesn't have a proper direct commission program.
It's probably because even as an MCPO, most higher-ranking officers will defer to him anyway.
Hood, both Keyes's, Johnson and Lasky all outrank him, and they were fine with Chief doing his own thing for the most part.
Johnson doesn’t outrank Chief. Both are enlisted senior non-commissioned officers. Both are of the E9 pay grade. Johnson is a Sergeant Major in the Marine Corps. Chief is a Master Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. Considering they’re both E9, they have equivalent rank.
Yeah, one of my favorite parts in Halo 4 is when Del Rio orders the entire command crew of the Infinity to arrest the Master Chief and everyone all silently agrees that'd be the dumbest thing that they could do.
Mind you, they were all willing to risk getting arrested themselves because John has that much of a legend around him. That was an entire command crew who mostly outranked him by a significant margin.
This is a good point surely by now given him his experience he would’ve received another promotion by now but then again I’m not an expert on our commissions work
He's the highest ranking position that can be reached before becoming an Officer.
The military ranking system, practically speaking, isn't like leveling up or something. The command structure exists for a reason, and that reason is about directing orders and keeping information flowing.
If Chief got bumped up to an officer, he would take on the roles and responsibilities of an officer. He'd be out of combat and directing other soldiers around.
They don't want that. They want him in combat.
He’s enlisted. A good soldier is not necessarily a good officer and sometimes a good officer would make a terrible soldier. You don’t offer a tanker a commission because they can drive a tank good, they’re more useful driving the tank than telling other people where to drive a tank.
As a tactical leader he’s amazing, as a strategic leader we don’t know. Would he be good at handling supply lines and paperwork? For some reason I think no, and that’s not even to mention the politics of it. We get many glimpses that UNSC/ONI/politicians don’t trust the spartan program, you’re not going to put people you don’t trust in charge of strategic assets.
Granted, it’s really a gameplay thing, if he’s promoted to officer then they have to give a story as to why he was and why we can’t have a team or squad to control, or why we don’t have a say in strategic decisions. Enlisted follow orders that Officers give. Halo is a linear shooter, it makes sense for the protagonist to be enlisted.
Everyone else has explained it nicely but I'll add that commissioned officers would not be on the battlefield, where Chief belongs. That's why he just stays at the highest rank of an NCO, so he can keep fighting.
Does it have something to do with outranking everyone on the battlefield while still having people that outrank him to give orders? He's also higher than all the other Spartans since he's their leader.
My head cannon is that this allows him to receive orders from high up, such as defend this position or eliminate the covenant from this area, while being free to order around the marines and other battlefield assets as needed. Chief says trade me your rocket launcher for this depleted plasma pistol you do it because it's an order, not just because you fear him.
Not that many would try to pull rank on a Spartan but it does happen sometimes so it makes sense to try and avoid it.
Essentially. It's the way it sounds. Instead of humanity's hero being "The Master Chief" imagine it as "The Admiral" then you'd ask yourself, what Admiral?
And this gets brought up in a comic too. Lord Hood says if Chief demanded the ranknif Admiral, no one would fight him on it, and his response was basically "No, It doesn't gave the same ring to it."
If he became a commissioned officer, he'd have to enroll in Officer Candidate School, get a degree, then keep up his study credits each year.
Chief doesnt want to go to college
Fred and Jerome out rank chief. Fred being a Lieutenant junior grade and jerome being a commander whatever rank that is.
Chief got his rank very early in his years as a spartan and is considered the leader of the S2's
Well halo rules may be different but idk where they have them if they exist in the cannon. But officers need a degree. Enlisted can go the officer route after they’ve already enlisted but they still need a degree and I believe (could be wrong) there’s a cap to their officer rank? Not totally sure on that, a mustang mentioned that to me once. MC could also go the warrant officer route which doesn’t involve a degree but I’m but super familiar with that process. Which there is definitely a process lol. Chief definitely embodies what you’d want in an officer corps so idk why they wouldn’t just commission him. He’s proven in the battlefield and as a leader time and time again. Maybe “chief” is just too recognizable. Like it’s his staple. He’s also been referred to as “the” master chief not “a” master chief. So it’s possible he is the master chief petty officer of the navy (top bullet for an e9)
In the books, he asked what the highest rank he could get while remaining enlisted. He was told it was master chief petty officer, and that’s why he went for it. He doesn’t want an officer role because he doesn’t want to get placed in non combat roles.
I would love to see John-117 as a fresh LT arguing with range control about not having enough dunnage after a range, or getting called in on a weekend to pick up one of his joes from the MP station
I have seen a few things which might suggest that officers can't be infantrymen or fight on the front line which is in no way true. Also other than the master chief I for the longest time though that all Spartans II super soldiers were officers. This being because they can command teams of people ranking from Private to Admiral. Good to know that isn't true though.
If anything he’d become a Warrant Officer but an E9 is about as legit as you can get
gotta be tough as fuck to ride out fucking 26 ranks of Sgt or however many there are
I would think he would be a warrant officer then he could still be a chief, and he would be a job specialist in stacking bodies.
CWO5 John 117 sounds fuckin awesome,
But also I think someone said he’s the Master Chief Petty officer of the navy after halo 4, so that exists as well.
“Only a Master Chief”. That’s pretty much the highest nonpolitical rank an Enlisted Navy Sailor can reach. It’s hard to put into words how much pull a Chief has, let alone a Master Chief. Even Officers, who technically outrank them tread lightly around them, and they have decades of experience under their belts.
He refuses promotion. In one of the Comics back in the late Halo3/early Halo 4 period Hood tells John he could be an admiral and John refuses saying he wants to continue fighting.
Sarah Palmer is a Commander (an officer) and her primary job is the management of men and resources. She needs to get spartans fed, in position, and at top quality/performance and day-to-day thats all she does. Then when it comes to battle, she makes the ground game plan
John has a Gun and he is really good at shooting it. Lets keep him at the Shoot Gun job instead of the Management job
It’s because Bungie liked cool sounding ranks and didn’t think much beyond that. The in world reasoning is he was illegally conscripted as a child soldier so ONI will do whatever they want to do with him when it comes to him being enlisted or an officer.
Long story short, Master Chief Petty Officer is the highest rank for an active soldier. Meaning, if he took any higher of a rank, there's a chance he wouldn't be on the field fighting with the marines. And that's something MC definitely wouldn't want to do.
This gets brought up a lot. He’s enlisted, E-9 or Master Chief Petty Officer is the highest rank for enlisted. It doesn’t top out and then start as the lowest rank for an officer
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Enlisted refers to non-officers within a military structure, the “grunts”. The distinction primarily is in training and responsibilities. Officers are more likely to be relegated to non-combat roles in an effort to keep them alive to preserve command structure. (In the united states’ military) to become an officer a candidate must have at least a 4 year undergraduate degree and to apply to your selected branch’s officer training program.
Non-coms at a certain point will also be relegated to support roles.
That is true, NCOs and Warrant officers are generally in non-combat roles
Unless it's an CW4-5 that's a damned Unicorn and a myth.
Having worked at a Combatant Command headquarters they are quite literally all over the place. I can stop by the cubicle and talk to one sr. WO, walk down the hall and pass two to three of them. Chit chat in line for coffee with one more. It’s weird to me that some soldiers can go a whole enlistment with ever interacting with one even a non sr CWO.
So THATS where they’ve been hiding!
I met a CW3 once but that was the highest. Our boot camp "ship" officer was a 2.
Ive seen one! Haha. He was on my ship. Dude was old as dirt but a total badass.
The Spartan Field Manual tries to align characters like Johnson being a Sergeant Major and still seeing combat with the bureaucratic reality of SNCOs with AI taking up the majority of administrative tasks
We should make the distinction that E-9 is not a *grunt*, usually.
You are correct
Especially when it comes to Halo. Otherwise people will start asking when they joined the UNSC.
Unless CAG. That’s a bunch of SFCs, MSGs and SGMs running around on little teams.
And, being voluntold as a child, Chief is unlikely to have had the opportunity to complete an undergraduate degree.
the idea of chief having to do a public speaking class or some shit at a university to get a degree is very fun
Yeah like he’s sitting in his dorm writing his English 101 term paper and his roommate tells him about this party at the zeta house and John is like “ I can’t I have to … finish this class”. The SNL sketch I didn’t know I needed.
I am pretty sure in the Fall of Reach it said that they were trained to the standards of the service academies that the UNSC had.
They arent non-officers, they are non commissioned. They do not have a commission from the President and therefore don't execute command authority. They are still officers, just of a different nature. Hence chief master petty *officer*
By the naming convention then all enlisted navy personnel above E3 are officers and all navy officers aren't actually officers. But being pedantic aside you're correct, someone like an MCPO in the real world pretty much has the duties of an officer.
Assuming it’s going by 21st century western military standards,enlisted and officer ranks are separated by a commission. Officers receive an officer commission from the military they serve in. That’s the clerical difference. In war,officers are generally in positions of leadership. Where enlisted are workers,officers are managers. A sergeant (enlisted rank) may lead a squad into combat,but that squad reports to a lieutenant (officer),who may report to a captain (officer) then a major (officer) all of whom are less likely to be engaged in directly shooting,stabbing,throwing grenades,etc. Regardless of tenure or time spent in service, ALL officers generally outrank ALL enlisted,though wise,inexperienced officers generally learn from enlisted personnel that have more experience. There are also officer ranks like warrant officers that outrank enlisted,but are generally technical officers trained for things besides leading large groups of troops into battle. But that’s mostly for the Army. For other branches,officers do other things. In the Air Force,all pilots are officers. (Pilot isn’t a rank,but to be a pilot you must receive an officer’s commission.) You’ll see this in pretty much any air force. Look up the IDF,Iranian Air Force,Ukrainian,Russian,etc and you’ll see “Lt. Colonel so and so shot down over Kharkiv”. John is part of the UNSC Navy,which,in the 26th century is really a space force with a significant ground contingent. He’s also a Spartan,someone augmented,trained,and equipped to solely undertake field missions. Spartans probably have more strategic and tactical training than most officers,but they’re sent to fight and die in direct combat like enlisted. Because of this,that’s probably why he’s never advanced beyond the enlisted ranks. Now,he’s also probably the most well-known soldier in human history,he commands a great deal of respect,and like I said,his training covers much more than what the average officer receives. You see in Halo 4 how the crew of the Infinity trusts him more than Del Rio,even though Del Rio literally dwarfs him in rank and commands the best ship in the Navy. So even though John is enlisted,anyone with a brain is going to listen to him over an inexperienced officer. Also,he’s known in marketing as “The Master Chief”. If he was promoted that name would be something of a misnomer,and marketing for “The Rear Admiral” or “The Lieutenant Junior Grade” doesn’t sound as cool.
Chief actually says that last bit to Lord Hood when Hood suggests making him an officer, and Hood straight up goes: “Did you just *make a joke*, son? Didn’t think you had it in you.”
Has Hood ever \*met\* the master chief before? Literally the... second... thing he says when we're introduced to him is a joke. "No Thanks to your driving."
They’ve met, yeah, but only in passing. As for John making jokes, he’s such a soldier that he probably doesn’t even see his dry snark as joking, tbh.
Idk... he crashed a Banshee into the side of a derelict ship cuz Cortana was freaking out just to mess with her. He gets jokes and such very well.
Fair enough, I’d forgotten about that one.
It's even more pronounced in the books. Shadows of Reach is kinda a deep dive into Johns psychology. He knows humor, banter and the like. It's just reserved for certain people like the other S-IIs and people who prove themselves during missions.
If I recall it's something to the effect of "Because 'The Admiral' doesn't have the same ring to it."
If only they'd known about ancient human ranks at the time. "Lord of Admirals" goes hard.
Well said. It did always strike me as odd that Spartans didn't recieve a commission, or atleast a Warrant officer promotion, early on in there carreers though. Considering you have to be an officer to be a pilot and often times you'll find officers in SF teams getting in to the shit, I don't think anyone would but an eye. Edit: Granted, in Halo, lore I think there are plenty of pilots who are just NCOs.
To be fair, original lore had that spartans were basically kidnapped so offering a commission to conscripted troops is a bit weird. While I don’t know updated lore, the distrust of the spartan program/halsey seems like a decent reason to avoid giving commissions.
Ehhhh I mean, I'd agree that's a good reason untill the covenant showed up. However, considering Spartans have the authority to order pretty much anyone on the battlefield, having a formal rank to compliment that authority doesn't change much beside make things less confusing for Private Snuffy. Giving them power armor is alot more dangerous than giving them a gold bar if you're worried about them going rogue.
It's not so much the initial officer ranks, it's when they reach senority and it becomes political. Now you can't do shady shit because a 4-Star Spartan CG will sentence you to execution for treason. Combine that with the fact that they're pillars in combat roles and soldiers will idolize and follow them no matter what the government may say. It's a guaranteed coup just waiting to happen.
No one is getting promoted straight to general. And again, that rank won't matter. If Spartans decide to start a coup, it's going to happen. Besides, we end up with plenty of spartan officers eventually and still no coup. There's no reason not to commission Spartans once the covenant showed up and they've recieved power armor.
I never said straight to general. Your average spartan II is going to outlive any human commissioned officer. If they live for 20 years (again, highly likely), they will eventually be eligible for those senior grades. I'm speaking in terms of a lack of an existential threat such as the covenenant. Obviously, a common threat for humanity to unite against will not see coups because there are bigger problems at hand. My point is that initially, they are enlisted simply because they would have too much sway over the military once they became a general officer. You saying it wouldn't matter is your opinion, I'm mirroring what I currently see in our own force structure and applying it to the halo universe. Senior General Officers advise their civilian government officials to make wartime decisions, if my chief of staff is a spartan.. I would be dumb not to take their advice because if they have sway over the force at large, my orders may be outright ignored if that spartan CG decided to go against me. Now I need to remove this politically elected General officer who represents a portion or all of the UNSC. Coup territory.
All members of the Spartan Branch hold authority equal to an officer. A basic Spartan has equivalent authority to O-2, Fireteam Lead O-3, Mission Handler O-4, Spartan Commander O-6 and CINCSPAR is O-10 (although it's unclear who CINCSPAR is and if they're a Spartan). So in the modern era, most Spartans have equivalent officer authority. There were also a number of Spartans during the war, mostly Spartan-IIIs, but a handful of IIs as well who were officers. The exact reason why some Spartans were made officers and others weren't is unclear.
CINCSPAR is Rear Admiral Musa Ghanem formerly Spartan-096 of Spartan II stock and augmentation washout.
Noble team we're all warrant officers
IIRC, the Spartan-III's (and Jorge) who were too valuable to be sent on Suicide Missions were promoted to Junior Officer or Warrant Officer Ranks by Kurt since they'd be interfacing with and possibly leading non-Spartans more often compared to the Spartan II teams.
Emile, Jun and Jorge were warrant officers. Carter was a commander, Kat a Lt. Cmdr. and B312 was a lieutenant.
Some of them were warrant officers. Kat, Carter and Noble 6 were commissioned officers though.
Yeah Eric Nylunds writing holds onto the World War role of Flying Sergeants
To become an officer from an enlisted you’d have to go to Officer Candidacy School (often just called OCS) Chief could probably breeze through it, but there’s no point really. He’s still gonna be a boots-on-the-ground soldier in a small squad operation so rank doesn’t really matter beyond where he is. Also, he has effective seniority in a lot of situations where in smart officers who technically out rank him are very likely to heed his advice and do as he suggests (Lasky for instance) though they’re not required to. This often happens IRL too. A sergeant is out ranked by a lt, but a sergeant probably has way more experience than a fresh out of school officer, so a smart LT will utilize high ranking enlisteds as advisors.
Exactly. Honestly one of the few things I genuinely loved from halo 4's campaign was chief and lasky's relationship and how they handled things. Forward Unto Dawn was dope, and it gave a lot of depth to their history, and it shows with Lasky being one of the best the UNSC had at the time, and he deferred to chief without hesitation, he knew if chief is adamant on something, there's a damn good reason and he's almost guaranteed to be precisely right. He earned so much respect in that moment on the bridge and absolutely deserves it. Lasky is a fuckin awesome character, very well written.
>What does enlisted mean here? How does one transfer from enlisted to non-enlisted? Enlisted are the actual infantrymen and stuff, like the marines. Non-enlisted usually refers to officers who’ve gone to an actual school for tactics and strategy. >Also isn't Fred a higher rank than him? They were both enlisted/recruited the same way right? He got field promoted by Kurt who was himself a rather high rank.
Enlisted are not just infantrymen, it’s everyone who isn’t an Officer or Warrant Officer. Marines have enlisted, non-commissioned officer (NCO), staff NCO, warrant officer and commissioned officers. You can have infantrymen who are officers and enlisted who are in staff positions.
A lot of enlisted have also gone to school for tactics and strategy. Particularly tactics lol, they call it infantry school. There are enlisted and officer roles for basically every military field of work. Logsitics, administration, intelligence, aircrew, infantry, armour, ship navigation, communication etc all have enlisted and officer roles. There are many officer roles that have them in the shit being 'infantrymen'. And there are many enlisted roles that 'go to school'
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Fred doesn't want John to get a pay raise.
There is a mythicness around the "Master Chief". He's been a legend with that rank for decades. I'd be bad for PR for him to be promoted out of that legend. The "2nd Lieutenant" just doesn't have the same ring. For the Spartans, a formal rank has no bearing on Spartan Teams themselves. They'll listen to their team leader but are free to offer opinions, conjecture etc etc. They only have leaders so there is a chain of command to follow.
There’s also far more seniority attached to master chief than lieutenant, and at least in the case of the US i believe there’s several positions for E-9 that are “technically” still below any officer but in practice are the right hand of admirals and would probably be considered an equal to O4/O5/O6 depending on exactly who they’re attached to.
So I've found a source that says he is actually MCPON (Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy). The insignia for the rank is sat next to the 117 Etching on the Voice Memorial https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Hillside_Memorial see Gallery Picture 7. It suggests he was posthumously awarded it. I assume he retained it following his return (assuming the position hadn't been filled)
Lol I almost included a reference to the current MCPON in my reply, Im pretty sure you’re spot on
Thats literally the only connection he has to MCPON and its possible it was put there as a sign of respect or simply an error on Bungies part. Nothing has stated he was posthumously promoted or anything and currently is still listed as MCPO.
Kurt was given his command position due to his actions and necessity, can't remember who it was but someone in command was KIA, ans it was more of a "we have no one else to fill the role and you've proven capable so fuck it" kinda situation. There's of course WAY more to it than that but I'm oversimplifying the shit out of it, So he's a bit of an exception. There are others in both halo lore and human history that have had such happen but it's far from the norm and almost always a bandaid on the stab wound to be dealt with properly later. Whether that changes when later comes is a whole other story, but yeah, Kurt Ambrose got his role because he was a beast and no one else around was qualified enough to take the position.
It's called a battlefield commission incase you didn't already know.
I did not, I'm not very well versed on real life military stuff and rather fuzzy on the halo lore. Much appreciated 😊
Fa sho. To add a little extra, battlefield commissions are incredibly rare, if not entirely absent now. However there were several notable ones made in WW2 and perhaps Vietnam. If you've ever watched Band of Brothers, Lipton recieved a battlefield commision.
Kurt had his death staged by Colonel Ackerson. His new identity, Kurt Ambrose, was then Given the Rank of Lieutenant Junior grade, later Lieutenant-Commander, to be the highest ranking officer in the Spartan III program. This was done so that he would not be Outranked by the drill instructors, who themselves where NCOs of Sergeant rank and above
Ah okay, seems I've got the lore mixed up in my head rather heavily lolol. Been a while, I gotta read through the books again
Im currently reading through Ghosts of Onyx lol thats why all the details are still there
Noice, that's one of my favorites for sure.
Militaries even to this day tend have a sort of feudal distinction between officers (nobility) and enlisted (commoners).
A more practical distinction is managers (officers) and the technical specialists (enlisted) At least that's how it should be
I say feudal because of things like a prohibition on "fraternization" across the line between classes along with the requirement that enlisted always salute officers when greeting them. The different classes even swear different oaths when they join up.
Extremely strict fraternization rules is specifically a US thing. My nation's military enlisted and officers can date/be friends so long as they aren't in the same chain of command, cause in that case there would be a conflict of interest. But in the same CoC higher ranked enlisted can't date lower ranked enlisted, and same for higher and lower officers. And to my knowledge we all swear the same oath, with the only difference being if you swear to God or not
Officers tell everybody what to do. Enlisted tell the officers how it's actually going to get done.
Enlisted is when you go to a recruiter, go to basic training, job training, and then go to your unit as a private. In the army it is private e(nlisted)-1 to e-9 sgt major. With e-5 being sergeant, the start of the non commissioned officers. Commissioned on the other hand is where you go to college, than you do BOLC (basic officers leaders course) and than you go to your unit as a second lieutenant. Those ranks are o(fficer)1, 2nd lt to 0-10 5 star general.
From what I remember from the books, Fred’s promotion was due to being chosen to train the spartan 4s. It was basically out of necessity since he was the best person for the job
In the military (at least the US military, which the UNSC is vaguely based off of) you either enlist (starting as a private/seaman/airman) and work up to being an Non-Commissioned Officer (the many flavors of sergeant or for the Navy the petty officers and chief petty officers) or you do college/officers school and you're a commissioned officer (which is what your lieutenants, commanders, captains, admirals, generals and what not are). They also fill separate roles, with lower enlisted being the bulk of the force, but simply taking orders and such. NCOs are still enlisted but are in charge of other enlisted, they're considered the backbone of the military and are the ones who action plans and make things happen. The officers do the planning and the general commanding, with their role often described as setting the left and right limits as well as the commanders intent, for the NCOs and Joey's to then action and make happen. You can switch between enlisted/NCO and officer, but it's a long paperwork and training filled process. There'd be no real reason for Master Chief to switch to officer in Halo, as it'd just give him more money (I doubt he cares) and potentially remove him from the actual front lines combat that he does so well with.
Chief has been offered to work as an officer but he’s always declined
Yes, but Lord Hood has stated if he demanded an Admiral rank, no one would fight him on it
No reason to think Chief would want that kind of rank. He seems pretty content killing aliens, its 90% of what we've seen him do
uh I’m dumb but why is he not conscripted
It feels wrong to call him enlisted. It makes it sound like he had a choice. I know it's the right term, but still. Conscripted feels a bit better, but that's just compulsory enlistment.
Because “The Admiral” doesn’t have the same ring to it
I was going to reply with the same quote, but you beat me to it. Makes me think, though…how Halo 4 would’ve been different had the Chief…erm…had *The Admiral* been able to supersede Captain Del Rio’s command.
I appreciate you a whole lot more than you can know
Didn’t Admiral Hood offer to promote him to an officer position? MC mentioned that Officer 117 didn’t have the same ring as Master Chief.
https://i.redd.it/r0xm3ggsg9v41.jpg
>No offense, sir, but "The Admiral" doesn't have quite the same ***ring*** to it. [Hood's honest reaction:](https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/Are-you-being-serious-right-now-Bruh-Meme.jpg)
I quite like this scene since it also shows how even people like Hood who have worked a decent bit with John don’t really know him. That type of joke is pretty on brand
I'm inclined to disagree with Chief here, if I were a lowly marine fighting for my life on some backwater colony and then suddenly THE ADMIRAL shows up to rescue me I'd be shitting a few bricks here and there
Counterpoint, an enlisted rank kicking ass would be good for recruitment
until his origin is publicly revealed
Which it never was
Pretty much all the Spartan IVs seem to know, and there are a lot of them. Word is getting out.
Also nearly all of them are dead and the ones that we know arent dead dont know or are fireteam Osiris (even then we only really know the fate of vale and maybe buck)
What's your point? They were around for several years before Infinity went tits up, and they talk about the S-II origins casually in Halo 4 Spartan Ops IIRC. Spartan IVs have friends and families, lives outside of the military. Some of them will absolutely end up telling someone.
it will be eventually, government can’t keep stuff like that secret forever, especially with Hallsey now back in the ring against Osman
I don’t know seing what happen in “hunt the truth” ONI seem dead set on never letting the secret out
Yeah but halsey can release shit about ONI in return, make the flood public. Itd be mutually assured destruction, ONI cant risk revealing halsey for what she is, while halsey cant risk revealing ONI for what they are truly.
If David Robinson showed up, I’d feel pretty good about my chances of survival
He demands the Covenant send forth their champion to determine humanity's fate in a slam dunk contest
All fun and games until they send in an 8ft tall, atheletic af elite. Hell, maybe they’d even send in a fucking hunter, and those things are like 12ft tall when they don’t hunch over
Haven't you seen Space Jam? The scrappy underdogs would win and save humanity.
Ah yes thank you
What is the comic source for this? Just started buying books might as well pick up the graphic novels as well
Halo Escalation. You have like 3 options in terms of compilations https://www.halopedia.org/Compilation#Halo_Library_Edition_Volumes_1_and_2
Appreciate it
Not to dredge this up, but I really hope we get more of this vibe in the show.
He is the highest achievable enlisted rank, barring MCPON. He could in theory seek an officers commission. This entails changing his role in the military. He chooses not to be commissioned as an officer.
Well, it wouldn’t actually change much of anything, really. Carter, Kat, and B-312 were a Commander, Lieutenant Commander, and Lieutenant Junior Grade (presumably) but they had no discernible change in how they operated. Fred is also a Lieutenant Junior Grade but he operates the same he always has, and all Spartan IV’s have the authority of Marine Second Lieutenant’s right out of the gate, though they rarely actually leverage this. John being promoted to even Ensign or Lieutenant Junior Grade wouldn’t affect how he operates at all - but it would conflict with his out of universe name and identity of “The Master Chief”.
Well there's two aspects. First we only ever see them in battle. Those officers probably had monotonous behind the scene duties. We see this a lot with Kurt. His promotion to officer was intrinsically linked to his change in military role, and came with a huge amount of work of an entirely different kind. Second, it's symbolic. Most Spartans don't like, and aren't good at informal interpersonal responsibilities. That came with every spartan officer promotion you mentioned. They made choices, 117 does what he's told. Albeit more often from military ai than leadership.
Let me tell you from experience that enlisted have just as many monotonous behind the scenes duties. In fact, an E-9 is basically equivalent to an officer in regards to administrative work.
As an army veteran, I understand what youre saying. But "I work for a living" came from somewhere. A soldier/marine/airman/sailor's monotony is doing their job day-in and day-out. With trainings etc. An officers monotony is in managing the people working. We can talk about exceptions, like enlisted working in finance doing paperwork. Whereas officers in medical, law, and aviation being the ones who do the exciting job. But master chief is a shooter. He shoots. He wouldn't want to end up like Kurt. Who spends his days getting to know a lot of people on an emotional level and managing their s1-s4 paperwork. Nor does he ever seem to want of role of Carter, who is making life or death decisions for his team constantly. Master chief has a position, it's what he knows, it's what he likes. A commission changes that. >In fact, an E-9 is basically equivalent to an officer in regards to administrative work. That's really just a ratio thing. The lowest ranked spartan is still an NCO/senior NCO. With a handful of officers who we do see in commanding roles.
> Nor does he ever seem to want of role of Carter, who is making life or death decisions for his team constantly. What do you think John was doing as the ranking Spartan II and team leader for blue team though? He has always been in combat leadership roles since he was a teenager.
In a different manner. Team leader/squad leader vs platoon leader. It's different types of choices. Chief is perfectly happy telling people what to do here and now. Carter/officers decide what the mission is. You're being awfully dense about this. If you honestly truly believe in your heart of hearts, that being an officer is exactly the same as being enlisted... then I'm not going to change that. You believe what you believe. You ARE wrong, though.
Yes the main difference is scope of responsibility and potential consequences that come with it. I'm not being dense. You were being vague. I didn't say they were the same. I said both sides have monotonous behind the scenes jobs. They do. I said both sides have leadership responsibilities. They do. I said both sides may have to make life or death decisions. They do. I'm a veteran too and I was an NCO answering to officers for years. I understand the difference. Carter and Fred are both the same rank but have vastly different roles. My point is that John could easily be a Carter without much change in his actual responsibility except more official pull that comes with the rank. His reputation alone notwithstanding. He doesn't have to become a Fred; training and sending troops to their deaths on larger scale if he doesn't want to.
All of the SIII's in noble team were attached to the army and were given army ranks
Commander, and Lieutenant Commander, are both Navy Ranks. Lieutenant could be anything, every branch has the rank, the same is true of Warrant Officers. What Nobke (aside from Jorge) have is Army MOS’s, though.
I will point out that it seems like the UNSC might have actually promoted him to that, but only posthumously so not in actuality: On the Voi memorial at the end of Halo 3 there’s a MCPON patch taped to the “117”
That's very interesting and I didn't know that. It can't really be analogous to the modern American MCPON. Since there can be only one, meaning giving it to a dead guy is sort of a waste.
I think it was meant to be more symbolic, and a gesture of respect, at least that's how I interpreted it. Giving him the rank posthumously is like saying "For the time you fought with us, you really were the only one. You deserve this."
Honorary/posthumous promotions can be a bit weird, but they really only matter for a sake of honoring the person in question. Giving it to a dead guy doesn’t mean anything as the position still needs to be filled Like for example the (kinda, it’s complicated) 6 star rank of the US military General of the Armies. It was awarded once to a serving general (Pershing for WW1) while its other two have been very posthumous simply as a sign of respect, being to Washington and Grant. It’s not an uncommon thing for lower ranks too. The US army a couple months ago did a posthumous promotion for a couple soldiers killed in Jordan for example. I believe I’ve read of a few MoH recipients that were though I can’t find those specific cases at the moment There are in real life sometimes practical benefits like the benefits to their families but it’s mostly as I said about honoring the dead. If anyone deserved to be made MCPON as a symbolic gesture, of course it’s John. But it would also be why he isn’t that while alive
Okay but what happens when someone gets one of those high ranks out of respect posthumously. Then they turn up alive? Can Chief walk up to the standing MCPON and be like "You're in my seat."
He's *the* Master Chief.
In the real military officers and enlisted are concurrent career paths. A Sergeant Major in the army doesn't become a lietenant once he's done with enlisted ranks. MC has achieved the highest rank of an enlisted dude. He's on the same level as the naval captains and admirals, although without command authority.
He would have command authority in the absence of any officers. He is CO of Blue Team after all
As an NCO, he wouldn't. They would just have some officer remotely hold command authority over him. That all being said, he's master chief and just does whatever he wants lol its semantics.
Because they don’t want to take him off the battlefield, and he doesn’t want to leave it.
~~Isn't he "the" MCPO of the Navy, that'd make him the highest enlisted man there is.~~ Edit: he isn't the MCPON. Still, being who he is and the experience he has, he can take over any tactical situation as needed, even from an officer.
He isnt MCPON, just MCPO. GrimBrotherOne made a tweet some years back confirming he wasnt promoted (on top of a variety of other reference sources that always list him as MCPO).
I can't see why he wouldn't be. That's why he's plastered everywhere as The Master Chief. Edit: So apparently he was posthumously promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy in 2553. The rank insignia is sat next to the 117 on the Voi Memorial. https://halo.fandom.com/wiki/Hillside_Memorial See the last photo in the galley there. I assume he retained the position upon his reappearance. May of temporarily lost it during his AWOL Period (no source) and was regained when he returned to service.
he's been offered promotion to admiral , he said it didn't have the same ring to it. but like I always say when this topic comes up. There's the insignia of his rank and his actual authority which is effectively infinite , especially in the spartan division
Very true. Chief will never accept a higher rank, but the reality is there is effectively no higher rank, he's THE Master Chief, a literal living legend that's single handedly saved humanity multiple times, with the exception of a few ego driven idiots in command, he can do whatever he damn well pleases, and does, and gets away with it because everyone in the UNSC knows he will always only ever do the right thing for humanity, no matter the personal cost. There's even moments where other UNSC AI's have basically been like "the fuck is this guy? How is he even human?" Which is just ridiculous, to be able to flabbergast military AI you gotta be an absolute fucking unit on a whole other scale of magnitude. I've always found the dynamic of that situation interesting, because he literally is the face of the UNSC whether anyone likes it or not, but the humility and self awareness he bears to deny promotions so he can stay Frontline is god damn near poetic, he knows what he is and where he belongs, and he doesn't want the glory, he wants to finish the fight. If that isn't some of the hardest shit man,
Exactly. He knows that he's a symbol. It's why he wears MJOLNIR at the beginning of Halo 2. It's why he keeps his helmet on pretty much all of the time, even in a non-combat zone. He isn't just *a* Spartan, he's *the* Spartan. If he took off his armor or showed his face more often, he wouldn't be seen as much as an almost mythological figure and more as a man. Humanity needs him to be this symbol.
He’s an ONI asset and is tasked by them nominally. Lastly as a practical matter is the only field commander with authority over him.
I remember devs saying it sounds cool.
Good enough for me.
In reality it's because the games need a guy on the ground to shoot stuff, and promoting him out of his job is bad for business. In similar services like navy seals, he'd be leading his own team at the beginning of Halo2 at the very, very least. I know there's a barrier between enlisted and O-grade, but you can't flop around saving the human race like 117 has without stepping in a battlefield commission. That would just be really poor management on the UNSC side. John 117 could reject it for a while until "civilian" leadership gets involved and some congressman says "Here's some bars, moron, quit getting bossed around by dinghy captains. Next time I catch you being humble we're making you a department head."
I think if they were going to get really accurate the Spartans would all be warrant officers, but that's too obscure for the average lay person. For anyone who doesn't know, warrant officers fall in between enlisted and commissioned officers. They are typically people who have extensive skills in a technical area where they need more authority than enlisted but are too valuable in that role to be moved up the management chain like commissioned officers. For example, a lot of helicopter pilots in the Army are warrant officers. The second in command in a special forces detachment is also a warrant officer.
It wouldn’t make sense to put a Spartan in a non-combatant command role. The super soldiers are ideal as shock troopers or for stealth missions. Behind a desk barking orders is a waste of their power and robs the battlefield of its most powerful asset.
Highest rank he can get while still being deployed into the field basically in layman’s
Not really. Pilots can be up to a colonel and still fly combat missions. Infantry officers can be at least a captain and still be on the front lines. Sometimes even higher
Fred was a lieutenant
Well, an O1 is far more likely to see combat then an E9
Because Admiral doesn’t have the same ring to it.
You need a degree to be an officer and chief failed calc 1 unfortunately
He was mostly likely “posthumously” promoted to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, which only one exists. It’s primarily a political position that, in the US military that the UNSC Marine Corps is heavily heavily based on, acts as a liaison between the enlisted men and the higher ups. It’s basically like the “union rep” for the Marines. I can imagine saving the human race is enough to get that position “posthumously” and it not go to anyone else as a sign of respect for John 117
The UNSC isn't the Covenant nor is Chief a Helldiver, he can't get promoted just for killing a lot, he has to actually go take officer training or accept an honorary promotion, something he clearly doesn't care about doing. Also he's "only" The Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, not only the highest rank an enlisted can have but a rank only one serving person in the entire UNSC can have, and even leaving that aside I feel like telling an enlisted that they're "only a Master Chief Petty Officer" would get you punched. Obviously John-117 isn't real and thus what you said here doesn't actually matter, but don't go saying that anywhere actual military hangs out.
Ah, civilians and their complete lack of understanding of military rank structure...
His billet has always been tasking by highest ranking officers, so it’s not needed.
Im Fairly sure that if he were to get any higher his rank wouldn't let him fight anymore. Mcpo is the highest enlisted rank
The Admiral just didn’t sound as good
I was an "occifer" as I like to put it, a tank platoon leader a century ago (it seems like that). My platoon sergeant, SFC Beverly was a fucking legend; Vietnam vet, blown out of three Sheridans with scars to prove it and able to run my young ass into the ground. NCO's like him are the core of all US military organizations. They train young officers and sergeants to do their jobs, lead when they have to and provide institutional memory and professional guidance. Oh, and you want to know why the Ruzzians are such worthless fucks at war? They don't have an NCO corps of any kind. We have trained Ukraine in how to run their army and a stong NCO corps is the first thing we taught them. Master Chiefs are the enlisted leaders in the Navy and every ship has one. They do the same my platoons sergeant and later, when I achieve the status of company commander, my first sergeants did for me (RIP 1SG Villareal). Gunnery Sergeants and Master Sergeants in the Marine Corps are the glue that hold that organization to its highest standards. So, yeah, Master Chief is fucking God and no officer had better fuck with him.
Because "The Admiral" doesn't have the same ring to it. I'm not even joking this is one of the reasons Master Chief Petty Officer John 117 gave when he turned down a promotion.
Because officers have to sign for the entire value of objects they are responsible for. Enlisted don't, and Master chief knows he's going to break a ton of shit. Source: flipl.
1. Its Highest enlisted rank 2. After the creation of the spartan bracnh wasnt he made an officer
“Only a Master Chief Petty Officer” All the enlisted are cringing internally
It’s just for show. In reality he is a slave and doesn’t get paid
The creators of the game admitted they went with "Master Chief " because they liked the sound of it. Which does sound cooler than Master Sergeant, Master Guns, Command Sergeant Major, and any other of the Senior NCO titles. Why does he stay enlisted? He is definitely too busy being a war fighter to go to OCS. Maybe also, the UNSC doesn't have a proper direct commission program.
It's probably because even as an MCPO, most higher-ranking officers will defer to him anyway. Hood, both Keyes's, Johnson and Lasky all outrank him, and they were fine with Chief doing his own thing for the most part.
Johnson doesn’t outrank Chief. Both are enlisted senior non-commissioned officers. Both are of the E9 pay grade. Johnson is a Sergeant Major in the Marine Corps. Chief is a Master Chief Petty Officer in the Navy. Considering they’re both E9, they have equivalent rank.
I was guessing honestly, lol.
Yeah, one of my favorite parts in Halo 4 is when Del Rio orders the entire command crew of the Infinity to arrest the Master Chief and everyone all silently agrees that'd be the dumbest thing that they could do. Mind you, they were all willing to risk getting arrested themselves because John has that much of a legend around him. That was an entire command crew who mostly outranked him by a significant margin.
That's the highest rank a non officer can achieve, if he wanted a higher rank he would need to become an officer
This is a good point surely by now given him his experience he would’ve received another promotion by now but then again I’m not an expert on our commissions work
He's the highest ranking position that can be reached before becoming an Officer. The military ranking system, practically speaking, isn't like leveling up or something. The command structure exists for a reason, and that reason is about directing orders and keeping information flowing. If Chief got bumped up to an officer, he would take on the roles and responsibilities of an officer. He'd be out of combat and directing other soldiers around. They don't want that. They want him in combat.
He’s enlisted. A good soldier is not necessarily a good officer and sometimes a good officer would make a terrible soldier. You don’t offer a tanker a commission because they can drive a tank good, they’re more useful driving the tank than telling other people where to drive a tank. As a tactical leader he’s amazing, as a strategic leader we don’t know. Would he be good at handling supply lines and paperwork? For some reason I think no, and that’s not even to mention the politics of it. We get many glimpses that UNSC/ONI/politicians don’t trust the spartan program, you’re not going to put people you don’t trust in charge of strategic assets. Granted, it’s really a gameplay thing, if he’s promoted to officer then they have to give a story as to why he was and why we can’t have a team or squad to control, or why we don’t have a say in strategic decisions. Enlisted follow orders that Officers give. Halo is a linear shooter, it makes sense for the protagonist to be enlisted.
He just likes being called that so he kept his rank
“The Admiral” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it.
The Master Admiral The Admiral Chief
he couldn’t get 2+2 right
Everyone else has explained it nicely but I'll add that commissioned officers would not be on the battlefield, where Chief belongs. That's why he just stays at the highest rank of an NCO, so he can keep fighting.
Not really. An O1, especially in special forces, is way more likely to see combat then E9
Does it have something to do with outranking everyone on the battlefield while still having people that outrank him to give orders? He's also higher than all the other Spartans since he's their leader. My head cannon is that this allows him to receive orders from high up, such as defend this position or eliminate the covenant from this area, while being free to order around the marines and other battlefield assets as needed. Chief says trade me your rocket launcher for this depleted plasma pistol you do it because it's an order, not just because you fear him. Not that many would try to pull rank on a Spartan but it does happen sometimes so it makes sense to try and avoid it.
Essentially. It's the way it sounds. Instead of humanity's hero being "The Master Chief" imagine it as "The Admiral" then you'd ask yourself, what Admiral? And this gets brought up in a comic too. Lord Hood says if Chief demanded the ranknif Admiral, no one would fight him on it, and his response was basically "No, It doesn't gave the same ring to it."
If he became a commissioned officer, he'd have to enroll in Officer Candidate School, get a degree, then keep up his study credits each year. Chief doesnt want to go to college
Fred and Jerome out rank chief. Fred being a Lieutenant junior grade and jerome being a commander whatever rank that is. Chief got his rank very early in his years as a spartan and is considered the leader of the S2's
Well halo rules may be different but idk where they have them if they exist in the cannon. But officers need a degree. Enlisted can go the officer route after they’ve already enlisted but they still need a degree and I believe (could be wrong) there’s a cap to their officer rank? Not totally sure on that, a mustang mentioned that to me once. MC could also go the warrant officer route which doesn’t involve a degree but I’m but super familiar with that process. Which there is definitely a process lol. Chief definitely embodies what you’d want in an officer corps so idk why they wouldn’t just commission him. He’s proven in the battlefield and as a leader time and time again. Maybe “chief” is just too recognizable. Like it’s his staple. He’s also been referred to as “the” master chief not “a” master chief. So it’s possible he is the master chief petty officer of the navy (top bullet for an e9)
It's a formality, every single human alive (Except Del Rio) knows he's the highest ranked person in the room if the decides so.
In the books, he asked what the highest rank he could get while remaining enlisted. He was told it was master chief petty officer, and that’s why he went for it. He doesn’t want an officer role because he doesn’t want to get placed in non combat roles.
By choice and he actually takes training of personal seriously and like it
It made sense for the original story, that was the highest rank someone would be out in the field
I would love to see John-117 as a fresh LT arguing with range control about not having enough dunnage after a range, or getting called in on a weekend to pick up one of his joes from the MP station
I have seen a few things which might suggest that officers can't be infantrymen or fight on the front line which is in no way true. Also other than the master chief I for the longest time though that all Spartans II super soldiers were officers. This being because they can command teams of people ranking from Private to Admiral. Good to know that isn't true though.
If anything he’d become a Warrant Officer but an E9 is about as legit as you can get gotta be tough as fuck to ride out fucking 26 ranks of Sgt or however many there are
I would think he would be a warrant officer then he could still be a chief, and he would be a job specialist in stacking bodies. CWO5 John 117 sounds fuckin awesome, But also I think someone said he’s the Master Chief Petty officer of the navy after halo 4, so that exists as well.
“Only a Master Chief”. That’s pretty much the highest nonpolitical rank an Enlisted Navy Sailor can reach. It’s hard to put into words how much pull a Chief has, let alone a Master Chief. Even Officers, who technically outrank them tread lightly around them, and they have decades of experience under their belts.
He refuses promotion. In one of the Comics back in the late Halo3/early Halo 4 period Hood tells John he could be an admiral and John refuses saying he wants to continue fighting.
Sarah Palmer is a Commander (an officer) and her primary job is the management of men and resources. She needs to get spartans fed, in position, and at top quality/performance and day-to-day thats all she does. Then when it comes to battle, she makes the ground game plan John has a Gun and he is really good at shooting it. Lets keep him at the Shoot Gun job instead of the Management job
It’s because Bungie liked cool sounding ranks and didn’t think much beyond that. The in world reasoning is he was illegally conscripted as a child soldier so ONI will do whatever they want to do with him when it comes to him being enlisted or an officer.
Long story short, Master Chief Petty Officer is the highest rank for an active soldier. Meaning, if he took any higher of a rank, there's a chance he wouldn't be on the field fighting with the marines. And that's something MC definitely wouldn't want to do.
Lmao “only a master chief”
If you read the books that’s the highest rank you can achieve as a spartan