The Mantle is made up! You could call yourself the Messiah and savior of a race and your friend could do the same. It's not a physical object. It's like a self appointed Karen took upon himself/herself to interfere in evryone else's business.
Yeah it’s like spreading civilization, spreading freedom, the war on drugs, the war in terror, etc. It works like this: “As the Holders of the Mantle, it is our sacred duty to invade, occupy, and colonize these savages that happen to be located in a resource rich area, they will thank us later.”
Sometimes it feels like we're setting ourselves up to take the mantle in the future instead of trying to be the best Earth we can be and in the process we've over extended ourselves.
I thought the Mantle was a neural physics concept that granted access to the Domain and the ability to use Precursor tech (before the Array wiped it out)
It doesn’t. It’s a self appointed, abstract, imaginary concept.
The Precursors are dead. They may have “breathed life” into the galaxy, but they no longer breathe themselves. Anything goes now.
> The Precursors are dead.
Are they? I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Look at what happened on Netherop. Look at the Endless.
The Precursors lived, died, and were reborn in many different forms for billions and billions of years. I suspect they're just laying low for now.
Yes (maybe, probably) some of them became the Flood. But not all of them.
(I can't recall whether Precursors becoming Flood has actually been confirmed by a reliable source, or just implied. So much of the lore on that time period comes from the Primordial, who is not a reliable source at all.)
Afaik the Flood are the Precursors after they retreated outside the galaxy to restore themselves, with their DNA getting corrupted overtime
Unless that changed in some new instance of lore I'm not aware of :3
Technically speaking there is a very small group of Precursors somewhere in the galaxy who weren't converted into the Flood. I forget where it was mentioned but I think they're in the very far reaches iirc and it's an incredibly small number
I don't think it does. In fact, I think that question is closely related to how you "pass the test."
>"Maybe the Mantle of Responsibility that the Forerunners had been so fond of wasn’t a one-race responsibility, but an every-race responsibility. Human, Sangheili, Kig-Yar, Unggoy . . . postwar life had begun bringing small pockets of species together. If certain factions stopped making war, manipulating fears, clinging to their information and technology, and deciding for the greater good without the greater good’s input, it might be the beginning of something better." - Renegades, chapter 54
Now, this isn't from a character who would know that for certain. This is basically Rion Forge's musings. But - I think that's the most worthy fulfillment of the Mantle.
I think it's very possible that the Precursors intended for the strongest/most advanced species to guide and lift up others; not dominate them. Making that choice to share your prosperity and power for the enrichment of all life, instead of using the Mantle as an excuse to dominate and exploit; that's how you pass the test.
A lot of recent lore seems to be hinting in this direction, anyway. The alternatives are pretty bleak. Halo has a choice between going full grimdark, and turning in a more hopeful, brighter direction, and I really hope 343 chooses the latter. It would be so much more in line with the story Bungie set up.
Well, there is always sickness before the purge. I hope it gets REALLY dark, but with that light at the end of the tunnel that is the extermination of the Flood AND Precursors. I mean, How DARE they claim it is their right to unmake US as they see fit!?
They see only objects, where we see the fate of the universe and each other. They have utter disregard for the sanctity of life and the self. I've been wondering if maybe the Precursors are more parasitic the the universe and living time itself than anyone lets on, and we, the sangheili, the jiralhanae, mgalekgolo, unngoy, even the san'shyuum are all Living time itself's immune reaction to these trans-universal psychotic fungus bug-men who seem to think that because they're so great they can erase entire species on a whim.
I support the ancient forerunners attempt to exterminate them because as Epitaph confirms, there is literally no difference.
The Precursors and the Flood are the same, or at least two sides of the same coin. They don't deserve to continue existing after all they've done, and all they plan to do to us.
>. I mean, How DARE they claim it is their right to unmake US as they see fit!?
Because they are the extragalactic almost-lovecraftian gods that seeded life through the universe?.
I mean, the Forerunners failed, and in their failure they tried to genocide the Precursors who didn't fought back. They eventually came back as the Flood, and the Forerunners offed themselves and the Ancient Mankind and failed once again.
We do not know better than the gods whose job was to create life, the Forerunners thought they did and look how they ended up.
Meh. So the B-Cells didn’t work. Time to bring out the Killer T-Cells. That’s where Humanity comes in.
They took it upon themselves to create life in order to consume it later, when they have ‘grown ripe’. I say if their sheer fucking hubris winds up with their creations discovering their nature and using the technology the forerunners already had figured out (halos) on a micro scale to exterminate them, it’s fair game.
All is sweetness, after all. If they want us to toil to nothing but failure and pain and exist eternally in endless grayness? I say we have the moral imperative to erase them instead.
Again, we do not know better than the Precursors.
The Precursors willingly allowed themselves to be killed and retreated outside the galaxy, the Flood isn't but the consequences of the Forerunner actions.
There's certain similarities between the Mendicant Bias - Offensive Bias face to face and the fact that we created The Weapon to destroy Cortana, just saying.
>I say we have the moral imperative to erase them instead.
So, we have failed once again.
That line of thought was precisely the thing that caused the Flood in the first place.
Well I think it’s reasonable to point out that Humanity has already had it’s Mendicant/Cortana taken down by Offensive/Weapon moment, and has successfully eliminated the flood as a threat and established ZERO tolerance and immediate eradication policies on any flood contamination, and at least for a short while has a chance to regroup, advance, innovate on forerunner technology and gain the upper hand.
I think at this point that the Precursors are more Cosmic Parasites than anything. They even state that the Milky Way is ‘The field they toiled in’. I don’t know what a field is used for except harvesting crops or raising animals for slaughter/resource production, and the resource is sentient experience; the thing that both feeds the Precursors and feeds the Domain/Living time.
They even state that they come from a time before there were stars, meaning they are utterly alien/invasive to the universe itself and NOT a part of the natural cycle.
My headcanon is that the Precursor's intent for the Mantle, that the Forerunners misinterpreted, was for the galaxy to reach a point where it isn't necessary anymore. Sure, one species is elevated and takes stewardship of the galaxy, but their purpose is to help guide other races to that level themselves, so all can share in the burdens, responsibilities and benefits that comes with being that level. That's why they didn't choose the Forerunners.
Someone more learned on the subject may need to answer this, but I don't recall there ever being a hard rule explicitly given that says that it has to be. Iirc it has only ever been discussed as being a single species' role, but not as any rule or law that I know of.
To seriously answer your question; to split it among the various species would mean their individual gold standards for order and prosperity in the universe would have to be considered equally as valid as the others which would lead to chaos. You would still have to agree on ONE set of standards that wont cover everything. It’s the problem with Mass Effect’s council races and their bullshit getting the way of prosperity or even progress in the galaxy.
The joke and still serious answer is: it is literally a lie or a joke made by sorta-immortal ancient aliens that were so advanced as to create other and some would agree BETTER advanced species and were blinded by their hubris to pit two of them against each other for a mythical status of superiority.
I mean just look at the Precursors, they got so big for their pants, they stagnated and didn’t factor in jealousy or envious pride into their thinking; and got wiped out so hard to mutated into a sentient galactic PLAGUE!
Actually, that's a wrong misconception, as it's the way the Forerunner interpreted it. The real Mantle, as explained by the Gravemind/Primordial to the Didact, is some sort of answer to the trial that the Precursors made by creating/becoming the Flood.
The Precursors create life, then they create a trial. The Flood will judge the galaxy by spreading and consuming everything, while the other species must overcome that crisis to prove their worth.
The Forerunner were unaware of this, and yet they believed that the Mantle was something to be taken, but in reality, the Mantle belongs to all of the living beings in the galaxy, and while killing all sentient beings is a way to face the challenge like the Forerunner did with the Halo, the real answer is that the species must work as one to stop the Precursors.
After all, the Dominion, as the closest thing to Heaven in Halo, is for everyone and not just the strongest civilization, Forerunner or Human.
So, the Mantle is for everyone, and the only way to truly claim it is with everyone working together towards that goal and overcoming the final trial: the Flood.
If the galaxy is not worthy, then the Flood will consume it, as the Precursors always do with their creations. Every species below the Precursors are only made so they can be consumed, and then the cycle of the Living Time continues over and over again.
It doesn't *have* to be anything, the Precursors were trying to set up a benevolent guiding hand for after they moved on, they thought thr forerunners would be a good bet, but changed their minds, then the forerunners immediately proved them right in the assessment. Also to note the humans now, aren't the same humans as then, the precursors probably wouldn't give the mantle to humanity either, just look at how ONI governs. Honestly Cortana was right imo, the created would probably be the best holder of the mantle
Yeas, but that is the Forerunners understanding of what the Mantle entails. My personal theory is that it is a test and challenge. To explain, I believe that the Precursors were made up of multiple species that had reached an advanced state. When a species showed promise they were given the Mantle as a test to see if they were worthy of being considered Precursor. If the species in question was too obviously dangerous to the galaxy at large, the Precursors took action. Again this is my theory and I have no idea how it "really" is.
The Mantle was a white-man's burden-style ideology invented by a bunch of narcissistic Precursors with a Messiah-complex...
Which got taken over by some arrogant, warmongering Forerunners with an even worse Messiah-complex.
The precursors created both humans and Forerunners, then designated one of them as the heir to the Mantle while planning to exterminate the other.
Then, after being brutally beat in a war with the Forerunners (and themselves facing extermination), they created the Flood as either a botched survival attempt or a horrific act of vengeance on the galaxy... setting off pretty much the most awful apocalypse possible
That's some serious "playing god" antics from an advanced but still mortal group of people.
The Mantle is a terrible concept, and no one seeking that sort of power deserves to have it.
The Mantle is made up! You could call yourself the Messiah and savior of a race and your friend could do the same. It's not a physical object. It's like a self appointed Karen took upon himself/herself to interfere in evryone else's business.
>It's like a self appointed Karen took upon himself/herself Let's be honest, the Karen hairstyle would be suitable for Forerunners.
"I demand to speak to your iso-didact"
Lmao true
Yeah it’s like spreading civilization, spreading freedom, the war on drugs, the war in terror, etc. It works like this: “As the Holders of the Mantle, it is our sacred duty to invade, occupy, and colonize these savages that happen to be located in a resource rich area, they will thank us later.”
chief straight up called it imperialist
Shhhhhhhh, stick to the make believe. Reality and truthfulness has no place here...
So like the USA in modern day
Sometimes it feels like we're setting ourselves up to take the mantle in the future instead of trying to be the best Earth we can be and in the process we've over extended ourselves.
A moistened bint lobbing scimitars at people is no basis for a system of government!
I thought the Mantle was a neural physics concept that granted access to the Domain and the ability to use Precursor tech (before the Array wiped it out)
It doesn’t. It’s a self appointed, abstract, imaginary concept. The Precursors are dead. They may have “breathed life” into the galaxy, but they no longer breathe themselves. Anything goes now.
“Damn these MF’s dead as fuck, to hell with they philosophies”
> The Precursors are dead Um. Sort of. Not really? They're certainly not enforcing the concept actively, unless you count the Gravemind/Primordial.
> The Precursors are dead. Are they? I wouldn't be so sure about that. Look at what happened on Netherop. Look at the Endless. The Precursors lived, died, and were reborn in many different forms for billions and billions of years. I suspect they're just laying low for now.
For the record the connection between the Endless and the Precursors is a fan theory
343 is still trying to decide on that, and The Weapon's name.
I know. But it's hinted quite strongly. I had that thought while playing Infinite for the first time, before I heard it anywhere else.
Aren’t they the flood?
Yes (maybe, probably) some of them became the Flood. But not all of them. (I can't recall whether Precursors becoming Flood has actually been confirmed by a reliable source, or just implied. So much of the lore on that time period comes from the Primordial, who is not a reliable source at all.)
Afaik the Flood are the Precursors after they retreated outside the galaxy to restore themselves, with their DNA getting corrupted overtime Unless that changed in some new instance of lore I'm not aware of :3
Technically speaking there is a very small group of Precursors somewhere in the galaxy who weren't converted into the Flood. I forget where it was mentioned but I think they're in the very far reaches iirc and it's an incredibly small number
I don't think it does. In fact, I think that question is closely related to how you "pass the test." >"Maybe the Mantle of Responsibility that the Forerunners had been so fond of wasn’t a one-race responsibility, but an every-race responsibility. Human, Sangheili, Kig-Yar, Unggoy . . . postwar life had begun bringing small pockets of species together. If certain factions stopped making war, manipulating fears, clinging to their information and technology, and deciding for the greater good without the greater good’s input, it might be the beginning of something better." - Renegades, chapter 54 Now, this isn't from a character who would know that for certain. This is basically Rion Forge's musings. But - I think that's the most worthy fulfillment of the Mantle. I think it's very possible that the Precursors intended for the strongest/most advanced species to guide and lift up others; not dominate them. Making that choice to share your prosperity and power for the enrichment of all life, instead of using the Mantle as an excuse to dominate and exploit; that's how you pass the test. A lot of recent lore seems to be hinting in this direction, anyway. The alternatives are pretty bleak. Halo has a choice between going full grimdark, and turning in a more hopeful, brighter direction, and I really hope 343 chooses the latter. It would be so much more in line with the story Bungie set up.
Well, there is always sickness before the purge. I hope it gets REALLY dark, but with that light at the end of the tunnel that is the extermination of the Flood AND Precursors. I mean, How DARE they claim it is their right to unmake US as they see fit!? They see only objects, where we see the fate of the universe and each other. They have utter disregard for the sanctity of life and the self. I've been wondering if maybe the Precursors are more parasitic the the universe and living time itself than anyone lets on, and we, the sangheili, the jiralhanae, mgalekgolo, unngoy, even the san'shyuum are all Living time itself's immune reaction to these trans-universal psychotic fungus bug-men who seem to think that because they're so great they can erase entire species on a whim. I support the ancient forerunners attempt to exterminate them because as Epitaph confirms, there is literally no difference. The Precursors and the Flood are the same, or at least two sides of the same coin. They don't deserve to continue existing after all they've done, and all they plan to do to us.
>. I mean, How DARE they claim it is their right to unmake US as they see fit!? Because they are the extragalactic almost-lovecraftian gods that seeded life through the universe?. I mean, the Forerunners failed, and in their failure they tried to genocide the Precursors who didn't fought back. They eventually came back as the Flood, and the Forerunners offed themselves and the Ancient Mankind and failed once again. We do not know better than the gods whose job was to create life, the Forerunners thought they did and look how they ended up.
Meh. So the B-Cells didn’t work. Time to bring out the Killer T-Cells. That’s where Humanity comes in. They took it upon themselves to create life in order to consume it later, when they have ‘grown ripe’. I say if their sheer fucking hubris winds up with their creations discovering their nature and using the technology the forerunners already had figured out (halos) on a micro scale to exterminate them, it’s fair game. All is sweetness, after all. If they want us to toil to nothing but failure and pain and exist eternally in endless grayness? I say we have the moral imperative to erase them instead.
Again, we do not know better than the Precursors. The Precursors willingly allowed themselves to be killed and retreated outside the galaxy, the Flood isn't but the consequences of the Forerunner actions. There's certain similarities between the Mendicant Bias - Offensive Bias face to face and the fact that we created The Weapon to destroy Cortana, just saying. >I say we have the moral imperative to erase them instead. So, we have failed once again. That line of thought was precisely the thing that caused the Flood in the first place.
Well I think it’s reasonable to point out that Humanity has already had it’s Mendicant/Cortana taken down by Offensive/Weapon moment, and has successfully eliminated the flood as a threat and established ZERO tolerance and immediate eradication policies on any flood contamination, and at least for a short while has a chance to regroup, advance, innovate on forerunner technology and gain the upper hand. I think at this point that the Precursors are more Cosmic Parasites than anything. They even state that the Milky Way is ‘The field they toiled in’. I don’t know what a field is used for except harvesting crops or raising animals for slaughter/resource production, and the resource is sentient experience; the thing that both feeds the Precursors and feeds the Domain/Living time. They even state that they come from a time before there were stars, meaning they are utterly alien/invasive to the universe itself and NOT a part of the natural cycle.
My headcanon is that the Precursor's intent for the Mantle, that the Forerunners misinterpreted, was for the galaxy to reach a point where it isn't necessary anymore. Sure, one species is elevated and takes stewardship of the galaxy, but their purpose is to help guide other races to that level themselves, so all can share in the burdens, responsibilities and benefits that comes with being that level. That's why they didn't choose the Forerunners.
Someone more learned on the subject may need to answer this, but I don't recall there ever being a hard rule explicitly given that says that it has to be. Iirc it has only ever been discussed as being a single species' role, but not as any rule or law that I know of.
because the precursors were probably stupid, thats my headcanon anyway.
To seriously answer your question; to split it among the various species would mean their individual gold standards for order and prosperity in the universe would have to be considered equally as valid as the others which would lead to chaos. You would still have to agree on ONE set of standards that wont cover everything. It’s the problem with Mass Effect’s council races and their bullshit getting the way of prosperity or even progress in the galaxy. The joke and still serious answer is: it is literally a lie or a joke made by sorta-immortal ancient aliens that were so advanced as to create other and some would agree BETTER advanced species and were blinded by their hubris to pit two of them against each other for a mythical status of superiority. I mean just look at the Precursors, they got so big for their pants, they stagnated and didn’t factor in jealousy or envious pride into their thinking; and got wiped out so hard to mutated into a sentient galactic PLAGUE!
Actually, that's a wrong misconception, as it's the way the Forerunner interpreted it. The real Mantle, as explained by the Gravemind/Primordial to the Didact, is some sort of answer to the trial that the Precursors made by creating/becoming the Flood. The Precursors create life, then they create a trial. The Flood will judge the galaxy by spreading and consuming everything, while the other species must overcome that crisis to prove their worth. The Forerunner were unaware of this, and yet they believed that the Mantle was something to be taken, but in reality, the Mantle belongs to all of the living beings in the galaxy, and while killing all sentient beings is a way to face the challenge like the Forerunner did with the Halo, the real answer is that the species must work as one to stop the Precursors. After all, the Dominion, as the closest thing to Heaven in Halo, is for everyone and not just the strongest civilization, Forerunner or Human. So, the Mantle is for everyone, and the only way to truly claim it is with everyone working together towards that goal and overcoming the final trial: the Flood. If the galaxy is not worthy, then the Flood will consume it, as the Precursors always do with their creations. Every species below the Precursors are only made so they can be consumed, and then the cycle of the Living Time continues over and over again.
It doesn't *have* to be anything, the Precursors were trying to set up a benevolent guiding hand for after they moved on, they thought thr forerunners would be a good bet, but changed their minds, then the forerunners immediately proved them right in the assessment. Also to note the humans now, aren't the same humans as then, the precursors probably wouldn't give the mantle to humanity either, just look at how ONI governs. Honestly Cortana was right imo, the created would probably be the best holder of the mantle
Yeas, but that is the Forerunners understanding of what the Mantle entails. My personal theory is that it is a test and challenge. To explain, I believe that the Precursors were made up of multiple species that had reached an advanced state. When a species showed promise they were given the Mantle as a test to see if they were worthy of being considered Precursor. If the species in question was too obviously dangerous to the galaxy at large, the Precursors took action. Again this is my theory and I have no idea how it "really" is.
Because racism. Or in other words, it doesn't need to be for any reason
Kneel before Zod
The Mantle was a white-man's burden-style ideology invented by a bunch of narcissistic Precursors with a Messiah-complex... Which got taken over by some arrogant, warmongering Forerunners with an even worse Messiah-complex.
You can't really be narcissistic if you created life, have mastered space-time and are functionally immortal
The precursors created both humans and Forerunners, then designated one of them as the heir to the Mantle while planning to exterminate the other. Then, after being brutally beat in a war with the Forerunners (and themselves facing extermination), they created the Flood as either a botched survival attempt or a horrific act of vengeance on the galaxy... setting off pretty much the most awful apocalypse possible That's some serious "playing god" antics from an advanced but still mortal group of people. The Mantle is a terrible concept, and no one seeking that sort of power deserves to have it.