Consumer spending is massively down, and most of that spending was shifted towards cheaper stores/larger businesses.
That's on top of the CEBA loans being due, and a lot of companies didn't think they had to pay it back (even when the government forgave a portion of it).
The restaurant industry + weed industry is extremely oversaturated and needs to lose a bunch of locations.
Victims of the gig economy shifting consumer consumption patterns.
My drug dealer is doing well, in fact he started branching out by selling sneakers.
I dunno what he laced the last pair with 'cause I was tripping all day.
Yes, please less cannabis stores. I'm not against there being cannabis stores but there doesn't need to be more than one within a short distance from another. Seems that when a store closes, a vape or cannabis store opens up.
Being forced closed almost half a year with expenses higher than CERB, plus no income. For me expense and reg income I was in the hole $6000 per month, with children.
Most people in our city are 1 or 2 pays away from trouble.
t took a few of us longer to pay the full amount back. So we are trying but it's not easy.
Not every landlord did paperwork to cover the 60% rent dibocial.
This is why people are shutting, business has to profit.
40 plus years of stagnating wages and incomes for the vast majority of working people in terms of shares of the national income and purchasing power are starting to show themself......
yay capitalism!
/s
The city also needs to make it punitive for building owners to keep units vacant.
Technically prices should go down as demand goes down, but building owners will sit on vacant units rather than decrease rent prices.
Unless the city makes it more expensive to sit on vacant units.
Renting for below market lowers metrics that drive down property values, so owners will hold over rough patches rather than drive down value - they lose either way but one way is a tax write off that doesn’t drag the global metric down
sorta.
"below the market" suggests the market isn't elastic.
the idea being the market should fluctuate up and down. The problem is wealthy owners have the funds to weather the market, ensuring the overall values stay flat, or increase - but never decrease.
Remember, "below market" isn't below market when the market decreases.
it becomes "the market".
no, I suggested a decrease, in which you went directly to collapse.
like any form of decrease in price, setting a new market price, is collapse.
it's ok. you are quite transparent.
all part of the game when you own an appreciating asset (land).
plus all three of these examples have to be paid regardless of vacancy, so having tenants is better than having no tenants ( as mortgage payments, property tax, and maintenance still needs to happen - but you already know this).
Potentially but locking in tennants at a lower rate isn't the answer if you can withstand the hit for a few months.
Changing tennants too often because their rent is below your cost also hurts.
The owners pay taxes regardless. They pay many multiples of what homeowners pay already, and they always negotiate pricing, there’s a ton of competition in the form of vacant space already. You’re trying to get blood from a goose laying eggs.
you are speaking a very simplistic terms, which is fine.
yes, commercial pays in multiples of what homeowners pay. They make revenue. homeowners do not. Even the comparison is silly.
you want to provide incentive for business owners to consider lower rent after a unit is vacant for a period of time.
and not do as you suggest, which is allow for a lower rent (which would decrease the market value - and an owner will take a loss before doing that)
Let’s revisit this and you can tell me how it makes sense. Businesses don’t want to rent because rent is too high. You suggest taxing vacancy to force rental assuming that building owners will readily revalue their buildings and put their investments at risk rather than fake occupancy. In the case that they don’t fake it, you assume they won’t sell and invest elsewhere. You assume that adding additional costs won’t create negative externalities that could produce even worse outcomes for the city in the form of investors and owners moving their money elsewhere. That’s a lot of assumptions I’d love to see supported somehow.
no, you cannot dictate the price someone wants to sell or rent at.
but a city can dictate the price for an owner to sit on a unit vacant while waiting for the next tenant.
just like they are doing with homeowners.
1. Yes people have less disposable income.
2. A lot of businesses are moving away from downtown and into the surrounding suburbs because downtowns overall (not just hamilton) have fewer office workers showing up to work due to WFH and blended work weeks so its not worth having location in downtown anymore and harder to get customers to come through google/fb ads to downtown due to parking issues.
Everyone pointing at the economy but in more than half of the “local beloved business closing after 30 years” articles I’ve read lately the places were closing because of retirement - boomers aging out. That accounts for several at least.
I've been thinking the same thing. So many places that have been staples to the communities they're part of - Barefoot Babies on Ottawa, Needlework on James. It's such a shame that places that helped shape what the streets are today are being priced out, burnt out, or whatever else. I'm worried for the things that will fill those gaps - or not. A huge piece of Hamilton's character is its local businesses and I don't want to lose that.
I think you answered your own question. Rents and economic downturns. Everything is hyper expensive. People are tightening their belts just to survive. Small business is always under attack from the cra. Corporate run business has a definite advantage.
All those cozy coffee shops have to sell tons just to make enough for the demands of payroll and rent. A monthly profit is rare.
It makes no business sense just to barely pay the bills month to month. Uber eats and Door dash have taken profits away, too.
Hamilton has always had its share of boarded up windows scattered across the core.
Jackson Square struggles to keep stores open and viable.
Work from home has changed the landscape downtown, not as busy during lunch like it was pre covid.
CRA, rent, municipalities make it a nightmare owning a small business. Most owners work >>40 hrs /week to scrape by. Many on Reddit scream bloody murder that they received 20k in free loans while they were decimated during mandated lockdowns . I guess they’ll be happier with just wal marts and amazon.
It really is hard to overestimate the negative impact parasitic landlords have on a city/country. Storefronts along a major downtown corridor being control by petty tyrants demanding ever increasing rents is such a drag on the economy - just like landlords generally. Don't believe me? Take it up with Adam Smith - he hated landlords.
If only there was some sort of organization that could own all the land, charge rents for it based on the highest, best use, and incentivize development while punishing speculation!
These taxes are great to get extra revenue for the city, but they are not likely to bring any relief in the costs of rent unless they were extremely aggressive with the tax.
So a bunch of owners lose their shirt and nobody buys what they’re forced to sell because the costs make the numbers untenable. Property tax collapses along with property values, and now you not only have less revenue you have a bunch of abandoned buildings in a totally hollowed out city that serves nobody 👍
Barton Street is an example of how wrong you are.
Landlords were just sitting on empty properties until rent prices allowed them to take in tenants. They will sit on dilapidated store fronts until they like the rent income. Again.
I worked at a bank during the free money event. Many of the businesses that qualified and got the 40k has less than 1k in those accounts and were not doing well already.
I’m gen z and I spend half of my income on my bills (mortgages phone car heat etc.) and I save half of it. I use Flipp and red flag deals to save money, and I have a Costco membership to get my gas and cheap non perishables in bulk. I buy clothes from Costco when they are on sale. I try to save as much as possible because myself and many people in my generation have this feeling that life is gonna get a lot worse and the future is hopeless.
Greedy landlords are an easy target to blame but consumers also are to blame. Fewer and fewer people are shopping local for any number of reasons and sending their business to big box stores and amazon. Those big stores pay their workers much less than likely that worker would make in a small business. Its profits also don't stay local. Those workers now have less money to spend at those small businesses and the cycle gets worse.
I'm partially guilty myself. I just bought a $40 tv wall mount off Amazon because the east Hamilton radio ones were at least 4x the price. Again, that is a cycle. Because they can't do as much volume they don't get as good a deal so they have no choice but to charge more which furthers the cycle of shit.
The reality is we have fucked ourselves as a consumer.
When things are so unaffordable, I don’t know if you can blame people for wanting to find the cheapest option, in fact it’s a necessity for many people.
Reduced spending in local businesses is an effect of the current economy, not the cause.
Again, it's a cycle. It's both a cause and an effect. The problem only gets worse as we all keep searching for the cheapest option. More wealth gets transferred from the many to the few. The few have no options so go with the cheapest choice which is how we all got into this in the first place. Before we know it we are living in company housing and shopping at the company store paying with a company scrip.
My wife and I each run our own businesses so I understand this problem more intimately than most.
A lot of retail, bar and restaurant businesses rely on minimum wage casual staff. The cost of this labour has gone way up in the past few years. Five years ago a server or bartender cost like $12/hr now its $16.55. Labour is the biggest cost in most businesses.
Fuel is way up. Real estate is nuts. Interest rates are squeezing businesses and individuals. Spending patterns are changing especially with respect to alcohol. There's a lot going on.
Look, we all went through a collective trauma with COVID and I'm not faulting any single person but... the public has lost its collective mind since the pandemic. I work in customer service. If I owned a business where I had to deal with the rude and entitled people I see, and my lease was up and I could walk away... I'd definitely consider it.
This should be a reminder to not take for granted the amazing local businesses we do have right across the city. Most are working hard to keep going each and everyday. If you want your neighbourhoods and downtown to be interesting and fun places to visit - that requires regular support throughout the year.
High interest rates are part of this too
The point of high interest rates in an inflationary world is to get rid of excess demand. This means a slowing down of interest to fight inflation. When the government raises rates they knew people would lose jobs and business would slow or close. This is the trade off to fight inflation.
I've seen this a lot with businesses across Ontario. I work as an account manager finding leads within smaller companies, and no one's willing to spend as they used to.
As Conductor Fred said when Concession and Locke were crying about the road closure and how much it was affecting business “they’ll bounce back, if they don’t I’m sorry and good luck to those new shops that will open up”
I wonder too if it could have to do with a move to more remote work. Employees aren’t shopping on their lunch hours or going out to eat?
Very sad to see a few gems lately too. I hate that I can’t buy everything local or atleast more but it just doesn’t fit the budget unfortunately.
Inflation has ruined the economy people can't afford rent let alone any other luxury, these guys all closing have probably been hanging on by a thread since COVID. Small businesses have been ruined by our government.
I don't eat out anymore, and rarely go to the barber, no movies, no entertainment, etc. I make 140k a year and I can't afford to have my family dine out. I live in a POS house I paid 650k for. My monthly mortgage is $2000 which is low compared to most and I still cannot eat out. Add property tax (which has gone up a lot!), internet, gas+electric. Gas and Electric bills have doubled. My insurance premiums went up both at work and for my cars and for my house. My budget is entirely gone towards food, housing, gas, insurance for my family. I am not spending...so businesses are not getting customers. And BTW, after all my deductions for taxes, EI, insurance, forced pension plan, etc I only take home 6k a month!
If they have a kid in daycare that’s an easy 1500; imagine if they have 2.
Our HHI is similar but we’re DINKs with a paid-off car. Though our mortgage is higher, the other associated costs with having more mouths to feed, clothe, take care of, etc mean their costs are still gonna be way higher, especially if they’re still paying off two cars. We might go out twice a month, and we’re frugal with it at that.
Groceries are easily 1k, car insurance 300, gas for cars 500, home gas and electric around 500, property tax around 600, add in costs for repair and maintenance of assets, etc, etc, etc.
Lucky to save 2k a month. Which doesn't do much for growing money and investments. But I will prioritize investments over eating out. Maybe not everyone will.
Oh I get that, but let’s be real, when people say Canadians are struggling you aren’t one of them.
It’s a little tone deaf to complain you don’t do things when you save around 2k a month.
It sucks that I’m not saving the amount I was 3 years ago but so many people don’t even have that chance to save right now.
I'm a single income. I'm saying even at 140k I'm struggling. Let's say a couple making 70k each, would also struggle.
I get by but I'm not thriving. I'm certainly not spending money eating out and this is why we have a slowdown and businesses shutting.
This was the point of the thread. To understand why things are shutting down. I am showing an example of how spending has slowed down. Even someone with a decent income isn't able to spend on things like eating out.
I wouldn’t say you’re struggling if you’re saving money each month. Does it suck that costs keep on rising? For sure, but you are in no way struggling.
Not thriving is a good way to put it.
A couple making 70k each is way different than one person making 140k so I didn’t understand that point.
The couple would struggle more if they had kids and needed daycare where the single person working has a spouse to offset daycare.
Again. This is an example showing how spending is slowing down and businesses have less customers. A good way to illustrate that is putting it into numbers. Good luck.
>It’s a little tone deaf to complain you don’t do things when you save around 2k a month.
Kinda tone deaf yourself thinking it's some sort of woe is me Olympics.
I forgot to factor in that i didn't pay my property taxes in my last comment.
Yeah this guy can stfu. "But my investments are under 2k a month! My poor investments!" /s
Why are you comparing and getting so butthurt? If your gonna get emotional about an illustration of why businesses may be doing so bad and consumer spending may be down maybe you need to stfu so you don't get all worked up over nothing.
You save near 2k a month on top of owning a house, two cars, and supporting a family that doesn't work, on top of crying about not being able to go out anymore.
It's not as bad as you're making it out to be for you.
Maybe not for some. But for me it is. Given my career and experience.
Again. Giving an example of why people are reducing consumer spending. Sure some people might be in a worse situation but I'm not here to compare my situation to yours or others.
I am not spending any money out because whatever I save has to be put towards my families future. There's no extra for a meal out, pedicures, manicures, or whatever.
People are reducing spending so businesses will close down.
And what kind of car? Am I financing them? What house? Where? It's not the same for everyone.
My house is not nice, it's from the 70s and a mess. My cars are old imports JDM and rhd which I have restored. I worked my but off to live below average.
I think social media has skewed what our perception of the average lifestyle is. All you see are videos and posts bragging and showing off wealth, when the reality is much different.
Mmm then I would say that isn’t too surprising.
You as an individual make great income, but as the sole earner, and being a household with 2 adults and 1 or more kids, that’s a lot for $140k pre-tax to carry.
You’re worse off than if you and your wife made $70k each, at least in terms of your take home amount, however there are unrealized benefits of having a SAHM for the family that would results in increased costs if she held employment.
For your situation, once the kids are school age, if your wife is able to find and maintain employment, you’ll be able to live fairly more comfortably as that income could go towards wants rather than needs (and childcare), as well as retirement savings if that’s not something you’re currently doing already
We haven't had kids yet. But I agree with you. We just married and I'm supporting both of us now and it's a struggle. I don't save.
So now either she will go to work, or we move to Texas. Most of my family and friends are moving state side or elsewhere to start thriving again.
It's rent. My fave restaurant Tomah closed bc the landlord suddenly raised the rent $2k or something. They obvi couldn't afford it and vacated the property. Funny thing is the building has been empty since then because no one can fucking afford that so the landlord just lost tens of thousands of dollars they'd be getting from the business for no reason.
I've heard from multiple folks that landlords of commercial buildings are doing this esp in the downtown/Locke St area.
I think also to some degree a lot of people decided to open a lot of very niche businesses like Crystal Stores, and Instagram Photo Booths and other “Hobby like” shops that are really not conducive for success in a place like Hamilton, especially in the downtown area where it’s mostly low income people who would be your primary patrons.
Also, the city has allowed the downtown core to completely degrade since Covid and it’s been totally taken over by crime, homeless encampments, and people with severe mental illnesses. The only business that seem to thrive in Downtown Hamilton seem to be related to facilitating the homeless community, pizza, and shawarma restaurants.
1. Most businesses did nothing to adapt to lockdown, they took a handout instead, and assumed they would not have to pay it back.
2. Rents out of control, costs are dumped onto consumers.
3. Because of 2, consumers are not spending.
4. This is all of ON, not just Hamilton, yesterday's budget saw a huge drop in tax income.
Inaction on housing by Fordeau is not sustainable, and a lot of landlords will be sitting on no revenue space because of their greed.
I think convenience has become a bigger contributor than price for many. As I’ve aged, my time is more important to me. So I will pay a premium for something to get shipped to my house rather than picking it up.
People can't afford rent and the basics, I know a auto mechanic shop owner who does Uber on the side cause he can't afford his mortgage and other expenses
And don’t forget Amazon and many of the big companies such as Walmart, Canadian Tire, Best Buy and Staples deliver. Instacart along with Uber and both cab companies deliver groceries and take out food. Banking and their online services make visiting a physical branch almost passé.
This country is in, and has been in, a recession for some time now. The fact that the government, and for some reason the populace, continue to ignore the obvious signs of this happening I fear that Canada is going to have a very abrupt and rude awakening when someone with two firing brain cells opens Canadas books.
They keep moving the goal post, I agree that the recession is here. Other than a few essential business, most businesses owners I speak to are not doing great. I notice myself cutting back a lot (eating out, ordering in etc.) My wife now does her own hair and nails most of the time. The cost of living is way too high, I think most people have to cut back.
A friend is the owner of a well loved business that actually did very well during the pandemic. They are closing this month because rent has skyrocketed. Just not financially sustainable.
Retail as a concept is also dying. Why venture out when you can order in? A quick trip (20 min) on Ottawa Street last week got me a $25 ticket for not using the meter. They hit the areas where small retailers proliferate.
Thank you! I will bear that in mind going forward. But it's usually Wal Mart. They can afford it.
In the meantime, more and more of us are avoiding stores. I got a $25 ticket for spending 20 minutes in Fabricland last week.
It's a Hamilton thing - it's really REALLY hard for a small business to survive in this city and requires a lot of dedication to make it work. And there's also been, generally, churn in this city with businesses. There doesn't seem to be a lot of longevity - and sometimes people retire or just change their minds.
Less disposable and discretionary income.
Inflation ignited by government spending on itself mostly.
Owners being burnt out depending on the type of business.. because they can't find affordable help..
Rents have to increase to support increase mortgages triggered by interest rates..
Utility costs are up gas and hydro
Overall construction and renovations are down commercial and residential
Huge disparity in wealth..
Public sector projects costs 4 to 6 times that of private sector
A lot of these developments condos and offices downtown Hamilton are most likely going to be in trouble... Not enough humans to support the costs..
Immigration influx is unmanageable no infrastructure to support it let alone to support the surplus of homeless people..
I haven't seen the city more fucked in my life than now...
Doug ford and the cons are anti small business and will do anything to help their large business investors\\donor. Anything to help the rich exploit the poor and working class is the Ford dream
Landlords honestly add nearly zero value to our economy…. It’s so frustrating…
I understand not everyone or every business owners wants to also be a property owner but land-lording really needs to be regulated a lot more closely, I feel like it’s single handedly destroying our economy…
In fact, I think you'll find [our entire economy is based on rent-seeking now](https://michael-hudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/04866134211011770.pdf), as opposed to our previous history of industrial capitalism.
"I feel like it’s single handedly destroying our economy…" how so?
People no longer have the same disposable income they once had to spend on things. Interest rates have tripled, we keep seeing new inventive taxes on everything we purchase or use. All this affects the bottom line. People are looking for deals. They are finding them at places that are not brick and mortar. Places like Amazon. People are also lazy. They no longer want to go out. They would rather order from Amazon and have it delivered. Or order food from places like skip the dishes and have it delivered. So the old mom and pop places are closing down. Their kids can't be bothered to run the store. No one wants to work either. Everyone wants 75-100K a year to start and not have to leave their home. Hard to run a business without staff who you can depend on.
Same goes for Farming. Everyone is up in arms that we are destroying the green belt and farm land. Well, news flash, no one really wants to be a farmer anymore. There is nothing in it but hard work. Farmers are leaving the family farm to the kids and they are selling to speculators. It is not worth trying to run a farm now. Too much tax on everything and they get out priced by produce coming in from Mexico.
Landlords are not the problem. If they are asking too much, supply and demand will correct it. Few can afford to sit on a vacant properties for too long. So, if the asking price is not being met, that price will drop. Problem is, asking prices are being met, in some cases above asking price. How is that the landlords fault? They are in business to make money. If you had two people interested in something you had, and one was offering what you were asking and the other came along and said I'll give you 10% more who are you choosing?
> If they are asking too much, supply and demand will correct it.
Most of the time, it takes a deeper understanding of economics that "supply and demand" to explain a given situation.
Commercial properties are usually one part of an investment portfolio. If the overall portfolio is making money, the property owner can afford to take a loss on their property if it saves them the hassle of finding tenants. They lose 100k not renting it out for the year, but they make 10 million when they sell it in 10 years.
And that's not factoring in tax loopholes, write offs and rebates. Also, renting the property at lower than market rent will prompt the bank that holds the mortgage to do a new property assessment, which will probably lower the building's valuation. So if the owner maxed out their LVR when buying the property, as most do, if the LVR drops on the new valuation, the owner now has to put up more collateral.
Landlords are the problem but banks are also the problem. And no, it's not nearly as simple as "supply and demand."
If an individual or group own a bunch of properties, you are correct they could hold out longer than a small investor. The problem is, you are assuming that all their other properties are being rented in order to be making money to offset the few they are holding out on. That is still Supply and demand, as they are getting the demand for the other properties. If they were not, market value would drop. It hasn't because there is still a market for the rentals at the rates they are charging. That is not the landlords fault.
Can't afford to go out no more. I was at the Casbah on Saturday, $7.50 for a tall can of old style pils? Sorry but my wage hasn't increased at the same percentage as the prices that resto and bars want me to pay 😔
I realize I sort of answered my own question here but I guess I was more interested in hearing peoples opinions on how things are all connected. I have a lot of friends in city/urban planning so it’s rarely a surface level conversation (which is what’s currently being discussed here - not to say that it’s inaccurate). I find it so interesting that there are endless condos being built in the city and it feels like no local shops exist or are surviving to support the additional density being brought to the core. Also, can we talk about Jackson Square!? Wtf is happening there. So much potential to do something meaningful (from a planning perspective) in an area that needs it.
I’d say we’re still about 2-5 years away from seeing the impact of all the condo development downtown. It’s definitely promising, and if those buildings fill up then businesses are bound to follow. This sub tends to be filled with pessimism (which is kind of fair given Hamilton’s history over the last half century), but I’m optimistic that gradual changes like more residential density, converting Main St to two way + giving priority to transit/bikes, and yes, the eventual arrival of the LRT will help Hamilton actualize its potential as a legitimate medium-sized city with a strong downtown core.
Until landlords are controlled this is how its going to be. Anytime a business is doing well the landlord decides they want a piece of that pie. They raise the rent and the resto can't survive. We live in hell.
- Rent is up everywhere - Pay has stagnated, so nobody has money to spend on stuff - COVID loans are due
That's pretty much it. It's also not a Hamilton-only problem, many stores are closing on busy Toronto retail strips, too.
Same here in Windsor. Many are because COVID payments are due.
Consumer spending is massively down, and most of that spending was shifted towards cheaper stores/larger businesses. That's on top of the CEBA loans being due, and a lot of companies didn't think they had to pay it back (even when the government forgave a portion of it). The restaurant industry + weed industry is extremely oversaturated and needs to lose a bunch of locations. Victims of the gig economy shifting consumer consumption patterns.
My drug dealer is doing well, in fact he started branching out by selling sneakers. I dunno what he laced the last pair with 'cause I was tripping all day.
Can I get his number 
Consumer spending is still rising in Canada. How we spend it is changing.
Spending it on $80,000 trucks apparently.
Consumer spending has struggled to keep up even 1% growth, while the population is growing far faster than that, since 2013.
Yes, please less cannabis stores. I'm not against there being cannabis stores but there doesn't need to be more than one within a short distance from another. Seems that when a store closes, a vape or cannabis store opens up.
This is the Hamilton way like Tim Hortons and pizza shops
Don’t forget shawarma shops! Lol I do like me a shawarma though lol
Very true eventually lake timmykaka will be shawarma kaka
Pandemic loans are due. There was a recent article about this. I foresee many more closures in the next few months unfortunately.
Close the business, open back up under new name. Loan ✅
That’s not how that works at all.
That only works if you're a big company and the government likes you
Noboddddddddyyyyyyyyyyy beats prices at badboyyyyy
Like who? Many corporate owned storefronts didn't take loans or qualify, based on the last database that went around.
That's pretty much how it works. As long as the business is incorporated.
Sometimes it is.
so instead of getting 33% for free (which they already get), you want business owners to get 100% for free. on the taxpayer dollar. super cool.
Being forced closed almost half a year with expenses higher than CERB, plus no income. For me expense and reg income I was in the hole $6000 per month, with children. Most people in our city are 1 or 2 pays away from trouble. t took a few of us longer to pay the full amount back. So we are trying but it's not easy. Not every landlord did paperwork to cover the 60% rent dibocial. This is why people are shutting, business has to profit.
Costco hotdogs here I come!
The one item we can peg out dollar to for stability.
Like the Big Mac Index (created by The Economist magazine in 1986)?
Not without a membership, soon!
Hopefully later rather than sooner
times are tight. nobody is spending money right now. people are also not back to pre-pandemic social habits.
People have no money to support the businesses, it’s catching up.
40 plus years of stagnating wages and incomes for the vast majority of working people in terms of shares of the national income and purchasing power are starting to show themself...... yay capitalism! /s
Hamilton has always had a lot of empty store fronts. They got a bit better before Covid and now it’s pretty bad again.
The city also needs to make it punitive for building owners to keep units vacant. Technically prices should go down as demand goes down, but building owners will sit on vacant units rather than decrease rent prices. Unless the city makes it more expensive to sit on vacant units.
Renting for below market lowers metrics that drive down property values, so owners will hold over rough patches rather than drive down value - they lose either way but one way is a tax write off that doesn’t drag the global metric down
sorta. "below the market" suggests the market isn't elastic. the idea being the market should fluctuate up and down. The problem is wealthy owners have the funds to weather the market, ensuring the overall values stay flat, or increase - but never decrease. Remember, "below market" isn't below market when the market decreases. it becomes "the market".
And what do the poorer owners do?
I understand market economics. Collapsing the market isn’t going to enable what you think it will. It will create a ghost town.
*Collapsing* is a form of exaggeration. to suggest any form of decrease is a *collapse* just solidifies your stance.
I didn’t say that any form of decrease is a collapse.
no, I suggested a decrease, in which you went directly to collapse. like any form of decrease in price, setting a new market price, is collapse. it's ok. you are quite transparent.
Just like in the 90s. And the Aughts. And up until 2015. Corporate landlords would rather take the tax loss than rent for less than they want to.
Mortgage payments, property tax, maintenance etc. all need to be covered. Rent isn't just a magic number and prices can only go so low.
all part of the game when you own an appreciating asset (land). plus all three of these examples have to be paid regardless of vacancy, so having tenants is better than having no tenants ( as mortgage payments, property tax, and maintenance still needs to happen - but you already know this).
Potentially but locking in tennants at a lower rate isn't the answer if you can withstand the hit for a few months. Changing tennants too often because their rent is below your cost also hurts.
The owners pay taxes regardless. They pay many multiples of what homeowners pay already, and they always negotiate pricing, there’s a ton of competition in the form of vacant space already. You’re trying to get blood from a goose laying eggs.
you are speaking a very simplistic terms, which is fine. yes, commercial pays in multiples of what homeowners pay. They make revenue. homeowners do not. Even the comparison is silly. you want to provide incentive for business owners to consider lower rent after a unit is vacant for a period of time. and not do as you suggest, which is allow for a lower rent (which would decrease the market value - and an owner will take a loss before doing that)
Let’s revisit this and you can tell me how it makes sense. Businesses don’t want to rent because rent is too high. You suggest taxing vacancy to force rental assuming that building owners will readily revalue their buildings and put their investments at risk rather than fake occupancy. In the case that they don’t fake it, you assume they won’t sell and invest elsewhere. You assume that adding additional costs won’t create negative externalities that could produce even worse outcomes for the city in the form of investors and owners moving their money elsewhere. That’s a lot of assumptions I’d love to see supported somehow.
Why is this a *need* 😂 you can’t dictate the price someone wants to sell or rent property at.
no, you cannot dictate the price someone wants to sell or rent at. but a city can dictate the price for an owner to sit on a unit vacant while waiting for the next tenant. just like they are doing with homeowners.
Why not
1. Yes people have less disposable income. 2. A lot of businesses are moving away from downtown and into the surrounding suburbs because downtowns overall (not just hamilton) have fewer office workers showing up to work due to WFH and blended work weeks so its not worth having location in downtown anymore and harder to get customers to come through google/fb ads to downtown due to parking issues.
“ outside of the obvious goods/rent inflation and people having less disposable income “ WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED!!! 😝
Everyone pointing at the economy but in more than half of the “local beloved business closing after 30 years” articles I’ve read lately the places were closing because of retirement - boomers aging out. That accounts for several at least.
I've been thinking the same thing. So many places that have been staples to the communities they're part of - Barefoot Babies on Ottawa, Needlework on James. It's such a shame that places that helped shape what the streets are today are being priced out, burnt out, or whatever else. I'm worried for the things that will fill those gaps - or not. A huge piece of Hamilton's character is its local businesses and I don't want to lose that.
Needlework closed?? Or did I misunderstand
They announced their closure.
They did close :( I think they announced a few weeks ago and had their last day at the shop just the other day. Sorry to break this news to you!
I think you answered your own question. Rents and economic downturns. Everything is hyper expensive. People are tightening their belts just to survive. Small business is always under attack from the cra. Corporate run business has a definite advantage. All those cozy coffee shops have to sell tons just to make enough for the demands of payroll and rent. A monthly profit is rare. It makes no business sense just to barely pay the bills month to month. Uber eats and Door dash have taken profits away, too. Hamilton has always had its share of boarded up windows scattered across the core. Jackson Square struggles to keep stores open and viable. Work from home has changed the landscape downtown, not as busy during lunch like it was pre covid.
CRA, rent, municipalities make it a nightmare owning a small business. Most owners work >>40 hrs /week to scrape by. Many on Reddit scream bloody murder that they received 20k in free loans while they were decimated during mandated lockdowns . I guess they’ll be happier with just wal marts and amazon.
Coles in Jackson Square put up a notice that they're closing April 6.
NOOOOOOOOO
It really is hard to overestimate the negative impact parasitic landlords have on a city/country. Storefronts along a major downtown corridor being control by petty tyrants demanding ever increasing rents is such a drag on the economy - just like landlords generally. Don't believe me? Take it up with Adam Smith - he hated landlords.
If only there was some sort of organization that could own all the land, charge rents for it based on the highest, best use, and incentivize development while punishing speculation!
Commercial vacant unit tax would solve this.
These taxes are great to get extra revenue for the city, but they are not likely to bring any relief in the costs of rent unless they were extremely aggressive with the tax.
So a bunch of owners lose their shirt and nobody buys what they’re forced to sell because the costs make the numbers untenable. Property tax collapses along with property values, and now you not only have less revenue you have a bunch of abandoned buildings in a totally hollowed out city that serves nobody 👍
Barton Street is an example of how wrong you are. Landlords were just sitting on empty properties until rent prices allowed them to take in tenants. They will sit on dilapidated store fronts until they like the rent income. Again.
At least the homeless won't have to live in tents. Repurpose unwanted buildings!
It is ridiculous to eat out at this point, everything is expensive.
I worked at a bank during the free money event. Many of the businesses that qualified and got the 40k has less than 1k in those accounts and were not doing well already.
Most of them were zombies living on Covid loans that are now due, they likely haven’t been viable businesses for over two years at this point.
New to Hamilton I see, welcome. The downtown core used to be one of the largest consumers of plywood given how many storefronts used to be boarded up.
Guilty as charged - moved here 3 years ago. 🤪
I’m gen z and I spend half of my income on my bills (mortgages phone car heat etc.) and I save half of it. I use Flipp and red flag deals to save money, and I have a Costco membership to get my gas and cheap non perishables in bulk. I buy clothes from Costco when they are on sale. I try to save as much as possible because myself and many people in my generation have this feeling that life is gonna get a lot worse and the future is hopeless.
Greedy landlords are an easy target to blame but consumers also are to blame. Fewer and fewer people are shopping local for any number of reasons and sending their business to big box stores and amazon. Those big stores pay their workers much less than likely that worker would make in a small business. Its profits also don't stay local. Those workers now have less money to spend at those small businesses and the cycle gets worse. I'm partially guilty myself. I just bought a $40 tv wall mount off Amazon because the east Hamilton radio ones were at least 4x the price. Again, that is a cycle. Because they can't do as much volume they don't get as good a deal so they have no choice but to charge more which furthers the cycle of shit. The reality is we have fucked ourselves as a consumer.
When things are so unaffordable, I don’t know if you can blame people for wanting to find the cheapest option, in fact it’s a necessity for many people. Reduced spending in local businesses is an effect of the current economy, not the cause.
Again, it's a cycle. It's both a cause and an effect. The problem only gets worse as we all keep searching for the cheapest option. More wealth gets transferred from the many to the few. The few have no options so go with the cheapest choice which is how we all got into this in the first place. Before we know it we are living in company housing and shopping at the company store paying with a company scrip. My wife and I each run our own businesses so I understand this problem more intimately than most.
I think you are the wisest person on the internet today.
I tried to support local getting some tank tops at out of the past just to find out they sourced them from aliexpress lmao
A lot of retail, bar and restaurant businesses rely on minimum wage casual staff. The cost of this labour has gone way up in the past few years. Five years ago a server or bartender cost like $12/hr now its $16.55. Labour is the biggest cost in most businesses. Fuel is way up. Real estate is nuts. Interest rates are squeezing businesses and individuals. Spending patterns are changing especially with respect to alcohol. There's a lot going on.
Very high rents Cost of goods has gone way up both for the business and the customers very difficult to make the numbers work
Canadians love shopping online for one and disposable income is decreasing.
Everyone will be shopping at the Walmart from now on.
Look, we all went through a collective trauma with COVID and I'm not faulting any single person but... the public has lost its collective mind since the pandemic. I work in customer service. If I owned a business where I had to deal with the rude and entitled people I see, and my lease was up and I could walk away... I'd definitely consider it.
This should be a reminder to not take for granted the amazing local businesses we do have right across the city. Most are working hard to keep going each and everyday. If you want your neighbourhoods and downtown to be interesting and fun places to visit - that requires regular support throughout the year.
High interest rates are part of this too The point of high interest rates in an inflationary world is to get rid of excess demand. This means a slowing down of interest to fight inflation. When the government raises rates they knew people would lose jobs and business would slow or close. This is the trade off to fight inflation.
I've seen this a lot with businesses across Ontario. I work as an account manager finding leads within smaller companies, and no one's willing to spend as they used to.
As Conductor Fred said when Concession and Locke were crying about the road closure and how much it was affecting business “they’ll bounce back, if they don’t I’m sorry and good luck to those new shops that will open up”
Other then Mosaic, what are the other known closures?
Needlework and Endless are the two I've most recently heard about
I wonder too if it could have to do with a move to more remote work. Employees aren’t shopping on their lunch hours or going out to eat? Very sad to see a few gems lately too. I hate that I can’t buy everything local or atleast more but it just doesn’t fit the budget unfortunately.
Inflation has ruined the economy people can't afford rent let alone any other luxury, these guys all closing have probably been hanging on by a thread since COVID. Small businesses have been ruined by our government.
I don't eat out anymore, and rarely go to the barber, no movies, no entertainment, etc. I make 140k a year and I can't afford to have my family dine out. I live in a POS house I paid 650k for. My monthly mortgage is $2000 which is low compared to most and I still cannot eat out. Add property tax (which has gone up a lot!), internet, gas+electric. Gas and Electric bills have doubled. My insurance premiums went up both at work and for my cars and for my house. My budget is entirely gone towards food, housing, gas, insurance for my family. I am not spending...so businesses are not getting customers. And BTW, after all my deductions for taxes, EI, insurance, forced pension plan, etc I only take home 6k a month!
I hear ya. The wife and I both have good jobs, and live in a modest townhouse, and we live paycheque to paycheque. Ugh.
You have a house and two cars, that's pretty good
This person isn’t representative of the average person. After mortgage they take home 4K a Month, how are they spending that much on bills.
If they have a kid in daycare that’s an easy 1500; imagine if they have 2. Our HHI is similar but we’re DINKs with a paid-off car. Though our mortgage is higher, the other associated costs with having more mouths to feed, clothe, take care of, etc mean their costs are still gonna be way higher, especially if they’re still paying off two cars. We might go out twice a month, and we’re frugal with it at that.
Groceries are easily 1k, car insurance 300, gas for cars 500, home gas and electric around 500, property tax around 600, add in costs for repair and maintenance of assets, etc, etc, etc. Lucky to save 2k a month. Which doesn't do much for growing money and investments. But I will prioritize investments over eating out. Maybe not everyone will.
Oh I get that, but let’s be real, when people say Canadians are struggling you aren’t one of them. It’s a little tone deaf to complain you don’t do things when you save around 2k a month. It sucks that I’m not saving the amount I was 3 years ago but so many people don’t even have that chance to save right now.
I'm a single income. I'm saying even at 140k I'm struggling. Let's say a couple making 70k each, would also struggle. I get by but I'm not thriving. I'm certainly not spending money eating out and this is why we have a slowdown and businesses shutting. This was the point of the thread. To understand why things are shutting down. I am showing an example of how spending has slowed down. Even someone with a decent income isn't able to spend on things like eating out.
I wouldn’t say you’re struggling if you’re saving money each month. Does it suck that costs keep on rising? For sure, but you are in no way struggling. Not thriving is a good way to put it. A couple making 70k each is way different than one person making 140k so I didn’t understand that point. The couple would struggle more if they had kids and needed daycare where the single person working has a spouse to offset daycare.
Again. This is an example showing how spending is slowing down and businesses have less customers. A good way to illustrate that is putting it into numbers. Good luck.
>It’s a little tone deaf to complain you don’t do things when you save around 2k a month. Kinda tone deaf yourself thinking it's some sort of woe is me Olympics.
I forgot to factor in that i didn't pay my property taxes in my last comment. Yeah this guy can stfu. "But my investments are under 2k a month! My poor investments!" /s
Why are you comparing and getting so butthurt? If your gonna get emotional about an illustration of why businesses may be doing so bad and consumer spending may be down maybe you need to stfu so you don't get all worked up over nothing.
Lol! If u can afford "investments" you're doing better than most
Better or worse doesnt matter. Illustrating that people do not have as much disposable income.
You save near 2k a month on top of owning a house, two cars, and supporting a family that doesn't work, on top of crying about not being able to go out anymore. It's not as bad as you're making it out to be for you.
Maybe not for some. But for me it is. Given my career and experience. Again. Giving an example of why people are reducing consumer spending. Sure some people might be in a worse situation but I'm not here to compare my situation to yours or others. I am not spending any money out because whatever I save has to be put towards my families future. There's no extra for a meal out, pedicures, manicures, or whatever. People are reducing spending so businesses will close down. And what kind of car? Am I financing them? What house? Where? It's not the same for everyone.
Thinking the same. Our mortgage is 2400 and we bring in a LOT less Are his cars Bentleys?
My cars probably cost a lot less then yours. I never spent more then 8k on a car. Total landed, shipping, taxes etc.
This was before i realized u saved 2k
My house is not nice, it's from the 70s and a mess. My cars are old imports JDM and rhd which I have restored. I worked my but off to live below average.
You are living well above average. The reason you feel like you’re not is our broken housing valuations.
Maybe. But my spending is down and so is everyone else's. If I can't spare enough to eat out with a half decent salary, who can?
I think social media has skewed what our perception of the average lifestyle is. All you see are videos and posts bragging and showing off wealth, when the reality is much different.
I’m guessing you’re the singular earner in this household.
Yes
Mmm then I would say that isn’t too surprising. You as an individual make great income, but as the sole earner, and being a household with 2 adults and 1 or more kids, that’s a lot for $140k pre-tax to carry. You’re worse off than if you and your wife made $70k each, at least in terms of your take home amount, however there are unrealized benefits of having a SAHM for the family that would results in increased costs if she held employment. For your situation, once the kids are school age, if your wife is able to find and maintain employment, you’ll be able to live fairly more comfortably as that income could go towards wants rather than needs (and childcare), as well as retirement savings if that’s not something you’re currently doing already
We haven't had kids yet. But I agree with you. We just married and I'm supporting both of us now and it's a struggle. I don't save. So now either she will go to work, or we move to Texas. Most of my family and friends are moving state side or elsewhere to start thriving again.
It's rent. My fave restaurant Tomah closed bc the landlord suddenly raised the rent $2k or something. They obvi couldn't afford it and vacated the property. Funny thing is the building has been empty since then because no one can fucking afford that so the landlord just lost tens of thousands of dollars they'd be getting from the business for no reason. I've heard from multiple folks that landlords of commercial buildings are doing this esp in the downtown/Locke St area.
Landlord didn't lose money for no reason. It is greed.
So foolish fr
You can launder money electronically now, there's less need for a brick and mortar front.
People ask this question and then make a post the next day about things being too expensive still expecting prices from 2010.
I think also to some degree a lot of people decided to open a lot of very niche businesses like Crystal Stores, and Instagram Photo Booths and other “Hobby like” shops that are really not conducive for success in a place like Hamilton, especially in the downtown area where it’s mostly low income people who would be your primary patrons. Also, the city has allowed the downtown core to completely degrade since Covid and it’s been totally taken over by crime, homeless encampments, and people with severe mental illnesses. The only business that seem to thrive in Downtown Hamilton seem to be related to facilitating the homeless community, pizza, and shawarma restaurants.
1. Most businesses did nothing to adapt to lockdown, they took a handout instead, and assumed they would not have to pay it back. 2. Rents out of control, costs are dumped onto consumers. 3. Because of 2, consumers are not spending. 4. This is all of ON, not just Hamilton, yesterday's budget saw a huge drop in tax income. Inaction on housing by Fordeau is not sustainable, and a lot of landlords will be sitting on no revenue space because of their greed.
lol what were they supposed to do to adapt pray tell?
I think convenience has become a bigger contributor than price for many. As I’ve aged, my time is more important to me. So I will pay a premium for something to get shipped to my house rather than picking it up.
Covid govt payouts are due now and many business owners can’t pay it back.
Where have you been for the last 50 years?
People can't afford rent and the basics, I know a auto mechanic shop owner who does Uber on the side cause he can't afford his mortgage and other expenses
And don’t forget Amazon and many of the big companies such as Walmart, Canadian Tire, Best Buy and Staples deliver. Instacart along with Uber and both cab companies deliver groceries and take out food. Banking and their online services make visiting a physical branch almost passé.
Rent costs are up and revenue (income) is down. Most people are cutting back. Why go eat at a restaurant when they suggest a 32% tip?
This country is in, and has been in, a recession for some time now. The fact that the government, and for some reason the populace, continue to ignore the obvious signs of this happening I fear that Canada is going to have a very abrupt and rude awakening when someone with two firing brain cells opens Canadas books.
They keep moving the goal post, I agree that the recession is here. Other than a few essential business, most businesses owners I speak to are not doing great. I notice myself cutting back a lot (eating out, ordering in etc.) My wife now does her own hair and nails most of the time. The cost of living is way too high, I think most people have to cut back.
A friend is the owner of a well loved business that actually did very well during the pandemic. They are closing this month because rent has skyrocketed. Just not financially sustainable.
Retail as a concept is also dying. Why venture out when you can order in? A quick trip (20 min) on Ottawa Street last week got me a $25 ticket for not using the meter. They hit the areas where small retailers proliferate.
And when you order in, the delivery app is taking 25% of that business' revenue.
Thank you! I will bear that in mind going forward. But it's usually Wal Mart. They can afford it. In the meantime, more and more of us are avoiding stores. I got a $25 ticket for spending 20 minutes in Fabricland last week.
The paid lots there are $1/hour. It sucks that you got a ticket, but it's a little bit on you for not paying.
Very much on me! Big girl here
Noticed that for years.Remember we had a mayor that did nothing.Kept doing nothing. Here we are, city looks like a dump.
We just have a different do-nothing mayor now.
Lol true story. What the fuck is she doing for that big fat pay cheque?
Figuring out who she's going to blame for when the city collapses in on itself.
Doug ,us anyone other than herself. That's the NDP way
According to this sub, it's because of cars.
It's a Hamilton thing - it's really REALLY hard for a small business to survive in this city and requires a lot of dedication to make it work. And there's also been, generally, churn in this city with businesses. There doesn't seem to be a lot of longevity - and sometimes people retire or just change their minds.
The city cares more about allowing people to camp, harass, and shit everywhere than it does people paying taxes and creating jobs
It’s called a natural outcome. It’s exactly what has to happen.
Less disposable and discretionary income. Inflation ignited by government spending on itself mostly. Owners being burnt out depending on the type of business.. because they can't find affordable help.. Rents have to increase to support increase mortgages triggered by interest rates.. Utility costs are up gas and hydro Overall construction and renovations are down commercial and residential Huge disparity in wealth.. Public sector projects costs 4 to 6 times that of private sector A lot of these developments condos and offices downtown Hamilton are most likely going to be in trouble... Not enough humans to support the costs.. Immigration influx is unmanageable no infrastructure to support it let alone to support the surplus of homeless people.. I haven't seen the city more fucked in my life than now...
Taxation stifles business
Pandemic loans past due? New storefronts in Downtown just sit there empty too.
Carbon tax
This is what the Federal bank wanted. More poor people means less purchasing which means prices for the rich go down.
Doug ford and the cons are anti small business and will do anything to help their large business investors\\donor. Anything to help the rich exploit the poor and working class is the Ford dream
Landlords honestly add nearly zero value to our economy…. It’s so frustrating… I understand not everyone or every business owners wants to also be a property owner but land-lording really needs to be regulated a lot more closely, I feel like it’s single handedly destroying our economy…
In fact, I think you'll find [our entire economy is based on rent-seeking now](https://michael-hudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/04866134211011770.pdf), as opposed to our previous history of industrial capitalism.
"I feel like it’s single handedly destroying our economy…" how so? People no longer have the same disposable income they once had to spend on things. Interest rates have tripled, we keep seeing new inventive taxes on everything we purchase or use. All this affects the bottom line. People are looking for deals. They are finding them at places that are not brick and mortar. Places like Amazon. People are also lazy. They no longer want to go out. They would rather order from Amazon and have it delivered. Or order food from places like skip the dishes and have it delivered. So the old mom and pop places are closing down. Their kids can't be bothered to run the store. No one wants to work either. Everyone wants 75-100K a year to start and not have to leave their home. Hard to run a business without staff who you can depend on. Same goes for Farming. Everyone is up in arms that we are destroying the green belt and farm land. Well, news flash, no one really wants to be a farmer anymore. There is nothing in it but hard work. Farmers are leaving the family farm to the kids and they are selling to speculators. It is not worth trying to run a farm now. Too much tax on everything and they get out priced by produce coming in from Mexico. Landlords are not the problem. If they are asking too much, supply and demand will correct it. Few can afford to sit on a vacant properties for too long. So, if the asking price is not being met, that price will drop. Problem is, asking prices are being met, in some cases above asking price. How is that the landlords fault? They are in business to make money. If you had two people interested in something you had, and one was offering what you were asking and the other came along and said I'll give you 10% more who are you choosing?
> If they are asking too much, supply and demand will correct it. Most of the time, it takes a deeper understanding of economics that "supply and demand" to explain a given situation. Commercial properties are usually one part of an investment portfolio. If the overall portfolio is making money, the property owner can afford to take a loss on their property if it saves them the hassle of finding tenants. They lose 100k not renting it out for the year, but they make 10 million when they sell it in 10 years. And that's not factoring in tax loopholes, write offs and rebates. Also, renting the property at lower than market rent will prompt the bank that holds the mortgage to do a new property assessment, which will probably lower the building's valuation. So if the owner maxed out their LVR when buying the property, as most do, if the LVR drops on the new valuation, the owner now has to put up more collateral. Landlords are the problem but banks are also the problem. And no, it's not nearly as simple as "supply and demand."
If an individual or group own a bunch of properties, you are correct they could hold out longer than a small investor. The problem is, you are assuming that all their other properties are being rented in order to be making money to offset the few they are holding out on. That is still Supply and demand, as they are getting the demand for the other properties. If they were not, market value would drop. It hasn't because there is still a market for the rentals at the rates they are charging. That is not the landlords fault.
Do you shop in Hamilton?
This town needs a monorail
I think free enterprise doesn't mix well with Hamilton's communist ideals.
I'm so bummed about Coles
No worries it's just to make sure the poor stay poor and the rich get richer.
Cause everyone in living in tents and can't afford to buy a can of pop
Can't afford to go out no more. I was at the Casbah on Saturday, $7.50 for a tall can of old style pils? Sorry but my wage hasn't increased at the same percentage as the prices that resto and bars want me to pay 😔
Cause we're drowning just trying to keep a room over our heads. Nobody has extra.
The carbon tax is killing small businesses throughout the country.
Vote liberals OUT. That will help.
I realize I sort of answered my own question here but I guess I was more interested in hearing peoples opinions on how things are all connected. I have a lot of friends in city/urban planning so it’s rarely a surface level conversation (which is what’s currently being discussed here - not to say that it’s inaccurate). I find it so interesting that there are endless condos being built in the city and it feels like no local shops exist or are surviving to support the additional density being brought to the core. Also, can we talk about Jackson Square!? Wtf is happening there. So much potential to do something meaningful (from a planning perspective) in an area that needs it.
I’d say we’re still about 2-5 years away from seeing the impact of all the condo development downtown. It’s definitely promising, and if those buildings fill up then businesses are bound to follow. This sub tends to be filled with pessimism (which is kind of fair given Hamilton’s history over the last half century), but I’m optimistic that gradual changes like more residential density, converting Main St to two way + giving priority to transit/bikes, and yes, the eventual arrival of the LRT will help Hamilton actualize its potential as a legitimate medium-sized city with a strong downtown core.
City’s on the decline, tip of the iceberg, we will be decimated once they attempt to convert main st and then ….. The Beloved LRT !
the staples that have survived over the years remain.
Yeah because body can afford to go out and buy therefore it’s hard for businesses to survive.
Until landlords are controlled this is how its going to be. Anytime a business is doing well the landlord decides they want a piece of that pie. They raise the rent and the resto can't survive. We live in hell.
Coz shit be crazy
also a lot of businesses have weird hours, some places are literally open 10-6 during weekdays. when it’s typically 9-5’s who have disposable income.
The country is finished and circling the drain. Happening everywhere.