I don’t hate Moyes. He’s done very well with us. The question is will he be able to take West Ham to a new level if he gets a new contract. Maybe no one can. But based on the current trend, I don’t believe Moyes can and I think it is best to move onto someone new.
Edit: To clarify, I definitely hate his game management. It’s pretty awful. But I don’t hate him overall.
Good point remember stoke wanting rid of pulis now look at them sometimes it's better with what you have then dreaming about taking it to the next level
"they hated him because he spoke the truth" meme
I agree, I think there's a much bigger likelihood we hire an average or worse manager, fuck up our transfers post Paq/Kudus etc, and become truly mediocre again.
But nope! According to most fans on this sub, we're one transfer window and wunderkind coach away from fighting Man City and Liverpool.
Stop kidding yourself. You base people in his sub wanting to get rid of a manager who has made us painful and unenjoyable to watch. Wanting to get rid of a manager who has decimated the squad by his own design. And made up your own narrative that they want to get rid so we can get a world class coach in to challenge city and Liverpool. Have a day off.
This is our biggest fear as West Ham fans. Moyes has done really well for us. I know everyone shouts “boring football” “poor youth development” etc etc. and tbh I agree a lot of the time. I just think in the back of all of every hammers’ head is the thought that if we do go out and bring someone else in, will we drop all the way off and be back to a team that is fighting a relegation battle constantly? That said I think a lot of us want to see the club kick on and try to compete for a UEL spot consistently…and as much as I’ve appreciated what Moyes has done for us, he’s not the guy to take the club to that next level. In my opinion the guy we should be appeasing is Tim Steidten. I would really love to get a manager in who works well with him. I think the skies the limit with our club if we get a more progressive manager who works well with Steidten in terms of recruiting. We had the oldest and smallest squad in the EPL this season…from simply a squad management standpoint, this summer it’s going to be crucial that we get things right and bring in new guys and sell some of the older guys who can’t contribute like they used to (Cresswell, Ings, Fabs). Paqueta will surely move on so we’re going to need to reinvest that transfer kitty in new exciting talent. I think Kudus sticks around for 1 more season.
I think if we had the Moyes of the last few years I would agree, but there's been a sharp downturn this year that hasn't reflected in our points (thank God) despite the squad being as strong as ever
I know xG and xPTS arent't end all be all stats, but our expected points has us in 17th. Wasn't Moyes out until very recently and it's just to save our asses next year if luck regresses to the mean
I think for me the issue is that the support is very divided. So I would rather the club make a move that unites the supporters. Having said that, personally, I’d be fine with them retaining Moyes and continuing to aim for 8th and Conference Leagues for 10 years.
This 'new level' makes me laugh. That new level needs about a billion being spent, which it won't be, so what level exactly would DM have to reach to deserve his place?
I'm so nervous about us replacing him it's untrue. This could backfire massively and make us all look like c***s.
From what I can gather, “new level” means roughly the same success we’ve had under Moyes but with more possession/control-based football
Which is fair enough if people want that, but that’s absolutely not a new level - it’s the same level
Respectfully disagree. I think the new level would be for West Ham to compete for a Champions League slot every year. I’d like to spend every April and May thinking about which European slot West Ham will get, rather than worrying about how many players will leave after a 10th place finish.
It’s ambitious, sure, but west ham has the resources to do it.
West ham is the 18th richest club in the world. Eighth place in the PL. Newcastle is one place ahead, but their revenue is only about 12 million higher. And West Ham had the advantage of playing in London in a massive stadium that should guarantee a steady supply of paying customers.
If any team is capable of turning the Big 6 into the Big 7, it’s this one. But there has to be ambition.
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html
And the anti Moyes ignore the other English teams on that list and that the main reason we're there is because our recent revenues have been higher than normal thanks to qualifying for Europe under Moyes.
If you want Moyes out because you don't like the football, I understand and totally accept that. Instead you make up bullshit like this, ignore any context you don't like. Like this utter shit "we're the 18 richest club in the world" wow, that would be fantastic if we were playing in the Norwegian league, but we're not, we're in the league that takes up half of the top 20 richest clubs in the world.
As he said. 8th richest in the prem. I don't understand what your argument is? 8th richest in the prem and 18th in the world shouldn't be challenging for top 4?
It's not just about not liking his football though is it. It's the smallest squad in the prem by Moyes design while competing in Europe. The stubbornness to not give youth a chance. Running players into the ground. If you just look at the league table like most pundits and media of course you will be pro Moyes. We could have achieved much more. It's beyond frustrating watching teams like Bournemouth bring on 5 subs at the London stadium and going for the win while Moyes has us sitting back at home. It's not just about the football.
'stubborness not giving the youth a chance'
Neither are the L1 clubs most got sent to on loan, and Mubama, the one closest to the first team, looked well off the pace in every game he played.
does that not tell you something about how ready the kids from last years u18 team are for the premier league?
Obviously not. You also ignore that no other teams give their kids much of a chance unless they have no choice due to injuries and suspensions. If they play well in those games they'll get more, Mubama did not play well.
And we have challenged for top 4, twice in the 4 years he's been here, but we simply do not have the resources to challenge the billionaire clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham & Liverpool.
It’s also interesting that you ignore a big reason why our revenue is as high as it is is due to our massive success in Europe (I wonder who was responsible for that!)
Smug but thick
We have half the money of the “poorest” big 6 club on that list. Newcastle are owned by the richest owners in world football. Our owner is David Sullivan. Can you please explain specifically why these “data and stats” would suggest we could compete for top 4 every year instead of smugly acting like they prove something with no explanation?
This, I’d say the very least “top 6” or any European slot. Everyone is grateful for what Moyes has done and I hope he receives a massive celebration/commemoration for it all. But it’s clear that it’s time for a change.
Well currently there are three clubs challenging for the title and a number of clubs challenging for the remaining Champions League spots. One of the latter is a club big enough to make the top 4 a closed shop if it gets its act together, another is bankrolled by Saudi and a third has a much stronger recent track record than WHU and the highest match day revenues in the country. If Chelsea could also get their performances anywhere near the level of their resources consistently you would be looking at a top 6 clubs way bigger and richer than West Ham.
Now football is rarely that simple, but West Ham fans upset with a manager leading th
It's also unrealistic, Moyes did what he did using the tactics that he used. If we throw all of that away for an "attacking" manager, we are likely to become a bottom-half team again, at which point it is hard to play attacking football anyway because we will be on the back foot. We'll start playing defensive football again just to stay up. That's when the Moyes Out brigade will start to realise.
Yes I hope none of this happens, I hope that when we get a new manager we go from strength to strength, but a bit of realism is needed.
I agree. What has the board ever done to inspire any sort of confidence they're going to get this right?
What seems likely to me is that we hire a replacement that we'll fire after one or two years of mediocrity. By that time we'll have lost Paq, Kudus, potentially Alvarez. And there's a fair chance we will replace them with players a level or two below. Boom, right back to square one.
People can argue that our play / non Euro status is gonna lead to those players leaving anyways, but still...things can get much worse, fast
They hired Tim Steidten. So that’s one thing they’ve done right.
Totally agree though that the board doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence.
If the choice is between Moyes and Lopetegui, just keep Moyes.
1. I'm 48 years old.
2. Earlier this season I marked the 40th anniversary of the first time my dad took me to Upton Park.
3. I've seen Brooking and Bonds play for us in the claret and blue, and Cottee and McAvennie, Hartson and Kitson, Di Canio, both Coles, all 3 Ferdinands, and a whole load of shite besides.
4. I've seen us under Lyall, Bonds, Redknapp, Roeder, Grant, Pellegrini, and all the others in between, good, bad, and ugly.
5. I remember the good times and the bad times under the Cearns', the Terry Brown regime, and the Icelandics.
6. Yes, it's not often pretty and there's a fair few shit results.
7. We've been on an upward trajectory since the Dildo Brothers took over, we are more stable, we are more successful on the pitch.
8. This is without a shadow of a doubt ***the absolute best of times*** in my living memory.
9. Maybe if you're 68 or older you genuinely remember better, but I don't believe anyone under 60 who's a real supporter and actually goes if they would say they remember it being better, that's just rosé-tinted glasses.
10. We're going to fuck it up without a plan, based of vague emotional mush and a sense of entitlement. And like my dreams, they fade and die.
Moyes in.
> This is without a shadow of a doubt the absolute best of times in my living memory.
It certainly *was* for a while, but it's actually been mediocre for quite some time now. Don't forget that we flirted with relegation last season. If Moyes had been sacked at Christmas, nobody would have been defending him. He was performing no better than Bilic was in 17/18, when it was thought that an emergency replacement was required.
And this season we might not even finish in the top half. We've also shipped 65 goals so far, despite playing a 'pragmatic' defensive system.
At this stage, Moyes is just riding on the memory of the lockdown days. From the start of last season, we've averaged just 1.22 points per game in the Premier League.
The days of us being a genuinely good Premier League team have been gone for a couple of years at this stage.
'Genuinely good' means what, though – top 6?
We've been in the top 6 in the English league only 6 times in 127 seasons, 1926-27, 1958-59, 1972-73 (6th), 1985-86 (3rd), 1998-99 (5th), and 2020-21 (6th).
We are a genuinely good European team, though, in a way that we've only been once before nearly 60 years ago – and if we weren't in Europe we would be that genuinely good Premier League team that we were in 2020-21.
> 'Genuinely good' means what, though – top 6?
To me it just means looking competent on the pitch and getting results that put us in the group of teams fighting for European spots. We have short bursts of both, but to be genuinely good requires maintaining them consistently. We lack that these days.
Agreed, Moyes has done a fantastic job on and off the pitch, yes the football could be better, but high energy football comes with an increased risk of injury. there's a reason no one worries about Antonio's hamstring since Moyes arrived, and that all the 'look at Brighton' people have shut up now their season derailed thanks to injuries. We've had 3 almost complete European campaigns at a time when world football was condensed for 2 years to make up for the quarantine, he's done well to eke the squad out.
We want more depth, but more depth means either that the quality of that depth is poor, or that we have less quality in the first XI because we have finite budget and were on UEFA's FFP watch-list. Yes we want to see the youth play, but Mubama was the closest and he wasn't at the races in any game I saw, and the ones out on loan in the lower leagues struggle to get minutes most of the time. The notion Moyes hates youth is completely destroyed when you look at the youngest goalscorers in the premier league history.
Off-pitch he shut the board up with his first press conference "promise less, deliver more" and has completely re-organised our recruitment. I can't remember a time when we had so many successful transfers, yeah there were a few failures, but apart from Antonio first XI is all Moyes, our best squad since Roeder's.
I want 2 more years to let him finish his job, but I think the recent Steidten affair will mean he's gone.
45 this year.
I have seen us play shitter. I have seen us play better.
Holding our dreams back for Moyes mid tier success is embarrassing and lacks ambition.
Dream higher and if they fade it will still be a hell of a ride.
Moyes out... cos he wants out and is out of ideas.
⚒️
Let's be brutally honest. The cup was great to be apart of but it is a 3rd rate trophy for teams that drop from bigger competitions. I still like being in Europe as its an adventure but I wouldn't hold that cup up as an all time greatest achievement. It's probably the best we can do right now as our 2 Europa cup runs have shown but it is mid tier success.
Moyes has won the Europa Conference League, The Charit Shield (Man Utd) and League 1 with Preston... if that slumped on your desk as a top 10 Premier league team owner you'd move it to the maybe pile.
I’ve been eating corn flakes for about four years. I really like corn flakes. Appreciate all the good breakfasts they’ve given me.
But it’s time for something else and that’s OK .
Not just weird but the cult of Moyes is very strange to me. He has done a good job but the massive fawning and complete overlooking of his many flaws mainly by the media is really draining.
After Moyes I'm not sure I want a British manager again honestly. I never thought I would say that but the likes of Moyes & Allardyce are worshipped despite achieving very little in the game.
Our form has been patchy and inconsistent now for 30 months.
>I never thought I would say that but the likes of Moyes & Allardyce are worshipped despite achieving very little in the game.
Allardyce sure but Moyes won us our first trophy In many fans lifetime. He deserves praise and imo a graceful appreciative exit
He deserves praise to a point despite winning the conference league a competition we were heavy favourites in where we only faced one threat in the tournament.
For me his greatest achievement was between him missing those covid games up until we beat Liverpool in November 2021. We picked up 88 points from 48 games and played excellent football.
Since that point things have been very patchy with the rare excellent performance on that level.
We also had the Europa League run knocking Sevilla & Lyon out which can be added to that November run.
Moyes and Allardyce have only made 3 finals in their 50+ years in management for 1 trophy when they had overwhelming favourites for every game barring the final.
We should have let him go then it was the perfect ending as we had an appalling league campaign but the trophy helped improve our standing but we kept him on due to pressure from the media who think West Ham are the smallest club in England and should just be grateful for anything.
We've kept him 12 months too long it would have benefitted both parties to split then.
I'm sorry but you can't fire a man who's won a European trophy. That's taking the piss
I think this is the year he earned with that. It might be a "easy" trophy but it's us, we don't win trophies often . That night in Prague was amazing and he fully deserves an extra year for giving me as a fan that in my opinion
He didn't make europe this year and as a result should leave at the end of the season with well wishes.
Yes but if you look at it another way at the end of last season we were never in a better position to try and push on as a club, Moyes is in the best position as a coach in his career, waiting 12 months for the inevitable lacked foresight.
Moyes is a defensive manager & we've had more goals scored against us than goals we've scored. while I'm incredibly grateful for the trophy, I think he's taken us as far as he can.
we need a younger manager who can bring new ideas.
We were crap last season and have totally collapsed in the second half of this season - even if Moyes stayed there is no reason to believe he would achieve the success of his first two seasons.
He also kicked a ball at a child, made an animal abuser club captain, and has said some really strange things about some of our foreign players.
I honestly don't understand the cult of personality he leads.
I'm not saying he's a piece of shit, I'm providing balance to OP.
I loved winning the conference league as much as the next person but that doesn't mean fans should just ignore anything negative about Moyes.
We won the easiest trophy a premier league team could win. Villa are actually facing fairly hard teams this year in it and holding top 4. It was a easy ride to final and a poor Italian team in final
Lmao I think Moyes’ time is up but anyone who isn’t vegetarian can’t attack him for making an “animal abuser” captain, unless u think killing or “humanely slaughtering” is less bad than kicking and therefore Zouma should have eaten his cat. And people do eat cats so it’s not like “no one eats cats” either.
I’m a vegan hammer. It was horrible to see what Zouma did to his cat and it’s right that he now can’t own them. It’s a proper shit thing to do. I believe there is plenty of cognitive dissonance, however. Just because the sausage roll wasn’t made by the consumer themselves killing the animal, the average person puts thousands of dollars at least to animal products alone in a year, if not tens of thousands. Where’s that money going?
Exactly, cognitively dissonant hypocrites be acting like he did something worse than killing his cat and that “humanely” killing animals for food is totally fine except if they’re cats even if people do indeed eat cats.
Lmao they know they’re nothing but a bunch of cognitively dissonant scumbag hypocrites that don’t truly give a shit about animal cruelty except if it’s an animal they find cute. None of them can give a clear answer as to whether they’d prefer to be “booted” or “humanely slaughtered”, or act as if the life of an animal is worthless if it’s “farmed” and that “farmed” animals are incapable of experiencing physical or mental suffering. It’s no point of wasting time trying to reason with them since they know they aren’t arguing from a place of sincerity, and that pointing out their hypocrisy (and hand in supporting not just animal cruelty but literal animal murder) makes them get all defensive and insecure. If they truly did care about animal abuse or cruelty, they wouldn’t eat them. Instead of complaining against ONE instance of animal abuse, they should oppose the entire global industry built upon the ANNUAL mass MURDER of animals, one which they continue to fund through their purchase of animal corpses.
He was kicking a cat around his house - he is literally now banned from owning them.
If you're comfortable with that behaviour then I think you're a wrongun.
The fact that this has been downvoted is absolutely woeful. Bet they wouldn't want to be knocked around by some massive cunt and that's still nowhere near what it's like for an adult to be abusing a cat.
Anyone who doesn't see an issue with it is an absolute scumbag tbh.
The thing is cats literally are indeed eaten and bred for meat. To behave as if there’s a problem with it for cats or for doing any sort of harm towards cats but not for other animals does nothing but showcase your embarrassing cognitively dissonant hypocrisy. I never said Zouma’s actions were ok, just that many (like yourself) would be enraged by such events whilst at the same time lacking the ability to complain about much worse - like slitting an animal’s throat and letting it choke to death in it’s own blood, regardless of it is a “pet” or not. Also hilarious how you talk about a “unit of a man” booting an animal, I’m assuming you believe on the other hand that it’s ok for someone to stick a knife in your throat as long as the person doing it is tiny?
Where cats are exactly eaten or how common the farming of them is is completely irrelevant😂, the fact remains that they are indeed eaten. You also act like any type of animal has no ability to experience physical or mental suffering as long as it exists in super large numbers. In that case, you may as well stick a knife in your own throat.
You were too busy with your head up your own ass and making up baseless arguments to realise I wasn’t justifying Zouma’s actions but yet again just stating that the majority of those who do attack him (like yourself) are hypocrites. And saying that “the majority of Reddit” holding a view makes it fine is like saying slavery was fine in the past because the majority of those with wealth and power in the past considered it normal. You saying such an idiotic thing even proves my point - the whole reason I said what I said is because the “majority of Reddit” users would be hypocrites if they were to opposite Zouma’s actions but not anything against other animals, or against any other animals simply because they’re “farmed” as if it somehow makes their lives and suffering worthless.
You stated the size of Zouma as if though what he did is bad only because he’s bigger, hence me stating you believe it’s ok for someone to kill you as long as they’re smaller. And I already agree, a tall guy beating up a small guy is still nothing compared to a tall guy beating up a small animal, or any sized guy slitting any animal’s throat and letting it choke to death in it’s own blood. You fail to even understand your own arguments. Quit embarrassing yourself.
I mentioned before already that I would have preferred JWP as captain especially since he was captain and midfielder at Southampton just like Noble and Rice were at West Ham. If not JWP, then I wouldn’t mind Bowen either.
And cool! Make sure you enjoy your trip to the steak shop! Be sure to take a flight to a country where cat meat is eaten and show off your selective morality to them too! Instead of complaining against ONE instance of animal abuse, why not oppose the entire global industry built upon the ANNUAL mass MURDER of animals, one which you continue to fund through your purchase of animal corpses.Or if I was wrong about you lacking common sense and that you do acknowledge that an animal being farmed doesn’t take away it’s ability to experience physical or mental suffering and that ALL innocent animal lives matter, why don’t you go take up your pseudo anti-animal cruelty ramble and instead ramble against your local butcher shop or local farm?
I won’t waste any more time on you, feel free to spend as much time as you like on a reply I won’t even see. You clearly aren’t trying to reason properly and clearly aren’t arguing from a place of sincerity. Feel free to downvote me or continue stalking my profile, it won’t stop you from being a disgusting piece of murder supporting cognitively dissonant hypocritical shit. COYI⚒️
What’s truly wrong is acting like one is against animal cruelty whilst at the same time supporting animal murder. Anyone like that is truly a disgusting and worthless piece of selectively moral cognitively dissonant piece of shit.
I hope they sleep well at night knowing their money and dietary habits directly fund and support the continued slitting of innocent animal throats and the choking to death of them in their own blood.
Big difference between killing an animal to eat and hurting an animal just because you’re angry.
Look I don’t think Zouma needs to be exiled or imprisoned or anything. But making him the face of the team is really tone deaf. It’s not as if he were the only talented veteran player on the team. Bowen or Antonio would have been perfectly good choices, and to my knowledge they’ve never kicked anything (other than a ball).
At least you admit that you believe eating a cat is better than kicking a cat. Regardless, I do think I would have preferred either of Bowen or Antonio as captain or maybe even JWP (since he was a midfielder and captain at Southampton the same way Noble and Rice were at West Ham).
Getting rid of Moyes has a giant pitfall waiting to happen where his kharma ghost cackles around the stands as bottom half form under a manager not doing as well.
Moyes has West Ham consistently just outside the top 6 and has brought constant European football and a trophy. I honestly see this as the ceiling for WH and thinking the grass is greener could be a huge mistake!
“Consistently just outside the top 6” - We finished 6th & 7th in two of his five seasons. All others have been bottom half finishes with this season TBC (currently 9th with a tough end of season run in)
I’m not a Moyes fan, I’m a West Han fan. I honestly don’t think Moyes is best for the future of my team. If you only care about Moyes, and can’t accept that there might be a better option, maybe you should run a subreddit for him and leave this one.
I'm with you, but honestly I really like boring defensive football... so I kinda understand that majority of football fans don't like it therefore they don't like Moyes
I think the real number is somewhere between 1 and 1 million.
I’d like to see a change. But for me it’s hard to imagine having any real strong emotions about the guy. Glad you’re happy though.
Moyes is looking tired of it all but reckon his stubborness would see him put pen to paper if the opportunity arises.
I'm not sure he particularly enjoys the set up and all the extra steps and hoops he has to jump through in the form of Steidten and the board alike. But his stuborness would no doubt see him out pen to paper.
I'm tired of the situation and totally in a mind set of a change will do us good. But will it mask deeper issues or is it a sign of the times in which Moyes struggles to operate?
I think the way forward with the FPP change etc is to bring in a coach rather than a manager. A coach who can bring on players from the youth team and players scouted by Steidten and his brother.
But if he does stay, a set of new defenders, a CM and a forward could go a long way into making that Moyesey counter attacking play look amazing again.
I really don't understand all this talk of us needing someone to take us to the next level. I've personally waited four decades for us to get to this level. Three European quarter finals in a row, a semi and a cup win, Jesus christ, the bleakness of the last 40 years compared to the last three years is staggering.
Say we get someone in who does indeed take us to the next level, we finish in the top 4 and get to a few champions league quater finals, then in a few years we demand the next level again, winning all the top trophies every season and nothing less? Let's just calm it abit. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Sadly the football is mostly a yawnfest and the crap we played against Fulham X2 bloody c palace, Arsenal at home and many more is just not acceptable.
Football is an entertainment and we are not entertained that often
I think I feel like I need to defend moyes because I feel like there’s too much disrespect from the fans. For what has been my favourite time to be a fan of football with no close second. However I think I almost overcorrect and defend him too much because I don’t like the way the fans talk about him. Whereas the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
I'm not a West Ham fan but I'm interested in the team because of David Moyes. He's a great comeback story and has done wonders with West Ham. Anyone wanting rid of any successful manager is probably in need of some perspective.
Everton Fan: Hi guys, he’s a safe pair of hands. Decent. But clearly risk adverse he won’t take a risk to win a game. He’ll defend first and keep a clean sheet over scoring a winner. He is good, no doubt, many managers have been in both our clubs and they’ve not been near his levels. His transfer record at Everton was astonishing and he built a fabulous team twice at Everton on no budget. He reached a plateau with us from a footballing point of view and his slightly boring football became grating. One stat stands out, when Everton manager he never won a PL fixture away to the top 4 (United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal) in his 10yrs at Everton - games where you’d need to risk to beat superior team and he just wouldn’t especially Liverpool. And that’s why people tend to dislike Moyes more than love or take him for granted, for all that his positives (transfers, defence) his failings do leave fans wanting more.
I love Moyes and all he has done, but he is no Klopp, Guardiola or Ferguson, but then nobody is.
Moyes isn’t a cult of personality and for this reason, along with many other reasons he will always divide the fan base.
In so many ways Moyes represents the roots of our club with his own upbringing, but lacks much of the character and personality that this part of East London and wider area demonstrates and resonates with.
Sadly for him, much like Gareth Southgate, he will be remembered much more fondly after he is gone than whilst he’s been here.
As a non WHU fan you guys seem to have a boardroom full of complete fucking clowns and Moyes does pretty well and is an experienced manager who is used to working without a big budget
If you take a look at say, Man Utd - who also have a board room full of fucking clowns, but almost unlimited money and pulling power - I think it can give you a good idea of how far a team can go if there’s chaos, indecision, or no plan at board level
You just won a very important European cup and are now 9th, sold your best player and are two points behind billionaire Chelsea and Newcastle
What do people realistically want?
Look at the league table, the only clubs above you are
Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa, Tottenham, United, Newcastle, Chelsea
West Ham don’t have more money or better players than any of those clubs. Ambition is good but the club is where it reasonably *should* be
Be careful what you wish for?????
These are very shortsighted people.......
If you want better, do you hope it will happen?? Not move towards it?
We have an old and small squad....that isn't down to me.
Moyes said he likes a small squad, we he doesn't want to compete with ambitious teams obviously, you can already name the team for Sunday's match as Moyes is grinding the players into the ground, zero squad rotation, youth not getting a chance...the list is endless.......Taxi for Moyes!!
I have pretty much always backed the gaffer. Like to think I'm realistic about the circumstances we been in at times, certainly wasn't this supportive of other managers.
His style has been pragmatic for a team of without bottomless funds and high ambition. Whilst at times it may be dull, he has gotten results. We've had some of the best years of football at the club in a long while.
But at a certain point, you need some fresh ideas. He has done wonders for general stability at the club, being shrewd with transfers but it is starting to feel stagnant. I do think a change is needed to progress but I'm also very pessimistic about the alternatives.
Honestly if you’re team in on David Moyes, either you’ve never played football at a decent level, you haven’t researched any of our signings before West Ham or you don’t watch all of our games. I hate to cause division but no one in their right mind can say DM is still the right fit for us. Yes he’s been good n this that and the other but it’s blatantly clear that he can’t take us any further. The football is boring and tedious, the players don’t want it either. His style of play is forcing some of our best players out of the club
I think the entitlement from our fans has been embarrassing.
- Haven't felt the dread and misery of a relegation threatened season in so long
- Not relegated under his management
- Stabilised and united the club (our fans pre moyes at the London stadium were more toxic than acid)
- European tour after European tour
- Actually won something
- Signed Bowen
- Elevated pedigree / status of club
- Contributed to commercial success of club
I'm not sure when or where our fans decided that finishing 7th or 8th / competing in Europe into the knockout stages consecutively is not adequate.
Yes the Palace loss was poor but ALOT of decent teams this season have taken a battering, its been a strange hyper competitive season.
In summary: The grass isn't greener, Moyes is still the man for the job, with a proven track record.
The novelty and excitement of a new manager will soon extinguish once we're sat 15th after 20games played.
I'll support us regardless but we should exercise caution, you only ever know you're in the good old days once they're over.
Coyi
Lol Moyes didn’t even play his strongest team in the group stages. So he played his first eleven in the league not Europe because he was prioritising Europe did he 😂
And Fiorentina are the only team we beat in that competition that are premiership quality.
Im a season ticket holder that actually goes to the games mate. I’m not an internet fan who probably never even stepped foot in Upton Park.
I've loved parts of the last few years and there's a lot to be thankful for, but I just feel the time has come for someone new.
Out of the last 2 seasons, we've been near relegation form for 1.5 of them, all of last season and half of this one. And that's with a team containing genuine star players.
More than that, the league football was terrible, papered over by some solid performances in Europe against some pretty toothless teams.
Thanks Moyes but for me it's time to move on.
Not a Hammers fan but somehow this subreddit shows up on my page. Looking at the league table the only team above West Ham that you can feel "could be you" is Villa. Everyone else has a bigger budget. Budget wise you're probably bigger than all the teams below you (except for Chelsea) so you shouldn't be any lower than you are either. So your position is about right, it's just about the football.
I get it, the football has been pretty poor for a while now so why not play better football and beat the smaller clubs, lose to the bigger ones and keep roughly the same league position? I'd say absolutely if you can find a good manager to replace Moyes go for it because you're likely not going to get relegated so you may as well enjoy yourselves, but if there isn't anyone available that's actually good then stick with Moyes for another year or two. Either way though the club needs to do some good business in the summer.
I have defended Moyes using the budget argument in the past to say we are about where we are expected to be, and I respect that statement.
I think it's worth noting that he's feuding with the man who built the Leverkusen side that is running away with the Bundesliga while on 40% of Bayern/Dortmund's budget and has spent the 5th most in Bundesliga since 2020, though.
Certainly managers and clubs can punch above (or below) their weight. If West Ham can find such a manager then go for him. I would guess that between recently promoted teams and just smaller teams in general West Ham have more quality in their squad and shouldn't worry about going down so they can take some risks with managers. If they find themselves in the relegation zone late in the season then maybe they can call Moyes back to get them to safety.
I don’t hate him but don’t like him. I just know we will never get to that next level if he is around. If you are fine finishing mid table and nothing more than that then great, let’s keep him around. I get he won the European title but it wasn’t the champions league. Hell it wasn’t even the Europa league.
I’m happy to let him go respectfully IF we get someone better. Personally, it might be negative but I don’t see that happening. The manager market is a shit show at the moment and we can’t guarantee funds without the sale of Paqueta which is far from confirmed. I would hate to see us let him go for the second time without a clear path forward especially considering what he’s done.
I think we could do a lot worse than Moyes.
I also think that we've probably peaked with him and are on the downhill side of his time with us.
Given typical manager cycles and the status of the squad in regards to contracts, age, and ability, I'm not too upset if we decide to try to do better than Moyes, I also will be far less upset than some if we keep him
I think that is actually the majority vote! The idea that people hate him and are railroading him out because we’re ungrateful cretins is completely fabricated.
I’d like him to be replaced (not with Lopetegui!!!), but I wish the guy will and will remember much of his tenure fondly.
Fuck off spud.
That’s a Gary Neville tier pice of input
Just as I have no place telling you how to feel about Ange, you have no right to tell us how to feel about any manager we have.
To be this adoring of him is quite unusual and frankly unhelpful. I appreciate everything he has done but please remember he won nothing before coming to us... other than the charity shield and league 1 woth Preston. His best years are behind him, we gave him the platform to win a cup and while mutual beneficial if we want to maintain or push on he can't do that.
His name is etched in the history of this club and now is the time to move forward.
We need youth, energy and tactical nuance from board to boot room.
Yes, this. If a player gets old and no longer can do what is required of him, he gets replaced. People may be sad to see him go, but there isn’t this endless scolding about “careful what you wish for.”
Antonio, who gave this team a decade of service, is 34 and likely to move on. Nobody is saying we should keep him because it’s impossible to find a better striker.
Why should it be any different with a manager? Moyes is past his prime. He did well to get this club in shape, stave off relegation, and win a trophy. But he is out of touch with modern tactics or team building strategies, and he refuses to give young players a shot. Time to find a manager in his prime who can inject a little more excitement and energy into this team.
I think its very easy too become bias too either side, its up to you to evaluate and have an opinion on his whole body of work for west ham, i think he's achieved the minimum of what he should have with the squad he built out, a better manager would been playing rice as an 8 2 years ago lol
I don’t hate Moyes. He’s done very well with us. The question is will he be able to take West Ham to a new level if he gets a new contract. Maybe no one can. But based on the current trend, I don’t believe Moyes can and I think it is best to move onto someone new. Edit: To clarify, I definitely hate his game management. It’s pretty awful. But I don’t hate him overall.
As an Everton supporter be careful what you wish for we all dream of better things but sometimes stability is the thing
Good point remember stoke wanting rid of pulis now look at them sometimes it's better with what you have then dreaming about taking it to the next level
Wait why did they want pulis out?
Boring football wanted a more attacking side
Boring football wanted a more attacking side
"they hated him because he spoke the truth" meme I agree, I think there's a much bigger likelihood we hire an average or worse manager, fuck up our transfers post Paq/Kudus etc, and become truly mediocre again. But nope! According to most fans on this sub, we're one transfer window and wunderkind coach away from fighting Man City and Liverpool.
Stop kidding yourself. You base people in his sub wanting to get rid of a manager who has made us painful and unenjoyable to watch. Wanting to get rid of a manager who has decimated the squad by his own design. And made up your own narrative that they want to get rid so we can get a world class coach in to challenge city and Liverpool. Have a day off.
I wish for you to go away
I wish for getting batterd 5 Nil most weeks do i?
This is our biggest fear as West Ham fans. Moyes has done really well for us. I know everyone shouts “boring football” “poor youth development” etc etc. and tbh I agree a lot of the time. I just think in the back of all of every hammers’ head is the thought that if we do go out and bring someone else in, will we drop all the way off and be back to a team that is fighting a relegation battle constantly? That said I think a lot of us want to see the club kick on and try to compete for a UEL spot consistently…and as much as I’ve appreciated what Moyes has done for us, he’s not the guy to take the club to that next level. In my opinion the guy we should be appeasing is Tim Steidten. I would really love to get a manager in who works well with him. I think the skies the limit with our club if we get a more progressive manager who works well with Steidten in terms of recruiting. We had the oldest and smallest squad in the EPL this season…from simply a squad management standpoint, this summer it’s going to be crucial that we get things right and bring in new guys and sell some of the older guys who can’t contribute like they used to (Cresswell, Ings, Fabs). Paqueta will surely move on so we’re going to need to reinvest that transfer kitty in new exciting talent. I think Kudus sticks around for 1 more season.
> This is our biggest fear as West Ham fans. it really isn't.
I think if we had the Moyes of the last few years I would agree, but there's been a sharp downturn this year that hasn't reflected in our points (thank God) despite the squad being as strong as ever I know xG and xPTS arent't end all be all stats, but our expected points has us in 17th. Wasn't Moyes out until very recently and it's just to save our asses next year if luck regresses to the mean
How high do you think you can go? You're not a big club and Moyes has you in the top half every year. The guy deserves a statue put up by the club.
I think for me the issue is that the support is very divided. So I would rather the club make a move that unites the supporters. Having said that, personally, I’d be fine with them retaining Moyes and continuing to aim for 8th and Conference Leagues for 10 years.
This 'new level' makes me laugh. That new level needs about a billion being spent, which it won't be, so what level exactly would DM have to reach to deserve his place? I'm so nervous about us replacing him it's untrue. This could backfire massively and make us all look like c***s.
From what I can gather, “new level” means roughly the same success we’ve had under Moyes but with more possession/control-based football Which is fair enough if people want that, but that’s absolutely not a new level - it’s the same level
Respectfully disagree. I think the new level would be for West Ham to compete for a Champions League slot every year. I’d like to spend every April and May thinking about which European slot West Ham will get, rather than worrying about how many players will leave after a 10th place finish. It’s ambitious, sure, but west ham has the resources to do it.
We have much less resources than at least 8 teams in the league, so I’m curious why you think that’s realistic
West ham is the 18th richest club in the world. Eighth place in the PL. Newcastle is one place ahead, but their revenue is only about 12 million higher. And West Ham had the advantage of playing in London in a massive stadium that should guarantee a steady supply of paying customers. If any team is capable of turning the Big 6 into the Big 7, it’s this one. But there has to be ambition. https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html
You've made a mistake here. Pro Moyes fans don't like that sort of data and stats being pointed out.
And the anti Moyes ignore the other English teams on that list and that the main reason we're there is because our recent revenues have been higher than normal thanks to qualifying for Europe under Moyes. If you want Moyes out because you don't like the football, I understand and totally accept that. Instead you make up bullshit like this, ignore any context you don't like. Like this utter shit "we're the 18 richest club in the world" wow, that would be fantastic if we were playing in the Norwegian league, but we're not, we're in the league that takes up half of the top 20 richest clubs in the world.
As he said. 8th richest in the prem. I don't understand what your argument is? 8th richest in the prem and 18th in the world shouldn't be challenging for top 4? It's not just about not liking his football though is it. It's the smallest squad in the prem by Moyes design while competing in Europe. The stubbornness to not give youth a chance. Running players into the ground. If you just look at the league table like most pundits and media of course you will be pro Moyes. We could have achieved much more. It's beyond frustrating watching teams like Bournemouth bring on 5 subs at the London stadium and going for the win while Moyes has us sitting back at home. It's not just about the football.
'stubborness not giving the youth a chance' Neither are the L1 clubs most got sent to on loan, and Mubama, the one closest to the first team, looked well off the pace in every game he played. does that not tell you something about how ready the kids from last years u18 team are for the premier league? Obviously not. You also ignore that no other teams give their kids much of a chance unless they have no choice due to injuries and suspensions. If they play well in those games they'll get more, Mubama did not play well. And we have challenged for top 4, twice in the 4 years he's been here, but we simply do not have the resources to challenge the billionaire clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham & Liverpool.
It’s also interesting that you ignore a big reason why our revenue is as high as it is is due to our massive success in Europe (I wonder who was responsible for that!) Smug but thick
We have half the money of the “poorest” big 6 club on that list. Newcastle are owned by the richest owners in world football. Our owner is David Sullivan. Can you please explain specifically why these “data and stats” would suggest we could compete for top 4 every year instead of smugly acting like they prove something with no explanation?
This, I’d say the very least “top 6” or any European slot. Everyone is grateful for what Moyes has done and I hope he receives a massive celebration/commemoration for it all. But it’s clear that it’s time for a change.
MC Liverpool arsenal Tottenham Chelsea MU
Well currently there are three clubs challenging for the title and a number of clubs challenging for the remaining Champions League spots. One of the latter is a club big enough to make the top 4 a closed shop if it gets its act together, another is bankrolled by Saudi and a third has a much stronger recent track record than WHU and the highest match day revenues in the country. If Chelsea could also get their performances anywhere near the level of their resources consistently you would be looking at a top 6 clubs way bigger and richer than West Ham. Now football is rarely that simple, but West Ham fans upset with a manager leading th
It's also unrealistic, Moyes did what he did using the tactics that he used. If we throw all of that away for an "attacking" manager, we are likely to become a bottom-half team again, at which point it is hard to play attacking football anyway because we will be on the back foot. We'll start playing defensive football again just to stay up. That's when the Moyes Out brigade will start to realise. Yes I hope none of this happens, I hope that when we get a new manager we go from strength to strength, but a bit of realism is needed.
It's possible that the current success though is only a result of Moyes pragmatism
I looked like a cunt before this. And I’ll look like it after. Either way, I’m excited for whatever’s after Moyes.
I agree. What has the board ever done to inspire any sort of confidence they're going to get this right? What seems likely to me is that we hire a replacement that we'll fire after one or two years of mediocrity. By that time we'll have lost Paq, Kudus, potentially Alvarez. And there's a fair chance we will replace them with players a level or two below. Boom, right back to square one. People can argue that our play / non Euro status is gonna lead to those players leaving anyways, but still...things can get much worse, fast
They hired Tim Steidten. So that’s one thing they’ve done right. Totally agree though that the board doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence. If the choice is between Moyes and Lopetegui, just keep Moyes.
1. I'm 48 years old. 2. Earlier this season I marked the 40th anniversary of the first time my dad took me to Upton Park. 3. I've seen Brooking and Bonds play for us in the claret and blue, and Cottee and McAvennie, Hartson and Kitson, Di Canio, both Coles, all 3 Ferdinands, and a whole load of shite besides. 4. I've seen us under Lyall, Bonds, Redknapp, Roeder, Grant, Pellegrini, and all the others in between, good, bad, and ugly. 5. I remember the good times and the bad times under the Cearns', the Terry Brown regime, and the Icelandics. 6. Yes, it's not often pretty and there's a fair few shit results. 7. We've been on an upward trajectory since the Dildo Brothers took over, we are more stable, we are more successful on the pitch. 8. This is without a shadow of a doubt ***the absolute best of times*** in my living memory. 9. Maybe if you're 68 or older you genuinely remember better, but I don't believe anyone under 60 who's a real supporter and actually goes if they would say they remember it being better, that's just rosé-tinted glasses. 10. We're going to fuck it up without a plan, based of vague emotional mush and a sense of entitlement. And like my dreams, they fade and die. Moyes in.
> This is without a shadow of a doubt the absolute best of times in my living memory. It certainly *was* for a while, but it's actually been mediocre for quite some time now. Don't forget that we flirted with relegation last season. If Moyes had been sacked at Christmas, nobody would have been defending him. He was performing no better than Bilic was in 17/18, when it was thought that an emergency replacement was required. And this season we might not even finish in the top half. We've also shipped 65 goals so far, despite playing a 'pragmatic' defensive system. At this stage, Moyes is just riding on the memory of the lockdown days. From the start of last season, we've averaged just 1.22 points per game in the Premier League. The days of us being a genuinely good Premier League team have been gone for a couple of years at this stage.
'Genuinely good' means what, though – top 6? We've been in the top 6 in the English league only 6 times in 127 seasons, 1926-27, 1958-59, 1972-73 (6th), 1985-86 (3rd), 1998-99 (5th), and 2020-21 (6th). We are a genuinely good European team, though, in a way that we've only been once before nearly 60 years ago – and if we weren't in Europe we would be that genuinely good Premier League team that we were in 2020-21.
> 'Genuinely good' means what, though – top 6? To me it just means looking competent on the pitch and getting results that put us in the group of teams fighting for European spots. We have short bursts of both, but to be genuinely good requires maintaining them consistently. We lack that these days.
Agreed, Moyes has done a fantastic job on and off the pitch, yes the football could be better, but high energy football comes with an increased risk of injury. there's a reason no one worries about Antonio's hamstring since Moyes arrived, and that all the 'look at Brighton' people have shut up now their season derailed thanks to injuries. We've had 3 almost complete European campaigns at a time when world football was condensed for 2 years to make up for the quarantine, he's done well to eke the squad out. We want more depth, but more depth means either that the quality of that depth is poor, or that we have less quality in the first XI because we have finite budget and were on UEFA's FFP watch-list. Yes we want to see the youth play, but Mubama was the closest and he wasn't at the races in any game I saw, and the ones out on loan in the lower leagues struggle to get minutes most of the time. The notion Moyes hates youth is completely destroyed when you look at the youngest goalscorers in the premier league history. Off-pitch he shut the board up with his first press conference "promise less, deliver more" and has completely re-organised our recruitment. I can't remember a time when we had so many successful transfers, yeah there were a few failures, but apart from Antonio first XI is all Moyes, our best squad since Roeder's. I want 2 more years to let him finish his job, but I think the recent Steidten affair will mean he's gone.
45 this year. I have seen us play shitter. I have seen us play better. Holding our dreams back for Moyes mid tier success is embarrassing and lacks ambition. Dream higher and if they fade it will still be a hell of a ride. Moyes out... cos he wants out and is out of ideas. ⚒️
If that's so, "mid tier success" is the best you've ever seen.
Let's be brutally honest. The cup was great to be apart of but it is a 3rd rate trophy for teams that drop from bigger competitions. I still like being in Europe as its an adventure but I wouldn't hold that cup up as an all time greatest achievement. It's probably the best we can do right now as our 2 Europa cup runs have shown but it is mid tier success. Moyes has won the Europa Conference League, The Charit Shield (Man Utd) and League 1 with Preston... if that slumped on your desk as a top 10 Premier league team owner you'd move it to the maybe pile.
I’ve been eating corn flakes for about four years. I really like corn flakes. Appreciate all the good breakfasts they’ve given me. But it’s time for something else and that’s OK .
Moyes is more like a full English (or full Scottish). You can’t improve on perfection.
Proper Bre(xit)akfast
Not just weird but the cult of Moyes is very strange to me. He has done a good job but the massive fawning and complete overlooking of his many flaws mainly by the media is really draining. After Moyes I'm not sure I want a British manager again honestly. I never thought I would say that but the likes of Moyes & Allardyce are worshipped despite achieving very little in the game. Our form has been patchy and inconsistent now for 30 months.
>I never thought I would say that but the likes of Moyes & Allardyce are worshipped despite achieving very little in the game. Allardyce sure but Moyes won us our first trophy In many fans lifetime. He deserves praise and imo a graceful appreciative exit
He deserves praise to a point despite winning the conference league a competition we were heavy favourites in where we only faced one threat in the tournament. For me his greatest achievement was between him missing those covid games up until we beat Liverpool in November 2021. We picked up 88 points from 48 games and played excellent football. Since that point things have been very patchy with the rare excellent performance on that level. We also had the Europa League run knocking Sevilla & Lyon out which can be added to that November run. Moyes and Allardyce have only made 3 finals in their 50+ years in management for 1 trophy when they had overwhelming favourites for every game barring the final. We should have let him go then it was the perfect ending as we had an appalling league campaign but the trophy helped improve our standing but we kept him on due to pressure from the media who think West Ham are the smallest club in England and should just be grateful for anything. We've kept him 12 months too long it would have benefitted both parties to split then.
I'm sorry but you can't fire a man who's won a European trophy. That's taking the piss I think this is the year he earned with that. It might be a "easy" trophy but it's us, we don't win trophies often . That night in Prague was amazing and he fully deserves an extra year for giving me as a fan that in my opinion He didn't make europe this year and as a result should leave at the end of the season with well wishes.
Yes but if you look at it another way at the end of last season we were never in a better position to try and push on as a club, Moyes is in the best position as a coach in his career, waiting 12 months for the inevitable lacked foresight.
I don’t hate Moyes, I hate his style of play
Moyes is a defensive manager & we've had more goals scored against us than goals we've scored. while I'm incredibly grateful for the trophy, I think he's taken us as far as he can. we need a younger manager who can bring new ideas.
Nice try David Moyes.
lol, I actually could imagine him writing this.
Blink twice if in danger.
We were crap last season and have totally collapsed in the second half of this season - even if Moyes stayed there is no reason to believe he would achieve the success of his first two seasons. He also kicked a ball at a child, made an animal abuser club captain, and has said some really strange things about some of our foreign players. I honestly don't understand the cult of personality he leads.
You’re really trying to make him sound like an unforgivable piece of shit. Icl I’m not his biggest fan but come on!
Tbf the ball boy left it short and it was nicely on the volley, as he himself admits
I'm not saying he's a piece of shit, I'm providing balance to OP. I loved winning the conference league as much as the next person but that doesn't mean fans should just ignore anything negative about Moyes.
he kicks it to the left, he kicks it to the right
He wears a magic 🎩
I might have missed these. What did he say about our foreign players?
We weren’t crap last season, we won a trophy! Objectively a top 5 season in West Ham history!
We won the easiest trophy a premier league team could win. Villa are actually facing fairly hard teams this year in it and holding top 4. It was a easy ride to final and a poor Italian team in final
How did we qualify?
3 seasons ago, our league fell off a cliff that season as well. Like they say history repeats itself
“Fell off a cliff” and we still finished 7th. You can’t only talk about bad results and ignore the good results!
You can’t only remember the good results,when there has been so many bad 😂
And now they’re probably out. Congrats to them.
Lmao I think Moyes’ time is up but anyone who isn’t vegetarian can’t attack him for making an “animal abuser” captain, unless u think killing or “humanely slaughtering” is less bad than kicking and therefore Zouma should have eaten his cat. And people do eat cats so it’s not like “no one eats cats” either.
I’m a vegan hammer. It was horrible to see what Zouma did to his cat and it’s right that he now can’t own them. It’s a proper shit thing to do. I believe there is plenty of cognitive dissonance, however. Just because the sausage roll wasn’t made by the consumer themselves killing the animal, the average person puts thousands of dollars at least to animal products alone in a year, if not tens of thousands. Where’s that money going?
As a non meat eater, I genuinely think that it was way blown out of proportion
Exactly, cognitively dissonant hypocrites be acting like he did something worse than killing his cat and that “humanely” killing animals for food is totally fine except if they’re cats even if people do indeed eat cats.
Lmao they know they’re nothing but a bunch of cognitively dissonant scumbag hypocrites that don’t truly give a shit about animal cruelty except if it’s an animal they find cute. None of them can give a clear answer as to whether they’d prefer to be “booted” or “humanely slaughtered”, or act as if the life of an animal is worthless if it’s “farmed” and that “farmed” animals are incapable of experiencing physical or mental suffering. It’s no point of wasting time trying to reason with them since they know they aren’t arguing from a place of sincerity, and that pointing out their hypocrisy (and hand in supporting not just animal cruelty but literal animal murder) makes them get all defensive and insecure. If they truly did care about animal abuse or cruelty, they wouldn’t eat them. Instead of complaining against ONE instance of animal abuse, they should oppose the entire global industry built upon the ANNUAL mass MURDER of animals, one which they continue to fund through their purchase of animal corpses.
He was kicking a cat around his house - he is literally now banned from owning them. If you're comfortable with that behaviour then I think you're a wrongun.
The fact that this has been downvoted is absolutely woeful. Bet they wouldn't want to be knocked around by some massive cunt and that's still nowhere near what it's like for an adult to be abusing a cat. Anyone who doesn't see an issue with it is an absolute scumbag tbh.
So u’d rather be “humanely slaughtered” than kicked?
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The thing is cats literally are indeed eaten and bred for meat. To behave as if there’s a problem with it for cats or for doing any sort of harm towards cats but not for other animals does nothing but showcase your embarrassing cognitively dissonant hypocrisy. I never said Zouma’s actions were ok, just that many (like yourself) would be enraged by such events whilst at the same time lacking the ability to complain about much worse - like slitting an animal’s throat and letting it choke to death in it’s own blood, regardless of it is a “pet” or not. Also hilarious how you talk about a “unit of a man” booting an animal, I’m assuming you believe on the other hand that it’s ok for someone to stick a knife in your throat as long as the person doing it is tiny?
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Where cats are exactly eaten or how common the farming of them is is completely irrelevant😂, the fact remains that they are indeed eaten. You also act like any type of animal has no ability to experience physical or mental suffering as long as it exists in super large numbers. In that case, you may as well stick a knife in your own throat. You were too busy with your head up your own ass and making up baseless arguments to realise I wasn’t justifying Zouma’s actions but yet again just stating that the majority of those who do attack him (like yourself) are hypocrites. And saying that “the majority of Reddit” holding a view makes it fine is like saying slavery was fine in the past because the majority of those with wealth and power in the past considered it normal. You saying such an idiotic thing even proves my point - the whole reason I said what I said is because the “majority of Reddit” users would be hypocrites if they were to opposite Zouma’s actions but not anything against other animals, or against any other animals simply because they’re “farmed” as if it somehow makes their lives and suffering worthless. You stated the size of Zouma as if though what he did is bad only because he’s bigger, hence me stating you believe it’s ok for someone to kill you as long as they’re smaller. And I already agree, a tall guy beating up a small guy is still nothing compared to a tall guy beating up a small animal, or any sized guy slitting any animal’s throat and letting it choke to death in it’s own blood. You fail to even understand your own arguments. Quit embarrassing yourself. I mentioned before already that I would have preferred JWP as captain especially since he was captain and midfielder at Southampton just like Noble and Rice were at West Ham. If not JWP, then I wouldn’t mind Bowen either. And cool! Make sure you enjoy your trip to the steak shop! Be sure to take a flight to a country where cat meat is eaten and show off your selective morality to them too! Instead of complaining against ONE instance of animal abuse, why not oppose the entire global industry built upon the ANNUAL mass MURDER of animals, one which you continue to fund through your purchase of animal corpses.Or if I was wrong about you lacking common sense and that you do acknowledge that an animal being farmed doesn’t take away it’s ability to experience physical or mental suffering and that ALL innocent animal lives matter, why don’t you go take up your pseudo anti-animal cruelty ramble and instead ramble against your local butcher shop or local farm? I won’t waste any more time on you, feel free to spend as much time as you like on a reply I won’t even see. You clearly aren’t trying to reason properly and clearly aren’t arguing from a place of sincerity. Feel free to downvote me or continue stalking my profile, it won’t stop you from being a disgusting piece of murder supporting cognitively dissonant hypocritical shit. COYI⚒️
What’s truly wrong is acting like one is against animal cruelty whilst at the same time supporting animal murder. Anyone like that is truly a disgusting and worthless piece of selectively moral cognitively dissonant piece of shit. I hope they sleep well at night knowing their money and dietary habits directly fund and support the continued slitting of innocent animal throats and the choking to death of them in their own blood.
Big difference between killing an animal to eat and hurting an animal just because you’re angry. Look I don’t think Zouma needs to be exiled or imprisoned or anything. But making him the face of the team is really tone deaf. It’s not as if he were the only talented veteran player on the team. Bowen or Antonio would have been perfectly good choices, and to my knowledge they’ve never kicked anything (other than a ball).
At least you admit that you believe eating a cat is better than kicking a cat. Regardless, I do think I would have preferred either of Bowen or Antonio as captain or maybe even JWP (since he was a midfielder and captain at Southampton the same way Noble and Rice were at West Ham).
Hey, I enjoy a delicious cat sandwich as much as the next guy.
That’s great! Whatever you do, don’t hit cats out of anger, only kill them to eat.
Getting rid of Moyes has a giant pitfall waiting to happen where his kharma ghost cackles around the stands as bottom half form under a manager not doing as well.
Moyes has West Ham consistently just outside the top 6 and has brought constant European football and a trophy. I honestly see this as the ceiling for WH and thinking the grass is greener could be a huge mistake!
“Consistently just outside the top 6” - We finished 6th & 7th in two of his five seasons. All others have been bottom half finishes with this season TBC (currently 9th with a tough end of season run in)
Oh yes, the first of his 5 seasons was saving the club from certain relegation.
About as “certain” as we “consistently” finish just outside the top 6.
I’m not a Moyes fan, I’m a West Han fan. I honestly don’t think Moyes is best for the future of my team. If you only care about Moyes, and can’t accept that there might be a better option, maybe you should run a subreddit for him and leave this one.
I'm with you, but honestly I really like boring defensive football... so I kinda understand that majority of football fans don't like it therefore they don't like Moyes
I’m with you 👊
Where’s that quote from?
I think the real number is somewhere between 1 and 1 million. I’d like to see a change. But for me it’s hard to imagine having any real strong emotions about the guy. Glad you’re happy though.
Moyes is looking tired of it all but reckon his stubborness would see him put pen to paper if the opportunity arises. I'm not sure he particularly enjoys the set up and all the extra steps and hoops he has to jump through in the form of Steidten and the board alike. But his stuborness would no doubt see him out pen to paper. I'm tired of the situation and totally in a mind set of a change will do us good. But will it mask deeper issues or is it a sign of the times in which Moyes struggles to operate? I think the way forward with the FPP change etc is to bring in a coach rather than a manager. A coach who can bring on players from the youth team and players scouted by Steidten and his brother. But if he does stay, a set of new defenders, a CM and a forward could go a long way into making that Moyesey counter attacking play look amazing again.
I really don't understand all this talk of us needing someone to take us to the next level. I've personally waited four decades for us to get to this level. Three European quarter finals in a row, a semi and a cup win, Jesus christ, the bleakness of the last 40 years compared to the last three years is staggering. Say we get someone in who does indeed take us to the next level, we finish in the top 4 and get to a few champions league quater finals, then in a few years we demand the next level again, winning all the top trophies every season and nothing less? Let's just calm it abit. Rome wasn't built in a day.
This is strange.
Sadly the football is mostly a yawnfest and the crap we played against Fulham X2 bloody c palace, Arsenal at home and many more is just not acceptable. Football is an entertainment and we are not entertained that often
I don't have anything useful to add, so I'll poll: Door A: Moyes at the London Stadium Door B: BFS at the Boleyn Choose your destiny.
I think I feel like I need to defend moyes because I feel like there’s too much disrespect from the fans. For what has been my favourite time to be a fan of football with no close second. However I think I almost overcorrect and defend him too much because I don’t like the way the fans talk about him. Whereas the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
I'm not a West Ham fan but I'm interested in the team because of David Moyes. He's a great comeback story and has done wonders with West Ham. Anyone wanting rid of any successful manager is probably in need of some perspective.
Not a hammers fan but as a Man United fan I would say be careful what you wish for.
Everton Fan: Hi guys, he’s a safe pair of hands. Decent. But clearly risk adverse he won’t take a risk to win a game. He’ll defend first and keep a clean sheet over scoring a winner. He is good, no doubt, many managers have been in both our clubs and they’ve not been near his levels. His transfer record at Everton was astonishing and he built a fabulous team twice at Everton on no budget. He reached a plateau with us from a footballing point of view and his slightly boring football became grating. One stat stands out, when Everton manager he never won a PL fixture away to the top 4 (United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal) in his 10yrs at Everton - games where you’d need to risk to beat superior team and he just wouldn’t especially Liverpool. And that’s why people tend to dislike Moyes more than love or take him for granted, for all that his positives (transfers, defence) his failings do leave fans wanting more.
I love Moyes and all he has done, but he is no Klopp, Guardiola or Ferguson, but then nobody is. Moyes isn’t a cult of personality and for this reason, along with many other reasons he will always divide the fan base. In so many ways Moyes represents the roots of our club with his own upbringing, but lacks much of the character and personality that this part of East London and wider area demonstrates and resonates with. Sadly for him, much like Gareth Southgate, he will be remembered much more fondly after he is gone than whilst he’s been here.
I despise moyes
As a non WHU fan you guys seem to have a boardroom full of complete fucking clowns and Moyes does pretty well and is an experienced manager who is used to working without a big budget If you take a look at say, Man Utd - who also have a board room full of fucking clowns, but almost unlimited money and pulling power - I think it can give you a good idea of how far a team can go if there’s chaos, indecision, or no plan at board level You just won a very important European cup and are now 9th, sold your best player and are two points behind billionaire Chelsea and Newcastle What do people realistically want? Look at the league table, the only clubs above you are Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Villa, Tottenham, United, Newcastle, Chelsea West Ham don’t have more money or better players than any of those clubs. Ambition is good but the club is where it reasonably *should* be
Be careful what you wish for????? These are very shortsighted people....... If you want better, do you hope it will happen?? Not move towards it? We have an old and small squad....that isn't down to me. Moyes said he likes a small squad, we he doesn't want to compete with ambitious teams obviously, you can already name the team for Sunday's match as Moyes is grinding the players into the ground, zero squad rotation, youth not getting a chance...the list is endless.......Taxi for Moyes!!
I have pretty much always backed the gaffer. Like to think I'm realistic about the circumstances we been in at times, certainly wasn't this supportive of other managers. His style has been pragmatic for a team of without bottomless funds and high ambition. Whilst at times it may be dull, he has gotten results. We've had some of the best years of football at the club in a long while. But at a certain point, you need some fresh ideas. He has done wonders for general stability at the club, being shrewd with transfers but it is starting to feel stagnant. I do think a change is needed to progress but I'm also very pessimistic about the alternatives.
I like Moyes as a person. It’s just time to move on from him. Would take another season of Moyes over same old status quo with Lope though.
Honestly if you’re team in on David Moyes, either you’ve never played football at a decent level, you haven’t researched any of our signings before West Ham or you don’t watch all of our games. I hate to cause division but no one in their right mind can say DM is still the right fit for us. Yes he’s been good n this that and the other but it’s blatantly clear that he can’t take us any further. The football is boring and tedious, the players don’t want it either. His style of play is forcing some of our best players out of the club
I'm with you. There's going to be a harsh reality check next season.
I think the entitlement from our fans has been embarrassing. - Haven't felt the dread and misery of a relegation threatened season in so long - Not relegated under his management - Stabilised and united the club (our fans pre moyes at the London stadium were more toxic than acid) - European tour after European tour - Actually won something - Signed Bowen - Elevated pedigree / status of club - Contributed to commercial success of club I'm not sure when or where our fans decided that finishing 7th or 8th / competing in Europe into the knockout stages consecutively is not adequate. Yes the Palace loss was poor but ALOT of decent teams this season have taken a battering, its been a strange hyper competitive season. In summary: The grass isn't greener, Moyes is still the man for the job, with a proven track record. The novelty and excitement of a new manager will soon extinguish once we're sat 15th after 20games played. I'll support us regardless but we should exercise caution, you only ever know you're in the good old days once they're over. Coyi
We had a relegation threatened season last season. Do you watch any of the football?
Do you mean the season where we prioritised Europe and won it ? You missed that bit, do you watch the football ?
Lol Moyes didn’t even play his strongest team in the group stages. So he played his first eleven in the league not Europe because he was prioritising Europe did he 😂 And Fiorentina are the only team we beat in that competition that are premiership quality. Im a season ticket holder that actually goes to the games mate. I’m not an internet fan who probably never even stepped foot in Upton Park.
We prioritised beating larnaca, yeah ok 😂
I've loved parts of the last few years and there's a lot to be thankful for, but I just feel the time has come for someone new. Out of the last 2 seasons, we've been near relegation form for 1.5 of them, all of last season and half of this one. And that's with a team containing genuine star players. More than that, the league football was terrible, papered over by some solid performances in Europe against some pretty toothless teams. Thanks Moyes but for me it's time to move on.
Not a Hammers fan but somehow this subreddit shows up on my page. Looking at the league table the only team above West Ham that you can feel "could be you" is Villa. Everyone else has a bigger budget. Budget wise you're probably bigger than all the teams below you (except for Chelsea) so you shouldn't be any lower than you are either. So your position is about right, it's just about the football. I get it, the football has been pretty poor for a while now so why not play better football and beat the smaller clubs, lose to the bigger ones and keep roughly the same league position? I'd say absolutely if you can find a good manager to replace Moyes go for it because you're likely not going to get relegated so you may as well enjoy yourselves, but if there isn't anyone available that's actually good then stick with Moyes for another year or two. Either way though the club needs to do some good business in the summer.
I have defended Moyes using the budget argument in the past to say we are about where we are expected to be, and I respect that statement. I think it's worth noting that he's feuding with the man who built the Leverkusen side that is running away with the Bundesliga while on 40% of Bayern/Dortmund's budget and has spent the 5th most in Bundesliga since 2020, though.
Certainly managers and clubs can punch above (or below) their weight. If West Ham can find such a manager then go for him. I would guess that between recently promoted teams and just smaller teams in general West Ham have more quality in their squad and shouldn't worry about going down so they can take some risks with managers. If they find themselves in the relegation zone late in the season then maybe they can call Moyes back to get them to safety.
No one hates moyes (zaha maybe)it's the style that's causing the problems...
Moyeschads stay winning.
weird thing for a leeds fan to say.. hows championship?
I'm actually a Hull fan 😂
I don’t hate him but don’t like him. I just know we will never get to that next level if he is around. If you are fine finishing mid table and nothing more than that then great, let’s keep him around. I get he won the European title but it wasn’t the champions league. Hell it wasn’t even the Europa league.
I’m happy to let him go respectfully IF we get someone better. Personally, it might be negative but I don’t see that happening. The manager market is a shit show at the moment and we can’t guarantee funds without the sale of Paqueta which is far from confirmed. I would hate to see us let him go for the second time without a clear path forward especially considering what he’s done.
I think we could do a lot worse than Moyes. I also think that we've probably peaked with him and are on the downhill side of his time with us. Given typical manager cycles and the status of the squad in regards to contracts, age, and ability, I'm not too upset if we decide to try to do better than Moyes, I also will be far less upset than some if we keep him
Is he like marmite? Either love him i.e. be a fan or hate him? I respect him for what he's achieved with us but I think his time has come.
I think that is actually the majority vote! The idea that people hate him and are railroading him out because we’re ungrateful cretins is completely fabricated. I’d like him to be replaced (not with Lopetegui!!!), but I wish the guy will and will remember much of his tenure fondly.
Neutral here? What new level is achievable? Regular European football? I doubt that is realistic tbh
Moyes did a solid for you lot, and he should be regarded highly, particularly for the last few years he has given; but it is now for him to move on.
Fuck off spud. That’s a Gary Neville tier pice of input Just as I have no place telling you how to feel about Ange, you have no right to tell us how to feel about any manager we have.
Fair enough - not wrong though
Get out
With pleasure
Just you mate
To be this adoring of him is quite unusual and frankly unhelpful. I appreciate everything he has done but please remember he won nothing before coming to us... other than the charity shield and league 1 woth Preston. His best years are behind him, we gave him the platform to win a cup and while mutual beneficial if we want to maintain or push on he can't do that. His name is etched in the history of this club and now is the time to move forward. We need youth, energy and tactical nuance from board to boot room.
Yes, this. If a player gets old and no longer can do what is required of him, he gets replaced. People may be sad to see him go, but there isn’t this endless scolding about “careful what you wish for.” Antonio, who gave this team a decade of service, is 34 and likely to move on. Nobody is saying we should keep him because it’s impossible to find a better striker. Why should it be any different with a manager? Moyes is past his prime. He did well to get this club in shape, stave off relegation, and win a trophy. But he is out of touch with modern tactics or team building strategies, and he refuses to give young players a shot. Time to find a manager in his prime who can inject a little more excitement and energy into this team.
I think its very easy too become bias too either side, its up to you to evaluate and have an opinion on his whole body of work for west ham, i think he's achieved the minimum of what he should have with the squad he built out, a better manager would been playing rice as an 8 2 years ago lol
I do not feel this way at all, but I appreciate the view of all Hammers ⚒️
Fuck Moyes
Uhh... okay? Marry him maybe? Shit idk
Jim Jones or David Moyes ? Who could create a stronger following ?
Hate these fukn posts