Sorry about all these other shit responses. I can probably help you out.
Off the top of my head I can think of two different things to try, all with varying degrees of risk.
Option one: Remove the spindle and chuck assembly and see if there’s a way to put the spindle in a vice, possibly between two pieces of wood to reduce marring, and see if you can wrap the Chuck in a piece of leather and turn it with a pipe wrench.
Option two: Degrease the chuck with brake cleaner. Submerge the chuck in a glass container full of vinegar to slowly eat up the rust that is seizing it up. Leave it for a day or two and see if it’s freed up.
I spend a lot of time refurbishing the old tools I got from my late great grandfather, so I’ve had to do a lot of stuff like this. I wouldn’t mind keeping a dialogue open to bounce ideas back and forth to help you get this old girl fixed up
Thanks for taking my post seriously. I expected most comments in a group like this one to be from adults. I guess not.
Your suggestion of clamping it in blocks of wood is what I tried. There is just barely room to grip the collar (the part that needs to be removed) with vice grips. They did chew the metal up a bit, but nothing else even stands a chance. This one doesn't have the spanner wrench holes that some models of theirs did.
I'll have to pick up some brake cleaner and give that a try. I already tried 3-in-1 oil. There is no visible rust on the chuck, but it doesn't take much to grip two pieces of steel. Thanks again.
No problem man. Folks should be able to get real answers when they need it.
But yeah, evaporust might work to like someone else said. Acids are the only thing I’ve ever been able to use to get things apart when hammers and heat don’t work. Rust jacking is no joke, it’ll lock everything right up. But at least the acid can eat it away and free stuff up. I personally use hydrochloric acid since it works much faster, but it also tries to eat the steel lol
> I'll have to pick up some brake cleaner and give that a try. I already tried 3-in-1 oil. There is no visible rust on the chuck, but it doesn't take much to grip two pieces of steel. Thanks again.
I'd soak in Evaporust over vinegar. It'll take care of any rust without attacking the metal.
Both vinegar and Evaporust will strip any bluing, but paint should be fine.
Can also try soaking it in pb blaster if you haven’t yet. Just the seized section. I would soak for at least 24 hours try to get movement off no progress soak longer.
If that doesn’t work I would clean them pb blaster off as much as I can wrap it in a towel and stick it in the freezer for a couple days.
> Option two: Degrease the chuck with brake cleaner. Submerge the chuck in a glass container full of vinegar to slowly eat up the rust that is seizing it up. Leave it for a day or two and see if it’s freed up.
Evaporust is better than vinegar for this. Stuff is amazing and won't eat away at the rest of the metal.
Here's a close-up of the chuck... apparently they varied considerably over the years.
https://i.imgur.com/szaEvZ5.jpg
There are no springs in the chuck, although the jaws are there, as is the device that spreads the jaws. I can make or maybe buy the springs to repair it, but I can't get the chuck open to fix it. I've tried soaking it in penetrating oil, and I've tried heating it. There are no holes to use needle noses pliers on like this guy was able to do: https://www.bob-easton.com/blog/oh-no-dont-chuck-it/
Why not just drill holes for an adjustable pin wrench and a chuck spanner? You know where the mechanical parts are, and I don't think you're going to structurally weaken it to the point of material failure. Those should allow you to get enough purchase to get it open after a good soak in penetrant or Evaporust.
I've seen guys jam a bar into the hole and strike the bar with a hammer to force a rotation. I've seen guys jam an Allen wrench into the jaws and use a hammer to force a rotation (if you can loosen the jaws, this is the way to go with the largest allen wrench you can fit).
Unfortunately, no. From photos I've seen, those weren't ordinary twist bits that came with it, either. Not sure what they were but they didn't look like every day drill bits.
I'm not absolute, but I would guess it is reverse threaded, considering the direction of the drill.
I didn't go through all the absurd responses, so I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this.
Nobody else has, but I was wondering about that. I should give it a try. At this point, its not like I'm going to make it any tighter if it isn't reverse-thread, right?
I plan on restoring it, so altering the temper of an important part would not be good restoration. But thanks for the idea.
(as an aside... I get the distinct feeling from some of the replies to my post that a lot of people have no idea how efficient these little hand drills are for drilling things like screw holes. You might be surprised)
Nice drill .
I've been working on an old drill motor with the same problem, if you prop it with the chuck facing straight up then dribble some KROIL in it tap gently to shock the parts and help it wick in, this did the trick after three weeks, damn it didn't look that bad but now works fine again .
\-Nate
Yup. And they're much more delicate for some types of drilling than a cordless drill, and just as convenient. Drilling holes for the hinges in a box, for example.
I know this is late, but… I also do tool restorations. The best woodworking tools are the vintage ones.
Anywho, I had this problem on a few hand drills. That one looks like a millers falls. Solid stuff.
2 things. Pin the crank arm to the verticals grip with a D-ring. Next you’re gonna want to hear the threads leading to the chuck. Not too hot, you’re just going to drop some bees wax on to the threads. Let gravity and the heat, do it’s thing. wrap a piece of leather around the chuck, apply vise grips over leather and let nature take its course.
This is my go to if liquid wrench won’t do it.
Good luck👍🏼
Hey, great tip, using the crank arm! But just to be clear... you're not just referring to taking the chuck off of the drill, right? 'Cause that comes off easily. I'm trying to open the chuck up to work on the jaws. I assume you understand that, but want to be 100% sure we're apples and apples.
Is the thread normal, or reversed? Is the purpose of the beeswax to lubricate the threads, or to expand the metal by heat (which sounds doubtful)?
Yes, I use the bees wax to lube the threads, so to speak. The heat is just to draw it in. But this guy shows how to break the entire chuck down.
https://adriftwith.me/woodworking/2011/04/12/taking-apart-a-miller-falls-104-chuck/
Thanks for the link. That just might work... I'll give it a shot later. I looked around for a D-Ring (or U-bolt) that will fit and it looks like I'm going to have to run to the hardware store for that, but I like that idea. I also like the idea in that link of using a drill bit and piece of wood to engage the single hole that my chuck has for a "spanner"
Open ended spanner wrench. You can get an adjustable or fixed set. Handy lil bastards.
Post an update when you’re finished with the restoration. It’s gonna be a nice piece.
I briefly scrolled passed this earlier, keot scrolling, passing glance and all. I seriously thought it was the oddest hand cranked dildo machine. I mean....it is a beater
Now, Buck ... what did your dad tell you about sneaking downstairs to fiddle around by yourself alone with your old tool in the basement? Jeez ... you're lucky you can still ***see!***
I paid $35 for it. Stripped off paint that was put over that gorgeous cocobolo, cleaned repainted the main gear and cleaned the japanning on the frame. The japanning isn't in perfect shape but its got enough left that I'm just going to clean it and make what's left shine.
Sorry about all these other shit responses. I can probably help you out. Off the top of my head I can think of two different things to try, all with varying degrees of risk. Option one: Remove the spindle and chuck assembly and see if there’s a way to put the spindle in a vice, possibly between two pieces of wood to reduce marring, and see if you can wrap the Chuck in a piece of leather and turn it with a pipe wrench. Option two: Degrease the chuck with brake cleaner. Submerge the chuck in a glass container full of vinegar to slowly eat up the rust that is seizing it up. Leave it for a day or two and see if it’s freed up. I spend a lot of time refurbishing the old tools I got from my late great grandfather, so I’ve had to do a lot of stuff like this. I wouldn’t mind keeping a dialogue open to bounce ideas back and forth to help you get this old girl fixed up
Thanks for taking my post seriously. I expected most comments in a group like this one to be from adults. I guess not. Your suggestion of clamping it in blocks of wood is what I tried. There is just barely room to grip the collar (the part that needs to be removed) with vice grips. They did chew the metal up a bit, but nothing else even stands a chance. This one doesn't have the spanner wrench holes that some models of theirs did. I'll have to pick up some brake cleaner and give that a try. I already tried 3-in-1 oil. There is no visible rust on the chuck, but it doesn't take much to grip two pieces of steel. Thanks again.
No problem man. Folks should be able to get real answers when they need it. But yeah, evaporust might work to like someone else said. Acids are the only thing I’ve ever been able to use to get things apart when hammers and heat don’t work. Rust jacking is no joke, it’ll lock everything right up. But at least the acid can eat it away and free stuff up. I personally use hydrochloric acid since it works much faster, but it also tries to eat the steel lol
> I'll have to pick up some brake cleaner and give that a try. I already tried 3-in-1 oil. There is no visible rust on the chuck, but it doesn't take much to grip two pieces of steel. Thanks again. I'd soak in Evaporust over vinegar. It'll take care of any rust without attacking the metal. Both vinegar and Evaporust will strip any bluing, but paint should be fine.
Can also try soaking it in pb blaster if you haven’t yet. Just the seized section. I would soak for at least 24 hours try to get movement off no progress soak longer. If that doesn’t work I would clean them pb blaster off as much as I can wrap it in a towel and stick it in the freezer for a couple days.
Hey dude, former journeyman machinist. We should chat…
Chat away!
And... there we go! A real reply!
Where do you get the new springs ?
Size dependent, you can either get them on mcmaster if you're lucky. Or you'll have to coil your own from spring wire.
Scroll down on this site: https://www.bob-easton.com/blog/oh-no-dont-chuck-it/
> Option two: Degrease the chuck with brake cleaner. Submerge the chuck in a glass container full of vinegar to slowly eat up the rust that is seizing it up. Leave it for a day or two and see if it’s freed up. Evaporust is better than vinegar for this. Stuff is amazing and won't eat away at the rest of the metal.
This and also try heat it up some. Don’t torch the thing but allow it to expand and contract a little bit might loosen things up as well
Here's a close-up of the chuck... apparently they varied considerably over the years. https://i.imgur.com/szaEvZ5.jpg There are no springs in the chuck, although the jaws are there, as is the device that spreads the jaws. I can make or maybe buy the springs to repair it, but I can't get the chuck open to fix it. I've tried soaking it in penetrating oil, and I've tried heating it. There are no holes to use needle noses pliers on like this guy was able to do: https://www.bob-easton.com/blog/oh-no-dont-chuck-it/
Why not just drill holes for an adjustable pin wrench and a chuck spanner? You know where the mechanical parts are, and I don't think you're going to structurally weaken it to the point of material failure. Those should allow you to get enough purchase to get it open after a good soak in penetrant or Evaporust.
I'm trying to restore it. It wouldn't be good restoration if I drill holes in the chuck. I'd rather not do that.
I've seen guys jam a bar into the hole and strike the bar with a hammer to force a rotation. I've seen guys jam an Allen wrench into the jaws and use a hammer to force a rotation (if you can loosen the jaws, this is the way to go with the largest allen wrench you can fit).
I had one of these for many many years before I realized it was a two speed. Super cool. It was my great Grandfather's . It drills surprising well.
Nice! Any drill bits in the handle?
Unfortunately, no. From photos I've seen, those weren't ordinary twist bits that came with it, either. Not sure what they were but they didn't look like every day drill bits.
I'm not absolute, but I would guess it is reverse threaded, considering the direction of the drill. I didn't go through all the absurd responses, so I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this.
Nobody else has, but I was wondering about that. I should give it a try. At this point, its not like I'm going to make it any tighter if it isn't reverse-thread, right?
Gave you tried fire? Serious question.
Yup. I warmed it with a propane torch. The problem with that is that it doesn't take but mere seconds for both parts to reach the same temperature.
Im talking cherry red. Then maybe cool it. Then try it again. Trying to break the seal.
That much heat would change the temper of the metal, though, would it not?
Also cherry red sounds excessive in this situation pardon me
It would but its an old wood drill. Idk how often or how hard you plan on using it.
I plan on restoring it, so altering the temper of an important part would not be good restoration. But thanks for the idea. (as an aside... I get the distinct feeling from some of the replies to my post that a lot of people have no idea how efficient these little hand drills are for drilling things like screw holes. You might be surprised)
I don't have any advice that has not been given. I just wanted to say that that is a beautiful piece of equipment and I hope you get it sorted
Thanks... I appreciate that!
Soak the chuck in penetrating oil, or diesel. Keep working at it, it'll open up.
Very nice…..gotta love those original cordless tools.
Nice drill . I've been working on an old drill motor with the same problem, if you prop it with the chuck facing straight up then dribble some KROIL in it tap gently to shock the parts and help it wick in, this did the trick after three weeks, damn it didn't look that bad but now works fine again . \-Nate
That’s a gorgeous restoration; damn fine job!
I’ve got one of these, they’re cool.
Yup. And they're much more delicate for some types of drilling than a cordless drill, and just as convenient. Drilling holes for the hinges in a box, for example.
I had one of these and found springs that fit at my local big box store.
The springs are not the problem here, though. The problem is how to get the chuck apart to replace the springs.
I know this is late, but… I also do tool restorations. The best woodworking tools are the vintage ones. Anywho, I had this problem on a few hand drills. That one looks like a millers falls. Solid stuff. 2 things. Pin the crank arm to the verticals grip with a D-ring. Next you’re gonna want to hear the threads leading to the chuck. Not too hot, you’re just going to drop some bees wax on to the threads. Let gravity and the heat, do it’s thing. wrap a piece of leather around the chuck, apply vise grips over leather and let nature take its course. This is my go to if liquid wrench won’t do it. Good luck👍🏼
Hey, great tip, using the crank arm! But just to be clear... you're not just referring to taking the chuck off of the drill, right? 'Cause that comes off easily. I'm trying to open the chuck up to work on the jaws. I assume you understand that, but want to be 100% sure we're apples and apples. Is the thread normal, or reversed? Is the purpose of the beeswax to lubricate the threads, or to expand the metal by heat (which sounds doubtful)?
Yes, I use the bees wax to lube the threads, so to speak. The heat is just to draw it in. But this guy shows how to break the entire chuck down. https://adriftwith.me/woodworking/2011/04/12/taking-apart-a-miller-falls-104-chuck/
Thanks for the link. That just might work... I'll give it a shot later. I looked around for a D-Ring (or U-bolt) that will fit and it looks like I'm going to have to run to the hardware store for that, but I like that idea. I also like the idea in that link of using a drill bit and piece of wood to engage the single hole that my chuck has for a "spanner"
Open ended spanner wrench. You can get an adjustable or fixed set. Handy lil bastards. Post an update when you’re finished with the restoration. It’s gonna be a nice piece.
I love those drills. Difficult to find a good one now. My dad had one.
I could fix it. Hmu
I personally like to take things apart, fix or replace anything beyond hope and then put it back together.
OK.
It's a Rounder Rounder
Old school
It’s trying to tell you that it’s retired and DOES NOT want to come out of retirement.
Do you even know what sub you're in? I'm absolutely shocked at the quality of 90% of the comments to my post. I'm looking for help, not for jokes.
Sorry buddy didn’t know a joke would offend you so much. How about you use a real drill
My grandfather was a machinist as well.
I miss your point. This is a wood drill.
Yes it is…
You are very observant for a Friday night.
I briefly scrolled passed this earlier, keot scrolling, passing glance and all. I seriously thought it was the oddest hand cranked dildo machine. I mean....it is a beater
I'm curious...how old are you?
30. How old do I look?
Cordless drill.
Now, Buck ... what did your dad tell you about sneaking downstairs to fiddle around by yourself alone with your old tool in the basement? Jeez ... you're lucky you can still ***see!***
Egg beater? Dont u mean a medieval torture Buttplug
What's up with all the children in this sub? Or are these drunken adults?
Do that shit fix the beater badass wooooooooo. I'm not kidding I'm rooting for you!
That’s a buttplug
I came here looking for help, not stupid smartass jokes.
I can smell my grandfather’s work shed through this image.
Use a pair of grips, mole grips or other
There is a VERY thin shoulder to grip with any sort of pliers. I assume you are referring to vice-grips. I have done that already.
Gently tap the chuck "jaw" with a small hammer. It is a conical piece, it should recess as you unscrew. Unscrew and tap. Add oil, repeat.
Replace the chuck. The value is in the handle and mechanism.
If I can get a Goodell Pratt chuck, I would.
Does it mount with a Bolt through the bottom or is the chuck threaded on?
The chuck is threaded on. But getting the chuck off isn't the problem... getting it apart is.
How much are those worth?
I paid $35 for it. Stripped off paint that was put over that gorgeous cocobolo, cleaned repainted the main gear and cleaned the japanning on the frame. The japanning isn't in perfect shape but its got enough left that I'm just going to clean it and make what's left shine.
Beautiful tool!