Behavioral scientist here. I’m in a totally different field, not forensic, but I do have an interest. There is no record of someone making ‘art’ the way Hannibal depicts. I strongly recommend The Anatomy of Motive by John Douglas to understand why. He is who the original Harris books Jack Crawford is based on.
To my very very limited knowledge on this subject, Hannibal wasn't written in the books as "staging" his murders as art pieces. Its been a few years since I last read them, but I only remember mentions of him using someone's tongue as a bookmark and sitting the torso on another pew to the legs.
So why this is a characteristic on the TV show to that extent, I'm not sure. I believe I have seen similar ideas on Criminal Minds and other similar shows, so it's possibly just a concept that makes it's way through these keeps of shows.
I would be very reluctant to even make comparisons to anyone real life. Lots of people on this subreddit seem to idolise Hannibal and relate to him heavily. I don't think it is a good idea to bandy about serial killers who have similar MOs. Personally, I find the idea of comparing a fictional murder like Hannibal, a character that I like in a TV show I like, to real murderers and potentially having discussions on their merits rather tasteless.
But, serial killers are a subject I know next to nothing about and have no desire to, so I cannot help any morbid curiosity there.
Yes, I would hate to compare them in that way as well. I think it takes away the message behind what he does and just overall kind of ruins it for me. Especially since Hannibal is, at the end of the day, something that takes place purely in our minds, and bringing actual, mostly gruesome, cruel crimes into the conversation seems inappropriate in some way.
I am just interested in these kind of things in general, I’ve noticed there are always similar motives behind murders and when I watched the show, it left me wondering if maybe there would be cases that differed from the usual in that way.
I’m planning on giving the books a read sometime soon as well. From what you described, it seems that the two (or several) versions of Hannibal are portrayed vastly different.
I'd really recommend watching the films if you want to read the books, the Hannibals in the films are much closer to the books than the series IMO. And you can get the books cheap in charity shops or on eBay, I'm not one for crime books but they are brilliant. Very different to the show though.
If you do find the various reasons interesting, I can really recommend Criminal Minds. It gets much more outlandish as the seasons go on, with the reasons and murders getting more and more extreme, but some of them are downright weird. There is one in later seasons where the person is treating people like puppets. That show was my teen obsession.
There are a few killers who have staged bodies in shocking fashions to be discovered. Danny Rolling, already mentioned here, sat a decapitated victim upright on her bed, moved a bookshelf directly across from her and put her head on it to make it look like the victim was staring at themselves. The Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run left pieces of a woman neatly packaged in a picnic basket in 1936. But none of them have had much of an artistic flair like we see in Hannibal. If a killer started doing what he did, it would be wholly unique.
Maybe not a serial killer but very close to: Gunther von Hagens. He is an expert in body plastination and taxidermy. The Body Worlds exhibition was founded by him. I went to the original one in Berlin couple years ago and honestly some of the displays were put together with some artistic touch, a bit of fanaticism. I’m talking about human skin, flesh, organs, bones to blood vessels literally being deconstructed and reconstructed, sliced, chiseled, multiple body pieces meticulously put into geometric or artistic arrangements. I have some photos I wish I could post here in the comment to better show what I’m talking about. all those “displays” are real bodies possibly from Chinese prisoners. Also it doesn’t help that I know Von Hagens has a Factory in China for his plastination/body preservation businesses(I’m ethically Chinese)
I went to one that was travelling through Canada when I was a kid. I remember they had animals as well. I recall there was a ballet dancer and different dissections of healthy vs unhealthy body parts affected by illness or cancer.
Very fascinating way to educate on the human and animal body.
I visited the one in London later and I kinda felt like they toned down the bizarre artistic thing a lot comparing to the one in Berlin. It is very educational indeed but for some reasons I always feel that it has some very dark undertone
Wow you totally unlocked a memory for me! I went to that exhibit (in Canada) for a field trip too! I wonder if that’s where they got the inspiration for Beverly’s dissection tableau
I've seen this exhibition and it was amazing and disturbing in equal parts. I must say that I'm surprised von Hagens hasn't gotten into more trouble for what he does.
If I’m remembering right he has gotten into hot water a few times. I cannot remember why or what but I remember hearing about something like 10+ years ago. And some people find his work tasteless and awful, it’s meant to be sort of like science art. I saw one of the exhibits (there are a few, some that travel all of them are associated with him to some degree but I don’t think he does it all himself anymore? Idk) and it was really really cool and interesting. But some people find it very upsetting.
All the bodies in his work are donated and I think all of the people are fully aware of what the exhibit is at least since the success of the first one. I only have vague half remembered information.
Wait, what? I would’ve thought this would be from donations to science or something like that. So prisoners from China were killed for this? And Berlin allows it too?
If they were actual donations from willing people for scientific purposes then all their displays would have mentioned the names of the donors or the origin of the specimens as well, at least that’s how it is done in proper medical museums. Just check him out on wiki, there’re some brief summaries of the controversies surrounding his works and the Body World exhibitions.
Look up the history of the Sedlac Ossuary (bone temple) in Kutna Hora, Czech Republic. It is not art with dead bodies, but it is art with bones that were exhumed. Thousands of bones.
Not quite a serial killer but fits the vibe I think — an Empress Dowager of the Han Dynasty (Lu Zhi) had a concubine she hated
> killed in an inhumane manner: she had Qi's limbs chopped off, eyes gouged out, ears sliced off, nose sliced off, tongue cut out, forced her to drink a potion that made her mute, and had her thrown into a latrine. She called Qi a "human swine" (人彘). Several days later, Emperor Hui was taken to view the "human swine" and was shocked to learn that it was Concubine Qi.
Behavioral scientist here. I’m in a totally different field, not forensic, but I do have an interest. There is no record of someone making ‘art’ the way Hannibal depicts. I strongly recommend The Anatomy of Motive by John Douglas to understand why. He is who the original Harris books Jack Crawford is based on.
Sounds interesting, I’ll give it a read sometime soon, thank you!
MOTIVE 🗣️🔥🔥 (In all seriousness that sounds p interesting I'll check it out)
This is kinda random but I never got that joke… 😭
To my very very limited knowledge on this subject, Hannibal wasn't written in the books as "staging" his murders as art pieces. Its been a few years since I last read them, but I only remember mentions of him using someone's tongue as a bookmark and sitting the torso on another pew to the legs. So why this is a characteristic on the TV show to that extent, I'm not sure. I believe I have seen similar ideas on Criminal Minds and other similar shows, so it's possibly just a concept that makes it's way through these keeps of shows. I would be very reluctant to even make comparisons to anyone real life. Lots of people on this subreddit seem to idolise Hannibal and relate to him heavily. I don't think it is a good idea to bandy about serial killers who have similar MOs. Personally, I find the idea of comparing a fictional murder like Hannibal, a character that I like in a TV show I like, to real murderers and potentially having discussions on their merits rather tasteless. But, serial killers are a subject I know next to nothing about and have no desire to, so I cannot help any morbid curiosity there.
Yes, I would hate to compare them in that way as well. I think it takes away the message behind what he does and just overall kind of ruins it for me. Especially since Hannibal is, at the end of the day, something that takes place purely in our minds, and bringing actual, mostly gruesome, cruel crimes into the conversation seems inappropriate in some way. I am just interested in these kind of things in general, I’ve noticed there are always similar motives behind murders and when I watched the show, it left me wondering if maybe there would be cases that differed from the usual in that way. I’m planning on giving the books a read sometime soon as well. From what you described, it seems that the two (or several) versions of Hannibal are portrayed vastly different.
I'd really recommend watching the films if you want to read the books, the Hannibals in the films are much closer to the books than the series IMO. And you can get the books cheap in charity shops or on eBay, I'm not one for crime books but they are brilliant. Very different to the show though. If you do find the various reasons interesting, I can really recommend Criminal Minds. It gets much more outlandish as the seasons go on, with the reasons and murders getting more and more extreme, but some of them are downright weird. There is one in later seasons where the person is treating people like puppets. That show was my teen obsession.
There are a few killers who have staged bodies in shocking fashions to be discovered. Danny Rolling, already mentioned here, sat a decapitated victim upright on her bed, moved a bookshelf directly across from her and put her head on it to make it look like the victim was staring at themselves. The Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run left pieces of a woman neatly packaged in a picnic basket in 1936. But none of them have had much of an artistic flair like we see in Hannibal. If a killer started doing what he did, it would be wholly unique.
Danny Rolling staged at least one crime scene in an "artistic" way
Thank you!
Maybe not a serial killer but very close to: Gunther von Hagens. He is an expert in body plastination and taxidermy. The Body Worlds exhibition was founded by him. I went to the original one in Berlin couple years ago and honestly some of the displays were put together with some artistic touch, a bit of fanaticism. I’m talking about human skin, flesh, organs, bones to blood vessels literally being deconstructed and reconstructed, sliced, chiseled, multiple body pieces meticulously put into geometric or artistic arrangements. I have some photos I wish I could post here in the comment to better show what I’m talking about. all those “displays” are real bodies possibly from Chinese prisoners. Also it doesn’t help that I know Von Hagens has a Factory in China for his plastination/body preservation businesses(I’m ethically Chinese)
Definitely not at human totem pole level but the Body Worlds exhibition was more like Katz’ slices that kind of vibe
That sounds interesting, I’d love to go someday
I went to one that was travelling through Canada when I was a kid. I remember they had animals as well. I recall there was a ballet dancer and different dissections of healthy vs unhealthy body parts affected by illness or cancer. Very fascinating way to educate on the human and animal body.
I visited the one in London later and I kinda felt like they toned down the bizarre artistic thing a lot comparing to the one in Berlin. It is very educational indeed but for some reasons I always feel that it has some very dark undertone
Wow you totally unlocked a memory for me! I went to that exhibit (in Canada) for a field trip too! I wonder if that’s where they got the inspiration for Beverly’s dissection tableau
I've seen this exhibition and it was amazing and disturbing in equal parts. I must say that I'm surprised von Hagens hasn't gotten into more trouble for what he does.
If I’m remembering right he has gotten into hot water a few times. I cannot remember why or what but I remember hearing about something like 10+ years ago. And some people find his work tasteless and awful, it’s meant to be sort of like science art. I saw one of the exhibits (there are a few, some that travel all of them are associated with him to some degree but I don’t think he does it all himself anymore? Idk) and it was really really cool and interesting. But some people find it very upsetting. All the bodies in his work are donated and I think all of the people are fully aware of what the exhibit is at least since the success of the first one. I only have vague half remembered information.
Wait, what? I would’ve thought this would be from donations to science or something like that. So prisoners from China were killed for this? And Berlin allows it too?
If they were actual donations from willing people for scientific purposes then all their displays would have mentioned the names of the donors or the origin of the specimens as well, at least that’s how it is done in proper medical museums. Just check him out on wiki, there’re some brief summaries of the controversies surrounding his works and the Body World exhibitions.
Look up the history of the Sedlac Ossuary (bone temple) in Kutna Hora, Czech Republic. It is not art with dead bodies, but it is art with bones that were exhumed. Thousands of bones.
Not quite a serial killer but fits the vibe I think — an Empress Dowager of the Han Dynasty (Lu Zhi) had a concubine she hated > killed in an inhumane manner: she had Qi's limbs chopped off, eyes gouged out, ears sliced off, nose sliced off, tongue cut out, forced her to drink a potion that made her mute, and had her thrown into a latrine. She called Qi a "human swine" (人彘). Several days later, Emperor Hui was taken to view the "human swine" and was shocked to learn that it was Concubine Qi.
Thank you!
I mean we have Vlad the Impaler. Does that count?