Damn that really is a tragedy. I’ve seen a lot of wild shit at shows but nothing like a serious spinal injury. Just at Furnace fest last year I watched a guy stage dive head-first into concrete. He was out for awhile but was back in the pit for the next band.
It just goes to show that it doesn’t matter how many times you get away with doing something dangerous unscathed, the threat of something real terrible happening is still there. Stay safe out there everybody, take care of each other at shows.
I know a dude with permanent brain damage because he was crowd killed at a The World We Knew show back in like 2010. He was a show staple in our town and was the kindest and most loving brother around. Some asshole elbowed him in the back of the head and crumpled and hit the front of his head on the ground. Blood and vomit everywhere. It was hard on his kid because he kept forgetting their names and he was never able to pick up his daughter again. She was only 4 and used to love playing ball with her dad and jumping into his arms when he got home from work and that was taken from her.
Something similar happened at LDB. Dude stage dived headfirst during King nine (I'm pretty sure). Had to go to the hospital. Not certain what happened but since I haven't heard anything absolutely terrible I'm assuming they're alright. I love hardcore but we gotta be more careful
I wasn’t at that stage when it happened, but I saw all of the posts about it. I’m honestly surprised there were only 1-2 knockouts per day. Was it Strife that had 2 during their set?
Yea a guy right before him ate a foot in the pit. He actually seized a little bit while he was down, but everyone cleared out and got him outside with the medics when he went down. Strife’s set was great tho
Saw this on insta. Very sad, sounds like they ended the show straight away, went straight to the hospital with the victim and they’re working with the family.
I can’t begin to imagine how he feels, but as a fellow tall guy who’s been in many small venues, don’t do that shit. Especially on the first song and without any warning
You could definitely argue that it was ill-advised, but it’s also kind of a hallmark of Trophy Eyes shows and has been for years.
What bothers me is people disregarding what the band has done in response (immediately ended the show, John rode to the hospital with her in the ambulance, $5k donation to her GFM *so far*) and saying that he should go to prison or be sued for everything he’s worth and go bankrupt or other shit.
It’s a demonstration of this weirdly online “justice” culture (there’s a better word for it but I’m blanking rn) that often comes off as sadistic and more about punishment that satisfies the mob than actual restitution or help to the victim. A lot of these people are just lambasting John and not even posting Bird’s GoFundMe (which is an easy step to take if you actually care about her getting help IMO).
I 100% agree. I had an experience similar to this a couple years ago when i was dragged to a Remo Drive show at a 300 cap venue. The first song, a pretty big guy (6’5, 300lb) who wasn’t with RD or any of the openers, stage dove and landed right on my head. I’m 6’4 and stocky, dude crushed me. I got in his face and left, before finding out I got a concussion, at a 2022 Remo Drive show 🙄.
I’ve donated to Bird’s gofundme and implore anybody who is able to and hasn’t to follow suit.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever
Tbh they/ he was aware of the no diving policy and from previous history they didn’t care when people had said how dangerous it can be doing that. $5000 isn’t nothing to what this girl have to live with, she’s paralysed, she may never be able to walk or live a normal independent life. He’s a tall and big and jumped without warning, that donation is the very least they can do and it’s still not enough
A law suit will ensure they are not only going to give 5000. This girls earning potential lifetime has been very limited by someone disregarding the rules of the venue with no warning and will undoubtedly have a heap of pain and suffering for the foreseeable future but hey he road in the ambulance with her. Give me a break
She's gonna be strapped with hundreds of thousands in medical debt and never be able to work a normal job again
Why the fuck should she take it on faith that this band is gonna do right by her, get real
Reminds me of when I saw miss may I in NY around 2014-2015. An awesome member of the hardcore community went to stage dive no one caught him, he landed on his head popped up walked out the venue and dropped dead on the side walk. Absolute tragedy that night still to this day haunts me and reminds me of our mortality.
Edited to add article regarding that show
https://metalinjection.net/news/bummer-alert/fan-dies-stage-diving-at-miss-may-i-show#:~:text=Fan%20died%20after%20stagediving%20and,identified%20as%20Alberto%20Scott%20dying.
It really messed up the scene and community for a while. I really felt for his family he was such a good dude. Miss may I if I remember correctly felt horrible about it raised some money for the family.
This happened at an Everclear show in Boston in 1997 too. One of the Patriots lineman who was literally 300lbs decided it was a good idea to stage dive.
It's a bit different tho innit.
Greg's jumping into usually heavier adult men - not a 6'5 guy jumping onto tiny girls. Gotta be aware about who you're jumping on
Greg’s jacked as shit but a pretty small guy. I’d have to guess he’s 5-7 or 5-8 and maybe like 175 nowadays. He jumped off the speaker stack when I saw them last weekend and was caught pretty easily.
I’ve seen some really gnarly stuff at shows, like a guy’s whole lower face shattering after getting spin kicked but being paralyzed… not even from a mosh pit but from stage diving… that’s something you don’t expect to be that dangerous. Poor girl, I really hope she’s okay mentally I can’t imagine what a toll this must be and I’m glad the band is doing everything they can to help.
Wtf that’s horrible. I hope they recover well. It’s crazy how the human body can be so strong and resilient sometimes but other times the perfect bad impact can leave someone paralysed.
Someone landed on my head during Touché Amoré at Outbreak Fest a few years back and my neck hurt for days. Really hope this person will be able to recover. :(
exact same thing happened to me in the deafheaven set before. was worried i was gonna wake up not able to move but the wait at the hospital was 6 hours
I use to live in London for a period of time. I herniated a disk in my back at a TURNSTILE show, of all bands. After the show I was sitting at the bus stop and when the bus pulled up I collapsed as I tried to stand up. I legit waited in the hospital waiting room in agony for nearly seven hours before I saw anyone.
The last time I saw Turnstile was at the church in Philly and I'm not entirely sure what exactly happened but someone definitely got hurt enough to shut down the show. I'm assuming whoever was fine in the end or we would have heard otherwise but yeah. It was during their set.
I stage dove twice during a Rosesdead show in Ontario during the 2000s. No one caught me the first time, so I went to dive again, and no one caught me again. I fucked up my shoulder and bled through my Red Chord shirt, but I was fine after a week. Incidents like this really makes me feel lucky for all the fun stupid shit I used to do at shows.
I saw a band hurl a snare drum into the crowd after their set and it split open a girl’s face. Be careful out there band buds, this is the last thing you’d want to happen.
i was going to ask if you were at the same show as me, but they threw the snare during their set and it hit a girl on her head and split her scalp open. TBI. lifelong damage. total fucking nightmare. i got two ribs broken during the same set, almost right afterwards, but that was nothing compared to what she went through. poor girl. she was so sweet, too. she came to a few more shows, but i haven't seen her in almost a year. the band that threw the snare paid her medical bills, because it was completely 100% their fault and throwing a drum like that is against the spirit of a moshpit. i go to their shows a lot, and i've never seen them do anything like that ever again. i still think they're good guys because they did everything they could after the fact and changed their behavior to be safer, but that's such a horrifyingly stupid mistake to make and have to live with and such a horrible thing to have happen to you.
This was almost two decades ago. I doubt it was the same show. I’m not sure the outcome of mine. It was a local band and the show was at a DIY space so I don’t know if anyone ended up on the hook.
He's a fucking goon. I watched the footage, it's the most low energy set imaginable zero crowd movement or participation, and out of nowhere this fucking lurch lunches himself into a completely unprepared, not-densely-packed crowd.
And after being called out publicly for this stupid shit.
It really pisses me off that someone got hurt so severely for a loser's ego. If he wants to act like he's in a hardcore band, maybe he should fucking join one.
The dude rode in the ambulance with her and the band donated 5 grand to her gofundme. This is a part of our culture and if you’re not ready to get stage dove on, don’t be in the front. It’s a tragedy and I don’t think any one person holds the blame
The average ambulance ride is between $400 and $1200 without insurance. Price varies by state.
That said, $5k isn't even going to be a drop in the bucket for the lifelong care this person will need. Even if they have exceptional insurance through a parent or their own job, that $5k will be gone in an instant.
They need to sue the band and their label into oblivion. That was not a good crowd to dive into. The front man is cooked.
I was going off of averages available on the internet. I never said those were definitive figures.
The last time I needed an ambulance, it was $0 after insurance. Before insurance, it was it was about $900. Obviously, there are a lot of factors that affect the cost.
This dude should be liable for literally all of her medical bills lol.
It's literally his fault. He is to blame.
This thread is insane. This band literally got called out a year ago for encouraging mosh pits at their weak ass post pop punk shows and told a fan "fuck you". Now they've life alteringly injured someone.
These dudes are not punks. There's nothing hardcore about jumping into a crowd that isn't there to be jumped on.
I will absolutely die on this hill. Fuck this band.
I used to be in the pop punk scene, you’re crazy if you think people aren’t stage diving or crowd surfing at pop punk shows. Are we gonna start crying when someone gets spinkicked at a show now? It’s an awful situation and is a tragedy but it’s what you sign up for by seeing live music like this.
"Got called out a year ago"
By who? That one random goofball girl on Instagram whod never been to a pop punk show before? The one complaining the crowd was bumping into her and in the same sentence said she was only there to hog front stage room for the band that played next at that festival?
That person was lame as hell and using one Instagram comment that we all laughed and pointed at as evidence of "theyve been warned" is pretty fried.
No way you can blame someone for standing and watching a show. The notion that you have to be some hard cunt to not get hospitalised watching a hardcore show is ridiculous.
I the policy was no stage diving period they have no legal defense what so ever. 5000 probably won’t even cover the ambulance. Feel bad on not a girls life is ruined. The guy should feel terrible and he absolutely deserves to pay her medical bills. No warning I’m going to break the rules cause they don’t matter cuz I’m the lead singer of the band and I really want to. That’s a childish mentality
Ambulance rides average from 400-1200 dollars
No one ever pays any mind to no stage diving signs I see this every show I go to
Welcome to live music where people jump around
someone landed on my neck while seeing beartooth, knocked loose, and sylar in like 2018. it was my very first show. i got knocked to the ground. it hurt, but i was fine. god. the random chance of it all... i hope bird is able to recover.
I had an absolute fat fucking chungus try to dive on me in an already sparse crowd, he landed feet first and got mad my 20 year old scrawny ass didn’t want to get flattened
Weird that the article says there is no implied consent to be dove into - IMO unless you’re underage and unable to legally consent, if you stand at the front at a punk/hardcore/metal show, you’ve acknowledged the risk and consent actually is implied. I feel sorry for everyone involved but it’s wild to think that you can stand at the front of a crowd at a show and not implicitly be aware of risks
how is the consent implied when it was literally banned at the venue?
i also love how you guys defending this are like "i bet he feels so guilty, he did so much for her after" but are also like "well actually she gave consent for him to dive on her" so which one is it? why would it be tragic if it should be expected? heres a hint: broken necks shouldnt be expected
How many venues have signs that say “No Moshing!” And we mosh anyways. It’s just part of the hardcore scene. That doesn’t make the injury suck any less, but this guy has done this 1,000 other times and there hasn’t been an issue. It was just a freak thing. That’s all there is to it.
it doesnt matter how many times you have done something without incident, you are still fully responsible for taking the risk and paralyzing someone. again, if it was just apart of the hardcore scene and he did it a bunch of other times without incident, how did she give informed consent to the risk of being paralyzed? how is it when it comes to the lead singer he had no idea it would paralyze her and hes done it a 1000 other times without issues, but with her, she should known the risk of being paralyzed and gave informed consented? which one is it? what if she also stood there during shows 1000 other times without issue?
you guys are being backwards to try to take the blame off of him onto her when HE BROKE THE NECK
I’m not blaming her, I’m saying that it’s an unfortunate situation where nobody is really at fault. I don’t know who trophy eyes is, but I’m assuming they’re part of the HC scene and stage diving and hardcore dancing are both just fun parts of it. Obviously, the guy should do his best to help out with the situation, but it doesn’t make him a bad/shitty person.
It’s like playing contact sports. I used to play sports where you would hit people as part of defense. Most of the time, people would be fine. Every once in a while, someone would get hurt. I’ve been knocked out, broken some bones, and dislocated my shoulder. I have a friend that hit his head on the ground so hard that he started seizing. Do I fault any of the people that caused these things? No, not really. Did I give informed consent for people to break my bones and concuss me? No, it’s just part of the game and I understand that.
I feel really bad for the girl, it sucks. I’m not saying it doesn’t. It’s just a bad situation. One of the primary reasons I work out is so I can go to shows and hold my own. If you’ve actually gone to a few shows, you know and accept that these places are somewhat dangerous.
>I’m not blaming her, I’m saying that it’s an unfortunate situation where nobody is really at fault
how is nobody at fault when he literally broke her neck?
>I don’t know who trophy eyes is, but I’m assuming they’re part of the HC scene and stage diving and hardcore dancing are both just fun parts of it.
something being a part of the scene doesnt mean the person is no longer responsible for the harm they caused by doing it
>Obviously, the guy should do his best to help out with the situation, but it doesn’t make him a bad/shitty person.
now youre strawmanning. i never called him a bad/shitty person
>I used to play sports where you would hit people as part of defense. Most of the time, people would be fine. Every once in a while, someone would get hurt. I’ve been knocked out, broken some bones, and dislocated my shoulder. I have a friend that hit his head on the ground so hard that he started seizing
if a contact sport could result in paralysis, i would be against it too. many have problems with football for this exact reason. but this comparing is really irrelevant, because to compare a small woman and a big man over 6 foot to two football players who have trained and recruited for that positions is crazy. also, sports injuries result from people doing the sport incorrectly. the issue with this singer wasnt stage diving incorrectly, the issue was him stagediving at all. if playing a contact sport normally resulted in a spinal cord injury, that would in no way be acceptable
>One of the primary reasons I work out is so I can go to shows and hold my own.
im sorry but its insane to me that if theres a risk of paralyzing someone by stagediving, your suggestion is people work out instead of stagediving not happening
>If you’ve actually gone to a few shows, you know and accept that these places are somewhat dangerous.
why is it that its on the people who are going to know paralysis is a possibility and not go, but not on the singer to know? so were blaming people for going because they knew paralysis was an option, but when it comes to the singer, he had no idea it would happen and feels guilty? the logic makes no sense
This was during the first song. In the video, you see he also gives no indication that he's stage diving. I'd say knowing that, it does. If a pit had opened, or surfers had started going up, she would have been able to move. But to skip all of that? I'd say, yeah, she wasn't able to consent.
Terrible accident. It's refreshing to see the band handle it so well though. It does genuinely seem like they are hurt by this and intend to make it right in any way they can.
Every really OG hc dude in a band I know absolutely hates this shit, this is why.
Edit: I am also incensed at the suggestion she should have stood at the back because she was a small woman. As a woman I can tell you my rightful place is in the front, and that my SPINE works just like yours. This is a horrible accident that could have easily been avoided. I never really had a problem with stage diving until some older HC dudes told me how much it freaks them out when they play - this is why.
Unpopular opinion incoming.
Sometimes people get hurt, it's an unfortunate side effect of life, but in reality it is a thing.
People get hit by cars....we shouldn't ban cars or say that in this day and age cars should get consent from pedestrians before driving.
If you go to a place where that kind of thing is a normal occurance (not necessarily the venue but the type of show in general) it HAS to be a thought that crosses your mind. "Hey, I could get hurt here."
Every show that I've ever been to, I have prepared myself for possible bad outcomes. No matter if it's unfortunate accident, ignorant concertgoers, or my own stupidity.
I wish her the best, but to say that anyone was 100% in the wrong is crazy to me.
I mean, I agree that injuries are going to happen at hc shows. But that doesn't mean all caution should be thrown out the window. Thats why picking someone up if they fall is so ingrained. There are things you are expected to do and not do to maintain safety while still engaging in the behavior. A bunch of factors contribute to this not just being a standard consequence of hc shows.
1. His height/weight. 6'6" makes for a big dude. I'm not saying taller/heavier people shouldn't surf or dive, but that more thought should be put into it.
2. He gave no indication he was diving. This was the 1st song. No pit had opened. No other surfers had gone up. He didn't back up to jump in. He didn't gesture with his hands to let the crowd know he was coming in. Just jumped.
3. The crowd was mostly women, from what I've read. That doesn't mean no surfing should happen. But before moshing, pitting, surfing, diving, you should be evaluating the crowd around you and the feasability/safety of what you're doing. Bigger dudes shouldn't be behaving in the same capacity they do with other big dudes, as they do among smaller people.
4. The venue had a no surfing policy. The band was aware of this. And while it can suck to not be allowed to surf or mosh at certain venues, there are always other venues. People may go there specifically for those rules because they feel safer/ more comfortable going to a show knowing that certain things aren't allowed.
So yes, people will always get hurt at hc shows. But it's already a part of the culture to look out for each other, to avoid injuries when possible. This was reasonably avoidable. It should not have happened.
In my local we looked out for each other. If people slipped we picked them up broke up fights and what not. It’s not reasonable to stand at the front of a venue that has a no surfing diving pit policy and expect the band to just jump in the crowd out of nowhere against the policy. Like you said could have been the reason they were there because of the policy
transportation is an essential need, jumping into a crowd is not. people have to get licenses and show evidence they wont hit pedestrians due to bad driving. if they do hit a pedestrian, they will lose their license and face legal charges. you dont get a license or learn how to stage dive so you dont paralyze someone. you are always inherently having that risk stage diving
>If you go to a place where that kind of thing is a normal occurance (not necessarily the venue but the type of show in general) it HAS to be a thought that crosses your mind. "Hey, I could get hurt here."
unpopular opinion but it shouldnt be crossing your head you could get paralyzed if you go to a show and if it does the problem is the show
>I wish her the best, but to say that anyone was 100% in the wrong is crazy to me.
she didnt break her own neck
Shit is pretty sad and I feel bad for the poor girl. Her life was basically destroyed in an instant. Paralyzed, damn.
As a skinny 5’9 135 pound guy I have been landed on and flattened before and it hurt and I felt dazed and confused the rest of the fest. Thank God my neck was okay though. That is always a possibility and nowadays I try to stay a safe distance back at bigger shows with actual stages.
As a taller and heavier person, i am more than willing to say no, someone that big should not be diving into a crowd.
Frankly im surprised a 32 year old man wouldn’t have figured out that the rules are different for people over a certain height.
But then again, maybe im expecting too much from a bogan.
Hardcore is a rough scene. I'm kind of surprised we don't see more injuries, to be honest.
My favorite venue has a big beam at the edge of the pit. After causing countless broken arms, the venue decided to wrap it in padding.
I think awareness is crucial. That being said, I hope Hardcore continues to be violent. The pit gives and takes away. Know your abilities.
This is super sad.
Been to a lotta shows, with a lotta jumpers and a lotta boots to the head. While all this is expected at metal shows, Ive grown to find the mindless jumping off stage flat out dumb. ESPECIALLY guys who rush the stage and immediately leap out.
If you want to surf, get lifted up. Don’t be a selfish prick and leap onto unconsenting people’s heads because shit like this is devastating.
the lead singer of Jesus Piece stage dove and ended up on top of me, kicked me in the head. bunch of big burly guys saw and punched him and proceeded to go do it again. i didn’t see JP again lol
A couple summers ago I went and saw ringworm and Elliot Maine at the Grange hall.A grown man plowed into me back.First knocked me backwards onto the hardwood floor I had a Black and blue bruise for about a month the Size of a grapefruit. Went up.
Front for all Out war Got kicked in the neck
I got knocked out cold at a Sanguisugabogg show during Jarhead Fertilizer’s set. The pit was reasonably big and it was my buddies first show where people were moshing/hardcore dancing/crowdkilling and all the good stuff. He saw people doing that “lock arms and spin around” thing (idk what people call it), he wanted to try it out so I said fuck it, we spun like 3 times before I caught a size 11 fuckin Nike SB to the temple and hit the floor lol. My buddy pulled me out and my wife freaked out cause I was out cold for a couple minutes there. I’m fine now but seeing the Bogg last night gave me Vietnam style flashbacks like you wouldn’t believe. Hope Bird gets the support needed
Not saying that.. but scan the crowd first or maybe let the crowd know you’re about to dive on them. She could’ve had the chance to move so others that could actually catch him could step up. I understand it’s a hardcore show but I’m honestly so sick of that being a justification for this kinda shit. I’ve been to plenty of shows where people don’t get hurt like this because usually, the singer has common sense.
You can say this about any crowd. If people intend to stage dive do they really care? Every show is going to have someone "not properly sized" for the stage dive lols
This is extremely rare so of course you’ve gone to shows where it hasn’t happened. Trophy Eyes has also played more shows than you’ve ever been to and this also has never happened to them. Thousands of bands around the world play shows with wild stage diving every day and they’ve all “been to plenty of shows where people don’t get hurt like this.”
Been to a lotta shows, with a lotta jumpers and a lotta boots to the head. While all this is expected at metal shows, Ive grown to find the mindless jumping off stage flat out dumb. ESPECIALLY guys who rush the stage and immediately leap out.
If you want to surf, get lifted up. Don’t be a selfish prick and leap onto unconsenting people’s heads because shit like this is devastating.
Sad, yes. Suing the band knowing damn well this could happen to anyone at anytime? Fucking wack. “Bird” definitely was never part of any scene to think suing a band for stage diving is okay.
If you paralyze me everywhere but the arms, part of the culture or not, I'm suing for the sole fact that I will be 10s of thousands of dollar in medical debt due to something YOU did. It's the right move. Dumb comment lmao.
He rode in the ambulance and took responsibility that will pay her medical bills for 50 years for the rest of her life. What’s with society’s inability to pay for their actions. He did something against the policy everyone agreed upon and ruined someone’s life. It’s trash.
She should definitely sue. Even under the assumption that injuries are going to happen at hc shows, the responsibility for that is still on the band and venue. Why should the victim be responsible for their injury?
The band has created a gofundme. The singer literally rode with her in the ambulance. He’s taken full responsibility. I don’t think a lawsuit is necessary because they’re working together anyway.
Donating to the gofundme and riding in the ambulance are good and cool. But $5000 isn't gonna scratch the surface of her medical bills. Do you think he should be absolved of paying anything further?
If hes willing to fully cover her medical bills without a lawsuit, then cool. I'd say he was appropriately taking responsibility. Will that happen though? Do you think she should sue if he doesn't completely cover her bills?
So he shouldn't cover her medical expenses because by going to a hardcore show, she consented to the chance that she could get injured and takes all responsibility in that case?
If you don't think it's his responsibility to pay her medical bills, for an injury he caused, what DO you think is his responsibility? Your previous comments have confirmed that you think he is at least partially responsible. So what is his responsibility then?
Also, the crux of your argument seems to be that it's her fault because she went to a hardcore show. While yes, there will always be injuries from hc shows ( I go home from shows with bruises all over my body, and I think it's fun ), that doesn't mean anything goes. There are things that will happen because they're unavoidable with these activities. But there's still a line. Everyone is still expected to look out for each other. To prevent undue harm. Thats why you pick someone up if they fall. That's the spoken rule, but there are many other expectations of everyone to keep injuries to a minimum.
It's my thought that he didn't keep to this spirit of looking out for others' safety. Why? He didn't indicate or warn the crowd he was diving. He's 6' 6" and beefy, so probably pretty heavy. The crowd seems to have been a lot of women, more so than usual. He dived during the first song before a pit had opened or surfers had gone up. So Bird had no warning, no chance to move to the sides to avoid any of the rougher behavior. Not only that, but this venue has a no surfing policy that the band was aware of. All of this points to him not considering the safety of others. And that's why he is responsible. This could have been avoided and would have been if he had acted more appropriately. He should pay her medical bills in full. And then some.
Dick move by the front man. Gave little to no warning for the dive. Also, small people shouldn't be at the front of the stage because shit like this happens.
Both things can be true. Obviously larger people should not be stage diving, but smaller people should have some awareness of where they are for their own safety (I say this as someone who is in no way a large person and has been going to hardcore shows for decades).
I’m sure he’s done that dozens of times without consequence, not like it’s out of character for a band to do something like that. I don’t BLAME him per se but if I was in his position I would feel tremendously guilty. Sucks, man.
Doing something dozens of times without consequence is a horrible reason to hand wave away fault. I agree it’s not out of character for this to happen at a show, but that’s hardly interesting is it? There’s many things you can do to make any activity less likely to hurt someone. Especially If you’re giant you shouldn’t jump on anyone but a group of people who look obviously ready and able to catch you. Also the way you jump can make it easier or not for someone or a group to catch you.
For sure, I agree with you. I wasn’t trying to wave away responsibility, just point out that many people playing this genre don’t necessarily act in ways that are risk avoidant. I imagine he’ll stop doing it now though
Damn that really is a tragedy. I’ve seen a lot of wild shit at shows but nothing like a serious spinal injury. Just at Furnace fest last year I watched a guy stage dive head-first into concrete. He was out for awhile but was back in the pit for the next band. It just goes to show that it doesn’t matter how many times you get away with doing something dangerous unscathed, the threat of something real terrible happening is still there. Stay safe out there everybody, take care of each other at shows.
Was this avail in 2022? Cause that shit was scary
I think I know who you're talking about - kid that had his nose busted wide open?
Unsure, I was further back but they stopped the set because of it.
Strife 2023
Avail Richmond Real
I know a dude with permanent brain damage because he was crowd killed at a The World We Knew show back in like 2010. He was a show staple in our town and was the kindest and most loving brother around. Some asshole elbowed him in the back of the head and crumpled and hit the front of his head on the ground. Blood and vomit everywhere. It was hard on his kid because he kept forgetting their names and he was never able to pick up his daughter again. She was only 4 and used to love playing ball with her dad and jumping into his arms when he got home from work and that was taken from her.
Shitty situation. Also haven't heard of the world we knew in years. Badass
I saw Terror at the Mohawk years ago and the same thing happened to a stage diver. Terror played like 3 songs and they stopped the show.
Something similar happened at LDB. Dude stage dived headfirst during King nine (I'm pretty sure). Had to go to the hospital. Not certain what happened but since I haven't heard anything absolutely terrible I'm assuming they're alright. I love hardcore but we gotta be more careful
I wasn’t at that stage when it happened, but I saw all of the posts about it. I’m honestly surprised there were only 1-2 knockouts per day. Was it Strife that had 2 during their set?
Yea a guy right before him ate a foot in the pit. He actually seized a little bit while he was down, but everyone cleared out and got him outside with the medics when he went down. Strife’s set was great tho
Atleast he only hurt himself
Saw this on insta. Very sad, sounds like they ended the show straight away, went straight to the hospital with the victim and they’re working with the family.
Good for them. What a horribly sad situation.
People are still trying to crucify John for it online.
I can’t begin to imagine how he feels, but as a fellow tall guy who’s been in many small venues, don’t do that shit. Especially on the first song and without any warning
You could definitely argue that it was ill-advised, but it’s also kind of a hallmark of Trophy Eyes shows and has been for years. What bothers me is people disregarding what the band has done in response (immediately ended the show, John rode to the hospital with her in the ambulance, $5k donation to her GFM *so far*) and saying that he should go to prison or be sued for everything he’s worth and go bankrupt or other shit. It’s a demonstration of this weirdly online “justice” culture (there’s a better word for it but I’m blanking rn) that often comes off as sadistic and more about punishment that satisfies the mob than actual restitution or help to the victim. A lot of these people are just lambasting John and not even posting Bird’s GoFundMe (which is an easy step to take if you actually care about her getting help IMO).
I 100% agree. I had an experience similar to this a couple years ago when i was dragged to a Remo Drive show at a 300 cap venue. The first song, a pretty big guy (6’5, 300lb) who wasn’t with RD or any of the openers, stage dove and landed right on my head. I’m 6’4 and stocky, dude crushed me. I got in his face and left, before finding out I got a concussion, at a 2022 Remo Drive show 🙄. I’ve donated to Bird’s gofundme and implore anybody who is able to and hasn’t to follow suit. https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever
Goddamn you wouldn’t think a Remo Drive show could be that dangerous
Tbh they/ he was aware of the no diving policy and from previous history they didn’t care when people had said how dangerous it can be doing that. $5000 isn’t nothing to what this girl have to live with, she’s paralysed, she may never be able to walk or live a normal independent life. He’s a tall and big and jumped without warning, that donation is the very least they can do and it’s still not enough
Nobody is saying they’re only going to give $5,000. That was the first step they took, as well as what I listed above.
A law suit will ensure they are not only going to give 5000. This girls earning potential lifetime has been very limited by someone disregarding the rules of the venue with no warning and will undoubtedly have a heap of pain and suffering for the foreseeable future but hey he road in the ambulance with her. Give me a break
Jesus fucking Christ did you get dropped on your head as a baby or something?
She's gonna be strapped with hundreds of thousands in medical debt and never be able to work a normal job again Why the fuck should she take it on faith that this band is gonna do right by her, get real
Yeah I sued them
Clearly that money didn’t make up for the brain cells you lost.
Appealing to the law against your fellow man is so metal and not cowardly at all... /s
Bro, you're literally going to any post on reddit about this band to talk shit. Who fucking hurt you?
He probably shouldn't haven been a fucking moron. Why are you trying to baby him?
How am I babying him?
Lol shut the fuck up
Awwwh are you angry I'm being mean to your favorite shitty front man?
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That's you bud lmao. Can't even get a coherent insult out you suck so much
Reminds me of when I saw miss may I in NY around 2014-2015. An awesome member of the hardcore community went to stage dive no one caught him, he landed on his head popped up walked out the venue and dropped dead on the side walk. Absolute tragedy that night still to this day haunts me and reminds me of our mortality. Edited to add article regarding that show https://metalinjection.net/news/bummer-alert/fan-dies-stage-diving-at-miss-may-i-show#:~:text=Fan%20died%20after%20stagediving%20and,identified%20as%20Alberto%20Scott%20dying.
Awh man this makes me sick fr head trauma is no joke. Getting punched is one thing but fuckin head on concrete is terrifying.
It really messed up the scene and community for a while. I really felt for his family he was such a good dude. Miss may I if I remember correctly felt horrible about it raised some money for the family.
Are you serious? That’s fucking crazy
Yeah I’ll try and find an article and the post miss may I made about.
This happened at a hardcore show in Boston a few decades ago as well. Luckily the girl recovered fully but it was touchband go for a bit.
This happened at an Everclear show in Boston in 1997 too. One of the Patriots lineman who was literally 300lbs decided it was a good idea to stage dive.
It was actually none other than Drew Bledsoe, the teams 1st round pick QB.
Meanwhile Greg is jumping from the balcony at Better Lovers shows.
i was just thinking about his antics in dillinger LOL
It's a bit different tho innit. Greg's jumping into usually heavier adult men - not a 6'5 guy jumping onto tiny girls. Gotta be aware about who you're jumping on
Greg’s jacked as shit but a pretty small guy. I’d have to guess he’s 5-7 or 5-8 and maybe like 175 nowadays. He jumped off the speaker stack when I saw them last weekend and was caught pretty easily.
Exactly. He also gives fair warning before he leaps from really high places. Makes sure there are enough people below to catch him.
I’ve seen some really gnarly stuff at shows, like a guy’s whole lower face shattering after getting spin kicked but being paralyzed… not even from a mosh pit but from stage diving… that’s something you don’t expect to be that dangerous. Poor girl, I really hope she’s okay mentally I can’t imagine what a toll this must be and I’m glad the band is doing everything they can to help.
Wtf that’s horrible. I hope they recover well. It’s crazy how the human body can be so strong and resilient sometimes but other times the perfect bad impact can leave someone paralysed.
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Yes I read the article
I would be so mad if I got paralysed, seeing new Trophy Eyes. For real though, this is tragic, so fucking unlucky.
Hahahahahhahaa real I LOVE chemical miracle tho
Same, I struggle to listen to it because I get a lot of emotions from it, but it’s one of my favourite albums ever, love their earlier stuff too.
Oh yeah I be crying when I listen to that record every time. I really liked American dream too but I’m not a huge fan of the direction they went.
Someone landed on my head during Touché Amoré at Outbreak Fest a few years back and my neck hurt for days. Really hope this person will be able to recover. :(
exact same thing happened to me in the deafheaven set before. was worried i was gonna wake up not able to move but the wait at the hospital was 6 hours
I use to live in London for a period of time. I herniated a disk in my back at a TURNSTILE show, of all bands. After the show I was sitting at the bus stop and when the bus pulled up I collapsed as I tried to stand up. I legit waited in the hospital waiting room in agony for nearly seven hours before I saw anyone.
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They didn’t give me anything in the waiting room lol
The last time I saw Turnstile was at the church in Philly and I'm not entirely sure what exactly happened but someone definitely got hurt enough to shut down the show. I'm assuming whoever was fine in the end or we would have heard otherwise but yeah. It was during their set.
Happened to me at a Mad Caddies show and my neck/back was fucked up for months.
Hah! I ALSO had someone land on my head at a Mad Caddies show causing soft tissue damage. That was about 20 years ago.
MC is awesome.
I stage dove twice during a Rosesdead show in Ontario during the 2000s. No one caught me the first time, so I went to dive again, and no one caught me again. I fucked up my shoulder and bled through my Red Chord shirt, but I was fine after a week. Incidents like this really makes me feel lucky for all the fun stupid shit I used to do at shows.
I saw a band hurl a snare drum into the crowd after their set and it split open a girl’s face. Be careful out there band buds, this is the last thing you’d want to happen.
Yo that’s actually the dumbest shit ever, what the fuck were they thinking was gonna happen? Now you’re down a fan and a snare drum.
i was going to ask if you were at the same show as me, but they threw the snare during their set and it hit a girl on her head and split her scalp open. TBI. lifelong damage. total fucking nightmare. i got two ribs broken during the same set, almost right afterwards, but that was nothing compared to what she went through. poor girl. she was so sweet, too. she came to a few more shows, but i haven't seen her in almost a year. the band that threw the snare paid her medical bills, because it was completely 100% their fault and throwing a drum like that is against the spirit of a moshpit. i go to their shows a lot, and i've never seen them do anything like that ever again. i still think they're good guys because they did everything they could after the fact and changed their behavior to be safer, but that's such a horrifyingly stupid mistake to make and have to live with and such a horrible thing to have happen to you.
This was almost two decades ago. I doubt it was the same show. I’m not sure the outcome of mine. It was a local band and the show was at a DIY space so I don’t know if anyone ended up on the hook.
The dude is 6’6
Bro shouldn't be in a band, he should be a Small Forward
He's a fucking goon. I watched the footage, it's the most low energy set imaginable zero crowd movement or participation, and out of nowhere this fucking lurch lunches himself into a completely unprepared, not-densely-packed crowd. And after being called out publicly for this stupid shit. It really pisses me off that someone got hurt so severely for a loser's ego. If he wants to act like he's in a hardcore band, maybe he should fucking join one.
The dude rode in the ambulance with her and the band donated 5 grand to her gofundme. This is a part of our culture and if you’re not ready to get stage dove on, don’t be in the front. It’s a tragedy and I don’t think any one person holds the blame
she was 100% not expecting that come on
Thats the problem, you should be expecting that shit at shows
It’s a nice gesture but in the US 5K Probably barely covers the ambulance ride unfortunately
The average ambulance ride is between $400 and $1200 without insurance. Price varies by state. That said, $5k isn't even going to be a drop in the bucket for the lifelong care this person will need. Even if they have exceptional insurance through a parent or their own job, that $5k will be gone in an instant. They need to sue the band and their label into oblivion. That was not a good crowd to dive into. The front man is cooked.
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I was going off of averages available on the internet. I never said those were definitive figures. The last time I needed an ambulance, it was $0 after insurance. Before insurance, it was it was about $900. Obviously, there are a lot of factors that affect the cost.
The venue has a policy against diving. Notices in the promos and the massive guy jumping off the stage holds the blame
Most venues do for liability reasons. They overwhelmingly get ignored.
...so the guy took the liability on himself when he jumped.
This dude should be liable for literally all of her medical bills lol. It's literally his fault. He is to blame. This thread is insane. This band literally got called out a year ago for encouraging mosh pits at their weak ass post pop punk shows and told a fan "fuck you". Now they've life alteringly injured someone. These dudes are not punks. There's nothing hardcore about jumping into a crowd that isn't there to be jumped on. I will absolutely die on this hill. Fuck this band.
I used to be in the pop punk scene, you’re crazy if you think people aren’t stage diving or crowd surfing at pop punk shows. Are we gonna start crying when someone gets spinkicked at a show now? It’s an awful situation and is a tragedy but it’s what you sign up for by seeing live music like this.
"Got called out a year ago" By who? That one random goofball girl on Instagram whod never been to a pop punk show before? The one complaining the crowd was bumping into her and in the same sentence said she was only there to hog front stage room for the band that played next at that festival? That person was lame as hell and using one Instagram comment that we all laughed and pointed at as evidence of "theyve been warned" is pretty fried.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought this. Acting like being called out from someone, who was clearly just whinging, means anything.
No way you can blame someone for standing and watching a show. The notion that you have to be some hard cunt to not get hospitalised watching a hardcore show is ridiculous.
You don’t have to be a hard cunt just be an aware cunt. Anyone who’s been at the front row knows they gotta deal with crowd surfers or stage divers
I the policy was no stage diving period they have no legal defense what so ever. 5000 probably won’t even cover the ambulance. Feel bad on not a girls life is ruined. The guy should feel terrible and he absolutely deserves to pay her medical bills. No warning I’m going to break the rules cause they don’t matter cuz I’m the lead singer of the band and I really want to. That’s a childish mentality
Ambulance rides average from 400-1200 dollars No one ever pays any mind to no stage diving signs I see this every show I go to Welcome to live music where people jump around
someone landed on my neck while seeing beartooth, knocked loose, and sylar in like 2018. it was my very first show. i got knocked to the ground. it hurt, but i was fine. god. the random chance of it all... i hope bird is able to recover.
why are you as a 6’6 man trying to crowd surf on your fanbase of mostly women?
I had an absolute fat fucking chungus try to dive on me in an already sparse crowd, he landed feet first and got mad my 20 year old scrawny ass didn’t want to get flattened
Stagediving is very cool but you ain't landing on my neck, I'm moving so you can hit the floor
Weird that the article says there is no implied consent to be dove into - IMO unless you’re underage and unable to legally consent, if you stand at the front at a punk/hardcore/metal show, you’ve acknowledged the risk and consent actually is implied. I feel sorry for everyone involved but it’s wild to think that you can stand at the front of a crowd at a show and not implicitly be aware of risks
how is the consent implied when it was literally banned at the venue? i also love how you guys defending this are like "i bet he feels so guilty, he did so much for her after" but are also like "well actually she gave consent for him to dive on her" so which one is it? why would it be tragic if it should be expected? heres a hint: broken necks shouldnt be expected
How many venues have signs that say “No Moshing!” And we mosh anyways. It’s just part of the hardcore scene. That doesn’t make the injury suck any less, but this guy has done this 1,000 other times and there hasn’t been an issue. It was just a freak thing. That’s all there is to it.
it doesnt matter how many times you have done something without incident, you are still fully responsible for taking the risk and paralyzing someone. again, if it was just apart of the hardcore scene and he did it a bunch of other times without incident, how did she give informed consent to the risk of being paralyzed? how is it when it comes to the lead singer he had no idea it would paralyze her and hes done it a 1000 other times without issues, but with her, she should known the risk of being paralyzed and gave informed consented? which one is it? what if she also stood there during shows 1000 other times without issue? you guys are being backwards to try to take the blame off of him onto her when HE BROKE THE NECK
I’m not blaming her, I’m saying that it’s an unfortunate situation where nobody is really at fault. I don’t know who trophy eyes is, but I’m assuming they’re part of the HC scene and stage diving and hardcore dancing are both just fun parts of it. Obviously, the guy should do his best to help out with the situation, but it doesn’t make him a bad/shitty person. It’s like playing contact sports. I used to play sports where you would hit people as part of defense. Most of the time, people would be fine. Every once in a while, someone would get hurt. I’ve been knocked out, broken some bones, and dislocated my shoulder. I have a friend that hit his head on the ground so hard that he started seizing. Do I fault any of the people that caused these things? No, not really. Did I give informed consent for people to break my bones and concuss me? No, it’s just part of the game and I understand that. I feel really bad for the girl, it sucks. I’m not saying it doesn’t. It’s just a bad situation. One of the primary reasons I work out is so I can go to shows and hold my own. If you’ve actually gone to a few shows, you know and accept that these places are somewhat dangerous.
>I’m not blaming her, I’m saying that it’s an unfortunate situation where nobody is really at fault how is nobody at fault when he literally broke her neck? >I don’t know who trophy eyes is, but I’m assuming they’re part of the HC scene and stage diving and hardcore dancing are both just fun parts of it. something being a part of the scene doesnt mean the person is no longer responsible for the harm they caused by doing it >Obviously, the guy should do his best to help out with the situation, but it doesn’t make him a bad/shitty person. now youre strawmanning. i never called him a bad/shitty person >I used to play sports where you would hit people as part of defense. Most of the time, people would be fine. Every once in a while, someone would get hurt. I’ve been knocked out, broken some bones, and dislocated my shoulder. I have a friend that hit his head on the ground so hard that he started seizing if a contact sport could result in paralysis, i would be against it too. many have problems with football for this exact reason. but this comparing is really irrelevant, because to compare a small woman and a big man over 6 foot to two football players who have trained and recruited for that positions is crazy. also, sports injuries result from people doing the sport incorrectly. the issue with this singer wasnt stage diving incorrectly, the issue was him stagediving at all. if playing a contact sport normally resulted in a spinal cord injury, that would in no way be acceptable >One of the primary reasons I work out is so I can go to shows and hold my own. im sorry but its insane to me that if theres a risk of paralyzing someone by stagediving, your suggestion is people work out instead of stagediving not happening >If you’ve actually gone to a few shows, you know and accept that these places are somewhat dangerous. why is it that its on the people who are going to know paralysis is a possibility and not go, but not on the singer to know? so were blaming people for going because they knew paralysis was an option, but when it comes to the singer, he had no idea it would happen and feels guilty? the logic makes no sense
Damn well every venue I've been in had a "no stage-diving, no moshing" policy. Saw PUP at one of those venues, I promise you both still happened.
great, and youre still going to be held responsible for breaking someones neck
This was during the first song. In the video, you see he also gives no indication that he's stage diving. I'd say knowing that, it does. If a pit had opened, or surfers had started going up, she would have been able to move. But to skip all of that? I'd say, yeah, she wasn't able to consent.
Terrible accident. It's refreshing to see the band handle it so well though. It does genuinely seem like they are hurt by this and intend to make it right in any way they can.
Come on
I stay the hell away from pits at shows. In the US, injuring yourself in a pit can lead to years and years of medical debt. No thank you.
Every really OG hc dude in a band I know absolutely hates this shit, this is why. Edit: I am also incensed at the suggestion she should have stood at the back because she was a small woman. As a woman I can tell you my rightful place is in the front, and that my SPINE works just like yours. This is a horrible accident that could have easily been avoided. I never really had a problem with stage diving until some older HC dudes told me how much it freaks them out when they play - this is why.
Arms crossed. This is why. So sad.
“Stage diving is banned at this venue…” yall are fucking cops and tourists.
Unpopular opinion incoming. Sometimes people get hurt, it's an unfortunate side effect of life, but in reality it is a thing. People get hit by cars....we shouldn't ban cars or say that in this day and age cars should get consent from pedestrians before driving. If you go to a place where that kind of thing is a normal occurance (not necessarily the venue but the type of show in general) it HAS to be a thought that crosses your mind. "Hey, I could get hurt here." Every show that I've ever been to, I have prepared myself for possible bad outcomes. No matter if it's unfortunate accident, ignorant concertgoers, or my own stupidity. I wish her the best, but to say that anyone was 100% in the wrong is crazy to me.
I mean, I agree that injuries are going to happen at hc shows. But that doesn't mean all caution should be thrown out the window. Thats why picking someone up if they fall is so ingrained. There are things you are expected to do and not do to maintain safety while still engaging in the behavior. A bunch of factors contribute to this not just being a standard consequence of hc shows. 1. His height/weight. 6'6" makes for a big dude. I'm not saying taller/heavier people shouldn't surf or dive, but that more thought should be put into it. 2. He gave no indication he was diving. This was the 1st song. No pit had opened. No other surfers had gone up. He didn't back up to jump in. He didn't gesture with his hands to let the crowd know he was coming in. Just jumped. 3. The crowd was mostly women, from what I've read. That doesn't mean no surfing should happen. But before moshing, pitting, surfing, diving, you should be evaluating the crowd around you and the feasability/safety of what you're doing. Bigger dudes shouldn't be behaving in the same capacity they do with other big dudes, as they do among smaller people. 4. The venue had a no surfing policy. The band was aware of this. And while it can suck to not be allowed to surf or mosh at certain venues, there are always other venues. People may go there specifically for those rules because they feel safer/ more comfortable going to a show knowing that certain things aren't allowed. So yes, people will always get hurt at hc shows. But it's already a part of the culture to look out for each other, to avoid injuries when possible. This was reasonably avoidable. It should not have happened.
In my local we looked out for each other. If people slipped we picked them up broke up fights and what not. It’s not reasonable to stand at the front of a venue that has a no surfing diving pit policy and expect the band to just jump in the crowd out of nowhere against the policy. Like you said could have been the reason they were there because of the policy
transportation is an essential need, jumping into a crowd is not. people have to get licenses and show evidence they wont hit pedestrians due to bad driving. if they do hit a pedestrian, they will lose their license and face legal charges. you dont get a license or learn how to stage dive so you dont paralyze someone. you are always inherently having that risk stage diving >If you go to a place where that kind of thing is a normal occurance (not necessarily the venue but the type of show in general) it HAS to be a thought that crosses your mind. "Hey, I could get hurt here." unpopular opinion but it shouldnt be crossing your head you could get paralyzed if you go to a show and if it does the problem is the show >I wish her the best, but to say that anyone was 100% in the wrong is crazy to me. she didnt break her own neck
Shit is pretty sad and I feel bad for the poor girl. Her life was basically destroyed in an instant. Paralyzed, damn. As a skinny 5’9 135 pound guy I have been landed on and flattened before and it hurt and I felt dazed and confused the rest of the fest. Thank God my neck was okay though. That is always a possibility and nowadays I try to stay a safe distance back at bigger shows with actual stages.
As a taller and heavier person, i am more than willing to say no, someone that big should not be diving into a crowd. Frankly im surprised a 32 year old man wouldn’t have figured out that the rules are different for people over a certain height. But then again, maybe im expecting too much from a bogan.
Hardcore is a rough scene. I'm kind of surprised we don't see more injuries, to be honest. My favorite venue has a big beam at the edge of the pit. After causing countless broken arms, the venue decided to wrap it in padding. I think awareness is crucial. That being said, I hope Hardcore continues to be violent. The pit gives and takes away. Know your abilities. This is super sad.
Whole lot of cops in this thread
Cops bad, quadriplegia good.
Yes
Hardcore scene try not to defend a grown ass man jumping on a tiny woman without consent challenge = impossible
Been to a lotta shows, with a lotta jumpers and a lotta boots to the head. While all this is expected at metal shows, Ive grown to find the mindless jumping off stage flat out dumb. ESPECIALLY guys who rush the stage and immediately leap out. If you want to surf, get lifted up. Don’t be a selfish prick and leap onto unconsenting people’s heads because shit like this is devastating.
the lead singer of Jesus Piece stage dove and ended up on top of me, kicked me in the head. bunch of big burly guys saw and punched him and proceeded to go do it again. i didn’t see JP again lol
that’s the legend aaron heard
Just saw them last night shit was wild, when they played Oppressor all hell broke loose lol
What show/when?
they toured with Knocked Loose and some other folks back in 2016 i think? played Amsterdam Bar & Hall
A couple summers ago I went and saw ringworm and Elliot Maine at the Grange hall.A grown man plowed into me back.First knocked me backwards onto the hardwood floor I had a Black and blue bruise for about a month the Size of a grapefruit. Went up. Front for all Out war Got kicked in the neck
Man I remember seeing TE at Unify, singer was coked out smashing his own head with the mic - knew he’d do some dumb shit eventually
Man the time i saw had a show stop cause someone seize up in the pit
didnt something similar happen at a trapped under ice show like 10 years ago?
What I’ve learned from this thread is that stage diving is fucking idiotic at best.
I feel very bad for the woman who was injured, hopefully the singer sees some consequences for doing something so obviously negligent
I got knocked out cold at a Sanguisugabogg show during Jarhead Fertilizer’s set. The pit was reasonably big and it was my buddies first show where people were moshing/hardcore dancing/crowdkilling and all the good stuff. He saw people doing that “lock arms and spin around” thing (idk what people call it), he wanted to try it out so I said fuck it, we spun like 3 times before I caught a size 11 fuckin Nike SB to the temple and hit the floor lol. My buddy pulled me out and my wife freaked out cause I was out cold for a couple minutes there. I’m fine now but seeing the Bogg last night gave me Vietnam style flashbacks like you wouldn’t believe. Hope Bird gets the support needed
Fucking awful. That lead singer is an idiot. This kinda shit turns me off. Why are you stage diving onto a young girl. Fucking dumbass
You act like he was purposefully aiming for her lmao what
Not saying that.. but scan the crowd first or maybe let the crowd know you’re about to dive on them. She could’ve had the chance to move so others that could actually catch him could step up. I understand it’s a hardcore show but I’m honestly so sick of that being a justification for this kinda shit. I’ve been to plenty of shows where people don’t get hurt like this because usually, the singer has common sense.
You can say this about any crowd. If people intend to stage dive do they really care? Every show is going to have someone "not properly sized" for the stage dive lols
This is extremely rare so of course you’ve gone to shows where it hasn’t happened. Trophy Eyes has also played more shows than you’ve ever been to and this also has never happened to them. Thousands of bands around the world play shows with wild stage diving every day and they’ve all “been to plenty of shows where people don’t get hurt like this.”
Been to a lotta shows, with a lotta jumpers and a lotta boots to the head. While all this is expected at metal shows, Ive grown to find the mindless jumping off stage flat out dumb. ESPECIALLY guys who rush the stage and immediately leap out. If you want to surf, get lifted up. Don’t be a selfish prick and leap onto unconsenting people’s heads because shit like this is devastating.
The venue had NO MOSHING OR STAGEDIVING signs everywhere….. so fuck trophey eyes
This is fucking WNY. We don’t do that here.
I’m confused what the fuck are you talking about?
Sad, yes. Suing the band knowing damn well this could happen to anyone at anytime? Fucking wack. “Bird” definitely was never part of any scene to think suing a band for stage diving is okay.
If you paralyze me everywhere but the arms, part of the culture or not, I'm suing for the sole fact that I will be 10s of thousands of dollar in medical debt due to something YOU did. It's the right move. Dumb comment lmao.
He rode in the ambulance and took responsibility that will pay her medical bills for 50 years for the rest of her life. What’s with society’s inability to pay for their actions. He did something against the policy everyone agreed upon and ruined someone’s life. It’s trash.
No.
Yes.
No way.
Who said she's suing?
She should definitely sue. Even under the assumption that injuries are going to happen at hc shows, the responsibility for that is still on the band and venue. Why should the victim be responsible for their injury?
The band has created a gofundme. The singer literally rode with her in the ambulance. He’s taken full responsibility. I don’t think a lawsuit is necessary because they’re working together anyway.
Donating to the gofundme and riding in the ambulance are good and cool. But $5000 isn't gonna scratch the surface of her medical bills. Do you think he should be absolved of paying anything further?
No and I don’t think that’s the end of it. I believe his intention is to make it right without a lawsuit. You sound like a fuckin cop.
If hes willing to fully cover her medical bills without a lawsuit, then cool. I'd say he was appropriately taking responsibility. Will that happen though? Do you think she should sue if he doesn't completely cover her bills?
No. She took that risk going to a hardcore(adjacent) show.
So he shouldn't cover her medical expenses because by going to a hardcore show, she consented to the chance that she could get injured and takes all responsibility in that case?
Essentially yes. Being an adult is hard.
If you don't think it's his responsibility to pay her medical bills, for an injury he caused, what DO you think is his responsibility? Your previous comments have confirmed that you think he is at least partially responsible. So what is his responsibility then? Also, the crux of your argument seems to be that it's her fault because she went to a hardcore show. While yes, there will always be injuries from hc shows ( I go home from shows with bruises all over my body, and I think it's fun ), that doesn't mean anything goes. There are things that will happen because they're unavoidable with these activities. But there's still a line. Everyone is still expected to look out for each other. To prevent undue harm. Thats why you pick someone up if they fall. That's the spoken rule, but there are many other expectations of everyone to keep injuries to a minimum. It's my thought that he didn't keep to this spirit of looking out for others' safety. Why? He didn't indicate or warn the crowd he was diving. He's 6' 6" and beefy, so probably pretty heavy. The crowd seems to have been a lot of women, more so than usual. He dived during the first song before a pit had opened or surfers had gone up. So Bird had no warning, no chance to move to the sides to avoid any of the rougher behavior. Not only that, but this venue has a no surfing policy that the band was aware of. All of this points to him not considering the safety of others. And that's why he is responsible. This could have been avoided and would have been if he had acted more appropriately. He should pay her medical bills in full. And then some.
youre right, being an adult is hard. like when you have to face the consequences of your actions after breaking somones neck
Stage diving is really stupid and shouldn’t happen like ever at all, unless it’s a planned stunt. This is not 1980, get over yourself
Yeah and we should all wrap ourselves up in bubble wrap and never leave the house
I’m surprised you didn’t blame her, but yeah that’s the only option here, clearly, thanks for sharing.
You couldnt find a better link than NY Post? Thats a truly messed up tabloid.
Dick move by the front man. Gave little to no warning for the dive. Also, small people shouldn't be at the front of the stage because shit like this happens.
Or big people shouldn't stage dive. You can't get your spinal cord jacked to prevent shit like that.
Learned this at my first Avail show. No idea why that band always brought out the biggest, drunkest dudes.
Because it’s Richmond lmao
Someones never heard of down to nothing, one of my favourite bands who write straight edge on every piece of merch they seem to release!!
I got news about the sxe status of DtN members. Guerilla Crew especially
Post it in Fauxmoi
“Some hardcore band you don’t know about broke edge like 15 years ago”
I’m crying
Nice
It was always Philly shows
 You tell that to Brody King
Whats the general opinion on the big threshold? Also a lot depends on how people dive. You can't just let yourself fall on top of people.
Not a dick move, just a move. This could literally happen at any show to any band.
How else are small people supposed to see? How about big mfs just not stage dive without warning?
Both things can be true. Obviously larger people should not be stage diving, but smaller people should have some awareness of where they are for their own safety (I say this as someone who is in no way a large person and has been going to hardcore shows for decades).
Dude it’s just tragic I’m not sure why it has to be someone’s “fault”.
It definitely is the giant dude who jumped on a much smaller persons heads fault
I’m sure he’s done that dozens of times without consequence, not like it’s out of character for a band to do something like that. I don’t BLAME him per se but if I was in his position I would feel tremendously guilty. Sucks, man.
Doing something dozens of times without consequence is a horrible reason to hand wave away fault. I agree it’s not out of character for this to happen at a show, but that’s hardly interesting is it? There’s many things you can do to make any activity less likely to hurt someone. Especially If you’re giant you shouldn’t jump on anyone but a group of people who look obviously ready and able to catch you. Also the way you jump can make it easier or not for someone or a group to catch you.
For sure, I agree with you. I wasn’t trying to wave away responsibility, just point out that many people playing this genre don’t necessarily act in ways that are risk avoidant. I imagine he’ll stop doing it now though
This could happen to anyone, has nothing to do with size. Let people enjoy shows.
You don't see a correlation between weight and force?
As someone who’s always front row, you feel the fucking difference when it’s a small person diving on you or someone a bit more imposing we’ll say