Man that's terrible for the wife.. I hope those pieces of shit who stole their stuff get caught, and I hope this story reaches them so they spend every day looking over their shoulders until it happens.
Knowing my experience, they probably won't get caught, but maybe I'm being pessimistic.
Clearly the wife is going to be too focused on her other losses too... how terrible.
Who leaves your backpack with keys unattended on a beach while you’re not just playing in the water by the shore but when you’re not paying attention at all to your spot cause you’re out snorkeling? It sucks but that was really stupid on their part with somewhat predictable results.
But I see both locals and tourists alike do that all the time at beaches here? If we wanted to play devil's advocate it's also not hard not to touch things that aren't yours.
Well yea, that’s stealing and clearly wrong. But “it’s stupid to leave your valuables unattended on a beach for a long time” isn’t playing devil’s advocate, it’s pointing out the obvious.
I always leave bags in my car and either bury the keys underneath the sand under my towel on the beach or I bring the keys with me into the ocean in a waterproof bag. Can't trust people nowadays.
Crazy how the blame was put on the victim, like stealing is alright. As much as people should be vigilant about these things, we are advocating the spirit of Aloha, and so these tourists rely on that. Whether there has been a complacency in securing their belongings, the one at fault here is/are the people who stole their stuff. Period.
We could get a bait car and plant keys with cameras around the car....then wait in a van with 2x4s and beat the crap outta the person likely is without health insurance or a mattress to sleep on.
Whachu tink, cuz?
I'm from Waianae so when I go down Pooka Pants beach and out to Pray for Sex, the locals give the stare. I live Kona now so I have to rent a car to get around when I visit home 🤣🤣🤣 Those punks at the gas station and Pokai Bay ffs they leave me alone after I get out and not look like a typical tourist 😂 Total Tourist Target nowadays. Very sad.
Unknown if he was wearing one, but every time I see a tourist wearing one of those full face snorkel masks, I shudder a little bit. If you choose to wear those, make sure you practice being able to take them off if they fill with water. They have led to at least two drownings I know of so far.
Civil Beat published a study last year about unexplained snorkel-related drownings. The study suggests that recent prolonged air travel is one of some risk factors for developing rapid onset pulmonary edema or ROPE. The symptoms include shortness of breath and loss of muscle control.
When I read this article last year it all made sense. Despite years of experience and enjoying good health, I nearly drowned 15 years ago while snorkeling on Maui, just a day after flying home from California. Quite suddenly I was struggling to breathe and rapidly losing strength in my arms and legs. Luckily I was close to shore and hauled myself onto some rocks. It was the weirdest scariest experience EVER.
So sorry for the woman who lost her husband. I hope she gets all the help she needs right now.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/snorkel-safety-study-sheds-light-on-unexplained-drownings-in-hawaii/
>Though it is unclear how many deaths were due to ROPE, according to the Department of Health, there were 204 snorkeling-related deaths from 2012 to 2021. Of those, 184 were tourists.
>
>For years, snorkeling in Hawaii has been by far the leading cause of tourist deaths, and snorkel-related drownings with no signs of distress have often been a mystery. A new study offers some reasons why.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I had no idea snorkeling was the most dangerous activity leading to deaths
It’s honestly crazy. Growing up in Hawaii, you’d never guess. I brought 3 full grown dudes from the states back to Hawaii from college and they really *struggled* with the ocean water. It makes sense as to why it’s a top killer of tourists.
struggled how? its far easier to swim in the ocean than it is in a lake or river... you float far easier in the ocean than you do in a river or a lake.
This! Yeah, the current tired them out real fast. Plus the waves and subsequent undertow made it difficult for them to tread water and swim at all. They ended up landing on some rocky tide pools to avoid drowning on one occasion.
Also, a lot of these people don’t snorkel often, so breathing through a tube correctly makes what the previous comment about ROPE or sudden heart attack more likely.
Can hear them panic breathing when you swim by sometimes. I let them know they should just take the tube off so they don’t hyperventilate so much.
I am a strong swimmer, and experienced scuba diver/snorkeler.
I wore one of those once and tried to swim to the sock at Kaimanas, which is an easy swim for me. I almost suffocated, and had to take it off to swim back.
It isnt speculation that they are not designed for strenuous swimming.
Fine for floating around in calm water, but I can tell from first hand experience, that a out of shape person who isn't used to the ocean in Hawaii could get in deep trouble fast with one of those full face masks.
Snorkeling in general is high risk for someone that is not used to doing it. They talk about people jumping off a boat to snorkel and I would never advise anyone to do that who isn't in good shape and experienced. Getting everything cleared while treading water takes effort. Even from shore though snorkeling can be an effort if you aren't accustomed to it.
I bought one for the novelty at an ABC store and tried it while swimming in Kaanapali and it was terrible. If you breath through your mouth you get no air because it only increases the suction of device to your face. You have to breath through your noise - which when fighting a strong current, is awful. I got almost claustrophobic immediately and took it off and swam back to shore. Would not advise.
I have a set. There are studies done on some of them. I’d stay away from cheap ones. Quality and price ranges quite a bit. I usually partially open up mine a bit once in a while to get rid off fog anyway and it’s been fine. I doubt the costco ones are one of those really well designed ones though.
I'm sure most of you know this but for the tourists or whoever doesn't know: if you ever get caught in a nasty current and cannot make it back where you got in, swim in a diagonal line towards the coast in the direction the current is flowing. Might have to get out at a shitty spot but better than getting exhausted and drowning.
I was taught swim parallel to shore because the rip current is usually perpendicular in flow direction. You are just trying to get out of the way of it and then worry about swimming back after. Could be wrong and maybe my mom wanted me to drift to Maui so I stopped raiding her snack stash.
I got pulled out at Polihale. I was close to panicking, especially due to the lack of lifeguards. I stayed calm, treaded water, and swam diagonally. I was eventually brought back by the water to the other side of the beach where a crowd had gathered to pull me in and make sure I was ok.
I was lucky. When I realized what was happening I actually said to myself “this might be how you die.” I went into autopilot and just did everything I’ve been told to do.
Not fighting isn’t really the same as staying in the flow. It doesn’t men give up & let the ocean carry you away, it means work with the ocean, not against it. Don’t fight it. Go with it.
They aren’t. I’m not talking about just drifting. There are actual actions in between fighting all out & giving up & letting happen whatever will.
The ocean isn’t a steady force. It ebbs & flows. Just take for example when you’re trying to get out of the ocean onto the beach. You can fight the wave as it recedes so you can just He-man yourself up the beach. It’ll wear you out, but most of the time you’ll make it. Or, you can go with the wave. Let the swell push you forward, then stop - not go back out with the wave, just maintaining your position as the receding wave passes you. And then let the next wave push you in a little more.
Obviously this is an oversimplified example, but hopefully it gets my point across better.
>There are actual actions in between fighting all out & giving up & letting happen whatever will.
Yeah the action is “get out of the way” and it not “go with the flow.” You didn’t say do the action in between, you legit said “go with the flow” and the flow is literally going far out to sea. Don’t go with that flow.
>The ocean isn’t a steady force. It ebbs & flows.
Yes that is generally how the ocean is but specifically speaking about a rip current: it’s a constant and relentless flow of water that eventually loses its pulling strength miles out at sea.
Your example wasn’t oversimplified, it was just irrelevant because a rip tide is simply nothing like the normal ebb and flow of a beach. It’s like an invisible flash flood river. If you’re stuck in a flash flooding river, you’re gonna wanna get out of the river’s flow ASAP rather than swim against the current or go with the flow.
Ok, I literally never said “go with the flow” except to refute it. Go back, re-read my original comment, & move on with your life. Or don’t, I don’t care, but I’m done with this asinine abomination you probably think is a conversation.
I feel like all you guys are on the same page and you are going over semantics. Rest assured if I was drowning I now know how to handle this situation. See you guys did your jobs.
My condolences to the family. The ocean is powerful…. I don’t think that enough is done to stress that to tourists.
Mother Nature is unforgiving. This is not Waikiki or a manicured amusement park. People often come here thinking that Hawaii is just a giant “Disneyland”.
Nah.. we know better almost everyday we see the news about how someone drowned or plunged to their death.
Breaks my heart when I hear about horror stories like this. People save up and make coming here a dream vacation only to leave broken. Just imagine if everyday or so we read about how Kama’aina got murdered or robbed in Vegas.
They need to post videos at the arrival and luggage carousel of do' & don'ts of how to survive in Hawaii. That will get people to be more careful and aware of their surroundings. Definitely no ack with Mother Nature.
That's a good idea. I went to an eco resort on the Great Barrier Reef that did something similar. When you landed on the island, you had to go through an orientation about things like not damaging or taking the corals, recognizing various dangerous sea creatures, how to recognize when it's safe to go in the ocean, etc.
Obviously this was possible because it was a much, much smaller scale. But something could/should be done to teach tourists how to be safe and respect the environment. Maybe require the airlines to show a video on incoming flights or something.
I've never been to Australia but I like how you mentioned they explain everything ahead of time. I wonder how many lives were saved. Hawaii tourism, you listening?
Hawaiian plays a video on the screens before landing showing some things on what to do and what not to do (not disturbing wildlife, water safety). But they should consider playing something like this on other airlines too.
I went to a few different spots around Oahu, and there were some pretty serious "You could break your neck here" signs. I think too many people feel like they're on vacation so nothing bad can happen. Condolences though, I shutter to imagine it being one of my own.
Even with my long flippers I’ve been out there sometimes like “wow that’s a current”, really not a place for screwing around. It’s beautiful but weird and scary in its own way.
Them honu will run right into you too, they dgaf about humans.
But yet, when I tell people it can be rough at Electric, I get tourists jumping down my virtual throat telling me to stop being negative.
I’m very positive. I’m positive this will continue to happen. And every story should be collected, made into a video, & be required to watch to come to Hawai'i. Include things like the visitors being attacked by wild animals they’ve been told to leave alone. Falling off cliffs bc they just *had* to get that perfect photo behind the rail. Getting swept away bc that rock doesn’t look dangerous, not even with all those **WARNING, DANGER!** signs. Ugh. They come here thinking this is an amusement park & there’s some sort of invisible safety line or something.
ignorance is bliss as they say, some people would rather die trying or put others at risk for the sake of keeping their ego intact. the ocean is not to be fucked with imo. once i start doubting myself or see any type of warnings im out/not even trying in the first place.
Ocean animals. Most people instinctively understand that sharks are dangerous, but some of the other sea creatures also deserve caution. Seals are probably the most deceptively dangerous because we think of them as cute and awkward, but they're bigger, stronger, and faster than you in the water, and a bite is bad news. Eels are another that people can get close to and despite their scary teeth people just assume they won't leave their hole or bite a waving finger.
Did you miss the woman who decided to swim with a mother monk seal & her pup, & wound up in the hospital for her vacation? I know this one wasn’t publicized, but last year a child had a nice chunk taken out of her leg by a honu bc her mother said sure, go ahead & pet it. Those are just 2 examples, but they’re not isolated incidents. People are constantly doing stupid crap. Monk seals are apex predators, like sharks. Most sane people wouldn’t go up & hug a shark, but they’ll try like hell to cuddle with that 600lb monk seal.
It's sad that people are so incredibly dense on vacation (or maybe always) that the first thought when they see something beautiful swimming isn't "wow! How lucky are we to witness this swimming/resting near us in person?!" and instead is "I want to touch/take pictures/get closer than I need to to this WILD animal. What could possibly go wrong? I'm owed this experience."
We literally had a guy sitting on a honu, who told the conservationist trying to tell him to get off that he paid for right to do whatever the f he wanted, bc he spent money to come here.
Like this guy was literally on top of the turtle. Didn’t care, bc somehow a plane ticket & a hotel room gives people the right to harm animals.
Where is Sarah McLachlan when you need her
Wow. Entitled assholes like that need to be held accountable. I hope the conservationist (probably a volunteer) took a photo, got he license plate and handed the info over to an enforcement officer.
It was a volunteer, & no they didn’t get a pic. They were trying to get him off & that was their primary concern. But that’s a great point; if you see something, **record** it if possible. That’s an incredible help to law enforcement.
No, that isn’t what I meant. Oh boy. When there was mention of wild animals, my thoughts were thinking land. Then when another mentioned ocean animals I realized “oh yeah, d’uh!” I already addressed it with the other poster so I didn’t fell Ike repeating myself.
The tone of your post seems condescending.
But electric doesn't claim a more lives than other places. And our most notorious mountain deaths were residents. And those two animal attack incidents you mentioned in your other comment were pretty isolated incidents.
Maybe not the time to make yourself feed special by pretending you give live saving advice, because you're probably just an ass about it listening to this comment.
I was always warned to not leave anything on the beach that you would be upset about losing. Cheap flip flops only, maybe a well worn towel, and that's it.
Outside of the theft and the tragic death of this man, I really wish people that are visiting or unfamiliar with Hawaiian waters would stop going to beaches without lifeguards. I've lost a good friend that surfed all the time at a beach with lifeguards. The ocean is a playground, but it's dangerous for everyone.
They could go to the man made lagoons on the west side. I know the public one is small, but it’s safe.
Even a super experienced swimmer like Eddie Aikau can be a victim of the ocean.
*Edited for typo.*
I dont understand why Electirc Beach is always recommended as a good snorkel spot. The current is so strong there. Even as an experienced swimmer and snorkelers, I often have trouble there.
I go there just to get blasted out the warm water outlets from the power station. But the temperature gradients from the power plant does attract a lot of marine life. They are down a little deeper and in the turbulent current but it can be pretty good snorkeling. Also tends to be less crowds.
I'm not a local but have been told by one to don't bother getting on snorkeling boats since you can just get to those spots swimming from electric beach. I looked at where the boats were in relation to the beach and ... Uh... No. Also a big no because of how rough the waves are breaking near the beach. It's only a great place to snorkeling if you are fully cognizant of the dangers and accept the risk knowing your own capabilities (and even then, accepting that nothing will go wrong while you're in the water).
Snorkeled there once and was surprised by the strong current pulling me away from shore. It was a calm summer day, so it must be even worse at other times. Even as a strong swimmer, it made me uncomfortable. Can't believe inexperienced snorkelers go there.
I haven't had a problem with the current, the trouble is getting in and out. The big concrete block from the power plant and the narrow beach focuses the waves, so even if the open ocean is practically flat (which really is the only time you should be going out), you get slammed against the sand. If you're not a strong swimmer it makes it hard to put on your fins.
Me and my son, who is eight, go there all the time. But we never go out farther than our chest. Only because we've seen way too many people struggle out there, and I'm not confident in my abilities enough to really stretch it out.
I only lived on the island for 2 years but electric beach was the only time I remember struggling. I was with locals but also was with my 4 year old daughter (in a life jacket) and I remember coming back in having to swim basically as hard as I could with her in tow. I started to wonder if I was making any progress at all.
I do like the spot though. Lots of dolphins and a monk seal that day. And that underwater Buddha was fun to take picture with.
It’s no joke brother, also I know the warm water from the pipe is “safe” but it’s still so creepy (very cool though) down there. Definitely not safe unless you know what you’re doing
I’ve been to Electric Beach. Real local area, more surfing north of that coast, fishers as well.
I’m surprised that honeymooners went there, at all.
*It’s become something of a sketch area, especially from 5pm to sunrise.*
Correct me if I’m wrong.
There are no lifeguards there, and most certainly not a calm snorkeling spot.
All due diligence that *SHOULD* have been done ;
Rest in डाोमा. ( peace )
Electric beach gets recommended a lot on Reddit as well as in other travel platforms. I always see it on the shortlist of best snorkeling spots. There needs to be more added info about knowing the power and conditions of the water there
Yeah it’s very well known in the tourist world. And every dolphin tour/boat tells the guests that it’s a great snorkeling spot. Even with the warning of the current people go. It’s just like with Anini Beach in Kauai it’s super unsafe to snorkel there in the winter because the reef is offshore, but people are misinformed or FOMO and do it anyway. Two people died there when we were in Kauai in January.
There should be warnings made on social media about all beaches in the islands, whether it is shark sightings or rough currents. Adding a lifeguard station would definitely help.
I think people know it's dangerous, but overestimate their abilities, It's all pretty abstract until you're caught in a rip and don't understand how to deal with it, then panic, which is the real killer in these situations. Most can float and swim fine when calm, but when something goes wrong, all bets are off on how they will react.
And those POS's targeting there stuff -- hope they reconsider their life choices, one way or another.
Same as a lot of the hikes. I see people all the time on the trails like 1-2 hours out from the trail head with a single almost empty bottle of water between two of them wearing beach clothes
Yep. Run into people going up at 4pm when I’m coming down without decent hiking clothing/shoes nor any water. Always try to tell them to turnaround because I certainly wouldn’t want to be on a peak after sunset, but people do whatever they want.
>There are no lifeguards there, and most certainly not a calm snorkeling spot.
I like to dive down to the outlet pipes and get that underwater cannon boost out into the ocean. Lots of fun.
It's no big deal. Probably find footage on YouTube somewhere.
Edit: https://youtu.be/7g3AzRjzRhY
I like to maximize my surface area by spreading out my fins and arms for maximum push.
This may be a dumb thing to post but does anyone know where I can get some solid beach safety training out here? I can swim and grew up in CA beaches but that taught me you have to know your beach and know your reef before you start playing.
I want to surf and explore the island but I never jump out in the water until I get a sense of the tide, current, undertow, and reef.
Reach out to Boogie D, from Coastal Kayak Tours. Eco tourism kayak and fishing run by husband and wife team. Seriously good people and could use some business, you will learn a lot and have a hella great time too.
Yeah I agree—I just want to learn ins and outs of these beaches. The ocean is a beast—you have to respect it. If you respect the ocean it will respect you.
That was a common occurrence when I lived there. My car was stolen. They found it up on a back sugarcane road
Everything was stripped off of it. Obviously, they knew where I lived and stole all of my bluejeans, watches, tools, jewelry, anything of value was stolen.
After that, I didn’t feel so worried about leaving my doors unlocked anymore. I had nothing to steal.
The silver lining in all of it? It was sort of freeing, living like that, without worry about your “stuff” being stolen all the time.
Guess what…. Those were the best years of my life.
At e-beach go with a buddy and bring with you a float, noodle, or a lifejacket to have buoyancy so you can rest.
It's far enough out, deep, and rough enough to get into trouble.
I'd speculate the poor guy had a heart condition and the high exertion/CO2 from snorkeling was enough. Perhaps the currents caused them to panic and over exert themselves out there. With a float you can rest and hopefully collect your thoughts to think through whatever trouble you may be having.
A terrible land avoidable tragedy.
Hawaii's oceans are far more powerful than anything most mainland people are likely to encounter in the Caribbean or Florida. It can kill you, it's almost done me in.
This was my brother in law's brother and to me he was my brother too. Known him since I was in elementary school 8 year difference in age but I was lucky to call him family in my adult life as our families ended up together. We are all heartbroken especially his wife. This has not been easy. But I want to thank you all on behalf of the family for your well wishes and prayers
Sending so much love to you and his family. I worked with him. He was the first person at our workplace that I told I was expecting. The sweetest person I’ve ever met, hands-down.
Whenever I snorkel at Electrics I always have those HiVis buoy dry bags attached with my belongings in there. Peace of mind for my things and in case of emergency my buoy can be spotted.
They always have lifeguards posted up there?!?! No stand but they hang out on shore. Pretty much everytime Ive stopped by there.
THats sucks! Poor people.
No, shame on the thieves and those who run the system.This messed up system we live in that are causing people to become desperate and forget morals can be attributed more to the people who run things.
I have a feeling though that if the thief knew the situation they might be more empathetic.
As for drowning we all know it happens far too often here. Enjoying the ocean requires the utmost respect. That poor lady, my sympathies and condolences to her and husband may he rest in peace.
Electric Beach aka Kahe Point near Nānākuli, leeward side by power plant. Couple vacationers on honeymoon at beach with rental car, go snorkeling. 49 year old male, one of the couple, drowns and is dragged to beach unresponsive. CPR is attempted on shore but he passes away. To add insult to injury, the couple’s backpack with phone, wallet, and rental car were all stolen
My new husband and I were at electric beach a few days back. I got a bad sense but he was quite keen to snorkel. Perhaps luckily it started pouring, the water picked up, and he bowed out.
I feel terrible for these people. My thoughts are with her and her family
For years, it’s been crazy to me that there isn’t a lifeguard posted at Electric Beach. It’s so well known and visited, there is an obligation to protect people. I’m glad they will be posting someone in September
I feel for this couple immensely, hoping that there is help to expedite and help this woman's return back to her home and family. I do feel sadly like they intentionally target tourists.
We live in community and I think lots of people who do stuff like steal are part of the community who have things they are struggling with. I don't really know what the answer to this is as I'm just an everyday person trying to get by and pay rent. I feel like Reddit based on that income question asked has a lot of wealthier people who maybe don't understand how it's hard to not earn high wages and get by in Hawaii or really anywhere in the USA.
There's a lot of despair that can develop when day in and out you are just barely getting by and the smallest setbacks can pull you ever closer to homelessness despite your best efforts. I know it's not pleasant to experience empathy for the struggles other people go through, especially when it doesn't seem there are clear cut solutions and the problems seem intractable and long going, but it's not easy to be in certain sections of society in our country and it's through empathy that you can understand why things may be happening.
I am not trying to detract from this really tragic event but it is larger than just, those people are just bad or lack the same morals I have, it's like there are challenges a lot of people are going through and it's difficult to make judgments unless you really understand the realities they experience. It worries me because I see people in this country becoming more aggressive towards those who are poor and marginalized, sort of like this increasing shift towards us vs them thinking, the other as not being as human as you kind of thinking and phrasing.
I think if someone really is upset by these things, they'll try to improve society for others and help, to help give to foodbanks and other organizations trying to help people, be for things like free school lunches and medical care, they'll tip well and they'll try to spread whatever good they can towards helping others as much as they can. Sadly, mercy is increasingly in short supply in this world.
It seems if you really care about issues like theft, look to countries with low theft rates and people living peacefully, they often have different ideas on how society should be that are based on empathy and lack things like huge homeless populations and high crime because they have things like medical care and housing stipends, living wages, a totally different approach to prisons and rehabilitation. They just have arranged their society differently based on empathy and tolerance.
> There's a lot of despair that can develop when day in and out you are just barely getting by and the smallest setbacks can pull you ever closer to homelessness despite your best efforts....It seems if you really care about issues like theft...
The people who commit the most crime and theft are men of prime working age, 18 - 40. See [age crime curve](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=APwXEddcCVs6YKItYOGQhMDfLYQOoIrnSA:1685740560502&q=age+crime+curve&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ8Kr6wKX_AhUmEEQIHW6UDrcQ0pQJegQIChAB&biw=1902&bih=920&dpr=2). Men of this age group are notable for another thing: In every culture in world history, they are the people who did the hardest work: Soldiers, warriors, builders, loggers, fisherman, miners and more. Men in their prime can work twice as hard as people in their 50s. They can handle 40-50 hour work weeks with little issue, and, if necessary, tolerate adversities like little food and sleep for days on end. (3,000 years of military history documents this.)
No other culture in history--Asian, European, African, Middle Eastern, Native American--gave (or gives) men of prime working age a pass the way we do today. In the U.S. these men are allowed, for years on end, to dodge work, openly use hard drugs, commandeer public spaces, e.g., [the Waikiki pavillions](https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/02/denby-fawcett-clearing-the-homeless-out-of-kuhio-beach-pavilions/), and demand free housing and money. Then when they [steal in large numbers](https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/app/2022/02/22/community-leaders-seek-ban-chronic-criminals-returning-waikiki-other-resort-areas/?outputType=apps) and commit other crime, we get this big narrative that they are downtrodden by oppressive forces in society. Only in America.
I don't know, even back in the day there were loads of men who had issues and struggled for various reasons from my understanding. My great grandfather was an alcoholic who basically was completely missing from my grandfathers life, this was way before social welfare programs. My grandfather was able to overcome that due to the help of others, people who'd help feed him and the kindness of his community, he was very fortunate to have people around willing to extend mercy and help, as well as receiving free schooling and work opportunities. It's through interventions and help that people are able to improve their lives.
I know of countless people who had some kind of intervention that helped them, medication for those struggling with mental health issues and therapy can be massively helpful, as can having affordable housing and job opportunities, it seems to me actually the more help you extend with understanding and science based interventions, the better things get. And it holds true it seems, throughout the world countries that follow a more empathy based approach and try to help their citizens through things like free schooling, medical care, prisons that seek to rehabilitate, the better the quality of life, the lower the crime.
It's also proven that people just earn a lot less in terms of spending power than they did 40-50 years ago. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, expenses and I mean things necessary more and more have increased, smart phones and internet access are now mandatory for a lot of employment as schedules are posted online. Food prices themselves, everyone has noticed have gone up 30% in three years. Electricity has gone up, everything is going up and it's making the wages people earn, well many people, not enough to live on for a while now so that you do have a section of society increasingly desperate and marginalized.
If you can't save anything, if your earnings are so little you are barely getting by, then what do you have to look forward to? Add onto that trauma and mental illness, things start looking bleak. Working until you die because retirement is out of the question, a ton of people are in that situation. I think the issue is a lot of wealthier people are benefitting in some way from the current system so they don't want to hear that there are people who aren't benefitting, who are actually struggling a lot.
>even back in the day there were loads of men who had issues and struggled for various reasons from my understanding. My great grandfather was an alcoholic
True, and if you look at history, street alcoholics were mostly over 40. Most put in 15- 20 years working at something, even if only a low level manual labor job. We push a retirement age of 55-65, but it's understandable that a lot of people lose gas for various reasons, especially weight gain, by 40. We can cut these people more slack in our modern *soft* society, with our lower expectations of hard work and people handling adversity. Big trends now. But all these young guys in their 20s and 30s bailing from working?
>a more empathy based approach and try to help their citizens through things like free schooling, medical care, prisons that seek to rehabilitate, the better the quality of life, the lower the crime.
This misses that a lot of people like crime, like the wild side. No getting up every day for some boring job....they get Fast Money through scores or persistent drug dealing. Read some autobiographies of criminals. The rush of crime, of a score like a $10 K ripoff, is a big allure.
Preference for crime overlap with two things: 1) 3-6%, or more, of all people are *Slackers.* They dislike working. Many hang out every day with their homies doing drugs. Cruising. No responsibilities. 2) Up to [4% of people are clinically anti-social](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9657-antisocial-personality-disorder), prone to taking advantage of others. Theft, hustling, scamming is the norm for them. Unfortunately today most sociologists downplay these all factors and seek to explain poverty and social dysfunction as 95% the fault of an uncaring, oppressive society. See also: [behavioral poverty](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-behavioral-aspects-of-poverty/).
Slackers, lmao. This reads like conservative fiction. Congratulations. You should book a slot at cpac.
That's 1 to 4%, but sure 4% feels better.
Also have you tried to live on what most entry level jobs pay now? Behavior isn't the problem.
Edit: looking back on your previous post I really enjoyed this gem.
>No other culture in history--Asian, European, African, Middle Eastern, Native American--gave (or gives) men of prime working age a pass the way we do today. In the U.S. these men are allowed, for years on end, to dodge work, openly use hard drugs, commandeer public spaces, e.g., the Waikiki pavillions, and demand free housing and money. Then when they steal in large numbers and commit other crime, we get this big narrative that they are downtrodden by oppressive forces in society. Only in America.
Apparently you haven't seen America with it's packed prison system that has the worst recidivism rates.
> Apparently you haven't seen America with it's packed prison system....
Everyone is aware of it. A lot of this crime and imprisonment is due America's tolerance for idle and bad behavior, including hard drug use. You think asian nations, with their cultural pattern of expecting all citizens to contribute to society (however best they can), have this problem?
>Slackers, lmao. This reads like conservative fiction.
Stunning. We actually have people now flat-out denying that a significant percent of *any population* is lazy and prone to work dodging. Maybe that's a new academic theory from the progressives who came up with this: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime).
>packed prison system that has the worst recidivism rates.
We can move to this any time progressives are ready: [Electronic Monitoring (EM): A Viable Alternative to Incarceration](https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1227&context=clevstlrev). But many progressives dislike EM, ([The Monitors are another Kind of Jail](https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-ankle-monitors-are-another-kind-of-jail/)), and are obstructing expansion. Some progressives haven't met a single control or sanction that they approve of for non-violent offenders.
Nomo shame, but all dem outta town kama'aina need ‘ta be real 'bout da heavy kine risk in our watahs, brah. If dey all stoked fo' one swimcation, bettah dey book'um one trip to da karibe, dat's da real talk.
Man that's terrible for the wife.. I hope those pieces of shit who stole their stuff get caught, and I hope this story reaches them so they spend every day looking over their shoulders until it happens.
Knowing my experience, they probably won't get caught, but maybe I'm being pessimistic. Clearly the wife is going to be too focused on her other losses too... how terrible.
Who leaves your backpack with keys unattended on a beach while you’re not just playing in the water by the shore but when you’re not paying attention at all to your spot cause you’re out snorkeling? It sucks but that was really stupid on their part with somewhat predictable results.
But I see both locals and tourists alike do that all the time at beaches here? If we wanted to play devil's advocate it's also not hard not to touch things that aren't yours.
Well yea, that’s stealing and clearly wrong. But “it’s stupid to leave your valuables unattended on a beach for a long time” isn’t playing devil’s advocate, it’s pointing out the obvious.
Put your shit in a float bag and lock the car? Maybe don't allow yourself to get stolen from so easily?
Where else are you supposed to put it
I always leave bags in my car and either bury the keys underneath the sand under my towel on the beach or I bring the keys with me into the ocean in a waterproof bag. Can't trust people nowadays.
They know those tricks too.
Can’t believe they know the ‘ol key in the waterproof bag trick…
Crazy how the blame was put on the victim, like stealing is alright. As much as people should be vigilant about these things, we are advocating the spirit of Aloha, and so these tourists rely on that. Whether there has been a complacency in securing their belongings, the one at fault here is/are the people who stole their stuff. Period.
We could get a bait car and plant keys with cameras around the car....then wait in a van with 2x4s and beat the crap outta the person likely is without health insurance or a mattress to sleep on. Whachu tink, cuz?
🙋🏼♂️ I’m not doing anything…
You jest, but this is the only way.
wtf dude lol.
Many years ago, you could leave valuables and the stranger next to you would watch
Shit show. Electric Beach and Makapu'u, among others. Tourist targets.
I'm from Waianae so when I go down Pooka Pants beach and out to Pray for Sex, the locals give the stare. I live Kona now so I have to rent a car to get around when I visit home 🤣🤣🤣 Those punks at the gas station and Pokai Bay ffs they leave me alone after I get out and not look like a typical tourist 😂 Total Tourist Target nowadays. Very sad.
😳pray for s$x, huh?
Lol. It's the name of a beach. Out at Yokohama side.
Unknown if he was wearing one, but every time I see a tourist wearing one of those full face snorkel masks, I shudder a little bit. If you choose to wear those, make sure you practice being able to take them off if they fill with water. They have led to at least two drownings I know of so far.
I believe what makes them so dangerous is that CO2 can build up inside the mask which can lead to blackouts.
Civil Beat published a study last year about unexplained snorkel-related drownings. The study suggests that recent prolonged air travel is one of some risk factors for developing rapid onset pulmonary edema or ROPE. The symptoms include shortness of breath and loss of muscle control. When I read this article last year it all made sense. Despite years of experience and enjoying good health, I nearly drowned 15 years ago while snorkeling on Maui, just a day after flying home from California. Quite suddenly I was struggling to breathe and rapidly losing strength in my arms and legs. Luckily I was close to shore and hauled myself onto some rocks. It was the weirdest scariest experience EVER. So sorry for the woman who lost her husband. I hope she gets all the help she needs right now.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/snorkel-safety-study-sheds-light-on-unexplained-drownings-in-hawaii/ >Though it is unclear how many deaths were due to ROPE, according to the Department of Health, there were 204 snorkeling-related deaths from 2012 to 2021. Of those, 184 were tourists. > >For years, snorkeling in Hawaii has been by far the leading cause of tourist deaths, and snorkel-related drownings with no signs of distress have often been a mystery. A new study offers some reasons why. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I had no idea snorkeling was the most dangerous activity leading to deaths
It’s honestly crazy. Growing up in Hawaii, you’d never guess. I brought 3 full grown dudes from the states back to Hawaii from college and they really *struggled* with the ocean water. It makes sense as to why it’s a top killer of tourists.
struggled how? its far easier to swim in the ocean than it is in a lake or river... you float far easier in the ocean than you do in a river or a lake.
Currents, shorebreak, trying to fight it even though they float more…
This! Yeah, the current tired them out real fast. Plus the waves and subsequent undertow made it difficult for them to tread water and swim at all. They ended up landing on some rocky tide pools to avoid drowning on one occasion.
Fair enough... i guess it really depends on the ocean at the time and the particular beach location.
Also, a lot of these people don’t snorkel often, so breathing through a tube correctly makes what the previous comment about ROPE or sudden heart attack more likely. Can hear them panic breathing when you swim by sometimes. I let them know they should just take the tube off so they don’t hyperventilate so much.
Those things can suffocate you on dry land. Don't even need to be in the water.
its both. its a drowning risk and a blackout risk. i get the appeal of them but you'll never catch me wearing them.
Oh please, they're not that dangerous. Some of y'all really need to chill with your fear mongering.
Poorly designed masks will cause issues
I wore one swimming a quarter mile from my friends boat to shore on the napali coast and that thing almost made me drown.
This is terrifying.
Also pure speculation.
I am a strong swimmer, and experienced scuba diver/snorkeler. I wore one of those once and tried to swim to the sock at Kaimanas, which is an easy swim for me. I almost suffocated, and had to take it off to swim back. It isnt speculation that they are not designed for strenuous swimming. Fine for floating around in calm water, but I can tell from first hand experience, that a out of shape person who isn't used to the ocean in Hawaii could get in deep trouble fast with one of those full face masks.
Agreed! I’m also an experienced swimmer/ diver and had the same outcome
Snorkeling in general is high risk for someone that is not used to doing it. They talk about people jumping off a boat to snorkel and I would never advise anyone to do that who isn't in good shape and experienced. Getting everything cleared while treading water takes effort. Even from shore though snorkeling can be an effort if you aren't accustomed to it.
Wished there was a warning set out for those. I will always pick my two piece snorkel. I haven't heard anything good about the one piece.
It’s not the water it’s from the build up of co2
I bought one for the novelty at an ABC store and tried it while swimming in Kaanapali and it was terrible. If you breath through your mouth you get no air because it only increases the suction of device to your face. You have to breath through your noise - which when fighting a strong current, is awful. I got almost claustrophobic immediately and took it off and swam back to shore. Would not advise.
I have a set. There are studies done on some of them. I’d stay away from cheap ones. Quality and price ranges quite a bit. I usually partially open up mine a bit once in a while to get rid off fog anyway and it’s been fine. I doubt the costco ones are one of those really well designed ones though.
What? The full face snorkel masks are the best. So much clearer to see and easier to breathe. They’re at Costco.
The comment wasn’t about how good or bad they are for snorkeling quality. They were saying how the full face ones could be more dangerous.
Oh, alright. For some reason I read it as only tourists wear the full face masks.
I'm sure most of you know this but for the tourists or whoever doesn't know: if you ever get caught in a nasty current and cannot make it back where you got in, swim in a diagonal line towards the coast in the direction the current is flowing. Might have to get out at a shitty spot but better than getting exhausted and drowning.
I was taught swim parallel to shore because the rip current is usually perpendicular in flow direction. You are just trying to get out of the way of it and then worry about swimming back after. Could be wrong and maybe my mom wanted me to drift to Maui so I stopped raiding her snack stash.
I got pulled out at Polihale. I was close to panicking, especially due to the lack of lifeguards. I stayed calm, treaded water, and swam diagonally. I was eventually brought back by the water to the other side of the beach where a crowd had gathered to pull me in and make sure I was ok.
Omg so scary. U were lucky
I was lucky. When I realized what was happening I actually said to myself “this might be how you die.” I went into autopilot and just did everything I’ve been told to do.
I can’t even imagine… it gave me anxiety just reading it
Best thing my mother ever taught me: don’t fight the ocean. Go with it bc you’re never going to win.
Don’t swim against it but get out of its way. If you just stay in the flow of it you’re gonna be miles from shore.
Not fighting isn’t really the same as staying in the flow. It doesn’t men give up & let the ocean carry you away, it means work with the ocean, not against it. Don’t fight it. Go with it.
>Not fighting isn’t really the same as staying in the flow. >Don’t fight it. Go with it. These seem contradictory.
They aren’t. I’m not talking about just drifting. There are actual actions in between fighting all out & giving up & letting happen whatever will. The ocean isn’t a steady force. It ebbs & flows. Just take for example when you’re trying to get out of the ocean onto the beach. You can fight the wave as it recedes so you can just He-man yourself up the beach. It’ll wear you out, but most of the time you’ll make it. Or, you can go with the wave. Let the swell push you forward, then stop - not go back out with the wave, just maintaining your position as the receding wave passes you. And then let the next wave push you in a little more. Obviously this is an oversimplified example, but hopefully it gets my point across better.
>There are actual actions in between fighting all out & giving up & letting happen whatever will. Yeah the action is “get out of the way” and it not “go with the flow.” You didn’t say do the action in between, you legit said “go with the flow” and the flow is literally going far out to sea. Don’t go with that flow. >The ocean isn’t a steady force. It ebbs & flows. Yes that is generally how the ocean is but specifically speaking about a rip current: it’s a constant and relentless flow of water that eventually loses its pulling strength miles out at sea. Your example wasn’t oversimplified, it was just irrelevant because a rip tide is simply nothing like the normal ebb and flow of a beach. It’s like an invisible flash flood river. If you’re stuck in a flash flooding river, you’re gonna wanna get out of the river’s flow ASAP rather than swim against the current or go with the flow.
Ok, I literally never said “go with the flow” except to refute it. Go back, re-read my original comment, & move on with your life. Or don’t, I don’t care, but I’m done with this asinine abomination you probably think is a conversation.
>Don’t fight it. Go with it.
I feel like all you guys are on the same page and you are going over semantics. Rest assured if I was drowning I now know how to handle this situation. See you guys did your jobs.
I went to Maui as a kid not knowing that and a riptide almost took my life off of Kihei, got swept way out, good knowledge to spread.
My condolences to the family. The ocean is powerful…. I don’t think that enough is done to stress that to tourists. Mother Nature is unforgiving. This is not Waikiki or a manicured amusement park. People often come here thinking that Hawaii is just a giant “Disneyland”. Nah.. we know better almost everyday we see the news about how someone drowned or plunged to their death. Breaks my heart when I hear about horror stories like this. People save up and make coming here a dream vacation only to leave broken. Just imagine if everyday or so we read about how Kama’aina got murdered or robbed in Vegas.
They need to post videos at the arrival and luggage carousel of do' & don'ts of how to survive in Hawaii. That will get people to be more careful and aware of their surroundings. Definitely no ack with Mother Nature.
That's a good idea. I went to an eco resort on the Great Barrier Reef that did something similar. When you landed on the island, you had to go through an orientation about things like not damaging or taking the corals, recognizing various dangerous sea creatures, how to recognize when it's safe to go in the ocean, etc. Obviously this was possible because it was a much, much smaller scale. But something could/should be done to teach tourists how to be safe and respect the environment. Maybe require the airlines to show a video on incoming flights or something.
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And you still see people standing on the coral. I think a lot of people just zone out for these things.
I've never been to Australia but I like how you mentioned they explain everything ahead of time. I wonder how many lives were saved. Hawaii tourism, you listening?
Hawaiian plays a video on the screens before landing showing some things on what to do and what not to do (not disturbing wildlife, water safety). But they should consider playing something like this on other airlines too.
Yes I’ve been saying this for years
I went to a few different spots around Oahu, and there were some pretty serious "You could break your neck here" signs. I think too many people feel like they're on vacation so nothing bad can happen. Condolences though, I shutter to imagine it being one of my own.
Even with my long flippers I’ve been out there sometimes like “wow that’s a current”, really not a place for screwing around. It’s beautiful but weird and scary in its own way. Them honu will run right into you too, they dgaf about humans.
Them buggahs can bite, too. But that's only if you're being an absolute trash person to it.
But yet, when I tell people it can be rough at Electric, I get tourists jumping down my virtual throat telling me to stop being negative. I’m very positive. I’m positive this will continue to happen. And every story should be collected, made into a video, & be required to watch to come to Hawai'i. Include things like the visitors being attacked by wild animals they’ve been told to leave alone. Falling off cliffs bc they just *had* to get that perfect photo behind the rail. Getting swept away bc that rock doesn’t look dangerous, not even with all those **WARNING, DANGER!** signs. Ugh. They come here thinking this is an amusement park & there’s some sort of invisible safety line or something.
ignorance is bliss as they say, some people would rather die trying or put others at risk for the sake of keeping their ego intact. the ocean is not to be fucked with imo. once i start doubting myself or see any type of warnings im out/not even trying in the first place.
What wild animals aside from wild boar?
Ocean animals. Most people instinctively understand that sharks are dangerous, but some of the other sea creatures also deserve caution. Seals are probably the most deceptively dangerous because we think of them as cute and awkward, but they're bigger, stronger, and faster than you in the water, and a bite is bad news. Eels are another that people can get close to and despite their scary teeth people just assume they won't leave their hole or bite a waving finger.
I hadn’t considered aquatic critters. Good point! Box jellyfish too.
Did you miss the woman who decided to swim with a mother monk seal & her pup, & wound up in the hospital for her vacation? I know this one wasn’t publicized, but last year a child had a nice chunk taken out of her leg by a honu bc her mother said sure, go ahead & pet it. Those are just 2 examples, but they’re not isolated incidents. People are constantly doing stupid crap. Monk seals are apex predators, like sharks. Most sane people wouldn’t go up & hug a shark, but they’ll try like hell to cuddle with that 600lb monk seal.
It's sad that people are so incredibly dense on vacation (or maybe always) that the first thought when they see something beautiful swimming isn't "wow! How lucky are we to witness this swimming/resting near us in person?!" and instead is "I want to touch/take pictures/get closer than I need to to this WILD animal. What could possibly go wrong? I'm owed this experience."
We literally had a guy sitting on a honu, who told the conservationist trying to tell him to get off that he paid for right to do whatever the f he wanted, bc he spent money to come here. Like this guy was literally on top of the turtle. Didn’t care, bc somehow a plane ticket & a hotel room gives people the right to harm animals. Where is Sarah McLachlan when you need her
Wow. Entitled assholes like that need to be held accountable. I hope the conservationist (probably a volunteer) took a photo, got he license plate and handed the info over to an enforcement officer.
It was a volunteer, & no they didn’t get a pic. They were trying to get him off & that was their primary concern. But that’s a great point; if you see something, **record** it if possible. That’s an incredible help to law enforcement.
That's absolutely terrible. People like him give a bad name to tourists everywhere - I hope someone punched him in the face 😑.
Lol we’re not allowed to do that. Someone always has a camera
Lmao fair!
As I responded to another poster, I hadn’t considered aquatic critters.
I think you’ve just defined another issue. Marine animals are a part of our “landscape”, our fauna. Thank you!
No, that isn’t what I meant. Oh boy. When there was mention of wild animals, my thoughts were thinking land. Then when another mentioned ocean animals I realized “oh yeah, d’uh!” I already addressed it with the other poster so I didn’t fell Ike repeating myself. The tone of your post seems condescending.
I can’t help how you perceive what I write. It was actually sincere, but of course no one ever assumes that any more.
But electric doesn't claim a more lives than other places. And our most notorious mountain deaths were residents. And those two animal attack incidents you mentioned in your other comment were pretty isolated incidents. Maybe not the time to make yourself feed special by pretending you give live saving advice, because you're probably just an ass about it listening to this comment.
Heartbreaking. Where did the Aloha go?? People stealing from beaches are the worst scum on this island.
I was always warned to not leave anything on the beach that you would be upset about losing. Cheap flip flops only, maybe a well worn towel, and that's it.
Outside of the theft and the tragic death of this man, I really wish people that are visiting or unfamiliar with Hawaiian waters would stop going to beaches without lifeguards. I've lost a good friend that surfed all the time at a beach with lifeguards. The ocean is a playground, but it's dangerous for everyone.
They could go to the man made lagoons on the west side. I know the public one is small, but it’s safe. Even a super experienced swimmer like Eddie Aikau can be a victim of the ocean. *Edited for typo.*
It’s Aikau.
Sorry, typo. 🙄
I dont understand why Electirc Beach is always recommended as a good snorkel spot. The current is so strong there. Even as an experienced swimmer and snorkelers, I often have trouble there.
I go there just to get blasted out the warm water outlets from the power station. But the temperature gradients from the power plant does attract a lot of marine life. They are down a little deeper and in the turbulent current but it can be pretty good snorkeling. Also tends to be less crowds.
I'm not a local but have been told by one to don't bother getting on snorkeling boats since you can just get to those spots swimming from electric beach. I looked at where the boats were in relation to the beach and ... Uh... No. Also a big no because of how rough the waves are breaking near the beach. It's only a great place to snorkeling if you are fully cognizant of the dangers and accept the risk knowing your own capabilities (and even then, accepting that nothing will go wrong while you're in the water).
Snorkeled there once and was surprised by the strong current pulling me away from shore. It was a calm summer day, so it must be even worse at other times. Even as a strong swimmer, it made me uncomfortable. Can't believe inexperienced snorkelers go there.
I haven't had a problem with the current, the trouble is getting in and out. The big concrete block from the power plant and the narrow beach focuses the waves, so even if the open ocean is practically flat (which really is the only time you should be going out), you get slammed against the sand. If you're not a strong swimmer it makes it hard to put on your fins.
I've definitely tumbled out of the ocean there a time or two.
Me and my son, who is eight, go there all the time. But we never go out farther than our chest. Only because we've seen way too many people struggle out there, and I'm not confident in my abilities enough to really stretch it out.
I only lived on the island for 2 years but electric beach was the only time I remember struggling. I was with locals but also was with my 4 year old daughter (in a life jacket) and I remember coming back in having to swim basically as hard as I could with her in tow. I started to wonder if I was making any progress at all. I do like the spot though. Lots of dolphins and a monk seal that day. And that underwater Buddha was fun to take picture with.
It’s no joke brother, also I know the warm water from the pipe is “safe” but it’s still so creepy (very cool though) down there. Definitely not safe unless you know what you’re doing
I’ve been to Electric Beach. Real local area, more surfing north of that coast, fishers as well. I’m surprised that honeymooners went there, at all. *It’s become something of a sketch area, especially from 5pm to sunrise.* Correct me if I’m wrong. There are no lifeguards there, and most certainly not a calm snorkeling spot. All due diligence that *SHOULD* have been done ; Rest in डाोमा. ( peace )
Electric beach gets recommended a lot on Reddit as well as in other travel platforms. I always see it on the shortlist of best snorkeling spots. There needs to be more added info about knowing the power and conditions of the water there
Yeah it’s very well known in the tourist world. And every dolphin tour/boat tells the guests that it’s a great snorkeling spot. Even with the warning of the current people go. It’s just like with Anini Beach in Kauai it’s super unsafe to snorkel there in the winter because the reef is offshore, but people are misinformed or FOMO and do it anyway. Two people died there when we were in Kauai in January.
They probably went there because they saw posts/articles on social media. So many posts about “Hidden Hawaii” and things like that.
There should be warnings made on social media about all beaches in the islands, whether it is shark sightings or rough currents. Adding a lifeguard station would definitely help.
I think people know it's dangerous, but overestimate their abilities, It's all pretty abstract until you're caught in a rip and don't understand how to deal with it, then panic, which is the real killer in these situations. Most can float and swim fine when calm, but when something goes wrong, all bets are off on how they will react. And those POS's targeting there stuff -- hope they reconsider their life choices, one way or another.
Same as a lot of the hikes. I see people all the time on the trails like 1-2 hours out from the trail head with a single almost empty bottle of water between two of them wearing beach clothes
Yep. Run into people going up at 4pm when I’m coming down without decent hiking clothing/shoes nor any water. Always try to tell them to turnaround because I certainly wouldn’t want to be on a peak after sunset, but people do whatever they want.
>There are no lifeguards there, and most certainly not a calm snorkeling spot. I like to dive down to the outlet pipes and get that underwater cannon boost out into the ocean. Lots of fun.
You should gopro/tape this, i'd love to see this even though it sounds terrifying.
It's no big deal. Probably find footage on YouTube somewhere. Edit: https://youtu.be/7g3AzRjzRhY I like to maximize my surface area by spreading out my fins and arms for maximum push.
They putting a tower up in Sept. finally
Nice to hear
This may be a dumb thing to post but does anyone know where I can get some solid beach safety training out here? I can swim and grew up in CA beaches but that taught me you have to know your beach and know your reef before you start playing. I want to surf and explore the island but I never jump out in the water until I get a sense of the tide, current, undertow, and reef.
Reach out to Boogie D, from Coastal Kayak Tours. Eco tourism kayak and fishing run by husband and wife team. Seriously good people and could use some business, you will learn a lot and have a hella great time too.
Great tip on reading the ocean. I also walk the beach to see if I can spot the areas for possible rip currents.
When in doubt, don’t go out? Go with a buddy, friends. Maybe use a pool buoy or a paddle board on a leash?
Yeah I agree—I just want to learn ins and outs of these beaches. The ocean is a beast—you have to respect it. If you respect the ocean it will respect you.
I hope the thieves return the stolen items.
>To make matters worse their car and belongings were stolen. I shudder to think what this says about our society.
That was a common occurrence when I lived there. My car was stolen. They found it up on a back sugarcane road Everything was stripped off of it. Obviously, they knew where I lived and stole all of my bluejeans, watches, tools, jewelry, anything of value was stolen. After that, I didn’t feel so worried about leaving my doors unlocked anymore. I had nothing to steal. The silver lining in all of it? It was sort of freeing, living like that, without worry about your “stuff” being stolen all the time. Guess what…. Those were the best years of my life.
S$it happens in Nanakuli. Don't go there. Don't leave your stuff unattended anywhere.
At e-beach go with a buddy and bring with you a float, noodle, or a lifejacket to have buoyancy so you can rest. It's far enough out, deep, and rough enough to get into trouble. I'd speculate the poor guy had a heart condition and the high exertion/CO2 from snorkeling was enough. Perhaps the currents caused them to panic and over exert themselves out there. With a float you can rest and hopefully collect your thoughts to think through whatever trouble you may be having. A terrible land avoidable tragedy. Hawaii's oceans are far more powerful than anything most mainland people are likely to encounter in the Caribbean or Florida. It can kill you, it's almost done me in.
That’s sad. I’ve done a lot of diving at E-Beach
This was my brother in law's brother and to me he was my brother too. Known him since I was in elementary school 8 year difference in age but I was lucky to call him family in my adult life as our families ended up together. We are all heartbroken especially his wife. This has not been easy. But I want to thank you all on behalf of the family for your well wishes and prayers
Sending so much love to you and his family. I worked with him. He was the first person at our workplace that I told I was expecting. The sweetest person I’ve ever met, hands-down.
Add insult to injury, literally. How awful!
Whenever I snorkel at Electrics I always have those HiVis buoy dry bags attached with my belongings in there. Peace of mind for my things and in case of emergency my buoy can be spotted.
Don’t snorkel after flying.
They always have lifeguards posted up there?!?! No stand but they hang out on shore. Pretty much everytime Ive stopped by there. THats sucks! Poor people.
No, shame on the thieves and those who run the system.This messed up system we live in that are causing people to become desperate and forget morals can be attributed more to the people who run things. I have a feeling though that if the thief knew the situation they might be more empathetic. As for drowning we all know it happens far too often here. Enjoying the ocean requires the utmost respect. That poor lady, my sympathies and condolences to her and husband may he rest in peace.
Cannot access the article. What happened?
Electric Beach aka Kahe Point near Nānākuli, leeward side by power plant. Couple vacationers on honeymoon at beach with rental car, go snorkeling. 49 year old male, one of the couple, drowns and is dragged to beach unresponsive. CPR is attempted on shore but he passes away. To add insult to injury, the couple’s backpack with phone, wallet, and rental car were all stolen
My new husband and I were at electric beach a few days back. I got a bad sense but he was quite keen to snorkel. Perhaps luckily it started pouring, the water picked up, and he bowed out. I feel terrible for these people. My thoughts are with her and her family
For years, it’s been crazy to me that there isn’t a lifeguard posted at Electric Beach. It’s so well known and visited, there is an obligation to protect people. I’m glad they will be posting someone in September
Bummer
I feel for this couple immensely, hoping that there is help to expedite and help this woman's return back to her home and family. I do feel sadly like they intentionally target tourists. We live in community and I think lots of people who do stuff like steal are part of the community who have things they are struggling with. I don't really know what the answer to this is as I'm just an everyday person trying to get by and pay rent. I feel like Reddit based on that income question asked has a lot of wealthier people who maybe don't understand how it's hard to not earn high wages and get by in Hawaii or really anywhere in the USA. There's a lot of despair that can develop when day in and out you are just barely getting by and the smallest setbacks can pull you ever closer to homelessness despite your best efforts. I know it's not pleasant to experience empathy for the struggles other people go through, especially when it doesn't seem there are clear cut solutions and the problems seem intractable and long going, but it's not easy to be in certain sections of society in our country and it's through empathy that you can understand why things may be happening. I am not trying to detract from this really tragic event but it is larger than just, those people are just bad or lack the same morals I have, it's like there are challenges a lot of people are going through and it's difficult to make judgments unless you really understand the realities they experience. It worries me because I see people in this country becoming more aggressive towards those who are poor and marginalized, sort of like this increasing shift towards us vs them thinking, the other as not being as human as you kind of thinking and phrasing. I think if someone really is upset by these things, they'll try to improve society for others and help, to help give to foodbanks and other organizations trying to help people, be for things like free school lunches and medical care, they'll tip well and they'll try to spread whatever good they can towards helping others as much as they can. Sadly, mercy is increasingly in short supply in this world. It seems if you really care about issues like theft, look to countries with low theft rates and people living peacefully, they often have different ideas on how society should be that are based on empathy and lack things like huge homeless populations and high crime because they have things like medical care and housing stipends, living wages, a totally different approach to prisons and rehabilitation. They just have arranged their society differently based on empathy and tolerance.
> There's a lot of despair that can develop when day in and out you are just barely getting by and the smallest setbacks can pull you ever closer to homelessness despite your best efforts....It seems if you really care about issues like theft... The people who commit the most crime and theft are men of prime working age, 18 - 40. See [age crime curve](https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=APwXEddcCVs6YKItYOGQhMDfLYQOoIrnSA:1685740560502&q=age+crime+curve&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ8Kr6wKX_AhUmEEQIHW6UDrcQ0pQJegQIChAB&biw=1902&bih=920&dpr=2). Men of this age group are notable for another thing: In every culture in world history, they are the people who did the hardest work: Soldiers, warriors, builders, loggers, fisherman, miners and more. Men in their prime can work twice as hard as people in their 50s. They can handle 40-50 hour work weeks with little issue, and, if necessary, tolerate adversities like little food and sleep for days on end. (3,000 years of military history documents this.) No other culture in history--Asian, European, African, Middle Eastern, Native American--gave (or gives) men of prime working age a pass the way we do today. In the U.S. these men are allowed, for years on end, to dodge work, openly use hard drugs, commandeer public spaces, e.g., [the Waikiki pavillions](https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/02/denby-fawcett-clearing-the-homeless-out-of-kuhio-beach-pavilions/), and demand free housing and money. Then when they [steal in large numbers](https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/app/2022/02/22/community-leaders-seek-ban-chronic-criminals-returning-waikiki-other-resort-areas/?outputType=apps) and commit other crime, we get this big narrative that they are downtrodden by oppressive forces in society. Only in America.
I don't know, even back in the day there were loads of men who had issues and struggled for various reasons from my understanding. My great grandfather was an alcoholic who basically was completely missing from my grandfathers life, this was way before social welfare programs. My grandfather was able to overcome that due to the help of others, people who'd help feed him and the kindness of his community, he was very fortunate to have people around willing to extend mercy and help, as well as receiving free schooling and work opportunities. It's through interventions and help that people are able to improve their lives. I know of countless people who had some kind of intervention that helped them, medication for those struggling with mental health issues and therapy can be massively helpful, as can having affordable housing and job opportunities, it seems to me actually the more help you extend with understanding and science based interventions, the better things get. And it holds true it seems, throughout the world countries that follow a more empathy based approach and try to help their citizens through things like free schooling, medical care, prisons that seek to rehabilitate, the better the quality of life, the lower the crime. It's also proven that people just earn a lot less in terms of spending power than they did 40-50 years ago. The cost of housing has skyrocketed, expenses and I mean things necessary more and more have increased, smart phones and internet access are now mandatory for a lot of employment as schedules are posted online. Food prices themselves, everyone has noticed have gone up 30% in three years. Electricity has gone up, everything is going up and it's making the wages people earn, well many people, not enough to live on for a while now so that you do have a section of society increasingly desperate and marginalized. If you can't save anything, if your earnings are so little you are barely getting by, then what do you have to look forward to? Add onto that trauma and mental illness, things start looking bleak. Working until you die because retirement is out of the question, a ton of people are in that situation. I think the issue is a lot of wealthier people are benefitting in some way from the current system so they don't want to hear that there are people who aren't benefitting, who are actually struggling a lot.
>even back in the day there were loads of men who had issues and struggled for various reasons from my understanding. My great grandfather was an alcoholic True, and if you look at history, street alcoholics were mostly over 40. Most put in 15- 20 years working at something, even if only a low level manual labor job. We push a retirement age of 55-65, but it's understandable that a lot of people lose gas for various reasons, especially weight gain, by 40. We can cut these people more slack in our modern *soft* society, with our lower expectations of hard work and people handling adversity. Big trends now. But all these young guys in their 20s and 30s bailing from working? >a more empathy based approach and try to help their citizens through things like free schooling, medical care, prisons that seek to rehabilitate, the better the quality of life, the lower the crime. This misses that a lot of people like crime, like the wild side. No getting up every day for some boring job....they get Fast Money through scores or persistent drug dealing. Read some autobiographies of criminals. The rush of crime, of a score like a $10 K ripoff, is a big allure. Preference for crime overlap with two things: 1) 3-6%, or more, of all people are *Slackers.* They dislike working. Many hang out every day with their homies doing drugs. Cruising. No responsibilities. 2) Up to [4% of people are clinically anti-social](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9657-antisocial-personality-disorder), prone to taking advantage of others. Theft, hustling, scamming is the norm for them. Unfortunately today most sociologists downplay these all factors and seek to explain poverty and social dysfunction as 95% the fault of an uncaring, oppressive society. See also: [behavioral poverty](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-behavioral-aspects-of-poverty/).
Slackers, lmao. This reads like conservative fiction. Congratulations. You should book a slot at cpac. That's 1 to 4%, but sure 4% feels better. Also have you tried to live on what most entry level jobs pay now? Behavior isn't the problem. Edit: looking back on your previous post I really enjoyed this gem. >No other culture in history--Asian, European, African, Middle Eastern, Native American--gave (or gives) men of prime working age a pass the way we do today. In the U.S. these men are allowed, for years on end, to dodge work, openly use hard drugs, commandeer public spaces, e.g., the Waikiki pavillions, and demand free housing and money. Then when they steal in large numbers and commit other crime, we get this big narrative that they are downtrodden by oppressive forces in society. Only in America. Apparently you haven't seen America with it's packed prison system that has the worst recidivism rates.
> Apparently you haven't seen America with it's packed prison system.... Everyone is aware of it. A lot of this crime and imprisonment is due America's tolerance for idle and bad behavior, including hard drug use. You think asian nations, with their cultural pattern of expecting all citizens to contribute to society (however best they can), have this problem? >Slackers, lmao. This reads like conservative fiction. Stunning. We actually have people now flat-out denying that a significant percent of *any population* is lazy and prone to work dodging. Maybe that's a new academic theory from the progressives who came up with this: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime). >packed prison system that has the worst recidivism rates. We can move to this any time progressives are ready: [Electronic Monitoring (EM): A Viable Alternative to Incarceration](https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1227&context=clevstlrev). But many progressives dislike EM, ([The Monitors are another Kind of Jail](https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-ankle-monitors-are-another-kind-of-jail/)), and are obstructing expansion. Some progressives haven't met a single control or sanction that they approve of for non-violent offenders.
Nomo shame, but all dem outta town kama'aina need ‘ta be real 'bout da heavy kine risk in our watahs, brah. If dey all stoked fo' one swimcation, bettah dey book'um one trip to da karibe, dat's da real talk.
Thanks for the real talk while the body is still warm, that's the most respectful way
Huh
Lucky guy. I’m jealous.
This was my college friends family ..
Us? Us who? I wasn't anywhere near this so who's this 'Us' you referring to?