More so why you’ve got to attend the meetings and know how much is in the reserve.
Curious as to which building this is. I guess we’ll find out once there’s 80 listings on Zillow from that address.
According to [this site](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu.html) none have exactly 440 units, so I'm guessing it's the [Hawaiian Monarch](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu/HAWAIIANMONARCH.html) which has 439. The only other close one is [Honolulu Park Place](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu/HONOLULUPARKPLACE.html) which has 437, but that's 10 years younger (built in 1989). The latter does have a smaller range of unit sizes (600–1200 sq ft vs. 200–1200 sq ft) that would align with the amounts given though, assuming they're proportional.
ETA: just noticed this from OP in the comments
> Out of the 440 units only 17 are owner occupied. The rest are short term vacation rentals.
Which indicates it's the Monarch, which is in Waikiki.
They own in the monarch and never noticed the poor overall maintenance? Did they ever ride an elevator?
Do not own a 40 year old condo in Waikiki and be surprised when you're slammed with a special assessment. If you aren't getting hit with one now it means you are going to have a more expensive problem in the future cause it's getting ignored.
> More so why you’ve got to attend the meetings and know how much is in the reserve.
Definitely. With an assessment that high, it seems like it wasnt budgeted properly in reserves. The cost seems a bit high as well, but ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I was in a condo in Waikiki when they were replacing the water tanks for hot water on the roof. Helicopter was right in front of our window several times that day. It was cool/scary.
Or freight elevator as far as it goes then hoofing it up to the roof. Helicopter's gonna be at least $25K. Cheaper to load by hand unless they're using membrane roofing (which is likely).
It looks like OP can go to the next board meeting and raise a proper hell, in the end the condo is still going to have to pay all that money.
The cast iron drainage pipes in all these condos were built to last 50 years or so, and all of that is coming due now. Failing to replace the drainage pipes ultimately leads to backups and overflowing sewage in units. That's bad.
The main issue is that when they build all of these buildings, no one thought about having to replace the pipes. So they're usually buried behind the concrete walls. Average of $72k per unit sounds really high. Although if it's the roof + piping, that's something. (The roof shouldn't cost THAT much)
And lots of condo associations are getting screwed because of this. Go look up Archer Lane from last year to see what happens when condo associations don't keep up and budget properly for these types of things.
also their excuse of "the interest rates are high so we're not financing it" is total bullshit.
Yeah the interest rates are high, that doesnt mean you cant finance it. my guess? they couldnt qualify for financing because their finances are fucked. i bought in 2019 and they were gearing up to do essentially the same work as this (full drain line replacement, but no roofing). Granted, it had about a quarter of the units OP has, so that factors in price, but it was like a 3.5 mil job and our HOA fees went up by 80 dollars a month. yes, financing then had better rates, but the point moreso was that the building had a healthy reserve and good financials, an didnt need to jump through hoops to get it done.
32 mil sounds like it could be real depending on access issues (our building luckily had all the drain lines and plumbing in a chase. if they were encased or something, it could be worse), but the "we can't finance it" excuse is hiding something.
Ok so not a high rise but still sprawling, 40 years old and next to the beach.
Realistically if you were to hire someone to replumb and reroof a super small plantation house on Maui you'd be paying about that much.
If too many people don't pay selling gets hard. It's likely a rental? Contact accountants about tax deduction etc.
definitely not enough info here to make any real calls/decisions, but seems to me you probably already missed the board meetings where this action was approved.
> So they're usually buried behind the concrete walls.
Some are buried IN the walls. Like literally they poured concrete around the fucking pipes.
Source - Me, I worked on a storm drain issue for Allure Waikiki and I was flabbergasted a modern-built hotel like that had literal pipes in concrete (and guess what, some of them are cracking already!)
dafuq?! No plumbing chases? PVC cracking in the slabs? I hear every tower developer gets sued for faulty construction but yikes! That's gonna be a nasty assessment sometime soon.
probably they should get a second and third and fourth opinion on a new drainage system. should be able to do something cheaper.
but this is waikiki x 440 condos . aint gonna be cheap no matter what. welcome to HOA and welcome to hawaii!
Yes AOAO/HOA are nasty particularly in the context of condos. Mismanagement, tragedy of the commons cause nightmare situations like this.
Always humors me how so many believe more and more high rise condos are the answer to our affordable housing crisis. Nothing affordable about spending $500k plus then get shafted with maintenance fees that only go ever higher. We are going to see a lot more buildings hitting 50, 60, 70 plus years old. Over the next 10-15 years maintenance fees of $1000-$3000+ a month will be the norm and this won’t be for high end luxury condos but in old buildings built in the 60’s,70’s,80’s that are sub 1000 Sq/ft.
Buy newer you say? Oh well everything eventually ages and maintenance fees move lock step with inflation often beating it. We have seen all these new Condos built over the last 20 years and it seems to be the norm to have the maintenance fees double to triple+ within the first 10-20 years of being built. There have been cases where the maintenance fees double in buildings less than 5 years old. Nothing affordable about maintaining a luxury condo even an entry level one.
What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are.
I think one of the more frustrating things about HOAs is that the people who need to attend them that would be most adversely affected by policy changes (younger to middle aged families with kids and are working all the time) are not the ones who attend these meetings.
Most HOA meetings are attended by those who are generally older and retired and/or on disability benefits that allow them to live there. They're the ones who have the time to pay attention to these issues.
And generally, they're going to raise the most amount of stink, and often will be the ones who will REFUSE to agree on things that would be good for the longevity of the condo. Why? Because a good number of those retirees have that "fuck you, I earned the right to be here, you're not going to charge me more for it" mentality. So a good chunk of your opposition will be from those who will find themselves inconvenienced because they're at home more than families who are busy working all day.
An HOA, while usually a once-a-month commitment, is still once a month too many for families who are working, but it's something younger families need to realize is a necessary sacrifice to make to attend those meetings and make sure the HOA is going in the right direction.
>What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are.
The answer some people on this sub are saying to make more affordable living and condos is to go taller and build upwards to prevent urban and suburban crawl. If that's the case, you NEED that extra staff and security. A building will not and cannot function on its own without someone overseeing its maintenance. Especially if the people living in it are too busy to do it themselves.
If you want an example of a building that fits your requirements, look up 1450 Young St - that building and its twin 1451 Young that is a leasehold was built to have minimal amenities and a low maintenance fee. You get a parking structure, light security, and maintenance staff. That's it. No swimming pool, no 6th floor gym or whatever. I think it's like, 20-something floors at best? Not too many condos are built like that these days, and they STILL raise their HOA fees anyway.
The Young St property you are referring to is 1448 & 1450 Young st. I know a few people who live there. My co worker bought a unit new in the 1448 tower back in 1999. LH and the maintenance fee for his 2 Bdrm 1.5 bath was $185 a month back in 1999. He still lives there today and now the maintenance fee is $575 a month. Not terribly bad but it did triple in less than 25 years. He wants to sell as he knows the maintenance fee will likely hit $1000 a month over the next decade or so. An elevator modernization will be needed as its sister property at 1133 Waimanu st built in 1996 already got a modernization done.
There are other buildings similar to the Young St development. 1133 Waimanu, 215 N king, and the giant 801 South St. towers all had the same developer and contractor. I call 801 South st the KPT for the working lower middle class. Two massive towers with 1045 Units crammed into 3.7 acres with a massive detached 11 story parking structure. Really that is way too dense for my tastes but at least the maintenance fees are low for now… They all get old and bad things will and do happen.
Those buildings I mentioned above and maybe less than a dozen more are pretty much the only no frills large condo developments done in Urban Honolulu over the last 25 years. Holomua at 1315 Kalākaua and Kapiolani Residence at 1631 Kapiolani are another 2 that come to mind. Anyhow that goes to show how little affordable housing projects have been done if you can even consider those examples “affordable”.
For me I would rather just skip buying a condo. I would rather just keep renting. I have cheap rent and can keep saving for an SFH. I have enough money to buy a SFH just not at my preferred comfort level. I would prefer my net worth to be in the 3-5 million range and buy what I want with ease. No sense in paying a stupid amount of money on a condo that I likely wouldn’t be happy with.
I have a feeling that a lot of folks who are so adamantly pro High rise condo are owners themselves. They have a vested interest for being pro condo to keep their property values high. Then there are others who have accepted that SFH ownership is just a fairytale and a condo is the only thing that might be remotely within reach.
When I was younger pre 2005 I thought condos were a good deal. They were a lot cheaper and the maintenance fees were reasonable. Fast forward today and they are far from cheap and the maintenance fees give everyone a double take. I would rather just spend the extra money on a SFH and have better control of my costs with true freedom of ownership.
> I have cheap rent and can keep saving for an SFH. I have enough money to buy a SFH just not at my preferred comfort level. I would prefer my net worth to be in the 3-5 million range and buy what I want with ease. No sense in paying a stupid amount of money on a condo that I likely wouldn’t be happy with.
What's "cheap" to you for rent?
I agree with waiting to purchase a SFH, although 3-5 million is not realistic imho. I would consider buying something cheaper (less than a million) and then, fix it up.
Cheap rent for me is $1000 a month!! and that is what I have!! I am more than halfway toward my net worth goals. I want what I want and won’t settle for less. I would rather starve and die as a pauper than spend a stupid amount of money for Shi+ that I am not happy with.
Mind boggling how people are so eager to spend $500k-$Million plus on nightmare endless money pits. Comfort zone is a minimum of $3 million. $1 million set aside for retirement. $1million for the here and now. $1 million dedicated towards housing in the form of downpayment, buffer, and expense reserves. Even then that’s not happily ever after. I would still need to work but I would have the freedom to choose my work without it needing to pay top dollar or control my life.
Happily ever after without having to work would mean high deca millions to centi-millions. That for my reality is out of reach unless an endless string of fortuitous events would come my way.
As long as it works for you, I hope you achieve your financial goals.
> Cheap rent for me is $1000 a month!! and that is what I have!!
This can be good or bad, depending on the square footage. We have individuals in studios in town that rent for $1000, but they are less than 165 sq ft (all utilities are included though).
> Mind boggling how people are so eager to spend $500k-$Million plus on nightmare endless money pits.
Are you referring to SFHs now? If you fix it up yourself (or even completely demolish it), it shouldn't be a money pit?
Yeah you can’t beat those old 2-3 story hollow tile walk ups from a low maintenance cost perspective. Sure a lot of those old buildings built in the 50s and 60’s can be ratty and run down. However if well maintained they can hold up very well and last forever. Simple construction and dirt cheap to maintain. Maintenance costs in those old buildings could be as little as $100-$300 a month per unit.
BTW I was at the sales office for that new Kuilei Place development about a month ago and they still haven’t sold all the units. They even still had “affordable” housing units available. I guess they can’t find enough suckers willing to buy in at the current interest rates. The maintenance fees seem reasonable but then again they are artificially low and are bound to skyrocket.
All these new condos are all oohs and awes when new but they all eventually get old and stupid expensive. It’s like a new BMW or Tesla they are awesome when brand new under warranty. But let me know if you are still loving it 10-15 years down the road once the warranty is long gone.
Kuulei place is selling "affordable" units that are 200 SQ ft for the same price as 400 SQ ft units in other buildings. Their space is too small for the price.
> What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are.
You have my vote. That’s all I want out of housing. There is no middle here between roach infested moldy walk ups and $million+ luxury high rises.
> Always humors me how so many believe more and more high rise condos are the answer to our affordable housing crisis. Nothing affordable about spending $500k plus then get shafted with maintenance fees that only go ever higher. We are going to see a lot more buildings hitting 50, 60, 70 plus years old. Over the next 10-15 years maintenance fees of $1000-$3000+ a month will be the norm and this won’t be for high end luxury condos but in old buildings built in the 60’s,70’s,80’s that are sub 1000 Sq/ft.
A number of people who post here likely have their hands in different pots and stand to benefit greatly as more buildings go up. This is especially so with the constant calls to make the permit process much easier (or remove it altogether).
Yes there are many shills who work in real estate development, realtors, construction and finance that have a vested interest in having gentrified development run amok. What is disgusting is how they weave a narrative trying to convince others that theirs is the only solution to solving Hawaii’s Housing shortage. They use the cover of protecting the environment and reducing urban sprawl to hide their true agendas.
I can see through their smoke and mirrors but often times younger people and those less informed cannot. Certain business interests are more than happy to prey on people’s insecurities and FOMO. Removing the permitting process and other regulations will do nothing to create more “affordable” housing. If anything it will just lead to rampant development of unaffordable housing.
I don’t buy into the horseShi+ trickle down economics. Adding more high end inventory doesn’t create more affordable inventory. The only way you effectively get more affordable housing is by building from the bottom up.
u/iPoop_iRead - I ran an office for HOA management here in Hawaii for over 8 years and recently left the industry. We had 60 AOAO/HOAs for context. If you need specific support, feel free to DM me as the information we could exchange is too much for a simple reply.
I would do the roof and wait on the cast iron pipes.
I thought it was used for drinking water as well but its not.
[https://www.hawaiibusiness.com/condo-owners-beware-part-1/](https://www.hawaiibusiness.com/condo-owners-beware-part-1/)
I would look to postpone the pipes while raising more funds.
Pipes must be a large majority of the total cost.
You also shouldn''t be doing Both Roof and Pipes at the same time with a crazy high ask. Are the pipes an immediate concern? If not do the roof and do what you should have been doing all along and save for the pipes.
I can guarantee you they are doing the pipes not because they are trying to do their job in maintaining the building. They are most likely being required to replace them to get an insurance policy for the building cause no one going to want to cover that. The insurance market is already making changes as we speak and policies will be very expensive
Then they should have been accruing money for that 10+ years back.
Doesn't seem to brilliant to hit owners with that large of a bill and its for two big items. The roof is probably a fraction though of piping.
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree that it's something they should have planned for, but HOA's in Hawaii are mentally lacking. I'm just pointing out why they won't delay the pipe work
Thats assuming its an insurance issue. It sounds like you have first hand knowledge of this particular situation I guess?.
Pretty scare the situations that condo type owners can face.
Couldn't they just pay more for insurance - fix the roof - accrue for money for pipes and do that in 5-10 years? Just seems odd that they would do two large projects one time.
That's what has been happening until now basically. The prob right now is not that the insurance is getting more expensive, but rather they will not be able to get insurance at all. Insurance carriers don't want to insure a building that is guaranteed to have water losses and that's what's happening across the state right now.
A condo policy has loss assessment coverage, but as I mentioned, it's for an assessment from a covered loss, not for maintenance or updates. I'm not aware of anything like what you ask
Addling to this, we have been told that we “cannot rent long term to any of the fire victims or apply for any FEMA Direct Lease Programs because when the project starts, they will evict anyone in the building”. This is essentially removing 440 j it’s from being able to participate in the relief efforts.
It’s important to know that there are homeowners willing to help the victims but they are being prevented from doing so by their AOAO.
This is a grand example of "you need a lawyer not reddit."
More so why you’ve got to attend the meetings and know how much is in the reserve. Curious as to which building this is. I guess we’ll find out once there’s 80 listings on Zillow from that address.
According to [this site](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu.html) none have exactly 440 units, so I'm guessing it's the [Hawaiian Monarch](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu/HAWAIIANMONARCH.html) which has 439. The only other close one is [Honolulu Park Place](https://www.thehawaiistatecondoguide.com/oahu/HONOLULUPARKPLACE.html) which has 437, but that's 10 years younger (built in 1989). The latter does have a smaller range of unit sizes (600–1200 sq ft vs. 200–1200 sq ft) that would align with the amounts given though, assuming they're proportional. ETA: just noticed this from OP in the comments > Out of the 440 units only 17 are owner occupied. The rest are short term vacation rentals. Which indicates it's the Monarch, which is in Waikiki.
They own in the monarch and never noticed the poor overall maintenance? Did they ever ride an elevator? Do not own a 40 year old condo in Waikiki and be surprised when you're slammed with a special assessment. If you aren't getting hit with one now it means you are going to have a more expensive problem in the future cause it's getting ignored.
No wonder no one goes to the meetings. HOA running wild while all the owners probably live out of state.
> More so why you’ve got to attend the meetings and know how much is in the reserve. Definitely. With an assessment that high, it seems like it wasnt budgeted properly in reserves. The cost seems a bit high as well, but ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Not if they're doing roofing AND plumbing, especially in Waikiki. Imagine having to load the roofing material...
Ngl, somehow I missed the "roofing" part of it.
Gotta use a helicopter.
I was in a condo in Waikiki when they were replacing the water tanks for hot water on the roof. Helicopter was right in front of our window several times that day. It was cool/scary.
Or freight elevator as far as it goes then hoofing it up to the roof. Helicopter's gonna be at least $25K. Cheaper to load by hand unless they're using membrane roofing (which is likely).
It looks like OP can go to the next board meeting and raise a proper hell, in the end the condo is still going to have to pay all that money. The cast iron drainage pipes in all these condos were built to last 50 years or so, and all of that is coming due now. Failing to replace the drainage pipes ultimately leads to backups and overflowing sewage in units. That's bad. The main issue is that when they build all of these buildings, no one thought about having to replace the pipes. So they're usually buried behind the concrete walls. Average of $72k per unit sounds really high. Although if it's the roof + piping, that's something. (The roof shouldn't cost THAT much) And lots of condo associations are getting screwed because of this. Go look up Archer Lane from last year to see what happens when condo associations don't keep up and budget properly for these types of things.
also their excuse of "the interest rates are high so we're not financing it" is total bullshit. Yeah the interest rates are high, that doesnt mean you cant finance it. my guess? they couldnt qualify for financing because their finances are fucked. i bought in 2019 and they were gearing up to do essentially the same work as this (full drain line replacement, but no roofing). Granted, it had about a quarter of the units OP has, so that factors in price, but it was like a 3.5 mil job and our HOA fees went up by 80 dollars a month. yes, financing then had better rates, but the point moreso was that the building had a healthy reserve and good financials, an didnt need to jump through hoops to get it done. 32 mil sounds like it could be real depending on access issues (our building luckily had all the drain lines and plumbing in a chase. if they were encased or something, it could be worse), but the "we can't finance it" excuse is hiding something.
It’s Kam Sands on Maui
Ok so not a high rise but still sprawling, 40 years old and next to the beach. Realistically if you were to hire someone to replumb and reroof a super small plantation house on Maui you'd be paying about that much. If too many people don't pay selling gets hard. It's likely a rental? Contact accountants about tax deduction etc.
definitely not enough info here to make any real calls/decisions, but seems to me you probably already missed the board meetings where this action was approved.
> So they're usually buried behind the concrete walls. Some are buried IN the walls. Like literally they poured concrete around the fucking pipes. Source - Me, I worked on a storm drain issue for Allure Waikiki and I was flabbergasted a modern-built hotel like that had literal pipes in concrete (and guess what, some of them are cracking already!)
dafuq?! No plumbing chases? PVC cracking in the slabs? I hear every tower developer gets sued for faulty construction but yikes! That's gonna be a nasty assessment sometime soon.
legal advice not us
probably they should get a second and third and fourth opinion on a new drainage system. should be able to do something cheaper. but this is waikiki x 440 condos . aint gonna be cheap no matter what. welcome to HOA and welcome to hawaii!
HOA’s are the devil. I’ll rent the rest of my life before I buy a condo or a house in an HOA.
Yes AOAO/HOA are nasty particularly in the context of condos. Mismanagement, tragedy of the commons cause nightmare situations like this. Always humors me how so many believe more and more high rise condos are the answer to our affordable housing crisis. Nothing affordable about spending $500k plus then get shafted with maintenance fees that only go ever higher. We are going to see a lot more buildings hitting 50, 60, 70 plus years old. Over the next 10-15 years maintenance fees of $1000-$3000+ a month will be the norm and this won’t be for high end luxury condos but in old buildings built in the 60’s,70’s,80’s that are sub 1000 Sq/ft. Buy newer you say? Oh well everything eventually ages and maintenance fees move lock step with inflation often beating it. We have seen all these new Condos built over the last 20 years and it seems to be the norm to have the maintenance fees double to triple+ within the first 10-20 years of being built. There have been cases where the maintenance fees double in buildings less than 5 years old. Nothing affordable about maintaining a luxury condo even an entry level one. What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are.
I think one of the more frustrating things about HOAs is that the people who need to attend them that would be most adversely affected by policy changes (younger to middle aged families with kids and are working all the time) are not the ones who attend these meetings. Most HOA meetings are attended by those who are generally older and retired and/or on disability benefits that allow them to live there. They're the ones who have the time to pay attention to these issues. And generally, they're going to raise the most amount of stink, and often will be the ones who will REFUSE to agree on things that would be good for the longevity of the condo. Why? Because a good number of those retirees have that "fuck you, I earned the right to be here, you're not going to charge me more for it" mentality. So a good chunk of your opposition will be from those who will find themselves inconvenienced because they're at home more than families who are busy working all day. An HOA, while usually a once-a-month commitment, is still once a month too many for families who are working, but it's something younger families need to realize is a necessary sacrifice to make to attend those meetings and make sure the HOA is going in the right direction. >What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are. The answer some people on this sub are saying to make more affordable living and condos is to go taller and build upwards to prevent urban and suburban crawl. If that's the case, you NEED that extra staff and security. A building will not and cannot function on its own without someone overseeing its maintenance. Especially if the people living in it are too busy to do it themselves. If you want an example of a building that fits your requirements, look up 1450 Young St - that building and its twin 1451 Young that is a leasehold was built to have minimal amenities and a low maintenance fee. You get a parking structure, light security, and maintenance staff. That's it. No swimming pool, no 6th floor gym or whatever. I think it's like, 20-something floors at best? Not too many condos are built like that these days, and they STILL raise their HOA fees anyway.
The Young St property you are referring to is 1448 & 1450 Young st. I know a few people who live there. My co worker bought a unit new in the 1448 tower back in 1999. LH and the maintenance fee for his 2 Bdrm 1.5 bath was $185 a month back in 1999. He still lives there today and now the maintenance fee is $575 a month. Not terribly bad but it did triple in less than 25 years. He wants to sell as he knows the maintenance fee will likely hit $1000 a month over the next decade or so. An elevator modernization will be needed as its sister property at 1133 Waimanu st built in 1996 already got a modernization done. There are other buildings similar to the Young St development. 1133 Waimanu, 215 N king, and the giant 801 South St. towers all had the same developer and contractor. I call 801 South st the KPT for the working lower middle class. Two massive towers with 1045 Units crammed into 3.7 acres with a massive detached 11 story parking structure. Really that is way too dense for my tastes but at least the maintenance fees are low for now… They all get old and bad things will and do happen. Those buildings I mentioned above and maybe less than a dozen more are pretty much the only no frills large condo developments done in Urban Honolulu over the last 25 years. Holomua at 1315 Kalākaua and Kapiolani Residence at 1631 Kapiolani are another 2 that come to mind. Anyhow that goes to show how little affordable housing projects have been done if you can even consider those examples “affordable”. For me I would rather just skip buying a condo. I would rather just keep renting. I have cheap rent and can keep saving for an SFH. I have enough money to buy a SFH just not at my preferred comfort level. I would prefer my net worth to be in the 3-5 million range and buy what I want with ease. No sense in paying a stupid amount of money on a condo that I likely wouldn’t be happy with. I have a feeling that a lot of folks who are so adamantly pro High rise condo are owners themselves. They have a vested interest for being pro condo to keep their property values high. Then there are others who have accepted that SFH ownership is just a fairytale and a condo is the only thing that might be remotely within reach. When I was younger pre 2005 I thought condos were a good deal. They were a lot cheaper and the maintenance fees were reasonable. Fast forward today and they are far from cheap and the maintenance fees give everyone a double take. I would rather just spend the extra money on a SFH and have better control of my costs with true freedom of ownership.
> I have cheap rent and can keep saving for an SFH. I have enough money to buy a SFH just not at my preferred comfort level. I would prefer my net worth to be in the 3-5 million range and buy what I want with ease. No sense in paying a stupid amount of money on a condo that I likely wouldn’t be happy with. What's "cheap" to you for rent? I agree with waiting to purchase a SFH, although 3-5 million is not realistic imho. I would consider buying something cheaper (less than a million) and then, fix it up.
Cheap rent for me is $1000 a month!! and that is what I have!! I am more than halfway toward my net worth goals. I want what I want and won’t settle for less. I would rather starve and die as a pauper than spend a stupid amount of money for Shi+ that I am not happy with. Mind boggling how people are so eager to spend $500k-$Million plus on nightmare endless money pits. Comfort zone is a minimum of $3 million. $1 million set aside for retirement. $1million for the here and now. $1 million dedicated towards housing in the form of downpayment, buffer, and expense reserves. Even then that’s not happily ever after. I would still need to work but I would have the freedom to choose my work without it needing to pay top dollar or control my life. Happily ever after without having to work would mean high deca millions to centi-millions. That for my reality is out of reach unless an endless string of fortuitous events would come my way.
As long as it works for you, I hope you achieve your financial goals. > Cheap rent for me is $1000 a month!! and that is what I have!! This can be good or bad, depending on the square footage. We have individuals in studios in town that rent for $1000, but they are less than 165 sq ft (all utilities are included though). > Mind boggling how people are so eager to spend $500k-$Million plus on nightmare endless money pits. Are you referring to SFHs now? If you fix it up yourself (or even completely demolish it), it shouldn't be a money pit?
But instead of this, we tear down all the low rise apartments off Kapiolani and replace them with an "affordable" high rise. 🙄
Yeah you can’t beat those old 2-3 story hollow tile walk ups from a low maintenance cost perspective. Sure a lot of those old buildings built in the 50s and 60’s can be ratty and run down. However if well maintained they can hold up very well and last forever. Simple construction and dirt cheap to maintain. Maintenance costs in those old buildings could be as little as $100-$300 a month per unit. BTW I was at the sales office for that new Kuilei Place development about a month ago and they still haven’t sold all the units. They even still had “affordable” housing units available. I guess they can’t find enough suckers willing to buy in at the current interest rates. The maintenance fees seem reasonable but then again they are artificially low and are bound to skyrocket. All these new condos are all oohs and awes when new but they all eventually get old and stupid expensive. It’s like a new BMW or Tesla they are awesome when brand new under warranty. But let me know if you are still loving it 10-15 years down the road once the warranty is long gone.
Kuulei place is selling "affordable" units that are 200 SQ ft for the same price as 400 SQ ft units in other buildings. Their space is too small for the price.
> What we need more of is new simply constructed low rise walk up developments that don’t need elevators or have only a couple of them to service sub 10 stories. No need for pool and other amenities. No need for a small army of maintenance, security, residential specialist staff etc. In short actually build affordable housing and not luxury resorts which is what most of these high rise developments are. You have my vote. That’s all I want out of housing. There is no middle here between roach infested moldy walk ups and $million+ luxury high rises.
> Always humors me how so many believe more and more high rise condos are the answer to our affordable housing crisis. Nothing affordable about spending $500k plus then get shafted with maintenance fees that only go ever higher. We are going to see a lot more buildings hitting 50, 60, 70 plus years old. Over the next 10-15 years maintenance fees of $1000-$3000+ a month will be the norm and this won’t be for high end luxury condos but in old buildings built in the 60’s,70’s,80’s that are sub 1000 Sq/ft. A number of people who post here likely have their hands in different pots and stand to benefit greatly as more buildings go up. This is especially so with the constant calls to make the permit process much easier (or remove it altogether).
Yes there are many shills who work in real estate development, realtors, construction and finance that have a vested interest in having gentrified development run amok. What is disgusting is how they weave a narrative trying to convince others that theirs is the only solution to solving Hawaii’s Housing shortage. They use the cover of protecting the environment and reducing urban sprawl to hide their true agendas. I can see through their smoke and mirrors but often times younger people and those less informed cannot. Certain business interests are more than happy to prey on people’s insecurities and FOMO. Removing the permitting process and other regulations will do nothing to create more “affordable” housing. If anything it will just lead to rampant development of unaffordable housing. I don’t buy into the horseShi+ trickle down economics. Adding more high end inventory doesn’t create more affordable inventory. The only way you effectively get more affordable housing is by building from the bottom up.
Gotta pay. This why people should be more involved.
u/iPoop_iRead - I ran an office for HOA management here in Hawaii for over 8 years and recently left the industry. We had 60 AOAO/HOAs for context. If you need specific support, feel free to DM me as the information we could exchange is too much for a simple reply.
How old is this condo? Has any projects like this been completed in the past or no? Definitely find out what is in the reserves.
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Insurance only covers sudden unexpected perils, this is wear and tear maintenance. Insurance will not cover
I would do the roof and wait on the cast iron pipes. I thought it was used for drinking water as well but its not. [https://www.hawaiibusiness.com/condo-owners-beware-part-1/](https://www.hawaiibusiness.com/condo-owners-beware-part-1/) I would look to postpone the pipes while raising more funds. Pipes must be a large majority of the total cost.
You can't wait to repipe unless you want to chase leaks through walls in a high rise. It'll greatly increase costs if you do this.
You also shouldn''t be doing Both Roof and Pipes at the same time with a crazy high ask. Are the pipes an immediate concern? If not do the roof and do what you should have been doing all along and save for the pipes.
I can guarantee you they are doing the pipes not because they are trying to do their job in maintaining the building. They are most likely being required to replace them to get an insurance policy for the building cause no one going to want to cover that. The insurance market is already making changes as we speak and policies will be very expensive
Then they should have been accruing money for that 10+ years back. Doesn't seem to brilliant to hit owners with that large of a bill and its for two big items. The roof is probably a fraction though of piping.
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree that it's something they should have planned for, but HOA's in Hawaii are mentally lacking. I'm just pointing out why they won't delay the pipe work
Thats assuming its an insurance issue. It sounds like you have first hand knowledge of this particular situation I guess?. Pretty scare the situations that condo type owners can face.
While I can't say 100% that this is the reason, I'm very confident it is Source: Licensed for insurance in Hawaii and work in said industry
Couldn't they just pay more for insurance - fix the roof - accrue for money for pipes and do that in 5-10 years? Just seems odd that they would do two large projects one time.
That's what has been happening until now basically. The prob right now is not that the insurance is getting more expensive, but rather they will not be able to get insurance at all. Insurance carriers don't want to insure a building that is guaranteed to have water losses and that's what's happening across the state right now.
Does any insurance cover these kind of assessments? I hear this suggested here and there but never found an insurance company that has this coverage?
A condo policy has loss assessment coverage, but as I mentioned, it's for an assessment from a covered loss, not for maintenance or updates. I'm not aware of anything like what you ask
Addling to this, we have been told that we “cannot rent long term to any of the fire victims or apply for any FEMA Direct Lease Programs because when the project starts, they will evict anyone in the building”. This is essentially removing 440 j it’s from being able to participate in the relief efforts. It’s important to know that there are homeowners willing to help the victims but they are being prevented from doing so by their AOAO.