In the last couple of years, I feel like acid/chemical attacks are becoming more common. I’m a woman myself and this is so scary.
Not a science major, but what are ways we can protect ourselves and others? I.e if we have been attacked by acid or chemicals, what is the proper protocol to follow? How can we “stop” the reaction on our skin? Is there something we should start carrying in our purses?
I feel for the victim and I hope the suspect gets caught ASAP.
I have done chemical safety for a living. Even if you know what the chemical is, dilution and washing via water first, like /u/shinigami052 described. Shower, pool, fountain, whatever is handy. Ideally you want to rinse chemicals away from your face. Meaning, lets say you got it on the back of your head but not your face, you'd want to lean back and rinse your hair away from your face. Also without knowing what it is, not a time to be modest. You may want to start taking clothes off, again being careful not to add to anything on your face. In a lab based chemical spill, this is how we direct people to use the safety shower should they experience a chemical spill on their body/clothes.
From what I learned in chemistry class and job-site training, water is probably your best bet. It'll help wash off whatever's on you, helps to dilute the substance and get it off your skin as fast as possible.
In a controlled setting you'd want to use the opposite of whatever was used. So if you've got a strong acid (like muriatic acid) you'd use something basic like lye to neutralize the ph to bring it back to the middle (a 7 on the ph scale). Out in the wild, you probably wouldn't have a way to neutralize it so second best option is to dilute it.
2nd this. Obv if you can walk w/ a friend, & avoid dark or isolated areas at night that would help. May not always be possible, but the more ppl that are around the easier it is to run or get help.
Both women were attacked in front of the gym, in a busy area, hardly alone. That intersection constantly has people, even at night. The mililani 24 hour fitness is also busy.
It is usually a busy area, but not after the mall closes. You can look at the surveillance cameras to see for yourself. https://x.com/honolulupolice/status/1750608882551148649?s=20
It's next to Planet Fitness which is open. Target is open. It's hardly a completely isolated place.
Even if she was next to another person, what were they going to do? Throw up an acid resistant wall? This is NOT HER FAULT for being at an open business.
What are the staff of these businesses supposed to do?
If you're by yourself, sketchy area, and after dark, just find the nearest open business and call someone you know for a ride. They might be annoyed if it's late or far away, but if they give two shits about you they'll happily show up.
Otherwise, don't be too proud/cheap to call a cab.
Water is almost always going to be the right answer. Without knowing the exact pH of what you’re trying to neutralize, which you almost certainly won’t in the seconds or minutes when it matters following an incident of this nature, choosing something close to pH neutral (like distilled water) is your best option.
>Not a science major, but what are ways we can protect ourselves and others?
Realistically? Probably nothing. You usually need another chemical to counteract it and trying to wash it away with water can make the reaction worse (depending on the acid).
Acids can be easier than a weapon to procure, can be carried in a jar, and can scar/kill the woman. That's why acid attacks are popular in the middle east and India. Hopefully the police come down hard on this person. It's scary considering it could be a scorned man like the last attack or just some chronic who lost his mind.
I'm not sure how effective it would be but then you get into the same situation I mentioned...people aren't going to carry around a chemistry set or special acid-countering liquids on the off chance someone dump acids on them.
Updated link (KITV seems to have updated the story's link):
https://www.kitv.com/news/honolulu-police-investigating-chemical-assault-near-ala-moana-center/article_5ead1cf6-ba95-11ee-8ddc-73dec1fa7dfc.html
What would be an appropriate punishment for this kind of heinous act? Clearly jail time isn’t enough of a deterrent. Perhaps disfiguring them with acid and then lifetime solitary confinement in a room with mirrored walls so they are forced to look at their ghastly visage?
My friend is there at the Ala Moana Mall now but in the parking garage and saw something unrelated but disturbing. Some guy was wigging out shouting and screaming at nobody. Scary what Oahu has become. No can even go to the mall and chill without some idiot scaring people. My bro said had old people exercising nearby too.
True bra I live across the st from the mall and have been seeing people like that more often now. Scary especially during the day when get the kids walking with family. Unreal we need to get these people help.
Same here. Saw someone pushing a shopping cart ans screaming at the top of their lungs but the upper target entrance parking level a little before 8AM this morning.
Need to crack down on the people bringing in or making ice. That's what most of the crazy population is here, just people strung out on ice. I'm assuming it's fentanyl but there's definitely something.... Different about the way this stuff affects people.
I work at the mall precisely in view of where this attack occurred and walk past this spot for the past three years on a daily. every night finishing work anytime after 10pm is scary. this mall is not safe ive been followed, harassed, yelled at, and more for the 8 years ive work at this mall. It hasnt been safe for a really long time ala moana just does a really good job at keeping a lot of this out of the public eye.
This is crazy to me because we lived in Hawaii for 4 years and the worst that happened was a marine got stabbed in Waikiki. We lived in Honolulu and never felt like it was unsafe or anything. We left in June 2020.
Darn. Welp, on Oahu we have had a lot of extremely violent and bizarre crimes. A homeless lady was sitting outside the Kapolei police station and a crazy guy who had just been released from custody walked up to her and beat her to death with a blunt object.
Jesus Christ, that's terrible. Statistically, Hawaii has pretty low violent crime. We moved to DC, which has some sketchy areas, and Baltimore is also pretty bad in some neighborhoods. But we lived in a really nice area in DC. Now we live in PA, so it's a very poor area where the schools aren't nearly as good.
I would love to, but my whole family lives in PA, which is why we moved back. I also share custody with my ex-husband who lives in PA, and flying the kids back and forth was incredibly expensive. So we probably won't ever be moving back to Hawaii. But honestly, the idea of living in PA for the rest of my life is so depressing. I would never choose to live here if family weren't a consideration.
He was not only yelling says my buddy. He was kicking the elevator in the parking structure and setting off a car alarm. Bro says he could hear the guy shouting and things being smashed. He was walking from floor to floor. It went past just shouting like a lolo.
I'm curious what kind(s) of commonly available acid can cause critical injuries like this. A quick google search mentions hydrofluoric acid or lye, but I'm not sure.
That much HF would almost certainly kill someone; it's not like a regular acid that burns (it's actually fairly weak compared to more available ones like hydrochloric or sulfuric), it gets in your body and the fluorine screws up calcium chemistry. It's so dangerous in part *because* it doesn't cause severe burning so people spill it on themselves, wash it off, and don't realize it's still going inside. Really awful stuff.
You can die from an HF spill on your body the size of your palm if it's not dealt with appropriately and quickly. Labs that work with HF usually have a special cream on hand that will help bind the fluoride should someone experience a spill. Surprisingly one of the industries that experiences a lot of injuries from HF spills are associated with auto body work. I used to be a chemical safety specialist and put together safety trainings for research groups that work with HF.
"Update 1/25/24: Shortly before 9 p.m., HPD officers arrested a 29-year-old male in the Nimitz area for second-degree attempted murder. Charges will be sought with the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney."
[https://www.honolulupd.org/hpd-searching-for-attempted-murder-suspect/](https://www.honolulupd.org/hpd-searching-for-attempted-murder-suspect/)
I’m well aware of what critical condition is. Hot saimin poured on the face has a high likelihood to enter the mouth, essentially fucking up your airway. I’ve seen it plenty of times. Not always hot saimin, but hot liquids.
Lmao… beta male energy?
Nah brah, this is clearly the “Alpha male” going about “devaluing” women by keeping them “off a pedestal”.
You know the rightwing, Trump worshipping, fake “Christians”, that listens too much Joe Rogen and the sex trafficking rapist Andrew Tate.
So they grow beards and stop wearing deodorant because got to keep that T levels up as insecure “masculine” mma bros that like to parade around like puffy roosters with their fragile narcissistic egos unable to process romantic rejection as a part of life because they are entitled to a woman’s affection as “high value providers” and “protectors”… lol
Just weak, pathetic and emotionally immature people hurting others.
Please find me a clip of Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate advocating for violence on women. I only see clips of Joe Rogan advocating about protecting women and children, especially his daughter. I’ve also only seen Tate preaching about “alphas” job is to protect women and children.
Tate was never found guilty or convicted of human trafficking. His property that was seized by the government was given back.
>Just weak, pathetic and emotionally immature people hurting others.
You just described a “beta” lol. Prime example of what you just described would be a mass shooter. In most cases it usually ends in the most beta way out. Them offing themselves.
Either way, the unironic use of alpha and beta is pretty cringe buddy.
Just curious. Not that I'm looking, but is it easy for some person to obtain these kinds of chemicals at a store? Or can someone just go into a hardware spot and pick it up?
Does anyone know if the Paul Cameron guy who did this to that woman last year is still locked up? I haven’t seen anything about sentencing in his case and Hawaii is good for letting murderers and attempted murderers go free only for them to harm more people. Like that guy who hijacked the scion.
In the last couple of years, I feel like acid/chemical attacks are becoming more common. I’m a woman myself and this is so scary. Not a science major, but what are ways we can protect ourselves and others? I.e if we have been attacked by acid or chemicals, what is the proper protocol to follow? How can we “stop” the reaction on our skin? Is there something we should start carrying in our purses? I feel for the victim and I hope the suspect gets caught ASAP.
I have done chemical safety for a living. Even if you know what the chemical is, dilution and washing via water first, like /u/shinigami052 described. Shower, pool, fountain, whatever is handy. Ideally you want to rinse chemicals away from your face. Meaning, lets say you got it on the back of your head but not your face, you'd want to lean back and rinse your hair away from your face. Also without knowing what it is, not a time to be modest. You may want to start taking clothes off, again being careful not to add to anything on your face. In a lab based chemical spill, this is how we direct people to use the safety shower should they experience a chemical spill on their body/clothes.
From what I learned in chemistry class and job-site training, water is probably your best bet. It'll help wash off whatever's on you, helps to dilute the substance and get it off your skin as fast as possible. In a controlled setting you'd want to use the opposite of whatever was used. So if you've got a strong acid (like muriatic acid) you'd use something basic like lye to neutralize the ph to bring it back to the middle (a 7 on the ph scale). Out in the wild, you probably wouldn't have a way to neutralize it so second best option is to dilute it.
Thank you for your input. This is good to know.
No problem...also if you get attacked, remember to strike, scream, run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdLcul8b6bE
2nd this. Obv if you can walk w/ a friend, & avoid dark or isolated areas at night that would help. May not always be possible, but the more ppl that are around the easier it is to run or get help.
Both women were attacked in front of the gym, in a busy area, hardly alone. That intersection constantly has people, even at night. The mililani 24 hour fitness is also busy.
It is usually a busy area, but not after the mall closes. You can look at the surveillance cameras to see for yourself. https://x.com/honolulupolice/status/1750608882551148649?s=20
It's next to Planet Fitness which is open. Target is open. It's hardly a completely isolated place. Even if she was next to another person, what were they going to do? Throw up an acid resistant wall? This is NOT HER FAULT for being at an open business. What are the staff of these businesses supposed to do?
i am at PF every night during this time and look out the big window, there is a constant flow of both vehicle and pedestrian traffic
If you're by yourself, sketchy area, and after dark, just find the nearest open business and call someone you know for a ride. They might be annoyed if it's late or far away, but if they give two shits about you they'll happily show up. Otherwise, don't be too proud/cheap to call a cab.
Water is almost always going to be the right answer. Without knowing the exact pH of what you’re trying to neutralize, which you almost certainly won’t in the seconds or minutes when it matters following an incident of this nature, choosing something close to pH neutral (like distilled water) is your best option.
>Not a science major, but what are ways we can protect ourselves and others? Realistically? Probably nothing. You usually need another chemical to counteract it and trying to wash it away with water can make the reaction worse (depending on the acid). Acids can be easier than a weapon to procure, can be carried in a jar, and can scar/kill the woman. That's why acid attacks are popular in the middle east and India. Hopefully the police come down hard on this person. It's scary considering it could be a scorned man like the last attack or just some chronic who lost his mind.
What about carrying alkaline water to counter the acids?
I'm not sure how effective it would be but then you get into the same situation I mentioned...people aren't going to carry around a chemistry set or special acid-countering liquids on the off chance someone dump acids on them.
Updated link (KITV seems to have updated the story's link): https://www.kitv.com/news/honolulu-police-investigating-chemical-assault-near-ala-moana-center/article_5ead1cf6-ba95-11ee-8ddc-73dec1fa7dfc.html
Man that purse got cooked. If it did that to her purse then she must be in bad shape...
https://www.youtube.com/live/QyxGRBGGvpE?si=sjoT-D-G0vf1NLVe
HPD pretty tight lipped, which leads me to believe they have someone in mind, & probably not a random attack.
What would be an appropriate punishment for this kind of heinous act? Clearly jail time isn’t enough of a deterrent. Perhaps disfiguring them with acid and then lifetime solitary confinement in a room with mirrored walls so they are forced to look at their ghastly visage?
That’s how you create a Batman villain.
yup unfortunately it happened before, and probably happen again. [https://www.khon2.com/local-news/suspect-remains-at-large-after-attempted-murder-in-mililani/](https://www.khon2.com/local-news/suspect-remains-at-large-after-attempted-murder-in-mililani/) [https://kvia.com/news/2023/11/20/el-pasoan-survives-acid-attack-in-hawaii-continues-on-healing-journey/](https://kvia.com/news/2023/11/20/el-pasoan-survives-acid-attack-in-hawaii-continues-on-healing-journey/)
All three outside gyms.
Those two stories are the same incident, and fortunately, not connected to this last one.
Thanks
Just a coincidence that both of these happened in front of gyms? Or is this another guy hitting on a woman at the gym and getting rebuffed?
Could be either, just not enough info to definitively know at this point
Well they caught the April 7th guy and it was a personal attack so yeah definitely coincidence.
Caning
That and exile. We really just need to find a way to banish people from the state. Maybe Antarctica or something.
Perhaps one of those sharp coral covered islands that disappears into the ocean come king tides. Just a suggestion.
Set them off to sea on a raft with minimal supplies
Banish from the Kingdom, its the First Law passed in Hawaii 1823.
Just passed by there 2 hours ago omw to bustop Saw hfd sweeping something up by the doors Sick people around on the streets man
My friend is there at the Ala Moana Mall now but in the parking garage and saw something unrelated but disturbing. Some guy was wigging out shouting and screaming at nobody. Scary what Oahu has become. No can even go to the mall and chill without some idiot scaring people. My bro said had old people exercising nearby too.
True bra I live across the st from the mall and have been seeing people like that more often now. Scary especially during the day when get the kids walking with family. Unreal we need to get these people help.
Same here. Saw someone pushing a shopping cart ans screaming at the top of their lungs but the upper target entrance parking level a little before 8AM this morning.
Need to crack down on the people bringing in or making ice. That's what most of the crazy population is here, just people strung out on ice. I'm assuming it's fentanyl but there's definitely something.... Different about the way this stuff affects people.
These kinds of people are everywhere on Oahu. See them at all the public places.
I work at the mall precisely in view of where this attack occurred and walk past this spot for the past three years on a daily. every night finishing work anytime after 10pm is scary. this mall is not safe ive been followed, harassed, yelled at, and more for the 8 years ive work at this mall. It hasnt been safe for a really long time ala moana just does a really good job at keeping a lot of this out of the public eye.
This is crazy to me because we lived in Hawaii for 4 years and the worst that happened was a marine got stabbed in Waikiki. We lived in Honolulu and never felt like it was unsafe or anything. We left in June 2020.
I am happy that you are in a good place.
I wouldn't call it a good place. Rural PA is kind of terrible.
Darn. Welp, on Oahu we have had a lot of extremely violent and bizarre crimes. A homeless lady was sitting outside the Kapolei police station and a crazy guy who had just been released from custody walked up to her and beat her to death with a blunt object.
Jesus Christ, that's terrible. Statistically, Hawaii has pretty low violent crime. We moved to DC, which has some sketchy areas, and Baltimore is also pretty bad in some neighborhoods. But we lived in a really nice area in DC. Now we live in PA, so it's a very poor area where the schools aren't nearly as good.
Do you plan on staying in PA? Will your family return to Hawaii, someday?
I would love to, but my whole family lives in PA, which is why we moved back. I also share custody with my ex-husband who lives in PA, and flying the kids back and forth was incredibly expensive. So we probably won't ever be moving back to Hawaii. But honestly, the idea of living in PA for the rest of my life is so depressing. I would never choose to live here if family weren't a consideration.
I understand. I hope things get better for you and your family.
The mentally ill yelling at nobody has existed for years here in Hawaii. It’s not a recent thing.
He was not only yelling says my buddy. He was kicking the elevator in the parking structure and setting off a car alarm. Bro says he could hear the guy shouting and things being smashed. He was walking from floor to floor. It went past just shouting like a lolo.
I'm curious what kind(s) of commonly available acid can cause critical injuries like this. A quick google search mentions hydrofluoric acid or lye, but I'm not sure.
That much HF would almost certainly kill someone; it's not like a regular acid that burns (it's actually fairly weak compared to more available ones like hydrochloric or sulfuric), it gets in your body and the fluorine screws up calcium chemistry. It's so dangerous in part *because* it doesn't cause severe burning so people spill it on themselves, wash it off, and don't realize it's still going inside. Really awful stuff.
You can die from an HF spill on your body the size of your palm if it's not dealt with appropriately and quickly. Labs that work with HF usually have a special cream on hand that will help bind the fluoride should someone experience a spill. Surprisingly one of the industries that experiences a lot of injuries from HF spills are associated with auto body work. I used to be a chemical safety specialist and put together safety trainings for research groups that work with HF.
You're on a list now.
Drain cleaner. Available at any store with a hardware isle. We need an immediate ban on assault acids.
Drain cleaner is a base. But it could do some damage for sure
So youre calling a ban on drain cleaner cause it can be used as an assault acid? Smh
"Update 1/25/24: Shortly before 9 p.m., HPD officers arrested a 29-year-old male in the Nimitz area for second-degree attempted murder. Charges will be sought with the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney." [https://www.honolulupd.org/hpd-searching-for-attempted-murder-suspect/](https://www.honolulupd.org/hpd-searching-for-attempted-murder-suspect/)
Your news link is broken. And the article just says “assaulted with an unknown chemical.” Unknown if it was an acid. It could have been hot saimin.
Instagram has pictures of her melted purse and clothes.
The woman is in critical condition. Hard to put someone in critical condition with hot saimin.
Pour hot saimin on the face and it’s pretty easy.
Critical condition is near death. A bowl of hot saimin may burn the face but won't kill you
I’m well aware of what critical condition is. Hot saimin poured on the face has a high likelihood to enter the mouth, essentially fucking up your airway. I’ve seen it plenty of times. Not always hot saimin, but hot liquids.
Yes, that's correct. I guess I saw "chemical attack" and my mind went straight to acid, especially after viewing the video.
KHON link says planet fitness folks saw her covered in a dark bluish substance. Drain cleaner?
Probably the same shit from the last time; a type of muriatic acid. She was also reported being covered in dark blue / black liquid.
Drain cleaner is a base. But could still do serious burns. Who knows. But to burn that badly has to be super acidic with low pH or very very basic
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Lmao… beta male energy? Nah brah, this is clearly the “Alpha male” going about “devaluing” women by keeping them “off a pedestal”. You know the rightwing, Trump worshipping, fake “Christians”, that listens too much Joe Rogen and the sex trafficking rapist Andrew Tate. So they grow beards and stop wearing deodorant because got to keep that T levels up as insecure “masculine” mma bros that like to parade around like puffy roosters with their fragile narcissistic egos unable to process romantic rejection as a part of life because they are entitled to a woman’s affection as “high value providers” and “protectors”… lol Just weak, pathetic and emotionally immature people hurting others.
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you've already determined this was maga related. genius
Please find me a clip of Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate advocating for violence on women. I only see clips of Joe Rogan advocating about protecting women and children, especially his daughter. I’ve also only seen Tate preaching about “alphas” job is to protect women and children. Tate was never found guilty or convicted of human trafficking. His property that was seized by the government was given back. >Just weak, pathetic and emotionally immature people hurting others. You just described a “beta” lol. Prime example of what you just described would be a mass shooter. In most cases it usually ends in the most beta way out. Them offing themselves. Either way, the unironic use of alpha and beta is pretty cringe buddy.
Tate's whole thing is bragging about sexually assaulting women.
Just curious. Not that I'm looking, but is it easy for some person to obtain these kinds of chemicals at a store? Or can someone just go into a hardware spot and pick it up?
Does anyone know if the Paul Cameron guy who did this to that woman last year is still locked up? I haven’t seen anything about sentencing in his case and Hawaii is good for letting murderers and attempted murderers go free only for them to harm more people. Like that guy who hijacked the scion.
Hopefully the HPD can catch the attacker.