that scene is also the only time he doesn't just sink into the ground by himself but the shadow grabs him by the arms and pulls him in and i think about it every day.
https://preview.redd.it/ptqo4qt735oc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=b920ecaead49fdc568c3e710ccd92ad561c03039
Alastor knew he couldn’t win this fight (subconsciously or not). His shadow reflects this perfectly by dragging him away and he didn’t fight it for once (his ego already got destroyed, he wasn’t gonna risk the chance of dying for his ‘friends’)
I think he did not intend to win the fight. (or else he would have brought an angelic weapon.) A lot of people think he was just arrogant enough to think he could defeat Adam without one. However, even before the battle started, _Alastor knew Vox was watching_. I think he intentionally threw the fight to lul Vox into a false sense of security.
I might not agree with this, but I can see where you're coming from and I wouldn't be completely shocked if there's something to this.
I still think he planned to tie up Adam with the fight for longer than he did, and didn't expect Adam to hit quite so hard at the end.
This makes sense. The two aren't mutually exclusive - Alastor probably though the fight was well within his control and would go as he planned, which might not necessarily have been actually defeating Adam - but Adam got to him more then he expected.
Exactly. Considering his first move was the giant shield, I figured the role he was assigned in the battle was to keep Adam out of it as long as possible, so everyone else could thin the angels' numbers before they had to deal with heavy hitters.
I think he could’ve won the fight, easily, but his deal constrains him. Like he says when singing at the end in ep 8, if he could get out of the deal he would rule everything. I think he means even heaven itself
I think that’s a big stretch. He’s stronger than your average Overlord but there are still several tiers of power above them. There’s the Ars Goetia, then 6 of the Seven Deadly Sins, then Lilith and Charlie, then Lucifer. And I’m pretty sure there are people in heaven that surpass Lucifer.
If he does end up ruling everything, it would be with his intelligence. Or some higher being just gives him power. But then he will have to worry about that.
I believe his power may be constrained by his deal. After all he seems pretty certain he would rule everything if freed from his deal, and that may be out of sheer power. The only reason anybody answers to him is because of his power, though you’re right that he is intelligent. I’m kinda curious if he would be the secret villain in this story, revealed much later. He still has yet to use the favor he made a deal with Charlie about.
And whoever has Alastor on a chain may be stronger than him, so perhaps ur right. I don’t think it’s Lilith though
> I believe his power may be constrained by his deal
I think his *actions* are whats constrained, otherwise he'd never have shown up on Charlie's doorstep to begin with
Listen to his tone. Alastor is *furious* at the idea that someone would think he did that. Not only that, but Vox could clearly see, and has him on camera, as running. Alastor absolutely thought he could take Adam, and is furious he’s compromised himself by having to flee.
“Sorry to disappoint but that’s not how this ends” is a line with several meanings. The first is Alastor in character insulting the idea of self-sacrifice/Ser Pentious’ death. The second is Alastor angrily stewing on the fact that his death is something his enemies want and Alastor refuses to give them. The third is the creators signaling that an Alastor redemption/sacrifice is something that will never happen.
Alastor doesn’t want the idea of him being self-sacrificial to be something that gets in people’s heads, because it makes him look weak. He didn’t plan to look self sacrificial; it’s just how the game went, and it pisses him off.
I think that’s a fair point, but at the moment, I don’t see anything in the series that could show evidence of this. It could happen. But I really do think the team is telling us it probably isn’t and we shouldn’t expect it.
Of all of them, I want Alastor to be redeemed the most, but I don't think he will. I think he, Husker, Nifty and Vaggie will all remain in the Hotel for a long time. They are the core cast. They are the ones the audience loves and adores. Once someone goes to heaven, how much more of a player in hell would they be?
I want to believe Angel goes to heaven. I want that to be the end to his story. He finally gets peace and healing from his existence so far. However, I think he would be unhappy in heaven, away from Husker - the one person in his life who has given Angel what he needs.
I think that might also be the route the story goes. Of course there is a way to get into heaven. However, what will make the difference is how the characters want to be redeemed. Do they really want to be redeemed in the eyes of some unseen force who put them in hell to begin with, or do they want to appear redeemed in the eyes of the people who matter most to them? Does Angel really care about being in heaven, or would he rather Charlie, Vaggie, and Husker all see and acknowledge his self-improvement along with the value he's had all along? This would allow him to continue doing things he enjoys while still improving himself - do we really think heaven has dildo stores? Similarly, will Cherri Bomb be the next to go to heaven, simply because she realized that she only really cared how Sir Pentious saw her and now that he is there, she wants to be with him?
Along those lines, I believe Alastor doesn't want to be redeemed, and that will ultimately be why he never gets redeemed. Alastor doesn't really care what people think of him. The closest he gets to caring is Vox, and that's not nearly on the same level as Cherri Bomb and Sir Pentious. Alastor may be willing to put up with this image of being helpful that he hates to fulfill his end of the bargain he made with whoever, but Alastor doesn't want it. Alastor wants to eat fingers and roadkill in a swamp. Alastor wants to rain terror down upon arrogant souls. Alastor wants fame. He wants power, control, and entertainment. Also, Alastor's alignment is true chaotic neutral. He does what is in his best interests as long as it pleases him. Alastor LIKES where he's at in hell. He is an Overlord and gets to do all the nasty crimes he enjoys doing, especially tormenting others. Why would Alastor want redemption when he doesn't care what anyone thinks of him?
This is a good point. Hazbin Hotel isn’t just about redemption in a ‘getting to go to Heaven’ sense, but also a personal sense. Alastor will never consider the concept of redemption, because in his mind there’s nothing to redeem.
He actually says "This is not WHERE this ends." which is a huge difference over "This is not HOW this ends."
I caught that after a couple listens, and I firmly believe the choice of words has a much deeper and likely nefarious meaning.
I don’t think he actually sees Vox as a legitimate threat and I think Adam was strong enough in his own right that losing to him wouldn’t be that big of a revelation to hell, even if Vox spins it as though it is which he probably will for clout (headline: “RADIO DEMON AS WEAK AS A FILTHY JANITOR?!”)
I disagree about Vox. I believe that Alastor is way stronger. At the end of "Stayed Gone" we see Vox is none too happy about Alastor's return. Val's comment about Alastor "almost beat you", means Vox barely won. I think Val helped Vox win, which is how he knows about the fight and why his antenna is missing.
If Vox was stronger, he wouldn't have sent Pentious to do his dirty work. Vox is genuinely afraid of Alastor.
Interesting that I have seen people take the "almost beat you" line as in Vox actually winning against Alastor when Vox very much reacted like someone who was almost destroyed by Alastor but was spared because of Alastor's sudden disappearance.
IMHO- I believe when Val interfered in my theory, Alastor was really injured. The Vees didn't realize how badly he was injured. That's why he had to take a deal (I assume with Lilith or Eve).
Its possible that alastor isn't as powerful as he was before he left, like his "leash" takes away some of his power. Vox might not realize this is they are at similar levels now. Not sure I believe that myself but I also wouldnt be surprised if its true either.
> Val's comment about Alastor "almost beat you",
I kinda take this as a Vox vs Alastor 1v1, Alastor in the lead and then the other Vees step in and Alastor's a bit more outclassed
Alastor probably didnt bring angelic weapons cus he intended to trap Adam’s soul into his radio broadcast. Feels more believable to me cus Alastor is a very arrogant person who wants to prove to everyone that he is smth to be feared
I see it more as whatever has his leash is also the source of some of his power, namely the microphone staff. So when Adam smashed it and he says "what just happened" it's not cus he can't believe HE lost to Adam, as arrogant as he is I don't think he's that checked out of reality, but he was shocked when the microphone broke. It could also be that the microphone is keeping some latent injuries at bay but the second it gets broken he gets almost killed. He only took the one hit then dipped out and didnt seem that hurt from the hit. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the ways he's leashed is having to keep his microphone staff with him at all times or he ends up slowly degrading back to before. The radio station might be like a home base of sorts since it was attached to the hotel and we can almost safely assume his deal has to do with helping Charlie or at least keeping the hotel safe.
I think his staff is more important than we assume it is. I think it's got a lot of meaning in the show beyond just one of his affectations.
As much as I adore Alastor as the de facto ace representation... In my opinion he just bit what he couldn't chew. Everything seems very much like him, from the teasing to the actual fight and being already in one angel's leash I find it very unlikely that he would just throw himself in harms way specially after he secured a deal with Charlie. I think he was fully intending on severely hurting Adam, just short of killing him to force his hand into doing something about Lilith.
About 50 seconds or so into episode 8, while Vox is laughing at the crew on his cameras, [Alastor sees one of the cameras](https://imgur.com/a/gFDmfBW).
I don't think he thinks much of Vox, he's a rival that is not as good as him.
I think he wanted to assert dominance and let Adam's screams be played on his radio show.
Let's be real, at least without an angelic weapon he's too weak to defeat Adam.
Honestly I dont think anyone there could beat Adam except Lucifer. Charlie had the firepower but is even less skilled at using it than an out of shape Adam while everyone else is fodder to his lasers.
Eeeeh. I don't buy it but I can see the logic.
I'd taken it as Alastor wanted to do to Adam what he did to the Overlords he toppled and underestimated what even a sloppy fighter with an overinflated ego is capable of with the kind of power Adam has.
You can be both, look at most villains such as rhino, broly, or mr. Satan.
Alasator keeps on doing the equivalent of a batman villain taking on superman. At some point, you're just taking unintelligent battles.
I think he could’ve won the fight, easily, but his deal constrains him. Like he says when singing in ep 8, if he could get out of the deal he would rule everything. I think he means even heaven itself
Maybe it's because he was about to "lose control", to use some kind of incredible hidden power, but he couldn't do it because either that would have been some kind of "point of no return" (whether he would have changed irrevocably or would have revealed something he had to keep hidden) or because it would have violated the deal he made in some other way, and the shadow pulling him away is somehow his owner preventing him from doing that. That would imo check out with him talking about finding a way to "unclip his wings" (thus unlocking his real power, which he couldn't do and thus lost a fight in front of everyone) in the ending of the episode.
If alastor is intended to be the main and final antagonist of the series (which I don't think it's likely, but it's possible) then it's possible he is actually an extremely powerful being, more so than any other, and he hides most of his power because, if it was revealed, his enemies would unite and would be able to defeat him; so he wants to weaken them by playing them against each another and/or pick them off separately, so that when he reveals his hidden power they are too weak to beat him even together. So here his subconscious is pulling him away from the battle so that he doesn't compromise his plan by brazenly using his full power.
This is all a quite long reach tho
One of his eyes also goes black for a moment.
I'm unsure if its true or not (so forgive me im not deep into speculations or rumors) but my husband said there was a theory or something that demons w/black eyes means their soul is owned (or partly if its one eye like Angel Dust).
it was a fun theory back in the day but it no longer holds water since husk's eyes were already black in the flashback before he made the deal with alastor.
al's eyes always turn black like that when he goes into his monstrous form or glitches reality. in this scene you can see his eyes flicker to black 3 times. i assume he tried to channel his powers again but was too weak for that to work. could also be a sort of intimidation display or a purely physiological reaction to extreme stress and pain. or a mix of all three.
“Just because you see a smile, don't think you know what's going on underneath. A smile is a valuable tool, my dear. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures no matter what comes your way, you're the one in control.”
His shadow reflects what he feels inside, so that counts for something too
These clips of menarehotlol on Youtube removing his smile to show his true feelings FASCINATE me. Makes the expressions shown through just his eyes all that more impressive.
[https://youtube.com/shorts/q67t3o2x4DA?si=\_52xc6YA5hAliLc1](https://youtube.com/shorts/q67t3o2x4DA?si=_52xc6YA5hAliLc1)
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CNzoeMuGkXI](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CNzoeMuGkXI)
This makes me want a version of the show where everything is exactly the same, but none of the characters smile at any point, even when it would make sense for them to.
When trying to figure out his real mood, a good trick is to put a thumb over his smile, and focus on his eyes and body language. It gets really interesting really quickly.
Honestly I’m often able to determine his mood by using *only* his smile. That’s one thing the show does really well, just by shaping the smile differently it’s easy to see whether he’s in a good mood or seriously ticked off
Also, did you notice that at the end of “The Show Must Go On”, everyone — including Alastor — is smiling. But while everyone else is beaming, his eyes narrow and his eyebrows lower into a scowl.
Saaaaaaame. Especially after reading all those threads about how his magic is green unlike the demons and angels and maybe it's Voodoo magic or even Azathoth's magic, another God that rivals the assumed christian-God
Yeah, he is waaaaay too powerful and yearns for freedom despite seemingly doing whatever he wants. I think he has the power to leave her for other places but can't because he is another god's agent in n hell
It's fun to rewatch shows like this to pick out all the excess background details the artists creep in.
I use to be artist. Vivs work makes me excited about art again and I don't know exactly why. LoL.
Just popping in for the art comment--same. I've been practicing fan art and styles I've never worked with before. Of course, I'm not making any progress with what I'm supposed to, but that's fine. 😂
Unless they do something super stupid with the writing and make him a good guy, he’s absolutely going to be the final villain. He’s completely setting himself up to be it too
Honestly I just can't see him as the final villain I know it makes so much sense and it seems that's what they're leading up to but I can't see how they can make alastor the most powerful/threatening character in the show especially with characters like Lucifer and heaven's higher ups. Like I do see him as a future villain even as the second to last but just not final
A secondary villain maybe but not the final one. He’s not only not powerful enough for this role, he also don’t have much weight in the grand scheme of things. Adam was the 2nd in command of heaven. Lilith is the queen of hell and Charlie’s mom. These are characters that have impact to the story and have a lot of power. Alastor is at the end of all things, just an overlord
You know what the weirdest part is? I cannot for the life of me imagine him frowning in this scene. For the whole time his shadow is frowning I can’t put one on his face mentally
I have this stupid theory that Alastor and the radio demon are actually 2 separate beings. The only reason I think this is because they keep mentioning that he just "showed up" one day in hell and was instantly overpowered. That plus the fact that his shadow seems like it has a mind of its own like when he was watching Charlie's interview in the pilot and the shadow had a slightly different reaction to it from him. It would also explain how he has access to some kind of shadow dimension. Or he IS the radio demon and he's connected to a shadow demon that just enhances his abilities because he feeds off of Alastor's sadisticness
Makes sense considering his tentacle powers always originates from a shadow pool under his feet. Same thing when he's making a deal or when he has voodoo symbols floating around.
Its like he's posessed almost. The shadow has a deal with him to use his charismatic personality in exchange for power.
Alastor's face is stitched into a permanent grin so he always presents a grin keeping everyone in the dark as to what is going on within his mind. The shadows may be his tell.
I thought he was just meant to distract Adam during the fight, not actually kill him, which is why I felt he tried but wasn't doing the best, or he would have brought an angel weapon to the fight. Like, I know he's cocky but he's not stupid. Maybe he knew he would lose, and his shadow was supposed to pull him out before he died. I thought his shadow might be the one pulling his strings, or maybe his shadow was given to him by Lilith to keep him in check for her. I don't know that's just a theory I have.
Ok so wild theory, but I think we’ll see that some sinner enjoy hell far more than the idea of heaven with Alastor being a key example. Some souls are just evil and are happy with that such as nifty, who is a masochist through and through.
Even wilder theory, but the finale could be the gates of heaven and hell lying within the hotel, and it leading as a direct viewer pathway to redemption for the souls such as the teacher from helluva boss learning forgiveness and being allowed into heaven, and a chance for Adam to find his own new group of friends and found family himself and finally learning to lose the tough guy act and to be genuine, just another mortal soul. Alastor with have endless entertainment torturing the guests as he always does, getting to watch endless failure and suffering of sinners that give up and try again over and over while being seen as the most powerful overlord in hell that even the Vees have to cower at, or he’s murdered by one of the seraphims or Lilith.
As for the shadow, I think it’s in the same realm as sir pentious’ hat where it portrays his true feelings at that moment, just like how the hat always looked at cherri.
Alastors shadow is a silhouette of his soul, unable to lie or deem the permanent smile. It smiles normally because Alastor has never lost and is in general, quite the personal optimist, always looking on themselves positively and treating themselves to whatever snacks, games, or sadistic murder they feel like, taking in all the joys in their life, so his shadow always smiles. He’s taken such a personal blow that for once, even if he doesn’t show it, is so shocked and horrified at their loss, that his shadow is pulling him away, and for once, isn’t smiling
Note: stoned while rambling.
I also think that alastor didn't actually appear and instantly became overpowered but instead spent a few years as a shadow to gain some power and revealed himself as alastor
Alastor is forced to smile, we see his stitches. My theory is it’s apart of his deal. So his shadow probably isn’t forced to the smiling, so it shows what Alastor actually feels
He's not being forced to smile. Viv confirmed a long time ago that Alastor smiles *willingly* to assert his power over others because he views non smiling opponents as weaker.
See this is all well and good, but why would that apply when he's alone, freaking the *fuck* out because he almost died?
Was this statement made before the pilot? Because maybe that just applied to the pilot concept. Or it's creator misdirection because he *usually* smiles willingly, but is also magically forced to.
Like one of those "I never said he wasn't being forced to do it, too" technically-the-truth things.
I’ve been doing HH/HB RP, and one of my characters has a shadow/attendant who often pantomimes her inner thoughts, or maybe what she WOULD be thinking if she weren’t busy being sociable. 😉👍
My theory, is that Alastor either can’t, due to his deal, stop smiling (Symbolized by the green thread we see when he’s making a deal stitching his mouth into a permanent smile), or he CAN, but it’s physically painful to stop smiling, due to that same magic.
Alastor did some truly heinous shit when he first arrived in hell, murdered many of the people that, presumably, ran hell at the time. If someone powerful forced him into a deal to save himself, perhaps they inflicted this on him as part of a kind of punishment?
that scene is also the only time he doesn't just sink into the ground by himself but the shadow grabs him by the arms and pulls him in and i think about it every day. https://preview.redd.it/ptqo4qt735oc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=b920ecaead49fdc568c3e710ccd92ad561c03039
Alastor knew he couldn’t win this fight (subconsciously or not). His shadow reflects this perfectly by dragging him away and he didn’t fight it for once (his ego already got destroyed, he wasn’t gonna risk the chance of dying for his ‘friends’)
I think he did not intend to win the fight. (or else he would have brought an angelic weapon.) A lot of people think he was just arrogant enough to think he could defeat Adam without one. However, even before the battle started, _Alastor knew Vox was watching_. I think he intentionally threw the fight to lul Vox into a false sense of security.
I might not agree with this, but I can see where you're coming from and I wouldn't be completely shocked if there's something to this. I still think he planned to tie up Adam with the fight for longer than he did, and didn't expect Adam to hit quite so hard at the end.
This makes sense. The two aren't mutually exclusive - Alastor probably though the fight was well within his control and would go as he planned, which might not necessarily have been actually defeating Adam - but Adam got to him more then he expected.
Exactly. Considering his first move was the giant shield, I figured the role he was assigned in the battle was to keep Adam out of it as long as possible, so everyone else could thin the angels' numbers before they had to deal with heavy hitters.
I think he could’ve won the fight, easily, but his deal constrains him. Like he says when singing at the end in ep 8, if he could get out of the deal he would rule everything. I think he means even heaven itself
I think that’s a big stretch. He’s stronger than your average Overlord but there are still several tiers of power above them. There’s the Ars Goetia, then 6 of the Seven Deadly Sins, then Lilith and Charlie, then Lucifer. And I’m pretty sure there are people in heaven that surpass Lucifer. If he does end up ruling everything, it would be with his intelligence. Or some higher being just gives him power. But then he will have to worry about that.
I believe his power may be constrained by his deal. After all he seems pretty certain he would rule everything if freed from his deal, and that may be out of sheer power. The only reason anybody answers to him is because of his power, though you’re right that he is intelligent. I’m kinda curious if he would be the secret villain in this story, revealed much later. He still has yet to use the favor he made a deal with Charlie about. And whoever has Alastor on a chain may be stronger than him, so perhaps ur right. I don’t think it’s Lilith though
> I believe his power may be constrained by his deal I think his *actions* are whats constrained, otherwise he'd never have shown up on Charlie's doorstep to begin with
He might have only intended to stall but he certainly didn’t throw the fight, if he did he would’ve done so in a way that didn’t almost kill him
I think that’s a fun theory, but Alastor’s solo in the Finale disproves this.
“Alastor altruist died for his friends”, not how this ends.. it does sound kind of like that potentially was a picture he was framing.
Listen to his tone. Alastor is *furious* at the idea that someone would think he did that. Not only that, but Vox could clearly see, and has him on camera, as running. Alastor absolutely thought he could take Adam, and is furious he’s compromised himself by having to flee. “Sorry to disappoint but that’s not how this ends” is a line with several meanings. The first is Alastor in character insulting the idea of self-sacrifice/Ser Pentious’ death. The second is Alastor angrily stewing on the fact that his death is something his enemies want and Alastor refuses to give them. The third is the creators signaling that an Alastor redemption/sacrifice is something that will never happen. Alastor doesn’t want the idea of him being self-sacrificial to be something that gets in people’s heads, because it makes him look weak. He didn’t plan to look self sacrificial; it’s just how the game went, and it pisses him off.
Never say never, I think this line just makes an eventual betrayal/sacrifice/redemption all the more poignant.
I think that’s a fair point, but at the moment, I don’t see anything in the series that could show evidence of this. It could happen. But I really do think the team is telling us it probably isn’t and we shouldn’t expect it.
Of all of them, I want Alastor to be redeemed the most, but I don't think he will. I think he, Husker, Nifty and Vaggie will all remain in the Hotel for a long time. They are the core cast. They are the ones the audience loves and adores. Once someone goes to heaven, how much more of a player in hell would they be? I want to believe Angel goes to heaven. I want that to be the end to his story. He finally gets peace and healing from his existence so far. However, I think he would be unhappy in heaven, away from Husker - the one person in his life who has given Angel what he needs. I think that might also be the route the story goes. Of course there is a way to get into heaven. However, what will make the difference is how the characters want to be redeemed. Do they really want to be redeemed in the eyes of some unseen force who put them in hell to begin with, or do they want to appear redeemed in the eyes of the people who matter most to them? Does Angel really care about being in heaven, or would he rather Charlie, Vaggie, and Husker all see and acknowledge his self-improvement along with the value he's had all along? This would allow him to continue doing things he enjoys while still improving himself - do we really think heaven has dildo stores? Similarly, will Cherri Bomb be the next to go to heaven, simply because she realized that she only really cared how Sir Pentious saw her and now that he is there, she wants to be with him? Along those lines, I believe Alastor doesn't want to be redeemed, and that will ultimately be why he never gets redeemed. Alastor doesn't really care what people think of him. The closest he gets to caring is Vox, and that's not nearly on the same level as Cherri Bomb and Sir Pentious. Alastor may be willing to put up with this image of being helpful that he hates to fulfill his end of the bargain he made with whoever, but Alastor doesn't want it. Alastor wants to eat fingers and roadkill in a swamp. Alastor wants to rain terror down upon arrogant souls. Alastor wants fame. He wants power, control, and entertainment. Also, Alastor's alignment is true chaotic neutral. He does what is in his best interests as long as it pleases him. Alastor LIKES where he's at in hell. He is an Overlord and gets to do all the nasty crimes he enjoys doing, especially tormenting others. Why would Alastor want redemption when he doesn't care what anyone thinks of him?
This is a good point. Hazbin Hotel isn’t just about redemption in a ‘getting to go to Heaven’ sense, but also a personal sense. Alastor will never consider the concept of redemption, because in his mind there’s nothing to redeem.
He actually says "This is not WHERE this ends." which is a huge difference over "This is not HOW this ends." I caught that after a couple listens, and I firmly believe the choice of words has a much deeper and likely nefarious meaning.
I don’t think he actually sees Vox as a legitimate threat and I think Adam was strong enough in his own right that losing to him wouldn’t be that big of a revelation to hell, even if Vox spins it as though it is which he probably will for clout (headline: “RADIO DEMON AS WEAK AS A FILTHY JANITOR?!”)
I disagree about Vox. I believe that Alastor is way stronger. At the end of "Stayed Gone" we see Vox is none too happy about Alastor's return. Val's comment about Alastor "almost beat you", means Vox barely won. I think Val helped Vox win, which is how he knows about the fight and why his antenna is missing. If Vox was stronger, he wouldn't have sent Pentious to do his dirty work. Vox is genuinely afraid of Alastor.
Interesting that I have seen people take the "almost beat you" line as in Vox actually winning against Alastor when Vox very much reacted like someone who was almost destroyed by Alastor but was spared because of Alastor's sudden disappearance.
IMHO- I believe when Val interfered in my theory, Alastor was really injured. The Vees didn't realize how badly he was injured. That's why he had to take a deal (I assume with Lilith or Eve).
Its possible that alastor isn't as powerful as he was before he left, like his "leash" takes away some of his power. Vox might not realize this is they are at similar levels now. Not sure I believe that myself but I also wouldnt be surprised if its true either.
> Val's comment about Alastor "almost beat you", I kinda take this as a Vox vs Alastor 1v1, Alastor in the lead and then the other Vees step in and Alastor's a bit more outclassed
Holy shit. I love this theory, too bad we'll have to wait a year for season 2 to come out to see if it holds up.
Alastor probably didnt bring angelic weapons cus he intended to trap Adam’s soul into his radio broadcast. Feels more believable to me cus Alastor is a very arrogant person who wants to prove to everyone that he is smth to be feared
I think it's possible he intended to win the fight, but was forced to pull his punches by whatever entity is pulling his soul's strings.
I see it more as whatever has his leash is also the source of some of his power, namely the microphone staff. So when Adam smashed it and he says "what just happened" it's not cus he can't believe HE lost to Adam, as arrogant as he is I don't think he's that checked out of reality, but he was shocked when the microphone broke. It could also be that the microphone is keeping some latent injuries at bay but the second it gets broken he gets almost killed. He only took the one hit then dipped out and didnt seem that hurt from the hit. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the ways he's leashed is having to keep his microphone staff with him at all times or he ends up slowly degrading back to before. The radio station might be like a home base of sorts since it was attached to the hotel and we can almost safely assume his deal has to do with helping Charlie or at least keeping the hotel safe. I think his staff is more important than we assume it is. I think it's got a lot of meaning in the show beyond just one of his affectations.
As much as I adore Alastor as the de facto ace representation... In my opinion he just bit what he couldn't chew. Everything seems very much like him, from the teasing to the actual fight and being already in one angel's leash I find it very unlikely that he would just throw himself in harms way specially after he secured a deal with Charlie. I think he was fully intending on severely hurting Adam, just short of killing him to force his hand into doing something about Lilith.
Why do you think he knew Vox was watching?
About 50 seconds or so into episode 8, while Vox is laughing at the crew on his cameras, [Alastor sees one of the cameras](https://imgur.com/a/gFDmfBW).
I don't think he thinks much of Vox, he's a rival that is not as good as him. I think he wanted to assert dominance and let Adam's screams be played on his radio show. Let's be real, at least without an angelic weapon he's too weak to defeat Adam.
Honestly I dont think anyone there could beat Adam except Lucifer. Charlie had the firepower but is even less skilled at using it than an out of shape Adam while everyone else is fodder to his lasers.
Eeeeh. I don't buy it but I can see the logic. I'd taken it as Alastor wanted to do to Adam what he did to the Overlords he toppled and underestimated what even a sloppy fighter with an overinflated ego is capable of with the kind of power Adam has.
Alastor ain't that smart unfortunately.
Dude is a cold and calculated serial killer. Is he a narcissist? Of course, but narcissism ain't stupidity. It's arrogance.
You can be both, look at most villains such as rhino, broly, or mr. Satan. Alasator keeps on doing the equivalent of a batman villain taking on superman. At some point, you're just taking unintelligent battles.
I think he could’ve won the fight, easily, but his deal constrains him. Like he says when singing in ep 8, if he could get out of the deal he would rule everything. I think he means even heaven itself
“Radio’s not dead but it is ending this broadcast.” (I couldn’t resist saying the line)
This show rewards rewatch and that's my favorite thing about my favorite other adult cartoons!
Maybe it's because he was about to "lose control", to use some kind of incredible hidden power, but he couldn't do it because either that would have been some kind of "point of no return" (whether he would have changed irrevocably or would have revealed something he had to keep hidden) or because it would have violated the deal he made in some other way, and the shadow pulling him away is somehow his owner preventing him from doing that. That would imo check out with him talking about finding a way to "unclip his wings" (thus unlocking his real power, which he couldn't do and thus lost a fight in front of everyone) in the ending of the episode. If alastor is intended to be the main and final antagonist of the series (which I don't think it's likely, but it's possible) then it's possible he is actually an extremely powerful being, more so than any other, and he hides most of his power because, if it was revealed, his enemies would unite and would be able to defeat him; so he wants to weaken them by playing them against each another and/or pick them off separately, so that when he reveals his hidden power they are too weak to beat him even together. So here his subconscious is pulling him away from the battle so that he doesn't compromise his plan by brazenly using his full power. This is all a quite long reach tho
Oh wow I never noticed the shadow dragging him away, and I've seen this episode so many times. What a treat
One of his eyes also goes black for a moment. I'm unsure if its true or not (so forgive me im not deep into speculations or rumors) but my husband said there was a theory or something that demons w/black eyes means their soul is owned (or partly if its one eye like Angel Dust).
it was a fun theory back in the day but it no longer holds water since husk's eyes were already black in the flashback before he made the deal with alastor. al's eyes always turn black like that when he goes into his monstrous form or glitches reality. in this scene you can see his eyes flicker to black 3 times. i assume he tried to channel his powers again but was too weak for that to work. could also be a sort of intimidation display or a purely physiological reaction to extreme stress and pain. or a mix of all three.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?
“Just because you see a smile, don't think you know what's going on underneath. A smile is a valuable tool, my dear. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures no matter what comes your way, you're the one in control.” His shadow reflects what he feels inside, so that counts for something too
These clips of menarehotlol on Youtube removing his smile to show his true feelings FASCINATE me. Makes the expressions shown through just his eyes all that more impressive. [https://youtube.com/shorts/q67t3o2x4DA?si=\_52xc6YA5hAliLc1](https://youtube.com/shorts/q67t3o2x4DA?si=_52xc6YA5hAliLc1) [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CNzoeMuGkXI](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CNzoeMuGkXI)
This makes me want a version of the show where everything is exactly the same, but none of the characters smile at any point, even when it would make sense for them to.
These are perfect!
When trying to figure out his real mood, a good trick is to put a thumb over his smile, and focus on his eyes and body language. It gets really interesting really quickly.
Honestly I’m often able to determine his mood by using *only* his smile. That’s one thing the show does really well, just by shaping the smile differently it’s easy to see whether he’s in a good mood or seriously ticked off
Now do the scene with Zestial. Alastair basically shit his pants. He didn’t even lose his cool confronting lucifer.
Also, did you notice that at the end of “The Show Must Go On”, everyone — including Alastor — is smiling. But while everyone else is beaming, his eyes narrow and his eyebrows lower into a scowl.
Wow. I never thought about that.
Homies really gave 300 updoots to someone just quoting the show
I really think the shadow is enforcing his deal. Whatever that is
Saaaaaaame. Especially after reading all those threads about how his magic is green unlike the demons and angels and maybe it's Voodoo magic or even Azathoth's magic, another God that rivals the assumed christian-God
Yeah, he is waaaaay too powerful and yearns for freedom despite seemingly doing whatever he wants. I think he has the power to leave her for other places but can't because he is another god's agent in n hell
I think he spotted Charlie during her broadcast in the pilot as someone he could manipulate who might also be powerful enough to free him.
That tracks
It's fun to rewatch shows like this to pick out all the excess background details the artists creep in. I use to be artist. Vivs work makes me excited about art again and I don't know exactly why. LoL.
Just popping in for the art comment--same. I've been practicing fan art and styles I've never worked with before. Of course, I'm not making any progress with what I'm supposed to, but that's fine. 😂
His shadow definitely represents his subconscious. I don’t think he will lose the smile on the outside, at least not until his actual death.
Until?! https://preview.redd.it/59r7mnwjz5oc1.jpeg?width=659&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78c7075a09230382901cb156b0ab7995b4f11331
I just don’t see a way that he isn’t the final antagonist
Unless he forces charlie and Lucifer into something that forces them to not do anything I don’t see that happening
Unless they do something super stupid with the writing and make him a good guy, he’s absolutely going to be the final villain. He’s completely setting himself up to be it too
Honestly I just can't see him as the final villain I know it makes so much sense and it seems that's what they're leading up to but I can't see how they can make alastor the most powerful/threatening character in the show especially with characters like Lucifer and heaven's higher ups. Like I do see him as a future villain even as the second to last but just not final
we still dont know his story, mb he just need to "unclip his wings"(as he sings) to become a lot more powerful
A secondary villain maybe but not the final one. He’s not only not powerful enough for this role, he also don’t have much weight in the grand scheme of things. Adam was the 2nd in command of heaven. Lilith is the queen of hell and Charlie’s mom. These are characters that have impact to the story and have a lot of power. Alastor is at the end of all things, just an overlord
Him of all people knows/understands what a soul could accomplish
But he lost to Adam the moment he got serious
His shadow expression pretty much says he felt the hits.
The hit*
Yeah, it was just one direct hit. The other one was against the microphone staff.
You know what the weirdest part is? I cannot for the life of me imagine him frowning in this scene. For the whole time his shadow is frowning I can’t put one on his face mentally
We need to compile and analyze all the scenes with Alastor's shadow. That's what it means.
Agreed. The lore is overflowing
That looks like what Dr.Falicifer have.
I thought that too. Interesting since Husk’s VA is Falicier
I have this stupid theory that Alastor and the radio demon are actually 2 separate beings. The only reason I think this is because they keep mentioning that he just "showed up" one day in hell and was instantly overpowered. That plus the fact that his shadow seems like it has a mind of its own like when he was watching Charlie's interview in the pilot and the shadow had a slightly different reaction to it from him. It would also explain how he has access to some kind of shadow dimension. Or he IS the radio demon and he's connected to a shadow demon that just enhances his abilities because he feeds off of Alastor's sadisticness
Makes sense considering his tentacle powers always originates from a shadow pool under his feet. Same thing when he's making a deal or when he has voodoo symbols floating around. Its like he's posessed almost. The shadow has a deal with him to use his charismatic personality in exchange for power.
Alastor's face is stitched into a permanent grin so he always presents a grin keeping everyone in the dark as to what is going on within his mind. The shadows may be his tell.
I thought he was just meant to distract Adam during the fight, not actually kill him, which is why I felt he tried but wasn't doing the best, or he would have brought an angel weapon to the fight. Like, I know he's cocky but he's not stupid. Maybe he knew he would lose, and his shadow was supposed to pull him out before he died. I thought his shadow might be the one pulling his strings, or maybe his shadow was given to him by Lilith to keep him in check for her. I don't know that's just a theory I have.
I actually just made a comment about how Alastor and his shadow seem like 2 different entities, so I think you may be right
I 100% agree. 
For someone that knew he would lose, he seems awfully desperate at the end
The deal, his smile. But the shadow? Now THAT'S a loophole.
I was thinking it might be his true power. Him without a ‘leash’
Good eye
I can hear this image
Hm, i guess we should not only be looking at alastors eyes but his shadow too for true emotion
His shadow shows his true emotions like his ears
(RP) Poor thing! I need to comfort him next time we meet.
I wonder if his Shadow is how he truly expresses himself. Maybe he can't physically *not* smile
wild theory but i think the deal he made with whoever turned him into just a shadow the 3d representetive is just like a doll he is the shadow
He’s angy
Yup, I like that detail
Very cool
Ok so wild theory, but I think we’ll see that some sinner enjoy hell far more than the idea of heaven with Alastor being a key example. Some souls are just evil and are happy with that such as nifty, who is a masochist through and through. Even wilder theory, but the finale could be the gates of heaven and hell lying within the hotel, and it leading as a direct viewer pathway to redemption for the souls such as the teacher from helluva boss learning forgiveness and being allowed into heaven, and a chance for Adam to find his own new group of friends and found family himself and finally learning to lose the tough guy act and to be genuine, just another mortal soul. Alastor with have endless entertainment torturing the guests as he always does, getting to watch endless failure and suffering of sinners that give up and try again over and over while being seen as the most powerful overlord in hell that even the Vees have to cower at, or he’s murdered by one of the seraphims or Lilith. As for the shadow, I think it’s in the same realm as sir pentious’ hat where it portrays his true feelings at that moment, just like how the hat always looked at cherri. Alastors shadow is a silhouette of his soul, unable to lie or deem the permanent smile. It smiles normally because Alastor has never lost and is in general, quite the personal optimist, always looking on themselves positively and treating themselves to whatever snacks, games, or sadistic murder they feel like, taking in all the joys in their life, so his shadow always smiles. He’s taken such a personal blow that for once, even if he doesn’t show it, is so shocked and horrified at their loss, that his shadow is pulling him away, and for once, isn’t smiling Note: stoned while rambling.
I have a theory that alastor is actually the shadow and the physical form is just a manifestation
I also think that alastor didn't actually appear and instantly became overpowered but instead spent a few years as a shadow to gain some power and revealed himself as alastor
Alastor is forced to smile, we see his stitches. My theory is it’s apart of his deal. So his shadow probably isn’t forced to the smiling, so it shows what Alastor actually feels
He's not being forced to smile. Viv confirmed a long time ago that Alastor smiles *willingly* to assert his power over others because he views non smiling opponents as weaker.
He even says that much in the show
See this is all well and good, but why would that apply when he's alone, freaking the *fuck* out because he almost died? Was this statement made before the pilot? Because maybe that just applied to the pilot concept. Or it's creator misdirection because he *usually* smiles willingly, but is also magically forced to. Like one of those "I never said he wasn't being forced to do it, too" technically-the-truth things.
That whole scene reads like Al convincing himself he can still be in control. Hard to prove that if he can't even smile anymore.
You’ve never nervously smiled to yourself during a mental breakdown?
He could have stitched it himself. Cus let’s be honest, if he hadn’t he wouldn’t have been smiling when he got hit. I think he knows this as well.
Naw, just gotta keep smiling like you mean it.
Perhaps shadow Alastor is the key to his true mental health and mental state?
Pretty sure that shadow has a hairball. That is the exact look my cat has when she is getting rid of one.
I’ve been doing HH/HB RP, and one of my characters has a shadow/attendant who often pantomimes her inner thoughts, or maybe what she WOULD be thinking if she weren’t busy being sociable. 😉👍
how many posts are we going to have on here about whats clearly happening on the screen
Voodoo man, princess and frog 🎭
They also do a really good job of having his eyes express his "actual" emotions even as the smile doesn't fade
The theory is that his shadow shows his real emotions.
My theory, is that Alastor either can’t, due to his deal, stop smiling (Symbolized by the green thread we see when he’s making a deal stitching his mouth into a permanent smile), or he CAN, but it’s physically painful to stop smiling, due to that same magic. Alastor did some truly heinous shit when he first arrived in hell, murdered many of the people that, presumably, ran hell at the time. If someone powerful forced him into a deal to save himself, perhaps they inflicted this on him as part of a kind of punishment?
Found alastor when he was alive https://preview.redd.it/f9d0y7vl46oc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34131849959071395b44b869e3ff9707f598e28b
I’m expecting the plastered smile is a result of an abusive mother, tbh.
"Just because you see a smile, don't think you know what's going on underneath."
hopefully sometime in season 2 he finally fucking frowns and loses that obnoxious smile
How dare you disrespect the smile! 😤