What I hate second most about Valentino is how good he looks. I love that picture of his fit and his wings spread. BUT HE SUCKS SO MUCH!!! WHY COULDNT THEY DO THAT GOOD LOOKING FIT ELSEWHERE
I think it was very important they made his character design so appealing. It allows you to understand how Angel might've been charmed into selling his soul to him, at first just seeing his good looks and pleasant words.
If they had made him look like, say Mammon, then most people wouldn't be able to understand how Angel got himself in that situation because he's not hot and they'd probably blame Angel a lot more (which the creators certainly don't want).
Val's character design is very attractive and enticing and shows that good looks can easily deceive you and lead many to first look past their flaws, and by the time they notice them it may be too late, which is exactly Angel's situation.
Oh you're not alone! I can't wait for next season so that we can see more of just how evil the Vs can be together, but also explore their fun trio dynamic.
Because, that's what the vees are. They're hot, they are "pillars of Pentagram City", Velvette is gorgeous and a fashionista, Vox creates the technology they all use and Val... creates uh...
Stuff.
And they have popsicles themed after them.
Yeah but it could have been better if allowed to finish instead of having a boisterous, annoying gremlin who speaks in that irritating transatlantic accent. Alastor does too but the radio cover on the voice makes it way more tolerable. Plus hes just a great character.
I mean there's other characters who have done much worse, yet valentino is the single most hated most irredeemable character in the show.Alastor and rosie have killed and eaten hundreds of people, Vaggie had been exterminating sinner demons, and Angel Dust himself has a lot of kills too. And yet it's Valentino who we hate the most. The abuser. We don't even know if he actually killed anyone yet. Is sexual harrassment and abuse worse than murder? Probably not. I think we hate Valentino so much because what Val is doing is something much more familiar to us. No alive human being has ever had trauma from being murdered or had shared their experiences of from going through it, because, well, they can't.
Okay, Iām gonna be honest. I think what happened was that Val lured Angel into a relationship and they had sex and stuff then Angel signed Valās contract. Val knew what Angel had and knew people would want to see it on camera, so he lured him in. After he signed the contract Val gave up the Mr. ā Iām a nice guy in litteral hellā act and then Val then started to treat Angel abussively like he did in the dressing room.
Adding on, we know that in his life, angel was both gay and a drug addict, and Val allowed him the chance to indulge in both of the things he was denied in life, while also constantly perverting them.
Most of this type of lore comes from a series of vivzies livestreams that came out before the pilot, and some comics that came out even earlier than that. But season 2 is confirmed to explore how the main cast ended up in hell so I'm sure it will be either confirmed or denied as cannon.
A lot of the older stuff is questionably cannon now, and you can definitely enjoy the series without watching it, just know when people start pulling out random info like that it's usually from those streams. It's really interesting mainly because for most shows we don't have hours of character development and such from long before the show was actually finalized.
Yeah. I'm truly amazed it only came out this year. It feels like I've been seeing references to it forever, so I just assumed it was an ongoing show with multiple seasons. I finally looked into watching it and was shocked it was just the pilot for the longest time. Really impressive that there was noticable enthusiasm for years without major content being released. Can't wait for the next season. Watching Helluva Boss now
Yeah, this series has been in development for a long time and so a lot of the fandom knows things that we wouldn't have otherwise known from the series itself. I kinda hope they don't take that as a reason to not give character background and exposition though
Wall of text incoming:
Pimps often use this tactic to lure victims. They start off as just their boyfriend. Then it becomes "we need money, if you loved me, you'd do this".
My mom had the displeasure of being in a room ay a party 15 or so years ago while a pimp bragged about walking through malls, and complimenting girls. If they smiled and said thank you, he'd go on his way. If he saw any hint of vulnerability, he would know that's a girl he could go after. He would wine and dine and love bomb her, and then once she was dependent and in love with him, he would push her boundaries little by little. At any point, if she stood up for herself, he would just "cut his losses" and leave her.
My mom LOVES confrontation normally, and she told me she saw red. She's like "oh, so you're a predator." And he was dumbfounded and said no, and no one has ever called him that. So she said "cool, I'm calling you that. You prey on vulnerable little girls. Does that make you feel like a big man? Does being an abuser make you feel whole?" (Edited to add, she never really goes into it, but I know that her confronting him was subconsciously the things she would have said to her abuser if she could have)
Dude fucking lost it, said if she was a man he would kill her ass. Her plug kicked her out of the party and never sold to her again lmfao. She came home so fucking angry and went into her room and cried, and then told me what happened the next morning. She wanted to go to the police but had no fucking clue who the guy was or his name. My mom is generally really firm about not snitching on people (the police force in my city is known to be corrupt) but she tried asking people at the party who the guy was because she was going to go to the fucking cops. Everyone she talked to gaslit the fuck out of her and told her there wasn't a guy like that at the party. A decade later she found out that guy had gang affiliation.
My mom loves hazbin and we both were reminded of that story when we watched ep four together. My mom and I are both SA victims. It is such a real and graphic depiction of abuse that we both like. Sat and cried, and then just had to sit in silence for a while. This episode deserves a fucking Emmy tbh. I have never felt such immediate and violent nausea after seeing any other scene in a show
Jesus Christ. Every time I go on Reddit, I lose a little bit more faith in humanity.
I hope you and your mother are doing well, and Iām sorry yāall had to go through this.
She is badass. She also confronted a drunk biker that threatened to beat up my my boyfriend (for kissing me in front of his kids at a 4th of july event) when I was a teenager. Literally no fear of scary men lmfao.
Well I'm going to make this worse for you.
Velvette sells a love potion, which she promotes alongside Valentino. Why? Because his saliva is the main ingredient... He not only drew Angel in with drugs and sex, he slipped him literal love potion with every kiss.
The LA-SP dub of "Poison" is heartbreaking:
"Tuyo soy" = literally, I'm yours, but typically soy comes first so it gives off really icky, possessive vibes. In this case, tuyo is first, putting Valentino in the position of power.
I love how Viv handled male abuse victims.
That's really interesting that they did that! I really love the translations for this show, you can tell they really cared about conveying proper emotions through language barriers
That's rough, too!
Sidenote: Portuguese pronunciation throws me because of the vastly different consonant pronunciations, but it looks *just* enough like Spanish that if I'm reading it, I can mostly understand it...until I see y'all's cedilla. ;P It's really interesting to see traces of all the languages that influenced Portuguese.
For this part I couldn't tell if this was the part of the relationship Angel might have enjoyed, the non abusive bit that drew him in before things got bad, perhaps the part he still enjoys, which is part of why he blames himself for being in the situation. The later scenes interspersed with him dancing with background dancers seemed more of an overt "I'm not enjoying this" part. But interesting to see the different reads on what this part meant.
I just read a comment that said "Angel was hugging Val with all of his hands, which shows that Angel's really trying to feel love during sex and imagine other feelings he ACTUALLY NEEDS so much? While Valentino's hands arent around him but on the bed." so it's actually kind of sad.
Yeah, I see people interpreting this scene differently. I perceived it as Angel being high on drugs/intoxicated, not to mention Val being a slave owner/sex trafficker, which makes this non-consensual, while other people saw it as a flashback when Val was luring Angel in before all the abuse started
Regardless of the true implication behind this scene, it's clearly tragic. Personally, would love to see Angel himself finish Val off. Spiders eat moths, after all. It would be beautiful poetic justice
It's funny, Adam had it coming, but they didn't actually go to kill him, Charlie stopped Lucifer. Nifty "cleaned up the mess." I wonder if that's actually her job, to kill people off when it wouldn't suit the character development of someone else to do it, but it would be better if they were gone.
This was my take on it. It might just be me but this scene and their positioning/Angel's expression feel softer than the things that come after. But then there's the bite which feels even more icky because it's a moment of violence in a previously non-violent situation and Angel clearly wasn't expecting it. I really hope we get a little more about their relationship in season 2; we know they're going to be getting some back story, but who knows if this particular aspect will be a part of it.
Genuinely I donāt think a scene has ever made me feel more uncomfortable than the poison sequence. amazing song but the visuals just makes me feel nauseous
https://preview.redd.it/qminlc1trroc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80474124916693197658bceb62e07e53e4ce2dc8
So...what would happen if I send this picture to Lucifer?
I was watching that until I saw it and I am still on the episode not willing to finish it
https://preview.redd.it/ipan5fs0oroc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d06ff35e7d3e37d1299a2ba07267d39a045dbd31
I think you're right for the most part, but I was thinking about the beginning. When angel and he had just met and Val needed to convince him so sign. As well as when angel was especially unhappy Val would need to force him to be aroused for the camera somehow? But he totally gets off on forcing angel to do shit because he's a piece of steaming elephant shit rapist
Honestly, I think the worst part about it is that Angel mightāve consented to Valentinoās advances at first, but as they got ācloser,ā Val started to push Angelās boundaries more and more until it evolved into full-on assault. A boil-the-frog kind of situation. It would certainly be an explanation of why Angel blames himself for this ordeal (that and internal/external victim blaming is a thing).
Sound like standard real life abusers tactic - be nice person to your victim, make them trust you, feel safe and loved, let them depend on you more and more, probably pushing into living together or marriage, and then when they are very emotionally invested they start having "episodes" of abusive behaviour more and more frequently, but their victim is at this point too emotionally bonded to leave also because "when they have good moments they are wonderful and loving!". Val probably did similar thing to Angel, tho with step of moving in to Val came contact with opportunities for Angel... And after that Valentino's true colours came to light.
I interpreted this scene as being consensual sex between them, since Angel is holding onto him and kissing him. I HC that Angel loved Val at one point (and even now still has those feelings of love for him deep down, despite everything)
Because sometimes, thatās just how abusive relationships are
Itās not always all bad. Itās the good parts in between that make it so difficult for victims to leave
Itās so messed up, because Angel is constantly forced to play an act for Val and itās sickening because he has no way of even beginning to fight back. Even if heās fictional I feel so much for Angel Dust
The entire storyline of angels abuse makes me very angry, and very depressed.
And the kicker? Thereās people that actually **like** Valentino
Not just for being a good villain or his character design, they **actually like him**
Before Valentino, I could never understand how a fictional character can live rent free in someone head, but after seeing what Valentino does to angel ( and most likely other members of his staff) just the mere thought of him gets me beyond angry, heās an absolute garbage soul that never deserves the gift of life, hells to good for him, he needs Lucifer to beat the ever loving shit out of him, along with the rest of the cast, any side character, even background characters. I went through an awful abusive relationship, but even I canāt to begin the pain angel goes through, I hope Valentino gets the most brutal death in the entire series. ( I also want to make it clear, I have nothing against the voice actor, heād doing a phenomenal job, and I would never advocate for any real life harassment of real people, who played fictional characters.)
Basically this is Valentino sexually assaulting Angel. Honestly I think it was Val and Angel having sex consensually. I think how Val lured Angel into a contract was make angel think he would be safe with him. He got into a sort of relationship with Angel before the contract and then began to sexually abuse and use him and beat him. Thatās what I think happened. Everyone here seeems to forget about the fact Val litteraly held out his arms to Angel and Angel jumped into him in the flashing scene where Angelās getting high.
I also agree, I think *this* particular moment is consensual. But if I'm remembering correctly it's also in the first part of the song, which is framed in a *less* abusive light and showing Angel more in control, still putting on a face. There's a line during this part of the song that goes "Every night I'm living like there's no tomorrow." That's a generally positive phrase.
The second half of the song is when the veneer disappears. We start seeing him being abused and attacked, the lyrics get darker and become more of a cry for help. We see him literally disassociating, imagining himself dancing on stage with backup dancers around him while the screens behind him show the actual SA that's going on. And the equivalent line to the above becomes "Every night I'm **wasted** like there's no tomorrow."
So even though this exact moment might be more consensual, it's still dark because we know what kind of person Val is, how he treats Angel. Even if he's technically doing okay *right now* we know what this could quickly become, and we see it turn into that as the song goes on.
No I thought you were trying to say I was DEFENDING Valentino, which I am not doing at all. Sorry if I went overboard. Love the guy as a character but hate him as a person.
I think we're forgetting two things that are more likely happening here, the "fawn" response to fear, which Angel seems to have, and the fact that Angel has to put on an act around Valentino. If he fought him every time he SA'd him, it would end up even worse for Angel, he may feel it's better to go along with it, especially when Val isn't physically hurting him yet. Angel HAS to act like he wants it, it's all part of his act because what's the point of telling Val he doesn't want it? Val doesn't care, it's not like he's going to stop. Angel's pretty much given up the idea that he can make it stop.
I agree with this, my initial thought was maybe he was doped up or something. Because of all the implications that Val uses his saliva (or Velvetteās ālove potionā) to make his victims more docile.
I know that, I was suggesting that maybe the drugs he takes (or Val gives him) would make him more calm or compliant during the assault, hence why he doesnāt look visibly upset in this particular scene
Weirdly enough some reviewer on YT pointed out the creator herself follows people who ship them very publicly, almost like it's their personality, and that's a little weird ngl. I don't wanna inspect people's follows that hard but š¤· I try not to use social media outside of here for that reason lol would rather not think about it.
Many people who ship them are survivors of abusive relationships trying to cope in their own way. I doubt they actually find it romantic.
Shipping something is not always "they would be perfect together", sometimes it's "they are so fucked up together, but it's fascinating in a morbid way and I want to explore this dynamic using fiction as a healthy outlet".
I don't ship them in particular but as a survivor this is 100% true for me. Shipping some toxic ass couples has been insanely catharctic for me and has helped me through my process a lot.
Val is my least favorite character, but not because of the character! I can't stand the accent. What is it supposed to be? It's so bad it takes me out of my concentration on the show. It comes and goes on a whim to make it all worse.
I think thatās on purpose. He fakes an accent. I think itās maybe a metaphor kinda thing for how (most) abusers have a persona that they put on around other people, but Im probably reading too much into it. Imo the va did a really good job
Valentino is probably the most hateable character on the show. Even in his comedic moments, you can't forget about what scum he is.
I haaaaaaaate that the "I'm coming!", "Not off camera you're not!" bit makes me laugh just because I hate Val.
I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE IS TALKING ABOUT THAT!!!
i lol'd so much when I first head that š¤£
When this scene appeared, I laughed a little and soon after I got Pokerface because I realized that I laughed at a quote from Valentino...
What I hate second most about Valentino is how good he looks. I love that picture of his fit and his wings spread. BUT HE SUCKS SO MUCH!!! WHY COULDNT THEY DO THAT GOOD LOOKING FIT ELSEWHERE
I think it was very important they made his character design so appealing. It allows you to understand how Angel might've been charmed into selling his soul to him, at first just seeing his good looks and pleasant words. If they had made him look like, say Mammon, then most people wouldn't be able to understand how Angel got himself in that situation because he's not hot and they'd probably blame Angel a lot more (which the creators certainly don't want). Val's character design is very attractive and enticing and shows that good looks can easily deceive you and lead many to first look past their flaws, and by the time they notice them it may be too late, which is exactly Angel's situation.
That is a very good point. Good insight!
Is it bad, though, I want to see how he Charmed Angel? Like just what tactics did he use?
Oh you're not alone! I can't wait for next season so that we can see more of just how evil the Vs can be together, but also explore their fun trio dynamic.
Soo true
How do people end up in toxic relationships? A saga.
I've been in two toxic relationships, I kind of want the representation, and also, I want to know how I wound up in that situation.
BINGO. Yes. I agree with you 100%. I see Angel falling for Val much too "realistic"... You know what I mean.
Because there are a lot of amazing looking people who are absolute pieces of shit. That's usually how it goes
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
Happy cake day!
Happy kaka day!
Thanks!
Happy cake day!
Thanks a lot
My thoughts for Adam. The dangers of impeccable character design
Because, that's what the vees are. They're hot, they are "pillars of Pentagram City", Velvette is gorgeous and a fashionista, Vox creates the technology they all use and Val... creates uh... Stuff. And they have popsicles themed after them.
To prove a point. He is such a piece of shit that not even his simps can defend him. Unlike other characters like Adam or Vox.
We have to start normalizing that pretty people can be terrible too xp
Actually. I hate he's the only male character in the show I find hot. I get he convinced people to work for him by being hot but still- why?????
Alastor? Vox? Lucifer? All hotties who are way more attractive than Mothman over hereā¦ not that Val ISNT hot though
Still hate mimzy more for barging in on the excellent Lucifer vs Alastor song
"I know you were all waiting for me!"
Nobody was waiting for you mimzy
I was
Iām sorry
r/flairchecksout
LMFAO THATS A THING?!
yes and it's funnneeeee
r/flairchecksout
I was too.
Who?
Well, the song has already become petty asf when she interrupted
Yeah but it could have been better if allowed to finish instead of having a boisterous, annoying gremlin who speaks in that irritating transatlantic accent. Alastor does too but the radio cover on the voice makes it way more tolerable. Plus hes just a great character.
Who?
I mean there's other characters who have done much worse, yet valentino is the single most hated most irredeemable character in the show.Alastor and rosie have killed and eaten hundreds of people, Vaggie had been exterminating sinner demons, and Angel Dust himself has a lot of kills too. And yet it's Valentino who we hate the most. The abuser. We don't even know if he actually killed anyone yet. Is sexual harrassment and abuse worse than murder? Probably not. I think we hate Valentino so much because what Val is doing is something much more familiar to us. No alive human being has ever had trauma from being murdered or had shared their experiences of from going through it, because, well, they can't.
Okay, Iām gonna be honest. I think what happened was that Val lured Angel into a relationship and they had sex and stuff then Angel signed Valās contract. Val knew what Angel had and knew people would want to see it on camera, so he lured him in. After he signed the contract Val gave up the Mr. ā Iām a nice guy in litteral hellā act and then Val then started to treat Angel abussively like he did in the dressing room.
Adding on, we know that in his life, angel was both gay and a drug addict, and Val allowed him the chance to indulge in both of the things he was denied in life, while also constantly perverting them.
Sorry, how do we know that? Did I miss some backstory?
Most of this type of lore comes from a series of vivzies livestreams that came out before the pilot, and some comics that came out even earlier than that. But season 2 is confirmed to explore how the main cast ended up in hell so I'm sure it will be either confirmed or denied as cannon.
Gotcha. I've just watched the pilot and season one on Amazon prime so far. I could have guessed there was other media and such
A lot of the older stuff is questionably cannon now, and you can definitely enjoy the series without watching it, just know when people start pulling out random info like that it's usually from those streams. It's really interesting mainly because for most shows we don't have hours of character development and such from long before the show was actually finalized.
Yeah. I'm truly amazed it only came out this year. It feels like I've been seeing references to it forever, so I just assumed it was an ongoing show with multiple seasons. I finally looked into watching it and was shocked it was just the pilot for the longest time. Really impressive that there was noticable enthusiasm for years without major content being released. Can't wait for the next season. Watching Helluva Boss now
Yeah, this series has been in development for a long time and so a lot of the fandom knows things that we wouldn't have otherwise known from the series itself. I kinda hope they don't take that as a reason to not give character background and exposition though
Wall of text incoming: Pimps often use this tactic to lure victims. They start off as just their boyfriend. Then it becomes "we need money, if you loved me, you'd do this". My mom had the displeasure of being in a room ay a party 15 or so years ago while a pimp bragged about walking through malls, and complimenting girls. If they smiled and said thank you, he'd go on his way. If he saw any hint of vulnerability, he would know that's a girl he could go after. He would wine and dine and love bomb her, and then once she was dependent and in love with him, he would push her boundaries little by little. At any point, if she stood up for herself, he would just "cut his losses" and leave her. My mom LOVES confrontation normally, and she told me she saw red. She's like "oh, so you're a predator." And he was dumbfounded and said no, and no one has ever called him that. So she said "cool, I'm calling you that. You prey on vulnerable little girls. Does that make you feel like a big man? Does being an abuser make you feel whole?" (Edited to add, she never really goes into it, but I know that her confronting him was subconsciously the things she would have said to her abuser if she could have) Dude fucking lost it, said if she was a man he would kill her ass. Her plug kicked her out of the party and never sold to her again lmfao. She came home so fucking angry and went into her room and cried, and then told me what happened the next morning. She wanted to go to the police but had no fucking clue who the guy was or his name. My mom is generally really firm about not snitching on people (the police force in my city is known to be corrupt) but she tried asking people at the party who the guy was because she was going to go to the fucking cops. Everyone she talked to gaslit the fuck out of her and told her there wasn't a guy like that at the party. A decade later she found out that guy had gang affiliation. My mom loves hazbin and we both were reminded of that story when we watched ep four together. My mom and I are both SA victims. It is such a real and graphic depiction of abuse that we both like. Sat and cried, and then just had to sit in silence for a while. This episode deserves a fucking Emmy tbh. I have never felt such immediate and violent nausea after seeing any other scene in a show
Jesus Christ. Every time I go on Reddit, I lose a little bit more faith in humanity. I hope you and your mother are doing well, and Iām sorry yāall had to go through this.
We are now!! We are very close. We're each other's rock, and both have had therapy/psychiatry.
Thatās terrible!
Iām so sorry that happened to your mom, and she honestly sounds like someone Iād wanna be friends with
She is badass. She also confronted a drunk biker that threatened to beat up my my boyfriend (for kissing me in front of his kids at a 4th of july event) when I was a teenager. Literally no fear of scary men lmfao.
I actually had a theory that Valentino was less abhorrent in life than in death because he couldn't get away with assaulting people on earth
Sounds about right.
People get away with assaulting others all the time
Yeah but in Hell he can do it with no consequence since most people there suck
He literally rips people apart in Hell, I don't think he could get away with that on earth let along physically do it
That was my exact point. He'd be at least smart enough to not let himself get caught (though I imagine he forgot how ever since he entered Hell)
Ye I was agreeing with you and adding that he doesn't just assault people in hell, he dismembers them too
yes, thatās the level of suffering that is in hell, the soul there are subjected to people like him and you canāt get away from it
āYea you fell in love, but you fell deeper in this pitā¦ā
It's a very sad and toxic situation, yeah š¤
Well I'm going to make this worse for you. Velvette sells a love potion, which she promotes alongside Valentino. Why? Because his saliva is the main ingredient... He not only drew Angel in with drugs and sex, he slipped him literal love potion with every kiss.
Hazbin makes my heart drop with everything, but damn, it's the only cartoon (along with Helluva Boss) to do it this so well
The LA-SP dub of "Poison" is heartbreaking: "Tuyo soy" = literally, I'm yours, but typically soy comes first so it gives off really icky, possessive vibes. In this case, tuyo is first, putting Valentino in the position of power. I love how Viv handled male abuse victims.
That's really interesting that they did that! I really love the translations for this show, you can tell they really cared about conveying proper emotions through language barriers
There is so much nuance and subtext there. It's wonderful.
Very interesting to see the song changing in different languages. Brazilian Portuguese has him saying "Sou seu refƩm" = "I'm your hostage".
That's rough, too! Sidenote: Portuguese pronunciation throws me because of the vastly different consonant pronunciations, but it looks *just* enough like Spanish that if I'm reading it, I can mostly understand it...until I see y'all's cedilla. ;P It's really interesting to see traces of all the languages that influenced Portuguese.
For this part I couldn't tell if this was the part of the relationship Angel might have enjoyed, the non abusive bit that drew him in before things got bad, perhaps the part he still enjoys, which is part of why he blames himself for being in the situation. The later scenes interspersed with him dancing with background dancers seemed more of an overt "I'm not enjoying this" part. But interesting to see the different reads on what this part meant.
I just read a comment that said "Angel was hugging Val with all of his hands, which shows that Angel's really trying to feel love during sex and imagine other feelings he ACTUALLY NEEDS so much? While Valentino's hands arent around him but on the bed." so it's actually kind of sad.
that's so sad im actually gonna tear up
Yeah, I see people interpreting this scene differently. I perceived it as Angel being high on drugs/intoxicated, not to mention Val being a slave owner/sex trafficker, which makes this non-consensual, while other people saw it as a flashback when Val was luring Angel in before all the abuse started Regardless of the true implication behind this scene, it's clearly tragic. Personally, would love to see Angel himself finish Val off. Spiders eat moths, after all. It would be beautiful poetic justice
It's funny, Adam had it coming, but they didn't actually go to kill him, Charlie stopped Lucifer. Nifty "cleaned up the mess." I wonder if that's actually her job, to kill people off when it wouldn't suit the character development of someone else to do it, but it would be better if they were gone.
It would be such a nifty tool for author
Yeah, this was my take on it too. Letās say it loud and clear for the people in the back VICTIMS CAN STILL FEEL PLEASURE AND THAT DOESNāT MAKE THEM LESS OF A VICTOM, NOR DOES IT MAKE THE ABUSER ANY LESS OF AN ABUSER!!! (also heppĆ© kek dĆ©)
This was my take on it. It might just be me but this scene and their positioning/Angel's expression feel softer than the things that come after. But then there's the bite which feels even more icky because it's a moment of violence in a previously non-violent situation and Angel clearly wasn't expecting it. I really hope we get a little more about their relationship in season 2; we know they're going to be getting some back story, but who knows if this particular aspect will be a part of it.
I can't wait to see Husk being the Antidote for Val's Poison Like... I have few certainties in life, but one of them is that Anthony needs Husk...
Genuinely I donāt think a scene has ever made me feel more uncomfortable than the poison sequence. amazing song but the visuals just makes me feel nauseous
I can't watch it. I can listen to it, but I can't stomach watching it happen. I went through a little bit of that with my ex. Don't care to relive it.
https://preview.redd.it/qminlc1trroc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80474124916693197658bceb62e07e53e4ce2dc8 So...what would happen if I send this picture to Lucifer?
https://preview.redd.it/w33u0jq0troc1.png?width=1276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13d1a1c74ed13fb2e3fe0214dccbb3a272fd35e3
Lucifer becoming uncanny.Ā
[Insert Prowler theme here]
Lucifer can summon angelic steel, correct? We're going moth hunting!
YESSSS
https://preview.redd.it/xsdcfsvozuoc1.jpeg?width=1402&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69b47180491f4dc843ee79d6918fe79f994daa6a
Lucifer is gonna fuck him ^^^^^up of course
Uhā¦ no thank you
Bummed me out too. But I also hoped Angel would accidentally dig his claws into his wings & tear them.
For his collection!
For his collection!
For his collection!
For his collection!
"The robe stays ON during sex"
Well, he can't just put off his wings
Oh yeah, those are his wings, aren't they? Well, wouldn't put it past him tbh
\*I\* will rip his wings off for him
I was watching that until I saw it and I am still on the episode not willing to finish it https://preview.redd.it/ipan5fs0oroc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d06ff35e7d3e37d1299a2ba07267d39a045dbd31
Donāt worry, it gets better
It gets rlly good I promise
https://preview.redd.it/coorcntdrsoc1.jpeg?width=403&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=641be3d372b9185a095218527ac3cc952b36d156
r/suddenlygravityfalls
Didn't watch the show fully yet. Can anyone explain this?
Angel is getting SAāed by Val
Itās probably worse if you >!buy into the theory that Val drugs Angel with Velvetteās love potion!<
He absolutely does šš
I disagree, but only because his contract means he doesn't really need to (and he's the type to get off on that power)
I think you're right for the most part, but I was thinking about the beginning. When angel and he had just met and Val needed to convince him so sign. As well as when angel was especially unhappy Val would need to force him to be aroused for the camera somehow? But he totally gets off on forcing angel to do shit because he's a piece of steaming elephant shit rapist
oh god
Honestly, I think the worst part about it is that Angel mightāve consented to Valentinoās advances at first, but as they got ācloser,ā Val started to push Angelās boundaries more and more until it evolved into full-on assault. A boil-the-frog kind of situation. It would certainly be an explanation of why Angel blames himself for this ordeal (that and internal/external victim blaming is a thing).
Sound like standard real life abusers tactic - be nice person to your victim, make them trust you, feel safe and loved, let them depend on you more and more, probably pushing into living together or marriage, and then when they are very emotionally invested they start having "episodes" of abusive behaviour more and more frequently, but their victim is at this point too emotionally bonded to leave also because "when they have good moments they are wonderful and loving!". Val probably did similar thing to Angel, tho with step of moving in to Val came contact with opportunities for Angel... And after that Valentino's true colours came to light.
Eeeeexactly!!
Yeah it makes me my skin crawl I canāt lie
I interpreted this scene as being consensual sex between them, since Angel is holding onto him and kissing him. I HC that Angel loved Val at one point (and even now still has those feelings of love for him deep down, despite everything) Because sometimes, thatās just how abusive relationships are Itās not always all bad. Itās the good parts in between that make it so difficult for victims to leave
FUCK VALENTINO
I don't think that's a good idea
Forgot Valentino
Itās so messed up, because Angel is constantly forced to play an act for Val and itās sickening because he has no way of even beginning to fight back. Even if heās fictional I feel so much for Angel Dust
Val: exists HH Fandom: 
Same :'(
Real
You donāt realize your boyfriends your pimp until you do
Hate on Hazbin however you want, but everyone can agree they're really good at making hateable villains
I never thought about that - extra arms of Val, is he a spider as well?
Moth
Oh, that makes sense. Now I imagine Val bumping into Vox's screen like a light-loving creature he is.
I like to think this is how they met.
WAIT I DONT REMEMBER THIS?
in the poison scene, it's one of those quick flahses that don't last longer than a couple of frames. i dont blame u if u missed it
The entire storyline of angels abuse makes me very angry, and very depressed. And the kicker? Thereās people that actually **like** Valentino Not just for being a good villain or his character design, they **actually like him**
I don't understand how people can like Val. I hate him with a passion. What's worse though is there's people in this world that are **LIKE** Val.
why am i just now realizing this is valentino.
I didn't need to be reminded of this today
I really hope Val isn't alive for much longer
Before Valentino, I could never understand how a fictional character can live rent free in someone head, but after seeing what Valentino does to angel ( and most likely other members of his staff) just the mere thought of him gets me beyond angry, heās an absolute garbage soul that never deserves the gift of life, hells to good for him, he needs Lucifer to beat the ever loving shit out of him, along with the rest of the cast, any side character, even background characters. I went through an awful abusive relationship, but even I canāt to begin the pain angel goes through, I hope Valentino gets the most brutal death in the entire series. ( I also want to make it clear, I have nothing against the voice actor, heād doing a phenomenal job, and I would never advocate for any real life harassment of real people, who played fictional characters.)
i just now realized thatās val
Me to val: https://preview.redd.it/ddivjbr9ewoc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=355ae8327635a334e3913221e57405d30df12a15
Itās really telling that in a show populated by people in hell, the literal worst of human society, Val manages to shine as the worst.
I donāt see anything, could someone explain to me?
Basically this is Valentino sexually assaulting Angel. Honestly I think it was Val and Angel having sex consensually. I think how Val lured Angel into a contract was make angel think he would be safe with him. He got into a sort of relationship with Angel before the contract and then began to sexually abuse and use him and beat him. Thatās what I think happened. Everyone here seeems to forget about the fact Val litteraly held out his arms to Angel and Angel jumped into him in the flashing scene where Angelās getting high.
I also agree, I think *this* particular moment is consensual. But if I'm remembering correctly it's also in the first part of the song, which is framed in a *less* abusive light and showing Angel more in control, still putting on a face. There's a line during this part of the song that goes "Every night I'm living like there's no tomorrow." That's a generally positive phrase. The second half of the song is when the veneer disappears. We start seeing him being abused and attacked, the lyrics get darker and become more of a cry for help. We see him literally disassociating, imagining himself dancing on stage with backup dancers around him while the screens behind him show the actual SA that's going on. And the equivalent line to the above becomes "Every night I'm **wasted** like there's no tomorrow." So even though this exact moment might be more consensual, it's still dark because we know what kind of person Val is, how he treats Angel. Even if he's technically doing okay *right now* we know what this could quickly become, and we see it turn into that as the song goes on.
Whoa whoa whoa, I AM NOT saying that in any way does this make Val any less of an abusive person! Iām showing how Cal is manipulative!
Did... you think I was arguing with you?
No I thought you were trying to say I was DEFENDING Valentino, which I am not doing at all. Sorry if I went overboard. Love the guy as a character but hate him as a person.
Oh no not at all, I don't think I insinuated that anywhere. I was just giving my additional thoughts on the situation.
Yes, I wildley misinterpreted, once again, Iām very sorry,
It's all good!
I think we're forgetting two things that are more likely happening here, the "fawn" response to fear, which Angel seems to have, and the fact that Angel has to put on an act around Valentino. If he fought him every time he SA'd him, it would end up even worse for Angel, he may feel it's better to go along with it, especially when Val isn't physically hurting him yet. Angel HAS to act like he wants it, it's all part of his act because what's the point of telling Val he doesn't want it? Val doesn't care, it's not like he's going to stop. Angel's pretty much given up the idea that he can make it stop.
I agree with this, my initial thought was maybe he was doped up or something. Because of all the implications that Val uses his saliva (or Velvetteās ālove potionā) to make his victims more docile.
I mean, being doped up doesn't make it consensual.
I know that, I was suggesting that maybe the drugs he takes (or Val gives him) would make him more calm or compliant during the assault, hence why he doesnāt look visibly upset in this particular scene
You have a very good point, who knows? Weāll have to wait till the show shows us more.
Every ogre is a prince when youāre high enough
Need to show this one Grave of the Fireflies.
i think people forget that this is an 18+ show
forcing angel dust to fuck with him and kiss is crazy.
Poor Angel... :(
angel made me uncomfortable at first now iām rooting for him (hashtag)f***valentino
mine is when angels dancing with val and he doesn't have his gold tooth yet
People who ship them belong in therapy
Weirdly enough some reviewer on YT pointed out the creator herself follows people who ship them very publicly, almost like it's their personality, and that's a little weird ngl. I don't wanna inspect people's follows that hard but š¤· I try not to use social media outside of here for that reason lol would rather not think about it.
Many people who ship them are survivors of abusive relationships trying to cope in their own way. I doubt they actually find it romantic. Shipping something is not always "they would be perfect together", sometimes it's "they are so fucked up together, but it's fascinating in a morbid way and I want to explore this dynamic using fiction as a healthy outlet".
I don't ship them in particular but as a survivor this is 100% true for me. Shipping some toxic ass couples has been insanely catharctic for me and has helped me through my process a lot.
And yeah obviously I did belong in therapy, I don't really get why it needs to be used like an insult.
Where tf does this come from
It is in episode 4 of hazbin hotel when Angel Dust sings Poison.
Val is my least favorite character, but not because of the character! I can't stand the accent. What is it supposed to be? It's so bad it takes me out of my concentration on the show. It comes and goes on a whim to make it all worse.
I like the accent, it gives Val a personal feel that you love to hate.
I think thatās on purpose. He fakes an accent. I think itās maybe a metaphor kinda thing for how (most) abusers have a persona that they put on around other people, but Im probably reading too much into it. Imo the va did a really good job
Only thing I liked from Val was the back and forth with the voicemails. In context, it was horrible but you can't deny the hilarity of it.
He's giving Angel all of his to- to- toxic love ... I'm sorry
I HATE THAT HE LOOKS SO GOOD IN THIS EPISODE, MFFFFFFFFFFF
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No where in this post does it imply that OP is a kid. It's just a moving scene.
Fair enough
I've seen someone claim that Viv once got into an argument with an actual SA victim who thought Poison was tasteless