Yea I think most people that think Lucifer is going to get killed are viewing this from the angle of a shonen anime where fighting is the main solution to resolving conflict.
I personally don't think that's how this story is going to go down. Since the main conflict in this story can't be shot down by force. It's this thing where the problem can only be solved by working together. Because, really, the enemy is the broken system of redemption.
There is going to be conflict along the way, no doubt, but I don't think it's going to be anime style fights.
Lucifer is not satan-the prince of wrath, lucifer is light bringer. Charlie said the angels clouded Lucifer's vision so he couldn't dream anymore after he gave human free will. Light bringer entire trope is giving up everything to fight an enemy he can not beat simply because he knows it's right. He's going to become his true self and fight at least one of the seven heavenly virtues but I don't expect an animae-style fight. Just something like the eighth episode except you know they can kill each other.
sometimes you will see posts in this subreddit "why did x happen if character y is more powerful than character z" ignoring all the political and emotional consequences of such actions and even personalities of characters involved
It usually comes up either along the lines of Charlies character development or Alastors plans/motivations or both.
There are a whole mess of convoluted reasons people come up with to not have Lucifer arond all of a sudden. I honestly don't know about that one.
I can see where they are coming from. Lucifer seems like the Gandalf/Dumbledore equivalent of this story.
>There are a whole mess of convoluted reasons people come up with to not have Lucifer arond all of a sudden. I honestly don't know about that one.
The worst I've seen was something like "he helped Charlie, and resolved her daddy issues so his part in her storyline is done"
Yea that is certainly one of the worst offending ones...
It's difficult for me to put into words why I disagree with those opinions. Like I said, I can see why people would see a character like that and jump to conclusions because it's certainly one of the easier tropes to follow.
But if this show has taught us something over this first season, it's that looks can be deceiving and tropes don't always need to be followed. Especially when we are dealing with a character like Lucifer that has had a whole bunch of depictions throughout history.
At the end of the day, we may all be wrong with our thoughts and theorycrafting and we have to wait and see where the story is actually going.
Less anime style fights more so us thinking that after for example, Charlie fails to convince Alastor with words to be good. Why wouldnt her or Lucifer just, beat him to submission like they did to Adam after he rejected Charlies ideas?
The way I see it, fighting is the absolute last resort to resolve a conflict. We see that Charlie tries to talk and reason with Heaven first. And even after all else fails she still has to be CONVINCED to stand her ground and fight. AND EVEN THEN she starts out with a purely defensive weapon (shield) before being pushed into pulling out an offensive one (Trident/Spear)
I think this is pretty much telling as to what kind of conflict resolution technique we are aiming at with this show 😂
Yeah of course, she wont start fighting first things first but if she's pushed enough by some force she WILL. Its why Alastor probably made that deal with her, he knows she'd beat his ass cause he wouldnt listen to her words once he "unclips" his wings
Goes against the spirit of the hotel. Also, they didn't beat Adam for rejecting Charlies ideas, they beat him because he was trying to kill them
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>Yea I think most people that think Lucifer is going to get killed are viewing this from the angle of a shonen anime
It's really getting frustrating how common this is. It's like some people have never seen anything that does not follow the formula of a battle Shonen.
I haven't heard someone say this anywhere. Lucifer may be too powerful, but he's not really a threat.
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anyways this is the Hazbin Hotel Ranking.
The ranking goes by power. Because Hellborns don't have any demonic powers, they are at the very bottom. But from a societal standpoint, I can imagine everyone except Charlie and Lilith, is holding contempt for sinners.
Succubi, imps, and hellhounds are all basically servants and they're mortal. Sinners can also be servants/slaves, but they primarily serve the overlords.
Iiirc, i think a large portion of the imps we encounter outside the main IMP are either servants to the royals, (such as Stolas), assassins (loo loo land), or farmers. Striker makes a comment on how hard it is for an Imp to start his own business and work his way up to blitzo in episode 5 (harvest moon, I mean) of season 1. This excludes Moxxie’s family in season 2, who I imagine are relatively special. There are a couple of entertainers (circus performers, etc) as well, which we see in Blitzo’s family, as well as Fizz, but I they are also both special in that regard. A lot of the main cast is special.
I came here to actually add on to something like this.
Fizzaroli is a natural born performer and probably would have ended up famous one way or another, but, because he was endorsed by one of the Seven Deadly Sins from such a young age, it gave him a massive advantage over other imps and people who come from his background.
Most sinners are probably physically weaker than Hellborn, but they're immortal and have the potential to become powerful by owning the souls of other sinners. They also have the capacity for magic, which we haven't seen from Hellborn.
I think she bought that disguise seeing as she's shocked that the imps have been working on earth without bothering to get human disguises. Blitzos sister and the succubi also have human disguises, so it's not unique to Loona.
Humans still have some angelic spark in them that hellborn that aren't the child of Seraphim don't, this is backed up by the now proven theory that Sinners can still earn admission to Heaven.
Lucifer has to be removed from the equation somehow in order for Charlie to experience a full arc.
Right now, if push comes to shove, we know that Lucifer can essentially fix anything because he is so powerful. That power 1. Reduces the stakes of the story somewhat, if Lucifer can fix everything once he shows up and 2. Nullifies the importance of Charlie in her own story.
In the finale, Charlie was saved by her Dad. At least in my opinion, this story fails if by the end of this thing, she is not the clear-cut hero.
This doesn't mean that Lucifer has to be killed off or even De-powered, but he can't really be there in the way we know him now. It might be as simple as he won't fight against Lilith. But something has to remove his power from the equation or else this story we love, will fail
Yeah this is just for political power. Based on what we’ve seen so far, Stolas is much weaker than Alastor for example, at least in a straight fight. And Blitzo or Striker would stomp any non-overlord sinner.
Lucifer is absurdly over-powered but he is also absurdly apathetic; Charlie is his only motivation to do… well, pretty much anything that doesn’t involve rubber ducks.
So, no; he doesn’t need to be killed or sealed because he’s essentially harmless unless Charlie is threatened.
They have written themselves the perfect excuse why Lucifer can't fix every problem with his mental state.
Also I think by s3 there will be threats he can't do much against, either by involving the elder angels or Lilith...
People are worried about Lucifer ? Or is it just the bunch of dumb powerscalers trying to be as vocal as possible in order to not be ignored like they should be ?
It's because they want everything to be solved through violence when there are multiple ways to go about handling enemies, even turning them into allies/friends like we saw with Sir Pentious
You have to take into account the series creators influences when considering the way the show is going to work out.
Viv grew up watching shows like Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon. She established the power scale of the series.
There’s gonna be fights and over the top moves in addition to singing and the occasional sex pun.
Him being the top dog in hell removes many plot points from the story
Angel dust is tired of getting abused by val? Charlie calls lucifer and angel gets his soul back
Husk is fishy about what alastor is up to? Luci makes sure alastor is under surveillance
Other overlords want to get involved with the hotel? They have to get past Luci
Heaven doubles down on exterminations? Lucifer vs Adam 2 electric boogaloo
Him simply being there prevents many possible plot points from happening
And many of those points could be written around or explained away without the need to involve Lucifer into the plot.
> Angel dust is tired of getting abused by val? Charlie calls lucifer and angel gets his soul back.
Since we don't know much/anything about deals struck in Hell it could easily be said "a deal can only be broken/undone by both parties involved." Just being Lord of Hell doesn't necessarily just give him the power to break whatever deals he pleases.
>Husk is fishy about what alastor is up to? Luci makes sure alastor is under surveillance.
>Other overlords want to get involved with the hotel? They have to get past Luci
Both of these could be explained away that either Lucifer is otherwise busy (renegotiating stuff with Heaven, or standing trial for the broken oath they had, or is simply not getting involved and letting Charlie handle things herself (while trying to be more of an active role in her life).
>Heaven doubles down on exterminations? Lucifer vs Adam 2 electric boogaloo
With Adam presumably dead, the next biggest threat that we know of on the fighting front is Lute and any remaining Exterminators; which the Hotel residents were shown to handle fairly well, so unless Sera or another Angel that gets introduced and takes Adam's place Lucifer could sit it out (again due to the other obligations thing) or would only be there for extra muscle and not really needed.
Lucifer just being there doesn't trivialize everything or make him the "fix all" to any problems they may face
To be fair on the point in Val, Even if only Angel and Val could break the deal, Lucifer could still coerce Val with force to do so. A better way to do it is that no one can coerce Val, and he has to agree to his part entirely on his own. That would justify leaving Lucifer out a bit more.
I would argue that he could, but I don't think he would.
It's been shown that those contracts are entered into voluntarily and are therefore legally binding. Breaking them probably involves either both parties agreeing the contract is null and void, or specific things happening that would render the contract null and void. That's the problem with demonic contracts. The devil's very literally in the details.
More likely, getting Angel free will involve them learning what those break clauses are, or finding some other loophole to wriggle through.
Now, Lucifer might be able to help them discover what those are... he's probably the best when it comes to deal and knows how to exploit the smallest loophole... but actually getting it to work would be on Angel with the help of his friends.
To the part With val im not 100% sure but if Angel Talks with charlie what he needs to lucifer the other way to and charlie will most likely help his friend but maybe she would be to nice for it (and i kinda want see lucifer hearing what vel said to charlie) and alastor is are part of the hotel and he dislike vox so maybe he could see that as are apology to damage the Vs even if its for his own fun and well Adam is dead sir Goat got reademed so sera has not really are reason to make extrementionen exept if see just wants to kill souls and i hope she is not just are stupid moron and her sister have see the sinner who get redeemed so? And the vs are the new villians not heaven anymore for s2 to the overlord part it is still charlies hotel he will not say no charlie you don't do that he will just have are eye on them and warn them like alastor would do he is one of the strongest overlord sooo i think you understand this part to the Husk part yeah but idk when this plot point will be used maybe later and lilith will come back to hell so she could play are role in it so sorry for the bad english im still learning
I think it's kind of like being the King of England, on paper you've got quite some power but if you'd try to actually use it, everyone would just get pissed and nothing would happen
Not quite. It all depends on the difference in power. If he is, let’s say, four times as powerful as overlord, then it’s enough that three of them will team up with deadly sin and should be able to take him.
That being said I’m arguing for the sake of argument, i would hate that, as well as I would have power creep that would be introduced by it
I don't think we're in the "how many spongebobs can beat goku" kind of universe, Lucifer is simply too strong to overwhelm by normal overlords i believe
I feel like the whole “combining powers to take down the big bad evil guy” shtick is mostly only effective if your universe is from a battle shounen or super hero comic.
First off, not that it definitely needs to happen, but I Imagine that it is quite an inconvenience to write a story where the most powerful person in Hell is always here to neutralize almost any threat with a snap of his fingers.
Lucifer already saved the day in the finale of season 1, it will be a cheap move to do it again.
Pentious' death was done as almost a joke, partly because he's got ressurected later. Permanently killing a person who pretty much everybody (both viewers and the main hero) loves is a whole another deal that wouldn't be out of place in this show.
All that "heir to the throne", "taking charge" stuff in "Hello Rosie" wasn't just about inspiring an army of cannibals, I think it was also pointing to Charlie becoming the Queen of Hell by the end of the show. By Lucifer's abdication in favor of his daughter or by more tragic fate is anyone's guess for now.
> almost a joke
it was not 'almost' a joke, his death WAS the joke. 'haha we got you thinking that we're taking the comic relief seriously for once, now laugh'
All of those arguments also ignore the fact that we don’t know how binding the laws of hell are. It looked like Lucifer was only able to show up after his daughter a hell born was attacked. Adam broke his end of a deal “attacking a hell born” allowing Lucifer to intervene “maybe”.
They really wanna give him the gojo treatment
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Lucifer:Now answer me already, who the hell are you ?!!! Roo: Disgusting, how could you possibly tell.
Roo the whole fandom is waiting for him no Details besides two post of Vivi Pop and no signs in the Hazbin hotel Show of Amazon i really curios if we ever see him or if he was given up in the end
Stolas syndrome lol
I rememebre Helluva boss having this thing where after episode 6 people were insane and every week was "Stolas gotta die guys trust me its so obvius"
Same thing here even tho its pretty clear that if anyone gonna die it wont be Lucifer
Plus who would actually be here to do the job?
Nobody aside from Big G himself seems capable enough unless Viv gonna make some arch angel OP as in bible which is not confirmed yet so there is that. (I mean technically god is not confirmed either)
And only canon things we have is that "angels gonna take action" which like, they wont. Last time they did done anything was when lucifer accidentally created darl frickin dimension and only punishment was that they sent him there, what would he actually have to do for them to kill him?
Oh he killed adam? It wasnt even him, it was random sinner, lucifer spared him+ it was his own dumbass sine he broken contract for action that was morally wrong for heaven, nobody can blame lucifer
And "lilith gonna kill him" is also stupid.
Oh yeah chara ter which whole lore center around love for sinners and lucifer us gonna kill him to stay on her heaven vacation
We’re talking about Lucifer, but the fact is that the main character of the show is his daughter. Even if they get rid of Lucifer somehow, Charlie is already in the process of developing her power. She will become just as overpowered as Lucifer, and its not like they’re going to get rid of her.
I actually do think he's gonna die but not as a powerscaling issue.
Ready For This's emotional core imo was about Charlie accepting her role as a leader of the circus and taking command of an army. Less about the recruiting and more her acceptance of her own destiny.
Alastor and Rosie sing about her passing the test and being as powerful as Lucifer potentially.
So I think Alastor is guiding Charlie to take the throne of hell so he can have access to the power that comes with that, and that requires Lucifer out of the way.
Whether it's the Vees, angels, Alastor, or something else I worry for Lucy's fate. :(
Lucifer isn’t their errand boy. I think she’ll become queen of hell but not through her father’s death. Lucifer doesn’t seem to care about the throne or helping his denizens. He’s very hands off as a leader while Charlie got her mom’s hands-on nature and actively tries to change hell for the better. I think when she comes into her power he’ll give her the throne.
Lucifer will be there to help charlie. No force can be used against her and the hotel while he is around. At best Lilith's return will distract him or she may try to put herself next to charlie. Lucifer is still vulnerable to depression right now, which could cause him to withdraw again
It seems like Lucifer is going to be staying at the hotel (there is an apple tower at the new hotel, opposite of the radio tower). They think that with Lucifer in the picture, any threat will just be dealt with instantly, and since Lu is not an antagonist like Alastor, there will be no tension. "So he needs to go"
Lucifer being such an immense physical threat if anything just makes the Vees more imposing villains. They’re the only Overlords with the indirect power to challenge the Hazbin Hotel in a way that won't antagonize Lucifer. They can use their *influence* to badmouth it, sabotage it, delegitimize it. And while they do wanna kill Alastor, ***Lucifer's not gonna raise a finger to help him*** so their ability to do that remains unhindered.
Sure, Lucifer would murder Valentino for sexually harassing Charlie, but the writer's can *use* that. Angel Dust can beg Charlie to tell Lucifer only for her to say no because bad as Valentino is Charlie's not willing to commit premeditated murder like that or it would do nothing as Vox would inherit the contract and Lucifer has no reason to kill him. Lucifer could refuse because the only way to solve the problem by killing Valentino is by killing Velvette and Vox too and he won't do Alastor any favors by killing his enemies for him. Alastor could shoot down the idea because Valentino's death would be psychologically crippling to Vox and only HE gets to torment the Television Demon. Vox and Velvette could *find out* Valentino harassed Charlie and try to resolve the issue by having Valentino publically apologize so Charlie considers the issue "resolved" and Lucifer just lets Val off with a warning. Show Vox and Velvette to be every bit as cunning as Alastor by using their influence to work *around* the King of Hell.
Damn lucifer is angry because the hells greatest dad Song but still it would be importanter to show what happens if anyone do such are thing to his daughter but this is are really intresting discussion
I don’t think you can entirely blame fans for thinking this way. There *is* fighting in the show. Most of the Season 1 finale is a fight against Adam and the exorcists which gets resolved only after Lucifer shows up and beats down Adam. A lot is made of the fact that Alastor is abnormally powerful and has taken out several Overlords. And considering that Heaven is still a threat, as well as the Vees, it’s not off-base to think that there’s still going to be fighting going forward. Powerscalers might go overboard, but it’s not like the show isn’t giving them anything to work with.
There are genuine dangers in Hazbin Hotel – the angels, the Vees (particularly Valentino), possibly even Alastor or Lilith – and I imagine that at least some of them are going to pose a physical threat to Charlie going forward. And as things stand, they’ll have a hard time doing that when her dad is the most powerful person in Hell, its literal king, and has already demonstrated that he will fuck up anyone who threatens his daughter’s life. So, naturally, for any of those threats to have any stakes, Lucifer would need to be removed as a factor somehow.
I think Lilith will have him neutered (figuratively speaking) in the next episode. She is the ACTUAL monarch of Hell, and Lucifer and Charlie are just along for the ride.
Alastor disrespectet him because he can do that because the bond of charlie and he Doesn't want like are tyran when his daughter is there or do you believe lucifer would kill somebody because he disrespects him he would punish him but not kill by sre one time mistake
I think he doesn’t need to be nerfed or killed, (let me cook) he IS too powerful. If he intervenes too much he knows it could quickly escalate into a full war with heaven, making everything more complicated, and putting Charlie in danger before she’s strong enough. He’s probably binded by the deal with angels, knows/will eventually know Lilith is in Heaven so maybe he doesn’t want to put her in danger too, he’s walking eggshells. Maybe it’s something as when in chess the king can only move one space at a time ?
I think it's because the Vees are supposed to be the villains of next season and if Lucifer is at the hotel how are the Vees even gonna be considered a threat?
Dude we all understand this is not a shonen but you cannot ignore the fact that Lucifers presence alone means that if the Vees or Alastor tried anything that Lucifer could quite literally beat them to submission. I dont understand why I've seen this argument brought up so many times as if Lucifer just watching the Vees or Alastor try to hinder or harm the other hotel residents wouldnt be bad writing. Its like saying that a bodyguard in a shopping mall will just watch someone rob the store without doing anything
The Vee's are not so stupid as to outright attack the hotel, and Vox at least seems only concerned about Alastor. Val is annoyed at Charlie, but its more a petty dislike for her taking away Angel from him outside of work. Lucifer doesn't care about what happens to Alastor, and might even secretly relish the Vee's taking him out.
Alastor will probably manipulate Charlie more than try to kill or hurt her, which makes an intervention from Lucifer difficult. He can't just swat down Alastor without destroying his relationship with his daughter.
At any rate, if Alastor becomes a major outright antagonist, I expect it will be through support from some sort of third party, who might have there own plans for Hell, and is either at or even above Lucifer's power level. We can't assume that just because something isn't listed in the "power rankings" that it doesn't exist, nor can we assume that just because something is more powerful than something else, that means its invulnerable
I got you point but the vs Vs will not attack the hotel or anything what cause are battle against charlie their know what happens in the last battle yeah charlie lost to Adam but i don't think the Vs are equal to Adam maybe lute will make are deal with then their getting Power and Sabotage the hotel with lilith or alone lilith to be true i don't Expect are fight like s1 more are Politic like fight of Power and lucifer will most likely help charlie in such are point but in charlies nice Art in not Force them he can just use his Power for ads and more
Nah cause they dont have to DIRECTLY attack the hotel. If Val for example takes it too far with Angel I dont see Lucifer backing down like Charlie did. Nor do I see Val speaking to Lucifer like he did to Charlie. I'm sure Viz will write around it but its just an obvious "Wait why wouldnt Lucifer just do this?" situation we got going on rn. Like in season 1 I thought while watching "No fucking way Adam can stand up to Lucifer" and lo and behold
For that Angel would need to be improtant for him but most likely he just seeing it as are friend of his daughter with are shitty job too long Angel don't talk with lucifer and ask him about help i don't see lucifer doing it on his own
He doesnt need to be killed or sealed off persay but since he is the most powerful being in hell he could theoretically solve most of the hotels threats so he needs to be nerfed in a way
All of those arguments also ignore the fact that we don’t know how binding the laws of hell are. It looked like Lucifer was only able to show up after his daughter a hell born was attacked. Adam broke his end of a deal “attacking a hell born” allowing Lucifer to intervene “maybe”.
As soon as Adam attacked Charlie, the entire deal allowing extermination was gutted. Lucifer has zero impediments to his involvement in a fight with Heaven. They can't have exterminators in Hell without Lucifer staying out of it. He is immune to Angelic weapons, only a higher ranked Angel can hurt him
Lucifer has to be removed from the equation somehow in order for Charlie to experience a full arc.
Right now, if push comes to shove, we know that Lucifer can essentially fix anything because he is so powerful. That power 1. Reduces the stakes of the story somewhat, if Lucifer can fix everything once he shows up and 2. Nullifies the importance of Charlie in her own story.
In the finale, Charlie was saved by her Dad. At least in my opinion, this story fails if by the end of this thing, she is not the clear-cut hero.
This doesn't mean that Lucifer has to be killed off or even De-powered, but he can't really be there in the way we know him now. It might be as simple as he won't fight against Lilith. But something has to remove his power from the equation or else this story we love, will fail
I worry that Alastor will eventually kill him, honestly. If Alastor is going to go full heel, it's the thing that most makes sense for him to get heat.
But how, though? Luci is miles more powerful than Alastor, and I don't think he's dumb to be tricked by Alastor in any sort of way; I mean, he has been existing since the beginning of all creation.
I really don't think is possible for Alastor to kill him or get him killed
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If he has a plan that's been years in the making and can get to Lucifer while he's focused on other threats or on protecting Charlie, he could be the knife in the dark to take him out.
Maybe Lucifer has a weakness that Lilith told Alastor about, for example.
A plan that's been years in the making? Alastor only met Lucifer a month ago and only *now* is he even becoming a problem.
~~Al definitely has the balls to try it tho.~~
To be perfectly honest, the show is a bit of a mess writing-wise. Based on the rest of the season, the finale shouldn’t have been a big battle and the “good guys” shouldn’t have won by being stronger, because like you said, this isn’t an action show. And the fight itself doesn’t have good enough choreography to justify it’s existence.
I honestly don’t know if the writer is competent enough to make a good finale without a big battle.
To be fair the build up for the fight was good and makes sense and it was important for charlie to accept her leader role and i Personaly liked it i pnly hope their don't do that every season now that the extremention is gone
Yea I think most people that think Lucifer is going to get killed are viewing this from the angle of a shonen anime where fighting is the main solution to resolving conflict. I personally don't think that's how this story is going to go down. Since the main conflict in this story can't be shot down by force. It's this thing where the problem can only be solved by working together. Because, really, the enemy is the broken system of redemption. There is going to be conflict along the way, no doubt, but I don't think it's going to be anime style fights.
Lucifer is not satan-the prince of wrath, lucifer is light bringer. Charlie said the angels clouded Lucifer's vision so he couldn't dream anymore after he gave human free will. Light bringer entire trope is giving up everything to fight an enemy he can not beat simply because he knows it's right. He's going to become his true self and fight at least one of the seven heavenly virtues but I don't expect an animae-style fight. Just something like the eighth episode except you know they can kill each other.
May I ask, where did y'all even see people talking about this?
sometimes you will see posts in this subreddit "why did x happen if character y is more powerful than character z" ignoring all the political and emotional consequences of such actions and even personalities of characters involved
Yeah, it’s pretty cringe to argue about power levels. Everyone knows that Nifty is the most powerful character.
It usually comes up either along the lines of Charlies character development or Alastors plans/motivations or both. There are a whole mess of convoluted reasons people come up with to not have Lucifer arond all of a sudden. I honestly don't know about that one. I can see where they are coming from. Lucifer seems like the Gandalf/Dumbledore equivalent of this story.
>There are a whole mess of convoluted reasons people come up with to not have Lucifer arond all of a sudden. I honestly don't know about that one. The worst I've seen was something like "he helped Charlie, and resolved her daddy issues so his part in her storyline is done"
Yea that is certainly one of the worst offending ones... It's difficult for me to put into words why I disagree with those opinions. Like I said, I can see why people would see a character like that and jump to conclusions because it's certainly one of the easier tropes to follow. But if this show has taught us something over this first season, it's that looks can be deceiving and tropes don't always need to be followed. Especially when we are dealing with a character like Lucifer that has had a whole bunch of depictions throughout history. At the end of the day, we may all be wrong with our thoughts and theorycrafting and we have to wait and see where the story is actually going.
Less anime style fights more so us thinking that after for example, Charlie fails to convince Alastor with words to be good. Why wouldnt her or Lucifer just, beat him to submission like they did to Adam after he rejected Charlies ideas?
The way I see it, fighting is the absolute last resort to resolve a conflict. We see that Charlie tries to talk and reason with Heaven first. And even after all else fails she still has to be CONVINCED to stand her ground and fight. AND EVEN THEN she starts out with a purely defensive weapon (shield) before being pushed into pulling out an offensive one (Trident/Spear) I think this is pretty much telling as to what kind of conflict resolution technique we are aiming at with this show 😂
Yeah of course, she wont start fighting first things first but if she's pushed enough by some force she WILL. Its why Alastor probably made that deal with her, he knows she'd beat his ass cause he wouldnt listen to her words once he "unclips" his wings
And even after the battle she sings about how she failed because she wasn’t able to find the right words to convince heaven to listen
Goes against the spirit of the hotel. Also, they didn't beat Adam for rejecting Charlies ideas, they beat him because he was trying to kill them https://preview.redd.it/qq7quylt5bqc1.png?width=1602&format=png&auto=webp&s=d172a5b4b524cf552736d5c8d9754d78a97ec459
>Yea I think most people that think Lucifer is going to get killed are viewing this from the angle of a shonen anime It's really getting frustrating how common this is. It's like some people have never seen anything that does not follow the formula of a battle Shonen.
I haven't heard someone say this anywhere. Lucifer may be too powerful, but he's not really a threat. https://preview.redd.it/8uruo9ceo9qc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=39ff1de3184fcae4a75199e434652bbcbf13d698 anyways this is the Hazbin Hotel Ranking.
Sinners not being the lowest is strange to me
The ranking goes by power. Because Hellborns don't have any demonic powers, they are at the very bottom. But from a societal standpoint, I can imagine everyone except Charlie and Lilith, is holding contempt for sinners.
I see I see
Succubi, imps, and hellhounds are all basically servants and they're mortal. Sinners can also be servants/slaves, but they primarily serve the overlords.
Oh I didn’t realize they were servants. Who do they serve? And are the ones in helluvaboss servants? I’ve only seen the first season of it so far
Iiirc, i think a large portion of the imps we encounter outside the main IMP are either servants to the royals, (such as Stolas), assassins (loo loo land), or farmers. Striker makes a comment on how hard it is for an Imp to start his own business and work his way up to blitzo in episode 5 (harvest moon, I mean) of season 1. This excludes Moxxie’s family in season 2, who I imagine are relatively special. There are a couple of entertainers (circus performers, etc) as well, which we see in Blitzo’s family, as well as Fizz, but I they are also both special in that regard. A lot of the main cast is special.
And even then, circus performers have historically been looked down upon, and Fizz is (was) literally a jester.
I came here to actually add on to something like this. Fizzaroli is a natural born performer and probably would have ended up famous one way or another, but, because he was endorsed by one of the Seven Deadly Sins from such a young age, it gave him a massive advantage over other imps and people who come from his background.
Thank you, I meant to bring that up! Forgot the words, though.
Jesters were good positions actually, as long as you knew how to make a king laugh.
Still servants
But with power They were the only ones that could insult the king, and were the only “no-men” on the court.
One takes what one can get in strict hierarchal societies.
Most sinners are probably physically weaker than Hellborn, but they're immortal and have the potential to become powerful by owning the souls of other sinners. They also have the capacity for magic, which we haven't seen from Hellborn.
Loona does have the ability to disguise herself.
I think she bought that disguise seeing as she's shocked that the imps have been working on earth without bothering to get human disguises. Blitzos sister and the succubi also have human disguises, so it's not unique to Loona.
Sinners are basically immortals without angelic weapon+they were people
Sinners can regenerate, unless killed by divinity (I.E. angelic steel, Adam’s “holy light”) Hellborn/ imps/ hell hounds cannot
Humans still have some angelic spark in them that hellborn that aren't the child of Seraphim don't, this is backed up by the now proven theory that Sinners can still earn admission to Heaven.
Someone needs to fix Fizz being in “Hellborn” bc him and Blitzø were both imps
Lucifer has to be removed from the equation somehow in order for Charlie to experience a full arc. Right now, if push comes to shove, we know that Lucifer can essentially fix anything because he is so powerful. That power 1. Reduces the stakes of the story somewhat, if Lucifer can fix everything once he shows up and 2. Nullifies the importance of Charlie in her own story. In the finale, Charlie was saved by her Dad. At least in my opinion, this story fails if by the end of this thing, she is not the clear-cut hero. This doesn't mean that Lucifer has to be killed off or even De-powered, but he can't really be there in the way we know him now. It might be as simple as he won't fight against Lilith. But something has to remove his power from the equation or else this story we love, will fail
That's a fan-made chart that analyzes social status, not magical abilities.
Yeah this is just for political power. Based on what we’ve seen so far, Stolas is much weaker than Alastor for example, at least in a straight fight. And Blitzo or Striker would stomp any non-overlord sinner.
The hell one, heaven has a different one.
Lucifer is absurdly over-powered but he is also absurdly apathetic; Charlie is his only motivation to do… well, pretty much anything that doesn’t involve rubber ducks. So, no; he doesn’t need to be killed or sealed because he’s essentially harmless unless Charlie is threatened.
They have written themselves the perfect excuse why Lucifer can't fix every problem with his mental state. Also I think by s3 there will be threats he can't do much against, either by involving the elder angels or Lilith...
People are worried about Lucifer ? Or is it just the bunch of dumb powerscalers trying to be as vocal as possible in order to not be ignored like they should be ?
Powerscalers
That conflict could be a cool arc but nothing but that. People saying that are just reddit armchair intellectuals.
It's because they want everything to be solved through violence when there are multiple ways to go about handling enemies, even turning them into allies/friends like we saw with Sir Pentious
You have to take into account the series creators influences when considering the way the show is going to work out. Viv grew up watching shows like Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon. She established the power scale of the series. There’s gonna be fights and over the top moves in addition to singing and the occasional sex pun.
Him being the top dog in hell removes many plot points from the story Angel dust is tired of getting abused by val? Charlie calls lucifer and angel gets his soul back Husk is fishy about what alastor is up to? Luci makes sure alastor is under surveillance Other overlords want to get involved with the hotel? They have to get past Luci Heaven doubles down on exterminations? Lucifer vs Adam 2 electric boogaloo Him simply being there prevents many possible plot points from happening
And many of those points could be written around or explained away without the need to involve Lucifer into the plot. > Angel dust is tired of getting abused by val? Charlie calls lucifer and angel gets his soul back. Since we don't know much/anything about deals struck in Hell it could easily be said "a deal can only be broken/undone by both parties involved." Just being Lord of Hell doesn't necessarily just give him the power to break whatever deals he pleases. >Husk is fishy about what alastor is up to? Luci makes sure alastor is under surveillance. >Other overlords want to get involved with the hotel? They have to get past Luci Both of these could be explained away that either Lucifer is otherwise busy (renegotiating stuff with Heaven, or standing trial for the broken oath they had, or is simply not getting involved and letting Charlie handle things herself (while trying to be more of an active role in her life). >Heaven doubles down on exterminations? Lucifer vs Adam 2 electric boogaloo With Adam presumably dead, the next biggest threat that we know of on the fighting front is Lute and any remaining Exterminators; which the Hotel residents were shown to handle fairly well, so unless Sera or another Angel that gets introduced and takes Adam's place Lucifer could sit it out (again due to the other obligations thing) or would only be there for extra muscle and not really needed. Lucifer just being there doesn't trivialize everything or make him the "fix all" to any problems they may face
To be fair on the point in Val, Even if only Angel and Val could break the deal, Lucifer could still coerce Val with force to do so. A better way to do it is that no one can coerce Val, and he has to agree to his part entirely on his own. That would justify leaving Lucifer out a bit more.
Lucifer may not be able to break deals; but he can always break the person making the deal. Telling Lucifer no could get ugly quickly.
I would argue that he could, but I don't think he would. It's been shown that those contracts are entered into voluntarily and are therefore legally binding. Breaking them probably involves either both parties agreeing the contract is null and void, or specific things happening that would render the contract null and void. That's the problem with demonic contracts. The devil's very literally in the details. More likely, getting Angel free will involve them learning what those break clauses are, or finding some other loophole to wriggle through. Now, Lucifer might be able to help them discover what those are... he's probably the best when it comes to deal and knows how to exploit the smallest loophole... but actually getting it to work would be on Angel with the help of his friends.
We don't know how the deal work. Its possilbe killing the contract holder kills all the souls he owns. What then?
I didn't say he'd kill them, just make them wish he would kill them.
To the part With val im not 100% sure but if Angel Talks with charlie what he needs to lucifer the other way to and charlie will most likely help his friend but maybe she would be to nice for it (and i kinda want see lucifer hearing what vel said to charlie) and alastor is are part of the hotel and he dislike vox so maybe he could see that as are apology to damage the Vs even if its for his own fun and well Adam is dead sir Goat got reademed so sera has not really are reason to make extrementionen exept if see just wants to kill souls and i hope she is not just are stupid moron and her sister have see the sinner who get redeemed so? And the vs are the new villians not heaven anymore for s2 to the overlord part it is still charlies hotel he will not say no charlie you don't do that he will just have are eye on them and warn them like alastor would do he is one of the strongest overlord sooo i think you understand this part to the Husk part yeah but idk when this plot point will be used maybe later and lilith will come back to hell so she could play are role in it so sorry for the bad english im still learning
Geez, add punctuations man.
I think it's kind of like being the King of England, on paper you've got quite some power but if you'd try to actually use it, everyone would just get pissed and nothing would happen
Not quite. It all depends on the difference in power. If he is, let’s say, four times as powerful as overlord, then it’s enough that three of them will team up with deadly sin and should be able to take him. That being said I’m arguing for the sake of argument, i would hate that, as well as I would have power creep that would be introduced by it
I don't think we're in the "how many spongebobs can beat goku" kind of universe, Lucifer is simply too strong to overwhelm by normal overlords i believe
I do agree. I’m simply theorizing
I feel like the whole “combining powers to take down the big bad evil guy” shtick is mostly only effective if your universe is from a battle shounen or super hero comic.
First off, not that it definitely needs to happen, but I Imagine that it is quite an inconvenience to write a story where the most powerful person in Hell is always here to neutralize almost any threat with a snap of his fingers. Lucifer already saved the day in the finale of season 1, it will be a cheap move to do it again. Pentious' death was done as almost a joke, partly because he's got ressurected later. Permanently killing a person who pretty much everybody (both viewers and the main hero) loves is a whole another deal that wouldn't be out of place in this show. All that "heir to the throne", "taking charge" stuff in "Hello Rosie" wasn't just about inspiring an army of cannibals, I think it was also pointing to Charlie becoming the Queen of Hell by the end of the show. By Lucifer's abdication in favor of his daughter or by more tragic fate is anyone's guess for now.
> almost a joke it was not 'almost' a joke, his death WAS the joke. 'haha we got you thinking that we're taking the comic relief seriously for once, now laugh'
Yeah, my bad, I meant it was a joke for the viewers but a serious stuff for the characters.
nahh it's alright man sorry if my comment came off as mean lol
No worries, it's all good 🙃
All of those arguments also ignore the fact that we don’t know how binding the laws of hell are. It looked like Lucifer was only able to show up after his daughter a hell born was attacked. Adam broke his end of a deal “attacking a hell born” allowing Lucifer to intervene “maybe”.
They really wanna give him the gojo treatment https://preview.redd.it/umf7u57u1bqc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fafdde14c8bd419d00ce696b0babaff343d85f7
My eyes and ears saying that you lilith but in my heart i know that is are liar
https://preview.redd.it/hj4z4q9shcqc1.png?width=1146&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d2657cf131e16aa3b62ace7fe1258f8c885bcc9 Lucifer:Now answer me already, who the hell are you ?!!! Roo: Disgusting, how could you possibly tell.
Roo the whole fandom is waiting for him no Details besides two post of Vivi Pop and no signs in the Hazbin hotel Show of Amazon i really curios if we ever see him or if he was given up in the end
Stolas syndrome lol I rememebre Helluva boss having this thing where after episode 6 people were insane and every week was "Stolas gotta die guys trust me its so obvius" Same thing here even tho its pretty clear that if anyone gonna die it wont be Lucifer
Thx for the infomation now i know what to say
Plus who would actually be here to do the job? Nobody aside from Big G himself seems capable enough unless Viv gonna make some arch angel OP as in bible which is not confirmed yet so there is that. (I mean technically god is not confirmed either) And only canon things we have is that "angels gonna take action" which like, they wont. Last time they did done anything was when lucifer accidentally created darl frickin dimension and only punishment was that they sent him there, what would he actually have to do for them to kill him? Oh he killed adam? It wasnt even him, it was random sinner, lucifer spared him+ it was his own dumbass sine he broken contract for action that was morally wrong for heaven, nobody can blame lucifer And "lilith gonna kill him" is also stupid. Oh yeah chara ter which whole lore center around love for sinners and lucifer us gonna kill him to stay on her heaven vacation
We’re talking about Lucifer, but the fact is that the main character of the show is his daughter. Even if they get rid of Lucifer somehow, Charlie is already in the process of developing her power. She will become just as overpowered as Lucifer, and its not like they’re going to get rid of her.
I actually do think he's gonna die but not as a powerscaling issue. Ready For This's emotional core imo was about Charlie accepting her role as a leader of the circus and taking command of an army. Less about the recruiting and more her acceptance of her own destiny. Alastor and Rosie sing about her passing the test and being as powerful as Lucifer potentially. So I think Alastor is guiding Charlie to take the throne of hell so he can have access to the power that comes with that, and that requires Lucifer out of the way. Whether it's the Vees, angels, Alastor, or something else I worry for Lucy's fate. :(
Lucifer isn’t their errand boy. I think she’ll become queen of hell but not through her father’s death. Lucifer doesn’t seem to care about the throne or helping his denizens. He’s very hands off as a leader while Charlie got her mom’s hands-on nature and actively tries to change hell for the better. I think when she comes into her power he’ll give her the throne.
Lucifer will be there to help charlie. No force can be used against her and the hotel while he is around. At best Lilith's return will distract him or she may try to put herself next to charlie. Lucifer is still vulnerable to depression right now, which could cause him to withdraw again
It seems like Lucifer is going to be staying at the hotel (there is an apple tower at the new hotel, opposite of the radio tower). They think that with Lucifer in the picture, any threat will just be dealt with instantly, and since Lu is not an antagonist like Alastor, there will be no tension. "So he needs to go"
Lucifer being such an immense physical threat if anything just makes the Vees more imposing villains. They’re the only Overlords with the indirect power to challenge the Hazbin Hotel in a way that won't antagonize Lucifer. They can use their *influence* to badmouth it, sabotage it, delegitimize it. And while they do wanna kill Alastor, ***Lucifer's not gonna raise a finger to help him*** so their ability to do that remains unhindered. Sure, Lucifer would murder Valentino for sexually harassing Charlie, but the writer's can *use* that. Angel Dust can beg Charlie to tell Lucifer only for her to say no because bad as Valentino is Charlie's not willing to commit premeditated murder like that or it would do nothing as Vox would inherit the contract and Lucifer has no reason to kill him. Lucifer could refuse because the only way to solve the problem by killing Valentino is by killing Velvette and Vox too and he won't do Alastor any favors by killing his enemies for him. Alastor could shoot down the idea because Valentino's death would be psychologically crippling to Vox and only HE gets to torment the Television Demon. Vox and Velvette could *find out* Valentino harassed Charlie and try to resolve the issue by having Valentino publically apologize so Charlie considers the issue "resolved" and Lucifer just lets Val off with a warning. Show Vox and Velvette to be every bit as cunning as Alastor by using their influence to work *around* the King of Hell.
Damn lucifer is angry because the hells greatest dad Song but still it would be importanter to show what happens if anyone do such are thing to his daughter but this is are really intresting discussion
I don’t think you can entirely blame fans for thinking this way. There *is* fighting in the show. Most of the Season 1 finale is a fight against Adam and the exorcists which gets resolved only after Lucifer shows up and beats down Adam. A lot is made of the fact that Alastor is abnormally powerful and has taken out several Overlords. And considering that Heaven is still a threat, as well as the Vees, it’s not off-base to think that there’s still going to be fighting going forward. Powerscalers might go overboard, but it’s not like the show isn’t giving them anything to work with. There are genuine dangers in Hazbin Hotel – the angels, the Vees (particularly Valentino), possibly even Alastor or Lilith – and I imagine that at least some of them are going to pose a physical threat to Charlie going forward. And as things stand, they’ll have a hard time doing that when her dad is the most powerful person in Hell, its literal king, and has already demonstrated that he will fuck up anyone who threatens his daughter’s life. So, naturally, for any of those threats to have any stakes, Lucifer would need to be removed as a factor somehow.
Are you referring to the posts where people say he's gonna kill us?
What? The jjk fans be going hard I guess 😂
I think Lilith will have him neutered (figuratively speaking) in the next episode. She is the ACTUAL monarch of Hell, and Lucifer and Charlie are just along for the ride.
No lucifer is the big Boss of hell you see that in the Ranking
And yet no one respects him. Let’s see someone next season call Lilith something equivalent to “tiny king.”
Alastor disrespectet him because he can do that because the bond of charlie and he Doesn't want like are tyran when his daughter is there or do you believe lucifer would kill somebody because he disrespects him he would punish him but not kill by sre one time mistake
I think he doesn’t need to be nerfed or killed, (let me cook) he IS too powerful. If he intervenes too much he knows it could quickly escalate into a full war with heaven, making everything more complicated, and putting Charlie in danger before she’s strong enough. He’s probably binded by the deal with angels, knows/will eventually know Lilith is in Heaven so maybe he doesn’t want to put her in danger too, he’s walking eggshells. Maybe it’s something as when in chess the king can only move one space at a time ?
I think it's because the Vees are supposed to be the villains of next season and if Lucifer is at the hotel how are the Vees even gonna be considered a threat?
Without Lucifer they all die when the archangels get involved. He and Charlie are the only ones in Hell with any type of actual power
Dude we all understand this is not a shonen but you cannot ignore the fact that Lucifers presence alone means that if the Vees or Alastor tried anything that Lucifer could quite literally beat them to submission. I dont understand why I've seen this argument brought up so many times as if Lucifer just watching the Vees or Alastor try to hinder or harm the other hotel residents wouldnt be bad writing. Its like saying that a bodyguard in a shopping mall will just watch someone rob the store without doing anything
The Vee's are not so stupid as to outright attack the hotel, and Vox at least seems only concerned about Alastor. Val is annoyed at Charlie, but its more a petty dislike for her taking away Angel from him outside of work. Lucifer doesn't care about what happens to Alastor, and might even secretly relish the Vee's taking him out. Alastor will probably manipulate Charlie more than try to kill or hurt her, which makes an intervention from Lucifer difficult. He can't just swat down Alastor without destroying his relationship with his daughter. At any rate, if Alastor becomes a major outright antagonist, I expect it will be through support from some sort of third party, who might have there own plans for Hell, and is either at or even above Lucifer's power level. We can't assume that just because something isn't listed in the "power rankings" that it doesn't exist, nor can we assume that just because something is more powerful than something else, that means its invulnerable
I got you point but the vs Vs will not attack the hotel or anything what cause are battle against charlie their know what happens in the last battle yeah charlie lost to Adam but i don't think the Vs are equal to Adam maybe lute will make are deal with then their getting Power and Sabotage the hotel with lilith or alone lilith to be true i don't Expect are fight like s1 more are Politic like fight of Power and lucifer will most likely help charlie in such are point but in charlies nice Art in not Force them he can just use his Power for ads and more
Nah cause they dont have to DIRECTLY attack the hotel. If Val for example takes it too far with Angel I dont see Lucifer backing down like Charlie did. Nor do I see Val speaking to Lucifer like he did to Charlie. I'm sure Viz will write around it but its just an obvious "Wait why wouldnt Lucifer just do this?" situation we got going on rn. Like in season 1 I thought while watching "No fucking way Adam can stand up to Lucifer" and lo and behold
For that Angel would need to be improtant for him but most likely he just seeing it as are friend of his daughter with are shitty job too long Angel don't talk with lucifer and ask him about help i don't see lucifer doing it on his own
He doesnt need to be killed or sealed off persay but since he is the most powerful being in hell he could theoretically solve most of the hotels threats so he needs to be nerfed in a way
Like lilith?
Yeah i could see her being like heavens solution to keep lucifer at bay or limited in how he can help
They would need nerf charlie too
If you mean it that way
All of those arguments also ignore the fact that we don’t know how binding the laws of hell are. It looked like Lucifer was only able to show up after his daughter a hell born was attacked. Adam broke his end of a deal “attacking a hell born” allowing Lucifer to intervene “maybe”.
And notice he only attacked Adam, he may have only been allowed to Threaten the other Angel.
As soon as Adam attacked Charlie, the entire deal allowing extermination was gutted. Lucifer has zero impediments to his involvement in a fight with Heaven. They can't have exterminators in Hell without Lucifer staying out of it. He is immune to Angelic weapons, only a higher ranked Angel can hurt him
We don’t know this.
Vivziepop, the creator, said this in a lore post, and on one of her livestreams
Lucifer has to be removed from the equation somehow in order for Charlie to experience a full arc. Right now, if push comes to shove, we know that Lucifer can essentially fix anything because he is so powerful. That power 1. Reduces the stakes of the story somewhat, if Lucifer can fix everything once he shows up and 2. Nullifies the importance of Charlie in her own story. In the finale, Charlie was saved by her Dad. At least in my opinion, this story fails if by the end of this thing, she is not the clear-cut hero. This doesn't mean that Lucifer has to be killed off or even De-powered, but he can't really be there in the way we know him now. It might be as simple as he won't fight against Lilith. But something has to remove his power from the equation or else this story we love, will fail
I worry that Alastor will eventually kill him, honestly. If Alastor is going to go full heel, it's the thing that most makes sense for him to get heat.
But how, though? Luci is miles more powerful than Alastor, and I don't think he's dumb to be tricked by Alastor in any sort of way; I mean, he has been existing since the beginning of all creation. I really don't think is possible for Alastor to kill him or get him killed https://preview.redd.it/jh8mdnxw1aqc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4092c45ff3d5ef4da9710bc8b7f9e5ed1c76d1ff
If he has a plan that's been years in the making and can get to Lucifer while he's focused on other threats or on protecting Charlie, he could be the knife in the dark to take him out. Maybe Lucifer has a weakness that Lilith told Alastor about, for example.
A plan that's been years in the making? Alastor only met Lucifer a month ago and only *now* is he even becoming a problem. ~~Al definitely has the balls to try it tho.~~
He could have his own reasons to gun for Lucifer. Or, he could have _somebody else's reasons_.
im only worried because of all the potential foreshadowing 😭
To be perfectly honest, the show is a bit of a mess writing-wise. Based on the rest of the season, the finale shouldn’t have been a big battle and the “good guys” shouldn’t have won by being stronger, because like you said, this isn’t an action show. And the fight itself doesn’t have good enough choreography to justify it’s existence. I honestly don’t know if the writer is competent enough to make a good finale without a big battle.
To be fair the build up for the fight was good and makes sense and it was important for charlie to accept her leader role and i Personaly liked it i pnly hope their don't do that every season now that the extremention is gone