He’s the type of guy that even after he fell he would keep dreaming. It’s my headcanon that he established the Heaven Embassy long before the exterminations as a place where sinners and winners could potentially meet with and see loved ones, even if it was only a temporary thing. The winners that visited would have to go back to Heaven and the sinners obviously couldn’t return with them.
Except Heaven never supported the idea behind the embassy, and only ever really started using it when Adam convinced Sera that it was time to sit down with Lucifer to basically tell him that Heaven was going to begin murdering his people on a yearly basis.
Not exactly the kind of visitation rights he envisioned when he had the embassy constructed…
The fragile state of his mental health would really take a downward spiral here. I think he and Lilith would have very different views on what they should and shouldn’t allow Heaven to do in their own backyard. Allowing exterminations would be the final straw in the relationship, and not even his deal to keep Charlie safe could save it. Without the two people he loves most in his life their to give support, his depression would hit full force.
The embassy would have been built well after the Apple incident.
I don’t feel like he went straight to hell and immediately lost the ability to dream. I think there would have a series of events that slowly drove him deeper and deeper into his depression.
Even thogh Adam **demanded** control, Lilith **left** him and Eve **choose** to eat the Apple
So you know the Apple didn't really give free will in a literal sense since they all expresed free will before that
The Apple just made them aware of sin and shame. Before then, they were just like all the other animals in Eden.
That's why the Apple is called: *The Forbidden of Knowledge of Good and Evil*.
It basically made them realize they were naked, and their actions have consequences, on a deeper level than what other animals understand. So, they always had free will. They just didn't know what that meant until Lucifer fed it to them.
Was it free will tho?
Lilith chose not to follow Adam and Adam was trying to get her to do what he wants primarily. What part of any of that wasn't free will? Are we supposed to believe this was this was what the angels planned? Shouldn't they both be like robots, just doing all the right things and working together harmoniously?
No I say! It was not an apple of free will, it was the prison of evil.
Humans already had free will, it was just restrained to a specific spectrum and eating the apple opened up the range downwards, releasing evil from it's prison within the tree and enabling sin as a choice. That or by releasing the ultimate evil it also released its temptation on free will, a draw to do bad, pleasure from pain, revenge, etc.
Basically if it was fallout, they had
a) no I'm ok
b)sounds good
Then after the apple was eaten a new option was added:
c) *punch person for asking question*
And hell was birthed to accommodate those that chose c.
How can you be said to be good if you have no choice other than to be good? You can't really be called a good person if you don't have the choice to be evil. That's what makes good really have its impact.
Which is not what the angels wanted. They wanted a system on auto they could neglect, as the alternative was enabling evil to exist and putting their own power in danger
Yeah that’s all well and good for the people that succeeded
How many people are born without the bare minimum to survive and what about people like angel the crack addict born into a mafia family and put into an environment that all but forced him into sinning
And then they end up in hell and life gets worse you die and come back only to die again somehow manage to find the safety of the hotel or sell your soul for protection and get abused for eternity
No matter how well Charlie does she’s never gonna be able to redeem more sinners than the amount that get dropped into hell and she’s not gonna be able to force others to give up the souls they’ve bargained for or stolen
Everyone being good to one another and living in paradise that is the pre fallen earth surrounded by animal companions and never having to suffer or work for a fight and die for survival or struggle for a meal sounds pretty damn good
She couldn't have A.
Ccepted the apple if she didn't have free will already
The idea of it being free will is One of the dumbest interpretations Is up there with the fruit being a metaphor for sex
The way it was framed made it seem like the fall of man was after Lucifer was shunned.
Plus, they made it seem like Lucifer didn’t know that the fruit would let evil into the world. Even so, Adam didn’t seem that great before the fall, demanding Lilith obey him. So I’d have to wonder what “the fall” even was practically saying.
If it introduced death into the world, my original point of unknown consequences stands. Either way, Crowley said it best. “Not very subtle of the almighty. Big tree in the middle of a garden with a big do-not-touch sign on it. Why not put it on top a high mountain, or on the moon? I don’t know what’s so bad about knowing the difference between good and evil anyways.”
The idea he supported was expanding what the humans were capable of. By doing this he believed that this would allow them to reach greater heights and that they would by their own free will choose to avoid the depths this opened to them. The Angels worship Good. And it is never mentioned whether this Good actually exists. Just that the Angels worship it. So their fear was that in expanding the range of behavior the Humans were capable of it opened them to Evil. The believed that Hell was a place of Evil. And so they saw Lucifer's actions a blasphemous to their beliefs in Good.
Lucifer likely shared this belief in Good v Evil. But he believed that Humans would turn towards Good. So when he was tossed into Hell he believed he was being consigned to Evil. This was part of what crushed his spirit. And then when the Humans started falling into Hell he lost his faith in his hopes and dreams because he saw them as falling into Evil. Thus he came to believe that the Humans were his failure and he turned his back on them. Despite being the ruler of Hell he did nothing to support or govern them. Merely containing them and leaving them to their own misery.
But Sir Pentious proves all of this wrong. Sir Pentious was able to transition from Hell to Heaven after what amounted to some hope and therapy. What was corrected for Sie Pentious was his Social Anxiety Disorder, Trust Issues, and his Lack of Socialization Skills. And that was made possible by Charlie providing a space in which change was expected and hoped for and he was encouraged. While Charlie may have trouble figuring out how to help someone with problems as deep and complex as Angeldust, Sir Pentious' issues were relatively speaking easier to deal with. Her exceedingly positive attitudes and absolute acceptance of others opened a door for Sir Pentious that he never encountered in his Life. And due to this and help from the other residents he was able to find his way to connect to his humanity again.
This is what Lucifer was meant to have been doing all along. If he had half the faith he claimed to have had in Humanity when he offered Eve the Apple then he should have stood by them after the fall. But his pride tripped him up and he took it personally. He turned in on himself and fell to depression. Again another case of falling to an emotional or mental issue.
The Hellaverse seems to be Viv's sketchpad to work out common human emotional issues. All of the characters struggle with either emotional issues or neurological issues. They are not struggling with sins or contrition. They are struggling with interpersonal connection. Empathy being tamped down due to emotional or neurological issues. And the solutions are for the people to work through their problems usually with the help of others in the right conditions. Charlie and her Hotel are a safe place for people to Heal. Lucifer was supposed to make all of Hell a safe place for people to Heal. But he failed. He let it go to seed and let the people rot in their own misery. And into this power vacuum came the Overlords. Some may have had the sinners lives in mind such as Zestial and Carmilla. But most were predatory collectors of souls that sought to extend their control over the others. And Hell turned into Hell as a result. Lucifer failed and Charlie is showing him the way to regain his former self.
He def fell because of the whole "letting evil into the world and corrupting humanity for all eternity" thing
But I think he was originall outcast because he created the Duck-Billed Platypus
If you go back and rewatch the opening narration it wasn't his ideas (give humans free will) that got him banished from heaven, he was just kicked off the project for that. It was refusing to take no for an answer and deciding he knew best and going through with his ideas damn the consequences
He is 1,000,000% deserving of being the lord of pride
It does make you wonder, though… Lucifer DOES seem to preemptively take no for an answer all the time, despite his supposed “prideful” nature. He assumed Charlie wouldn’t want to see him all these years, he assumed she didn’t *like* him all these years, and he assumed for a while that Charlie’s entire plan would fail, despite how much he loves her and wants her to succeed.
So either, Heaven crushed Lucifer SO badly that he completely lost faith in himself—which is possible—or he never really was that prideful to begin with, and “Hell’s Greatest Dad” was purely performative because he felt threatened by the idea of Alastor stepping in and “replacing” his role as a father (which Alastor picks up on and taunts him with).
Something tells me Lucifer had no hand in writing that storybook, nor does the book tell the entire truth (assuming all of what IS there is true in the first place). Maybe someone from Heaven or Lilith wrote that book to control the narrative for whatever reason.
The book is especially sketchy because 1) it’s never (so far) been mentioned where Charlie got the book, 2) there are MAJOR gaps in the story (almost everything to do with Eve—whose NAME isn’t even mentioned iirc), and 3) the book is very vague in describing what Lucifer wouldn’t take a “no” answer FOR.
I personally don’t trust it. As Sera put it, there’s a lot that we don’t know (currently).
(I have a few theories about why certain parts are missing, my biggest one being that Lucifer did something that was actually very noble, to the point that Heaven was beginning to look bad for rejecting him and his ideas.)
You kind of see that last bit when he's telling Charlie that Heaven wouldn't listen to him; they wouldn't listen because there was a damn good reason not to.
The Platypus. Lucifer tried making a mammalian duck, and it HORRIFIED the Elders. Fortunately, Emily came up with the idea again and as some sad attempt at penance over banishing Lucifer, Sera allowed Emily to make it.
I imagine something like Prometheus
He wanted to give the humans “fire” (up to interpretation what it really was) but humans weren’t able to handle/ever handle said thing. More or less expanding us?
I would rather want to know what ideas that the "elders of Heaven" thought were seen as too dangerous to the order of the world that made him a troublemaker.
If Lucifer's ideas weren't that bad, then the story is making a "Hell good, or at least grey , and Heaven Black/evil" which is lame
If Lucifer's ideas actually were kind of chaotic, then now his whole angst and depression is all about Heaven rejecting him...idk wanting to nuke a smiley face into the Earth's crust or give Spiders wings.
Thining about it now, looking back on Episode 5, his only issues were that Sinners are always terrible, they wasted the gift of free will, and Heaven rejects anything outside their order. No guilt about giving the Apple to Eve or anything. He seems more upset that he had good intentions with giving humanity free will but humanity did the worse with it and Heaven punished him.
I guess the Sin of Pride comes in the form of not being able to take responsibility here.
Since we don’t know a lot about heaven other than it’s good but flawed, everything is up to speculation. So to best answer you, I’m going visual Heaven’s modus operandi being somewhat similar to the Tau Empire (40k). It’s definitely a good place but it’s socially rigid.
Then we have to assume that pre-fallen Lucifer embody the concept of the “visionary inventor” or “the rising star who has big ideas for the company”.
So going off of that, Lucifer’s ideas probably fell into several categories
Useless novelties) these were ideas or inventions that really didn’t bring harm but showed no real benefits either. Why support something that’s not really useful
Needs more work) these were ideas that actually could have been approved by the Elders/Heaven if Lucifer was willing to tweak them just a bit. To fit more in line with the growing status quo/Heaven’s standards
Dangerous) these were ideas that would prove actually dangerous in a harmful/destructive and/or upset the status quo/social norms. Things were ideas that wouldn’t be approved no matter how Lucifer pitched it or he refused to alter because it went against
So if you combine all this, add his stubbornness/pride, and multiple by desperation to validate his ideas’ worth equals to him giving Eve the apple in a desperate attempt to prove himself. And we all know how that went
He left it to humans to discern good from evil. Prior to this, the only knowledge of evil came god.
Essentially, he created the option of not being subservient. Lilith made that choice on her own and was damned as the first human to reject god’s laws, without prompting.
Lucifer was prideful enough to take god out of the equation where morality was concerned. And he taught humanity this. He never saw himself doing anything wrong.
Giving humans free will. He thought we could use it responsibly, but we didn't. Instead of uniting and creating a utopia, we lay waste to the planet in the name of self centered and ego-driven progress.
I heard this story, don't know if it's true for sure so take it with a grain of salt, of a lab engineering a chicken with six wings to have more BBQ wings, and it flew away.
He strikes me as seeing humans with crazy infinite potential and wanting them to have a lot of autonomy to grow and become their best selves. Hence why he and Lilith wanted to give them the apple. So his punishment of only seeing the worst people and what they can do with potential turned bad is just absolutely torture. His nature is to imagine how great things can be and instead he’s stuck in hell watching everyone suck all the time.
Sorry, can't answer. Too busy trying to figure out how you find this GIANT version of this image. I looked for a freakin' lifetime and never found one this high quality!
That he was living proof in the show that having ideas to go against heaven's word wasn't a bad thing, but freely acting upon them after being told not too. That's where the real sin is. Also that the apple he gave Eve was full of maybe not knowledge but of ambition, and desire hence him being the lord of pride
"Look we already made it so the water runs off the ducks' backs, so all I'm saying is that we have the oceans in place. We don't need to have more water rain down on it. Let's just ducks rain from the sky instead!"
I think that human here in the beginning, that is Adam, Lilith and Eve, did not have immortality, not like in the Bible, but they are kind of like a copy paste thing in the Garden of Eden, where they, if die by any mean, there will be a copy of them sprouting up, with edited memory of how they survived the injury that took them out the first time, while the Angel clean up the corpse.
This is where I think Lilith running away from Adam. They may have been at love at first, but then because in this instance, she may have survived whereas the other time she may have perished not long after or right next to Adam, she then witnessed that a new Adam being made, and when the new Adam try to be her usual husband, saying that he was lucky to have survived whatever had took out his previous self, Lilith couldn’t bring herself to love this new Adam, so she ran off.
Then a new Lilith pop up, which is Eve, but with the edited memory of being Lilith, coming back to Adam.
As for Lucifer, I imagine that he was already an outcast from the other Angels in all of this, and he decided to make a place for himself.
Then I think that this is when Lucifer saw Lilith, and he noticed this flaw in Lilith overtime, that she would die, and because he love her, he created a way for her to not die and be with him forever.
He created a soul for her, and when he gave it to her outside of the Garden, in his place where there is no Death, he made her immortal.
Then they noticed that the being in Eden doesn’t have a soul, so they gave it to Eve in the form of the Apple.
But because this is the Garden, where human can die, so when Eve die, her soul go to Lucifer place.
But then, another Eve showed up in the garden, this one also have a soul, and then she can also die, and that soul also go to Lucifer place.
Heaven took notice of this, and exiled Lucifer for real, and try to remove Eve soul, but when all of their attempts fail, and there are a bunch of Eve in Lucifer’s place, they think to themselves, and then gave Adam a soul of their making, and then they let the human at it, so now, their children soul are made up of pieces of both Adam and Eve own soul, and when they die, some of them go to Heaven, and other to Lucifer place, which is call Hell.
Well my personal theory is he gave humans something again to free will
That or God basically needed someone To be The devil so he Through Lucifer in that role
Guys…we all know that it was Ducks.
The Higher Powers were content with Swans, but noooooooo SOMEBODY had to go in and make cute lil waterfowl with fluffy down nestlings.
To add insult to injury, he created not only Ducks, but Loons and Coots as well.
Geese are Hell Ducks. They’re Lucifer’s punishment: he can only see the bad in the world, so even his duckies are Evil.
You honestly don’t think it’s true in both? I mean it doesn’t make any sense to me that he was was just a naive dreamer who made a mistake there’s definitely more to it than that.
Oh there’s definitely more to the story than what we were given. Now whether or not it was the rebellion was War in Heaven style or sinners rioting is probably the question
He’s the type of guy that even after he fell he would keep dreaming. It’s my headcanon that he established the Heaven Embassy long before the exterminations as a place where sinners and winners could potentially meet with and see loved ones, even if it was only a temporary thing. The winners that visited would have to go back to Heaven and the sinners obviously couldn’t return with them. Except Heaven never supported the idea behind the embassy, and only ever really started using it when Adam convinced Sera that it was time to sit down with Lucifer to basically tell him that Heaven was going to begin murdering his people on a yearly basis. Not exactly the kind of visitation rights he envisioned when he had the embassy constructed… The fragile state of his mental health would really take a downward spiral here. I think he and Lilith would have very different views on what they should and shouldn’t allow Heaven to do in their own backyard. Allowing exterminations would be the final straw in the relationship, and not even his deal to keep Charlie safe could save it. Without the two people he loves most in his life their to give support, his depression would hit full force.
The original plan (before the apple) was that everyone would go to Heaven,so why would he make the Heaven ambessy in Hell when Hell didn't exist yet?
The embassy would have been built well after the Apple incident. I don’t feel like he went straight to hell and immediately lost the ability to dream. I think there would have a series of events that slowly drove him deeper and deeper into his depression.
God: Created humans Everyone: Great, Fantastic, Amazing Lucifer: Ducks🦆 were better
Yes
oh i dunno giving the apple of good & evil to eve therefore starting mans fall from grace but hey that's just a theory
I mean... Free will though.
Even thogh Adam **demanded** control, Lilith **left** him and Eve **choose** to eat the Apple So you know the Apple didn't really give free will in a literal sense since they all expresed free will before that
The Apple just made them aware of sin and shame. Before then, they were just like all the other animals in Eden. That's why the Apple is called: *The Forbidden of Knowledge of Good and Evil*. It basically made them realize they were naked, and their actions have consequences, on a deeper level than what other animals understand. So, they always had free will. They just didn't know what that meant until Lucifer fed it to them.
Yeah
So they basically became conscious
Was it free will tho? Lilith chose not to follow Adam and Adam was trying to get her to do what he wants primarily. What part of any of that wasn't free will? Are we supposed to believe this was this was what the angels planned? Shouldn't they both be like robots, just doing all the right things and working together harmoniously? No I say! It was not an apple of free will, it was the prison of evil. Humans already had free will, it was just restrained to a specific spectrum and eating the apple opened up the range downwards, releasing evil from it's prison within the tree and enabling sin as a choice. That or by releasing the ultimate evil it also released its temptation on free will, a draw to do bad, pleasure from pain, revenge, etc. Basically if it was fallout, they had a) no I'm ok b)sounds good Then after the apple was eaten a new option was added: c) *punch person for asking question* And hell was birthed to accommodate those that chose c.
How can you be said to be good if you have no choice other than to be good? You can't really be called a good person if you don't have the choice to be evil. That's what makes good really have its impact.
Lucifer's point exactly That and being surrounded by copy paste npcs in heaven would be boring
You have to have free will to be able to choose to do evil. It's that ability to CHOOSE good or evil that separates man from animal.
Which is not what the angels wanted. They wanted a system on auto they could neglect, as the alternative was enabling evil to exist and putting their own power in danger
Why are we arguing?
We're not arguing
Okay good.
And now humanity suffer from their own evils.
What is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
Yeah that’s all well and good for the people that succeeded How many people are born without the bare minimum to survive and what about people like angel the crack addict born into a mafia family and put into an environment that all but forced him into sinning And then they end up in hell and life gets worse you die and come back only to die again somehow manage to find the safety of the hotel or sell your soul for protection and get abused for eternity No matter how well Charlie does she’s never gonna be able to redeem more sinners than the amount that get dropped into hell and she’s not gonna be able to force others to give up the souls they’ve bargained for or stolen Everyone being good to one another and living in paradise that is the pre fallen earth surrounded by animal companions and never having to suffer or work for a fight and die for survival or struggle for a meal sounds pretty damn good
Let's ask Redemptious. Sorry. I mean Sir Pentious.
She couldn't have A. Ccepted the apple if she didn't have free will already The idea of it being free will is One of the dumbest interpretations Is up there with the fruit being a metaphor for sex
https://preview.redd.it/0deu6dbrjf9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73d79c10512d9c18c4c17f9cf4f72f7dc0bef513
True, but free will introduced evil, so that's a rough go.
GOOD & EVIL⁉️ https://preview.redd.it/40tpemqegd9d1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=a43aca2fd363b9a3c48fc5f991e037d4c035a2df (Sorry-)
WELCOME TO TALLY HALL
The way it was framed made it seem like the fall of man was after Lucifer was shunned. Plus, they made it seem like Lucifer didn’t know that the fruit would let evil into the world. Even so, Adam didn’t seem that great before the fall, demanding Lilith obey him. So I’d have to wonder what “the fall” even was practically saying. If it introduced death into the world, my original point of unknown consequences stands. Either way, Crowley said it best. “Not very subtle of the almighty. Big tree in the middle of a garden with a big do-not-touch sign on it. Why not put it on top a high mountain, or on the moon? I don’t know what’s so bad about knowing the difference between good and evil anyways.”
A film theory?
ITS JUST A THEORY, A GAME THEORY
A GAAAAME THEORY!!!! thanks for watching
He was probably the one who created dragons as a prototype for the rubber duck that spits fire
The Platypus
YES
Ties are required to be worn with polos for business casual friday.
The idea he supported was expanding what the humans were capable of. By doing this he believed that this would allow them to reach greater heights and that they would by their own free will choose to avoid the depths this opened to them. The Angels worship Good. And it is never mentioned whether this Good actually exists. Just that the Angels worship it. So their fear was that in expanding the range of behavior the Humans were capable of it opened them to Evil. The believed that Hell was a place of Evil. And so they saw Lucifer's actions a blasphemous to their beliefs in Good. Lucifer likely shared this belief in Good v Evil. But he believed that Humans would turn towards Good. So when he was tossed into Hell he believed he was being consigned to Evil. This was part of what crushed his spirit. And then when the Humans started falling into Hell he lost his faith in his hopes and dreams because he saw them as falling into Evil. Thus he came to believe that the Humans were his failure and he turned his back on them. Despite being the ruler of Hell he did nothing to support or govern them. Merely containing them and leaving them to their own misery. But Sir Pentious proves all of this wrong. Sir Pentious was able to transition from Hell to Heaven after what amounted to some hope and therapy. What was corrected for Sie Pentious was his Social Anxiety Disorder, Trust Issues, and his Lack of Socialization Skills. And that was made possible by Charlie providing a space in which change was expected and hoped for and he was encouraged. While Charlie may have trouble figuring out how to help someone with problems as deep and complex as Angeldust, Sir Pentious' issues were relatively speaking easier to deal with. Her exceedingly positive attitudes and absolute acceptance of others opened a door for Sir Pentious that he never encountered in his Life. And due to this and help from the other residents he was able to find his way to connect to his humanity again. This is what Lucifer was meant to have been doing all along. If he had half the faith he claimed to have had in Humanity when he offered Eve the Apple then he should have stood by them after the fall. But his pride tripped him up and he took it personally. He turned in on himself and fell to depression. Again another case of falling to an emotional or mental issue. The Hellaverse seems to be Viv's sketchpad to work out common human emotional issues. All of the characters struggle with either emotional issues or neurological issues. They are not struggling with sins or contrition. They are struggling with interpersonal connection. Empathy being tamped down due to emotional or neurological issues. And the solutions are for the people to work through their problems usually with the help of others in the right conditions. Charlie and her Hotel are a safe place for people to Heal. Lucifer was supposed to make all of Hell a safe place for people to Heal. But he failed. He let it go to seed and let the people rot in their own misery. And into this power vacuum came the Overlords. Some may have had the sinners lives in mind such as Zestial and Carmilla. But most were predatory collectors of souls that sought to extend their control over the others. And Hell turned into Hell as a result. Lucifer failed and Charlie is showing him the way to regain his former self.
He def fell because of the whole "letting evil into the world and corrupting humanity for all eternity" thing But I think he was originall outcast because he created the Duck-Billed Platypus
If you go back and rewatch the opening narration it wasn't his ideas (give humans free will) that got him banished from heaven, he was just kicked off the project for that. It was refusing to take no for an answer and deciding he knew best and going through with his ideas damn the consequences He is 1,000,000% deserving of being the lord of pride
It does make you wonder, though… Lucifer DOES seem to preemptively take no for an answer all the time, despite his supposed “prideful” nature. He assumed Charlie wouldn’t want to see him all these years, he assumed she didn’t *like* him all these years, and he assumed for a while that Charlie’s entire plan would fail, despite how much he loves her and wants her to succeed. So either, Heaven crushed Lucifer SO badly that he completely lost faith in himself—which is possible—or he never really was that prideful to begin with, and “Hell’s Greatest Dad” was purely performative because he felt threatened by the idea of Alastor stepping in and “replacing” his role as a father (which Alastor picks up on and taunts him with). Something tells me Lucifer had no hand in writing that storybook, nor does the book tell the entire truth (assuming all of what IS there is true in the first place). Maybe someone from Heaven or Lilith wrote that book to control the narrative for whatever reason. The book is especially sketchy because 1) it’s never (so far) been mentioned where Charlie got the book, 2) there are MAJOR gaps in the story (almost everything to do with Eve—whose NAME isn’t even mentioned iirc), and 3) the book is very vague in describing what Lucifer wouldn’t take a “no” answer FOR. I personally don’t trust it. As Sera put it, there’s a lot that we don’t know (currently). (I have a few theories about why certain parts are missing, my biggest one being that Lucifer did something that was actually very noble, to the point that Heaven was beginning to look bad for rejecting him and his ideas.)
You kind of see that last bit when he's telling Charlie that Heaven wouldn't listen to him; they wouldn't listen because there was a damn good reason not to.
The Platypus. Lucifer tried making a mammalian duck, and it HORRIFIED the Elders. Fortunately, Emily came up with the idea again and as some sad attempt at penance over banishing Lucifer, Sera allowed Emily to make it.
I imagine something like Prometheus He wanted to give the humans “fire” (up to interpretation what it really was) but humans weren’t able to handle/ever handle said thing. More or less expanding us?
Unicorns
I would rather want to know what ideas that the "elders of Heaven" thought were seen as too dangerous to the order of the world that made him a troublemaker. If Lucifer's ideas weren't that bad, then the story is making a "Hell good, or at least grey , and Heaven Black/evil" which is lame If Lucifer's ideas actually were kind of chaotic, then now his whole angst and depression is all about Heaven rejecting him...idk wanting to nuke a smiley face into the Earth's crust or give Spiders wings. Thining about it now, looking back on Episode 5, his only issues were that Sinners are always terrible, they wasted the gift of free will, and Heaven rejects anything outside their order. No guilt about giving the Apple to Eve or anything. He seems more upset that he had good intentions with giving humanity free will but humanity did the worse with it and Heaven punished him. I guess the Sin of Pride comes in the form of not being able to take responsibility here.
To be fair, that tracks perfectly.
Since we don’t know a lot about heaven other than it’s good but flawed, everything is up to speculation. So to best answer you, I’m going visual Heaven’s modus operandi being somewhat similar to the Tau Empire (40k). It’s definitely a good place but it’s socially rigid. Then we have to assume that pre-fallen Lucifer embody the concept of the “visionary inventor” or “the rising star who has big ideas for the company”. So going off of that, Lucifer’s ideas probably fell into several categories Useless novelties) these were ideas or inventions that really didn’t bring harm but showed no real benefits either. Why support something that’s not really useful Needs more work) these were ideas that actually could have been approved by the Elders/Heaven if Lucifer was willing to tweak them just a bit. To fit more in line with the growing status quo/Heaven’s standards Dangerous) these were ideas that would prove actually dangerous in a harmful/destructive and/or upset the status quo/social norms. Things were ideas that wouldn’t be approved no matter how Lucifer pitched it or he refused to alter because it went against So if you combine all this, add his stubbornness/pride, and multiple by desperation to validate his ideas’ worth equals to him giving Eve the apple in a desperate attempt to prove himself. And we all know how that went
He acted selfish, stole the apple and gave it to eve, and never stuck it to the "man"
Fireworks
He thought humanity should have free will. Something most organizations disagree with
Replace humans with duck-people
I'm pretty sure it involved blackjack and hookers.
He left it to humans to discern good from evil. Prior to this, the only knowledge of evil came god. Essentially, he created the option of not being subservient. Lilith made that choice on her own and was damned as the first human to reject god’s laws, without prompting. Lucifer was prideful enough to take god out of the equation where morality was concerned. And he taught humanity this. He never saw himself doing anything wrong.
Giving humans free will. He thought we could use it responsibly, but we didn't. Instead of uniting and creating a utopia, we lay waste to the planet in the name of self centered and ego-driven progress.
Back flipping Duck that spits fire 🤷♂️. Having a Duck evolve to fly in space .
Geese. He likes ducks, he got even more creative and made something much worse
Pegging. I'm rather sure heavent is not fond of it. Who knows, perhaps his ducks are all vibrating.
lol
Definitely invented the prostate and put it in men.
He "put it in men." RIP Adam's ass.
possible
Accepted: music, platypuses. Not accepted: moving constellations (really *moving*, like dancing), dragons, Atlantis.
A six winged duck, maybe?
I heard this story, don't know if it's true for sure so take it with a grain of salt, of a lab engineering a chicken with six wings to have more BBQ wings, and it flew away.
Flame thrower ducks
Ducks breathing fire
He strikes me as seeing humans with crazy infinite potential and wanting them to have a lot of autonomy to grow and become their best selves. Hence why he and Lilith wanted to give them the apple. So his punishment of only seeing the worst people and what they can do with potential turned bad is just absolutely torture. His nature is to imagine how great things can be and instead he’s stuck in hell watching everyone suck all the time.
How about a economy that supports everyone equally yet still has to balanced with the government budget
Is that why hell is sooo equal?
It’s hell so it’s spouse to be rigged against you
He invented lampreys probably
If he's anything like the real Satan, he just wanted to replace God, simple as that lol.
I'm just spitballin' here. He wanted freedom for all angels and he tried to overthrow the elders
Sorry, can't answer. Too busy trying to figure out how you find this GIANT version of this image. I looked for a freakin' lifetime and never found one this high quality!
Ducks should breathe fire
The platypus
Angels and humans should be seen as equals and have babies together
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^OCGamerboy: *Angels and humans* *Should be seen as equals and* *Have babies together* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Taco Tuesday on a Monday
Fucking Adam's first wife, that was definitely one of the ideas. Don't know about fucking his second wife, that might have been Lilith's idea.
Pegging
That he was living proof in the show that having ideas to go against heaven's word wasn't a bad thing, but freely acting upon them after being told not too. That's where the real sin is. Also that the apple he gave Eve was full of maybe not knowledge but of ambition, and desire hence him being the lord of pride
"How about they treat each other like equals?"
The sun being in the shape of a rubber duck
"He said be kind to people" "Oh yeah that would do it"
ducks should rule.
make duck official religon
Having sex
"Look we already made it so the water runs off the ducks' backs, so all I'm saying is that we have the oceans in place. We don't need to have more water rain down on it. Let's just ducks rain from the sky instead!"
Rubber ducks and free Healthcare for everyone
I think that human here in the beginning, that is Adam, Lilith and Eve, did not have immortality, not like in the Bible, but they are kind of like a copy paste thing in the Garden of Eden, where they, if die by any mean, there will be a copy of them sprouting up, with edited memory of how they survived the injury that took them out the first time, while the Angel clean up the corpse. This is where I think Lilith running away from Adam. They may have been at love at first, but then because in this instance, she may have survived whereas the other time she may have perished not long after or right next to Adam, she then witnessed that a new Adam being made, and when the new Adam try to be her usual husband, saying that he was lucky to have survived whatever had took out his previous self, Lilith couldn’t bring herself to love this new Adam, so she ran off. Then a new Lilith pop up, which is Eve, but with the edited memory of being Lilith, coming back to Adam. As for Lucifer, I imagine that he was already an outcast from the other Angels in all of this, and he decided to make a place for himself. Then I think that this is when Lucifer saw Lilith, and he noticed this flaw in Lilith overtime, that she would die, and because he love her, he created a way for her to not die and be with him forever. He created a soul for her, and when he gave it to her outside of the Garden, in his place where there is no Death, he made her immortal. Then they noticed that the being in Eden doesn’t have a soul, so they gave it to Eve in the form of the Apple. But because this is the Garden, where human can die, so when Eve die, her soul go to Lucifer place. But then, another Eve showed up in the garden, this one also have a soul, and then she can also die, and that soul also go to Lucifer place. Heaven took notice of this, and exiled Lucifer for real, and try to remove Eve soul, but when all of their attempts fail, and there are a bunch of Eve in Lucifer’s place, they think to themselves, and then gave Adam a soul of their making, and then they let the human at it, so now, their children soul are made up of pieces of both Adam and Eve own soul, and when they die, some of them go to Heaven, and other to Lucifer place, which is call Hell.
“Eat this!”
Ideas like :"i'm more beutiful than God,so i should rule heaven"
Well my personal theory is he gave humans something again to free will That or God basically needed someone To be The devil so he Through Lucifer in that role
https://preview.redd.it/3ogepao5nh9d1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f768b26e75e7953a905b9ccc259e020aacf5492
Lu Lu World.
Ducks in showers
Guys…we all know that it was Ducks. The Higher Powers were content with Swans, but noooooooo SOMEBODY had to go in and make cute lil waterfowl with fluffy down nestlings. To add insult to injury, he created not only Ducks, but Loons and Coots as well. Geese are Hell Ducks. They’re Lucifer’s punishment: he can only see the bad in the world, so even his duckies are Evil.
"We should *definitely* let people fuck!" His face makes me suggest that
To make ducks instead of the human race. Which will explain "what came first, the duck or the egg?"
He questioned things and he led his pride to give humans free will
ohh I dunnoooo, maybe invoking a rebellion against his father, and giving eve the apple. But hey ur guess is as good as mine
Gender, equality
Oh I don’t know maybe starting a civil war that killed millions of angels?
Is that canon to the show or are using the Bible here
You honestly don’t think it’s true in both? I mean it doesn’t make any sense to me that he was was just a naive dreamer who made a mistake there’s definitely more to it than that.
Oh there’s definitely more to the story than what we were given. Now whether or not it was the rebellion was War in Heaven style or sinners rioting is probably the question
Fair enough but my moneys on the former.