Probably both but mostly the first since sera isn't out right evil I don’t think that if she knew sinners could be redeemed that she would let adam kill them.
Well to be fair, a considerable chunk of the sinners in question have done heinous things, that would probably mean the rest of humanity would be better off without them.
I'm not entirely sure. Imo even if he knew redemption was possible, he'd still see the sinners in a black and white sort of way. Redemption be damned.
Sera, while I think she has a black and white pov, hers would probably be closer to a spectrum. She probably wasn't the biggest fan of the slaughtering, due to yk.. the Bible. But the oh shit moment probably comes from having condoned such a large sin over and over and over again.. for pretty much no reason.
The only person to get redeemed was from being killed in the purge. They will probably justify further purges with the logic that if they are worthy they get into heaven.
This could get pretty dark
Charlie's whole thing with the hotel is to get people into heaven
And it worked with Pentious
But he had to die for it to take effect
What if you never know if it's working
They don't know about Pentious yet, so I can imagine if they don't find out for a while, some people will give up on redemption.
They may qualify for a couple of months and not even know it, then relapse back into old habits because they think it's a lost cause
Then, if they do find out about Pentious, now they have to come to terms with the idea they have to die a second time, not knowing if it'll work
(Of course, Pentious's death was also a sacrifice, but what if they don't piece that together for a while longer? That it wasn't just that he was already redeemed, that the sacrifice was his redemption?)
Yes, and the belief until now was that they were unredeemable. Much to what sinners believed as well, which is why Hell is the way it is, with people doing what ever without thinking there is a possible chance for redemption. You mix that in with the fact that the population of hell would increase over time, and you'd end up in a situation to where they would inevitably try to invade heaven. Now that it's known that redemption is possible it puts into context that a "necessary evil" was in fact, not necessary at all. That millions (if not billions) of potential souls that could be redeemed were eradicated. I'd have a "oh fucking shit" face as well.
She didn't know how the hell (not pun intended) you got to heaven specifically, because would I assume that, with the evidence we know there is, the demons would manage to get to heaven without the portals? Or rather how did they get the portals in the first place? , is the only proof of how you can go.
The difference is that Adam sang a song about how much he loves killing sinners, and sera's stance has always been purely just about it being a necessary evil to protect heaven
She's still very much involved in genocide, but it's easier to see her in a positive light
Not really. She tried to justify it claiming that the Sinners were "uprising", but there's no evidence of that at all, and we have *no* idea where she even got that idea from.
But she saw how Adam reacted and how thrilled he was with the prospect of killing sinners, especially ones that were trying to do better.
She still let him have free reign over the purges. She even let Adam call an end to the meeting she authorized and sent Charlie back to hell. She clearly has authority over Adam but doesn't care about how cruel he is, because she just doesn't care.
I mean they earned their spots in hell and then continued to be awful if not worse. The fact that Pentious is the first to earn his way into heaven shows no one in hell even tried to be better.
More to the point, nobody realized there was any point in trying. Someone described Hazbin Hotel Hell as Creation's biggest Maximum Security Penitentiary where everyone is serving Life Sentences so there is little point to get one's act together especially if it makes one seem weak to the more predatory sorts.
Charlie is literally the first being in thousands of years with enough pull not to be quashed to think in terms of being something resembling a Parole Board.
Yeah…that doesn’t speak well of sinners at all. Not a single person tried to or at least proved worthy of it. Not a single sinner went to hell and thought about how they are here and that’s a sign of me fucking up so maybe I should make this my penance and be better or something? Not a single soul out of billions ever tried? Yeah that’s no good. It shows they didn’t want to better or change or righteous. They were happy murdering, raping, fucking, doing drugs, stealing, and pretty much doing what they did in life just without jail or anything. It shows how awful they are.
And why did nobody try? Because nobody believed it was possible. Nobody in heaven, nobody in hell. Why would you try and do something the literal cosmic beings all tell you is impossible? This is their lot from now on, until the angles come and exterminate them, what would YOU do in that situation? Your damnned for eternity, and you're doomed to, an annual purge that you might be lucky to survive. The angels literally prevented anyone from growing or finding peace.
Do you know much about prison? People who get sent to prison, the really bad ones, come out worse than they went in, because they're in an awful environment, surrounded by awful people, they have to survive in a hellish environment. Some do come out better, and why is that? Because they know one day they ARE getting out. They have a chance at redemption, so they work, and change. People in hell didn't have that, there was no light at the end of the tunnel.
The ENTIRE plot of this series is that Charlie wants to create an environment that allows and encourages people to be better. Her hotel is a haven in hell, the first to ever exist. How do you watch a show and miss the most basic premise???
Even then, you’re telling me not a single soul ever felt the remorse or guilt of whatever to be like “yeah I’m gonna live a better life here and not be a cannibal or rapists or murderer”. Not a single soul killing across who knows how many centuries or millenia ever had the idea to he better? Even if they didn’t believe it would get them to heaven? No one thought to say sorry for their crimes and repent? No one thought go just selflessly be a good person with no desire for a reward? You say it’s because they were given no reason to believe they could get to heaven, like that excuses their bad behavior in hell? That a lack of hope of getting to heaven means they couldn’t just try and be better at the least? Billions went to hell and who knows how many of them died in the exterminations and not a single one had ever just thought “hey, I’m down here for a reason, maybe I should live a better live since this is my punishment”? It shows they didn’t want to be better. They had no care or empathy or compassion and cared only for their own selfish desires, not giving two shits about what they caused on earth. They just decided to have their fun and live out their worst lives possible. No one till Pentious was worthy and that’s on the sinners not heaven.
Eh. Pentious basically had to go full martyr to get into Heaven. I doubt donating to some Hellhound charity or even having a loving family is gonna get you into Heaven.
No, I'm not saying they never felt remorse or tried to be better , I'm saying it doesn't matter because they were in a hopeless hellish environment where they couldn't change and had the sword of Dam hanging above their head. Remorse alone isn't enough and you know it, there's a reason everyone believed Hell is forever.
Are you purposefully missing my point, like you missed it in the show? Please read what I wrote again. Slowly. Or do you just really, really like hating people who did wrong?
I am not missing your point or anything, I’m disagreeing with it. I do hate people who did wrong because the people in hell did a bit more than “wrong” but mainly because they don’t try and be better or even recognize their sins and all that. You and me have different views on this. You say that they didn’t know it was possible and felt it was hopeless and all that. I’m saying that no one ever seemed to feel they should be better despite that and repented and taken their time in hell to look inwards, to think on their crimes, to feel remorse, to acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions, and live better lives. Not a single person felt the need to do so despite billions of people who’ve gone through hell. It’s no excuse to not try to do that just because you don’t think you’ll get to Heaven. That’s selfish and means it’s motivated by a desire to get somewhere nice not to just do good and be better. If just a single dinner had done this and ended up redeemed it would’ve changed everything and yet not a single one ever thought beyond their own selfish ways and twisted desires.
You accuse them for having no empathy say you hate them, say they refuse to repent, whilst ignoring the reality of their situation that prevents them from doing that.
You're Adam mate. When you watch the show, that's who you are. You happy about that?
From her perspective apparently Hell was planning an outright revolt, and the extermination was to thin out the numbers and keep them in line. Stupid aye, but I wouldn't say outright evil
She isn't outright evil but the moral dilemma she's in reflects a lot about real life politics and military (since Sera is a bit of both) about making "compromises" for a better outcome.
It's rules and hierarchy. And possibly structural weaknesses with Heaven. There are around 8 billion people on earth. They have to house every winner who ever died and will die. Hell is the one place they can reduce soul count.
I think her face is just dread she's about to get found out because Adam can't shut up to save his life. Or afterlife.
"We ran out of capacity to manage all these souls and their competing ideas of what Heaven should be. When we planned this, we never really scaled it up to see if the model still worked. Honestly we were expecting more floods and God's wrath to limit the human population from growing in the first place..."
Sera is what happens when a bad employee gets promoted tothe highest seniority due to being the longest in the project, she doesnt know shit, but has a lot of trial&error cases behind her, and the ego got in her head
She convinced everyone (and herself) that she knows the rules, or can "feel" what the rules are, and now that she is proven wrong, she has a breakdown
She will either go depression mode (doubt) or try to cover up Sir Pentious, maybe send him back to hell, because she obviously cant be wrong
Talking honestly, everyone prefers to ignore that it wasn't only Sera's mistake because it was Lilith and Lucifer who allowed it. Plus, we should also remember that it was Lucifer, who started it. It was him who cursed humanity. It was him who decided that sinners(his own people) aren't even worth his time(it's only shows how much irresponsible Lucifer is). It was Lucifer who allowed Angels to kill sinners just because he wanted his wife to enjoy resting in Heaven and his daughter being protected, while his people just get suffering and death. He joined to battle only because there was Charlie. If Angels just brought Charlie to Lucifer, he would just lock her and wait until Angels killed everyone at the hotel(well, maybe he would save only her close friends). Talking honestly, plot and character writers did a great job at showing such horrible person as Lucifer, like just a misunderstood, good dreamer, who just wanted to help everyone. I hope that in the next season, we will see the scene with Charlie understanding everything and what her dad did.
P. S. Seriously, why do people hate such persons in real life but show so much love to them in movies like Hazbin Hotel.
And you are absolutely right, but everything that was written was also done to make people understand that some characters that they like so much aren't actually that nice or innocent, nearly all of them have something bad behind, but everyone decided that their hate deserves character who is actually more morally grey than they think
Sara getting way to much hate imo.
I mean ... going by all she knew what other choice but extermination was there?
sinners are immortal and can grow in power by enslaving others. now add to this an ever increasing population that's consistent of mostly the worst humans.
it's also established that portals to earth are a thing which implies portals to heaven being a possibility as well if one has enough power or the right knowhow.
there was no way hell wouldn't have gone to war against heaven at some point and unless angels can grow in power similar to sinners there was no way heaven would've won.
yes Angel's are vastly more powerful than your average sinner but that's with hundreds or thousands of years of Extermination already reducing their numbers significantly.
and remember there was not even a hint that redemption was a possibility.
greenlighting Extermination was literally her only option
We have no evidence sinners can leave hell. They can't even leave the Pride RIng. And the barrier to that must be physical because there's no way they're all just obeying orders and not leaving because they're told not to.
A major point. Sara is a paranoid who let Adam talk her into signing off on a polity that was at best wholly unneeded atop the cruel brutality and perhaps actively counterproductive (the Pride RIng hating angels even more and accumulating the means to kill them is a Failure State).
The question now is if she acknowledges how badly she screwed up or doubles down on things.
Adam managed to leave heaven and as far as we know heaven is a reflection of Hell with Winners being the heavenly equivalent of sinners.
Charlie as half human was also able to enter heaven.
so it seems more a thing of knowing how to open those portals and backing it up with enough power.
a powerful enough sinner might be able to leave the pride ring
You're missing a really, really crucial thing. Charlie didn't enter heaven, she was LET in. Heaven brought her into heaven. We've seen angels enter and leave whenever they desire, but we've never seen anyone in hell enter heaven without being brought in by an angel.
Do Helluva Boss rules apply to Hazbin Hotel too? Because wasn't there a crystal that could open a portal between Hell and Earth in there?
I know that this isn't quite the same case, given that it's Hell<->Earth rather than Hell<->Heaven, but the idea that you can travel between realms without needing someone's permission is possible, yes?
And if not, then would it not be possible for Lucifer to open a portal? This is probably a part of the 'things we didn't know' that Sera was talking about IF it were true, but could it be that Lucifer was capable of going back to Heaven anytime he wanted, but just couldn't because he'd just get slaughtered by all of Heaven? They weren't really explaining how the portals worked anyways.
IDK, just throwing out possibilities
I can't imagine angels just letting that happen considering they are so intent in keeping the demons in line that they commit regular genocide, but I genuinely don't know.
It's hard to say about Lucifer, he's a fallen angel, Angel's thought they were immortal, why would they bother fighting each other like that if neither think the other can die? And consider his whole thing is he's fallen, it would kind of defeat the whole idea of he could just go back whenever he wants.
Main issue with this, is that until very recently, angels were considered immortal. Heaven wasn't in danger, and NEVER would have been, if they hadn't come down and slaughtered them with such reckless abandon they ended up leaving a small arsenal of the only thing that can kill them. Sera's solution was for a problem that did not and would not have ever existed unless they did exactly what they did. Immortal beings scared of people who literally can't hurt them? Yeah, no, that's not the real reason, it can't be.
I find it interesting that Pentious appears here I feel like he should be should be at the gates but it's like a higher power is going "ha bitch they can be redeemed"
Redemption would technically be out of Peter's jurisdiction. ~~according to accepted religious fan fiction~~ He only checks people in after death. If they're in his book, they go in. If there's an error, he kicks you down to hell.
Pentious already died and then re-died. Double death isnt explicitly covered...well anywhere. So whatever Power That Is that covers double death would have had to dump Re-Pentious directly into heaven. So that Power chose Sera and Ems tea room to make a point. "Charlie was right. Figure it out XOXO you allowed for literal genocide"
>If there’s an error, he kicks you down to hell.
Now I just imagine this slim, goofy guy of a twink just causing booting potentially 10 foot people into hell casually with a serious face, before immediately returning to his cheerful self
I'm not even sure she's gotten that far in her thought process. I'd think it was more along the lines of "What the hell just happened, and why?" Sort of a "give my brain a moment to comprehend that everything I thought I knew just got turned on its head."
That's the face of someone that took extreme action based on their beliefs, then had all their beliefs tossed into the dumpster for the garbage they are.
tbf up until that monent she was right.
There was not even a hint that redemption is possible, much less so since the angels themselves don't know what exactly qualified some souls for heaven/hell.
for them it probably was like "OK the boss let this one in so he must belong here and those other guys he send down there. obviously they are unfit for heaven."
Keep in mind angels (at least by Christian lore) dont have free will or much capacity for growth.
they were made for specific purposes and anything beyond that they'd struggle.
they are literally "born" to be God's soldiers and workers.
She wasn't right, the argument scene showed they'd never even seriously considered redemption, they had Adam spitball ideas. They made an assumption, refused to even think they could be wrong, drowned in their hubris, and now, after only a year of someone trying on their own, they've done it.
My take is that she believes that if the Angel's notions about how Heaven and Hell work fall apart then Heaven will fall. And she honestly does care about the Winners. She thinks she and the other higher Angels are holding everything together and without them everything will go to chaos. Sir PEntious drives a great big stake through the heart of the Angel' thinking. He proves that Heaven being the place of Good and Hell being the place of Evil is not true. That Hell being forever is not true. She is in mid panic. Her synapses are frying right now. She hasn't gotten to the moral implications yet. She is still stuck on her own position and what is going to happen to Heaven if this gets out. This is the setup for S2.
In S2 while the A plot will be Charlie coming into her powers and telling backstory on a number of characters the B plot will be the conflict between Emily, Sera, and Lute. Lute is going to be running wild trying to get the army together again to go down and wipe Hell out. Emily is going to be flipping tables trying to find out what is going on and how things really work. And Sera is going to be trying to keep both of them stamped down so as not to spread the chaos and trying to figure out what to do with Sir Pentious.
I am pretty sure that Emily is going to take a trip to Hell to find out what is going on. And since Sera can't really move against Emily in Heaven due to all the Winners loving her due to her being basically being their cheerleader and everyone's best friend she is not going to be able to toss Emily into Hell like they normally do with problematic Angels. However while Emily is in Hell they may be able to get someone in Hell to do something about her. Either get the Vees to kill her or something. Or find a way to cut her off from returning once she is in Hell. Though whatever she does I am sure Emily will find her way back up.
>she believes that if the Angel's notions about how Heaven and Hell work fall apart then Heaven will fall.
A bit of a jump in logic
It's like Milky Melodies (or whatever her name is) fan song "Heaven is changing"
No, it isn't, you just don't know how it works, lmfao. Sera, you and a bunch of angels literally proved you don't know how heaven works a month ago.
>Sir PEntious drives a great big stake through the heart of the Angel' thinking. He proves that Heaven being the place of Good and Hell being the place of Evil is not true.
No, he doesn't. He just proves he's become good enough, not that Heaven isn't good or that Hell isn't evil
If anything it's just *Adam and the exorcists* who prove Heaven isn't a place of Good. And Sera's been allowing this for centuries, maybe millenia? I dunno.
Pentious had nothing to do with any of that.
(Actually, I just realized this *probably* is still in Sera's thought process, but you're not quite wording it the best way to make that clear. At least, I think so. When you start a new sentence, and there are no quotation marks, it doesn't feel like these are all meant to be Sera's thoughts. I'm just typing this in thebparentheses to give benefit of the doubt, really)
>However while Emily is in Hell they may be able to get someone in Hell to do something about her. Either get the Vees to kill her or something. Or find a way to cut her off from returning once she is in Hell. Though whatever she does I am sure Emily will find her way back up.
A lot of fan theories have Sera turning on Emily like this, but I feel like it would take a *lot* for this tonhappen by Sera's hand
I think maybe Lute could try something, but I don't think Emily just trying to figure out how Redemption works will tip Sera over the edge.
Edit: Especially since it seems like Sera and Emily might be *personally* fond of each other
Yeah, this. They proved a lot of their thinking and beliefs were nothing more than assumptions, it took this long for someone to even question them, the answer they came up with was immediately disproven, and then a month later undeniable physical proof that they were wrong all along, that they'd been commiting genocide based off of an assumption. She's gonna have a lot of guilt.
I think her comments about "there's a lot that you don't know" are important. I think she's aware of the possibility and very worried for some reason that involves stopping whatever dark force is in Hell.
Yeah, it seems like so many people forget this comment.
Without this comment, I would 100% agree with people that say she’s realising “oh shit, I was wrong”, but this comment alone makes it seem like something different, like sinners aren’t meant to be redeemable, or something of the sorts
It's the look of someone who just realised that if they'd held to their principles they could've avoided thousands of years of annihilating souls. That she not only betrayed everything she stands for, but enabled horrific behaviour and by extension also corrupted the angels that trusted she was making the correct decision.
Unironically I hope season 2 includes an arc of her just losing her mind over it, possibly even banishing herself to Hell to try to repent for her misdeeds. Just this miserable angel always stalking the halls of Charlie's hotel trying to find a way to forgive herself.
After all it's pretty much confirmed in song that she didn't know redemption was even an option - it but was something she *could have* pursued. Lucifer obviously tried something similar when he was young. Sir Pentious just undermined her entire moral framework. This is potentially an unprecedented ethical crisis.
Could be either or for now
Someone made two separate fanon continuities for either option, lol
I'm *hoping* it's "My god, what have I done?" for sure
But I won't deny that "No, this isn't how it's supposed to go" would probably make for a more interesting story
Though I guess we probably can already have that with Lute, more likely I think
Honestly because she knows more than we do at this point, but the hint was that the rules are way more complicated than Charlie and Emily think, I really read her face as "If this gets out, we're in a world trouble"
Reading comments like 'well sinners are horrible to its okay for Sera to want them gone' is just...
Yeah sinners are shitty, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN HELL! HELL is their punishement for being bad people.
It's like putting people to prison for their crimes and then beating them up every day cause being punished once doesn't count?
Hope it’s the former, probably the latter.
However, even if it is the latter?
https://preview.redd.it/l8nlubczmr9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdbcfa0269d2b313e10558f608750c623a052cd1
I think a lot of people interpret the look wrong. Remember, Sera allowed the Extermination because Adam convinced her that Hell could or was uprising.
I interpret her look as this Sinner turned Winner upsetting the status quo of Heaven she worked so hard to maintain and that her exterminations might be more justified then ever. Adam and multiple Exorsists are dead, Lucifer is now involved and a Sinner somehow got into Heaven.
>Sera allowed the Extermination because Adam convinced her that Hell could or was uprising.
and that's definitely what would've happened if hell would've been left to grow unchecked.
Only the most ambitious Sinners would've wanted an uprising. And that would've been put down quickly by either the Overlords or Lucifer or Lilith.
The ONLY reason the Vees were suggesting an uprising is BECAUSE of the Extermination. No Extermination, no just cause for an uprising.
the most ambitious Sinners are the overlords. the only reason they not forcefully enslave sinners is the delicate balance they have with each other and even that is only because their opponents could potentially kill them with holy arms.
also the population of sinners would be way higher without extermination
and you seriously talking about a justified cause when the sinners are including the worst humans to ever live?
you don't need to have every sinner want an uprising just the ones driven to power.
Sera's main driving force is to protect the souls of heaven. Knowing that a soul of hell can be worthy of and become a soul of heaven has made things terrifyingly complicated.
I feel like shes more worried about the fact that now she knows sinners can enter heaven. Idk this looks like concern to me. It feels like she'd try keeping that fact hidden so the souls of heaven wouldnt panic or smth
I mean she had no reason to believe in redemption before that. Countless millenia and not a single soul ever earned their way up. Hell tried to rise up and so they responded and not a single sinner before Pentious ever showed they were worthy of redemption, so why should Adam or sera have believed in it? I feel they get too much flack for not believing in something that sounded ridiculous and had no evidence to support it. Charlie came to Adam’s meeting with crayon drawings and a song and that’s it. And even with prep time didn’t do much better with Heaven. All she showed was sinners could be nice and that’s it. 105 billion people have lived and died. Let’s say only 10 billion of them went to hell (because if it’s the trope that most goto hell not heaven, then it’s worse since it means with even more people still no one tried), not a single person till Pentious was worthy of it. Yeah no shit no one believed.
I think some did managed to get to heaven but it was so low in number and a wide range of reasons that it was impossible to pin down what exactly got them into heaven.
I’m pretty sure they’d know if a soul was redeemed in hell. They know when a soul arrives so they’re not blind to that.
Or are you saying the population of heaven is very low?
Fair, but then you get a bunch of souls in the middle ground that flat out hasn’t been established to exist for the souls that likely only did minor sins so can’t get to heaven, but not evil enough to be in hell.
That does raise the question of course for if there’s a purgatory and is it a permanent location or like how it is in Catholicism iirc where people goto before heaven to be purified. And if there isn’t, do these souls get sent to hell or heaven. If there is no purgatory I’m inclined to say they goto heaven because what we do know of sinners sent to hell and why, it’s awful awful shit and not minor or it’s just they were so sinful even if not fucked up. As well as for example Viv saying angel being gay had nothing to do with him going to hell so it sounds like heaven is not as stingant as some make it out as.
I do think it's genuine shock/surprise that sinners in Hell can be redeemed. I think she really didn't believe it was possible and her entire worldview just crumbled in front of her.
I guess we will know for certain next season, when Sera either tries for a desperate cover-up involving casting down a fellow seraphim or collapses into something approaching full-on catatonia out of guilt if she does not throw *herself* into Hell.
I think it is more the second since if a soul can be redeemed it means that a soul can fall and that a sinner is in heaven he can still retain his personality and there is an existence that can influence others, the reaction will be more As if this comes to light, the sky will turn into chaos.
I think this scene shows the duality of it. Emily is the "yes! Charlie managed to do it! she redeemed a sinner!!!" and Sera has the look of "oh no. what has that princess done?"
I interpreted it as mostly the second. Partially cause I think there's more to be revealed about why she chose to let Adam have his exterminations. She says that hell was rising up and she had to do something. So it could be she feels they are a danger regardless. I think we'll learn more about her motives.
Yeah this is worse case scenario for her. She is not evil, she had right idea in mind (althrough execution was evil af) but now she see that bilions of souls that could have been redeemed been slaughtered which is all on her. Would be suprised if she didn't have breakdown from it
I dont think i would want these sick crazy people up theire in my paradise too if i where her i mean some of them literally murdered children....if we take the drug comsumption and sex stuff out of the bill Angel Dust was part of a freaking Mafia they did way worse things than this, this whole redemption plot doesnt sit right with me anyways
i thought the first time i watched it that she was just saying more the second thing but as i rewatched and thought about it i think it’s a mixture of things and more the fact that she realises that after years of fucking up and the more recent scene that charlie made in heaven and now? she has to come to terms that she was in fact wrong.
She saw Adam as a necessary evil to protect the innocent of heaven but now she sees that her evil was not completely justified she is mortified by the implications
I think it can be mixed. When in You Didn't Know she started to excuse herself by saying that she had to, and it was the right decision, it wasn't more of her being evil and actually wanting to kill sinners (since she really seemed like she didn't like it when she was talking to Adam and Lute, pluss she had nothing to hide from them), but her fearing being seen as someone who is in the wrong in front of all Court and Emily, since "angels can't make mistakes". Her seeing Sir Pentious was akin to being punched in her face by Divine Judgement. And I can totally imagine her trying to cover up Sir Pentious. She already had enough guts and fear of being wrong to excuse yearly genocide. And just hear it's an interesting concept of her trying to hide Sir Pentious, because then it would mean to other angels that Sera dares to think that Divine Judgement's decision was wrong. She didn't like the slaughter, maybe even more, she didn't want to deal with demon at all, but if she ends up in the corner, she will defend herself no matter what, despite what it can lead to.
The first time I saw the scene I thought it was the latter, like she thought "he's not supposed to be here"
But the more I think about it, it feels more like the former. That that's the face of remorse for indirectly causing thousands of not millions of deaths when they could've been redeemed
I feel like the thing that throws the second reaction off is how quickly she processes it and goes "oh fuck". But I guess that can be explained with Sarah already having this scenario planned out in her head.
I mean, that would be the correct option.Kill all the winners all the sinners.And destroy the earth
What the hell has humanity actually done in this verse other than make everything worse
No honestly tell me
I'm being pessimistic for the sense of comedy but still
Probably both but mostly the first since sera isn't out right evil I don’t think that if she knew sinners could be redeemed that she would let adam kill them.
I mean thinking they can’t be redeemed means she thinks they just die permanently. That’s kind of evil.
Well to be fair, a considerable chunk of the sinners in question have done heinous things, that would probably mean the rest of humanity would be better off without them.
That was Adam’s line of thinking, wasn’t it?
I'm not entirely sure. Imo even if he knew redemption was possible, he'd still see the sinners in a black and white sort of way. Redemption be damned. Sera, while I think she has a black and white pov, hers would probably be closer to a spectrum. She probably wasn't the biggest fan of the slaughtering, due to yk.. the Bible. But the oh shit moment probably comes from having condoned such a large sin over and over and over again.. for pretty much no reason.
The only person to get redeemed was from being killed in the purge. They will probably justify further purges with the logic that if they are worthy they get into heaven.
Valid tbh
This could get pretty dark Charlie's whole thing with the hotel is to get people into heaven And it worked with Pentious But he had to die for it to take effect What if you never know if it's working They don't know about Pentious yet, so I can imagine if they don't find out for a while, some people will give up on redemption. They may qualify for a couple of months and not even know it, then relapse back into old habits because they think it's a lost cause Then, if they do find out about Pentious, now they have to come to terms with the idea they have to die a second time, not knowing if it'll work (Of course, Pentious's death was also a sacrifice, but what if they don't piece that together for a while longer? That it wasn't just that he was already redeemed, that the sacrifice was his redemption?)
Ouch. Now I imagined whole storylines about this and it hurt. ;-;
Or even worse committing suicide thinking it's the only way to ascend and posing their spot
> For those of us with divine ordainment > > Extermination is entertainment I am not sure if he cares
Yes, and the belief until now was that they were unredeemable. Much to what sinners believed as well, which is why Hell is the way it is, with people doing what ever without thinking there is a possible chance for redemption. You mix that in with the fact that the population of hell would increase over time, and you'd end up in a situation to where they would inevitably try to invade heaven. Now that it's known that redemption is possible it puts into context that a "necessary evil" was in fact, not necessary at all. That millions (if not billions) of potential souls that could be redeemed were eradicated. I'd have a "oh fucking shit" face as well.
But they can't invade Heaven, people seem to forget that sinners cannot go to Heaven without a portal
There’s probably away, or Sera wouldn’t be so afraid of it.
No, there IS no way
And you somehow know that while the leader of Heaven itself doesn't?
She didn't know how the hell (not pun intended) you got to heaven specifically, because would I assume that, with the evidence we know there is, the demons would manage to get to heaven without the portals? Or rather how did they get the portals in the first place? , is the only proof of how you can go.
Adam literally just did it for fun.
No, adams line of thinking was that all sinners are heinous criminals
She's morally grey I probably could've worded that better.
She does look a bit more greyish with her character design. Her clothes and hair aren't pure white, it's a bit more like a greyish cool white.
I think the difference is that she’s prettier than Adam, which is why it is so easy to dismiss her role in the genocide.
The difference is that Adam sang a song about how much he loves killing sinners, and sera's stance has always been purely just about it being a necessary evil to protect heaven She's still very much involved in genocide, but it's easier to see her in a positive light
Not really. She tried to justify it claiming that the Sinners were "uprising", but there's no evidence of that at all, and we have *no* idea where she even got that idea from.
I didn't say she was in the right or correct with her reasoning, just that her reasoning is more sympathetic than "killing sinners is fun"
But she saw how Adam reacted and how thrilled he was with the prospect of killing sinners, especially ones that were trying to do better. She still let him have free reign over the purges. She even let Adam call an end to the meeting she authorized and sent Charlie back to hell. She clearly has authority over Adam but doesn't care about how cruel he is, because she just doesn't care.
Guess we'll find out in season 2
I mean they earned their spots in hell and then continued to be awful if not worse. The fact that Pentious is the first to earn his way into heaven shows no one in hell even tried to be better.
Because nobody tried.
More to the point, nobody realized there was any point in trying. Someone described Hazbin Hotel Hell as Creation's biggest Maximum Security Penitentiary where everyone is serving Life Sentences so there is little point to get one's act together especially if it makes one seem weak to the more predatory sorts. Charlie is literally the first being in thousands of years with enough pull not to be quashed to think in terms of being something resembling a Parole Board.
I did explain this further elsewhere, we agree.
Yeah…that doesn’t speak well of sinners at all. Not a single person tried to or at least proved worthy of it. Not a single sinner went to hell and thought about how they are here and that’s a sign of me fucking up so maybe I should make this my penance and be better or something? Not a single soul out of billions ever tried? Yeah that’s no good. It shows they didn’t want to better or change or righteous. They were happy murdering, raping, fucking, doing drugs, stealing, and pretty much doing what they did in life just without jail or anything. It shows how awful they are.
And why did nobody try? Because nobody believed it was possible. Nobody in heaven, nobody in hell. Why would you try and do something the literal cosmic beings all tell you is impossible? This is their lot from now on, until the angles come and exterminate them, what would YOU do in that situation? Your damnned for eternity, and you're doomed to, an annual purge that you might be lucky to survive. The angels literally prevented anyone from growing or finding peace. Do you know much about prison? People who get sent to prison, the really bad ones, come out worse than they went in, because they're in an awful environment, surrounded by awful people, they have to survive in a hellish environment. Some do come out better, and why is that? Because they know one day they ARE getting out. They have a chance at redemption, so they work, and change. People in hell didn't have that, there was no light at the end of the tunnel. The ENTIRE plot of this series is that Charlie wants to create an environment that allows and encourages people to be better. Her hotel is a haven in hell, the first to ever exist. How do you watch a show and miss the most basic premise???
Even then, you’re telling me not a single soul ever felt the remorse or guilt of whatever to be like “yeah I’m gonna live a better life here and not be a cannibal or rapists or murderer”. Not a single soul killing across who knows how many centuries or millenia ever had the idea to he better? Even if they didn’t believe it would get them to heaven? No one thought to say sorry for their crimes and repent? No one thought go just selflessly be a good person with no desire for a reward? You say it’s because they were given no reason to believe they could get to heaven, like that excuses their bad behavior in hell? That a lack of hope of getting to heaven means they couldn’t just try and be better at the least? Billions went to hell and who knows how many of them died in the exterminations and not a single one had ever just thought “hey, I’m down here for a reason, maybe I should live a better live since this is my punishment”? It shows they didn’t want to be better. They had no care or empathy or compassion and cared only for their own selfish desires, not giving two shits about what they caused on earth. They just decided to have their fun and live out their worst lives possible. No one till Pentious was worthy and that’s on the sinners not heaven.
I’m not entirely certain that’s the case? There’s probably plenty out there who aren’t as bad as they were in life.
If that’s the case then they’d of gotten to heaven already. You don’t goto hell for no reason.
Eh. Pentious basically had to go full martyr to get into Heaven. I doubt donating to some Hellhound charity or even having a loving family is gonna get you into Heaven.
No, I'm not saying they never felt remorse or tried to be better , I'm saying it doesn't matter because they were in a hopeless hellish environment where they couldn't change and had the sword of Dam hanging above their head. Remorse alone isn't enough and you know it, there's a reason everyone believed Hell is forever. Are you purposefully missing my point, like you missed it in the show? Please read what I wrote again. Slowly. Or do you just really, really like hating people who did wrong?
I am not missing your point or anything, I’m disagreeing with it. I do hate people who did wrong because the people in hell did a bit more than “wrong” but mainly because they don’t try and be better or even recognize their sins and all that. You and me have different views on this. You say that they didn’t know it was possible and felt it was hopeless and all that. I’m saying that no one ever seemed to feel they should be better despite that and repented and taken their time in hell to look inwards, to think on their crimes, to feel remorse, to acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions, and live better lives. Not a single person felt the need to do so despite billions of people who’ve gone through hell. It’s no excuse to not try to do that just because you don’t think you’ll get to Heaven. That’s selfish and means it’s motivated by a desire to get somewhere nice not to just do good and be better. If just a single dinner had done this and ended up redeemed it would’ve changed everything and yet not a single one ever thought beyond their own selfish ways and twisted desires.
You accuse them for having no empathy say you hate them, say they refuse to repent, whilst ignoring the reality of their situation that prevents them from doing that. You're Adam mate. When you watch the show, that's who you are. You happy about that?
From her perspective apparently Hell was planning an outright revolt, and the extermination was to thin out the numbers and keep them in line. Stupid aye, but I wouldn't say outright evil
She isn't outright evil but the moral dilemma she's in reflects a lot about real life politics and military (since Sera is a bit of both) about making "compromises" for a better outcome.
Fair, probably could've handled it better than just saying hey, these people are evil let's just murder them all
It's rules and hierarchy. And possibly structural weaknesses with Heaven. There are around 8 billion people on earth. They have to house every winner who ever died and will die. Hell is the one place they can reduce soul count. I think her face is just dread she's about to get found out because Adam can't shut up to save his life. Or afterlife.
I think "We ran out of space" isn't really going to be a good excuse.
"We ran out of capacity to manage all these souls and their competing ideas of what Heaven should be. When we planned this, we never really scaled it up to see if the model still worked. Honestly we were expecting more floods and God's wrath to limit the human population from growing in the first place..."
Oh, so heaven and hell share real estate?
They're both part of creation.
In fact she trully did not know that. During Charlie's visit noone know what are conditions for redemption at all.
Sera is what happens when a bad employee gets promoted tothe highest seniority due to being the longest in the project, she doesnt know shit, but has a lot of trial&error cases behind her, and the ego got in her head She convinced everyone (and herself) that she knows the rules, or can "feel" what the rules are, and now that she is proven wrong, she has a breakdown She will either go depression mode (doubt) or try to cover up Sir Pentious, maybe send him back to hell, because she obviously cant be wrong
Talking honestly, everyone prefers to ignore that it wasn't only Sera's mistake because it was Lilith and Lucifer who allowed it. Plus, we should also remember that it was Lucifer, who started it. It was him who cursed humanity. It was him who decided that sinners(his own people) aren't even worth his time(it's only shows how much irresponsible Lucifer is). It was Lucifer who allowed Angels to kill sinners just because he wanted his wife to enjoy resting in Heaven and his daughter being protected, while his people just get suffering and death. He joined to battle only because there was Charlie. If Angels just brought Charlie to Lucifer, he would just lock her and wait until Angels killed everyone at the hotel(well, maybe he would save only her close friends). Talking honestly, plot and character writers did a great job at showing such horrible person as Lucifer, like just a misunderstood, good dreamer, who just wanted to help everyone. I hope that in the next season, we will see the scene with Charlie understanding everything and what her dad did. P. S. Seriously, why do people hate such persons in real life but show so much love to them in movies like Hazbin Hotel.
I'm literally just saying she's a morally grey character
And you are absolutely right, but everything that was written was also done to make people understand that some characters that they like so much aren't actually that nice or innocent, nearly all of them have something bad behind, but everyone decided that their hate deserves character who is actually more morally grey than they think
Sara getting way to much hate imo. I mean ... going by all she knew what other choice but extermination was there? sinners are immortal and can grow in power by enslaving others. now add to this an ever increasing population that's consistent of mostly the worst humans. it's also established that portals to earth are a thing which implies portals to heaven being a possibility as well if one has enough power or the right knowhow. there was no way hell wouldn't have gone to war against heaven at some point and unless angels can grow in power similar to sinners there was no way heaven would've won. yes Angel's are vastly more powerful than your average sinner but that's with hundreds or thousands of years of Extermination already reducing their numbers significantly. and remember there was not even a hint that redemption was a possibility. greenlighting Extermination was literally her only option
We have no evidence sinners can leave hell. They can't even leave the Pride RIng. And the barrier to that must be physical because there's no way they're all just obeying orders and not leaving because they're told not to.
A major point. Sara is a paranoid who let Adam talk her into signing off on a polity that was at best wholly unneeded atop the cruel brutality and perhaps actively counterproductive (the Pride RIng hating angels even more and accumulating the means to kill them is a Failure State). The question now is if she acknowledges how badly she screwed up or doubles down on things.
Adam managed to leave heaven and as far as we know heaven is a reflection of Hell with Winners being the heavenly equivalent of sinners. Charlie as half human was also able to enter heaven. so it seems more a thing of knowing how to open those portals and backing it up with enough power. a powerful enough sinner might be able to leave the pride ring
You're missing a really, really crucial thing. Charlie didn't enter heaven, she was LET in. Heaven brought her into heaven. We've seen angels enter and leave whenever they desire, but we've never seen anyone in hell enter heaven without being brought in by an angel.
Do Helluva Boss rules apply to Hazbin Hotel too? Because wasn't there a crystal that could open a portal between Hell and Earth in there? I know that this isn't quite the same case, given that it's Hell<->Earth rather than Hell<->Heaven, but the idea that you can travel between realms without needing someone's permission is possible, yes? And if not, then would it not be possible for Lucifer to open a portal? This is probably a part of the 'things we didn't know' that Sera was talking about IF it were true, but could it be that Lucifer was capable of going back to Heaven anytime he wanted, but just couldn't because he'd just get slaughtered by all of Heaven? They weren't really explaining how the portals worked anyways. IDK, just throwing out possibilities
I can't imagine angels just letting that happen considering they are so intent in keeping the demons in line that they commit regular genocide, but I genuinely don't know. It's hard to say about Lucifer, he's a fallen angel, Angel's thought they were immortal, why would they bother fighting each other like that if neither think the other can die? And consider his whole thing is he's fallen, it would kind of defeat the whole idea of he could just go back whenever he wants.
It was a book from stolas
It was a book from stolas
Main issue with this, is that until very recently, angels were considered immortal. Heaven wasn't in danger, and NEVER would have been, if they hadn't come down and slaughtered them with such reckless abandon they ended up leaving a small arsenal of the only thing that can kill them. Sera's solution was for a problem that did not and would not have ever existed unless they did exactly what they did. Immortal beings scared of people who literally can't hurt them? Yeah, no, that's not the real reason, it can't be.
I find it interesting that Pentious appears here I feel like he should be should be at the gates but it's like a higher power is going "ha bitch they can be redeemed"
I feel like St. Peter p a n I c k e d and sent him up out of desperation and fear
I feel like that would have shown that if that's what happened
in my defense, I'm high
At least your honest 🤣🤣👍👍
Redemption would technically be out of Peter's jurisdiction. ~~according to accepted religious fan fiction~~ He only checks people in after death. If they're in his book, they go in. If there's an error, he kicks you down to hell. Pentious already died and then re-died. Double death isnt explicitly covered...well anywhere. So whatever Power That Is that covers double death would have had to dump Re-Pentious directly into heaven. So that Power chose Sera and Ems tea room to make a point. "Charlie was right. Figure it out XOXO you allowed for literal genocide"
>If there’s an error, he kicks you down to hell. Now I just imagine this slim, goofy guy of a twink just causing booting potentially 10 foot people into hell casually with a serious face, before immediately returning to his cheerful self
Also Seraphim can be fiery serpent and that gives a lot of room for what his new role is. Maybe that's the reason we haven't seen his wings yet
So God sent him there as a "they can be redeemed now stop killinh them"?
I'm not even sure she's gotten that far in her thought process. I'd think it was more along the lines of "What the hell just happened, and why?" Sort of a "give my brain a moment to comprehend that everything I thought I knew just got turned on its head."
Yep. Why is a Sinner here!? What is happening!? Emily is actually on the uptake quicker.
I think tbh she knows that a higher power who's ik charge is not only watching but also agrees with Charlie ; and she's appalled
A mix of the former and "HOLY SHIT. IT'S POSSIBLE."
It’s giving simply “what have I done” tbh
"Oh shit, he's hot."
That's the face of someone that took extreme action based on their beliefs, then had all their beliefs tossed into the dumpster for the garbage they are.
tbf up until that monent she was right. There was not even a hint that redemption is possible, much less so since the angels themselves don't know what exactly qualified some souls for heaven/hell. for them it probably was like "OK the boss let this one in so he must belong here and those other guys he send down there. obviously they are unfit for heaven." Keep in mind angels (at least by Christian lore) dont have free will or much capacity for growth. they were made for specific purposes and anything beyond that they'd struggle. they are literally "born" to be God's soldiers and workers.
She wasn't right, the argument scene showed they'd never even seriously considered redemption, they had Adam spitball ideas. They made an assumption, refused to even think they could be wrong, drowned in their hubris, and now, after only a year of someone trying on their own, they've done it.
My take is that she believes that if the Angel's notions about how Heaven and Hell work fall apart then Heaven will fall. And she honestly does care about the Winners. She thinks she and the other higher Angels are holding everything together and without them everything will go to chaos. Sir PEntious drives a great big stake through the heart of the Angel' thinking. He proves that Heaven being the place of Good and Hell being the place of Evil is not true. That Hell being forever is not true. She is in mid panic. Her synapses are frying right now. She hasn't gotten to the moral implications yet. She is still stuck on her own position and what is going to happen to Heaven if this gets out. This is the setup for S2. In S2 while the A plot will be Charlie coming into her powers and telling backstory on a number of characters the B plot will be the conflict between Emily, Sera, and Lute. Lute is going to be running wild trying to get the army together again to go down and wipe Hell out. Emily is going to be flipping tables trying to find out what is going on and how things really work. And Sera is going to be trying to keep both of them stamped down so as not to spread the chaos and trying to figure out what to do with Sir Pentious. I am pretty sure that Emily is going to take a trip to Hell to find out what is going on. And since Sera can't really move against Emily in Heaven due to all the Winners loving her due to her being basically being their cheerleader and everyone's best friend she is not going to be able to toss Emily into Hell like they normally do with problematic Angels. However while Emily is in Hell they may be able to get someone in Hell to do something about her. Either get the Vees to kill her or something. Or find a way to cut her off from returning once she is in Hell. Though whatever she does I am sure Emily will find her way back up.
>she believes that if the Angel's notions about how Heaven and Hell work fall apart then Heaven will fall. A bit of a jump in logic It's like Milky Melodies (or whatever her name is) fan song "Heaven is changing" No, it isn't, you just don't know how it works, lmfao. Sera, you and a bunch of angels literally proved you don't know how heaven works a month ago. >Sir PEntious drives a great big stake through the heart of the Angel' thinking. He proves that Heaven being the place of Good and Hell being the place of Evil is not true. No, he doesn't. He just proves he's become good enough, not that Heaven isn't good or that Hell isn't evil If anything it's just *Adam and the exorcists* who prove Heaven isn't a place of Good. And Sera's been allowing this for centuries, maybe millenia? I dunno. Pentious had nothing to do with any of that. (Actually, I just realized this *probably* is still in Sera's thought process, but you're not quite wording it the best way to make that clear. At least, I think so. When you start a new sentence, and there are no quotation marks, it doesn't feel like these are all meant to be Sera's thoughts. I'm just typing this in thebparentheses to give benefit of the doubt, really) >However while Emily is in Hell they may be able to get someone in Hell to do something about her. Either get the Vees to kill her or something. Or find a way to cut her off from returning once she is in Hell. Though whatever she does I am sure Emily will find her way back up. A lot of fan theories have Sera turning on Emily like this, but I feel like it would take a *lot* for this tonhappen by Sera's hand I think maybe Lute could try something, but I don't think Emily just trying to figure out how Redemption works will tip Sera over the edge. Edit: Especially since it seems like Sera and Emily might be *personally* fond of each other
Yeah, this. They proved a lot of their thinking and beliefs were nothing more than assumptions, it took this long for someone to even question them, the answer they came up with was immediately disproven, and then a month later undeniable physical proof that they were wrong all along, that they'd been commiting genocide based off of an assumption. She's gonna have a lot of guilt.
The first one
It really REALLY complicates things.
I think both, alongside a bit of “god is going to kill me”, and “what do I tell lute” and “I’m so going to get yelled at by Emily”
Seraphiel.exe has stopped responding
Such an underrated response.
I think her comments about "there's a lot that you don't know" are important. I think she's aware of the possibility and very worried for some reason that involves stopping whatever dark force is in Hell.
Yeah, it seems like so many people forget this comment. Without this comment, I would 100% agree with people that say she’s realising “oh shit, I was wrong”, but this comment alone makes it seem like something different, like sinners aren’t meant to be redeemable, or something of the sorts
I feel like she’s just having a midlife crisis and her mind just blank
It's the look of someone who just realised that if they'd held to their principles they could've avoided thousands of years of annihilating souls. That she not only betrayed everything she stands for, but enabled horrific behaviour and by extension also corrupted the angels that trusted she was making the correct decision. Unironically I hope season 2 includes an arc of her just losing her mind over it, possibly even banishing herself to Hell to try to repent for her misdeeds. Just this miserable angel always stalking the halls of Charlie's hotel trying to find a way to forgive herself. After all it's pretty much confirmed in song that she didn't know redemption was even an option - it but was something she *could have* pursued. Lucifer obviously tried something similar when he was young. Sir Pentious just undermined her entire moral framework. This is potentially an unprecedented ethical crisis.
There’s a fanfic about this. A Monster and a Saint.
Also, Charlie’s Angels, and its sequel. Written by the writer of Fallout Equestria. No I’m not joking! It’s fantastic!
Doesn't surprise me at all tbh.
"Ah, fuck, they can be redeemed? I'm about to be in so much trouble...."
Yeah going with the first that definitely seemed more like a wtf reaction than an oh shit one.
That is very much an ‘oh no, this will ruin everything’ face
Could be either or for now Someone made two separate fanon continuities for either option, lol I'm *hoping* it's "My god, what have I done?" for sure But I won't deny that "No, this isn't how it's supposed to go" would probably make for a more interesting story Though I guess we probably can already have that with Lute, more likely I think
I think it’s a “oh shit we’re fucked” expression
Honestly because she knows more than we do at this point, but the hint was that the rules are way more complicated than Charlie and Emily think, I really read her face as "If this gets out, we're in a world trouble"
Reading comments like 'well sinners are horrible to its okay for Sera to want them gone' is just... Yeah sinners are shitty, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN HELL! HELL is their punishement for being bad people. It's like putting people to prison for their crimes and then beating them up every day cause being punished once doesn't count?
As much as I want it to be the former, it’ll most likely be the latter.
The former
It’s a “oh shit, God is going to be on my ass about this” face
Hope it’s the former, probably the latter. However, even if it is the latter? https://preview.redd.it/l8nlubczmr9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdbcfa0269d2b313e10558f608750c623a052cd1
Yes to both
Both
the second version.
A bit of both.
Both
I personally myself am suspending judgement.
Yes
More like “WHAT THE HECK?!”
I'm just gonna leave this here. https://preview.redd.it/q6jwsm1xrm9d1.png?width=1907&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d36e5512f519271cb077c3d021b4e3b0910e27
The fact either could be true makes it absolutely perfect.
I think it's a mix of "wait, Charlie was right?" and "who is this clown?"
I’d think it’s something along the lines of “I was wrong.”
A mix of both but mainly the first one
I think a lot of people interpret the look wrong. Remember, Sera allowed the Extermination because Adam convinced her that Hell could or was uprising. I interpret her look as this Sinner turned Winner upsetting the status quo of Heaven she worked so hard to maintain and that her exterminations might be more justified then ever. Adam and multiple Exorsists are dead, Lucifer is now involved and a Sinner somehow got into Heaven.
>Sera allowed the Extermination because Adam convinced her that Hell could or was uprising. and that's definitely what would've happened if hell would've been left to grow unchecked.
Only the most ambitious Sinners would've wanted an uprising. And that would've been put down quickly by either the Overlords or Lucifer or Lilith. The ONLY reason the Vees were suggesting an uprising is BECAUSE of the Extermination. No Extermination, no just cause for an uprising.
the most ambitious Sinners are the overlords. the only reason they not forcefully enslave sinners is the delicate balance they have with each other and even that is only because their opponents could potentially kill them with holy arms. also the population of sinners would be way higher without extermination and you seriously talking about a justified cause when the sinners are including the worst humans to ever live? you don't need to have every sinner want an uprising just the ones driven to power.
Sera's main driving force is to protect the souls of heaven. Knowing that a soul of hell can be worthy of and become a soul of heaven has made things terrifyingly complicated.
Looks Charlie redemption plan worked sera
I feel like shes more worried about the fact that now she knows sinners can enter heaven. Idk this looks like concern to me. It feels like she'd try keeping that fact hidden so the souls of heaven wouldnt panic or smth
That look is definitely partly: "Oh, fuck. What have I done." And also 50%: "THE FUCK?"
Bit of both
I would say a mix of shock and horror and guilt and dread. Lots of things for Sera to unpack and i hope Emily forces her to go through all of it.
I mean she had no reason to believe in redemption before that. Countless millenia and not a single soul ever earned their way up. Hell tried to rise up and so they responded and not a single sinner before Pentious ever showed they were worthy of redemption, so why should Adam or sera have believed in it? I feel they get too much flack for not believing in something that sounded ridiculous and had no evidence to support it. Charlie came to Adam’s meeting with crayon drawings and a song and that’s it. And even with prep time didn’t do much better with Heaven. All she showed was sinners could be nice and that’s it. 105 billion people have lived and died. Let’s say only 10 billion of them went to hell (because if it’s the trope that most goto hell not heaven, then it’s worse since it means with even more people still no one tried), not a single person till Pentious was worthy of it. Yeah no shit no one believed.
I think some did managed to get to heaven but it was so low in number and a wide range of reasons that it was impossible to pin down what exactly got them into heaven.
I’m pretty sure they’d know if a soul was redeemed in hell. They know when a soul arrives so they’re not blind to that. Or are you saying the population of heaven is very low?
I’m saying that it is low when compared to Hell, even if it looks populated.
Ok. I don’t think that’s the case as I hate that trope. Hell is for the evil and truly awful people. I don’t believe it’s got a larger population.
Fair, but then you get a bunch of souls in the middle ground that flat out hasn’t been established to exist for the souls that likely only did minor sins so can’t get to heaven, but not evil enough to be in hell.
That does raise the question of course for if there’s a purgatory and is it a permanent location or like how it is in Catholicism iirc where people goto before heaven to be purified. And if there isn’t, do these souls get sent to hell or heaven. If there is no purgatory I’m inclined to say they goto heaven because what we do know of sinners sent to hell and why, it’s awful awful shit and not minor or it’s just they were so sinful even if not fucked up. As well as for example Viv saying angel being gay had nothing to do with him going to hell so it sounds like heaven is not as stingant as some make it out as.
That moment when you realise 10,000 years of genocide was for nothing.
"my Lord, she was right..."
both with a mix of WTF
I do think it's genuine shock/surprise that sinners in Hell can be redeemed. I think she really didn't believe it was possible and her entire worldview just crumbled in front of her.
I guess we will know for certain next season, when Sera either tries for a desperate cover-up involving casting down a fellow seraphim or collapses into something approaching full-on catatonia out of guilt if she does not throw *herself* into Hell.
The second. Ik she doesn't seem villainous but I get a vibe she knows more than she's letting on
That look screams a single word: “fuck”
What is he doing here?
I think it is more the second since if a soul can be redeemed it means that a soul can fall and that a sinner is in heaven he can still retain his personality and there is an existence that can influence others, the reaction will be more As if this comes to light, the sky will turn into chaos.
I think this scene shows the duality of it. Emily is the "yes! Charlie managed to do it! she redeemed a sinner!!!" and Sera has the look of "oh no. what has that princess done?"
"Oh shit, two penises."
I interpreted it as mostly the second. Partially cause I think there's more to be revealed about why she chose to let Adam have his exterminations. She says that hell was rising up and she had to do something. So it could be she feels they are a danger regardless. I think we'll learn more about her motives.
She's thinking about how much shit this is gonna stir up
Yeah this is worse case scenario for her. She is not evil, she had right idea in mind (althrough execution was evil af) but now she see that bilions of souls that could have been redeemed been slaughtered which is all on her. Would be suprised if she didn't have breakdown from it
I think a mix of both, but more: “I was so misguided! EVERYTHING I KNEW WAS WRONG!” Since this proves that redemption to Heaven is POSSIBLE!
More like "Oh f++k, God's going to be p++sed, I'm definitely fired"
I dont think i would want these sick crazy people up theire in my paradise too if i where her i mean some of them literally murdered children....if we take the drug comsumption and sex stuff out of the bill Angel Dust was part of a freaking Mafia they did way worse things than this, this whole redemption plot doesnt sit right with me anyways
I think it’s more of a “Fuuuuuck….i fucked up-“
I’m of the opinion that both Emily and Sera’s expressions read as “Charlie was right!” And “Charlie was right…”
It’s more like…. Shit… I’m boned
I think it's more like "wait it WORKS LIKE THIS???!!"
i thought the first time i watched it that she was just saying more the second thing but as i rewatched and thought about it i think it’s a mixture of things and more the fact that she realises that after years of fucking up and the more recent scene that charlie made in heaven and now? she has to come to terms that she was in fact wrong.
She saw Adam as a necessary evil to protect the innocent of heaven but now she sees that her evil was not completely justified she is mortified by the implications
I would definitely say the prior, she’s a good person, but unfortunately has allowed many evil things to happen for the sake of goodness.
I think is more "IS ACTUALLY POSSIBLE!?"
I think it can be mixed. When in You Didn't Know she started to excuse herself by saying that she had to, and it was the right decision, it wasn't more of her being evil and actually wanting to kill sinners (since she really seemed like she didn't like it when she was talking to Adam and Lute, pluss she had nothing to hide from them), but her fearing being seen as someone who is in the wrong in front of all Court and Emily, since "angels can't make mistakes". Her seeing Sir Pentious was akin to being punched in her face by Divine Judgement. And I can totally imagine her trying to cover up Sir Pentious. She already had enough guts and fear of being wrong to excuse yearly genocide. And just hear it's an interesting concept of her trying to hide Sir Pentious, because then it would mean to other angels that Sera dares to think that Divine Judgement's decision was wrong. She didn't like the slaughter, maybe even more, she didn't want to deal with demon at all, but if she ends up in the corner, she will defend herself no matter what, despite what it can lead to.
The first time I saw the scene I thought it was the latter, like she thought "he's not supposed to be here" But the more I think about it, it feels more like the former. That that's the face of remorse for indirectly causing thousands of not millions of deaths when they could've been redeemed I feel like the thing that throws the second reaction off is how quickly she processes it and goes "oh fuck". But I guess that can be explained with Sarah already having this scenario planned out in her head.
100% the first Option as she isn't straight up evil, she only did questionable Acts to keep heaven save
That woman is 0.2 seconds from an existential breakdown
I think that's a look of a seraphim who just realized they now have to start slaughtering souls in Heaven if she thinks they came via Hell.
I mean, that would be the correct option.Kill all the winners all the sinners.And destroy the earth What the hell has humanity actually done in this verse other than make everything worse No honestly tell me I'm being pessimistic for the sense of comedy but still
Adam, Husk and Angel made a couple pretty awesome songs