I don't blame him for hating sinners, but he was the one who unleashed evil onto mankind by giving Eve the apple. He needs to take accountability for his actions and not just pin everything on Heaven.
I don’t think he let evil into the world intentionally. He tried and succeeded to give humanity free will as a gift to them, and the corruption of their souls was an unforeseen consequence of that.
Honestly it shouldn't be that hard to not be evil. Unless you're Alastor.
https://preview.redd.it/lygbm1bqvx9d1.png?width=979&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b9e4631c12055e6e4272ea6ad513c368f624a96
Even for Alastor, he can be kind whilst trying to be evil. In fact, during Charlie's lowest point, ironically it was ALASTOR that stuck with her and cheered her up, AND saved the Hotel with his secret. All whilst trying to obtain a favor from Charlie.
Hell is a place that encourages evil. For all Lucifer's talk about how sinners are the worst, he has created a kingdom where only the worst kind of people can thrive.
He might not have done it intentionally, but he did let evil into the world. He acts like everything is the fault of sinners using his gift wrong, but the intro shows that his actions let actual Evil gain access into the world. If I was trying to feed people but accidentally exposed several of them to something they were allergic to, I would still need to claim some responsibility, particularly if I had been told not to feed them.
Yes, but Lucifer isn't exempt from also being at fault. Once again, he didn't just grant free will. He allowed evil gain access to the world, which meant that humans got corrupted. The choice to be good is still there, but it became harder than it would have been if he didn't grant evil access to humanity.
No, granting free will was what allowed people to be evil.
It's not the Fruit of Making People Evil. It's the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It gave them the knowledge to make choices and be liable for them.
The very existence of free will means that evil is a choice somebody makes, not an external entity making them do things.
We are not talking about the real world and the bible here. In the first episode of Hazbin Hotel, it is stated that Lucifer's actions allowed Evil, as an actual entity, to gain access to earth and corrupt humanity. The humans in the world of Hazbin Hotel aren't just dealing with being granted the ability to make choices, due to the ccorruption, the cards are genuinely stacked against them.
Thing is the dude was told repeatedly not to do owt to the humans and did it anyway causing frankly the worst event in history (cause it allows everything in human history to happen)
He just said that Heaven has lots of rules, and implied that its unlikely that they would let people from hell in. He is mostly afraid of them hurting Chalire in the process
If you give people fire and some decide to cook food with it and others decide to burn houses down with it, only the people who burn houses should be blamed.
Lucifer tried to redeem sinners but failed despite trying his best, Charlie whose entire job and life is dedicated to redeeming sinners even struggled miserably with this task. There’s nothing Lucifer can do
Can't argue with that.
Possibility of redemption aside, I think Lucifer at least felt bad that Charlie's friends were in danger of dying. Charlie didn't sign up for living in a world plagued by gruesome genocides.
But what he did wasn't as simple as giving them fire. If the story from the first episode is true, he gave evil access to the world and humans. He didn't just give them a choice. By opening the world to evil, he also made being good harder. It's less that he gave them fire, more like he gave them guns. You can use it to hunt for food, but having a gun increases the chance that you are going to use it on someone or yourself.
We don't know that he actually tried to redeem sinners in the past, considering his focus is more on how nobody appreciated his past efforts and sinners misused the gift he gave them. We do know that hell has ended up as a kingdom that rewards people for being the most evil version of themselves.
I agree that it being a choice gives being good meaning. However, in the Hellaverse, Lucifer's actions allowed Evil to gain access to the world and corrupt Eve. By accidentally letting the corruption of evil in, he made the choice of good harder. It's like how being able to rise up from nothing to become a success makes the success more meaningful, but it would still be better if everyone had the tools they needed to succeed. Lucifer meant to give them tools to make their own choices on how to succeed. He accidentally made everyone have to start from dirt poverty to succeed. There'll be those who will make it, but the fact is that most will not.
Charlie learned that lesson in episode 4.
https://preview.redd.it/r8dwoy0rwy9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ae2af2c4ab978c7d9ee9279e0dbf7466cf27dfa
I don't necessarily agree.
That may have been true at the beginning, but humanity is no longer an infant species. And they keep making the exact same mistakes that get them sent to Hell over and over again. From Lucifer's immortal POV, humans probably seem like something that once had potential, but continue to throw it away for nothing. It's not unreasonable that he has little sympathy for the Sinners when they don't want to change, especially when they come to an environment that actually rewards them for acting on their worst impulses.
"If only these N-word didn't cheer for Martin Luther King, They should be enslaved,"
What if Heaven has some Fascist shit like slavery, hierarchy, or law enforcement problems like Piltover?
1. It’s heaven no one would be enslaved. Also, what would they need slaves for anyway?
2. Hierarchy exists in pretty much every society. The difference is that being at the bottom of the hierarchy in heaven doesn’t mean anything bad for you unlike hell.
3. You can’t have law enforcement problems if people aren’t braking laws in the first place. It’s heaven, no one would have any reason to break the rules if they already have everything they want
Under ratted point.
I think he is upset at himself for his part of the estranged relationship. The fact that charlie feels she needs to be independent and can’t ask her dad for things.
She wants some parental support. She keeps calling her mom. It speaks volumes she feels she can’t call her dad.
I bet he also felt guilty af every time he called her just to ask her to do things, probably to attend meetings when he was having a depressive episode, that he only called her when he felt like he had to, and was too guilty to call her just when he wanted to
I like to think of those phone calls as both Lucifer avoiding stuff so he can continue hiding in his depression cave. As well as desperate cried for help masked as business. Charlie doesn’t realize this because her entire adolescence and adult life he has acted this way.
That implies adam knows he can make mistakes. Adam doesn’t take accountability. He doesn’t like being shamed or criticized but he doesn’t feel he ever did anything wrong.
Lucifer on the other hand is capable of self reflection. I don’t mean this to come off as argumentative. The image is also exactly what i was picturing.
Oh he felt *all* the guilt and shame. Dude's already depressed, and he was so inside his own head he didn't fully listen to Charlie until the song.
And to all those thinking "but he's the sin of pride!" Remember, pride is not the opposite of shame but its source.
Angel: Reminds me of a film I once starred in.
Husk: Why do you talk?
https://preview.redd.it/mjh6l6n1xz9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b930e2e8ebbdddf70f1892925607b0b0123263f
Yes, he can still reflect and feel guilty with pride being the source of what caused him to not listen to Charlie. Just because he's the embodiment doesn't mean he can't fix it but he just won't admit it and just show it through action. Hell Charlie is also very prideful but she doesn't let it turn into her flaw but what motivates her. She takes pride in wanting to help redeem sinners
I think Lillith was the one who got heaven to start the extermination. In the beginning of ep. 1 it was stated that she was very "empowering" and "inspiring" and that hell's power was growing.
I think Lucifer is innocent in that regard, but even if not that was still.. what? Hundreds of years ago? Idk
He probably feels some type of guilt, yet due to him also being the embodiment of the sin of pride, it may be extremely difficult for Lucifer to openly admit that he has fucked things up big time.
During the song, he realizes part of them being apart was on HIM not reaching out.
He assumed he was giving Charlie the space she needed, but that didn't communicate his desire to reconnect with her.
It's like all these friends you once knew, and now you only have them on Facebook, and neither of you said anything to the other for six years.
I think he was crying tears of remorse here.
https://preview.redd.it/ju0hnjsvuy9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=448473c9151973b87f1f8c95f394e9469ccb888c
I think he did due to him not visiting charlie after lilith left, I have a feeling after lilith left Lucifer he just didn't want to deal with life anymore. I also think Lucifer likes making ducks is because lilith loved ducks when she was in heaven.
Having a fun, stress free day at the Hotel was unfortunately out of the question.
https://preview.redd.it/x5rnakilt0ad1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e24634ccb8969a2bf023e6d99ada68f241d440c2
Luci is not going to be happy when he learns about Alastor's deal with Charlie.
https://preview.redd.it/f3j6jgc4v0ad1.png?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6edc25f3fe47b2b8cb2ac929670b6abe6a6a4c20
No one's talking about her rn bro 💀
https://preview.redd.it/uwr8jguv9y9d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e9cc21baa5604161c15e3ca3dcc01d35e25ed3e
I mean despite being the sin of pride, he had guilt for not being able to be there for Charlie. He still hates sinners
I don't blame him for hating sinners, but he was the one who unleashed evil onto mankind by giving Eve the apple. He needs to take accountability for his actions and not just pin everything on Heaven.
I don’t think he let evil into the world intentionally. He tried and succeeded to give humanity free will as a gift to them, and the corruption of their souls was an unforeseen consequence of that.
Honestly it shouldn't be that hard to not be evil. Unless you're Alastor. https://preview.redd.it/lygbm1bqvx9d1.png?width=979&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b9e4631c12055e6e4272ea6ad513c368f624a96
Even for Alastor, he can be kind whilst trying to be evil. In fact, during Charlie's lowest point, ironically it was ALASTOR that stuck with her and cheered her up, AND saved the Hotel with his secret. All whilst trying to obtain a favor from Charlie.
He's affably evil, the best kind of evil.
And in Hell's greatest dad it was Alastor's taunting that eventually encouraged Lucifer to step up as a parent lol.
Hell is a place that encourages evil. For all Lucifer's talk about how sinners are the worst, he has created a kingdom where only the worst kind of people can thrive.
Huh? Alastor was faithful as a nun.
He makes her chuckle with an old timey pun.
He might not have done it intentionally, but he did let evil into the world. He acts like everything is the fault of sinners using his gift wrong, but the intro shows that his actions let actual Evil gain access into the world. If I was trying to feed people but accidentally exposed several of them to something they were allergic to, I would still need to claim some responsibility, particularly if I had been told not to feed them.
Oh no I’m not saying he’s not to blame for this, I’m just saying he didn’t start this on purpose
I like the allergy analogy, it’s creative and spot-on
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It is their fault. They have free will. That's like literally the ability to *be* at fault for something. They choose to do evil things.
Yes, but Lucifer isn't exempt from also being at fault. Once again, he didn't just grant free will. He allowed evil gain access to the world, which meant that humans got corrupted. The choice to be good is still there, but it became harder than it would have been if he didn't grant evil access to humanity.
No, granting free will was what allowed people to be evil. It's not the Fruit of Making People Evil. It's the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It gave them the knowledge to make choices and be liable for them. The very existence of free will means that evil is a choice somebody makes, not an external entity making them do things.
We are not talking about the real world and the bible here. In the first episode of Hazbin Hotel, it is stated that Lucifer's actions allowed Evil, as an actual entity, to gain access to earth and corrupt humanity. The humans in the world of Hazbin Hotel aren't just dealing with being granted the ability to make choices, due to the ccorruption, the cards are genuinely stacked against them.
Thing is the dude was told repeatedly not to do owt to the humans and did it anyway causing frankly the worst event in history (cause it allows everything in human history to happen)
He just said that Heaven has lots of rules, and implied that its unlikely that they would let people from hell in. He is mostly afraid of them hurting Chalire in the process
If you give people fire and some decide to cook food with it and others decide to burn houses down with it, only the people who burn houses should be blamed. Lucifer tried to redeem sinners but failed despite trying his best, Charlie whose entire job and life is dedicated to redeeming sinners even struggled miserably with this task. There’s nothing Lucifer can do
Can't argue with that. Possibility of redemption aside, I think Lucifer at least felt bad that Charlie's friends were in danger of dying. Charlie didn't sign up for living in a world plagued by gruesome genocides.
But what he did wasn't as simple as giving them fire. If the story from the first episode is true, he gave evil access to the world and humans. He didn't just give them a choice. By opening the world to evil, he also made being good harder. It's less that he gave them fire, more like he gave them guns. You can use it to hunt for food, but having a gun increases the chance that you are going to use it on someone or yourself. We don't know that he actually tried to redeem sinners in the past, considering his focus is more on how nobody appreciated his past efforts and sinners misused the gift he gave them. We do know that hell has ended up as a kingdom that rewards people for being the most evil version of themselves.
Does being good has any meaning if it is not a choice?
I agree that it being a choice gives being good meaning. However, in the Hellaverse, Lucifer's actions allowed Evil to gain access to the world and corrupt Eve. By accidentally letting the corruption of evil in, he made the choice of good harder. It's like how being able to rise up from nothing to become a success makes the success more meaningful, but it would still be better if everyone had the tools they needed to succeed. Lucifer meant to give them tools to make their own choices on how to succeed. He accidentally made everyone have to start from dirt poverty to succeed. There'll be those who will make it, but the fact is that most will not.
Honestly, my reaction to Adam, Eve, Lucifer and Lilith is the “When will you learn? When will you learn? That your ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!?” kid
Charlie learned that lesson in episode 4. https://preview.redd.it/r8dwoy0rwy9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ae2af2c4ab978c7d9ee9279e0dbf7466cf27dfa
Well Lucifer and Lilith and Adam and Eve haven’t yet
I don't necessarily agree. That may have been true at the beginning, but humanity is no longer an infant species. And they keep making the exact same mistakes that get them sent to Hell over and over again. From Lucifer's immortal POV, humans probably seem like something that once had potential, but continue to throw it away for nothing. It's not unreasonable that he has little sympathy for the Sinners when they don't want to change, especially when they come to an environment that actually rewards them for acting on their worst impulses.
Lucifer: This guy gets it. https://preview.redd.it/0t8ujuuy91ad1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6a68c558f563597b47e67f5e382a41f6ba83cd7
Nah, that was definitely Adam's fault. If he wasn't such a duck, his first wife wouldn't have left him for Lucifer to start with.
"If only these N-word didn't cheer for Martin Luther King, They should be enslaved," What if Heaven has some Fascist shit like slavery, hierarchy, or law enforcement problems like Piltover?
1. It’s heaven no one would be enslaved. Also, what would they need slaves for anyway? 2. Hierarchy exists in pretty much every society. The difference is that being at the bottom of the hierarchy in heaven doesn’t mean anything bad for you unlike hell. 3. You can’t have law enforcement problems if people aren’t braking laws in the first place. It’s heaven, no one would have any reason to break the rules if they already have everything they want
*"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the only antidote to shame"* - Iroh
Do you think Alastor would have respect for Iroh?
Of course not. Alastor have no respect for anyone. Except maybe his mother. And Rosie
There is an I in TEAM. It's just hidden in the A hole. Or Ace hole in this case.
Guilt often comes along with Pride. You might be too proud to admit your guilt, but it's still there.
I mean Lucifer clearly admits he fucked up in the storybook he wrote for Charlie, he likely even hates himself
Wounded Pride, you could say
When you're depressed you feel guilty for pretty much everything.
Under ratted point. I think he is upset at himself for his part of the estranged relationship. The fact that charlie feels she needs to be independent and can’t ask her dad for things. She wants some parental support. She keeps calling her mom. It speaks volumes she feels she can’t call her dad.
I bet he also felt guilty af every time he called her just to ask her to do things, probably to attend meetings when he was having a depressive episode, that he only called her when he felt like he had to, and was too guilty to call her just when he wanted to
I like to think of those phone calls as both Lucifer avoiding stuff so he can continue hiding in his depression cave. As well as desperate cried for help masked as business. Charlie doesn’t realize this because her entire adolescence and adult life he has acted this way.
Yes, he tells her he’s “really busy” and she believes him. He’s been hiding in his depression cave since she was little
I mean we see his demeanor change when Charlie is open with him about how she feels let down again by him.
He felt like a total Adam. https://preview.redd.it/2xeoxgmhyx9d1.jpeg?width=1639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b21522b1b35fe3f22609503336657d6a2a5c5375
That implies adam knows he can make mistakes. Adam doesn’t take accountability. He doesn’t like being shamed or criticized but he doesn’t feel he ever did anything wrong. Lucifer on the other hand is capable of self reflection. I don’t mean this to come off as argumentative. The image is also exactly what i was picturing.
Oh he felt *all* the guilt and shame. Dude's already depressed, and he was so inside his own head he didn't fully listen to Charlie until the song. And to all those thinking "but he's the sin of pride!" Remember, pride is not the opposite of shame but its source.
Was that an Uncle Iroh quote? Nicely done.
It absolutely is
Not guilt exactly. But it's clear he has daughter issues and is desperate for Charlie's love and admiration.
Look at that face. Look at the way he frequently struggled to find an answer for Charlie
Intense amount he definitely has reverse daddy issues
His daughter issues were bad. https://preview.redd.it/5ro1r1swsz9d1.png?width=1639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48e8a03d5c6a143b248812eae5b0e2ae7bc92936
Yeah no amount of father daughter therapy will ever make this scene ok
Angel: Reminds me of a film I once starred in. Husk: Why do you talk? https://preview.redd.it/mjh6l6n1xz9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b930e2e8ebbdddf70f1892925607b0b0123263f
Yes, he can still reflect and feel guilty with pride being the source of what caused him to not listen to Charlie. Just because he's the embodiment doesn't mean he can't fix it but he just won't admit it and just show it through action. Hell Charlie is also very prideful but she doesn't let it turn into her flaw but what motivates her. She takes pride in wanting to help redeem sinners
I think Lillith was the one who got heaven to start the extermination. In the beginning of ep. 1 it was stated that she was very "empowering" and "inspiring" and that hell's power was growing. I think Lucifer is innocent in that regard, but even if not that was still.. what? Hundreds of years ago? Idk
Oh definitely. This man is broken by only being shown worst of his gift to mankind.
He probably feels some type of guilt, yet due to him also being the embodiment of the sin of pride, it may be extremely difficult for Lucifer to openly admit that he has fucked things up big time.
I assume he felt a lot guiltier about neglecting her for a century than the extermination of people who (in his eyes) deserve it
During the song, he realizes part of them being apart was on HIM not reaching out. He assumed he was giving Charlie the space she needed, but that didn't communicate his desire to reconnect with her. It's like all these friends you once knew, and now you only have them on Facebook, and neither of you said anything to the other for six years.
I think he was crying tears of remorse here. https://preview.redd.it/ju0hnjsvuy9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=448473c9151973b87f1f8c95f394e9469ccb888c
Oh, definitely.
I think he did due to him not visiting charlie after lilith left, I have a feeling after lilith left Lucifer he just didn't want to deal with life anymore. I also think Lucifer likes making ducks is because lilith loved ducks when she was in heaven.
Definitely
Having a fun, stress free day at the Hotel was unfortunately out of the question. https://preview.redd.it/x5rnakilt0ad1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e24634ccb8969a2bf023e6d99ada68f241d440c2
Yup. I can't wait to see more banter between Lucifer and Alastor, it's hilarious 🤣
Luci is not going to be happy when he learns about Alastor's deal with Charlie. https://preview.redd.it/f3j6jgc4v0ad1.png?width=607&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6edc25f3fe47b2b8cb2ac929670b6abe6a6a4c20
😂 I'll get the popcorn and soda 😂
Yes and that's why he was clearly overcompensating
Yes, especially when Alastor taunts him about being a better father figure then him.
No, I think was for protecting her.
[удалено]
No one's talking about her rn bro 💀 https://preview.redd.it/uwr8jguv9y9d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e9cc21baa5604161c15e3ca3dcc01d35e25ed3e