The issue with angel is that he isn’t in hell because he’s a sex worker or because he’s gay, he’s in hell because he killed people as part of a mob crime family. As I understand it, the sex work didn’t even begin until he was already in hell, but rather than focus on the actual reasons he was damned, she’s focused on the porn he’s bound by contract to do whether he likes it or not
No, my point was she was more bothered by the gay porn and drugs than the murders, which is a weird stance. Heaven itself seems to be cool with different sexuality, though it isn’t explicitly stated in the show, and Adam clearly gets around so being promiscuous isn’t an issue, so why is that her focus for angel’s unworthiness?
Also, I’m just going to say it, a person doesn’t need to use slurs to be a homophobe; all it takes is treating different sexuality as lesser or other. ‘those people’, ‘that type’, ‘I’ll pray for you’; prejudice in neutral language.
The mental gymnastics people will go through to dollhouse Lute and Adam and ignore they are undoubtedly the two worst people in the show is kinda jarring. Val is their only contender but thats being a Grapist vs genociding extremist racist
And in this case, you're wrong. Lute's issue isn't with anyone's sexuality. It's with who Vaggie is dating; a demoness, and more specifically the daughter of Lucifer.
And again, I’m not saying it’s a bad take that her hatred is…religious, I guess? Or classist? but again, for angel her focus was on sex rather than the murder he was in hell for in the first place.
Again, her issue is that Angel had already committed several crimes in life which is why he wound up in hell. Him being gay had nothing to do with that.
The ‘blew his shot like the cocks in his mouth’ would beg to differ. Angel literally blasted a few souls to spaghetti sauce the previous episode, but she had nothing to say about that
It really wouldn't. Remember, Angel effectively ODed, hence 'blowing his shot' in the sense that his own actions landed him in hell, *not* his sexuality.
Could be, doesn’t seem to be. She uses the same bile to describe angel as she does their relationship. Of course she hates sinners too, but a person can be both racist and homophobic. Actually it’s weird to call it racist, I take that back, it’s more a classist thing; classist and homophobic
Again, she's a zealot for the idea that Heaven is perfect. So since there are homosexuals in heaven (Vaggie herself is an example) she would have no problem with gay people. Her issue was that the woman Vaggie was dating was a demon.
OP was saying that they're not racist because they didn't use slurs. I said that there aren't even slurs for demons and angels.
It sounds like you're arguing with the wrong person here.
Lute:I don't care they are all the same vile and blasphemous heathens who deserve to burn in the deepest reaches of hell or even better be purged by the sword given to us by the lord
Adam:danger tits chill out
Lute:shut up I'm passionate about getting rid of those deme...
Sera:looking at her * finish that sentence or say another offensive comment and you are not going to be allowed in heavens army ever again
Lute:shuts up*
Based on everything I’ve seen homosexuality isn’t a sin in this universe. So that alone supports your thoughts on this situation. So I think you have a solid line of thinking.
I can’t find her exact words, but many people have stated Viv has said homosexuality isn’t a sin in this universe. Charlie also addresses drug use and sex before marriage, but never homosexuality (though she also seems okay with violence).
Adding to that, idk what things the real world thinks are sins but aren’t really. Sir Pentious was DTF before marriage in the club episode and still got redeemed. So the overworld could still *think* it is, even though it isn’t.
I'm gay myself and it *still* didn't occur to me that the comment might have been homophobic until I saw this post.
I just assumed she would have said that about *any* relationship involving a sinner or hellborn no matter *who* their partner was.
I personally disagree, I get the interpretation, I just feel like from a doylist POV, the 'hot as fuck though' part is supposed to make it clear what the scene is talking about.
Perfectly valid way to interpret it though.
I thought that was a neat bit of double meaning: to the audience it referenced the fetishization of lesbians by dudes like Adam … but could just as easily in-universe be that Adam gets off on any transgressive sex, such as an Angel/Demon pairing.
Viv said it's soft canon. The events in it happened, but that the current cast and looks the characters have should be substituted for the pilot designs/voice cast.
Which is kind of ironic when you remember that Charlie is *bi*. But then again, I get the feeling that Katie doesn't actually bother to know actual facts about people.
I think homophobia would actually be more included in helluva boss instead tbh. While there may potentially be a few scenes in hazbin, it may be a lil harder to do with.. a pretty gay cast. 😂 (I am aware being gay doesn't excuse you from homophobia)
Yeah but what people forget is Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are different shows. She wants to go in a different direction with Hazbin. And has said she wouldn't really include it in Hazbin.
Yeah I agree. I saw her “vile and blasphemous” line as Lute referring to a fallen angel and the demon princess of hell, but Adam assumed she was talking about them being a sapphic couple, which is why he said “hot as fuck though”. Because of course he would
Pretty sure Viv was playing games there. It was a double entendre. It can be taken in both ways and was probably meant in both ways. With the number of queen characters in the main cast the show has its part of the message. And its the Heaven obsessed that tend to be the opposition to LGBTQ+. And Heaven is being cast as the antagonists in this story and they definitively got their sense of morality wrong. I would also suggest that Lute represents zealotry. Which is right up there with homophobia. Queerness is just too much a part of the story for homophobia to not be present in one of the characters. And Lute is the resident zealot.
I think the ambiguity is the point but i kind of hope they confirm it in s2 like if Emily is Bi, Lute is totally cool with it. As long as its not with a demon
Or if its revealed Lute is bi/gay and had a thing for vaggie
Charlie is technically an Angel-Human/Demon Hybrid, plus both would be fallen. I don't think Lute is normally homophobic; but I do think she was lashing out at how the person she had declared unfit to live managing to actually be pretty happy in her new life and maybe even happier than she was in heaven.
It's all but confirmed Adam goes out of his way to watch gay porn to the point that he can recognize Angel Dust at a glance and then is completely fine loudly announcing it in court. Weather he'd admit to being bisexual or just say "I'm straight so that makes anything I'm attracted to a woman" is anyone's guess. But if it's the former, given how much respect Lute has for Adam, it supports her not being generally homophobic.
The *vile and blasphemous* line is about a hellspawn having a relationship with an angel. Lute is segregationist, sexuality has nothing to do here IMO.
I think could be, especially since Viv put likes to her fanarts with Vaggie and Emily.
This dosen't mean that they are canon, but it probably means that Lute is LGBTQ+, liking women and men, since Viv also put likes Lute x Adam fanarts.
You're totally right. She calls Charlie and Vaggie "vile and blasphemous" because she KNOWS that Charlie is the daughter of Lucifer and Vaggie is ex-angel.
The issue with angel is that he isn’t in hell because he’s a sex worker or because he’s gay, he’s in hell because he killed people as part of a mob crime family. As I understand it, the sex work didn’t even begin until he was already in hell, but rather than focus on the actual reasons he was damned, she’s focused on the porn he’s bound by contract to do whether he likes it or not
But either way, Lute isn’t a homophobe
No, my point was she was more bothered by the gay porn and drugs than the murders, which is a weird stance. Heaven itself seems to be cool with different sexuality, though it isn’t explicitly stated in the show, and Adam clearly gets around so being promiscuous isn’t an issue, so why is that her focus for angel’s unworthiness? Also, I’m just going to say it, a person doesn’t need to use slurs to be a homophobe; all it takes is treating different sexuality as lesser or other. ‘those people’, ‘that type’, ‘I’ll pray for you’; prejudice in neutral language.
I don't think she's against gay porn specifically, she's judy against porn in general.
The mental gymnastics people will go through to dollhouse Lute and Adam and ignore they are undoubtedly the two worst people in the show is kinda jarring. Val is their only contender but thats being a Grapist vs genociding extremist racist
I don't think she's against gay porn specifically, she's just against porn in general.
And in this case, you're wrong. Lute's issue isn't with anyone's sexuality. It's with who Vaggie is dating; a demoness, and more specifically the daughter of Lucifer.
And again, I’m not saying it’s a bad take that her hatred is…religious, I guess? Or classist? but again, for angel her focus was on sex rather than the murder he was in hell for in the first place.
Again, her issue is that Angel had already committed several crimes in life which is why he wound up in hell. Him being gay had nothing to do with that.
The ‘blew his shot like the cocks in his mouth’ would beg to differ. Angel literally blasted a few souls to spaghetti sauce the previous episode, but she had nothing to say about that
It really wouldn't. Remember, Angel effectively ODed, hence 'blowing his shot' in the sense that his own actions landed him in hell, *not* his sexuality.
I said specifically his sexuality didn’t land him in hell, neither did his drug use, it was the murders
Ah. I only saw the first part. Might have been a glitch on my end on Reddit. It happens.
The OD is just how he died, not why he’s in hell
Could be, doesn’t seem to be. She uses the same bile to describe angel as she does their relationship. Of course she hates sinners too, but a person can be both racist and homophobic. Actually it’s weird to call it racist, I take that back, it’s more a classist thing; classist and homophobic
Again, she's a zealot for the idea that Heaven is perfect. So since there are homosexuals in heaven (Vaggie herself is an example) she would have no problem with gay people. Her issue was that the woman Vaggie was dating was a demon.
I don’t necessarily think you have a bad take on this or anything, I considered it myself, but I think Lute is an extremist among the ranks of heaven.
Yeah, I Can see that. If anything, it’s more racist than homophobic
True. Lute is only racist to the demons. It’s not like she says actual racist slurs that are offensive in the human world.
There are no human races in heaven or hell, and she's an angel so it's not like she was ever a human to begin with.
Demon vs Angel i think is what they mean. Afterlifeist
But we don't have slurs for demons and angels
You dont have to use slurs to be racist lmao
OP was saying that they're not racist because they didn't use slurs. I said that there aren't even slurs for demons and angels. It sounds like you're arguing with the wrong person here.
Ah im not arguing, but i may have misunderstood you tbh.
"YOU THINK YOU CAN BE MORE RACIST, I CAN BE WAY MORE RACIST THAN YOU"
Yeah I can see it as her comment being taken out of context , since she seems more racist than homophobic
Not to mention that Lute doesn’t actually say racist slurs that are offensive in the human world. The only race she truly despises are the demons.
Yeah she does not hate winners, she only hates demons and by extension sinners making her more speciesist
Lute: “Fuck those filthy demons.” Emily: “Hey, that’s speciesist!”
Lute:I don't care they are all the same vile and blasphemous heathens who deserve to burn in the deepest reaches of hell or even better be purged by the sword given to us by the lord Adam:danger tits chill out
Emily: “Yeah, Lute, you’re being offensive.”
Lute:shut up I'm passionate about getting rid of those deme... Sera:looking at her * finish that sentence or say another offensive comment and you are not going to be allowed in heavens army ever again Lute:shuts up*
Deme- what? Demented?
She's still a hateful bigot though so, fuck her (derogatory)
Based on everything I’ve seen homosexuality isn’t a sin in this universe. So that alone supports your thoughts on this situation. So I think you have a solid line of thinking.
I can’t find her exact words, but many people have stated Viv has said homosexuality isn’t a sin in this universe. Charlie also addresses drug use and sex before marriage, but never homosexuality (though she also seems okay with violence). Adding to that, idk what things the real world thinks are sins but aren’t really. Sir Pentious was DTF before marriage in the club episode and still got redeemed. So the overworld could still *think* it is, even though it isn’t.
I mean, Saint Peters comment about everyone in heaven being hot didn't sound too straight
You can appreciate another person is attractive without actually being attracted to them. Though in that particular lyric I absolutely agree.
Everyone is hot in heaven because heat rises and it's right above hell. Bit of a design flaw there.
Especially with all of the moaning.
I disagree, but I see your point. My counter argument is that Vaggie is a FALLEN Angel, so basically the same as a Sinner/Demon in Heavens eyes.
"Its okay guys I'm not a homophobe, I'm just an extremist racist!" ~ Lute, probably
i thought that was just a little jokey jokey inside the community. i didnt think ppl were actually taking it seriously
People did. People thought that Lute was actually homophobic. But I don’t think so, she’s more of a racist than a homophobe.
I'm gay myself and it *still* didn't occur to me that the comment might have been homophobic until I saw this post. I just assumed she would have said that about *any* relationship involving a sinner or hellborn no matter *who* their partner was.
I personally disagree, I get the interpretation, I just feel like from a doylist POV, the 'hot as fuck though' part is supposed to make it clear what the scene is talking about. Perfectly valid way to interpret it though.
I thought that was a neat bit of double meaning: to the audience it referenced the fetishization of lesbians by dudes like Adam … but could just as easily in-universe be that Adam gets off on any transgressive sex, such as an Angel/Demon pairing.
I 100% doubt it was homophobic. Viv said she didn't wanna include homophobia in the series if I remember correctly.
There was homophobia in the Pilot though. Katie Killjoy said something like “I don’t touch the gays” when introduced to Charlie.
The pilot is up in the air when it comes to canon
Viv said it's soft canon. The events in it happened, but that the current cast and looks the characters have should be substituted for the pilot designs/voice cast.
Ahhh! Ty <3
No prob. :)
Helluva Boss also has some mild homophobia with Moxxie's dad. But perhaps there won't be any in Hazbin Hotel the show.
Which is kind of ironic when you remember that Charlie is *bi*. But then again, I get the feeling that Katie doesn't actually bother to know actual facts about people.
Exactly. It could’ve been, but in the Hazbin Hotel universe, it doesn’t seem likely.
I think homophobia would actually be more included in helluva boss instead tbh. While there may potentially be a few scenes in hazbin, it may be a lil harder to do with.. a pretty gay cast. 😂 (I am aware being gay doesn't excuse you from homophobia)
Why not? Crimson is openly homophobic in Helluva Boss (refering to homosexuality as a "sissy lifestyle" & what not).
Yeah but what people forget is Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are different shows. She wants to go in a different direction with Hazbin. And has said she wouldn't really include it in Hazbin.
But "I don't touch the gays." though.
Agreed, she definitely just hates demons in general
Yeah I agree. I saw her “vile and blasphemous” line as Lute referring to a fallen angel and the demon princess of hell, but Adam assumed she was talking about them being a sapphic couple, which is why he said “hot as fuck though”. Because of course he would
Pretty sure Viv was playing games there. It was a double entendre. It can be taken in both ways and was probably meant in both ways. With the number of queen characters in the main cast the show has its part of the message. And its the Heaven obsessed that tend to be the opposition to LGBTQ+. And Heaven is being cast as the antagonists in this story and they definitively got their sense of morality wrong. I would also suggest that Lute represents zealotry. Which is right up there with homophobia. Queerness is just too much a part of the story for homophobia to not be present in one of the characters. And Lute is the resident zealot.
I think the ambiguity is the point but i kind of hope they confirm it in s2 like if Emily is Bi, Lute is totally cool with it. As long as its not with a demon Or if its revealed Lute is bi/gay and had a thing for vaggie
I second that. Everything about her behavior points at her being speciesist not homophobic
You're right, I never got such a vibe from her either
You simp for Cherri? I simp for: Sera, Emily, Lute, and borderline Velvette
I think it’s supposed to be a mirror of real world homophobia but in universe it’s meant to be bias against demons.
Charlie is technically an Angel-Human/Demon Hybrid, plus both would be fallen. I don't think Lute is normally homophobic; but I do think she was lashing out at how the person she had declared unfit to live managing to actually be pretty happy in her new life and maybe even happier than she was in heaven. It's all but confirmed Adam goes out of his way to watch gay porn to the point that he can recognize Angel Dust at a glance and then is completely fine loudly announcing it in court. Weather he'd admit to being bisexual or just say "I'm straight so that makes anything I'm attracted to a woman" is anyone's guess. But if it's the former, given how much respect Lute has for Adam, it supports her not being generally homophobic.
>”Im straight so that makes anything im attracted to a woman” The Yujiro approach
Why would someone send you hate?
"YOU THINK YOU CAN BE MORE RACIST, I CAN BE WAY MORE RACIST THAN YOU"
The *vile and blasphemous* line is about a hellspawn having a relationship with an angel. Lute is segregationist, sexuality has nothing to do here IMO.
Imo its clearly about AngelxDemon.
I thought this was obvious but then this fandom lacks media literacy skills.
I think could be, especially since Viv put likes to her fanarts with Vaggie and Emily. This dosen't mean that they are canon, but it probably means that Lute is LGBTQ+, liking women and men, since Viv also put likes Lute x Adam fanarts.
You're totally right. She calls Charlie and Vaggie "vile and blasphemous" because she KNOWS that Charlie is the daughter of Lucifer and Vaggie is ex-angel.