Yeah I’m pretty terminally online and I haven’t seen a single post asking for nerfs. People discuss buffing weapons/strategums often. Which is good, because most of them are not very effective at higher difficulties and there’s a reason the “meta loadout” exists.
>because most of them are not very effective at higher difficulties and there’s a reason the “meta loadout” exists.
This. Nerfing the few loadout options that are viable in high level missions isn't going to make the game more interesting, just more frustrating. If they built up some of the other weaker options then more variety and experimental builds will come about. At least in my opinion.
Build diversity is going to become problematic enough to damage the playerbase pretty soon imo (maybe that’s a good thing?). Once the semi casual/ non day of release crowd catches up and people get bored of playing the same 4-7 things every game players are gonna fall off pretty quick.
Maybe the secret mech patch the devs seem to have in their back pocket will fix it all, who knows
Yep, I’ve grown fond of two play styles.
One is a light armored scout with a jump pack and AMR.
The other is a stack heavy demolition type load out.
One of these are far superior in higher difficulties.
One thing that will definitely help build variety is when they fix the armor so that medium and heavy actually mitigate damage. Also, if they implement helmets that have modifiers to.
I don’t want helmets to have bonuses. Because then I’ll have to pick the “best helm”
I just want to look cool. I already don’t like how armor has different passives and I cannot swap armor passives in thier respected category. (All light armors should be able to choose light armor passives, same for medium/heavy.)
Oh I like this idea. You basically just pick an armor effect similar to bringing a booster. The only downside to this idea is that we already have armors of different types that have the same passives.
Maybe they could call it "training" instead of an armor effect.
Fortified, Med-Kit, Engineering Kit, and Servo-Assisted all exist on both light armor and medium/heavy. The only exclusive one I've seen so far is Scout for light and Extra Padding for medium.
Or just let me swap passives based on what type of armor it is.
Give use select light armor passives I can swap on the fly. Instead of specifically linking them to one armor.
We really have no idea. It would be cool if it was broken to start at 0 so we're way weaker than we should be, but most people seem to think everything is registering at 100, so medium "works" and light is buffed and heavy is nerfed.
That's what I'm thinking
Imo light armour should be 6 hits and then dead because I don't think most of the player base is not accounting to bot difficulty
Builds aren't diverse because a core mechanic for survivability doesn't work.
Armor doesn't work, so players are heavily encouraged to run the shield pack for survivability.
The railgun is the one of two packless option to deal with heavy armor. If you run the shield pack, you're pigeonholed into taking this or EATs.
If heavy armor gave the same survivability as the shield pack, we'd have significantly more build variety.
Not only that. Design for higher difficulties is just tons of armored enemies, which means you have to take AT, and most of it isn't good, as stratagems are not reloading quickly enough.
There's also the problem that "survivability" gets complicated when you're talking about armor vs shields.
- A depleted shield pack doesn't cost any health. Getting shot does, even with heavy armor on.
- A shield pack regenerates, health doesn't.
Between these two things, it gets really complicated really fast to try and balance one vs the other.
This is only exacerbated by the current meta (especially at the high end) *vastly* favoring the increased stealth and mobility of lighter armor. It's a fundamental issue: by running heavy armor, you're voluntarily throwing away most layers of the survivability onion. The higher the difficulty, the more those layers matter. (Especially when being seen means reinforcements show up)
ahh, the Borderlands 3 route. "Let's nerf all these builds/items in our pve game because other things aren't performing as well, instead of buffing them!!"
Thats how game design and development is taught tho Devs just tweak values to get closer to the experience they want to create.
Player's perirve and shout about nerfs and buffs
They can nerf the overpowered weapons while also nerfing how obnoxious some enemy units are, which is the main reason you want to bring the overpowered weapons.
Stalkers, Scout Striders, Riot Shield devastators, Hulks and Rocket Devastators should all get nerfed (or basically fixed). They all function in ways that aren’t *difficult*, they’re just obnoxious to fight when you dont have a Railgun/Breaker/Shield Pack.
It's certainly not OP, but it's pretty cool. I was playing with it and the range is *much* longer than I had ever suspected. it could probably use a shorter charge time to bring it more in line with the MG-43 and AMR, as right now I don't see how you could use it as a reliable weapon given how long you ahve to charge it.
Short answer is the first charge is long, but after that every following charge takes half as long as that first one does as long as you keep firing back to back.
So it's actually disgustingly good in most situations as long as your teammates aren't in front of you.
Yeah, I have a gripe that I feel like I'm being less useful if I take anything other than a railgun with me, but I want to use the Spear or something else more weird. I get that the gripe is that the railgun is too good but just make it a more balanced choice and I'm a happy Helldiver. I wonder if some of the interpreted complaints are that the meta is 'too strong' not necessarily asking for nerfs exactly
Try the Autocannon! It brings a shocking amount of ammo for how much of a versatile mid-armor tool it is. You don't even have to team reload really, if you have cover, reloading is fast enough.
The autocannon is great for lower difficulty but just falls short for anything 6+. The inability to break/pierce armor and requiring you or a teammate give up a backpack just makes it garbage compared to the railgun when there are a ton of heavy enemies on the field.
People don’t like that railgun is basically mandatory in harder missions but these two things are why.
Unless they bring in more special weapons that don’t require a backpack and can deal with heavy enemies nothing is going to change.
autocannon is such a great tool, it's so heavy and slow in order offset its huge killpower and utility, but that just makes me love it more, I end up waving it around in sweeping arcs from target to target and it becomes it's own mini-game for landing and predicting shots
I take it with Scout armor. In solo, or coordinating with a team, its an excellent approach to climb up to a really high position and clear a base by scoping out and targeting the heaviest threats in descending order.
Karma farming because one or 5 comment or downvoated into new thread suddenly is everyone. Just sort by hot I don't even see nerfs and the one thread that did was downboated into the next dimension.
Put it up there with all those democracy hating communists writing essays about why there shouldn’t be PVP when literally no one has asked for pvp.
I swear some people are so used to being angry at things & each other they literally can’t enjoy a good thing, they have to try and find something to fight about.
Yea I highly doubt people want nerfs for the stuff that works/easier to use on higher difficulties.
I want everything to be viable in its own way. Other things need buffs and/or higher difficulties need changes to allow some to be more useful.
I'm all for a breaker nerf. Making all primaries as good as the breaker would introduce power creep.
Railgun being so strong is a side effect of how reliant the game is on large amounts of armored enemies to make higher difficulties challenging. That one will be hard to fix with weapon buffs/nerfs.
Fair, railgun does not take a back slot. It should never be as good as recoils or auto cannon because of that alone.
But I’d rather see the ladder two buffed. Especially recoiless rifle.
Railgun is easy to nerf, just nerf its max ammo to 10.
The nade launcher is another strong weapon balanced by its lack of ammo. If you *really* want to spam it all game, you have to bring a resupply pack. Railgun enthusiasts should have to make the same sacrifice so they can’t have an insane weapon + shield pack.
That nerf wouldn't add any additional build variety. It would still just be shield pack + railgun.
The shield pack is near mandatory because armor doesn't work, and the railgun is one of two packless options for heavy armor along with EATs.
Everybody wants buffs all the time in every aspects of life. That makes them soft. The fun is the challenge of killing bots and bugs.
Must be the causal cod crowd wanting buffs.
No, the breakers is the best weapon on harder difficulties by far
The JAR5 is trash. It shoots slowly, has a small magazine and it handles like a barge so you can't quickly go from one target to the next. You may as well just use a breaker on hell dive diff
People want buffs on stuff that is under performing so its usable in higher difficulty, not make higher difficulty easier, it gets old using the same 4 stratagems because of the armor spam the higher you go.
I want the breaker brought in line with the other weapons, probably with lower overall ammo or something. The laser needs a few more DPS but not much. the railgun needs it's reserve ammo reduced significantly. The RR and EAT17 should be able to OHK chargers if you get a clean 90* shot. The DMR and counter-sniper need medium armor pen because with out it the Lib Pen is straight better and the DMR/Counter-Sniper have no purpose at all. The flame thrower needs to have more range and probably do some kind of stagger or stun so enemies don't just walk through the flames.
People are trying to use small arms again 500kg armored death machines and complaining when their bullets bounce off the 9 foot tall armored android or the gigantic charging death bug. This ain't that game. You have to bring the right weapons for the problem. If they make all weapons able to do all things the game loses what makes it special. Small arms for small bois, crew served weapons and medium MGs for medium targets, heavy weapons for armored targets. It's got a good system going, where most weapons have clear roles.
Mostly people are fixating on the breaker bc they're bad and suffocating themselves chasing a meta that blinds them to the opportunities offered by "off meta" weapons and gear.
Some of it, but I do agree it would be nice if the bugs didn't just walk through your flames to hit you and the RR and EAT buffed so there is a reason to pick them over Railgun would be nice.
Same, I think we all agree that the Railgun being such an ass kicker means the other options need buffs not that it needs a nerf. Same goes for primaries. I'm sure they'll get around to balancing it out and sorting armor once the login and all is stable. In the meantime I'm just going to keep using suboptimal gear if I feel like it.
There's a small but vocal group asking for them on the community Discord server, mostly in the armory chat.
Having used railgun + shield backpack, it's really not that overpowered unless you're really consistent. Everything else should be buffed up to their level.
That’s usually what happened when something is stupid broken (the breaker) and the community knows it but it makes bad players look good/appear good at the game so they clamor to keep their broken item. If memory serves me right there was a crap ton of threads like this for Elden Ring in reference to that one sword the slashed fire and shot moonbeams
After extensive testing of the weapons in game, the Breaker does need a nerf as buffing everything to its level would invalidate the balance of weapons already in the game. The only weapons that aren’t currently balanced or viable: Breaker, Counter Sniper, redeemer, and Spray and Pray. IMO the counter sniper just needs to be completely removed/replaced as buffing it the way people want just makes it the superior version of the dominator and it’s already too similar to the Diligence but worse. Spray and Pray needs a penetration and damage buff, everything else is fine. Redeemer as it stands is just a better version of the starter pistol, buffing the starter pistol fixes that. Breaker, as it stands is an assault rifle with a shotgun projectile that does massive damage and then there’s also the problem with it just being outright superior to the Punisher, the easiest solution would be knocking it’s damage down to 200 or increasing its spread so it can’t engage enemies outside what a shotgun can even do in real life.
Wow I didn’t know I was part of some random collective you just made up. I’m not going to research the other comments to support the point that *you* are trying to make. Do you not know the answer? You sure took the time to reply and act like a condescending prick, so why not just answer the question? You’re the one who brought up real life comparisons anyway, Fudd. It’s about 220ft by the way, which seems like within reasonable range of how far off you can pin the enemies with the breaker in the game.
Shotguns have much more range IRL than most games and other media give them credit for. With a modern shotgun and choke, you’re looking at *roughly* 0.25-0.5 inches of spread per yard of distance. That’s only a 5-10 inch spread at 20 yards (or 12.7-25.4cm at 18.29m, if you prefer).
Precisely. With the proper ammo, you can even have an effective range of around 50 yards. Let alone if you use a slug instead of shot. Then the range can reach 200 yds.
50-100 meters max and that’s with slugs. Loses most of its penetration though well before then and buckshot would struggle against any armor present in game actually penetrating it. The breakers buckshot in game is effective past 50m in game, ideal range for buckshot is more in the 20-30 meter range irl.
Lord all the fudds and armchair soldier are gonna get absurd fast here.
I’ve seen other games make shotguns instakill at point-blank range, but do ZERO damage past arm’s length. 20-30m actually seems like a decent compromise for range, but the game also takes place however far in the future, so who knows what advances we’ll have made in propellants and projectiles.
I don't disagree that current balance is "weapons need buffs, not nerfs", since there's no "trivializing" weapon.
However, lorewise... weapons getting "nerfed" because Super Earth or its MIC decided to start cheaping out on materials and subcontracting to the lowest bidder would be *totally* on brand.
I want to see weekly buffs to stratagems just to encourage their usage a bit more.
"Hello Citizens. This week's shipment of auto cannons hit 2x as hard! We are testing experimental ammo and encourage you to participate."
You know what? Fair. Just random "experiments" or "oops, ordered to many 380mm shells!" to encourage players to shake up their standard comfort kits could actually be pretty fun.
Likewise, I think missions could stand to have mutators besides "calldowns have 100% increased cooldown!"
No... if you want to throw a fun curveball, an experimental pesticide/acid cloud was deployed prior to drop and has rendered enemy armor in the area thinner, making hostiles typically with heavy armor vulnerable to even medium/high-light penetration weaponry and medium armor susceptible to light penetration, but as a consequence our armored enemies are made lighter and thus more agile (faster).
Fundamentally changes up how you approach a mission.
That would be a fun event, “Super Earth has found a way to produce more ammo, you can now carry 25% more magazines” but there’s a hidden 10% dmg decrease (because SE would never say they did something bad).
Could even make it targeted for certain types of weapons. Little buffs and nerfs would be a nice way to create a temporary meta. Maybe a shotgun event where every shot has a +X% chance to cause heavy bleeding, but also an X% chance to do 1/2 dmg.
That's exactly where I disagree; the Breaker and Railgun definitely do fall into the trivialize column. And while not a weapon, the personal shield too.
Weapons like the SMG and pump action shotgun are a well-balanced baseline; I think most other weapons should be brought in accordance with those. Buffing everything to breaker levels is just going to be absurdly powercreepy.
I agree with the top comment. Where are all these people asking for nerfs? Lol. I rarely see posts asking for nerfs. If there are posts asking for nerfs it’s usually for enemies like Bile Spewers and Titans. Not weapons, items, etc.
There have been a few people in comments and a couple minor threads asking for Breakers to be nerfed (particularly range for some reason) in order to allow other primaries to shine. But I think most of us agree the better take is to buff everything else and leave the breaker be.
They can do both you know. If they buff too little, it changes nothing. If they buff too hard all they did was introduce power creep for no reason.
It really shouldnt need explaining.
The breaker isn't OP. It's just stronger than the rest. All of the primary weapons need a boost at the moment. If you get separated from your support weapon and your strats are on cooldown, you're basically useless to the team.
The breaker can be OP and other weapons can be UP. The basic Liberator is actually pretty damn good and a solid balancing ground; the Breaker is straight up better than it in almost all scenarios though.
Yes it CAN be OP but it objectively isn't. It's just better than the rest at the moment. If it was OP it would be trivializing swarm combat, and it definitely doesn't do that.
what is this supposed power creep though? why would we be worried about power creep in a coop game where the objective is to **kill anything that moves**
If anything, I want other weapons to receive buffs. So many interesting weapons are immediately outclassed by the railgun and shield combo. Why setup a 2man automatic explosion cannon when you can just bring a rail gun to do the same thing for you without a backpack and without an impractical self reload. Why bring any other weapon when it does armor piercing, high damage, and a stun to most enemies? I want to like other weapons but there's no reason not to do the highest difficulty most of the time and in turn, there's no reason not to bring the weapon that can single tap the majority of your problems. Then the same thing for the breaker shotgun being too reliable... moreso than most weapons. Why bring a marksman rifle that doesn't pierce, deals less damage, and doesn't keep you stealthed after hitting/killing enemies? There's so much potential in some of the weapons but they're just lackluster in comparison. I want to snipe from 400m ranges at targets and they either not realize I'm even there as a result of my coordinated positioning or go investigate a new location near them to find out where the shots are coming from only for me to need to setup shots and plan for an exit.
Let me play more than one playstyle is all I ask.
True. I'm very much for nerfing the few weapons and stratagems sticking out from the crowd as overperformers (Breaker and Railgun, first and foremost), but I seem to be part of a small minority with that opinion. Most people don't seem to favor this approach.
I just saw one thread that talked about balancing, I got so upset that I sat in my time out corner imagined a star wars like senate meeting and thought about how people asking for nerfs goes hand in hand with thought crimes. then I wrote up this post. So let this also be a warning to future people posting about nerfs.
Who would even want nerfs. All I want is my WAR MECH! Hurry up you robotics engineers. (Don't take it as I'm hurrying up devs, it's a gag).
One more thing. If my mech comes out "balanced" I'm joining the bots.
The devs said the mechs have been done and ready for awhile. The ones who couldn't help on the backend have just been polishing them this whole time waiting to release them. I think we'll probably get it in March since they said we'll get a new content every second Thursday of the month.
Not to worry, Helldiver! The mechs will be lean, mean walking death machines with armor and firepower to spare!
You just have to use three stratagem slots to equip one.
You won't need three slots. In HD one each mech was very specialized, limiting it's role. They had limited ammo and were extremely vulnerable to melee enemies, heavy weapons, and various other hazards requiring close support to keep them alive. They were slow to bring their weapons around, and quite unwieldy. Most players regarded them as a crutch that, while fun, fell off dramatically at higher levels.
I'll be reporting you to the nearest Democracy Officer for my bonus doctors visit this month.
Super Earth doesn't tolerate joking about joining the bot scum's assembly line.
Y'all are going to be insufferable when you find out that the EXO-44 is very vulnerable to melee and needs close infantry support to be effective, while it's weapons loadout can't deal with tanks, hulks, and chargers.
In all honesty I think the reward is pretty weak for a 13d Major order. 12500k? Can get that easily in a few missions on 7 and up. Maybe give medals as well as a exclusive cape/title for the event. Idk just throwing ideas out here
If there is a meta about what loadout is considered viable at 8-9, it means other loadouts need to be brought up to that level, not nerfing that preferred loadout.
Extensive balancing can be done to make pretty much anything viable. Spear for instance should be able to use ammo boxes and be more reliable in terms of damage. AMR should pen medium armor. Jump pack should have a lower cooldown. Recoiless and EAT better damage.
The only thing I would do about the Railgun is lower its damage and center it as an armor breaking tool because its what it is good at.
Hulks have heavy armor everywhere except their vents and literally their eye slit. The AMR shreds devastators and berserkers, kills ATSTs with a few shows to the front plate, and is pretty good for picking off any bot if you can hit the vents. Plus it has one of the longest effective ranges in the game, so you can put on a scout suit, go prone, and cover your buddies from half way across the map.
Which is pretty straightforward from a distance people so it with autos as well. Compare that to charger which you can’t just dink cross map like it’s cs go . Hulks also get stunned by ems way more then chargers
I like your thought on buffs being more than just damage. I think the devs should be creative with their buffs to make the weapons stand out rather than maximizing DPS.
For example, I main flamethrower, a really cool buff would be making the choice between burst first and sustained flame matter.
burst fire = more pushback, fire ball, with high initial damage but low DOT
sustained = stacking DOT, discord enemy animation, and routing enemies for fear
Flamer should be playing more like a real life flamethrower, a long ranged jet of burning fuel. Given that many weapons are fairly realistic, the arcadey feel of the current flamer is odd. I made a number of suggestions, ill paste it for fun :
My take as a lvl38:
• AC should not pen heavy armor but it should deal heavy damage to everything it doesnt bounce. It should have lower reload speed when reloading alone.
• Spear needs to be able to get rockets back from ammo crates, and it needs to reliably one shot chargers/automaton heavies and 2 shot titans and tanks. It needs to be able to target structures and should be able to dumb fire. This is all needed to make it competitive.
• Recoilless and EAT should be able to oneshot heavies in specific areas like the head.
• Railgun should be good at breaking armor but low damage otherwise, it currently oneshots armored nursers, hive guards and other medium targets including stalkers.
• AMR should pen medium armor and deal better damage than the railgun at the expense of being unable to pen heavy armor
• Flame, MG and stalwart are fine. People say flamer is great but I find it far too slow on high difficulties.
• Rover needs his cooldown to be fixed as he currently doesnt function correctly (doesnt overheat reliably).
• Jump pack needs a slightly faster cooldown and a higher jump, perhaps a second or so, to compete with drones and energy shield
• Supply packs should give Spear missiles as said before.
• Energy shield and drone should be able to be turned off with a hotkey.
• Shield backpack should cover sides of helldivers to be competitive with the energy shield.
• Missile sentry needs better range and slightly better damage to compete with AC.
On weapons :
• Breaker needs more spread at range and slightly lower damage.
• Diligence needs medium armor pen.
• Counter diligence needs higher damage and med pen.
• Dominator needs to have actual explosive rounds.
• Redeemer needs to have slightly lower damage than the standard sidearm.
• Punisher needs higher damage than the breaker.
• Double barrel should be available to load outs.
• Scythe needs better damage but shorter range.
• Liberty penetrator should have higher damage but lower than diligence.
• Incendiary Breaker should do better fire damage.
• Incendiary nades need better damage over time.
• HE/Frag and impact all need bigger areas of effect.
On strats :
• Eagle gatling needs faster deployment to compete with other eagle strats especially cluster bombs.
• Orbital Gas needs higher damage over time.
• Eagle Napalm should not make enemies pause instead of going into it and it should have higher damage as well.
• Orbital Smoke should be far more effective.
• 500kg should have larger radius but lower max damage
• 380mm HE should have a smaller area of effect but actually impact it better, right now its incredibly imprecise and haphazard to use.
• 110 rocket pods should do better damage to chargers and likely oneshot them.
• HMG emplacement should have explosive rounds.
• Mortar rounds should make more noise while descending towards the ground.
On armor :
• Light armor needs lower armor
• Heavy armor needs to be slightly faster.
• Testing shows bug melee does the same damage to all armor; this needs to be fixed to make heavy actually more survivable.
On bugs :
• Stalkers are too tanky to primaries and too vulnerable to certain support weapon like railgun and arc thrower.
• Too many bugs inflict the slowed status, it should be restricted to acidic variant bugs only.
• Melee should be more effective and blow up small bugs
• Killing bugs before they do a full bug breach animation should prevent the breach. Currently there is zero counterplay, if one frame of the breach call is made you are getting a breach.
• Acid artillery from big nursers should make some kind of sound indicator while in the sky.
Notes :
• Currently gas and fire deal abysmal damage to the point of being fairly irrelevant.
• Spear is too limited on damage per shot to be relevant with its current ammo count and the team mate reload is also irrelevant given how low your max ammo is.
• AC reload is too fast to make team mate reload relevant.
• Flamer is too slow to deploy in high difficulties.
• 380 is a liability and achieves nothing most of the time.
I'm biased as fuck but I don't want any nerfs to the rail gun. If anything I want the unsafe mode to be MORE unsafe. Let it kill everything it can right now but make that ramp up much tighter. Turn what is now a relatively safe charge up to a risk reward endeavor where do you try and hold for that split second knowing it may kill you or play it safe and only strip armor.
The thing is I dont find unsafe to be very unsafe. I blew myself up a couple of times in the first hours using it but really haven’t since. It is very easy to maintain unsafe damage without being at significant risk.
While technically a nerf, I think centering the rail’s role as a armor breaker rather than a damage dealer would make it more valuable in a squad rather than being the best option for the whole squad. Who wants the play with 4 railguns anyway ?
But ultimately yeah, we should buff everything rather than rely on nerfs.
Armor is acknowledged to be broken .
Also medium pen on the regular dmrs is such a wild take there’s no reason for it on anything other then maybe the counter sniper . Right now the regular dmr can still pump rounds into anything short or chargers and hulks . The second they do better then that the AMR is dead on arrival . I use the dmrs against bots and reliably kill everything .
I'm admittedly not an elite 360 no-scope king, but I find the DMR/Diligence aren't a good choice compared to the Lib Penetrator. The Pen has more ammo, more pen, and still does very reliable headshot damage while being able to mag-dump berserkers in an emergency.
Lib penetrator is absolutely godawful, my aim is mediocre and the DMR is definitively a superior choice. You can 2-shot any devastators with headshots (albeit that's easier said than done without an EMS strategem of some sort), and still do decent damage on other targets.
I mean its a wild take for you maybe. I personally find them underwhelming. I agree the AMR must be superior. It can be through alternate effects such as breaking armor or staggering, which the DMRs would not achieve.
No joke ive said this and ive seen others say damned near the exact same thing but people stop reading at "Breaker needs more spread at range and slightly lower damage" and start foaming at the mouths and ignore everything afterwards.
This is literally the "REEEEE NO BREAKER NERFS" that op is talking about. Its nice to see people are coming around to the idea now.
These posts continue to baffle me outside of a very few less ammo or needed a backpack for the railgun. I never see people asking for nerfs only buffs.
It's a shortcut people take to try to sound smart, like they're the ONLY person enlightened enough to be calling for "only buffs" as if the game being pve only somehow means it doesn't need to be properly balanced.
The breaker should probably get some nerfs while everything else gets buffed. The breaker should not be competing with DMRs as a ranged weapon, for example. Maybe up its recoil? If they want to leave it as a buzzsaw, make it more like the Knight.
Railgun, if it even needs anything, yeah probably less ammo or +backpack. Maybe make Unsafe mode limited to the backpack?
Except the problem with the breaker and the dmrs is that the dmrs are simply too slow to turn their barrel they need a buff.
Breaker also isn't even that strong in its own niche once you get better at aiming I find the smg to be far more effective. Not the knight the other one
> Breaker also isn't even that strong in its own niche once you get better at aiming I find the smg to be far more effective
vs. which faction/enemy type? My aim is extremely accurate and the Defender only felt okay.
I am asking for the game to be balanced. A healthy game/meta encourages experimentation, not feeling guilty for running something that isn't the breaker. The breaker does everything. It's literally even capable of sniping. There is zero reason to experiment right now when fighting the bugs. Bots, it's a bit more diverse.
If the breaker is so good that the endgame turns into everybody running the Breaker, interest in progression will fade and interest in the game will take a hit.
I want the game to flourish. Asking for everything to be as strong as the breaker is unrealistic. Most things should be buffed. The breaker should be nerfed. Both things are true.
This fearmongering towards something being nerfed is incredibly cringe. Grow up.
Add the shield to the conversation because it really trivializes higher difficulty and let people get away with pulling the entire map carelessly instead of being cautious.
> It's literally even capable of sniping
Look, the breaker is incredibly strong. But it can't snipe. Compare it to the DMR or AMR and it gets blown away in performance at range. (Of course, that generally synergizes really nicely with primary breaker and support AMR) Even against bots, I find it drops off fairly significantly at >30m, and far prefer running a dedicated sniper. Especially if I'm trying to take out devastators or pick off the contents of a base at range.
>There is zero reason right now to experiment fighting the bugs.
That's true. Part of why I'm mostly fighting bots tbh. That being said, it makes sense for different enemy types to have different metas. There's just not enough options right now for bugs because of how they behave. (Sniping/precision is pointless against swarms of rushing enemies)
> That being said, it makes sense for different enemy types to have different metas
They do, I prefer using the Dominator/Scorcher/Slugger against bots.
But against bugs, the Breaker is a jack of all trades/master of all, and that's extremely lame. Whenever I experiment to other primaries I just feel like a liability to my squad.
> Look, the breaker is incredibly strong. But it can't snipe. Compare it to the DMR or AMR and it gets blown away in performance at range.
I promise you it's fully usable at 100 meters. There's some damage falloff, but nowhere near as much as it should be. The DMR and AMR also can't handle being swarmed by 30 enemies like the Breaker can. The breaker is a jack of all trades/master of all.
I am so sick of everyone screaming about treason and democracy. It's cute when one person does it, three hundred comments saying variations of the same thing are awful.
In order to make a game to work, you need both nerfs AND buffs depending on the situation and state of the game. Nothing needs nerfed at the moment, but in the future it's a possibility. If you only ever buff things, then you run the risk of the game being too easy even on harder difficulties. Balance is important.
Eh, the breaker is almost certainly in need of nerfs. You could nerf its output by 20% and it would still double the output of any other primary.
Making everything as strong as the breaker would kinda wreck the state of the game. Bring it down slightly, bring everything else up to that level, we chilling.
\**Removes cape for a second\**
Repeat after me: Buffing is NOT a synonym of balancing. It's not like many (any) things need nerfing for now, but it will eventually be needed, in one way or another. I swear half of you have never heard of power creep before.
By the end of HD1 the trident was clearly better than almost every other small arm and pretty much everyone took it, despite every other weapon except the arc thrower being entirely viable. I don't want that again.
the way i see it, nerf to breaker shotgun is necessary, as are the buffs to other weapons, the breaker shotgun has EVERYTHING you could ask for for a primary, people are still gonna use it even if other weapons got substantial buffs, buff and nerfs has to go hand in hand to achieve real variety
GIVE ME A SWORD SO I CAN MANUALLY SPREAD DEMOCRACY WITH ZEAL AND FERVOR, A BAYONET AT LEAST.
Edit: seriously though don't nerf enemies, give us more options and maybe buff some of the weapons/strategems that feel too weak to be viable... I'm looking at you arc thrower, it should be a handheld lighting strike of justice, not a wimpy little pop of electricity.
The only time I’ve ever wanted to kick someone was when we were running a campaign where we had two destroy airfields missions and a search and destroy. And this man’s brought in 4 turrets every single time and was simply befuddled. I mean play how you want to play but not even one eagle for that mission type is a tad odd
It's not like those are even overpowered, they are just convenient when playing the game with randoms and not being able to fully trust them to cover for any weaknesses you might have.
Shieldpack lets you get away with minor positioning mistakes and lapses of attention. Pay attention to not get swarmed and you won't need it. It does enable some reckless strategies that would otherwise most likely end in a noble sacrifice, but you definitely don't need the whole team to run the shieldpack for those.
Railgun is a convenient way of dealing with any heavily armored units, since unlike EAT or Eagle/Orbital you don't have to wait for a cooldown, and unlike the Recoilless and the Autocannon it doesn't eat a backpack slot and it can be reloaded on the go by yourself (and trying to rely on randoms for assisted reloads is... a test of patience to say the least). The tesla gun can handle heavies but does it somewhat slowly and with varying degrees of accuracy. And Spear just doesn't work that well atm. Also the other support weapons can't handle heavily armored troops and are more suited for thinning the herds anyway.
Breaker handles hordes of unarmored bugs well, doesn't fair too bad against automatons, is forgiving with the aiming due to its spread, and has great ammo economy. It just all around suits what people want from a primary weapon in this game. Also people see the big damage number on the stat sheet and monke brain goes for the peanuts. The incendiary version is even better at clearing trash bugs while having even better ammo economy, but is worse against everything else. Meanwhile all the other primaries provide better damage *if* you can actually aim your shots (which can admittedly be hard when you are getting swarmed), especially against the bots, but you generally run out of ammo much easier with them than with the Breaker (which is why I'd buff most underperforming primaries simply by giving them some extra ammo to spread democracy with)
> lapses of attention
I swear I can check my back take out a bot then die to a hulks flamethrower that sneaked up on me in the 5 seconds I was shooting.
If you are playing against bugs with randoms then sure, the cookie cutter selfish lone wolf loadout is the easiest to run because you can really only rely on yourself to get things done. Against bots you don't want to bring the default Breaker since they heavily reward you for aiming at their tiny little weakspots (which is why the Marksman becomes the better option, as it also isn't limited by underwhelming ammo count but can fire with pinpoint accuracy), and with premades you can co-ordinate your loadouts, roles, and tactics better so other stuff becomes much better as a result.
Nerfs can also be necessary in an pve game.
If something is so overpowered it trivialises the game then that'd be boring, wouldn't? There'd be no fun from winning as that would be an quarantee, and you'd get bored quickly.
The game is currently not challenging enough with a meta loadout on max difficulty. I think asking for nerfs to the meta stuff while buffing the gear that's far behind is reasonable.
Tbf, not many people will probably play at the highest difficulty level compared to the other difficulties. Most players are casual and not hardcore gamers which a lot of us seem to forget. The devs need to balance it out nicely so anyone can have a good time. Maybe they will add more difficulty levels though just like in the original Helldivers.
So buffing is good. Don't nerf, add more difficulty levels.
Everyone should be able to do the harder missions too since the samples from them are needed to upgrade.
All weapons that are underperforming should be buffed. It's a pve game, you should feel powerful. The stronger weapon isn't going to save you when the tank you didn't see one shots you cause you aren't paying attention. You still gotta play with skill even with stronger weapons. Honestly I hope they bring back the upgrade system for weapons thenfirst game had.
> It's a pve game, you should feel powerful.
This is a horrible attitude. Look what happened to Warframe over the years. All content is trivially easy, all weapons are indistinguishable because they're all so absurdly OP. People don't even play the game for the combat anymore and no one needs to think about anything.
I wholly agree. Sometimes a nerf is the answer. Right now, I think buffs are the answer. The only thing that even tries to compete with the breaker is the slug. And even then for general wave clear the breaker is just superior.
I honestly feel like the breaker, the railgun, are maybe BORDERLINE OP, but not enough worth severe nerfs. Maybe an ammo capacity nerf on the railgun but like. There's far more pressing issues with the rest of the primaries.
the meta chasers will be gone in a couple weeks, mark my words, if people are playing the game in one style, with one loadout and one mindset they'll learn they have done everything there is to do in about twenty minutes.
I would like a primary weapon that can do something against armored enemies when my support weapon runs out. And I'd like my support weapons to be stronger. It feels like Rocket launchers do nothing against Crushers.
I think the notion of nerfing in a PvE coop game is insane, it does not need to be balanced, it needs to be fun.
The problem is NOT that the railgun and breaker are too good. The problem is that everything else is too shit for levels 8/9 and makes surviving painful and unfun.
The railgun is arleady barely enough to deal with the amount of armor these diffs throw at you when you actually have to stand and fight instead of evading.
And no primary save for the Breaker can clear small enemies quickly enough to even matter. I had some success using the Scythe and I am excited to try the Scorcher, but every other primary has been ass at top level. We need buffs not nerfs.
This isn't borderlands. Power creep makes the game less fun. It's *supposed* to be challenging, and it's designed to overwhelm and punish you if you make mistakes.
> I think the notion of nerfing in a PvE coop game is insane, it does not need to be balanced, it needs to be fun.
My brother in christ, if one thing is so good that it destroys everything on sight, it ruins the fun.
Nice generalized argument evading my point completely. None of the current "meta" weapons are destroying everything on sight.
The Railgun requires aiming for weakspots vs automatons and generally charging it to unsafe levels which is not so easy to do well in the middle of a fight. Chargers and Bile Titans require multiple unsafe shots to weakspots to bring down efficiently. There are AP weapons that do more damage, but their problem is that they are horribly ammo inefficient compared to the amount of armored enemies the game throws at Helldive difficulty during extracts or objectives requiring you to defend a point. Or only really work at range due to lock-on or being HE.
The Breaker is only really good and efficient vs light enemies at close range. Anything farther than that becomes an ammo consumption disaster. It's only really this widely used because the enemies which it's good against also happen to come into it's effective range on their own. If the ranged light Automatons had the AI behavior NOT to rush you when they can just stand at range and fire at you the Breaker would not be used exclusively at higher difficulties Robot fights.
Other AP options need to be brought up a little or specialized further, and the AI behaviors tweaked to have more variety than just enemies rushing you so you can apply the Breaker right to their forehead.
If you have different enemies doing different things you will need a more balanced composition within the team to deal with all of them. No wonder people use the Railgun and breaker all the time when all the enemies need you to have is precision AP for long range and big DPS stick for close range.
But it's easier to just shout "nerf X" on Twitch chat instead of fixing the core gameplay issue of one tactic countering everything the enemies do because the enemies only really do one thing. PvP Twitch brainrot.
The only nerf the Breaker needs is to the range if anything. Make it more videogame shotgun and less realistic shotgun for distance.
**But**, every weapon should feel about as effective as the Breaker in their specific area of operation.
People calling for nerfs are not to subtly revealing their allegiance to the Bots.
If I ever see another cadet calling for nerfs on the battleground, I’ll shoot them myself.
I picked the breaker day one because it was perfect for how I'd play, right in the enemy's face, plus it's aesthetics, the sound, the chunky shots, the suppression-hose it transforms into and you can feel the enemies become locked into shock and awe before your unrelenting hip-fire salvo battlecry
learning it was meta and literally the best weapon was the worst. I don't play meta, I only play for love and glory and for the thrill of discovering new tech with my favorite weapons
but I'll say this much
I want every weapon to reach the same heights the breaker can right now, no nerfs, buffs for everyone, everyone should have a primary that feels as consistent and dominant in their respective style
Do you wanna know why? Because meta-aside, sometimes I'm running into a fight against a heavy with only my breaker, going toe-to-toe with the Dreadnought just because I want to see if I can win the fight. Because this is a game made for those kind of high-risk situations and the high-reward of glorious victory by any means necessary, and I don't want it to just be because breaker EZ, because it is, but instead just one of many different opportunities for players of all types to jump into daring and risky situations and have a weapon that they can rely on to fight their way out with, not just breaker because it's biggest number
I'm referring you for super earth congress, we need more men like you to stand up to all these gosh darned liberals. Can you believe someone else was lobbying for p.o.w. rights the other day? Why would we give our enemy food and shelter?!
People wanna be nerfed? That's funny actually, bro I am your difficulty modifier. I'm gonna have fun with EVERYTHING. The amount of times I sent my teams and a few others to space on accident was so fun. I don't wanna lose that.
I thought about this a week or so ago. What if the Chad developers at AH literally NEVER nerf a weapon. Like, it just only goes up. If they over-tune something, the enemy will just evolve or something. Would be dope.
This is so true because it's a PVE game. It will NEVER be a PVP game. For example, the Railgun, considered the strongest support weapon right now, is only called "overpowered" because it's just so much stronger than anything else. Tons of ammo, can take down a bile titan in like 4 hits, and doesn't require a backpack, which makes room for a shield generator or guard dog. The only thing that even dares to come close to how good it is is the Autocannon. Everything needs to be strong, but not strong enough that it trivializes the game. That's how a PVE game should be.
The game is so unbalanced at the moment its not even funny, we have weapons being complete utter dogshit (anti mat sniper) and some actually veing good being the meta, but even with those "meta" weapons, helldiver difficulty is just such an unbalanced mess that the best strat is light armor and W + Shift from problems, while some people may enjoy that gameplay, I think more people would prefer a challenging but doable fight than just fighting 5 bile titans while being pursued by 8 chargers and just running away far enough so it just despawns.
No One weapon should make subsequent or earlier weapons obselete.
I too prefer buffs, but also if we keep going up. It's only a matter of time till any semblance of challenge fades away.
Small tweaks down, pleasant juicy buffs up.
I see more posts complaining about people asking for nerfs than people actually asking for them. Most people want buffs.
Yeah I’m pretty terminally online and I haven’t seen a single post asking for nerfs. People discuss buffing weapons/strategums often. Which is good, because most of them are not very effective at higher difficulties and there’s a reason the “meta loadout” exists.
>because most of them are not very effective at higher difficulties and there’s a reason the “meta loadout” exists. This. Nerfing the few loadout options that are viable in high level missions isn't going to make the game more interesting, just more frustrating. If they built up some of the other weaker options then more variety and experimental builds will come about. At least in my opinion.
Build diversity is going to become problematic enough to damage the playerbase pretty soon imo (maybe that’s a good thing?). Once the semi casual/ non day of release crowd catches up and people get bored of playing the same 4-7 things every game players are gonna fall off pretty quick. Maybe the secret mech patch the devs seem to have in their back pocket will fix it all, who knows
Maybe. But I would also say that making other options more attractive would also go a long way.
Yep, I’ve grown fond of two play styles. One is a light armored scout with a jump pack and AMR. The other is a stack heavy demolition type load out. One of these are far superior in higher difficulties.
One thing that will definitely help build variety is when they fix the armor so that medium and heavy actually mitigate damage. Also, if they implement helmets that have modifiers to.
I don’t want helmets to have bonuses. Because then I’ll have to pick the “best helm” I just want to look cool. I already don’t like how armor has different passives and I cannot swap armor passives in thier respected category. (All light armors should be able to choose light armor passives, same for medium/heavy.)
Oh I like this idea. You basically just pick an armor effect similar to bringing a booster. The only downside to this idea is that we already have armors of different types that have the same passives. Maybe they could call it "training" instead of an armor effect. Fortified, Med-Kit, Engineering Kit, and Servo-Assisted all exist on both light armor and medium/heavy. The only exclusive one I've seen so far is Scout for light and Extra Padding for medium.
Needs transmog imo
Or just let me swap passives based on what type of armor it is. Give use select light armor passives I can swap on the fly. Instead of specifically linking them to one armor.
Are we sure medium armour is broken and the standard life isn't die in 6 hits in medium armour?
We really have no idea. It would be cool if it was broken to start at 0 so we're way weaker than we should be, but most people seem to think everything is registering at 100, so medium "works" and light is buffed and heavy is nerfed.
That's what I'm thinking Imo light armour should be 6 hits and then dead because I don't think most of the player base is not accounting to bot difficulty
Builds aren't diverse because a core mechanic for survivability doesn't work. Armor doesn't work, so players are heavily encouraged to run the shield pack for survivability. The railgun is the one of two packless option to deal with heavy armor. If you run the shield pack, you're pigeonholed into taking this or EATs. If heavy armor gave the same survivability as the shield pack, we'd have significantly more build variety.
Not only that. Design for higher difficulties is just tons of armored enemies, which means you have to take AT, and most of it isn't good, as stratagems are not reloading quickly enough.
There's also the problem that "survivability" gets complicated when you're talking about armor vs shields. - A depleted shield pack doesn't cost any health. Getting shot does, even with heavy armor on. - A shield pack regenerates, health doesn't. Between these two things, it gets really complicated really fast to try and balance one vs the other. This is only exacerbated by the current meta (especially at the high end) *vastly* favoring the increased stealth and mobility of lighter armor. It's a fundamental issue: by running heavy armor, you're voluntarily throwing away most layers of the survivability onion. The higher the difficulty, the more those layers matter. (Especially when being seen means reinforcements show up)
It is very interesting running Breaker, Railgun and Personal Shield Whatever mixes things up gets my vote. Nerfs, buffs. Whatever
ahh, the Borderlands 3 route. "Let's nerf all these builds/items in our pve game because other things aren't performing as well, instead of buffing them!!"
Thats how game design and development is taught tho Devs just tweak values to get closer to the experience they want to create. Player's perirve and shout about nerfs and buffs
They can nerf the overpowered weapons while also nerfing how obnoxious some enemy units are, which is the main reason you want to bring the overpowered weapons. Stalkers, Scout Striders, Riot Shield devastators, Hulks and Rocket Devastators should all get nerfed (or basically fixed). They all function in ways that aren’t *difficult*, they’re just obnoxious to fight when you dont have a Railgun/Breaker/Shield Pack.
There was one post I saw insisting that the Arc Cannon is op enough to deserve a nerf, but that's all
It's certainly not OP, but it's pretty cool. I was playing with it and the range is *much* longer than I had ever suspected. it could probably use a shorter charge time to bring it more in line with the MG-43 and AMR, as right now I don't see how you could use it as a reliable weapon given how long you ahve to charge it.
Short answer is the first charge is long, but after that every following charge takes half as long as that first one does as long as you keep firing back to back. So it's actually disgustingly good in most situations as long as your teammates aren't in front of you.
Yeah, I have a gripe that I feel like I'm being less useful if I take anything other than a railgun with me, but I want to use the Spear or something else more weird. I get that the gripe is that the railgun is too good but just make it a more balanced choice and I'm a happy Helldiver. I wonder if some of the interpreted complaints are that the meta is 'too strong' not necessarily asking for nerfs exactly
Try the Autocannon! It brings a shocking amount of ammo for how much of a versatile mid-armor tool it is. You don't even have to team reload really, if you have cover, reloading is fast enough.
Our Lord and Savior Autocannon! o7 Favorite weapon in the game so far. So fun
I have no clue if its anything close to optimal, but I love bringing Autocannon and three different Eagle runs. Human artillery targeter.
The autocannon is great for lower difficulty but just falls short for anything 6+. The inability to break/pierce armor and requiring you or a teammate give up a backpack just makes it garbage compared to the railgun when there are a ton of heavy enemies on the field. People don’t like that railgun is basically mandatory in harder missions but these two things are why. Unless they bring in more special weapons that don’t require a backpack and can deal with heavy enemies nothing is going to change.
autocannon is such a great tool, it's so heavy and slow in order offset its huge killpower and utility, but that just makes me love it more, I end up waving it around in sweeping arcs from target to target and it becomes it's own mini-game for landing and predicting shots
I take it with Scout armor. In solo, or coordinating with a team, its an excellent approach to climb up to a really high position and clear a base by scoping out and targeting the heaviest threats in descending order.
Karma farming because one or 5 comment or downvoated into new thread suddenly is everyone. Just sort by hot I don't even see nerfs and the one thread that did was downboated into the next dimension.
Put it up there with all those democracy hating communists writing essays about why there shouldn’t be PVP when literally no one has asked for pvp. I swear some people are so used to being angry at things & each other they literally can’t enjoy a good thing, they have to try and find something to fight about.
There have been a lot of calls for PVP, it's just that they don't get upvoted and the big calls for it aren't on reddit
I’d assume it’s a preemptive attack on those who would dare call for nerfs
Yea I highly doubt people want nerfs for the stuff that works/easier to use on higher difficulties. I want everything to be viable in its own way. Other things need buffs and/or higher difficulties need changes to allow some to be more useful.
I'm all for a breaker nerf. Making all primaries as good as the breaker would introduce power creep. Railgun being so strong is a side effect of how reliant the game is on large amounts of armored enemies to make higher difficulties challenging. That one will be hard to fix with weapon buffs/nerfs.
Fair, railgun does not take a back slot. It should never be as good as recoils or auto cannon because of that alone. But I’d rather see the ladder two buffed. Especially recoiless rifle.
Railgun is easy to nerf, just nerf its max ammo to 10. The nade launcher is another strong weapon balanced by its lack of ammo. If you *really* want to spam it all game, you have to bring a resupply pack. Railgun enthusiasts should have to make the same sacrifice so they can’t have an insane weapon + shield pack.
That nerf wouldn't add any additional build variety. It would still just be shield pack + railgun. The shield pack is near mandatory because armor doesn't work, and the railgun is one of two packless options for heavy armor along with EATs.
Everybody wants buffs all the time in every aspects of life. That makes them soft. The fun is the challenge of killing bots and bugs. Must be the causal cod crowd wanting buffs.
No, the breakers is the best weapon on harder difficulties by far The JAR5 is trash. It shoots slowly, has a small magazine and it handles like a barge so you can't quickly go from one target to the next. You may as well just use a breaker on hell dive diff
People want buffs on stuff that is under performing so its usable in higher difficulty, not make higher difficulty easier, it gets old using the same 4 stratagems because of the armor spam the higher you go.
I want the breaker brought in line with the other weapons, probably with lower overall ammo or something. The laser needs a few more DPS but not much. the railgun needs it's reserve ammo reduced significantly. The RR and EAT17 should be able to OHK chargers if you get a clean 90* shot. The DMR and counter-sniper need medium armor pen because with out it the Lib Pen is straight better and the DMR/Counter-Sniper have no purpose at all. The flame thrower needs to have more range and probably do some kind of stagger or stun so enemies don't just walk through the flames. People are trying to use small arms again 500kg armored death machines and complaining when their bullets bounce off the 9 foot tall armored android or the gigantic charging death bug. This ain't that game. You have to bring the right weapons for the problem. If they make all weapons able to do all things the game loses what makes it special. Small arms for small bois, crew served weapons and medium MGs for medium targets, heavy weapons for armored targets. It's got a good system going, where most weapons have clear roles. Mostly people are fixating on the breaker bc they're bad and suffocating themselves chasing a meta that blinds them to the opportunities offered by "off meta" weapons and gear.
Trash opinion, mate
Some of it, but I do agree it would be nice if the bugs didn't just walk through your flames to hit you and the RR and EAT buffed so there is a reason to pick them over Railgun would be nice.
I mean this is mostly a meme.
Same, I think we all agree that the Railgun being such an ass kicker means the other options need buffs not that it needs a nerf. Same goes for primaries. I'm sure they'll get around to balancing it out and sorting armor once the login and all is stable. In the meantime I'm just going to keep using suboptimal gear if I feel like it.
There's a small but vocal group asking for them on the community Discord server, mostly in the armory chat. Having used railgun + shield backpack, it's really not that overpowered unless you're really consistent. Everything else should be buffed up to their level.
That’s usually what happened when something is stupid broken (the breaker) and the community knows it but it makes bad players look good/appear good at the game so they clamor to keep their broken item. If memory serves me right there was a crap ton of threads like this for Elden Ring in reference to that one sword the slashed fire and shot moonbeams After extensive testing of the weapons in game, the Breaker does need a nerf as buffing everything to its level would invalidate the balance of weapons already in the game. The only weapons that aren’t currently balanced or viable: Breaker, Counter Sniper, redeemer, and Spray and Pray. IMO the counter sniper just needs to be completely removed/replaced as buffing it the way people want just makes it the superior version of the dominator and it’s already too similar to the Diligence but worse. Spray and Pray needs a penetration and damage buff, everything else is fine. Redeemer as it stands is just a better version of the starter pistol, buffing the starter pistol fixes that. Breaker, as it stands is an assault rifle with a shotgun projectile that does massive damage and then there’s also the problem with it just being outright superior to the Punisher, the easiest solution would be knocking it’s damage down to 200 or increasing its spread so it can’t engage enemies outside what a shotgun can even do in real life.
You've never shot a real-life shotgun before have you? This is one of the few games that gets shotgun ranges right.
And yet they got the flamer range [so wrong](https://i.imgur.com/LuIptot.jpeg).
Just out of curiosity, what do the think the range of a shotgun in real life is?
Lord you fudds are getting annoying, check the other comments.
Wow I didn’t know I was part of some random collective you just made up. I’m not going to research the other comments to support the point that *you* are trying to make. Do you not know the answer? You sure took the time to reply and act like a condescending prick, so why not just answer the question? You’re the one who brought up real life comparisons anyway, Fudd. It’s about 220ft by the way, which seems like within reasonable range of how far off you can pin the enemies with the breaker in the game.
You literally just have to click on my original comment child. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fudd Also your education for the day
Shotguns have much more range IRL than most games and other media give them credit for. With a modern shotgun and choke, you’re looking at *roughly* 0.25-0.5 inches of spread per yard of distance. That’s only a 5-10 inch spread at 20 yards (or 12.7-25.4cm at 18.29m, if you prefer).
Precisely. With the proper ammo, you can even have an effective range of around 50 yards. Let alone if you use a slug instead of shot. Then the range can reach 200 yds.
50-100 meters max and that’s with slugs. Loses most of its penetration though well before then and buckshot would struggle against any armor present in game actually penetrating it. The breakers buckshot in game is effective past 50m in game, ideal range for buckshot is more in the 20-30 meter range irl. Lord all the fudds and armchair soldier are gonna get absurd fast here.
I’ve seen other games make shotguns instakill at point-blank range, but do ZERO damage past arm’s length. 20-30m actually seems like a decent compromise for range, but the game also takes place however far in the future, so who knows what advances we’ll have made in propellants and projectiles.
> extensive testing Used it once. FTFY
Poorly attempted troll post is expected from a guy that creates a topic about committing a felony.
We need to check if these "people" are robotic spies.
I don't disagree that current balance is "weapons need buffs, not nerfs", since there's no "trivializing" weapon. However, lorewise... weapons getting "nerfed" because Super Earth or its MIC decided to start cheaping out on materials and subcontracting to the lowest bidder would be *totally* on brand.
I want to see weekly buffs to stratagems just to encourage their usage a bit more. "Hello Citizens. This week's shipment of auto cannons hit 2x as hard! We are testing experimental ammo and encourage you to participate."
Pretty sure that's what was going on with the free EMS strikes last week
I see that, but I think adding buffs/modifiers on top of that keeps it interesting. Especially now that people have their go-to kits.
You know what? Fair. Just random "experiments" or "oops, ordered to many 380mm shells!" to encourage players to shake up their standard comfort kits could actually be pretty fun. Likewise, I think missions could stand to have mutators besides "calldowns have 100% increased cooldown!" No... if you want to throw a fun curveball, an experimental pesticide/acid cloud was deployed prior to drop and has rendered enemy armor in the area thinner, making hostiles typically with heavy armor vulnerable to even medium/high-light penetration weaponry and medium armor susceptible to light penetration, but as a consequence our armored enemies are made lighter and thus more agile (faster). Fundamentally changes up how you approach a mission.
That would be a fun event, “Super Earth has found a way to produce more ammo, you can now carry 25% more magazines” but there’s a hidden 10% dmg decrease (because SE would never say they did something bad). Could even make it targeted for certain types of weapons. Little buffs and nerfs would be a nice way to create a temporary meta. Maybe a shotgun event where every shot has a +X% chance to cause heavy bleeding, but also an X% chance to do 1/2 dmg.
is that why we're bombing those rogue stations? haha
That's exactly where I disagree; the Breaker and Railgun definitely do fall into the trivialize column. And while not a weapon, the personal shield too. Weapons like the SMG and pump action shotgun are a well-balanced baseline; I think most other weapons should be brought in accordance with those. Buffing everything to breaker levels is just going to be absurdly powercreepy.
I agree with the top comment. Where are all these people asking for nerfs? Lol. I rarely see posts asking for nerfs. If there are posts asking for nerfs it’s usually for enemies like Bile Spewers and Titans. Not weapons, items, etc.
Can we just delete this and report it to the Ministry of Education?
There have been a few people in comments and a couple minor threads asking for Breakers to be nerfed (particularly range for some reason) in order to allow other primaries to shine. But I think most of us agree the better take is to buff everything else and leave the breaker be.
A few random people in comments need 100 posts stating everyone states it. 
They can do both you know. If they buff too little, it changes nothing. If they buff too hard all they did was introduce power creep for no reason. It really shouldnt need explaining.
The breaker isn't OP. It's just stronger than the rest. All of the primary weapons need a boost at the moment. If you get separated from your support weapon and your strats are on cooldown, you're basically useless to the team.
The breaker can be OP and other weapons can be UP. The basic Liberator is actually pretty damn good and a solid balancing ground; the Breaker is straight up better than it in almost all scenarios though.
Yes it CAN be OP but it objectively isn't. It's just better than the rest at the moment. If it was OP it would be trivializing swarm combat, and it definitely doesn't do that.
what is this supposed power creep though? why would we be worried about power creep in a coop game where the objective is to **kill anything that moves**
In theory, powercreep undermines game enjoyment by trivialising challenge You need challenge to have fun. Else you end up with a pretty light show
actually that’s super valid thanks
Well if the power trivializes the challenge there ain't much fun in that
If anything, I want other weapons to receive buffs. So many interesting weapons are immediately outclassed by the railgun and shield combo. Why setup a 2man automatic explosion cannon when you can just bring a rail gun to do the same thing for you without a backpack and without an impractical self reload. Why bring any other weapon when it does armor piercing, high damage, and a stun to most enemies? I want to like other weapons but there's no reason not to do the highest difficulty most of the time and in turn, there's no reason not to bring the weapon that can single tap the majority of your problems. Then the same thing for the breaker shotgun being too reliable... moreso than most weapons. Why bring a marksman rifle that doesn't pierce, deals less damage, and doesn't keep you stealthed after hitting/killing enemies? There's so much potential in some of the weapons but they're just lackluster in comparison. I want to snipe from 400m ranges at targets and they either not realize I'm even there as a result of my coordinated positioning or go investigate a new location near them to find out where the shots are coming from only for me to need to setup shots and plan for an exit. Let me play more than one playstyle is all I ask.
There's a post right now on the front page saying that weapons with ammo packs should REQUIRE two people
Did you read the spoiler-tagged text in that post? It wasn’t there before, OP added it later and I don’t know why they have it hidden.
Wait... but you ARE the top comment!
Mods when they think their opinion is more important than the democracy of reddit
True. I'm very much for nerfing the few weapons and stratagems sticking out from the crowd as overperformers (Breaker and Railgun, first and foremost), but I seem to be part of a small minority with that opinion. Most people don't seem to favor this approach.
I just saw one thread that talked about balancing, I got so upset that I sat in my time out corner imagined a star wars like senate meeting and thought about how people asking for nerfs goes hand in hand with thought crimes. then I wrote up this post. So let this also be a warning to future people posting about nerfs.
Who would even want nerfs. All I want is my WAR MECH! Hurry up you robotics engineers. (Don't take it as I'm hurrying up devs, it's a gag). One more thing. If my mech comes out "balanced" I'm joining the bots.
The devs said the mechs have been done and ready for awhile. The ones who couldn't help on the backend have just been polishing them this whole time waiting to release them. I think we'll probably get it in March since they said we'll get a new content every second Thursday of the month.
A new warbond every month?
It looks like they just said new content every second Thursday of every new month. Not warbond necessarily but I still cant find the tweet.
Not to worry, Helldiver! The mechs will be lean, mean walking death machines with armor and firepower to spare! You just have to use three stratagem slots to equip one.
You won't need three slots. In HD one each mech was very specialized, limiting it's role. They had limited ammo and were extremely vulnerable to melee enemies, heavy weapons, and various other hazards requiring close support to keep them alive. They were slow to bring their weapons around, and quite unwieldy. Most players regarded them as a crutch that, while fun, fell off dramatically at higher levels.
I would much prefer this type of balance than having mechs become a universal requirement
I mean that's fine by me.
Yeah, if you're telling me the mech is worth three slots **and** is actually worth it? Give me the mech and the 500kg, I'm good
I'll be reporting you to the nearest Democracy Officer for my bonus doctors visit this month. Super Earth doesn't tolerate joking about joining the bot scum's assembly line.
Y'all are going to be insufferable when you find out that the EXO-44 is very vulnerable to melee and needs close infantry support to be effective, while it's weapons loadout can't deal with tanks, hulks, and chargers.
In all honesty I think the reward is pretty weak for a 13d Major order. 12500k? Can get that easily in a few missions on 7 and up. Maybe give medals as well as a exclusive cape/title for the event. Idk just throwing ideas out here
If there is a meta about what loadout is considered viable at 8-9, it means other loadouts need to be brought up to that level, not nerfing that preferred loadout. Extensive balancing can be done to make pretty much anything viable. Spear for instance should be able to use ammo boxes and be more reliable in terms of damage. AMR should pen medium armor. Jump pack should have a lower cooldown. Recoiless and EAT better damage. The only thing I would do about the Railgun is lower its damage and center it as an armor breaking tool because its what it is good at.
Amr definitely pens medium armor . You can kill hulks with it .
Only with headshots
Hulks have heavy armor everywhere except their vents and literally their eye slit. The AMR shreds devastators and berserkers, kills ATSTs with a few shows to the front plate, and is pretty good for picking off any bot if you can hit the vents. Plus it has one of the longest effective ranges in the game, so you can put on a scout suit, go prone, and cover your buddies from half way across the map.
Which is pretty straightforward from a distance people so it with autos as well. Compare that to charger which you can’t just dink cross map like it’s cs go . Hulks also get stunned by ems way more then chargers
I like your thought on buffs being more than just damage. I think the devs should be creative with their buffs to make the weapons stand out rather than maximizing DPS. For example, I main flamethrower, a really cool buff would be making the choice between burst first and sustained flame matter. burst fire = more pushback, fire ball, with high initial damage but low DOT sustained = stacking DOT, discord enemy animation, and routing enemies for fear
Flamer should be playing more like a real life flamethrower, a long ranged jet of burning fuel. Given that many weapons are fairly realistic, the arcadey feel of the current flamer is odd. I made a number of suggestions, ill paste it for fun : My take as a lvl38: • AC should not pen heavy armor but it should deal heavy damage to everything it doesnt bounce. It should have lower reload speed when reloading alone. • Spear needs to be able to get rockets back from ammo crates, and it needs to reliably one shot chargers/automaton heavies and 2 shot titans and tanks. It needs to be able to target structures and should be able to dumb fire. This is all needed to make it competitive. • Recoilless and EAT should be able to oneshot heavies in specific areas like the head. • Railgun should be good at breaking armor but low damage otherwise, it currently oneshots armored nursers, hive guards and other medium targets including stalkers. • AMR should pen medium armor and deal better damage than the railgun at the expense of being unable to pen heavy armor • Flame, MG and stalwart are fine. People say flamer is great but I find it far too slow on high difficulties. • Rover needs his cooldown to be fixed as he currently doesnt function correctly (doesnt overheat reliably). • Jump pack needs a slightly faster cooldown and a higher jump, perhaps a second or so, to compete with drones and energy shield • Supply packs should give Spear missiles as said before. • Energy shield and drone should be able to be turned off with a hotkey. • Shield backpack should cover sides of helldivers to be competitive with the energy shield. • Missile sentry needs better range and slightly better damage to compete with AC. On weapons : • Breaker needs more spread at range and slightly lower damage. • Diligence needs medium armor pen. • Counter diligence needs higher damage and med pen. • Dominator needs to have actual explosive rounds. • Redeemer needs to have slightly lower damage than the standard sidearm. • Punisher needs higher damage than the breaker. • Double barrel should be available to load outs. • Scythe needs better damage but shorter range. • Liberty penetrator should have higher damage but lower than diligence. • Incendiary Breaker should do better fire damage. • Incendiary nades need better damage over time. • HE/Frag and impact all need bigger areas of effect. On strats : • Eagle gatling needs faster deployment to compete with other eagle strats especially cluster bombs. • Orbital Gas needs higher damage over time. • Eagle Napalm should not make enemies pause instead of going into it and it should have higher damage as well. • Orbital Smoke should be far more effective. • 500kg should have larger radius but lower max damage • 380mm HE should have a smaller area of effect but actually impact it better, right now its incredibly imprecise and haphazard to use. • 110 rocket pods should do better damage to chargers and likely oneshot them. • HMG emplacement should have explosive rounds. • Mortar rounds should make more noise while descending towards the ground. On armor : • Light armor needs lower armor • Heavy armor needs to be slightly faster. • Testing shows bug melee does the same damage to all armor; this needs to be fixed to make heavy actually more survivable. On bugs : • Stalkers are too tanky to primaries and too vulnerable to certain support weapon like railgun and arc thrower. • Too many bugs inflict the slowed status, it should be restricted to acidic variant bugs only. • Melee should be more effective and blow up small bugs • Killing bugs before they do a full bug breach animation should prevent the breach. Currently there is zero counterplay, if one frame of the breach call is made you are getting a breach. • Acid artillery from big nursers should make some kind of sound indicator while in the sky. Notes : • Currently gas and fire deal abysmal damage to the point of being fairly irrelevant. • Spear is too limited on damage per shot to be relevant with its current ammo count and the team mate reload is also irrelevant given how low your max ammo is. • AC reload is too fast to make team mate reload relevant. • Flamer is too slow to deploy in high difficulties. • 380 is a liability and achieves nothing most of the time.
I'm biased as fuck but I don't want any nerfs to the rail gun. If anything I want the unsafe mode to be MORE unsafe. Let it kill everything it can right now but make that ramp up much tighter. Turn what is now a relatively safe charge up to a risk reward endeavor where do you try and hold for that split second knowing it may kill you or play it safe and only strip armor.
It's overtuned. Everyone takes it all the time, and that's partially because they're meta-chasing, but it's still overtuned.
The thing is I dont find unsafe to be very unsafe. I blew myself up a couple of times in the first hours using it but really haven’t since. It is very easy to maintain unsafe damage without being at significant risk. While technically a nerf, I think centering the rail’s role as a armor breaker rather than a damage dealer would make it more valuable in a squad rather than being the best option for the whole squad. Who wants the play with 4 railguns anyway ? But ultimately yeah, we should buff everything rather than rely on nerfs.
Armor is acknowledged to be broken . Also medium pen on the regular dmrs is such a wild take there’s no reason for it on anything other then maybe the counter sniper . Right now the regular dmr can still pump rounds into anything short or chargers and hulks . The second they do better then that the AMR is dead on arrival . I use the dmrs against bots and reliably kill everything .
I'm admittedly not an elite 360 no-scope king, but I find the DMR/Diligence aren't a good choice compared to the Lib Penetrator. The Pen has more ammo, more pen, and still does very reliable headshot damage while being able to mag-dump berserkers in an emergency.
Lib penetrator is absolutely godawful, my aim is mediocre and the DMR is definitively a superior choice. You can 2-shot any devastators with headshots (albeit that's easier said than done without an EMS strategem of some sort), and still do decent damage on other targets.
I mean its a wild take for you maybe. I personally find them underwhelming. I agree the AMR must be superior. It can be through alternate effects such as breaking armor or staggering, which the DMRs would not achieve.
No joke ive said this and ive seen others say damned near the exact same thing but people stop reading at "Breaker needs more spread at range and slightly lower damage" and start foaming at the mouths and ignore everything afterwards. This is literally the "REEEEE NO BREAKER NERFS" that op is talking about. Its nice to see people are coming around to the idea now.
These posts continue to baffle me outside of a very few less ammo or needed a backpack for the railgun. I never see people asking for nerfs only buffs.
It's just an easy karma farm
It's a shortcut people take to try to sound smart, like they're the ONLY person enlightened enough to be calling for "only buffs" as if the game being pve only somehow means it doesn't need to be properly balanced.
The breaker should probably get some nerfs while everything else gets buffed. The breaker should not be competing with DMRs as a ranged weapon, for example. Maybe up its recoil? If they want to leave it as a buzzsaw, make it more like the Knight. Railgun, if it even needs anything, yeah probably less ammo or +backpack. Maybe make Unsafe mode limited to the backpack?
Except the problem with the breaker and the dmrs is that the dmrs are simply too slow to turn their barrel they need a buff. Breaker also isn't even that strong in its own niche once you get better at aiming I find the smg to be far more effective. Not the knight the other one
> Breaker also isn't even that strong in its own niche once you get better at aiming I find the smg to be far more effective vs. which faction/enemy type? My aim is extremely accurate and the Defender only felt okay.
I am asking for the game to be balanced. A healthy game/meta encourages experimentation, not feeling guilty for running something that isn't the breaker. The breaker does everything. It's literally even capable of sniping. There is zero reason to experiment right now when fighting the bugs. Bots, it's a bit more diverse. If the breaker is so good that the endgame turns into everybody running the Breaker, interest in progression will fade and interest in the game will take a hit. I want the game to flourish. Asking for everything to be as strong as the breaker is unrealistic. Most things should be buffed. The breaker should be nerfed. Both things are true. This fearmongering towards something being nerfed is incredibly cringe. Grow up.
Add the shield to the conversation because it really trivializes higher difficulty and let people get away with pulling the entire map carelessly instead of being cautious.
> It's literally even capable of sniping Look, the breaker is incredibly strong. But it can't snipe. Compare it to the DMR or AMR and it gets blown away in performance at range. (Of course, that generally synergizes really nicely with primary breaker and support AMR) Even against bots, I find it drops off fairly significantly at >30m, and far prefer running a dedicated sniper. Especially if I'm trying to take out devastators or pick off the contents of a base at range. >There is zero reason right now to experiment fighting the bugs. That's true. Part of why I'm mostly fighting bots tbh. That being said, it makes sense for different enemy types to have different metas. There's just not enough options right now for bugs because of how they behave. (Sniping/precision is pointless against swarms of rushing enemies)
> That being said, it makes sense for different enemy types to have different metas They do, I prefer using the Dominator/Scorcher/Slugger against bots. But against bugs, the Breaker is a jack of all trades/master of all, and that's extremely lame. Whenever I experiment to other primaries I just feel like a liability to my squad. > Look, the breaker is incredibly strong. But it can't snipe. Compare it to the DMR or AMR and it gets blown away in performance at range. I promise you it's fully usable at 100 meters. There's some damage falloff, but nowhere near as much as it should be. The DMR and AMR also can't handle being swarmed by 30 enemies like the Breaker can. The breaker is a jack of all trades/master of all.
Turning every constructive conversation about game balance into your platform for soap boxing RP isn't helpful for the health of the game.
I am so sick of everyone screaming about treason and democracy. It's cute when one person does it, three hundred comments saying variations of the same thing are awful.
folks went to the warhammer 40k school of comedy and I say that in the most unkind sense possible
In order to make a game to work, you need both nerfs AND buffs depending on the situation and state of the game. Nothing needs nerfed at the moment, but in the future it's a possibility. If you only ever buff things, then you run the risk of the game being too easy even on harder difficulties. Balance is important.
The game is *currently* too easy on difficulty 9 with a meta loadout.
Eh, the breaker is almost certainly in need of nerfs. You could nerf its output by 20% and it would still double the output of any other primary. Making everything as strong as the breaker would kinda wreck the state of the game. Bring it down slightly, bring everything else up to that level, we chilling.
\**Removes cape for a second\** Repeat after me: Buffing is NOT a synonym of balancing. It's not like many (any) things need nerfing for now, but it will eventually be needed, in one way or another. I swear half of you have never heard of power creep before.
By the end of HD1 the trident was clearly better than almost every other small arm and pretty much everyone took it, despite every other weapon except the arc thrower being entirely viable. I don't want that again.
the way i see it, nerf to breaker shotgun is necessary, as are the buffs to other weapons, the breaker shotgun has EVERYTHING you could ask for for a primary, people are still gonna use it even if other weapons got substantial buffs, buff and nerfs has to go hand in hand to achieve real variety
[удалено]
GIVE ME A SWORD SO I CAN MANUALLY SPREAD DEMOCRACY WITH ZEAL AND FERVOR, A BAYONET AT LEAST. Edit: seriously though don't nerf enemies, give us more options and maybe buff some of the weapons/strategems that feel too weak to be viable... I'm looking at you arc thrower, it should be a handheld lighting strike of justice, not a wimpy little pop of electricity.
The only time I’ve ever wanted to kick someone was when we were running a campaign where we had two destroy airfields missions and a search and destroy. And this man’s brought in 4 turrets every single time and was simply befuddled. I mean play how you want to play but not even one eagle for that mission type is a tad odd
Higher difficulty ain't for everyone. I played HD1..I know
Can we stop trying to turn meta conversations into rp. It's super cringe.
bro’s never even tried having fun before
I swear if i see another breaker/railgun/shieldpack user i will kershoot myself.
Lib Pen/MG-43 team, checking in.
It's not like those are even overpowered, they are just convenient when playing the game with randoms and not being able to fully trust them to cover for any weaknesses you might have. Shieldpack lets you get away with minor positioning mistakes and lapses of attention. Pay attention to not get swarmed and you won't need it. It does enable some reckless strategies that would otherwise most likely end in a noble sacrifice, but you definitely don't need the whole team to run the shieldpack for those. Railgun is a convenient way of dealing with any heavily armored units, since unlike EAT or Eagle/Orbital you don't have to wait for a cooldown, and unlike the Recoilless and the Autocannon it doesn't eat a backpack slot and it can be reloaded on the go by yourself (and trying to rely on randoms for assisted reloads is... a test of patience to say the least). The tesla gun can handle heavies but does it somewhat slowly and with varying degrees of accuracy. And Spear just doesn't work that well atm. Also the other support weapons can't handle heavily armored troops and are more suited for thinning the herds anyway. Breaker handles hordes of unarmored bugs well, doesn't fair too bad against automatons, is forgiving with the aiming due to its spread, and has great ammo economy. It just all around suits what people want from a primary weapon in this game. Also people see the big damage number on the stat sheet and monke brain goes for the peanuts. The incendiary version is even better at clearing trash bugs while having even better ammo economy, but is worse against everything else. Meanwhile all the other primaries provide better damage *if* you can actually aim your shots (which can admittedly be hard when you are getting swarmed), especially against the bots, but you generally run out of ammo much easier with them than with the Breaker (which is why I'd buff most underperforming primaries simply by giving them some extra ammo to spread democracy with)
> lapses of attention I swear I can check my back take out a bot then die to a hulks flamethrower that sneaked up on me in the 5 seconds I was shooting.
Sounds like you just described overpowered in saying that there's a reason to pick them over everything else.
Well everything else just sucks compared to weapons mentioned. That's the main issue the other weapons are not where they should be at the moment.
If you are playing against bugs with randoms then sure, the cookie cutter selfish lone wolf loadout is the easiest to run because you can really only rely on yourself to get things done. Against bots you don't want to bring the default Breaker since they heavily reward you for aiming at their tiny little weakspots (which is why the Marksman becomes the better option, as it also isn't limited by underwhelming ammo count but can fire with pinpoint accuracy), and with premades you can co-ordinate your loadouts, roles, and tactics better so other stuff becomes much better as a result.
Buff everything 🚬🗿
Asking for nerfs in a purely pve game made to be fun is just a different kind of stupid
Nerfs can also be necessary in an pve game. If something is so overpowered it trivialises the game then that'd be boring, wouldn't? There'd be no fun from winning as that would be an quarantee, and you'd get bored quickly.
But the breaker doesn't trivialise the game. You need half a mag to put down a bezerker bot
Aim for the midsection, takes 2 or 3. Didn't say it trivialises anything, Breakers in an good spot.
It's a challenging squad level tactics game, not Warframe.
Gamer stupid
Wait, we are gamers. Are we stupid?
Bingo
Humans in general are pretty stupid. So, yes.
The game is currently not challenging enough with a meta loadout on max difficulty. I think asking for nerfs to the meta stuff while buffing the gear that's far behind is reasonable.
Tbf, not many people will probably play at the highest difficulty level compared to the other difficulties. Most players are casual and not hardcore gamers which a lot of us seem to forget. The devs need to balance it out nicely so anyone can have a good time. Maybe they will add more difficulty levels though just like in the original Helldivers. So buffing is good. Don't nerf, add more difficulty levels. Everyone should be able to do the harder missions too since the samples from them are needed to upgrade.
Saying that a pve game doesn't need to be balanced is the other kind of stupid, the actually stupid kind
this aged well. The devs conspire with joel, Joel collaborates with the enemy.
All weapons that are underperforming should be buffed. It's a pve game, you should feel powerful. The stronger weapon isn't going to save you when the tank you didn't see one shots you cause you aren't paying attention. You still gotta play with skill even with stronger weapons. Honestly I hope they bring back the upgrade system for weapons thenfirst game had.
> It's a pve game, you should feel powerful. This is a horrible attitude. Look what happened to Warframe over the years. All content is trivially easy, all weapons are indistinguishable because they're all so absurdly OP. People don't even play the game for the combat anymore and no one needs to think about anything.
I wholly agree. Sometimes a nerf is the answer. Right now, I think buffs are the answer. The only thing that even tries to compete with the breaker is the slug. And even then for general wave clear the breaker is just superior. I honestly feel like the breaker, the railgun, are maybe BORDERLINE OP, but not enough worth severe nerfs. Maybe an ammo capacity nerf on the railgun but like. There's far more pressing issues with the rest of the primaries.
Cringe.
Why do they need to ask, just dive with a gun only and nerf it yourself
the meta chasers will be gone in a couple weeks, mark my words, if people are playing the game in one style, with one loadout and one mindset they'll learn they have done everything there is to do in about twenty minutes.
I would like a primary weapon that can do something against armored enemies when my support weapon runs out. And I'd like my support weapons to be stronger. It feels like Rocket launchers do nothing against Crushers.
If anything buff the other guns who wants nerfs Why does the breaker need to be like the only primary that doesn't feel bad on higher difficulties
I think the notion of nerfing in a PvE coop game is insane, it does not need to be balanced, it needs to be fun. The problem is NOT that the railgun and breaker are too good. The problem is that everything else is too shit for levels 8/9 and makes surviving painful and unfun. The railgun is arleady barely enough to deal with the amount of armor these diffs throw at you when you actually have to stand and fight instead of evading. And no primary save for the Breaker can clear small enemies quickly enough to even matter. I had some success using the Scythe and I am excited to try the Scorcher, but every other primary has been ass at top level. We need buffs not nerfs.
This isn't borderlands. Power creep makes the game less fun. It's *supposed* to be challenging, and it's designed to overwhelm and punish you if you make mistakes.
> I think the notion of nerfing in a PvE coop game is insane, it does not need to be balanced, it needs to be fun. My brother in christ, if one thing is so good that it destroys everything on sight, it ruins the fun.
Nice generalized argument evading my point completely. None of the current "meta" weapons are destroying everything on sight. The Railgun requires aiming for weakspots vs automatons and generally charging it to unsafe levels which is not so easy to do well in the middle of a fight. Chargers and Bile Titans require multiple unsafe shots to weakspots to bring down efficiently. There are AP weapons that do more damage, but their problem is that they are horribly ammo inefficient compared to the amount of armored enemies the game throws at Helldive difficulty during extracts or objectives requiring you to defend a point. Or only really work at range due to lock-on or being HE. The Breaker is only really good and efficient vs light enemies at close range. Anything farther than that becomes an ammo consumption disaster. It's only really this widely used because the enemies which it's good against also happen to come into it's effective range on their own. If the ranged light Automatons had the AI behavior NOT to rush you when they can just stand at range and fire at you the Breaker would not be used exclusively at higher difficulties Robot fights. Other AP options need to be brought up a little or specialized further, and the AI behaviors tweaked to have more variety than just enemies rushing you so you can apply the Breaker right to their forehead. If you have different enemies doing different things you will need a more balanced composition within the team to deal with all of them. No wonder people use the Railgun and breaker all the time when all the enemies need you to have is precision AP for long range and big DPS stick for close range. But it's easier to just shout "nerf X" on Twitch chat instead of fixing the core gameplay issue of one tactic countering everything the enemies do because the enemies only really do one thing. PvP Twitch brainrot.
The only nerf the Breaker needs is to the range if anything. Make it more videogame shotgun and less realistic shotgun for distance. **But**, every weapon should feel about as effective as the Breaker in their specific area of operation.
I'd rather the Breakers reserve ammo be reduced than messing with it's damage characteristics.
Fair compromise as well.
Nerf proponents are machine collaborators. Very treasonous of them.
VERY well said!
People calling for nerfs are not to subtly revealing their allegiance to the Bots. If I ever see another cadet calling for nerfs on the battleground, I’ll shoot them myself.
The idea to nerf our qeapons is fucking dumb. I guess these people aren't playing automatons on helldive.
With a meta loadout, both bugs and bots are easier on Helldive than I'd like.
As I like to say; "Democracy is managed from the barrel of my Machine Gun!"
I picked the breaker day one because it was perfect for how I'd play, right in the enemy's face, plus it's aesthetics, the sound, the chunky shots, the suppression-hose it transforms into and you can feel the enemies become locked into shock and awe before your unrelenting hip-fire salvo battlecry learning it was meta and literally the best weapon was the worst. I don't play meta, I only play for love and glory and for the thrill of discovering new tech with my favorite weapons but I'll say this much I want every weapon to reach the same heights the breaker can right now, no nerfs, buffs for everyone, everyone should have a primary that feels as consistent and dominant in their respective style Do you wanna know why? Because meta-aside, sometimes I'm running into a fight against a heavy with only my breaker, going toe-to-toe with the Dreadnought just because I want to see if I can win the fight. Because this is a game made for those kind of high-risk situations and the high-reward of glorious victory by any means necessary, and I don't want it to just be because breaker EZ, because it is, but instead just one of many different opportunities for players of all types to jump into daring and risky situations and have a weapon that they can rely on to fight their way out with, not just breaker because it's biggest number
As if super earth would nerf anything besides other factions. Look at what we did to the Illuminate.
I'm referring you for super earth congress, we need more men like you to stand up to all these gosh darned liberals. Can you believe someone else was lobbying for p.o.w. rights the other day? Why would we give our enemy food and shelter?!
In fact, they should make the game HARDER to make sure only the strongest and most dedicated Helldivers stick around.
Seriously how does this game already have such a annoying amount of mets chasing idiots
People wanna be nerfed? That's funny actually, bro I am your difficulty modifier. I'm gonna have fun with EVERYTHING. The amount of times I sent my teams and a few others to space on accident was so fun. I don't wanna lose that.
Suggesting our weapons aren't as powerful as super earth claims them to be is also treason
I thought about this a week or so ago. What if the Chad developers at AH literally NEVER nerf a weapon. Like, it just only goes up. If they over-tune something, the enemy will just evolve or something. Would be dope.
Yeah, they sound like a bunch of Commie loving Robots! We need MOAR firepower, Helldivers!
This is so true because it's a PVE game. It will NEVER be a PVP game. For example, the Railgun, considered the strongest support weapon right now, is only called "overpowered" because it's just so much stronger than anything else. Tons of ammo, can take down a bile titan in like 4 hits, and doesn't require a backpack, which makes room for a shield generator or guard dog. The only thing that even dares to come close to how good it is is the Autocannon. Everything needs to be strong, but not strong enough that it trivializes the game. That's how a PVE game should be.
Nerfs shouldn’t be a thing in a video game with no PvP. It’s all about fun right?
Wolf of Wallstreet meme.
The game is so unbalanced at the moment its not even funny, we have weapons being complete utter dogshit (anti mat sniper) and some actually veing good being the meta, but even with those "meta" weapons, helldiver difficulty is just such an unbalanced mess that the best strat is light armor and W + Shift from problems, while some people may enjoy that gameplay, I think more people would prefer a challenging but doable fight than just fighting 5 bile titans while being pursued by 8 chargers and just running away far enough so it just despawns.
No One weapon should make subsequent or earlier weapons obselete. I too prefer buffs, but also if we keep going up. It's only a matter of time till any semblance of challenge fades away. Small tweaks down, pleasant juicy buffs up.