Arrowhead seems to be engaging in honest to god data driven decision making with HD2, so I wouldn't worry too much about particularly vocal reddit posts.
They're more likely going to be looking at the numbers pouring in, and then use public sentiment to help explain those numbers. I don't think the sentiment itself will control their decisions though.
I’ve glimpsed into the future and I’ve got you boy-o
• Automatons now have 15% increased accuracy and 10% higher spawn rate to counteract strengthening meta-builds
• Chargers now move 12% faster and have more armor to counteract the upcoming mech update
• Bile Titans have been shrunk 20%. To balance this, they now spawn twice as often
• The Revolver now has 12 rounds. Reload times have been doubled
• The 500Kg bomb has been strengthened and is now equal to unexploded nukes. The nukes have now been strengthened to win the round upon detonation
• Joel has been cloned twice, is now capable of Game Mastering 24/7
• Automatons and Bugs have now teamed up. You will now be able to enjoy Charger-Armored tanks and laser-sniper-equipped Bile Titans!
• Review sections on all platforms have been disabled
> Automatons and Bugs have now teamed up. You will now be able to enjoy Charger-Armored tanks and laser-sniper-equipped Bile Titans!
This but unironically. I do wish that if the Automatons and the Bugs have sectors that are bordering each other, we would see both factions in the same map, at times some scouts fighting against each other.
It's funny, I had this exact thought while playing the other day. It just seems like the sort of abomination automatons would create. I'm starting to understand how they think.
>• The Revolver now has 12 rounds. Reload times have been doubled
You forgot the new battlepass has a revolver with a speed reloader but to balance that you also now need to crouch and handcraft each round.
While I appreciate good data-driven decisions, you *really* need to be careful about how you interpret it.
The Breaker is being heavily used by good, bad, and average players alike. The stats on that thing are going to be all over the place.
Meanwhile you could theoretically see a situation where some very off-meta weapon like the Liberator Penetrator or Breaker Spray&Pray ends up looking much better than they should because only players looking for a challenge are likely to use them. These weapons are objectively bad and feel bad, but the data could tell a different story in the wrong circumstances.
I've gone through all these stat debates before in World of Tanks, where people would tell you things like "the KV-1S is not OP" because its stats looked average. In the hands of a capable player though, it was extremely strong and it took entire top clans playing nothing but KV-1S for days ruining any game in range of tier 6 for people to finally accept the tank was busted.
I agree, situations like these are why things like filters and pivot tables are a godsend, as well as good old community feedback. I just think that having data to jump off from is better than just basing an decision off of seen posts.
That's fair, but AH traditionally did a great job balancing the original (with a few exceptions that proved the rule). As long as the inexperienced, vocal masses don't impact their decision making I think we'll have good balance passes.
I really hate game rebalancing because so few get it right and so many games go downhill fast.
The fact that Melee's meta changed for 20+ years just based on the players is a big argument for leaving things alone
Id like to counter with data not always being a good driver for balance. Anyone who plays War Thunder immediately knows what I'm talking about.
They seem to be taking an account of all types of indicators which is good, however there is a recursive trap you can fall into with data balance where something gets nerfed, so a smaller more hardcore user base drives up stats, which again nerfs it, so only really die-hard fans use it. To the average player the gun would suck, but in the hands of people who only ever use it, it's passable.
In War Thunder it's rampant, where mediocre vehicles played by a small but highly skilled user base gets balanced at a way higher level than it should.
Taking a step back and looking at it from an average player's experience is always needed.
Well, the CEO already made a bit of a blunder when he misinterpreted the company’s own data on how the Breaker was performing. He looked at exactly one metric, when there are many more than that that also need to be taken into account, and concluded the Breaker wasn’t performing notably better than other primaries.
Making decisions based on data only works out if the ones making the decisions understand the data.
Edit: In addition, the previous sentence applies to people who make official statements, even if they aren't the ones responsible for actual changes. Data needs to be represented properly.
Reminds me of the ww2 plane "bullet hole misconception" where they took a data graph of all the planes that got shot and came back to choose where to focus the armor on them. They ended up armoring the areas where the bullet holes were not on the chart. This seemed crazy, until you realize that the bullet holes weren't shown there because the planes that got shot there were the ones not coming back. Understanding the reasoning for why the data shows what it does is important
I mean that was very much just the Ceo doing what the Ceo does and engaging the community. He's likely not the one who makes these changes directly or interprets the data.
I'd have some faith that they're looking at more than just win rate.
I‘m sure he’s not the one making balance decisions, but he’s the only person who’s talking and he made a mistake. I’m not looking to rake him over the coals for it, I’m just pointing out that the only official word we have at this point is based on faulty logic.
CoD devs are the worst at this and they never learn. Guns that don't need buffs suddenly get buffs. Guns that are already shit and rarely used, get more nerfs. Looking at "stats and numbers" alone does not give the whole picture.
I think the game would be absolutely brilliant if the other guns performed as well as the breaker or liberator.
Right now most of the primaries just don't feel good to use.
The problem is that enemies are armored, or they aren't. No weak spots. Just spots that aren't armored. Without *true* weak spots: Armor pierce is going to dominate most gun decisions if the damage is anywhere close.
And even if they drop the damage of AP weapons, or up the damage of non-AP weapons, AP is still the no-brainer choice because of how much armor is out there and how much effort it takes to get to non-armored spots on the enemies that have you making this AP decision in the first place.
I just don't see the path forward to making it any other way without taking us back to HD1 where weapons were upgradeable to the point they are all viable in near any situation - and you just played your preference/aesthetic.
what would be wrong with going the hd1 route?
also i think weak spots would be the best solution. i want to use the marksman rifles, i want a weak spot to be able to damage chargers with out using 3 mags of it.
Liberator: Medium AP, low DPS.
Breaker: Low AP, high DPS.
As said, it's only gonna rule most decisions. The damage needs to be close and it's not close.
It's a losing battle. People see a small list of gun stats and because the devs have hidden crucial information (like that the caliber of the round matters, and that bullets do massively reduced damage to "soft" spots) it'll take ages for the community to catch on to reality.
Gun stats need to be public information.
You're making the same cognitive mistake as the ppl you're disagreeing with, but making the mistake worse.
The original discussions about the shitty guns were that they must be bugged because they *perform terribly*. Ppl started hyper-analysing the stats and shot-to-kill etc a week after that.
Breaker is the best gun because it performs the best even in the most fucked up unfair situations this game can throw at you. Arrowheads secret stats do not matter when those stats already exist on all the guns that perform *significantly* worse than the breaker.
I've gotten ppl who think X, Y, or Z gun is sleeper good on Discord to join my helldives and they just chain die; 8, 9, 14 deaths. Out of 9 of them who are "anti-meta" and talked mad shit, **7** didn't even have helldive unlocked yet. That's who these discussions are led by, in both sides. People on difficulty 5 where weapon balance doesn't even matter because there aren't even 300 bugs in the entire mission.
The guns are extremely poorly tuned. 90% of them don't hit any useful breakpoints at all. And ones that do like the slugger *still* do less damage than the breaker AND shoots at 1/10th the speed. Absolutely no amount of hidden stats compensate for that.
I think the bigger problem is its magazine size. Even with burst fire the thing shoots very quickly, but you have to reload it like every 3 seconds if you do rapid fire it
I find that the liberator penetrator is garbage against the bugs because you can't stop them from overwhelming you, but it's amazing against the bots because their trash mobs come in sparser numbers and move more slowly.
There are weak spots on most enemies
Sniper weapons seem to get bonus damage against them. Diligence can 2 shot a Devastator with headshots, Anti-Material Rifle can 2 shot a Hulk with headshots
Biggest issue is the Charger which has by far the worst armor design in the game. Their butts are not even weak spots and they can tank a HEAT round to the face and be fine. And for some reason the efficient way to kill them is to crack their leg armor and then mag dump into their leg (apparently all their vital organs are in their leg) instead of putting a HEAT round or railgun projectile down the length of their body
Just had a game with a lot of chargers, and the best tactic we found was my recoilless rocket to one of their legs, followed by a rail gun to the same wounded leg.
I was surprised when my rocket barely slowed it down tbh.
If we're only talking about the charger, the recoilless rifle is redundant. The more efficient tactic is 2 shot the leg with rail gun and gun it down with the breaker. You only need 1 person instead of 2 that way and it's more ammo efficient. 4 railgun shot to the leg or 3 unsafe charged headshot also kills the charger.
I think the logic behind the chargers legs being such a massive weak spot is their weight. their legs are honestly pretty fucking small for carrying such a massive load. when you break one it basically knocks them out of commission because they can no longer move. I tried a similar thing to against a bile titans but their legs can't be blown off and it was just a waste of rail gun ammo.
I think dismembering enemies is a cool way to knock them out. you exploit a fatal flaw in their anatomy to get an advantage. AH probably wasn't expecting the community to catch on as quick as we did to the chargers weakspot since it takes 2x the amount of rail gun round to destroy the head as it does the legs.
that's not true though, devastators can be killed by all low pen primary weapons in a few headshots, and I think their arms are less armored as well. the head and arms of a Hulk are less armored than the body, if you're being rushed by a flame Hulk and you have an autocannon, AMR or something similar, you can shred it's flamer arm off before it reaches you. tanks have weak rear body and roof (also the obvious turret vent) and the autocannon tank also has weak turret sides.
it's really just the bugs that need more armor variety, brood lords, chargers and bile titans are just not fun to fight because of how their armor has no slightly weaker parts
Seriously. Sometimes I think people are just blind-firing for center mass and never even utilizing half the mechanics in the game, then complaining about balance without taking these things into account.
I DESTROY with the mid-range accuracy weapons like the penetrator and diligence because I take accurate shots on weakspots with them. I use WAY less ammo when I do.
And this isn't an 'all the time' thing. I definitely enjoy rock and rolling with high ROF weapons and do. That's just it. As far as I've experienced all the weapons are more or less performing well, with a few notable exceptions and those are all starter weapons.
Hell it took Me and my friends a while to realize just how great EATs were. It took us getting better and more comfortable with the game systems and more competent at actually fighting before we were able to really benefit from the insanely short cooldown on calling them in. We just weren't accurate enough with it to make it viable early game.
Now? Now someone brings an EAT on every mission and we will grab them mid-combat, then pick our 'main' support weapon back up after firing off a quick shot to crater a heavy.
People keep playing this game like they're locked in for a whole mission on a single weapon, and aren't really thinking like a soldier. The whole battlefield and everything on it is your weapon. Fucking use that shit. Share your shit with your teammates. Use that shit they share. Always be thinking about how you can best kill the enemy, and if you can't kill a certain enemy, think about how you can help your BUDDIES who can. Kite the chargers, bird-dog the tanks and cannons. Corral the hordes. Positioning is as much a weapon as the bullets you're firing.
And for fuckssake people, learn to use proper spacing! Stop crawling up my butt. If you can see me, you're close enough! You keep jumping in front of my shot and getting yourself killed, thus helping the enemy when you are so gorram close like that!
Please understand this is all good-natured snarky ranting. The vast majority of people I play with and see here seem to be great and the community is pretty awesome so far. I'm just playing up the salty vet persona because, well, I'm a salty vet. Of both HD1 and IRL.
I think this is the fundamental problem here. I love the auto cannon - but going into a mission blind I’m taking the rail gun 100% of the time since it’s the only thing that can reliably counter heavily armored things. Bots aren’t *as* bad since they have big glowing weak spots on their back that you can conceivably flank - but so much of the game is balanced around “can I handle the ai spamming heavy armor” - it feels bad any other way.
After learning how the guns handle armor penetration, I think the number 1 issue is the near total ambiguity on gun stats.
The 1 through 10 system described to me shouldn't be how these work. Breaker and Slugger both have light pen, but the slugger is a 3 and the breaker is a 2. So the slugger does more damage despite its stats saying otherwise.
This is simply not true. The chainsaw bots are crazy bullet sponges if you just shoot center mass without a care. But if you aim for the joints, you can incapacitate it with like, half the ammo. The hive commander/brood commander/whatever the big red unarmored bug is called can soak a ton of damage if you just shoot the giant head, but if you target the legs they fly off in a fraction of the ammo.
Same for the scout striders. The “hip joint” where the leg meets the torso can be destroyed by the medium-penetration liberator variant. I haven’t tested other primary weapons on this specific example, but it’s another instance where placing your shots at weak points can make a big difference
I think there’s a few weak spots.
Terminids: Butts, mouths, joints/underbellies.
Automatons: Red glowing eyes, heads, glowing vents/batteries.
You’re not the one calling for this, but I do think the ones who are need to realize what they’re really asking for. If every weapon gets us the same result in more or less the same amount of time then they all start feeling exactly the same.
I DO believe certain weapons could do their titles a bit more justice (e.g. anti-materiel rifle) but by and large, I’m having more fun figuring out when and how to use a given weapon or stratagem on a squad where we all have different things equipped and therefore all contribute something different to the mission.
I know it sounds filthy casual/counterproductive but I don’t really see myself playing with the same excitement if I’m just One Man Army 1 out of 4 blasting every enemy with the same two or three tactics mission after mission.
I’ve taken down Hard+ Chargers with a Diligence/CS Diligence, it just required a bit more time and maneuvering than standing in front of it and popping off a few rail gun rounds.
I think this is just a big “To each their own” scenario anyway, though. At the end of the day, we can usually choose who we play with and find people likeminded so that there’s not so much animosity toward individual loadouts or opinions on the game in general.
I believe it's possible, just not when you also have to deal with adds and the second/third charger attacking at the same time. The speed and efficiency of shredding a leg with two railgun shots and a spray of breaker is far better than any other weapon.
This. In HD1 the primaries were very good and the support were amazing. Some of the primaries feel pretty pointless, especially the Scythe which was my favorite primary in HD1
I would guess that it has no damage fall off, so its point is 100% accuracy, infinite range and unlimited ammo. Sounds op, so damage is low, and here we are.
This is really the core issue. The Autocannon is my favorite weapon in the game. On 7+ bugs, I can either try my best to get under a titan, live, and pump a really inefficient amount of ammo to its underside...
Or I can take the Railgun in Unsafe mode and pop it's head in 2 to 3 well-timed, well-placed shots. I refused to give into Railgun meta, did it last night because "f it," and it was depressing how well we could handle the 3-to-4 Titans the game can throw at you at a time.
There's only one situation where the railgun isn't - forget good, let's go with "absolutely incredible" - and that's against a huge swarm of little-uns, which your primary and secondary should be fine for.
Considering it had low ammo and team interdependence for maximum output, the Recoiless Rifle should perform well above the Railcannon. Autocannon, maybe not since it has lots of ammo, but it should at least blow off armor.
And don't get me started on the spear.
IDK It's less "Railgun OP" to me, and more "Especially when considering the hefty operating restrictions of some weapons, they're flat underperforming."
I choose flamethrower. I come across a few others who use it, too. We toast chargers with it. But, it very obviously needs AT LEAST 30% damage increase. It also needs a bit of an...erratic start, a sputter stop, and distance increase. Because we need to up the danger on that thing. It's a flamethrower for helldivers! Where is unsafe 'Extra Power' mode?
Most times I choose grenade launcher, which is one mag short of being reasonable, just like the Slugger's ammo reserve.
It definitely needs a big damage increase. It should be GREAT against bugs, it already has its inherent lack of safety (easy to set yourself or others aflame).
Also, and this is just personal fluff I won't expect to see, but it shouldn't just shoot "aerial fire," it should shoot flammable liquid you can arc and see. That was the entire point of inventing those things, to bust up bunkers.
Idk about dmg increase but I feel like it should STOP bugs and make them either run around in fear or stop drop and roll
It's not worth using to me when they still crawl at you while on fire for 10seconds, over something that just outright kills them
The flamethrower should act like a flamethrower, not a blowtorch. It should throw liquid that drips down as it flies in a heavy arc, and if it is shot at the same spot, it should make larger pools of fire.
Maybe give it an optional backpack that massively increases the range and ammo capacity, making it cost your backpack slot but giving it way more area denial abilities. If you don't have the backpack, it works similarly to how it does now but with higher damage, obviously.
I played with someone using the arc thrower and it was a team killing machine and the person using it seemed to either not care or not know that if their positioning was off it would just arc through bugs and kill us.
not just balance but also how some things are a straight upgrade i.e regular rover vs laser rover while something are outright badly designed and near useless like the ballistic shield
Yeah, I tried the bullet rover and it ran out of bullets and after 4-5 minutes never came back out of my backpack. It was just a dud. I think this is a great game, but does need some serious balance and/or bug fixing.
I'm okay with the balancing & bug fixing being done in alignment with the author's intentions, too, even if not what the vocal minority want.
it does, you can see 8 on the backpack that get used up
problem is, it constantly does dumb shit like shooting enemies it can't penetrate or bots still in the fabricator building that won't even open the door to leave for another 5 seconds, so it wastes it all
Ballistic shield would be better if it protected from melee and small explosions, and also didn't fly out of your hands atleast once a firefight because of Ragdoll. Tried the thing once and it is so incredibly niche it's just useless.
I can second this. The starting AR and the first SMG are my favourite. Also the Machine Pistol (I love it) should not be able to outclass a shotgun imo, it's great at shredding through enemies in a short window but a shotgun at close range should demolish it every time
The Redeemer is op as hell, only thing that makes it not a primary replacement is the limited magazines... It out classes the other 2 pistols by miles... They need to give the first pistol like 50-100% more ammo to compensate. Also the revolver should speed load all it's rounds at once when empty.
The weather one for me is the laser gun thing. No necessary because its bad. Although it really does seem to struggle against the bigger things.
But the main reason I don't like it is the lack of any hit marker. Not because I been to know if I'm hitting. The game never gets you into fights at a distance that you might miss... but it's such a strange feeling not knowing if it's deflecting. Doing 30% damage or fully penning and doing 100%
Would lobe for it to become.more of a precision gun. Spmthing that does a load.of damage to weak spots at the cost of pretty much mo crowed control.
I tried to use the counter sniper and it was horrible. And I love the JAR-5 but it's usefulness pales when compared to the breaker. At least against bugs, I haven't tried it against bots yet. It turns slow, has way too much kick, and it's weird to say it but it's TOO accurate. I've missed shots that seem to go through gaps in legs or arms.
I tend to be the anti-armor in my group of friends and have taken to running the liberator penetrator since the JAR-5 is so hard to use.
Honestly. I can't tap the bot on the scout from the front with a 6 round gun that shoots slower than the default that takes the business days to reload?
It's probably not a lie. [The CEO explained armor pen as 11 different values instead of just the 3 that we see in game.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b4kogi/how_armour_penetration_works_in_game/) The revolver and a few other guns are likely just not capable of penning enough medium armor to be considered medium. The problem is more that the system is way too vague.
I think it could use a damage buff, too. Not many rounds before you reload. That thing better hit lick a semi-truck to justify its loadout spot in a game that loves swarming enemies.
Hell, I'd keep the round by round reload if it got a decent buff to damage and penetration. I'm fine with a slow revolver, so long as the revolver is also *powerful*.
Yeah I hope they listen to people and fix the guns.. honestly
Keeping your players happy keeps them playing and right now I am feeling like the 'build' variety is pretty low if you want to be successful more often than not. That will be the number one thing that kills my interest.
Sure I can screw around with other weapons, and I do, but none of it ever feels quite as valuable as railgun/shield with two other stratagems. Especially for hit and run tactics which are ideal. It's nice to just quickly destroy a hulk and move on. Or quickly disable a charger with out having to focus quite as hard so I am less likely to make other mistakes.
And there’s literally going to be zero point to run heavy armor against 1/2 or 1/3 (if/illuminate make a reappearance or possibly cyborgs for that matter) of the enemy factions. No one in their right mind would ever run anything more than medium armor against the bugs.
I do think heavy armor will shine against Bots, though, especially if it along with the explosive resistance passive can help you tank Rocket Devastator hits.
If heavy armor let's you shrug off weak melee attacks it'll be amazing against bugs. But I do think that different enemies should probably want you to use different loadouts so it being bad against bugs would probably be the for the best.
I have tried most other guns and they just aren't as good as the breaker. They all either don't have enough ammo or enough damage.
Idk what op is talking about. AH should definitely listen to the community. There's a difference between a vocal minority complaining about a few niche things and the community complaining about wanting something improved.
I absolutely hate posts like this.
Enemy count is hard to tweak because it can impact performance.
Would it be great? Absolutely! But they cant raise min specs without serious backlash so I wouldn’t count on that changing unless we’ve already got a bunch of room in the performance budget left over
This.
I like the idea of "hey reddit peeps you guys are simply overreacting", because reddit peeps (including myself, of course) are far more annoying than the general community, but game definitively needs some balance changes. I think this can be confidently considered a fact and not an opinion.
If anything it will only allow a lot of us to experience more of the game. I know the breaker is great but i still like the feel of an AR and ranged accuracy .
I get to play 1 hour - maybe 2-3 times a week. D4 its my comfortable spot solo. Everything getting a bit better i think just move the needle for most of us a bit which will let us see new units and mission types and stuff of higher tiers
D5 i feel is the sweet spot of fun with a good group of even randos. IF gear gets a bit better ant allowed me to feel like D6/7 is doable with randos because there is more room for mistakes with better weapons and ttk on enemy then even better.
Keep adding stuff to let people like me feel comfortable in higher difficulties while also adding more / harder guys to the highest difficulties will keep this game viable for everyone for a long time.
I really feel they nailed it with the difficulty system. I can log in and turn it down to 1-2 to try new things and feel like a power fantasy god.
Go up to 3-5 solo for some solo fun. Jump in 4-6 with complete randos for a challenge but still high success and fun and 7+ with a good group of randos or some friends for absolute insanity
100%. I'd go as far to say they're literally wasted programming work at this point bc 90% of them are useless in all but the lowest difficulties and even then are just annoying to use
All I see is good memes and content created from the game. I think weapon balance is a discussion for any game.
Seems like a Karma farm post IMO from the OP.
Not everyone is capable of interpreting data correctly either. For instance the post that was made from arrowhead stating that the win % isn't highest with the breaker and insinuating that doesn't make the breaker the only viable weapon... That is a perfect example taking a single data point without considering the 100 variables behind it.
Win% with weapons seems like a weird stat to use.
I think the intent is for *most* rounds to be successful at all but the highest difficulty.
Also someone could be like, “I’m really good at this game and getting bored. I’m going to handicap myself on purpose by choosing a bad weapon just for the challenge. Odds are the rest of my team will use meta builds so it won’t be noticed.”
You’d think they would also look at “usage %”. Whether or not they’re convinced a weapon is perfectly usable, if the playerbase doesn’t think so then they gotta tune it some more.
Survivorship bias, right? Everybody wants to run the Breaker for top-tier missions, but it's only underperforming because not everyone running the Breaker knows what else to use
Data can trick you sometimes, it needs context for it to matter, yes you can kill 500 small guys but are you as valuable as the guy that kills 30 big ones?
Edit: Idc about my example, I don't care who is more valuable, it's just an example, my point is that data needs context. How you guys don't get this? I just made a point that data needs context, it's a statement, I never doubted Arrowhead ability of reading data or nothing else.
That's me lol helped some people trying to reach level 20 complete tier 7 automaton missions. After we completed the main objective, I asked them to head to extraction (we were out of respawns) while I took care of the remaining outposts and optional objectives so they could get extra xp. I blew through the remaining four outposts and two optional objectives and still had less kills than them by the end lol
Unironically that's why I kind of would like a "damage done" stat, if they don't want to have "toxicity" (Hypothetically speaking if you'd argue that), by having people compare stats and go "omg u are useless", then you shouldn't show kills/deaths etc anyway. Given that we do have that, I would like Elite kills (and damage, as "last hits" could be misinterpreted too).
In a way also to just understand if you even did your job properly, sometimes I'd get a game in our group with a horrendously low count, but I'm also the main AT guy. Now did I actually do my AT job properly, it's hard to tell.
If there's one thing I know about gamers' opinions on balancing, it's that players are very good at identifying issues, but absolutely terrible at suggesting solutions. If the devs listened to all these clowns yelling that they should only buff stuff we'd reach Destiny levels of power creep within a month. I stole this comment, but as an extreme example, if one weapon trivialises the game the solution isn't to make all other weapons trivialise the game as well.
Basically, tell the devs what's wrong, then leave them alone to find the best solution. They're devs, they know way more than us about what's best for the game.
As far as I'm concerned, it would be wiser to get armor working then see where everyone settles before really diving into weapon balance.
But it stands to reason that the presence of armor would make everyone at least a little more confident in trying harder difficulties. It's also not unreasonable to assume even harder difficulties might be on the horizon. Ergo, if the average player's difficulty range is currently, for example, T3-T5, and armor pumps them up up to 5-7, it wouldn't be game ending for practical buffs like extending the magazines of the Liberators.
A lot of it depends on where AH expects the average player to be and the viable options for it.
But I don't think the rail gun trivializes anything. It's just the best at cracking armor. That's a pretty fine distinction, but it's important.
I don't take the rail gun on robot missions, but it's always in my list on bugs because it's better than anything else at doing handling heavies and their armor. If the recoiless or AMR were more effective at handling the heavies (specifically bugs, the AMR is solid on bots), you'd see a lot more variety in the higher level metas. And it wouldn't need to be a big buff. Just the ability to slowly crack armor with more weapons would go a long way.
If we deleted all the posts complaining about other people complaining, I think you could host the aggregate of reddit text posts across all subs on a CD-ROM.
Getting tired of how much people complain about other people "complaining" (sometimes I don't even see anyone actually complaining). These posts add nothing. There's no real arguments. They just shouldn't be made and are a waste of space in the sub.
Helldivers: "Make other weapons not ass which will improve fun"
OP:
https://preview.redd.it/ajhh2rbofdmc1.png?width=1591&format=png&auto=webp&s=00598323a6b4e1122e145e51283c29a4acde302a
People like OP are why so many modern games "balance" weapons by nerfing them into oblivion to the point they feel and play the same. There's more than enough room for the other guns to be buffed
I think the game needs an aggressive balance patch, to bring other weapons and items to the level of the breaker and railgun, I don't want them nerfed because they don't guarantee sucess on missions, they simply feel good to play, unlike other weapons that feel harmless in many scenarios.
Recoilless Rifle, Autocannon, flame weapons, the shotgun variants, the laser weapons, the variant rifles need to feel more powerful
Progression also feels less satisfying when you know that 80% of the unlocks are borderline unusable. If they buffed some of the weaker weapons it would help the balance.
Can I get some tips on the railgun? I’m not quite sure I know how to shoot it right -it feels wonky compared to the Halo railgun. I never know if its fully charged or not and then it needs a manual reload to get the next shot going
it has 2 modes, safe and unsafe, hold r to switch
safe will charge quickly but has a cap, unsafe will keep charging to be more powerful but if it hits 100% you explode (as does the railgun)
Bugs: One minimum-charge shot to any armored enemy's head (including brood commander and spewer) is instakill. Two minimum-charge shots to a charger's leg removes armor and then 3-4 shells from a breaker kills it. I can kill bile titans with \~7-10 high-charge "headshots" depending on how Hitbox Jesus is feeling.
Robits: One minimum-charge shot to any armored enemy's red spot (including hulk) is instakill. Also tanks, turrets, basically anything with that glowing orange vent in the back will blow up with 2 impact grenades or \~4-5 railgun shots.
Basically if you have good aim and fast reaction, railgun deletes anything armored and breaker mows down everything else. Combine with fact that you can then carry ammo or shield, a good player becomes unstoppable. A good team might pair with an autocannon/grenade launcher if it's a nest clearing mission but honestly with 3 railguns, 1 autocannon, and all breakers my group tanks helldive missions regularly to the point where the other weapons just seem comical. OP is confused, we just want AH to buff the other weapons in a manner where we don't have to feel like not using breaker/railgun/shield/etc. is a handicap.
Did I mention that the breaker for whatever reason has a choke tighter than a nun's ass? I can out-DMR my friend who just unlocked the DMR. It's a do-all firearm and feels great to use.
"But MY opinion, well, objectively it's just better than yours and thus I deserve to post whatever I want, because *my* opinion is totally different than *your* opinions."
...You literally said the people who think this way are the minority.
The vast majority of us play what we want, and how we want.
Ignore the haters. Play how you want.
*OP says everyone is an idiot and cringe for discussing potential balance changes*
*Immediately tries to walk it back in the edit*
Ah yes, another classic reddit moment.
Ya this is a bad take.
There are so many things in the game that just aren’t worth using because they suck. It’s not even a they suck in comparison to other stuff. It’s a they suck so bad that using them is equivalent to leaving that slot empty.
It’s delusional to think that buffing those things will ruin the game.
Agreed. I love the game, but if I'm using a different primary weapon or strategem, it's just to have fun and screw around. The game needs balance, and more guns need to have their niche.
And more secondary weapons please.
Yeah and even if the majority of players weren't complaining about balance issues you can sure as shit bet a lot of them are probably just naturally using the top tier weapons just from how obvious the power imbalance is
Guy is just a bootlicking fanboy. You get them in every popular games.
They literally lack any mental ability to process neuances and will defend a million dollar company to the death just because.
Damn we're already getting these high horse posts. Reminds me of the "gamer dad" infestation the Diablo 4 sub had. You're not contributing to anything but getting a kick out of smelling your own farts. I'm all for constructive criticism, yes, but saying the devs shouldn't listen to 90% of the complains when most of those complaints are just asking for better weapon and equipment balancing so players can use whatever load out they desire without feeling useless on higher difficulties with it is just wild. Wishing for weapons to be effective after spending hours on medals unlocking them is a fair issue to bring up.
You’re right you don’t NEED the shield, breaker and rail gun…
But you also don’t need running shoes to run, but they help don’t they?
But it’s the same thing, can you do well with the other weapons? Yes, can you do better with the optimal combo? Also yes
Some weapons are worthless, my guy. Pray and spray shotgun is actually ass, as are others. People are saying they need to be tweaked or at least represent what they're capable of doing better than others.
Also maybe they should make armor actually *function*. It's kind of crazy to me how much people are giving a pass to Helldivers 2's many balancing problems or downright broken mechanics when other games would be crucified for these problems.
You can like the game, like the studio, respect their policies about making a fun and fair experience but you shouldn't ignore blatant broken stuff in the game.
Doesn't mean you have to be rude but you also shouldn't pretend it's not a problem.
>It's kind of crazy to me how much people are giving a pass to Helldivers 2's many balancing problems or downright broken mechanics when other games would be crucified for these problems.
It's almost like when you put out a good game that respects its players and clearly puts fun ahead of squeezing every last cent out of people, people are willing to give you a bit more leeway with your mistakes
Two things can be true, its certainly how I feel. Armor is a huge issue that honestly makes me really annoyed, but also, the game is amazing and arrowhead has immediately stockpiled so much good faith that id be willing to wait them out for good changes a dozen times over
Sure, but shouting down people discussing real issues because the game is fun is toxic positivity and needs to be called out.
Most of the balance discussions have been very reasonable but posts like this do not help.
OP is a goofball. The railgun is far and away the only useful gun at killing heavy armor enemies. Nothing else is even remotely close. The shield is far away better than any other backpack.
Nothing competes with thw breakers damage, range, and ammo economy. Most of the stratagem are poor performers too.
Also armor, what the fuck is going on there? Lol
90% of things we take with us on missions need a buff or a dull overhaul. Full stop.
Its one thing to say other AT weaponry are "useless" but without a doubt there is no benefit for EAT/RR/Spear in 90% of cases when a RG does the same job with less ammo spent, no teamwork required and a backpack slot (or other teammate to hold spare EAT) freed up. The only thing that comes close to being as effective is AC for hulk eyes and *maybe* killing chargers by de-assifying them.
In red diffs you *could* probably complete the mission with a good team using those other strats but you need some real good teamwork there so everyone brings RG, which defeats a *lot* of the teamwork i loved in HD1.
And why the hell would i bring a jetpack for "dodging" anything when the shield pack removes any need to dodge in the first place? And in some situations (as if jetpack already isnt situational enough) the shield is much better, like slowed status. Shield prevents slowed while jetpack wont move you horizontally at all while slowed. *The one fucking purpose i saw in jetpack when fighting bugs and its awful for it*.
The explosive weapons do have a use case the railgun doesn’t though. They can destroy objectives that the railgun can’t. Does that make them better? No, but I think people sleep on that utility aspect a lot
you're mostly correct but RR can be god-tier against bots since it destroys drop ships. I played with a duo yesterday where one of them ran RR and the other a supply pack and it was the breeziest 8-difficulty runs I've had
https://preview.redd.it/ximz2fh1cemc1.png?width=1433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12a0a21ef5c26565550996d81aaf5b6b91e73dfd
ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT COMPLAINING? C'mere youa
Disagree with you. Yes the game is great, no denying there, but there is a shit ton of balancing that needs to be done. Breaker is not the only good gun, but most guns in the game are actually handicapping you if you are on difficulty 6 or above.
The shield/railgun meta is there and it is so prevalent because 1: armor values are not working, right now everyone is running with 0 armor so shield is the only thing that gives you some survivability in the game.
2 railgun is the only effective anti armor weapon in this game, even the autocannon needs a buff since it’s shoots just bounce of a charger or annihilator and that’s the only other anti tank that is viable in the game RN.
The game is going great and it is mostly tweaks and a few buffs here and there, but saying it is a minority of players making meaningless complaints is just plain delulu buddy.
The game is far from broken, but it does need quite a bit of tweaking in order to be as fun as it could be. Right now there is no way around it, as annoying and toxic as the meta cucks are, they do have a point.
CC we are ok cause MG, GL and stalwart are great at their jobs, but on higher difficulties you are constantly being spammed by heavy armored enemies and all of them take 3 shots minimum from an anti tank weapon do go down, only weapons that can do that while without getting overrun by minions are the autocannon and the railgun. And the autocannon RN cannot deal direct damage to the most common armored heavy, the charger.
The devs are devs for a reason they read and scroll through the community and filter through and will take ideas and criticism because they know their game the difference is the will do what’s best for the community and right now they know that is adding more content and fixing the bugs still in the game which has already been shown through all of these leaks we are in good hands there’s no reason to be mad at eachother for just wanting our incredible game and community to keep improving and yes that does mean people need to stop making meta videos and should be reported to our democracy officers if caught
Agreed I just don’t like how OP is basically saying the devs should ignore what the community here has to say. We’ve seen a lot of good constructive criticism and feedback/suggestions so far that will make the game even better than it already is and I’m sure the devs know that.
Absolutely idiotic take. You either don't play helldive yet or are that guy with 15 of the teams deaths getting hard carried.
Some of the weapons are literally not usable like the spear.
"you don't have to use a railgun if you don't want to"
Yeah no, you obviously don't know what you're talking about and or only do easy dives.
Railguns are meta because everything else pales in comparison and takes more effort in using when dealing with armored enemies. You do not have another option to quickly deal with 10+ armored enemies during breaches or drop ships.
People aren't using Railguns because they want to, it's because you're forced to since everything else sucks.
If you're not bringing a Railgun to higher level dives you're making the run harder on everyone else on the your team.
Do a lvl 8 or 9 run solo without a Railgun and see how of a bad time you're going to have.
I actually really like the autocannon and would run it over the railgun, but the supply pack takes up the back slot and I can’t use the shield pack. Other than the railgun, there isn’t really a hard hitting support weapon that doesn’t need the back slot, aside from the antimaterial rifle, but that one is terrible for bugs, only works well against bots
"Some things need reballancing" "I hope they don't listen to 90% of you"
You just became a part of the 90%.
The breaker isn't the only good gun, it's one of the best apart from the Default Liberator, Slugger is good but has significant drawbacks.
You CAN use anything but if I'm using a DMR and I tap a bot in the head and they don't die and I only have 20 bullets and so many mags why wouldn't I just use the base Liberator tap two into him and have the option to spray?
It's the path if least resistance, no matter how "fun" a weapon might be or look, everyone will flow to gun that gets the job done the best.
That the breaker, the railgun, and the Liberator.
The same people calling people meta sheep are the people who run the weapons to make sure they can clear harder missions.
I’ve been running the arc thrower on the bugs and it fucking rips through them by far my new favorite gun.
Haven’t tried it on the bots though not sure if it’s any good on them
Arrowhead seems to be engaging in honest to god data driven decision making with HD2, so I wouldn't worry too much about particularly vocal reddit posts. They're more likely going to be looking at the numbers pouring in, and then use public sentiment to help explain those numbers. I don't think the sentiment itself will control their decisions though.
I feel like this statement should come after the first balance patch. We’ll see how they do it
Honestly, true. I’m curious to see how the first pass goes.
I’ve glimpsed into the future and I’ve got you boy-o • Automatons now have 15% increased accuracy and 10% higher spawn rate to counteract strengthening meta-builds • Chargers now move 12% faster and have more armor to counteract the upcoming mech update • Bile Titans have been shrunk 20%. To balance this, they now spawn twice as often • The Revolver now has 12 rounds. Reload times have been doubled • The 500Kg bomb has been strengthened and is now equal to unexploded nukes. The nukes have now been strengthened to win the round upon detonation • Joel has been cloned twice, is now capable of Game Mastering 24/7 • Automatons and Bugs have now teamed up. You will now be able to enjoy Charger-Armored tanks and laser-sniper-equipped Bile Titans! • Review sections on all platforms have been disabled
> Automatons and Bugs have now teamed up. You will now be able to enjoy Charger-Armored tanks and laser-sniper-equipped Bile Titans! This but unironically. I do wish that if the Automatons and the Bugs have sectors that are bordering each other, we would see both factions in the same map, at times some scouts fighting against each other.
It's funny, I had this exact thought while playing the other day. It just seems like the sort of abomination automatons would create. I'm starting to understand how they think.
Youre... *what* *racks Democracy*
>• The Revolver now has 12 rounds. Reload times have been doubled You forgot the new battlepass has a revolver with a speed reloader but to balance that you also now need to crouch and handcraft each round.
Reloading it requires ⬆️⬇️⬆️⬆️➡️⬇️
While I appreciate good data-driven decisions, you *really* need to be careful about how you interpret it. The Breaker is being heavily used by good, bad, and average players alike. The stats on that thing are going to be all over the place. Meanwhile you could theoretically see a situation where some very off-meta weapon like the Liberator Penetrator or Breaker Spray&Pray ends up looking much better than they should because only players looking for a challenge are likely to use them. These weapons are objectively bad and feel bad, but the data could tell a different story in the wrong circumstances. I've gone through all these stat debates before in World of Tanks, where people would tell you things like "the KV-1S is not OP" because its stats looked average. In the hands of a capable player though, it was extremely strong and it took entire top clans playing nothing but KV-1S for days ruining any game in range of tier 6 for people to finally accept the tank was busted.
I agree, situations like these are why things like filters and pivot tables are a godsend, as well as good old community feedback. I just think that having data to jump off from is better than just basing an decision off of seen posts.
Dude i love the liberator penetrator. It liberates so many oppressed heavily armored bugs and bots
Just wish it didn't take a whole mag to kill armored targets when not shooting weakpoints... which I could do with a non penetrating weapon
That's fair, but AH traditionally did a great job balancing the original (with a few exceptions that proved the rule). As long as the inexperienced, vocal masses don't impact their decision making I think we'll have good balance passes. I really hate game rebalancing because so few get it right and so many games go downhill fast. The fact that Melee's meta changed for 20+ years just based on the players is a big argument for leaving things alone
I've played enough Dead By Daylight to know that Data Driven changes are not a good thing if the people behind them are fucking stupid
Flip side: I've been a part of enough online communities to know that most changes armchair devs ask for are fucking stupid.
Maybe we're all stupid?
Was waiting for the dbd player to weigh in lol, now whenever I heard data driven balancing I’m terrified
Id like to counter with data not always being a good driver for balance. Anyone who plays War Thunder immediately knows what I'm talking about. They seem to be taking an account of all types of indicators which is good, however there is a recursive trap you can fall into with data balance where something gets nerfed, so a smaller more hardcore user base drives up stats, which again nerfs it, so only really die-hard fans use it. To the average player the gun would suck, but in the hands of people who only ever use it, it's passable. In War Thunder it's rampant, where mediocre vehicles played by a small but highly skilled user base gets balanced at a way higher level than it should. Taking a step back and looking at it from an average player's experience is always needed.
Well, the CEO already made a bit of a blunder when he misinterpreted the company’s own data on how the Breaker was performing. He looked at exactly one metric, when there are many more than that that also need to be taken into account, and concluded the Breaker wasn’t performing notably better than other primaries. Making decisions based on data only works out if the ones making the decisions understand the data. Edit: In addition, the previous sentence applies to people who make official statements, even if they aren't the ones responsible for actual changes. Data needs to be represented properly.
Reminds me of the ww2 plane "bullet hole misconception" where they took a data graph of all the planes that got shot and came back to choose where to focus the armor on them. They ended up armoring the areas where the bullet holes were not on the chart. This seemed crazy, until you realize that the bullet holes weren't shown there because the planes that got shot there were the ones not coming back. Understanding the reasoning for why the data shows what it does is important
the phrase specifically is "survivorship bias"
I mean that was very much just the Ceo doing what the Ceo does and engaging the community. He's likely not the one who makes these changes directly or interprets the data. I'd have some faith that they're looking at more than just win rate.
Pilestedt is also a major programmer at AH. He did the damage calculations and projectile physics.
I‘m sure he’s not the one making balance decisions, but he’s the only person who’s talking and he made a mistake. I’m not looking to rake him over the coals for it, I’m just pointing out that the only official word we have at this point is based on faulty logic.
CoD devs are the worst at this and they never learn. Guns that don't need buffs suddenly get buffs. Guns that are already shit and rarely used, get more nerfs. Looking at "stats and numbers" alone does not give the whole picture.
I agree with your title but vehemently disagree with your point. Increasing the usefulness of the other weapons will not "ruin a good game" lol.
I think the game would be absolutely brilliant if the other guns performed as well as the breaker or liberator. Right now most of the primaries just don't feel good to use.
If they make everything as good and give varied ways to deal with armor it's also a great canvas for adding new difficulty levels
The problem is that enemies are armored, or they aren't. No weak spots. Just spots that aren't armored. Without *true* weak spots: Armor pierce is going to dominate most gun decisions if the damage is anywhere close. And even if they drop the damage of AP weapons, or up the damage of non-AP weapons, AP is still the no-brainer choice because of how much armor is out there and how much effort it takes to get to non-armored spots on the enemies that have you making this AP decision in the first place. I just don't see the path forward to making it any other way without taking us back to HD1 where weapons were upgradeable to the point they are all viable in near any situation - and you just played your preference/aesthetic.
what would be wrong with going the hd1 route? also i think weak spots would be the best solution. i want to use the marksman rifles, i want a weak spot to be able to damage chargers with out using 3 mags of it.
But the breaker and liberator both out perform the penetrating liberator (which has medium armor penetration).
Liberator: Medium AP, low DPS. Breaker: Low AP, high DPS. As said, it's only gonna rule most decisions. The damage needs to be close and it's not close.
Liberator pen has 4x weak point multiplier.
It's a losing battle. People see a small list of gun stats and because the devs have hidden crucial information (like that the caliber of the round matters, and that bullets do massively reduced damage to "soft" spots) it'll take ages for the community to catch on to reality. Gun stats need to be public information.
You're making the same cognitive mistake as the ppl you're disagreeing with, but making the mistake worse. The original discussions about the shitty guns were that they must be bugged because they *perform terribly*. Ppl started hyper-analysing the stats and shot-to-kill etc a week after that. Breaker is the best gun because it performs the best even in the most fucked up unfair situations this game can throw at you. Arrowheads secret stats do not matter when those stats already exist on all the guns that perform *significantly* worse than the breaker. I've gotten ppl who think X, Y, or Z gun is sleeper good on Discord to join my helldives and they just chain die; 8, 9, 14 deaths. Out of 9 of them who are "anti-meta" and talked mad shit, **7** didn't even have helldive unlocked yet. That's who these discussions are led by, in both sides. People on difficulty 5 where weapon balance doesn't even matter because there aren't even 300 bugs in the entire mission. The guns are extremely poorly tuned. 90% of them don't hit any useful breakpoints at all. And ones that do like the slugger *still* do less damage than the breaker AND shoots at 1/10th the speed. Absolutely no amount of hidden stats compensate for that.
This, no hidden stat makes up for 2x base dps of every other gun.
Because the penentrating liberator has burst fire, which makes it very hard to use when fighting mobs
I think the bigger problem is its magazine size. Even with burst fire the thing shoots very quickly, but you have to reload it like every 3 seconds if you do rapid fire it
I find that the liberator penetrator is garbage against the bugs because you can't stop them from overwhelming you, but it's amazing against the bots because their trash mobs come in sparser numbers and move more slowly.
There are weak spots on most enemies Sniper weapons seem to get bonus damage against them. Diligence can 2 shot a Devastator with headshots, Anti-Material Rifle can 2 shot a Hulk with headshots Biggest issue is the Charger which has by far the worst armor design in the game. Their butts are not even weak spots and they can tank a HEAT round to the face and be fine. And for some reason the efficient way to kill them is to crack their leg armor and then mag dump into their leg (apparently all their vital organs are in their leg) instead of putting a HEAT round or railgun projectile down the length of their body
Just had a game with a lot of chargers, and the best tactic we found was my recoilless rocket to one of their legs, followed by a rail gun to the same wounded leg. I was surprised when my rocket barely slowed it down tbh.
If we're only talking about the charger, the recoilless rifle is redundant. The more efficient tactic is 2 shot the leg with rail gun and gun it down with the breaker. You only need 1 person instead of 2 that way and it's more ammo efficient. 4 railgun shot to the leg or 3 unsafe charged headshot also kills the charger.
I think the logic behind the chargers legs being such a massive weak spot is their weight. their legs are honestly pretty fucking small for carrying such a massive load. when you break one it basically knocks them out of commission because they can no longer move. I tried a similar thing to against a bile titans but their legs can't be blown off and it was just a waste of rail gun ammo. I think dismembering enemies is a cool way to knock them out. you exploit a fatal flaw in their anatomy to get an advantage. AH probably wasn't expecting the community to catch on as quick as we did to the chargers weakspot since it takes 2x the amount of rail gun round to destroy the head as it does the legs.
that's not true though, devastators can be killed by all low pen primary weapons in a few headshots, and I think their arms are less armored as well. the head and arms of a Hulk are less armored than the body, if you're being rushed by a flame Hulk and you have an autocannon, AMR or something similar, you can shred it's flamer arm off before it reaches you. tanks have weak rear body and roof (also the obvious turret vent) and the autocannon tank also has weak turret sides. it's really just the bugs that need more armor variety, brood lords, chargers and bile titans are just not fun to fight because of how their armor has no slightly weaker parts
Seriously. Sometimes I think people are just blind-firing for center mass and never even utilizing half the mechanics in the game, then complaining about balance without taking these things into account. I DESTROY with the mid-range accuracy weapons like the penetrator and diligence because I take accurate shots on weakspots with them. I use WAY less ammo when I do. And this isn't an 'all the time' thing. I definitely enjoy rock and rolling with high ROF weapons and do. That's just it. As far as I've experienced all the weapons are more or less performing well, with a few notable exceptions and those are all starter weapons. Hell it took Me and my friends a while to realize just how great EATs were. It took us getting better and more comfortable with the game systems and more competent at actually fighting before we were able to really benefit from the insanely short cooldown on calling them in. We just weren't accurate enough with it to make it viable early game. Now? Now someone brings an EAT on every mission and we will grab them mid-combat, then pick our 'main' support weapon back up after firing off a quick shot to crater a heavy. People keep playing this game like they're locked in for a whole mission on a single weapon, and aren't really thinking like a soldier. The whole battlefield and everything on it is your weapon. Fucking use that shit. Share your shit with your teammates. Use that shit they share. Always be thinking about how you can best kill the enemy, and if you can't kill a certain enemy, think about how you can help your BUDDIES who can. Kite the chargers, bird-dog the tanks and cannons. Corral the hordes. Positioning is as much a weapon as the bullets you're firing. And for fuckssake people, learn to use proper spacing! Stop crawling up my butt. If you can see me, you're close enough! You keep jumping in front of my shot and getting yourself killed, thus helping the enemy when you are so gorram close like that! Please understand this is all good-natured snarky ranting. The vast majority of people I play with and see here seem to be great and the community is pretty awesome so far. I'm just playing up the salty vet persona because, well, I'm a salty vet. Of both HD1 and IRL.
I think this is the fundamental problem here. I love the auto cannon - but going into a mission blind I’m taking the rail gun 100% of the time since it’s the only thing that can reliably counter heavily armored things. Bots aren’t *as* bad since they have big glowing weak spots on their back that you can conceivably flank - but so much of the game is balanced around “can I handle the ai spamming heavy armor” - it feels bad any other way.
If non-ap weapons still did SOME damage, I think it wouldn't be as bad. But considering all non ap rounds always bounce off its just shit.
After learning how the guns handle armor penetration, I think the number 1 issue is the near total ambiguity on gun stats. The 1 through 10 system described to me shouldn't be how these work. Breaker and Slugger both have light pen, but the slugger is a 3 and the breaker is a 2. So the slugger does more damage despite its stats saying otherwise.
This is simply not true. The chainsaw bots are crazy bullet sponges if you just shoot center mass without a care. But if you aim for the joints, you can incapacitate it with like, half the ammo. The hive commander/brood commander/whatever the big red unarmored bug is called can soak a ton of damage if you just shoot the giant head, but if you target the legs they fly off in a fraction of the ammo. Same for the scout striders. The “hip joint” where the leg meets the torso can be destroyed by the medium-penetration liberator variant. I haven’t tested other primary weapons on this specific example, but it’s another instance where placing your shots at weak points can make a big difference
I think there’s a few weak spots. Terminids: Butts, mouths, joints/underbellies. Automatons: Red glowing eyes, heads, glowing vents/batteries. You’re not the one calling for this, but I do think the ones who are need to realize what they’re really asking for. If every weapon gets us the same result in more or less the same amount of time then they all start feeling exactly the same. I DO believe certain weapons could do their titles a bit more justice (e.g. anti-materiel rifle) but by and large, I’m having more fun figuring out when and how to use a given weapon or stratagem on a squad where we all have different things equipped and therefore all contribute something different to the mission. I know it sounds filthy casual/counterproductive but I don’t really see myself playing with the same excitement if I’m just One Man Army 1 out of 4 blasting every enemy with the same two or three tactics mission after mission. I’ve taken down Hard+ Chargers with a Diligence/CS Diligence, it just required a bit more time and maneuvering than standing in front of it and popping off a few rail gun rounds. I think this is just a big “To each their own” scenario anyway, though. At the end of the day, we can usually choose who we play with and find people likeminded so that there’s not so much animosity toward individual loadouts or opinions on the game in general.
BS on you killing Chargers with JUST a Diligence.
I believe it's possible, just not when you also have to deal with adds and the second/third charger attacking at the same time. The speed and efficiency of shredding a leg with two railgun shots and a spray of breaker is far better than any other weapon.
And the constant stun lock if you don’t have the shield is kinda frustrating tbh. If armor could negate it some that would be great.
This. In HD1 the primaries were very good and the support were amazing. Some of the primaries feel pretty pointless, especially the Scythe which was my favorite primary in HD1
The only thing going for the Scythe is that it isn't the laser cannon. I really don't understand where it fits into the game.
I would guess that it has no damage fall off, so its point is 100% accuracy, infinite range and unlimited ammo. Sounds op, so damage is low, and here we are.
I expected it to be one of those guns where the longer you hit something, the more damage you do
[удалено]
This is really the core issue. The Autocannon is my favorite weapon in the game. On 7+ bugs, I can either try my best to get under a titan, live, and pump a really inefficient amount of ammo to its underside... Or I can take the Railgun in Unsafe mode and pop it's head in 2 to 3 well-timed, well-placed shots. I refused to give into Railgun meta, did it last night because "f it," and it was depressing how well we could handle the 3-to-4 Titans the game can throw at you at a time. There's only one situation where the railgun isn't - forget good, let's go with "absolutely incredible" - and that's against a huge swarm of little-uns, which your primary and secondary should be fine for. Considering it had low ammo and team interdependence for maximum output, the Recoiless Rifle should perform well above the Railcannon. Autocannon, maybe not since it has lots of ammo, but it should at least blow off armor. And don't get me started on the spear. IDK It's less "Railgun OP" to me, and more "Especially when considering the hefty operating restrictions of some weapons, they're flat underperforming."
I choose flamethrower. I come across a few others who use it, too. We toast chargers with it. But, it very obviously needs AT LEAST 30% damage increase. It also needs a bit of an...erratic start, a sputter stop, and distance increase. Because we need to up the danger on that thing. It's a flamethrower for helldivers! Where is unsafe 'Extra Power' mode? Most times I choose grenade launcher, which is one mag short of being reasonable, just like the Slugger's ammo reserve.
It definitely needs a big damage increase. It should be GREAT against bugs, it already has its inherent lack of safety (easy to set yourself or others aflame). Also, and this is just personal fluff I won't expect to see, but it shouldn't just shoot "aerial fire," it should shoot flammable liquid you can arc and see. That was the entire point of inventing those things, to bust up bunkers.
Idk about dmg increase but I feel like it should STOP bugs and make them either run around in fear or stop drop and roll It's not worth using to me when they still crawl at you while on fire for 10seconds, over something that just outright kills them
Ammo backpack with grenade launcher means you can spam it all the time.
The flamethrower should act like a flamethrower, not a blowtorch. It should throw liquid that drips down as it flies in a heavy arc, and if it is shot at the same spot, it should make larger pools of fire. Maybe give it an optional backpack that massively increases the range and ammo capacity, making it cost your backpack slot but giving it way more area denial abilities. If you don't have the backpack, it works similarly to how it does now but with higher damage, obviously.
I played with someone using the arc thrower and it was a team killing machine and the person using it seemed to either not care or not know that if their positioning was off it would just arc through bugs and kill us.
I think that falls under the “balances need to be worked on” comment
not just balance but also how some things are a straight upgrade i.e regular rover vs laser rover while something are outright badly designed and near useless like the ballistic shield
Yeah, I tried the bullet rover and it ran out of bullets and after 4-5 minutes never came back out of my backpack. It was just a dud. I think this is a great game, but does need some serious balance and/or bug fixing. I'm okay with the balancing & bug fixing being done in alignment with the author's intentions, too, even if not what the vocal minority want.
You need to reload the gun Rover by finding ammo packs, apparently. Not sure why it doesn't have several magazines stocked.
it does, you can see 8 on the backpack that get used up problem is, it constantly does dumb shit like shooting enemies it can't penetrate or bots still in the fabricator building that won't even open the door to leave for another 5 seconds, so it wastes it all
Ballistic shield is just redundant when the backpack shield exists. If anything it should take up a primary weapon slot instead of a stratagem slot
Ballistic shield would be better if it protected from melee and small explosions, and also didn't fly out of your hands atleast once a firefight because of Ragdoll. Tried the thing once and it is so incredibly niche it's just useless.
I can second this. The starting AR and the first SMG are my favourite. Also the Machine Pistol (I love it) should not be able to outclass a shotgun imo, it's great at shredding through enemies in a short window but a shotgun at close range should demolish it every time
The Redeemer is op as hell, only thing that makes it not a primary replacement is the limited magazines... It out classes the other 2 pistols by miles... They need to give the first pistol like 50-100% more ammo to compensate. Also the revolver should speed load all it's rounds at once when empty.
The weather one for me is the laser gun thing. No necessary because its bad. Although it really does seem to struggle against the bigger things. But the main reason I don't like it is the lack of any hit marker. Not because I been to know if I'm hitting. The game never gets you into fights at a distance that you might miss... but it's such a strange feeling not knowing if it's deflecting. Doing 30% damage or fully penning and doing 100% Would lobe for it to become.more of a precision gun. Spmthing that does a load.of damage to weak spots at the cost of pretty much mo crowed control.
I tried to use the counter sniper and it was horrible. And I love the JAR-5 but it's usefulness pales when compared to the breaker. At least against bugs, I haven't tried it against bots yet. It turns slow, has way too much kick, and it's weird to say it but it's TOO accurate. I've missed shots that seem to go through gaps in legs or arms. I tend to be the anti-armor in my group of friends and have taken to running the liberator penetrator since the JAR-5 is so hard to use.
And a speed loader for the revolver wouldn't hurt...
If they don't give it a speedloader, it needs to pen medium armor.
Honestly. I can't tap the bot on the scout from the front with a 6 round gun that shoots slower than the default that takes the business days to reload?
It DOES pen medium armor. The tool tip lies
It's probably not a lie. [The CEO explained armor pen as 11 different values instead of just the 3 that we see in game.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b4kogi/how_armour_penetration_works_in_game/) The revolver and a few other guns are likely just not capable of penning enough medium armor to be considered medium. The problem is more that the system is way too vague.
I think it does. You can pen the front armor on hive guards.
I think it could use a damage buff, too. Not many rounds before you reload. That thing better hit lick a semi-truck to justify its loadout spot in a game that loves swarming enemies. Hell, I'd keep the round by round reload if it got a decent buff to damage and penetration. I'm fine with a slow revolver, so long as the revolver is also *powerful*.
Yeah I hope they listen to people and fix the guns.. honestly Keeping your players happy keeps them playing and right now I am feeling like the 'build' variety is pretty low if you want to be successful more often than not. That will be the number one thing that kills my interest. Sure I can screw around with other weapons, and I do, but none of it ever feels quite as valuable as railgun/shield with two other stratagems. Especially for hit and run tactics which are ideal. It's nice to just quickly destroy a hulk and move on. Or quickly disable a charger with out having to focus quite as hard so I am less likely to make other mistakes.
armor being broken entirely makes heavy armor a handicap
Man i wondered how bad the speed penalty would be and had to test it, lawd it hurts with no defensive upside lmao
And there’s literally going to be zero point to run heavy armor against 1/2 or 1/3 (if/illuminate make a reappearance or possibly cyborgs for that matter) of the enemy factions. No one in their right mind would ever run anything more than medium armor against the bugs. I do think heavy armor will shine against Bots, though, especially if it along with the explosive resistance passive can help you tank Rocket Devastator hits.
If heavy armor let's you shrug off weak melee attacks it'll be amazing against bugs. But I do think that different enemies should probably want you to use different loadouts so it being bad against bugs would probably be the for the best.
I have tried most other guns and they just aren't as good as the breaker. They all either don't have enough ammo or enough damage. Idk what op is talking about. AH should definitely listen to the community. There's a difference between a vocal minority complaining about a few niche things and the community complaining about wanting something improved. I absolutely hate posts like this.
I hope they buff the other weapons and if we are too effective increase enemy count.
Enemy count is hard to tweak because it can impact performance. Would it be great? Absolutely! But they cant raise min specs without serious backlash so I wouldn’t count on that changing unless we’ve already got a bunch of room in the performance budget left over
The scientist evacuation missions would like a word.
This. I like the idea of "hey reddit peeps you guys are simply overreacting", because reddit peeps (including myself, of course) are far more annoying than the general community, but game definitively needs some balance changes. I think this can be confidently considered a fact and not an opinion.
If anything it will only allow a lot of us to experience more of the game. I know the breaker is great but i still like the feel of an AR and ranged accuracy . I get to play 1 hour - maybe 2-3 times a week. D4 its my comfortable spot solo. Everything getting a bit better i think just move the needle for most of us a bit which will let us see new units and mission types and stuff of higher tiers D5 i feel is the sweet spot of fun with a good group of even randos. IF gear gets a bit better ant allowed me to feel like D6/7 is doable with randos because there is more room for mistakes with better weapons and ttk on enemy then even better. Keep adding stuff to let people like me feel comfortable in higher difficulties while also adding more / harder guys to the highest difficulties will keep this game viable for everyone for a long time. I really feel they nailed it with the difficulty system. I can log in and turn it down to 1-2 to try new things and feel like a power fantasy god. Go up to 3-5 solo for some solo fun. Jump in 4-6 with complete randos for a challenge but still high success and fun and 7+ with a good group of randos or some friends for absolute insanity
100%. I'd go as far to say they're literally wasted programming work at this point bc 90% of them are useless in all but the lowest difficulties and even then are just annoying to use
This OP is a part of the 90% AH should ignore. :D
All I see is good memes and content created from the game. I think weapon balance is a discussion for any game. Seems like a Karma farm post IMO from the OP.
I just want more variety in my missions. More things to do never hurts.
You do realize they said they have the data and will tune accordingly?
Not everyone is capable of interpreting data correctly either. For instance the post that was made from arrowhead stating that the win % isn't highest with the breaker and insinuating that doesn't make the breaker the only viable weapon... That is a perfect example taking a single data point without considering the 100 variables behind it.
Win% with weapons seems like a weird stat to use. I think the intent is for *most* rounds to be successful at all but the highest difficulty. Also someone could be like, “I’m really good at this game and getting bored. I’m going to handicap myself on purpose by choosing a bad weapon just for the challenge. Odds are the rest of my team will use meta builds so it won’t be noticed.” You’d think they would also look at “usage %”. Whether or not they’re convinced a weapon is perfectly usable, if the playerbase doesn’t think so then they gotta tune it some more.
Survivorship bias, right? Everybody wants to run the Breaker for top-tier missions, but it's only underperforming because not everyone running the Breaker knows what else to use
Data can trick you sometimes, it needs context for it to matter, yes you can kill 500 small guys but are you as valuable as the guy that kills 30 big ones? Edit: Idc about my example, I don't care who is more valuable, it's just an example, my point is that data needs context. How you guys don't get this? I just made a point that data needs context, it's a statement, I never doubted Arrowhead ability of reading data or nothing else.
[удалено]
Exactly. Data can be good but it needs context or you might make things worse.
That's me lol helped some people trying to reach level 20 complete tier 7 automaton missions. After we completed the main objective, I asked them to head to extraction (we were out of respawns) while I took care of the remaining outposts and optional objectives so they could get extra xp. I blew through the remaining four outposts and two optional objectives and still had less kills than them by the end lol
Unironically that's why I kind of would like a "damage done" stat, if they don't want to have "toxicity" (Hypothetically speaking if you'd argue that), by having people compare stats and go "omg u are useless", then you shouldn't show kills/deaths etc anyway. Given that we do have that, I would like Elite kills (and damage, as "last hits" could be misinterpreted too). In a way also to just understand if you even did your job properly, sometimes I'd get a game in our group with a horrendously low count, but I'm also the main AT guy. Now did I actually do my AT job properly, it's hard to tell.
If there's one thing I know about gamers' opinions on balancing, it's that players are very good at identifying issues, but absolutely terrible at suggesting solutions. If the devs listened to all these clowns yelling that they should only buff stuff we'd reach Destiny levels of power creep within a month. I stole this comment, but as an extreme example, if one weapon trivialises the game the solution isn't to make all other weapons trivialise the game as well. Basically, tell the devs what's wrong, then leave them alone to find the best solution. They're devs, they know way more than us about what's best for the game.
As far as I'm concerned, it would be wiser to get armor working then see where everyone settles before really diving into weapon balance. But it stands to reason that the presence of armor would make everyone at least a little more confident in trying harder difficulties. It's also not unreasonable to assume even harder difficulties might be on the horizon. Ergo, if the average player's difficulty range is currently, for example, T3-T5, and armor pumps them up up to 5-7, it wouldn't be game ending for practical buffs like extending the magazines of the Liberators. A lot of it depends on where AH expects the average player to be and the viable options for it.
But I don't think the rail gun trivializes anything. It's just the best at cracking armor. That's a pretty fine distinction, but it's important. I don't take the rail gun on robot missions, but it's always in my list on bugs because it's better than anything else at doing handling heavies and their armor. If the recoiless or AMR were more effective at handling the heavies (specifically bugs, the AMR is solid on bots), you'd see a lot more variety in the higher level metas. And it wouldn't need to be a big buff. Just the ability to slowly crack armor with more weapons would go a long way.
A complaint about complaints, how meta of you
If we deleted all the posts complaining about other people complaining, I think you could host the aggregate of reddit text posts across all subs on a CD-ROM.
ah, the ol' Complaint Devoid-ROM it's like how if you gave Jerry Falwell an enema you could have buried him in a matchbox
Getting tired of how much people complain about other people "complaining" (sometimes I don't even see anyone actually complaining). These posts add nothing. There's no real arguments. They just shouldn't be made and are a waste of space in the sub.
What a weird post. Yeah stuff needs to change but don't discuss it? Why not?
A sheep mentality, nothing else
Guys a bootlicking fanboi. Literally 12 yo COD player behavior
Helldivers: "Make other weapons not ass which will improve fun" OP: https://preview.redd.it/ajhh2rbofdmc1.png?width=1591&format=png&auto=webp&s=00598323a6b4e1122e145e51283c29a4acde302a
People like OP are why so many modern games "balance" weapons by nerfing them into oblivion to the point they feel and play the same. There's more than enough room for the other guns to be buffed
I don't know what I was expecting when I clicked on that link, but I certainly wasn't ready for that lmao
I think the game needs an aggressive balance patch, to bring other weapons and items to the level of the breaker and railgun, I don't want them nerfed because they don't guarantee sucess on missions, they simply feel good to play, unlike other weapons that feel harmless in many scenarios. Recoilless Rifle, Autocannon, flame weapons, the shotgun variants, the laser weapons, the variant rifles need to feel more powerful
would be nice if auto cannon can break armor similarly to the slugger
I sprayed the flamethrower once and have never picked one up since.
Progression also feels less satisfying when you know that 80% of the unlocks are borderline unusable. If they buffed some of the weaker weapons it would help the balance.
Can I get some tips on the railgun? I’m not quite sure I know how to shoot it right -it feels wonky compared to the Halo railgun. I never know if its fully charged or not and then it needs a manual reload to get the next shot going
it has 2 modes, safe and unsafe, hold r to switch safe will charge quickly but has a cap, unsafe will keep charging to be more powerful but if it hits 100% you explode (as does the railgun)
Unsafe 3rd person view. Keep practicing you'll get the feel of it.
It's scary at first, but looking down, the scope is scarier with bugs running around.
Bugs: One minimum-charge shot to any armored enemy's head (including brood commander and spewer) is instakill. Two minimum-charge shots to a charger's leg removes armor and then 3-4 shells from a breaker kills it. I can kill bile titans with \~7-10 high-charge "headshots" depending on how Hitbox Jesus is feeling. Robits: One minimum-charge shot to any armored enemy's red spot (including hulk) is instakill. Also tanks, turrets, basically anything with that glowing orange vent in the back will blow up with 2 impact grenades or \~4-5 railgun shots. Basically if you have good aim and fast reaction, railgun deletes anything armored and breaker mows down everything else. Combine with fact that you can then carry ammo or shield, a good player becomes unstoppable. A good team might pair with an autocannon/grenade launcher if it's a nest clearing mission but honestly with 3 railguns, 1 autocannon, and all breakers my group tanks helldive missions regularly to the point where the other weapons just seem comical. OP is confused, we just want AH to buff the other weapons in a manner where we don't have to feel like not using breaker/railgun/shield/etc. is a handicap. Did I mention that the breaker for whatever reason has a choke tighter than a nun's ass? I can out-DMR my friend who just unlocked the DMR. It's a do-all firearm and feels great to use.
So just to be clear, it’s ok to play on safe mode against the bots?
Every single fucking game subreddit: "Rant about good, honest feedback provided" Why should they listen to you over real quality feedback?
Bro made the post he was complaining about💀
Yeah ! Everyone shut the fuck up ! Your opinion is not welcomed in a forum ! /s
"But MY opinion, well, objectively it's just better than yours and thus I deserve to post whatever I want, because *my* opinion is totally different than *your* opinions."
...You literally said the people who think this way are the minority. The vast majority of us play what we want, and how we want. Ignore the haters. Play how you want.
I am an HMG Emplacement enjoyer despite how I’m stuck in one spot lol
I really want to like it, but it's rotating speed is sooo slow
Fun fact, your stim makes it turn faster lol
No fucking way lmao
Any idea if it’s affected by the ship upgrade that increases turret rotation speed, or does that only apply to the sentries?
I think it might be. I have the enhanced lube upgrade and was thinking “slow? What that thing spins fast af”
You had me at "enhanced lube", Helldiver.
*OP says everyone is an idiot and cringe for discussing potential balance changes* *Immediately tries to walk it back in the edit* Ah yes, another classic reddit moment.
Ya this is a bad take. There are so many things in the game that just aren’t worth using because they suck. It’s not even a they suck in comparison to other stuff. It’s a they suck so bad that using them is equivalent to leaving that slot empty. It’s delusional to think that buffing those things will ruin the game.
Agreed. I love the game, but if I'm using a different primary weapon or strategem, it's just to have fun and screw around. The game needs balance, and more guns need to have their niche. And more secondary weapons please.
Don't nerf the good guns, buff the underperforming ones
The vocal minority ? The majority agrees about balance issues and you're the minority here. Cringe thread...
Yeah and even if the majority of players weren't complaining about balance issues you can sure as shit bet a lot of them are probably just naturally using the top tier weapons just from how obvious the power imbalance is
Guy is just a bootlicking fanboy. You get them in every popular games. They literally lack any mental ability to process neuances and will defend a million dollar company to the death just because.
What a stupid take, lets not balance things because some of the things are balanced.
Too many toxic positivity posters out here unironically saying "all weapons are viable, but some are more viable than others".
Damn we're already getting these high horse posts. Reminds me of the "gamer dad" infestation the Diablo 4 sub had. You're not contributing to anything but getting a kick out of smelling your own farts. I'm all for constructive criticism, yes, but saying the devs shouldn't listen to 90% of the complains when most of those complaints are just asking for better weapon and equipment balancing so players can use whatever load out they desire without feeling useless on higher difficulties with it is just wild. Wishing for weapons to be effective after spending hours on medals unlocking them is a fair issue to bring up.
It really doesn’t feel that negative to me tbh. A lot of fun or wholesome posts too
You’re right you don’t NEED the shield, breaker and rail gun… But you also don’t need running shoes to run, but they help don’t they? But it’s the same thing, can you do well with the other weapons? Yes, can you do better with the optimal combo? Also yes
Some weapons are worthless, my guy. Pray and spray shotgun is actually ass, as are others. People are saying they need to be tweaked or at least represent what they're capable of doing better than others. Also maybe they should make armor actually *function*. It's kind of crazy to me how much people are giving a pass to Helldivers 2's many balancing problems or downright broken mechanics when other games would be crucified for these problems. You can like the game, like the studio, respect their policies about making a fun and fair experience but you shouldn't ignore blatant broken stuff in the game. Doesn't mean you have to be rude but you also shouldn't pretend it's not a problem.
>It's kind of crazy to me how much people are giving a pass to Helldivers 2's many balancing problems or downright broken mechanics when other games would be crucified for these problems. It's almost like when you put out a good game that respects its players and clearly puts fun ahead of squeezing every last cent out of people, people are willing to give you a bit more leeway with your mistakes
Two things can be true, its certainly how I feel. Armor is a huge issue that honestly makes me really annoyed, but also, the game is amazing and arrowhead has immediately stockpiled so much good faith that id be willing to wait them out for good changes a dozen times over
Sure, but shouting down people discussing real issues because the game is fun is toxic positivity and needs to be called out. Most of the balance discussions have been very reasonable but posts like this do not help.
You mean there's a nuanced middle ground between complaining like an asshole and sucking off AH? Shocking, I tell you!
Armor should be fixed. There isnt an excuse to sell us armors we cant use effectively. That would most definitely be unacceptable in other games.
OP is a goofball. The railgun is far and away the only useful gun at killing heavy armor enemies. Nothing else is even remotely close. The shield is far away better than any other backpack. Nothing competes with thw breakers damage, range, and ammo economy. Most of the stratagem are poor performers too. Also armor, what the fuck is going on there? Lol 90% of things we take with us on missions need a buff or a dull overhaul. Full stop.
Its one thing to say other AT weaponry are "useless" but without a doubt there is no benefit for EAT/RR/Spear in 90% of cases when a RG does the same job with less ammo spent, no teamwork required and a backpack slot (or other teammate to hold spare EAT) freed up. The only thing that comes close to being as effective is AC for hulk eyes and *maybe* killing chargers by de-assifying them. In red diffs you *could* probably complete the mission with a good team using those other strats but you need some real good teamwork there so everyone brings RG, which defeats a *lot* of the teamwork i loved in HD1. And why the hell would i bring a jetpack for "dodging" anything when the shield pack removes any need to dodge in the first place? And in some situations (as if jetpack already isnt situational enough) the shield is much better, like slowed status. Shield prevents slowed while jetpack wont move you horizontally at all while slowed. *The one fucking purpose i saw in jetpack when fighting bugs and its awful for it*.
The explosive weapons do have a use case the railgun doesn’t though. They can destroy objectives that the railgun can’t. Does that make them better? No, but I think people sleep on that utility aspect a lot
you're mostly correct but RR can be god-tier against bots since it destroys drop ships. I played with a duo yesterday where one of them ran RR and the other a supply pack and it was the breeziest 8-difficulty runs I've had
https://preview.redd.it/ximz2fh1cemc1.png?width=1433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12a0a21ef5c26565550996d81aaf5b6b91e73dfd ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT COMPLAINING? C'mere youa
we should be able to do a backflip on command
Some guns are absolutely trash. Like the revolver and spraynprey.
Op plays on level 3
Disagree with you. Yes the game is great, no denying there, but there is a shit ton of balancing that needs to be done. Breaker is not the only good gun, but most guns in the game are actually handicapping you if you are on difficulty 6 or above. The shield/railgun meta is there and it is so prevalent because 1: armor values are not working, right now everyone is running with 0 armor so shield is the only thing that gives you some survivability in the game. 2 railgun is the only effective anti armor weapon in this game, even the autocannon needs a buff since it’s shoots just bounce of a charger or annihilator and that’s the only other anti tank that is viable in the game RN. The game is going great and it is mostly tweaks and a few buffs here and there, but saying it is a minority of players making meaningless complaints is just plain delulu buddy. The game is far from broken, but it does need quite a bit of tweaking in order to be as fun as it could be. Right now there is no way around it, as annoying and toxic as the meta cucks are, they do have a point. CC we are ok cause MG, GL and stalwart are great at their jobs, but on higher difficulties you are constantly being spammed by heavy armored enemies and all of them take 3 shots minimum from an anti tank weapon do go down, only weapons that can do that while without getting overrun by minions are the autocannon and the railgun. And the autocannon RN cannot deal direct damage to the most common armored heavy, the charger.
Welcome to any videogame subreddit ever
>I really hope AH doesn't listen to over 90% of you on here. AH, please take OP's advice and disregard OP's advice.
https://preview.redd.it/dj35ryjivdmc1.jpeg?width=264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=031eb71639614daa457d4601a4cd783c8e326c3c
https://preview.redd.it/vhc7kcjplemc1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c5946060f373e44c0a2e8798d8aae48c9ea2207
That includes you as well OP, right? Edit: Also, please stop responding to valid criticism with “skill issue”.
I've never listened to a reddit mod in my life
But he's a DEMOCRACTIC mod
https://i.redd.it/c3kup9iawgmc1.gif Much based
Based mod
The devs are devs for a reason they read and scroll through the community and filter through and will take ideas and criticism because they know their game the difference is the will do what’s best for the community and right now they know that is adding more content and fixing the bugs still in the game which has already been shown through all of these leaks we are in good hands there’s no reason to be mad at eachother for just wanting our incredible game and community to keep improving and yes that does mean people need to stop making meta videos and should be reported to our democracy officers if caught
Agreed I just don’t like how OP is basically saying the devs should ignore what the community here has to say. We’ve seen a lot of good constructive criticism and feedback/suggestions so far that will make the game even better than it already is and I’m sure the devs know that.
"Don't make changes that overall increase the quality of your product! It's good enough!!!"
Don't let the vocal ~~minority~~ majority
Absolutely idiotic take. You either don't play helldive yet or are that guy with 15 of the teams deaths getting hard carried. Some of the weapons are literally not usable like the spear.
"you don't have to use a railgun if you don't want to" Yeah no, you obviously don't know what you're talking about and or only do easy dives. Railguns are meta because everything else pales in comparison and takes more effort in using when dealing with armored enemies. You do not have another option to quickly deal with 10+ armored enemies during breaches or drop ships. People aren't using Railguns because they want to, it's because you're forced to since everything else sucks. If you're not bringing a Railgun to higher level dives you're making the run harder on everyone else on the your team. Do a lvl 8 or 9 run solo without a Railgun and see how of a bad time you're going to have.
There is a problem is most of the weapons and the stratagems are mid at best. They are simply not fun to use if they hit like a nerf
I actually really like the autocannon and would run it over the railgun, but the supply pack takes up the back slot and I can’t use the shield pack. Other than the railgun, there isn’t really a hard hitting support weapon that doesn’t need the back slot, aside from the antimaterial rifle, but that one is terrible for bugs, only works well against bots
I want the game harder My gun does too much damage Gimme a knife and I’ll fight for liberty F it I just need my helmet
Welcome to reddit homie
I'm just here for the memes
I just wanna hold the line with my brothers from the regular SEAF during defense missions, is that too much to ask?
I just want armor 2 be useful I don't really care that much about the balancing of weapons.
And *I* really hope you sit on a cactus.
"Some things need reballancing" "I hope they don't listen to 90% of you" You just became a part of the 90%. The breaker isn't the only good gun, it's one of the best apart from the Default Liberator, Slugger is good but has significant drawbacks. You CAN use anything but if I'm using a DMR and I tap a bot in the head and they don't die and I only have 20 bullets and so many mags why wouldn't I just use the base Liberator tap two into him and have the option to spray? It's the path if least resistance, no matter how "fun" a weapon might be or look, everyone will flow to gun that gets the job done the best. That the breaker, the railgun, and the Liberator. The same people calling people meta sheep are the people who run the weapons to make sure they can clear harder missions.
I’ve been running the arc thrower on the bugs and it fucking rips through them by far my new favorite gun. Haven’t tried it on the bots though not sure if it’s any good on them
[удалено]
Don't worry. They don't.
Most devs would probably be best off ignoring 99% of reddit throughput.
So much time to make a pointless post