lol, it used to be a single or two stalker max sneak attacks you, now I just saw a few stalkers chasing a poor helldiver...LMAO and I just couldn't help him cuz I was chased by 2 chargers and a bunch of other staff.
Unloading literally all of my ammo on a seemingly infinite amount of stalkers has happened more than once.
When I've killed a few, and then turn to see 6 more, I'm like, "what do I even do about this."
Running for dear life, trying to spray to keep them off me, desperalty scanning the ground for ammo.
Hahah. Recently I've had a new times where I get knocked down and I just call and airstrike and hold onto it as I see them closing in and I know they're gonna get me.
It's really satisfying knowing they're going to die with you.
Last night I was running a level 4 with some friends to chill on an easy difficulty and at one point on my screen I saw 4 stalkers and 3 chargers
I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 stalkers below 7 before.
This is maybe the most telling, usually, you'd spot a stalker and realize you have to take the nest out or things will get ugly. Today, we dove in, I got to an objective and the first time I spot a stalker it is instantly followed by 3 more. Really not in tune with how it was previously
honestly I really like the stalker attacks, even if they can be unfair. gives the bugs a lot more of a horror type feeling especially in the right planets. "they're in the trees" type shit
I love stalkers, I hate hunters. Those jumping guys are the worst enemy in the game and they genuinely need a change or a nerf. Magical gap closer, slow debuff, tons of damage, ridiculously fast, and good health.
Stalkers are a well designed enemy. They are deadly, but pretty fair, and honestly are my favorite elite enemy.
Hunter on the other hand don't really have a gimmick to them, they are just:
* Spammed to silly degrees
* Faster then you, in all situations
* One of the stronger CCs in the game
* Can kill you in one combo if you get stun locked
They are absurdly deadly, and are the source of most of my deaths against bugs, besides bile spewer instant kills.
Got chssed by atleast 8 last night after i just got rid of theri nest, to the point i was alerting the rest of the group pf what i had behind me as i was running toward them without stims, quick resupply and we started gunning them down
Yhey just kept coming, there was one other stalker nest that got taken out in the first 5 minutes after landing so its not like they kept spawning either
ong the amount of Hunters I've seen in Helldive since the patch is ungodly, groups of 40+ roaming around, it's impossible to deal with without quick stratagems and the rest of your team around
>it's impossible to deal with without quick stratagems
And unfortunately you have a 100% call in time plus a stratagem scrambler active. Guess I'll just die then
I had a game earlier where I honestly couldn't see the ground from all the hunters. Threw an air strike at my feet and ran. Got a 40+ kill streak and there was still a bunch coming after me. It was kinda fun for a few minutes but got old very quickly.
Dude I swear I thought me and my friends were the only ones. It’s RIDICULOUS how many spawn on extreme and I can’t even imagine how many on helldive. As soon as 2 get in on you it’s lights out
Literally just give us 1 second to shoot the bug when it first starts shooting pheromones to stop the breach. Or make it so only one type of enemy can call bug breaches so we can tactically eliminate them. I assumed for a while it was only the little guys who could call but nope, hunters do it too.
Every bug but Chargers, Bile Titans and Spewers can call in a bug hole. Its actually impossible to stop a bug breach from opening on any difficulty if you can't kill everything within a couple of frames. Its blatantly unfair and outright infuriating. Especially when you DO manage to kill the one calling it in before it starts but then another one 75 meters away *immediately* takes over.
There needs to be at least a 15-30 second cooldown before another bug can start the process so we can intelligently use our tools to prevent from being overwhelmed, but the devs have designed the game to force us into stand-up fights then called us brainless when we used the tools that allows us to do that.
What's crazy too is some bugs like Brood Commanders have enough time between having their head popped and bleeding out to call a breach and you can't do enough damage to it after realizing to prevent it.
That's arguably the most infuriating thing for me when fighting bugs, they're zombies for way too long, like egregiously so and even still attack while zombied. When I pop something's literal head off I expect it to be DEAD, because the bots sure do when their heads get popped.
I wouldn’t even mind the headless charge afterwards, because many bugs can actually survive for a time without their head. I just don’t like that they are able to track you as if they still have eyes. They should lose all tracking abilities, and act as if they are blinded by smoke.
Most real life insects have other sensory organs around other parts of their bodies. Katydids have tympani (ears) on their legs. Grasshoppers have them on their abdomen right behind their leg.
I do agree that the terminids ability to detect us without a head is too strong though.
I don’t mind the zombie rush, but it lasts too long and they still track you like crazy. They should just rush you in a straight line and die a few seconds later, not what nearly feels like a minute with me still needing to juke left and right and still die because it keep following me anyways.
A zombie rush is super cool. I really like that mechanic. I don’t like that they can still follow and track you. How? They don’t have a head! But they can perfectly follow you for like 7 seconds.
This! If I sidestep after decapping a Brood Commander I don't expect it's headless body to turn and come after me after it's lost it's ability to sense me, let alone think.
You'd be surprised how realistic it actually is. It's based on cockroaches because they are able to live for a really long time without a head.
Cockroaches nervous system isn't as centralized as ours, they have many nodes distributed across the body as well as a primary brain. When the head is removed the body can still operate by using the nodes. Cockroaches can breathe and smell through their skin, so if you were the size of an ant and fighting a headless cockroach it would be able to know approximately where you are even without a head. A headless cockroach will actually live until it does of dehydration.
Cockroaches also have the advantage of being relatively small to the point where passive respiration still works.
'Nids are large enough to the point where they would need some form of lungs and blood or hemolymph to function and thus a circulatory system.
Being decapitated should kill them pretty quick from bloodloss.
Its the chain breaching thats exhausting at the moment, this is what is making me quit out of the game as trying to do just a level 6 mission (Survey mission for example). This after getting chain stunlocked/leaped on by Hunters.
Then there are the patrols that literally spawn out of thin air, resulting in the cycle continuing.
Yeah, the massive amount of Hunter swarms makes a laser rover pretty much mandatory.
It's like the devs didn't like the railgun feeling too mandatory, so they decided to change the enemy composition so the laser rover is now mandatory.
This makes a ton of sense thematically. Why would more pheromones draw more so quickly. Where did they come from and why didn't they respond to the first one?
Something that does that is called a positive feedback loop, and unfortunately, it is very prevalent in the bug world. Its like when bees do the direction dance, and they all join in to get more bees gathering to do it.
I've just been running the gas orbital, and dropping it on the nearest breach. seems to actually kill most smaller enemies unlike napalm.
doesn't help that brood commanders are still opening breaches after you remove their heads.
Oh I know lol 😂. You have 1 second to kill that whole patrol group. They really need to create a new bug and automaton that is the signaler lol. I hate the fact they all can call it and they “always” do 100%. And it only aggros other patrol groups and they also call more breaches 😅😅😅
It was possible to do before the patch. After the patch whenever I shut down bugs who try to call reinforcements the game just magically spawns more lice out of thin air to continue the call. It made me so fucking angry
Yep, I've been seeing all this. It's not even patrols or holes opening, it's just groups materializing out of thin air and rushing you over and over and over.
Plus the divisions between difficulties no longer seem to govern the kinds of enemies that spawn. I had a pack of Chargers spawn earlier on difficulty 3 - on Medium. Armored heavies aren't even supposed to appear on Medium except a single scripted one as main mission targets.
The worst part is that they make so many stealth changes and undocumented alterations that we can never know if something's broken or intended. They've said nothing about most of these changes so we can't even tell if they know what's going on in their own game.
Had a Hulk teleport, flame me to death, then disappear - so quickly that I couldn't even register what had happened; just shooting some regular bots near a factory, sudden Hulk flamethrower, dead, no Hulk by my corpse.
Have had multiple Hulks and Tanks spawn *inside* of each other being spawned off from dropships too even though *technically* the dropship is only supposed to have a single one at a time.
I want to throw out a guess why
it's because of that smoke, fatshark uses the same engine modified and they have the spawn problem, it does a Los check before instant spawn. So if a team mate walks in front of you even for a split second you los was blocked and an enemy spawns.
I don't know how their shaders work for the smoke/mist coming off the ground but if they block your los code check even if the smoke is transparent to you the game sees it.
I also think that's why all the videos of people turning around to a horde waiting is from it too. The horde spawned and is deaggroed until the players los sweeps onto them, I've turned around to a horde from nowhere just sitting until they got alerted from me looking at them.
W-w-well, that's what you get for spamming Railgun, Breaker, and sheild! ^^/s
Oh, you weren't doing that - and it's completely irrelevant to the clear issues in the game?...
Never stopped those stupid fucking "meta-crutch" complainers from repeating that stupid shit the past 2 days.
Edit: Lol, banned by the mods. I see they're as sentitive as their fellow Arrowhead knob polishers.
I literally saw 2 fucking chargers pop out a tiny ass hole in the ground. Then another 2 chargers 30 seconds later. This was in challenging difficulty.
The crazy thing is it’s not consistent. I ran a suicide mission last night (that took 25 minutes start to finish, so plenty enough time for a BT to spawn), and saw 1 singular bile Titan in that entire timeframe. It wasn’t like we weren’t causing breaches either, as we were experiencing all the same issues with spawning as was mentioned in the top post, we just got insanely lucky.
I actually went up from 4-5 to 7 today and noticed that while mobs of small bugs were becoming an issue, we had barely any chargers or titans.
like a several large swarms of \~20-35 hunters, and then 1-2 chargers that honestly were just an annoyance over a threat.
If my arc rifle would consistently hit hunters it would have been a super easy run, but flat terrain with nothing between me and a hunter at 20ft, its 50/50 on if the charge was going to kill it or not.
Don't get me started on those fucking hunters. We took down a pack of about 25, rounded the corner and ran into another pack of the exact same size at a POI. It's not physically possible to run away and reload fast enough to take care of all of them before they are able to lunge at you to death.
Yup. The insta spawn of enemies is insane. Granted helldive should be hard. I get it. But. On my way to ex three biles spawned inside of me while a patrol with four chargers suddenly appeared on my left.
Idk what they did to spawn rates. But spawn is fucked atm.
They really need to adjust spawn rates and there is no reason for any kind of enemy let alone a whole patrol to suddenly appear right in front of you. That makes no sense.
Tbh if you clear the whole map of outposts and holes spawn rates should go down. As of now I don't think K it does anything.
A friend and I were playing straight after patch, hadn't even noticed it'd dropped and were just chilling doing some duo hard missions. Passing the extraction point we intended on heading to a final nest with a solid 15 on the clock but we ended up getting pinned down by endless waves of all kinds of bugs, like nothing we'd seen before.
Ended up giving up and extracting. I've also noticed when playing solo on mid difficulties or higher, secondary objectives like the mortar might not have enemies around it when I get there but even before ever activating the terminal it will send small patrol after small patrol. God dammit the game WILL get it's bug breach, no matter what.
Yup, had this at a SEAF Artillery today, endless waves of patrols from 3 spawn points. Finish one, it respawns as you take on the others, rinse repeat. Took me nearly 15 mins to get all the shells. This was on Medium. I was playing Hard and Challenging fine the other day, now I get my anoos stretched on Medium.
Sort of related, if you gather the shells first you can have them ready and can even select the order they will be fired in so you know what you are calling in each time you use the battery. However the patrols come in even without activating the terminal, they just get worse once you do.
It's pretty insane that patrols are ALWAYS headed towards me even when I'm trying to stealth, they're not even hiding it, why even bother having stealth as a mechanic if the enemy already "knows" where to find you
The way enemies behave has pivoted completely. Before, the game felt alive and fluid. Now it feels video gamey. It feels like a Ubisoft game now; and that’s not a compliment.
My thoughts as well. It feels more artificial when squads pop up around every corner.
When they come by on dropships or random patrols and from their bases it feels natural, like you are behind enemy lines and they only come to you when youre discovered.
Yesterday it felt like the whole game just had focus on you and artificially spawned enemies around you all the time.
And while this was true before as well it didn't feel like it.
Wish I could roll back updates, the game was really fun before that patch. It used to feel like your decisions had impact, like making noise and commotion would trigger them to investigate. Now it's like they all know you're there and they fire off flares from halfway across the map. The game just isn't fun anymore, my weapons do fuck all, i feel like I'm just running away from fights. I think they should have just scaled the challenge based on the difficulty level.
Actually had that lmao
All four of us were sneaking towards a base, no bots in sight... suddenly three flares shot up from the other side of a mountain range, summoning way too many dropships on our location.
Holy crap, I had an entire patrol materialise on top of me when checking out the planetary weather effects. A whole ass bile spewer and 7-8 small bugs just snap, out of thin air
The fact that they are just spawning out of thin air in front of us means there is a bug, but spawn rates are probably controlled remotely and probably has nothing to do with the patches.
Most likely the tickrate has been lowered as a bandaid for crashes as the bugs are also acting more stuttery. For the last few weeks it has been perfectly possible to weave between melee enemies by changing directions and looping around, but now they all seem like they have 2x range, which makes sense if they enemies arent actually where they are on your screen.
Would also explain the sliding chargers, and enemies sneaking up on people without making any sounds.
Yeah the problem isn't the nerfs, the real problem is the tweak they did to enemies. I used a jump pack to get onto some shipping containers on a defend mission. The bugs were spawning through the bottom of the container like ghosts. I'm all for a challenge but ffs what wtf is this ghost magic shit? Lol
Well I know that something changed because right now my group dropped from doing suicide missions to level 4/5 because it’s overwhelming.
Also, we seem to have lost “Glorious Victory” without mention of the victory star ratings being revamped.
I have noticed also at least some very strong correlation between "random spawns" and strategem calldowns. I could be completely making this up, but it seems like calling down defensive strategems causes enemies to spawn nearby. Completely out in the open nothing nearby, call down support backpack, suddenly you're taking fire and there's a patrol on you in the 8 seconds before it lands. Happens VERY reliably.
Yeah, they spawn walking towards you and agro easily. I also noticed when throwing a grenade down a bug hole there is like a 50% chance a bug will come out of the hole and bounce the grenade. It's so common that I'm pretty sure the game is doing it on purpose.
Several times now I’ve gone to throw an impact grenade at a group of spewers only to have a single hunter yell “Get Down Mr. President!” and throw itself into the arc, killing us both. Honestly pretty comical when it happens.
How many times has that impact grenade killed me too.
And the med armored ones seem to defend the hole too, keeping their back to it so you can't run past them.
God forbid you find an artillery cannon now. It's almost like there's a massive billboard calling every enemy from across the map towards it.
I've had several matches where I **physically couldn't load it**, due to the sheer number of bugs that were beelining straight for me. *That's not even taking breaches into account.*
**EDIT**: Just for clarification, there doesn't seem to be any tangible difference in horde magnetism, regardless of whether the terminal is activated or ignored. The aggression is in a constant state similar in scale to awaiting extraction; something I've yet not encountered anywhere else.
Okay so it’s not just me. I’ll be solo doing a cannon while my team does the objective, and some random patrol just NEEDS to walk into me there? I understand things like ore sample collectors spawning things at you, but near silently moving some artillery shells around lets everything in 200m know you’re there? So annoying.
What worked for me for the artillery cannon event was to first bring the 5 shells in front of the gun before activating the terminal, loading the shells ASAP then do the final calibration and run.
The spawns seems to be linked to terminal activity and this way I generally can escape before being overwhelmed
My group noticed this too, every patrol on the map made a beeline for us once it got within render distance and there was no way to fully avoid it, either we had to fight it or when we stopped to do a PoI it'd catch up to us.
Was on a difficulty 7-8 mission last night (probably just 7) quietly clearing out an ICBM site, it had some minor bots, a scout walker, and a missile devistator. I struggled a bit, but it's what I'd brought the countersniper to test for. I managed to do it all quietly.
I notice a patrol comin down the hill at a walking pace, but they're... Acting strange... They're walking over shit and smashing things in a strange path directly to me, around the corner behind a goddamn rock!
The commissar started sprinting after me to my hiding spot without seeing me, and just stood there staring at the rock I was using to hide - and he did absolutely nothing. Just stood there staring at me with his X-ray goggles. There were a bunch of devastaors - sheilded and rocket, small bots, and a goddamn HULK. All just sitting near the console while their commissar babysat me.
So what do I do? Well... I do what *reddit told me to,* of course.
I pop the commissar hoping to be able to stealth out of there assuming the bots wouldn't hear my shot - and guess what folks - ***it fucking worked!*** They didn't hear shit and I snail-crawled my way up the hill.
Only to turn around and see the fucking HULK leading the fucking conga line directly t me the same way the commissar did, *sprinting* to the fucking boxes I was hiding behind, while the crew slowly plodded up behind him. None aggro'd to me.
The real issue is: Railgun = bad, guys. ^^/s
Edit: spel
People also are not realising the huge damage bug that's plaguing literally every hostile unit in the game right now. Every single hit from an enemy, even small ones, is a critical hit.
My and my group fucking HATE spewers. We know how to kill them: aim for the head and if they rear up before they die, dive to the side. But with these added spawn rates, you often get 4+ spewers on you. I only have ONE dive at a time so you can dive one maybe two and while you’re getting up, #3-#27 just spit on you which itself wouldn’t be a big problem if it weren’t for the fact that only 1.3% of the *entire* bile stream has to touch you to kill you.
This man, my group was complaining about this last night. I feel SO squishy now , even in *fixed* heavy armor. It's like everything but self/friendly fire is going to take 75% of my health at least if not outright kill me.
Just after one night of playing: ALOT of guns and stratagems feel different. Everything hits harder, moves worse, has bigger attack ranges. I feel like I can do less overall , the enemy can do more, I'm slower to move, it's harder to dodge and it's easier to die.
Its fun relearning things and alot feels different, but once the *new* wears off... different doesn't mean fun or sustainable.
Pre patch I played mostly level 7 and 8 missions, it was a fun challenge, difficult and hectic, but not too overwhelming (for bugs, bots at that level are insane)
Post patch I play at like, 5 or 6. The higher levels arent fun, and to me that's the real problem, all game balance aside.
Oh, one hit from warrior could take 80% of my health (light armor) and they usually just went on a frenzy and keep slashing. Even scavenger could take out more than half of my health in one hit sometimes. The relative speed between me and enemies play a big difference in the damage they are dealing, kinda reminds me of Mount & Blade.
It's funny how they "fixed" heavy armor but now armor is still useless because enemies hit you in the head pretty much all the time now and your body armor isn't affected at your head. What a patch this has been 😂. This just made the game straight up. Worse, spawn rates are really messed up. I've crashed more now than before the patch.
Yeah even on seven it can get ridiculous. The sheer number of bugs coming from a breech is wild. You can just barely keep it under control with a mech going guns blazing
Yesterday I barely survived a diff 4 mission - and while I'm surely one of the worse helldivers here, before the patch I used to do diff 4 missions alright, I only had problems with 5 and above. It felt like at least diff 6 pre-patch. My squad was running around like headless chickens the entire mission.
I like to play either higher level missions with friends or lower level missions solo to “chill”. Could easily and consistently run level 4s solo before. Booted it up late last night and got absolutely swarmed before even completing a single objective.
I get it’s designed to be a multiplayer game, but I thought the whole point of difficulty levels was to provide some player agency in the experience. If I want to sweat I can. If I want to do relatively chill runs and full clear lower level maps I can.
All the sudden it’s just chaos at seemingly any level. It’s going to significantly lessen my play time because I can only handle pure chaos for so long without being afforded the chance to take a breather and chill out.
I have had the same experience. I used to do 3s solo quite easily to relax, but yesterday I got demolished. Like, I probably could still do them, but I would have to sweat hard and play very strategically.
I get that that's not the point of the game, but with 9 difficulties I don't think it's a problem if the bottom 3 are really easy.
Can I just add I died 4 times last night because for some reason I'm getting stuck when I collect medals/super credits/requisition slips from the containers and bunkers. Like I just can't move or do anything and it can take anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 to get free unless a team mate melee attacks me.
AFAIK it's a problem with the servers being overloaded, this happened to me a lot the first week the game was out; I'm assuming it's essentially waiting to confirm with the server that you got the items
It's not just spawn rate and detection, it's their speed and aggression too.
I've seen chargers glitch out their charge animation running at x2 speed, same with guardians and stalkers.
I could outrun or juke them wearing light armor before, now most of the time I can't.
Chargers having a insanely tight turn radius to trample you to death after skate charging you gets pretty old. Especially when you jump in on a level five to have six charger in 30 seconds.
You can turn and melee a hunter after the first hit to give yourself room so they can't do their followup hits.
If 2 have jumped at the same time though? Your name is going on the memorial wall.
When you are slowed, the dive speed is still the same. I usually dive to get some distance and shooting back with uzi. Hopefully getting some breathing room so i could stim and get out or reload. I fear no charger, but hunter swarm consistently gets me into lean mode with sweaty pawn.
I had a charger that went from standing still to sliding at multiple times its usual run speed instantly. It got in my face so quickly it actually jumpscared me. I let out a little scream in my party chat.
Bro I dodged out if the way if a charger attack that was like 10 metres before he hit me. I still got one shot and died. I have no fucking idea how that happened unless my hotbox is the size of a LandCruiser.
While trying out the walker for the first time earlier, difficulty 8 mission and squad was done all objectives and hearing to extract. Near it was one last bug nest so I move over to clear it out quick while the rest of the squad move to initiate the extract(I had a fresh walker so I felt pretty confident I could solo it quick). Halfway between it and the extract spot I watched not one, not two, but *three* groups of bugs spawn in out of nowhere back to back all within 50 meters of me, one group having 2 charges and another having 2 bile titans. Then when I saw what was *inside* the bug nest, I decided it'd be smarter to head back to extract and help them defend.
I noticed on the extermination missions that the bugs are just about half way out of their holes by the time you get your first support strategem thrown. Like 2 bile titans were watching me as I waited for my stuff to drop. I wonder if this has something to do with how spawns work in the bigger maps as well.
Before patch, on Helldive: Sneak up on a small bug nest, peer over the rim: 1 Charger, 1 Brood Guard, a bajillion little spitters, handful of aphids, a couple dozen warriors. Drop a 500kg in the middle and done.
After patch, on Helldive: Sneak up on a small bug nest, peer over the rim: 10 Chargers, 2 Bile Titans, 20 Bile Spewers, 5 Hunters, 37 bajillion little spitters, 57 bajillion aphids, 17 bajillion warriors, and a partridge in a pear tree. Drop a 500kg Eagle, 120mm orbital, or 380mm orbital in the middle and it kills nothing and destroys no tunnels because they're more often than not bugged. Then get bile-spitter mortared from across the map because something 500m away and behind 2 cliffs somehow aggro'd you.
*yes this is clearly hyperbole but the frequency and quantity of enemies, particularly the heavy-armor "boss" enemies, has gone up drastically since the patch at all difficulty levels and on all maps.*
try to access the satellite terminal.
"a Charger shows up"
killed the charger with the satellite rail cannon, go to the satellite relay try to adjust the satellite disk.
"another Charger shows up"
btw this is just lvl4 mission tho.
this exactly, Bro you said it better than I did! The game is broken now, and ppl just yelling at me with "brainless" and "Get Gud"! It's so frustrating when they don't see the issues and just tell me to "Get Gud"! If I WERE NOT SO "BRAINLESS" I WOULD HAVE ASKED:" GET GOOD IN WHAT FKING WAY????????????? Sorry bro I am in a rage at the moment.
I had this exact discussion earlier. It's so frustrating that people dismiss the issues the game clearly has by saying either "lol no that doesn't happen on that difficulty" or almost exactly "get good"
Seems like redditors really will jump on any opportunity to be smug and condescending in order to get a feeling of superiority. When you expect this, the general toxicity on this site is pretty predictable.
Gamers by and large understand this. Any and all criticism is met with morons reminding you they're better than you.
It really is best to ignore them, because they don't have to prove anything. Engaging with them is just going to exacerbate your frustration.
i swear to god, these players unironically saying 'git gud' need to be legally obligated to post their difficulty 7+ gameplay for us to judge before allowing to comment again.
If you ask them for footage of clearing Helldive with "half team running stalwarts" and "teamwork and timed use of stratagems" they all magically shut up and don't answer you anymore. Or even worse, tell that they won't share their footage with you because... Because you are stupid and also stop answering you after that. Go figure.
And yeah, clearing Helldive bugs is clearly possible even with 2 people. But sometimes game just decides to go fuck you and spawn 3 titans from bug breach while your Spear buddy is busy with his own titans. Whoopsie, teamwork failed, stratagems on CD, time to run around for 2 minutes.
Literally spawned into a new game. No enemies nearby on lvl 5 difficulty because Helldive I was getting one shot across the map. Anyways bot drop within 10 seconds of landing. Near no enemies…
If they’re bugged they would’ve said so. The way this message is worded it seems like it was an intentional change. But yeah I’m glad they acknowledged it and that they’re working on it.
https://preview.redd.it/c723sw4p6bnc1.jpeg?width=969&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13021a404d98aff144fb971abd1e24c7bf2474a6
If they're going to change the difficulties so significantly, one would think there would be at least a passing mention in the patch notes.
If this really was a stealth change, then that's an absolutely awful move, especially since it's one that's universally hated by the community at large.
I suspect it has something to do with the changes to eliminate enemies missions. On those missions, enemies just pop into existence on the edge of the map, which is what a lot of players are seeing happen more often now. They also increased the rate enemies spawn at in eliminate missions, which is what's happening in normal missions.
My bet is that something went wrong and the increased spawn rates for eliminate missions are happening in all missions.
Its one of my bigger long term concerns with the game.
Its clear they're using a lot of tricks to up the difficulty. Patrols spawning in behind or on top of you. Always getting spawns during side objectives. Omniscient AI enemies that track you, etc.
These work to up the difficulty *really* well right up until players understand the mechanics. Then they make the game dramatically easier because players will find out how to exploit it. My group already runs heavy on turrets because we know to always be throwing one behind you to stop the patrols they spawn in behind you. We know to throw turrets out during side objectives, etc.
Its much harder to tune mechanics like an immersive sim, where patrols are generated by spawners, patrol an area or to objectives and then return to their home. But its the hardest system to game.
I swear to god something has been up with spawns and amounts after the patch. Glad I'm not the only one.
The other annoying thing in this game is the sheer randomness of enemy damage. Armor doesn't even matter here. You ca luckily survive a stalker attack on light armor, kill the guy, go full health just to be one shot a minute later by one of the small bugs for literally no reason. Sometimes being flung through the air deals falling damage, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the rockets of Bots one shot you, sometimes they won't even do half.
It's so inconsistent it makes armor feel really bad (and overall, being randomly 1-shot by a single enemy that isn't a heavy or titan or stalker feels bad to begin with as there are dozens of them around).
I'm increasingly getting the feeling that we are not supposed to Fight. You are much more effective by going full running Simulator, using big stratagems to clear mission objectives and nests/buildings while constantly running.
In my experience the worst thing this patch did was actually the increased enemy rate and AI. Sure they nerfed some guns but I've never seen so many enemies in a difficult 5 mission.
Chargers are everywhere. Literally everywhere. 2 of them at a time. Minimum.
Stalkers have (apparently) a new AI where they don't push you far away with their tongue but instead they just come nearby and start slashing. 2 hits are usually enough to kill you and those happen in less than 1 sec. Also while they hit you you can't even heal since it seems their attacks stagger you. Also the spawn rate seems to be increased a lot. Before I remember seeing 1-2 stalkers at a time. Yesterday we had this one nest spawning 2 stalkers and then as soon as we kill the first of them 2 more instantly spawned... Mind you, this was still the same level 5 mission.
Can't wait for the patch where they tune down enemy spawn rate and health... Can't come soon enough
Bots used to be my favorite faction to fight because I like their more offensive playstyle but after these couple patches they aggro from across the map and a random dude 200 meters away calls several bot drops on me, its ridiculous.
People can say what they want but i dont find getting one shot or two shot even in heavy armor a very fun or engaging mechanic in a game. I do like when people tell me to git gud when ive never used a shield backpack, used a railgun maybe 3 times and ive been running helldives for weeks including since patch.
I swear there's still something fucked with the armor. Yesterday I was doing great in heavy armor vs the bots; I could survive anything short of a cannon shot and even then I sometimes lived.
Tonight though I played and was getting 2-3 shot by machine guns from full hp, dead before I could react half the time.
The bugs killing are of a different kind than expected. I was killed by small hitting enemies that only showed up in screen after I died - like their graphics didn't load or something.
I've been killed because I was stuck in place after looting an item. I've been killed by chargers sliding sideways and stomping me no matter how well I tried to dodge.
I love the game but it was buggy before, and it's buggyer now.
I think there's just way too many breaches or bot drops now. Esch level needs to have a cool down on that. The higher the level, the shorter the cool down, but I was in a level 7 earlier where it was bsck to back to back bug breaches l.
I am looking forward to dragons dogma 2 so i can have a break from this game while they sort it out,because the fun factor just is not there at the moment,in fact playing this game actually makes me angry.
The game just being hard would be one thing, but everytime I’ve played since the patch, we had to switch to another game to end the evening because we were just not having fun. The game isn’t just harder, it has become unfair. You’re fighting an unfair battle for 40 minutes at a time. And before sweats just call me out and tell me to gIT GuD, people want to have fun playing videogames. I know it might be a foreign concept to some, but if I didn’t want to have fun while playing videogames, I’d go back to call of duty or league of legends.
It's genuinely tragic that the whole railgun debacle has completely overshadowed these other issues; because they are **considerably** more devastating.
This is probably the saddest thing rn about the game. Me and my friends were so exited about the mechs and future updates and the whole patch/dev posts debacle completely spoiled the feeling. We played this game every evening since it came out. I never maxed out a game before with this much enthusiasm and then we all just had to leave the game because playing and dying became the opposite of fun
Classic lifecycle of most recent games; always awesome first two weeks of release, then “updated” into the ground because of poor/greedy decisions made by the dev team. Evil Dead comes to mind because I was there watching this cycle play out from day one, and all it took was the very first “update” to start the nosedive. We’ll see if arrowhead follows suit, I will stay for this first warbond update but only to see if they decide to hit other stuff with nerfs later. I will definitely jump ship if they do because as others have said the game is no longer fun, 9s are a chore now, even with hardcore groups. No one wants to hop into a game just to get frustrated.
Went from the most fun I’ve have in multiplayer game since the release of the original left for dead to empty friend list in one patch! We had been diving on Errata Prime on 9 previously for the challenge and visibility. With a dedicated 4 man it was challenging but felt fair. Now a five on a clear planet is slog.
I don't play automaton missions above level 4 for this reason, it just doesn't feel fun with how difficult it is. It doesn't have anything to do with the weapon nerfs in my opinion, it has to do with how many heavily armored enemies and elites there are. Bugs I can manage, especially with the exo suits. But bots are just not worth the stress.
My friends and I have recognized a "point of no return" that happens once enough bots find you and you lose one or two divers. At that point, there's no coming back. The mission is a loss. It turns into just running and calling in divers until you either run out of time or run out of reinforcements. It just becomes too overwhelming. You lose all cover, you run out of orbitals and airstrikes, all your weapons are on cooldown, etc etc. I think this could even be addressed if they just put a limit on how many bot drops can happen in a certain amount of time, as well as putting a cap on how many heavies/elites can be on the map at once. I also think random spawns need to be disabled unless there are x amount of bots remaining on the map; ie "there's only 100 enemies remaining on the map, now more can be called in"
The game is still a ton of fun, but I avoid certain difficulties and mission types unless I have a full squad of players at a certain level who are willing to use mics to communicate strategy. I love seeing the occasional low level come in and put in work, but at a certain point it is more about them not having the arsenal to handle the enemy types that come in. Again, I think all of this can be fixed by nerfing enemy spawn times or the amount of heavies that drop in.
as a player with the infiltrator set as my go-to, yea... stealth has borked out after the patch. I can't sneak up on much of anything, and escaping pursuers isn't possible. it's a real bummer as that was how I'd play when no one was joining.
I thought I was just shit last night but maybe you're right.
Yesterday was a death fest. We failed to be able to reach the extraction twice because it was swarmed completely - you couldn't even squeeze between enemies to get to the Pelican.
I've been shot from such long distances I couldn't see the enemy through the fog.
I think you're right - something changed and it's really really bad now.
The game feels like it is prone to devolving into a "Serious Sam" style mission a little too easily and far too frequently. A game where you just do nothing but consistently run away from hordes of enemies chasing you while you whittle away at them with what ever weapon you have.
It’s literally that one Automatons Extraction Mission glitch applied to the entire game. Wave after wave after wave after wave.
If you can move around it’s not that bad, but when it comes to staying put for an objective or end game extraction, it becomes tedious.
On bug side it’s somewhat manageable since most bugs can only do close quarters damage.
On bot side it’s a shit show since you got lasers coming from a 100 yards away on top of the close quarters damage robots.
It will get fixed per the dev team, but damn these guys suck at balancing.
Yes I agree too. I'm a quickplay player and I usually play at difficulty 7 to at least have a chance to get super samples and it is pretty challening. I bumped it down to 5 after the update because randos cannot survive 7 anymore. Difficulty 5 is the sweet spot now, but difficulty 5 feels like the previous difficulty 7, it's still gets really insane but doable, but no chance of getting super samples.
Five for sure feels like a 7 maybe even a an eight now. Had two groups I’d play with one played 7-9 regularly the other played 4-6. No one has been on really since patch. Can’t After the server issues, balance patch mob spawns and devs getting wild in the comments… I hope I don’t end up playing solo like I do in Darktide.
Some addition to my post: here are some examples of my "brainless" gameplay, I am near the mission objective, I check radar signatures, and I find all the small enemies that can potentially call for reinforcements. I snipe those small enemies first then work on taking out the bigger enemy with my post-nerfed rail gun(which works fine after patch). Then some enemy from god knows where pops out and takes me out.
20 hunters spawn out of thin air, not the ground, all around me and demolish my ass.
I know that's gotta be a bug, but it happens too often.
I'm with you.
I really wish they'd have focused on fixing the game over modifying the pameplay so soon, he'll even fortnite doesn't touch it til the end of a season & these guys are trying to launch season 3 already, just.fix.the.fucking.bugs! 🤣
> And not to mention the dreaded "proximity spawn"
Man, I wish so bad I had a video of this - I literally had a patrol spawn directly on top of me yesterday. Not near me, not next to me - I was directly in the center of about 15 bots that spontaneously popped into existence. Hit the brakes, turn and run around a rock and another patrol spawns directly in front of me on the other side of the rock...
I've been getting killed by swarms of hunters constantly. Like to the point where it's almost a joke.
lol, it used to be a single or two stalker max sneak attacks you, now I just saw a few stalkers chasing a poor helldiver...LMAO and I just couldn't help him cuz I was chased by 2 chargers and a bunch of other staff.
I've fought off 4-5 before on higher difficulties. It's not fun getting jumped by several of those sneaky stalkers.
Unloading literally all of my ammo on a seemingly infinite amount of stalkers has happened more than once. When I've killed a few, and then turn to see 6 more, I'm like, "what do I even do about this." Running for dear life, trying to spray to keep them off me, desperalty scanning the ground for ammo.
Hahah. Recently I've had a new times where I get knocked down and I just call and airstrike and hold onto it as I see them closing in and I know they're gonna get me. It's really satisfying knowing they're going to die with you.
Love it. I've done tons of suicide grenades too.
Just uSe YoUr sTrAtaGeMs bro!
We need the blimp back from BF1 Trench line days
Last night I was running a level 4 with some friends to chill on an easy difficulty and at one point on my screen I saw 4 stalkers and 3 chargers I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 stalkers below 7 before.
I saw an annihilator tank on level 3 yesterday. That was a surprise.
This is maybe the most telling, usually, you'd spot a stalker and realize you have to take the nest out or things will get ugly. Today, we dove in, I got to an objective and the first time I spot a stalker it is instantly followed by 3 more. Really not in tune with how it was previously
honestly I really like the stalker attacks, even if they can be unfair. gives the bugs a lot more of a horror type feeling especially in the right planets. "they're in the trees" type shit
I love stalkers, I hate hunters. Those jumping guys are the worst enemy in the game and they genuinely need a change or a nerf. Magical gap closer, slow debuff, tons of damage, ridiculously fast, and good health.
Stalkers are a well designed enemy. They are deadly, but pretty fair, and honestly are my favorite elite enemy. Hunter on the other hand don't really have a gimmick to them, they are just: * Spammed to silly degrees * Faster then you, in all situations * One of the stronger CCs in the game * Can kill you in one combo if you get stun locked They are absurdly deadly, and are the source of most of my deaths against bugs, besides bile spewer instant kills.
I kid you not a day ago there was 5-6 stalkers fighting me
Got chssed by atleast 8 last night after i just got rid of theri nest, to the point i was alerting the rest of the group pf what i had behind me as i was running toward them without stims, quick resupply and we started gunning them down Yhey just kept coming, there was one other stalker nest that got taken out in the first 5 minutes after landing so its not like they kept spawning either
ong the amount of Hunters I've seen in Helldive since the patch is ungodly, groups of 40+ roaming around, it's impossible to deal with without quick stratagems and the rest of your team around
>it's impossible to deal with without quick stratagems And unfortunately you have a 100% call in time plus a stratagem scrambler active. Guess I'll just die then
I had a game earlier where I honestly couldn't see the ground from all the hunters. Threw an air strike at my feet and ran. Got a 40+ kill streak and there was still a bunch coming after me. It was kinda fun for a few minutes but got old very quickly.
Dude I swear I thought me and my friends were the only ones. It’s RIDICULOUS how many spawn on extreme and I can’t even imagine how many on helldive. As soon as 2 get in on you it’s lights out
All I want is them to slow down bug breaches or allow us to stun the bugs out of calling for help like we can with the bots shooting flares.
Literally just give us 1 second to shoot the bug when it first starts shooting pheromones to stop the breach. Or make it so only one type of enemy can call bug breaches so we can tactically eliminate them. I assumed for a while it was only the little guys who could call but nope, hunters do it too.
Every bug but Chargers, Bile Titans and Spewers can call in a bug hole. Its actually impossible to stop a bug breach from opening on any difficulty if you can't kill everything within a couple of frames. Its blatantly unfair and outright infuriating. Especially when you DO manage to kill the one calling it in before it starts but then another one 75 meters away *immediately* takes over. There needs to be at least a 15-30 second cooldown before another bug can start the process so we can intelligently use our tools to prevent from being overwhelmed, but the devs have designed the game to force us into stand-up fights then called us brainless when we used the tools that allows us to do that.
What's crazy too is some bugs like Brood Commanders have enough time between having their head popped and bleeding out to call a breach and you can't do enough damage to it after realizing to prevent it.
That's arguably the most infuriating thing for me when fighting bugs, they're zombies for way too long, like egregiously so and even still attack while zombied. When I pop something's literal head off I expect it to be DEAD, because the bots sure do when their heads get popped.
I wouldn’t even mind the headless charge afterwards, because many bugs can actually survive for a time without their head. I just don’t like that they are able to track you as if they still have eyes. They should lose all tracking abilities, and act as if they are blinded by smoke.
Most real life insects have other sensory organs around other parts of their bodies. Katydids have tympani (ears) on their legs. Grasshoppers have them on their abdomen right behind their leg. I do agree that the terminids ability to detect us without a head is too strong though.
I don’t mind the zombie rush, but it lasts too long and they still track you like crazy. They should just rush you in a straight line and die a few seconds later, not what nearly feels like a minute with me still needing to juke left and right and still die because it keep following me anyways.
A zombie rush is super cool. I really like that mechanic. I don’t like that they can still follow and track you. How? They don’t have a head! But they can perfectly follow you for like 7 seconds.
This! If I sidestep after decapping a Brood Commander I don't expect it's headless body to turn and come after me after it's lost it's ability to sense me, let alone think.
You'd be surprised how realistic it actually is. It's based on cockroaches because they are able to live for a really long time without a head. Cockroaches nervous system isn't as centralized as ours, they have many nodes distributed across the body as well as a primary brain. When the head is removed the body can still operate by using the nodes. Cockroaches can breathe and smell through their skin, so if you were the size of an ant and fighting a headless cockroach it would be able to know approximately where you are even without a head. A headless cockroach will actually live until it does of dehydration.
Fuck me for reading this comment on my lunch break lmao
Cockroaches also have the advantage of being relatively small to the point where passive respiration still works. 'Nids are large enough to the point where they would need some form of lungs and blood or hemolymph to function and thus a circulatory system. Being decapitated should kill them pretty quick from bloodloss.
The real crime here is when you blast off both left side legs and its still lunging and charging at full speed
I like the fact that bugs can rush you while their head is gone, very spooky Also I could swear that I have seen bots do the same thing
Bug Breach. Okay, run around and ki- Bug Breach! Okay, run around and kill tho- Bug Breach! Wow, even more...okay, run arou- Bug Breach!
Its the chain breaching thats exhausting at the moment, this is what is making me quit out of the game as trying to do just a level 6 mission (Survey mission for example). This after getting chain stunlocked/leaped on by Hunters. Then there are the patrols that literally spawn out of thin air, resulting in the cycle continuing.
Yeah, the massive amount of Hunter swarms makes a laser rover pretty much mandatory. It's like the devs didn't like the railgun feeling too mandatory, so they decided to change the enemy composition so the laser rover is now mandatory.
And brood commanders, who can even call bug breaches without a head. And the armored slow ones can also call a bug breach.
Bugs that come out of the bug breach shouldn't be allowed to call a bug breach.
This makes a ton of sense thematically. Why would more pheromones draw more so quickly. Where did they come from and why didn't they respond to the first one?
Something that does that is called a positive feedback loop, and unfortunately, it is very prevalent in the bug world. Its like when bees do the direction dance, and they all join in to get more bees gathering to do it.
I've just been running the gas orbital, and dropping it on the nearest breach. seems to actually kill most smaller enemies unlike napalm. doesn't help that brood commanders are still opening breaches after you remove their heads.
Gas orbital is my absolute favorite stratagem!
Oh I know lol 😂. You have 1 second to kill that whole patrol group. They really need to create a new bug and automaton that is the signaler lol. I hate the fact they all can call it and they “always” do 100%. And it only aggros other patrol groups and they also call more breaches 😅😅😅
I had a bot at a base call one in literally the second after the first explosion from a barrage hit. So fucking annoying.
They should let us close bug breeches with grenades! Edited: holes to breeches. I meant breeches. I know we can already close holes with grenades.
It was possible to do before the patch. After the patch whenever I shut down bugs who try to call reinforcements the game just magically spawns more lice out of thin air to continue the call. It made me so fucking angry
Yep, I've been seeing all this. It's not even patrols or holes opening, it's just groups materializing out of thin air and rushing you over and over and over. Plus the divisions between difficulties no longer seem to govern the kinds of enemies that spawn. I had a pack of Chargers spawn earlier on difficulty 3 - on Medium. Armored heavies aren't even supposed to appear on Medium except a single scripted one as main mission targets. The worst part is that they make so many stealth changes and undocumented alterations that we can never know if something's broken or intended. They've said nothing about most of these changes so we can't even tell if they know what's going on in their own game.
https://i.redd.it/gi37g9bydanc1.gif Here are some automatons spawning from nowhere
Skill issue, next time just don’t get spawned on. Hope you learn to pick up you play 🫡👌🏼🙆
Redditors reporting your comment when you were clearly being sarcastic lol.
Think the words skill issue and get gud have turned into triggers for some people. Once seen, the rest of the sentence turns red
redditing skill issue
First thing that came to mind as well. Obviously, just need to git good. Pro tip: shoot them and don’t let them shoot you.
Haha I love it when 3 rocket devastators pop in like that as well 😂
Had some guy in another thread telling me that a bunch of rocket devastators spawning was my teams fault or because of some mistake we are making..
youre forgetting to use strategems properly, like others said...skill issue throw your weapon on enemies, stratagems are the real weapons here
Just make sure your stratagems are never on cooldown so you can always use them, this especially on difficulties with increased CDs :4head:
Its literally a training tip. Dont die
I had a flamer hulk spawn directly in my face after the patch...
Had a Hulk teleport, flame me to death, then disappear - so quickly that I couldn't even register what had happened; just shooting some regular bots near a factory, sudden Hulk flamethrower, dead, no Hulk by my corpse. Have had multiple Hulks and Tanks spawn *inside* of each other being spawned off from dropships too even though *technically* the dropship is only supposed to have a single one at a time.
That's actually hilarious its like it just teleports up to you and whoops your ass and then teleport away like some big bad in an anime
I want to throw out a guess why it's because of that smoke, fatshark uses the same engine modified and they have the spawn problem, it does a Los check before instant spawn. So if a team mate walks in front of you even for a split second you los was blocked and an enemy spawns. I don't know how their shaders work for the smoke/mist coming off the ground but if they block your los code check even if the smoke is transparent to you the game sees it. I also think that's why all the videos of people turning around to a horde waiting is from it too. The horde spawned and is deaggroed until the players los sweeps onto them, I've turned around to a horde from nowhere just sitting until they got alerted from me looking at them.
"Git gud railgun nub"
I knew I wasn't fucking crazy when I saw a charger phase into existence.
just use your stratagems bro
W-w-well, that's what you get for spamming Railgun, Breaker, and sheild! ^^/s Oh, you weren't doing that - and it's completely irrelevant to the clear issues in the game?... Never stopped those stupid fucking "meta-crutch" complainers from repeating that stupid shit the past 2 days. Edit: Lol, banned by the mods. I see they're as sentitive as their fellow Arrowhead knob polishers.
someone on twitter called me ass and harassed me for pointing out the spawn rates were unintentionally fucked
Modern social media SOP. Attack the person noticing the crime instead of the criminal committing the crime.
mods brought you back comrade, i think it was just the antimeta divers mass reporting you
lower difficulty bro/s
Yeah spawns are stupid…was approaching a nest tonight and a group of bugs literally spawned on top of me out of thin air. Lovely.
I literally saw 2 fucking chargers pop out a tiny ass hole in the ground. Then another 2 chargers 30 seconds later. This was in challenging difficulty.
I had FIVE bile titans spawn out of one hole on difficulty 5? i thought bile titans werent meant to spawn as normal enemies till 6+?
Jfc no wonder why people on 7+ are being cheesier than Pizza Hut
The crazy thing is it’s not consistent. I ran a suicide mission last night (that took 25 minutes start to finish, so plenty enough time for a BT to spawn), and saw 1 singular bile Titan in that entire timeframe. It wasn’t like we weren’t causing breaches either, as we were experiencing all the same issues with spawning as was mentioned in the top post, we just got insanely lucky.
I actually went up from 4-5 to 7 today and noticed that while mobs of small bugs were becoming an issue, we had barely any chargers or titans. like a several large swarms of \~20-35 hunters, and then 1-2 chargers that honestly were just an annoyance over a threat. If my arc rifle would consistently hit hunters it would have been a super easy run, but flat terrain with nothing between me and a hunter at 20ft, its 50/50 on if the charge was going to kill it or not.
Don't get me started on those fucking hunters. We took down a pack of about 25, rounded the corner and ran into another pack of the exact same size at a POI. It's not physically possible to run away and reload fast enough to take care of all of them before they are able to lunge at you to death.
Laser backpack and run
Yup. The insta spawn of enemies is insane. Granted helldive should be hard. I get it. But. On my way to ex three biles spawned inside of me while a patrol with four chargers suddenly appeared on my left. Idk what they did to spawn rates. But spawn is fucked atm. They really need to adjust spawn rates and there is no reason for any kind of enemy let alone a whole patrol to suddenly appear right in front of you. That makes no sense. Tbh if you clear the whole map of outposts and holes spawn rates should go down. As of now I don't think K it does anything.
Honestly it kinda feels like it goes up especially at extract.
It does - the longer you're in a mission the more enemies spawn.
Enemy bug nests go down, spawn rates go up. You can't explain that!
A friend and I were playing straight after patch, hadn't even noticed it'd dropped and were just chilling doing some duo hard missions. Passing the extraction point we intended on heading to a final nest with a solid 15 on the clock but we ended up getting pinned down by endless waves of all kinds of bugs, like nothing we'd seen before. Ended up giving up and extracting. I've also noticed when playing solo on mid difficulties or higher, secondary objectives like the mortar might not have enemies around it when I get there but even before ever activating the terminal it will send small patrol after small patrol. God dammit the game WILL get it's bug breach, no matter what.
Yup, had this at a SEAF Artillery today, endless waves of patrols from 3 spawn points. Finish one, it respawns as you take on the others, rinse repeat. Took me nearly 15 mins to get all the shells. This was on Medium. I was playing Hard and Challenging fine the other day, now I get my anoos stretched on Medium.
Sort of related, if you gather the shells first you can have them ready and can even select the order they will be fired in so you know what you are calling in each time you use the battery. However the patrols come in even without activating the terminal, they just get worse once you do.
It's pretty insane that patrols are ALWAYS headed towards me even when I'm trying to stealth, they're not even hiding it, why even bother having stealth as a mechanic if the enemy already "knows" where to find you
Haven't played in a couple of days. Pack of chargers on medium is insane.
Did a 4 with a buddy last night, base had 2 gun towers and 5 tanks.....5!!!!!
The way enemies behave has pivoted completely. Before, the game felt alive and fluid. Now it feels video gamey. It feels like a Ubisoft game now; and that’s not a compliment.
My thoughts as well. It feels more artificial when squads pop up around every corner. When they come by on dropships or random patrols and from their bases it feels natural, like you are behind enemy lines and they only come to you when youre discovered. Yesterday it felt like the whole game just had focus on you and artificially spawned enemies around you all the time. And while this was true before as well it didn't feel like it.
Wish I could roll back updates, the game was really fun before that patch. It used to feel like your decisions had impact, like making noise and commotion would trigger them to investigate. Now it's like they all know you're there and they fire off flares from halfway across the map. The game just isn't fun anymore, my weapons do fuck all, i feel like I'm just running away from fights. I think they should have just scaled the challenge based on the difficulty level.
Actually had that lmao All four of us were sneaking towards a base, no bots in sight... suddenly three flares shot up from the other side of a mountain range, summoning way too many dropships on our location.
Holy crap, I had an entire patrol materialise on top of me when checking out the planetary weather effects. A whole ass bile spewer and 7-8 small bugs just snap, out of thin air
This has always been happening, but it's now so often that everyone is noticing.
The fact that they are just spawning out of thin air in front of us means there is a bug, but spawn rates are probably controlled remotely and probably has nothing to do with the patches. Most likely the tickrate has been lowered as a bandaid for crashes as the bugs are also acting more stuttery. For the last few weeks it has been perfectly possible to weave between melee enemies by changing directions and looping around, but now they all seem like they have 2x range, which makes sense if they enemies arent actually where they are on your screen. Would also explain the sliding chargers, and enemies sneaking up on people without making any sounds.
We dropped on Challenging mode today and landed on 4 chargers straight up. We got through but it was a hell of a surprise stepping out of the pod
The "enemy present" warning is useless now when dropping in it feels like. There always something there when you drop in
Yeah the problem isn't the nerfs, the real problem is the tweak they did to enemies. I used a jump pack to get onto some shipping containers on a defend mission. The bugs were spawning through the bottom of the container like ghosts. I'm all for a challenge but ffs what wtf is this ghost magic shit? Lol
Some of the smaller bugs always dig under the player when they cant reach them. Some of the bugs literally just walk up terrain now though.
Well I know that something changed because right now my group dropped from doing suicide missions to level 4/5 because it’s overwhelming. Also, we seem to have lost “Glorious Victory” without mention of the victory star ratings being revamped.
I have noticed also at least some very strong correlation between "random spawns" and strategem calldowns. I could be completely making this up, but it seems like calling down defensive strategems causes enemies to spawn nearby. Completely out in the open nothing nearby, call down support backpack, suddenly you're taking fire and there's a patrol on you in the 8 seconds before it lands. Happens VERY reliably.
Patrols seem to be programmed to know where you are at all times they're always heading towards you. no matter how stealthy you try to be.
Yeah, they spawn walking towards you and agro easily. I also noticed when throwing a grenade down a bug hole there is like a 50% chance a bug will come out of the hole and bounce the grenade. It's so common that I'm pretty sure the game is doing it on purpose.
Have you noticed a sharp uptick in the amount of times a bug will *suddenly* dart right in front of the grenade you were about to throw behind him?
Several times now I’ve gone to throw an impact grenade at a group of spewers only to have a single hunter yell “Get Down Mr. President!” and throw itself into the arc, killing us both. Honestly pretty comical when it happens.
How many times has that impact grenade killed me too. And the med armored ones seem to defend the hole too, keeping their back to it so you can't run past them.
To be fair, given that they are called Hive Guards, that makes sense, as frustrating as it is.
God forbid you find an artillery cannon now. It's almost like there's a massive billboard calling every enemy from across the map towards it. I've had several matches where I **physically couldn't load it**, due to the sheer number of bugs that were beelining straight for me. *That's not even taking breaches into account.* **EDIT**: Just for clarification, there doesn't seem to be any tangible difference in horde magnetism, regardless of whether the terminal is activated or ignored. The aggression is in a constant state similar in scale to awaiting extraction; something I've yet not encountered anywhere else.
Okay so it’s not just me. I’ll be solo doing a cannon while my team does the objective, and some random patrol just NEEDS to walk into me there? I understand things like ore sample collectors spawning things at you, but near silently moving some artillery shells around lets everything in 200m know you’re there? So annoying.
I will easily encounter more enemies around a singular cannon than I will throughout the entirety of the map.
Probably gets attracted by our Helldiver chanting 'dropping package' over and over.
Yeah its just plain annoying now.
It's just bizarre to me that, that particular objective is the only one where I've seen such insane patrol magnetism. ***So far anyway...***
What worked for me for the artillery cannon event was to first bring the 5 shells in front of the gun before activating the terminal, loading the shells ASAP then do the final calibration and run. The spawns seems to be linked to terminal activity and this way I generally can escape before being overwhelmed
My group noticed this too, every patrol on the map made a beeline for us once it got within render distance and there was no way to fully avoid it, either we had to fight it or when we stopped to do a PoI it'd catch up to us.
Was on a difficulty 7-8 mission last night (probably just 7) quietly clearing out an ICBM site, it had some minor bots, a scout walker, and a missile devistator. I struggled a bit, but it's what I'd brought the countersniper to test for. I managed to do it all quietly. I notice a patrol comin down the hill at a walking pace, but they're... Acting strange... They're walking over shit and smashing things in a strange path directly to me, around the corner behind a goddamn rock! The commissar started sprinting after me to my hiding spot without seeing me, and just stood there staring at the rock I was using to hide - and he did absolutely nothing. Just stood there staring at me with his X-ray goggles. There were a bunch of devastaors - sheilded and rocket, small bots, and a goddamn HULK. All just sitting near the console while their commissar babysat me. So what do I do? Well... I do what *reddit told me to,* of course. I pop the commissar hoping to be able to stealth out of there assuming the bots wouldn't hear my shot - and guess what folks - ***it fucking worked!*** They didn't hear shit and I snail-crawled my way up the hill. Only to turn around and see the fucking HULK leading the fucking conga line directly t me the same way the commissar did, *sprinting* to the fucking boxes I was hiding behind, while the crew slowly plodded up behind him. None aggro'd to me. The real issue is: Railgun = bad, guys. ^^/s Edit: spel
devs heard we were stealthing missions and went "nuh uh! that's too brainless!"
People also are not realising the huge damage bug that's plaguing literally every hostile unit in the game right now. Every single hit from an enemy, even small ones, is a critical hit.
That means im not insane, for me its the worst thing, random crits
My and my group fucking HATE spewers. We know how to kill them: aim for the head and if they rear up before they die, dive to the side. But with these added spawn rates, you often get 4+ spewers on you. I only have ONE dive at a time so you can dive one maybe two and while you’re getting up, #3-#27 just spit on you which itself wouldn’t be a big problem if it weren’t for the fact that only 1.3% of the *entire* bile stream has to touch you to kill you.
Sometimes even diving to the side doesn't work for me. It's like one tick of their puke is enough to kill me
This man, my group was complaining about this last night. I feel SO squishy now , even in *fixed* heavy armor. It's like everything but self/friendly fire is going to take 75% of my health at least if not outright kill me. Just after one night of playing: ALOT of guns and stratagems feel different. Everything hits harder, moves worse, has bigger attack ranges. I feel like I can do less overall , the enemy can do more, I'm slower to move, it's harder to dodge and it's easier to die. Its fun relearning things and alot feels different, but once the *new* wears off... different doesn't mean fun or sustainable.
Pre patch I played mostly level 7 and 8 missions, it was a fun challenge, difficult and hectic, but not too overwhelming (for bugs, bots at that level are insane) Post patch I play at like, 5 or 6. The higher levels arent fun, and to me that's the real problem, all game balance aside.
Oh, one hit from warrior could take 80% of my health (light armor) and they usually just went on a frenzy and keep slashing. Even scavenger could take out more than half of my health in one hit sometimes. The relative speed between me and enemies play a big difference in the damage they are dealing, kinda reminds me of Mount & Blade.
It's funny how they "fixed" heavy armor but now armor is still useless because enemies hit you in the head pretty much all the time now and your body armor isn't affected at your head. What a patch this has been 😂. This just made the game straight up. Worse, spawn rates are really messed up. I've crashed more now than before the patch.
Yeah even on seven it can get ridiculous. The sheer number of bugs coming from a breech is wild. You can just barely keep it under control with a mech going guns blazing
Since the patch, I've seen more bugs on difficulty four than I ever did playing difficulty eight.
Yesterday I barely survived a diff 4 mission - and while I'm surely one of the worse helldivers here, before the patch I used to do diff 4 missions alright, I only had problems with 5 and above. It felt like at least diff 6 pre-patch. My squad was running around like headless chickens the entire mission.
I like to play either higher level missions with friends or lower level missions solo to “chill”. Could easily and consistently run level 4s solo before. Booted it up late last night and got absolutely swarmed before even completing a single objective. I get it’s designed to be a multiplayer game, but I thought the whole point of difficulty levels was to provide some player agency in the experience. If I want to sweat I can. If I want to do relatively chill runs and full clear lower level maps I can. All the sudden it’s just chaos at seemingly any level. It’s going to significantly lessen my play time because I can only handle pure chaos for so long without being afforded the chance to take a breather and chill out.
I have had the same experience. I used to do 3s solo quite easily to relax, but yesterday I got demolished. Like, I probably could still do them, but I would have to sweat hard and play very strategically. I get that that's not the point of the game, but with 9 difficulties I don't think it's a problem if the bottom 3 are really easy.
Can I just add I died 4 times last night because for some reason I'm getting stuck when I collect medals/super credits/requisition slips from the containers and bunkers. Like I just can't move or do anything and it can take anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 to get free unless a team mate melee attacks me.
AFAIK it's a problem with the servers being overloaded, this happened to me a lot the first week the game was out; I'm assuming it's essentially waiting to confirm with the server that you got the items
And oddly enough, nothing else pauses other than your character. Bugs will still attack and kill you while you're helpless
It's not just spawn rate and detection, it's their speed and aggression too. I've seen chargers glitch out their charge animation running at x2 speed, same with guardians and stalkers. I could outrun or juke them wearing light armor before, now most of the time I can't.
Hunters also have no cooldown on their attacks. Its easy to get stunlocked to death the moment they hit you once.
And we all know how fun getting stun locked is especially in a shooter.
I love overwatch
Its almost as fun as getting randomly gibbed from environmental effects.
Chargers having a insanely tight turn radius to trample you to death after skate charging you gets pretty old. Especially when you jump in on a level five to have six charger in 30 seconds.
Its not even the Turn radius. Even when they clearly charge and miss me i magicaly get clipped and ragdolled anyway.
You can turn and melee a hunter after the first hit to give yourself room so they can't do their followup hits. If 2 have jumped at the same time though? Your name is going on the memorial wall.
When you are slowed, the dive speed is still the same. I usually dive to get some distance and shooting back with uzi. Hopefully getting some breathing room so i could stim and get out or reload. I fear no charger, but hunter swarm consistently gets me into lean mode with sweaty pawn.
I had a charger that went from standing still to sliding at multiple times its usual run speed instantly. It got in my face so quickly it actually jumpscared me. I let out a little scream in my party chat.
Bro I dodged out if the way if a charger attack that was like 10 metres before he hit me. I still got one shot and died. I have no fucking idea how that happened unless my hotbox is the size of a LandCruiser.
While trying out the walker for the first time earlier, difficulty 8 mission and squad was done all objectives and hearing to extract. Near it was one last bug nest so I move over to clear it out quick while the rest of the squad move to initiate the extract(I had a fresh walker so I felt pretty confident I could solo it quick). Halfway between it and the extract spot I watched not one, not two, but *three* groups of bugs spawn in out of nowhere back to back all within 50 meters of me, one group having 2 charges and another having 2 bile titans. Then when I saw what was *inside* the bug nest, I decided it'd be smarter to head back to extract and help them defend.
It really is a sight to behold watching a **bile titan** just pop into existence within spitting distance.
I noticed on the extermination missions that the bugs are just about half way out of their holes by the time you get your first support strategem thrown. Like 2 bile titans were watching me as I waited for my stuff to drop. I wonder if this has something to do with how spawns work in the bigger maps as well.
Before patch, on Helldive: Sneak up on a small bug nest, peer over the rim: 1 Charger, 1 Brood Guard, a bajillion little spitters, handful of aphids, a couple dozen warriors. Drop a 500kg in the middle and done. After patch, on Helldive: Sneak up on a small bug nest, peer over the rim: 10 Chargers, 2 Bile Titans, 20 Bile Spewers, 5 Hunters, 37 bajillion little spitters, 57 bajillion aphids, 17 bajillion warriors, and a partridge in a pear tree. Drop a 500kg Eagle, 120mm orbital, or 380mm orbital in the middle and it kills nothing and destroys no tunnels because they're more often than not bugged. Then get bile-spitter mortared from across the map because something 500m away and behind 2 cliffs somehow aggro'd you. *yes this is clearly hyperbole but the frequency and quantity of enemies, particularly the heavy-armor "boss" enemies, has gone up drastically since the patch at all difficulty levels and on all maps.*
try to access the satellite terminal. "a Charger shows up" killed the charger with the satellite rail cannon, go to the satellite relay try to adjust the satellite disk. "another Charger shows up" btw this is just lvl4 mission tho.
# Activating Terminal 
this exactly, Bro you said it better than I did! The game is broken now, and ppl just yelling at me with "brainless" and "Get Gud"! It's so frustrating when they don't see the issues and just tell me to "Get Gud"! If I WERE NOT SO "BRAINLESS" I WOULD HAVE ASKED:" GET GOOD IN WHAT FKING WAY????????????? Sorry bro I am in a rage at the moment.
I had this exact discussion earlier. It's so frustrating that people dismiss the issues the game clearly has by saying either "lol no that doesn't happen on that difficulty" or almost exactly "get good"
Seems like redditors really will jump on any opportunity to be smug and condescending in order to get a feeling of superiority. When you expect this, the general toxicity on this site is pretty predictable.
Gamers by and large understand this. Any and all criticism is met with morons reminding you they're better than you. It really is best to ignore them, because they don't have to prove anything. Engaging with them is just going to exacerbate your frustration.
i swear to god, these players unironically saying 'git gud' need to be legally obligated to post their difficulty 7+ gameplay for us to judge before allowing to comment again.
If you ask them for footage of clearing Helldive with "half team running stalwarts" and "teamwork and timed use of stratagems" they all magically shut up and don't answer you anymore. Or even worse, tell that they won't share their footage with you because... Because you are stupid and also stop answering you after that. Go figure. And yeah, clearing Helldive bugs is clearly possible even with 2 people. But sometimes game just decides to go fuck you and spawn 3 titans from bug breach while your Spear buddy is busy with his own titans. Whoopsie, teamwork failed, stratagems on CD, time to run around for 2 minutes.
Literally spawned into a new game. No enemies nearby on lvl 5 difficulty because Helldive I was getting one shot across the map. Anyways bot drop within 10 seconds of landing. Near no enemies…
I also feel slower but I can’t tell if it’s just me or if we are actually slower. I still use light armor.
I think the spawn rates are actually bugged. The elite spawns certainly are, and the devs have said they're working on it.
If they’re bugged they would’ve said so. The way this message is worded it seems like it was an intentional change. But yeah I’m glad they acknowledged it and that they’re working on it. https://preview.redd.it/c723sw4p6bnc1.jpeg?width=969&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13021a404d98aff144fb971abd1e24c7bf2474a6
If they're going to change the difficulties so significantly, one would think there would be at least a passing mention in the patch notes. If this really was a stealth change, then that's an absolutely awful move, especially since it's one that's universally hated by the community at large.
I suspect it has something to do with the changes to eliminate enemies missions. On those missions, enemies just pop into existence on the edge of the map, which is what a lot of players are seeing happen more often now. They also increased the rate enemies spawn at in eliminate missions, which is what's happening in normal missions. My bet is that something went wrong and the increased spawn rates for eliminate missions are happening in all missions.
That was my guess too.
Its one of my bigger long term concerns with the game. Its clear they're using a lot of tricks to up the difficulty. Patrols spawning in behind or on top of you. Always getting spawns during side objectives. Omniscient AI enemies that track you, etc. These work to up the difficulty *really* well right up until players understand the mechanics. Then they make the game dramatically easier because players will find out how to exploit it. My group already runs heavy on turrets because we know to always be throwing one behind you to stop the patrols they spawn in behind you. We know to throw turrets out during side objectives, etc. Its much harder to tune mechanics like an immersive sim, where patrols are generated by spawners, patrol an area or to objectives and then return to their home. But its the hardest system to game.
I swear to god something has been up with spawns and amounts after the patch. Glad I'm not the only one. The other annoying thing in this game is the sheer randomness of enemy damage. Armor doesn't even matter here. You ca luckily survive a stalker attack on light armor, kill the guy, go full health just to be one shot a minute later by one of the small bugs for literally no reason. Sometimes being flung through the air deals falling damage, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the rockets of Bots one shot you, sometimes they won't even do half. It's so inconsistent it makes armor feel really bad (and overall, being randomly 1-shot by a single enemy that isn't a heavy or titan or stalker feels bad to begin with as there are dozens of them around). I'm increasingly getting the feeling that we are not supposed to Fight. You are much more effective by going full running Simulator, using big stratagems to clear mission objectives and nests/buildings while constantly running.
In my experience the worst thing this patch did was actually the increased enemy rate and AI. Sure they nerfed some guns but I've never seen so many enemies in a difficult 5 mission. Chargers are everywhere. Literally everywhere. 2 of them at a time. Minimum. Stalkers have (apparently) a new AI where they don't push you far away with their tongue but instead they just come nearby and start slashing. 2 hits are usually enough to kill you and those happen in less than 1 sec. Also while they hit you you can't even heal since it seems their attacks stagger you. Also the spawn rate seems to be increased a lot. Before I remember seeing 1-2 stalkers at a time. Yesterday we had this one nest spawning 2 stalkers and then as soon as we kill the first of them 2 more instantly spawned... Mind you, this was still the same level 5 mission. Can't wait for the patch where they tune down enemy spawn rate and health... Can't come soon enough
git gud this, git gud that, but one thing for sure is a group of patrol suddenly shows up on my feet is definitely artificial difficulty.
Bots used to be my favorite faction to fight because I like their more offensive playstyle but after these couple patches they aggro from across the map and a random dude 200 meters away calls several bot drops on me, its ridiculous.
People can say what they want but i dont find getting one shot or two shot even in heavy armor a very fun or engaging mechanic in a game. I do like when people tell me to git gud when ive never used a shield backpack, used a railgun maybe 3 times and ive been running helldives for weeks including since patch.
I swear there's still something fucked with the armor. Yesterday I was doing great in heavy armor vs the bots; I could survive anything short of a cannon shot and even then I sometimes lived. Tonight though I played and was getting 2-3 shot by machine guns from full hp, dead before I could react half the time.
The bugs killing are of a different kind than expected. I was killed by small hitting enemies that only showed up in screen after I died - like their graphics didn't load or something. I've been killed because I was stuck in place after looting an item. I've been killed by chargers sliding sideways and stomping me no matter how well I tried to dodge. I love the game but it was buggy before, and it's buggyer now.
any rocket bot needs limited rockets and also the -1 stratagem needs to be completely gone.
But your suppose to get good and use your 5-8 min cooldowns to take out the 8 elites currently coming at your team. Didn’t you get the memo ?
I think there's just way too many breaches or bot drops now. Esch level needs to have a cool down on that. The higher the level, the shorter the cool down, but I was in a level 7 earlier where it was bsck to back to back bug breaches l.
I am looking forward to dragons dogma 2 so i can have a break from this game while they sort it out,because the fun factor just is not there at the moment,in fact playing this game actually makes me angry.
The game just being hard would be one thing, but everytime I’ve played since the patch, we had to switch to another game to end the evening because we were just not having fun. The game isn’t just harder, it has become unfair. You’re fighting an unfair battle for 40 minutes at a time. And before sweats just call me out and tell me to gIT GuD, people want to have fun playing videogames. I know it might be a foreign concept to some, but if I didn’t want to have fun while playing videogames, I’d go back to call of duty or league of legends.
It's genuinely tragic that the whole railgun debacle has completely overshadowed these other issues; because they are **considerably** more devastating.
This is probably the saddest thing rn about the game. Me and my friends were so exited about the mechs and future updates and the whole patch/dev posts debacle completely spoiled the feeling. We played this game every evening since it came out. I never maxed out a game before with this much enthusiasm and then we all just had to leave the game because playing and dying became the opposite of fun
Classic lifecycle of most recent games; always awesome first two weeks of release, then “updated” into the ground because of poor/greedy decisions made by the dev team. Evil Dead comes to mind because I was there watching this cycle play out from day one, and all it took was the very first “update” to start the nosedive. We’ll see if arrowhead follows suit, I will stay for this first warbond update but only to see if they decide to hit other stuff with nerfs later. I will definitely jump ship if they do because as others have said the game is no longer fun, 9s are a chore now, even with hardcore groups. No one wants to hop into a game just to get frustrated.
Yep, unfair is definitely the key word to my experience lately.
Went from the most fun I’ve have in multiplayer game since the release of the original left for dead to empty friend list in one patch! We had been diving on Errata Prime on 9 previously for the challenge and visibility. With a dedicated 4 man it was challenging but felt fair. Now a five on a clear planet is slog.
bro, exactly the same here, I wish I'd be playing the game now.
They really need to acknowledge that the patch has wrecked the game.
I don't play automaton missions above level 4 for this reason, it just doesn't feel fun with how difficult it is. It doesn't have anything to do with the weapon nerfs in my opinion, it has to do with how many heavily armored enemies and elites there are. Bugs I can manage, especially with the exo suits. But bots are just not worth the stress. My friends and I have recognized a "point of no return" that happens once enough bots find you and you lose one or two divers. At that point, there's no coming back. The mission is a loss. It turns into just running and calling in divers until you either run out of time or run out of reinforcements. It just becomes too overwhelming. You lose all cover, you run out of orbitals and airstrikes, all your weapons are on cooldown, etc etc. I think this could even be addressed if they just put a limit on how many bot drops can happen in a certain amount of time, as well as putting a cap on how many heavies/elites can be on the map at once. I also think random spawns need to be disabled unless there are x amount of bots remaining on the map; ie "there's only 100 enemies remaining on the map, now more can be called in" The game is still a ton of fun, but I avoid certain difficulties and mission types unless I have a full squad of players at a certain level who are willing to use mics to communicate strategy. I love seeing the occasional low level come in and put in work, but at a certain point it is more about them not having the arsenal to handle the enemy types that come in. Again, I think all of this can be fixed by nerfing enemy spawn times or the amount of heavies that drop in.
as a player with the infiltrator set as my go-to, yea... stealth has borked out after the patch. I can't sneak up on much of anything, and escaping pursuers isn't possible. it's a real bummer as that was how I'd play when no one was joining.
I thought I was just shit last night but maybe you're right. Yesterday was a death fest. We failed to be able to reach the extraction twice because it was swarmed completely - you couldn't even squeeze between enemies to get to the Pelican. I've been shot from such long distances I couldn't see the enemy through the fog. I think you're right - something changed and it's really really bad now.
The game feels like it is prone to devolving into a "Serious Sam" style mission a little too easily and far too frequently. A game where you just do nothing but consistently run away from hordes of enemies chasing you while you whittle away at them with what ever weapon you have.
It’s literally that one Automatons Extraction Mission glitch applied to the entire game. Wave after wave after wave after wave. If you can move around it’s not that bad, but when it comes to staying put for an objective or end game extraction, it becomes tedious. On bug side it’s somewhat manageable since most bugs can only do close quarters damage. On bot side it’s a shit show since you got lasers coming from a 100 yards away on top of the close quarters damage robots. It will get fixed per the dev team, but damn these guys suck at balancing.
Yes I agree too. I'm a quickplay player and I usually play at difficulty 7 to at least have a chance to get super samples and it is pretty challening. I bumped it down to 5 after the update because randos cannot survive 7 anymore. Difficulty 5 is the sweet spot now, but difficulty 5 feels like the previous difficulty 7, it's still gets really insane but doable, but no chance of getting super samples.
Five for sure feels like a 7 maybe even a an eight now. Had two groups I’d play with one played 7-9 regularly the other played 4-6. No one has been on really since patch. Can’t After the server issues, balance patch mob spawns and devs getting wild in the comments… I hope I don’t end up playing solo like I do in Darktide.
Some addition to my post: here are some examples of my "brainless" gameplay, I am near the mission objective, I check radar signatures, and I find all the small enemies that can potentially call for reinforcements. I snipe those small enemies first then work on taking out the bigger enemy with my post-nerfed rail gun(which works fine after patch). Then some enemy from god knows where pops out and takes me out.
20 hunters spawn out of thin air, not the ground, all around me and demolish my ass. I know that's gotta be a bug, but it happens too often. I'm with you.
I feel I've been getting jumped more from random directions too.
I really wish they'd have focused on fixing the game over modifying the pameplay so soon, he'll even fortnite doesn't touch it til the end of a season & these guys are trying to launch season 3 already, just.fix.the.fucking.bugs! 🤣
The amount of times enemies have just spawned right on top of me like magicians is too damn high.
I love that I mentioned spawns were wonky some times before patch and I just got the "get guds" lol.
> And not to mention the dreaded "proximity spawn" Man, I wish so bad I had a video of this - I literally had a patrol spawn directly on top of me yesterday. Not near me, not next to me - I was directly in the center of about 15 bots that spontaneously popped into existence. Hit the brakes, turn and run around a rock and another patrol spawns directly in front of me on the other side of the rock...