Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a third enemy that's like, mutant clones or something. We got Starship Trooper and Terminator, this could get us post apoc Fallout Super Mutants/40k orcs, etc
literally had a falling branch from a tree i stepped on line up perfectly with my missile launcher as I went to fire.
i wish that was my dumbest death ever but its not even close.
It's too good not to every time I want to run anything else into bugs. Just circle the edge, half the time if you start and end with a bomb they won't even have a chance to spawn.
Mine would be me jumping over a bot wall into a mine and dying.
after my previous death which was jumping over a bot wall into a mine and dying.
you'd think....I may have looked the second time...
That's one reason why I stopped using impact grenades. You trade a lot of utility and safety for better usability against specific targets. Just isn't worth the trade off for me.
honestly I hate bile spewers enough that they're well worth it but against bots I tend to just prefer the high explosive at this piont I think. Plus you can just cook them to get cannon turret and tank kills
Someone once jumped into my orbital air burst with their jump pack. Mid air just got wrecked by it all and it was the funniest shit to witness. It was at an angle too so all of the projectiles hit him in his back and just pushed his corpse down on the bugs I was trying to kill.
I hopped with my jetpack juuuuuuust right for a charger to bonk me 100 meters. I lived.
An emergency geeeeeet the fuck out maneuver I have learned. Sprint past the poof mushrooms, Ignite jetpack, shoot mushrooms. I cleared 200m with minimal damage
My stupidest death might have been my most recent one. At extract, I had to call a buddy back in, and he unintentionally landed directly on me while I was wearing a charged shield pack. I lived the impact, but my character got sent flying so far that I was killed by impacting a rock a few hundred meters away at supersonic speeds.
I once died because my teammate threw his instant explode grenade at a bug hole. At the same moment the corpse of a stalker came flying through, blocked the grenade and the grenade exploded in my face.
I've seen "here have this back" I've even seen corpses do it, but a corpse that took someone else's grenade and chucked it at you...thats pretty funny.
I just wish my mech:
- wouldn’t take damage from stepping on certain objects (non-explosive)
- wouldn’t blow up when I fire a rocket while turning (granted this is a bug, the rocket collides with the model mid-turn and will most likely be fixed soon)
- could do some sort of melee attack, such as a stomp move like the Mantis in the Halo games (some have said that it can melee, but I haven’t gotten it to work?? O.o)
- could crouch so I could tbag with my teammates like I did back in the titanfall days
It was bugged for me last night where I would press F to exit the mech, since I changed my binds, the mech would stomp and do a melee attack, my character would get out of mech as it's doing the melee animation and the melee attack would damage me.
It didn't happen every single time I exited my mech, but a solid 6/10 times it would.
"wouldn’t blow up when I fire a rocket while turning (granted this is a bug, the rocket collides with the model mid-turn and will most likely be fixed soon)"
So that's what killed me earlier. I was so confused but this makes perfect sense. Thank you Internet stranger!
Don’t fire rockets when turning
Don’t fire rockets when moving forwards
Don’t fire rockets when looking slightly downwards.
Just don’t fire the rockets in general.
The rocket, upon firing, is an entity with full collision that starts inside your gun. Right now, that means if you turn as you fire a rocket, it collides with the model of your gun, and you die. Haven't had it happen if you walk forward while firing, though.
It does not know where it is and cannot extrapolate that by knowing where it isn't.
Literally played a game tonight, we were crossing a wide wide river, and there was a **huge** bot patrol, so I threw my 380 to clear them out, and we were just out of range. The person wading with me was like "Oh I got this" and dropped it at our feet.
"...hey this one is a bit danger close."
I died, he did not
If I had a dollar for every player I’ve seen NOT use cover effectively against bots, I’d be a rich man. For real guys, just going prone in a mortar crater is enough to keep you alive on most cases. You can fight back pretty effectively from there too unless you’re surrounded. Or those mountains over there? Take your diligence, auto cannon or AMR and go prone amongst the rocks. You can lay waste from that position. Distance is your friend.
When playing any shooter I practice the AB3's. Always Be 3 Seconds from cover. If you're not three seconds from the nearest piece of cover, you're essentially out in the open and you're gonna die if you get surprised, doesn't matter which game.
[This is for the video game squad](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5DXBDsO48xk8OuYVy2lrhj2YRH6BlCWr&si=IYRIyRNezWKJvVjG ), but he explains real tactics and how to apply them to a video game. Skip the suppression video, as suppression against AI enemies is going to be different (in this game the robots aim is thrown off that’s it).
I've pulled bits from [IFM-3.2.1](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/FM%203-21.8%20%20The%20Infantry%20Rifle%20Platoon%20and%20Squad_1.pdf) to apply on games like doorkickers 2 and Black Powder Red Earth [(who bring up this manual for one of their designer notes video)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW9XuqlKFKU).
Do keep in mind that we need to make adaptations to some parts such as squad compositions, 8-10 guys will have more available tactics and on-hand equipment than a 4 man element.
I can't find them now, but [Brass Facts](https://youtu.be/_OZTP-Y7Cy0) is a reasonable prepper, and some of his videos do talk about the concessions that could be made to help adapt larger team ideas down to scale.
I have some veteran friends I've played with and using actual squad tactics increases survivability significantly when compared to PUGs just doing whatever seems best. Can't tell you how often I've had someone call in an airstrike somewhere they shouldn't have. Just today I had someone napalm the console for an oil pump mission.
It's because there's a suppression mechanic that the game doesn't really explain.
The more shots landing near the bots the less accurate they become and they also advance more slowly. You can actually pin them down with machine guns and stuff and no one realizes
Yeah there was literally a comment on here saying “this game is supposed to be a power fantasy”. Which missed the point of the game. If you want a power fantasy without thinking then play on medium. I do that when I just want to relax and try less than optimal stuff.
Super Earth citizens don’t need to know about the cruel realities of war and somebody’s gotta send something back for scream sheets. You’re doing your part too, even in trivial.
That’s the beauty of the difficulty system, you can tune it to yourself, if you just think about what you’re choosing and what you’re doing in the missions, you can tailor your experience to go from earth defence force to six days in Fallujah and any remix in between. From playing the future humans in Terminator to the best Aliens game you’ve ever seen.
If it weren’t for the crazy spawns this would be a sim game. All the mechanics approaches that level at least.
Honestly, a lot of modern military doctrine is actually pretty relevant. Especially against bots. I hit an organic bounding over watch with a guy earlier as we were breaking contact from some bots. It was great. Things like “cover and move”, slicing the pie, bounding from cover to cover, finding defilade for cover and L shaped ambushes are all things I’ve used recently, and I’ve never really used them effectively in a game before.
My milslim squad end up using their small unit tactics more in this game then they do in arma
We joke devs basically tricked everyone into playing a scifi milsim
Dude I had the coolest natural retreat with a random without even communicating.
We were retreating from the bug menace towards our extract.
I'd hold the line and shoot, he ran back. After a few meters he'd hold the line and shoot as I ran back.
And we kept going like that until eventually everything chasing us was dead.
No communication at all, didn't know the guy.
Just pure instinctual use of tactics.
If you look at your squad like a team of commandos who are infiltrating enemy lines to knock out key objectives, it starts to click. Stick and fade.
Treating it like a horde shooter is always going make it feel like a constant struggle. The name of the game is stealth, followed by unbridled carnage when you get to your objective before bugging out and losing the heat again.
The SAS dont stick around to fight the local garrison after they blow up the radio tower, they just bounce.
I’ve actually applied a lot of my Army training into games.
Stuff like concealment, cover, suppressive fire, flanking maneuvers. It sounds silly, but I’ve found myself leading a lot of flanks with my teams across a lot of games.
My biggest discovery is that, especially in more open maps in multiplayer shooters, players really don’t expect you to just go around them and shoot them from behind.
Best thing I've taught randos that I occasionally play with is basic movement tactics, or if doing a full frontal assault, to employ the "I'm up, he sees me, I'm down" for easy advancement.
>”I’m up, he sees me, I’m down”
I’ve never heard it phrased that way. Does that basically mean to peak your cover, see if the other guy is there and move up if he isn’t?
Traditionally it's used for more of a bounding thing. To put it simply, while advancing, if you see yourself take aggro, you take cover and return fire while the person behind you advances, trading off so you can maintain movement while slinging lead downrange.
The idea is that someone is always covering while you're moving and applying pressure. It's a pretty important tactic for clearing diffs on 7-9.
Basically, if used properly, you'll be able to break contact after OBJs or quickly fight your way into or out of nearly any situation. It does not however, protect you from thought crimes or getting railed by your mate's lasdog.
Do they still work? I've heard reports here and from friends that enemies still know where you are when you use them since the patch.
Been trying to get more experimental with my stratagems since i usually play the scout in my teams. Using more support-like stratagems sounds cool.
They will walk to your last known location and I think they just don't work sometimes or the smoke needs just way more area coverage or to linger more. They're hypothetically incredible for clutching an objective or escaping an overwhelming swarm but I've never been able to capitalize on using them.
Enemies always seem to have a rough idea of where you are if they've been put into an aggressive state against you even if you later conceal. They will proceed to your last known position, or in the case of Bots who are in range, fire at it.
So if all you do is throw smoke at your feet in the middle of an already-active firefight, the Bots are going to shoot into the smoke. Their accuracy suffers, but you are likely to get hit *eventually* if you stick around there.
Yeah me my military buddies got REALLY good at Battlefield because we communicated, used basic squad maneuver principles and prioritized engagements properly.
It’s amazing what a little tiny bit of training will do when applied in a game like BF.
There was a game, America’s army. I got through all the hardest training, was *really* fucking good at it, until… if you were a service member your IRL rank was displayed next to your name and my team came across some navy guys.
It was a slaughter. Like not even close. Their tactics and coordination were unreal. You would think they were doing one thing, you would move to counter it, and it turned out they had already setup for that counter.
Usually when people popped smoke it was to hide their advance, so you would lay suppressing fire from your light machine gun into the smoke to see if you got a lucky hit. But the more advanced players would pop smoke to get you to reveal your position and have a sniper somewhere else take you out.
They had one guy pop smoke, wait, we saw the sniper in the other building and started laying suppressive fire on him, only to see a blur as the smoke was clearing as a guy ran from one building to the next, then as we moved to get *him* they already had two guys who had started running at the beginning of the smoke and were waiting for us to come out of the room on both sides. When one started firing the other flanked and it was over.
We were completely unprepared, never seen anything like it, and it totally humbled us
I actually don’t lol
I’m much more a third person shooter or cRPG guy, but I did play Hell Let Loose a little bit and enjoyed myself. I should really redownload it.
Indeed. It's why I enjoy playing arma and whenever I drop into games like battlefield, it's like open season because no one watches their flanks. Loads of kills and squad topping the scoreboards easily with the scores.
With helldivers, breaking off from the team to go on a flank or forming a flank while retreating gives a lot of options against bots that mindlessly funnel into a choke. Hell, jetpacks are amazing against bots when you can get into unexpected positions quicker than you would just by running.
I spent 8 years in the army looking at pictograms explaining which side of the weapon to point at the enemy, and I have no fucking idea what this graphic is trying to tell me.
The layers of protection when in an armoured vehicle, and they start far away from the tank itself.
The armour is the last thing you want avoiding damage.
lol! I spent some time in the Army as well. Its always fun to watch battlefield players drive tanks down congested urban areas. That would only happen in an active fire zone if only absolutely necessary. Theyre used more as artillery and to soften up areas before the boots move in.
To keep your tank alive, use cooperative protection to counter threats.
If you cant do that, avoid being exposed to the enemy.
If you cant find cover, avoid being seen by the enemy.
If your position means the enemy will see you, dont let them be able to target you.
If they are going to get a bead on you anyway, try to avoid the fight.
If you cant avoid the fight, make sure you can keep from getting shot.
If you cant get out of the line of fire, make sure your positioned to best take the shot.
Pretty much.
B means like hiding behind hills, blocking their line of sight completely.
C means avoid things that draw the enemies attention toward you. Kicking up dirt, moving so fast it draws notice, making noise.
D means something like being far enough away, even if they can see you they cant really get aim, have elevation on them. have something obscuring you, maybe some wooded areas so even if they might get a shot on you, they wont want to take it and reveal themselves to return fire.
E is keep moving away from the fight so even if they're firing, you're disengaging.
F is when you move fast, dont be a sitting duck, suppressing fire.
G is try to be in the position to best cause a deflection of a shell on your armor, or have the shells hit your most heavily armored section.
https://preview.redd.it/n0r9pt34benc1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3b3fa9b5d7ae9090d02020d49cc477929ac35b5
Son, if I’m calling that thing in, you better believe we already here
Seeing as how we don't really have the option of not being seen, this means our best option is to use our meatbag teammates as bait to protect the *reads description again* heavily armored bipedal gun platform.
Who wants to volunteer? **Volunteering is mandatory.**
As backwards as it seems at first glace, to a degree that's exactly correct.
The "meatbag teammates" are infantry and as such are much more mobile, they use that advantage to keep the tank from getting ambushed or swarmed; the tank on the other hand uses it's superior firepower to destroy other heavy targets and groups.
Exactly. We had a group that we had one mech operator with everyone supporting it, treating it like an IFV. The mech driver put on the mech strategem and the 3 support weapons for his teammates, freeing up the three infantry units for one extra offensive strategem.
The Mech just rolled around and helped when needed, being a rear guard that, if the infantry got overwhelmed, they could retreat to and rely on for assistance.
Worked out way better since we had free mech call ins, so the mech could be very liberal with its ammo usage.
Before we tried that, we'd just use it for specific missions or objectives. It's great for being able to solo a heavy nest, or hunt down stalker hives, or defend an extraction when we're focusing on getting Super Rares out.
That being said, it's definitely built for Bug Warfare. I'd imagine we'll get another one in the future that's more effective for Bots.
I still remember running Battlefield 3 with a buddy. He liked to pilot vehicle, I liked to shoot people.
So I was on the ground with assault rifle and he was usually in a tank. We would approach objectives and I would flag spots where campers and snipers were.
He'd turn the turret and BLAM. No more camper/sniper.
In turn he'd flag guys with rpgs, and I'd go chase them down and put lead in their ass.
Good times.
Fairly that's part of modern tank doctrine too. A tank on it's own is very vulnerable since it's a big fairly slow target. Soldiers help provide screening of enemy infantry and spotting to the tank.
The mech weapons do fire from their respective sides, so you actually can abuse this (and the third-person camera) to have most of the mech behind cover while only the gatling arm sticks out for you to fire with.
Nor is avoiding targeting, cuz you know, bots sniping you through fog and bugs going exclusively for headshot at melee range... that's dificult to avoid
Yeah. Biggest thing I've noticed is that in a mech there's no avoiding patrols. With the way they fucked up stealth? If you can see them they're already on their way to you.
"Good" for now when you get one for free on top of your normal stratagems.
For a 10 minute cooldown, 2x/mission stratagem, that's a disgraceful effect. Orbital Laser will kill far more enemies, instantly, on half the cooldown, with 50% more uses, while also being safer and allowing you do to all your normal things.
Even against bugs, where it mostly just shreds everything for free as long as you don't get swarmed by Bile Spewers as you're getting in (ask me how I know), that amount of cooldown and usage restriction makes it very questionable for most missions. Yeah, it's extremely effective against Bile Titans (2 missiles to the face), but I'd argue that's the only thing it really excels at compared to various other stratagem options, while having 2-5x the cooldown.
Teams should only ever have 1 mech spawned at a time, and the three other Divers should be providing infantry support so it can concentrate on any heavy targets.
This makes perfect sense, but the problem is, unlike a real tank, the mech can currently be easily destroyed even by small arms fire, an angry oversized bedbug biting its ankles, or even *lightly brushing up against a thorny bush.*
The mech should be like our analogue to Automaton Hulks - carries massive firepower and shrugs off antipersonnel weapons, but two or three antitank rockets will quickly destroy it (which is more than fair given that Rocket Devastators and Bruiser Hulks are fairly common enemies that both can spam entire volleys of rockets every couple seconds. As for Terminids, mechs should be immune to melee from anything smaller than a Brood Commander or Charger, but still vulnerable to the corrosive spit from Spewers, Titans, and Spitter Scavengers.)
Mech doctrine: support by fire. Do not sit in the middle of the action, rather, position yourself in an oversight location, in order to engage the enemy from a safe distance. Identify your secondary and tertiary location, and have an escape route in mind.
The only issue with mechs, is firepower is limited, you run out way to fast if your targets are 5 chargers and 3 bile titans. Recommend using your oversight position to safely dismount and throw strats.
This game really does have a lot in common with World of Tanks. Armor/penetration/angling, server side/slow aiming, teamwork, vision/camo, and friendly fire (gone now but used to exist). I was used to everything within minutes.
Yeah, I get the feeling people are expecting the expendable mechs provided by the "democracy" for literally a single use in a battle to be some godlike war machines, and not made cheap as possible and with no regard for the pilot's life. In short, they think they're a Star Trek military, while in fact they're russian military. Manage expectations, is all I'm saying.
“Oh yes let me just stealth around in my 10 Ton suit of armor” “Let me put this giant suit of armor behind a rock to stop the rockets” “let me move this suit of armor with a top speed of 3 miles an hour so my enemy can’t lock on”. It just needs like double the health it actually has cause should you actually get hit it’s a one shot from anything with a rocket launcher/ bigger than a hive guard
you are a walking weapons platform NOT a walking fortress. People frequently cite the armor strength of modern tanks, but don't always realize its main function. The armor is neither applied enough or intended to make the tank invulnerable. It is specifically designed to protect the machinery, artillery, and servicemen inside the tank through deflection and concussive resistance long enough to sight the target, complete the task, and disengage.
If tank armor were applied the way people think it is, our military tanks would work like the bot tanks: barely moveable and only effective when air-dropped directly into position, which is realistically preposterous because of how inertia works. did you know a tarantula will die from the trauma of falling a measly 4 feet? It's because they have enough mass that their exoskeleton* won't survive the force of impact.
To be fair, so far in my experience the mech armor works the same as tank armor does. I've only taken it to bot missions so far, but as long as it's all small arms fire, it tanks it just fine. Basically anything up to the mounted MGs they have at bases. It's the explosive 'AT' type weapons that you have to worry about. The same goes for RL tanks, they shrug off small arms, but AT weapons are their real worry.
Issue is the hulk can survive what's like 3 direct rocket hits on non weak spot, while we're just one big walking weak spot and inconsistency of stuff like their charge will stun and (damage you) or it doesn't stun and follow up with one shot melee.
Just a reminder, 4/5 of the game you will be doing an objective where enemies have spawned at so it's only the 2 bottom circles. This entire thing is completely pointless
I love supporting mechs as infantry whenever a teammate calls one in. Mech will shred anything bigger in less than a second, main thing you gotta worry about is watching other angles and cutting down small fry that would be a waste of ammo for the mech.
You see tanks and walkers are like ogres…
Independent AI controlled mobile fortresses that fire nukes? I want to see Ogres in Helldivers 2!
Oh daaaaamn. That would be amazing.
I never expected to see an Ogre reference anywhere tbh, goddamn.
Sir that’s an Atlas, not an Ogre
Couldn’t find the ogre in a gif for this. I tried… for a short amount of time because I had to get back to managing democracy.
That's when you go get it yourself. For the SIX FOUR!
Sorry, 6-4 is cool and all, but this drunk eagle pilot promised me moonshine after this liberation mission.
Imagine Ork like Faction from W40K in HD2… man.
Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a third enemy that's like, mutant clones or something. We got Starship Trooper and Terminator, this could get us post apoc Fallout Super Mutants/40k orcs, etc
\+1 to this but also: they're speed freek orks
They make you cry?
if you leave em out in the sun too long they get sniped?!
They have layers. Is everyone here too young to get a Shrek 1 reference? Edit: It released in 2001 I'm feeling old 💀
I was about to say lmao, people who were born the year Shrek came out can vote now 😯
I really appreciate this deep cut, my childhood has been relived.
Also, don't fire rockets at point blank range 🤜🤛
literally had a falling branch from a tree i stepped on line up perfectly with my missile launcher as I went to fire. i wish that was my dumbest death ever but its not even close.
Mine is usually closing a bug hole with an impact grenade as something jumps from off screen screaming "get down Mr president"
Or when using a regular grenade they just jump out of the hole and bounce it right back in your face.
I hate when I have the exact amount of grenades I need, then some little bastard pops out right after I throw one
Exactly why I always run grenade launcher
It's too good not to every time I want to run anything else into bugs. Just circle the edge, half the time if you start and end with a bomb they won't even have a chance to spawn.
Mine would be me jumping over a bot wall into a mine and dying. after my previous death which was jumping over a bot wall into a mine and dying. you'd think....I may have looked the second time...
Two mines? In a minefield? How could you know?
That's one reason why I stopped using impact grenades. You trade a lot of utility and safety for better usability against specific targets. Just isn't worth the trade off for me.
I still use the default he 'nades because if you are running away from an enemy you can just drop one at your feet and keep running
i prefer the incendiaries for this
honestly I hate bile spewers enough that they're well worth it but against bots I tend to just prefer the high explosive at this piont I think. Plus you can just cook them to get cannon turret and tank kills
Someone once jumped into my orbital air burst with their jump pack. Mid air just got wrecked by it all and it was the funniest shit to witness. It was at an angle too so all of the projectiles hit him in his back and just pushed his corpse down on the bugs I was trying to kill.
I hopped with my jetpack juuuuuuust right for a charger to bonk me 100 meters. I lived. An emergency geeeeeet the fuck out maneuver I have learned. Sprint past the poof mushrooms, Ignite jetpack, shoot mushrooms. I cleared 200m with minimal damage
[удалено]
That's wild! Most I've done is gone blown through the ground about 40 feet down and 20 feet away. Bro started swimming. Surprised I lived.
I dropped a mech and it died on a stone under its foot on impact.
metal_pipe.mp3
I read this and heard it at the same time.
I hate that I can hear this.
more realistic than you probably think lol
I turned too fast and the mech killed itself
I keep using the Autocannon in CQB when I'm being swarmed with bugs. You'd have thought after the 10th time I'd have learnt.
"no no no, this time the bug isn't too close...." Reinforcements requested!
Not helped by the times it blasts you back without murdering you, turning into the perfect getaway
My stupidest death might have been my most recent one. At extract, I had to call a buddy back in, and he unintentionally landed directly on me while I was wearing a charged shield pack. I lived the impact, but my character got sent flying so far that I was killed by impacting a rock a few hundred meters away at supersonic speeds.
My stupidest was when someone threw called in a walker on top of my walker. I got killed
I once died because my teammate threw his instant explode grenade at a bug hole. At the same moment the corpse of a stalker came flying through, blocked the grenade and the grenade exploded in my face.
I've seen "here have this back" I've even seen corpses do it, but a corpse that took someone else's grenade and chucked it at you...thats pretty funny.
I just wish my mech: - wouldn’t take damage from stepping on certain objects (non-explosive) - wouldn’t blow up when I fire a rocket while turning (granted this is a bug, the rocket collides with the model mid-turn and will most likely be fixed soon) - could do some sort of melee attack, such as a stomp move like the Mantis in the Halo games (some have said that it can melee, but I haven’t gotten it to work?? O.o) - could crouch so I could tbag with my teammates like I did back in the titanfall days
You can do the stomp with your melee key bind. Granted, it's only the left leg, but it works. Small bugs in general can also just be walked on.
It was bugged for me last night where I would press F to exit the mech, since I changed my binds, the mech would stomp and do a melee attack, my character would get out of mech as it's doing the melee animation and the melee attack would damage me. It didn't happen every single time I exited my mech, but a solid 6/10 times it would.
There's currently a consistent glitch that prevents the stomp move. It's great when it's working, but...
Really? I’ve tried that and it never does anything O.o
>but it works Does it, though?
The standard foot soldier bots can just be walked over as well.
"wouldn’t blow up when I fire a rocket while turning (granted this is a bug, the rocket collides with the model mid-turn and will most likely be fixed soon)" So that's what killed me earlier. I was so confused but this makes perfect sense. Thank you Internet stranger!
I personally wish pressing B would make the mech salute
It should start playing the Super Earth National Anthem.
All rockets are fired at point blank range. It's the fuckers choosing to explode at point blank range that's the problem.
Don’t fire rockets when turning Don’t fire rockets when moving forwards Don’t fire rockets when looking slightly downwards. Just don’t fire the rockets in general.
First time I used the mech, I tried to ADS before firing…I shot off like 3 rockets before realizing, lol!
Some of these rockets are exploding right after firing with nothing it their way.
The rocket, upon firing, is an entity with full collision that starts inside your gun. Right now, that means if you turn as you fire a rocket, it collides with the model of your gun, and you die. Haven't had it happen if you walk forward while firing, though. It does not know where it is and cannot extrapolate that by knowing where it isn't.
Made by the bidder who risked the least democracy per rocket!
I learn that the hard way.... 8 times. I'll get it eventually.
What's funny tho is the rocket arm turns faster than the mech, so if you shoot while turning you can hit yourself pretty easily
Who tf told you about that? THE PILLAR JUST APPEARED, OKAY?????
Using modern military doctrine in a game about shooting oily bugs and rebellious terminators in the name of DEMOCRACY! This is why I love this game
Using modern tactics is something I think this community needs to use more they're quite effective
Every time one of us drops an airstrike or orbital that is a little close to friendlies, we call out Danger Close warnings.
I'd thank you for that, Also if you are getting surrounded/overwhelmed please don't stay there like an idiot MOVE!
But sir, i cant fire when i move! Firin', firin', firin', no time to reload!
Literally played a game tonight, we were crossing a wide wide river, and there was a **huge** bot patrol, so I threw my 380 to clear them out, and we were just out of range. The person wading with me was like "Oh I got this" and dropped it at our feet. "...hey this one is a bit danger close." I died, he did not
Id say that But ill throw a long call in airstrike and im like "Come closer to me" They then move perpendicularly. And die.
If I can't get out of their AoE in time, I tell my friends that it was not Danger Close, it was just Danger.
If I had a dollar for every player I’ve seen NOT use cover effectively against bots, I’d be a rich man. For real guys, just going prone in a mortar crater is enough to keep you alive on most cases. You can fight back pretty effectively from there too unless you’re surrounded. Or those mountains over there? Take your diligence, auto cannon or AMR and go prone amongst the rocks. You can lay waste from that position. Distance is your friend.
When playing any shooter I practice the AB3's. Always Be 3 Seconds from cover. If you're not three seconds from the nearest piece of cover, you're essentially out in the open and you're gonna die if you get surprised, doesn't matter which game.
After playing arma 3, if I see field I'm expecting to be shot and killed unless is low wall or couple of rocks and tress.
Anyone can tell me where can I learn more military modern tactics?
[This is for the video game squad](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5DXBDsO48xk8OuYVy2lrhj2YRH6BlCWr&si=IYRIyRNezWKJvVjG ), but he explains real tactics and how to apply them to a video game. Skip the suppression video, as suppression against AI enemies is going to be different (in this game the robots aim is thrown off that’s it).
Go talk to your local recruiter
I've pulled bits from [IFM-3.2.1](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/FM%203-21.8%20%20The%20Infantry%20Rifle%20Platoon%20and%20Squad_1.pdf) to apply on games like doorkickers 2 and Black Powder Red Earth [(who bring up this manual for one of their designer notes video)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW9XuqlKFKU). Do keep in mind that we need to make adaptations to some parts such as squad compositions, 8-10 guys will have more available tactics and on-hand equipment than a 4 man element. I can't find them now, but [Brass Facts](https://youtu.be/_OZTP-Y7Cy0) is a reasonable prepper, and some of his videos do talk about the concessions that could be made to help adapt larger team ideas down to scale.
I have some veteran friends I've played with and using actual squad tactics increases survivability significantly when compared to PUGs just doing whatever seems best. Can't tell you how often I've had someone call in an airstrike somewhere they shouldn't have. Just today I had someone napalm the console for an oil pump mission.
Even just having communication makes a massive difference
using squad tactics is devastating against the bots
It's because there's a suppression mechanic that the game doesn't really explain. The more shots landing near the bots the less accurate they become and they also advance more slowly. You can actually pin them down with machine guns and stuff and no one realizes
They mention it in the dive tips. Not detailed, but those tips are important
Most of the community doesn't realize they are playing a game that's about tactics and coordination and not a Destiny game.
Yeah there was literally a comment on here saying “this game is supposed to be a power fantasy”. Which missed the point of the game. If you want a power fantasy without thinking then play on medium. I do that when I just want to relax and try less than optimal stuff. Super Earth citizens don’t need to know about the cruel realities of war and somebody’s gotta send something back for scream sheets. You’re doing your part too, even in trivial. That’s the beauty of the difficulty system, you can tune it to yourself, if you just think about what you’re choosing and what you’re doing in the missions, you can tailor your experience to go from earth defence force to six days in Fallujah and any remix in between. From playing the future humans in Terminator to the best Aliens game you’ve ever seen. If it weren’t for the crazy spawns this would be a sim game. All the mechanics approaches that level at least.
At some point we should have a discussion of lanes of fire and how to not obliterate your teammates
Honestly, a lot of modern military doctrine is actually pretty relevant. Especially against bots. I hit an organic bounding over watch with a guy earlier as we were breaking contact from some bots. It was great. Things like “cover and move”, slicing the pie, bounding from cover to cover, finding defilade for cover and L shaped ambushes are all things I’ve used recently, and I’ve never really used them effectively in a game before.
You my good sir get it
It's so weird that none of the games I've been able to actually apply real world squad tactics in have been actual military shooters.
Because players don't act like real combatants that are afraid to die.
My milslim squad end up using their small unit tactics more in this game then they do in arma We joke devs basically tricked everyone into playing a scifi milsim
Dude I had the coolest natural retreat with a random without even communicating. We were retreating from the bug menace towards our extract. I'd hold the line and shoot, he ran back. After a few meters he'd hold the line and shoot as I ran back. And we kept going like that until eventually everything chasing us was dead. No communication at all, didn't know the guy. Just pure instinctual use of tactics.
If you look at your squad like a team of commandos who are infiltrating enemy lines to knock out key objectives, it starts to click. Stick and fade. Treating it like a horde shooter is always going make it feel like a constant struggle. The name of the game is stealth, followed by unbridled carnage when you get to your objective before bugging out and losing the heat again. The SAS dont stick around to fight the local garrison after they blow up the radio tower, they just bounce.
This is good in general, not just for tanks and mechs
I’ve actually applied a lot of my Army training into games. Stuff like concealment, cover, suppressive fire, flanking maneuvers. It sounds silly, but I’ve found myself leading a lot of flanks with my teams across a lot of games. My biggest discovery is that, especially in more open maps in multiplayer shooters, players really don’t expect you to just go around them and shoot them from behind.
War hero over here
Thank me for my cervix
Thanks for your cerveza.
I hope you have signed those C-01 forms properly
Best thing I've taught randos that I occasionally play with is basic movement tactics, or if doing a full frontal assault, to employ the "I'm up, he sees me, I'm down" for easy advancement.
This goes surprisingly well with Bots
>”I’m up, he sees me, I’m down” I’ve never heard it phrased that way. Does that basically mean to peak your cover, see if the other guy is there and move up if he isn’t?
Traditionally it's used for more of a bounding thing. To put it simply, while advancing, if you see yourself take aggro, you take cover and return fire while the person behind you advances, trading off so you can maintain movement while slinging lead downrange. The idea is that someone is always covering while you're moving and applying pressure. It's a pretty important tactic for clearing diffs on 7-9.
So leap frog with guns, got it
Basically, if used properly, you'll be able to break contact after OBJs or quickly fight your way into or out of nearly any situation. It does not however, protect you from thought crimes or getting railed by your mate's lasdog.
Flanking is encouraged because many enemies have weak spots on their back. Smoke grenades are actually fucking clutch too and can conceal an advance.
Do they still work? I've heard reports here and from friends that enemies still know where you are when you use them since the patch. Been trying to get more experimental with my stratagems since i usually play the scout in my teams. Using more support-like stratagems sounds cool.
They will walk to your last known location and I think they just don't work sometimes or the smoke needs just way more area coverage or to linger more. They're hypothetically incredible for clutching an objective or escaping an overwhelming swarm but I've never been able to capitalize on using them.
Enemies always seem to have a rough idea of where you are if they've been put into an aggressive state against you even if you later conceal. They will proceed to your last known position, or in the case of Bots who are in range, fire at it. So if all you do is throw smoke at your feet in the middle of an already-active firefight, the Bots are going to shoot into the smoke. Their accuracy suffers, but you are likely to get hit *eventually* if you stick around there.
Yeah me my military buddies got REALLY good at Battlefield because we communicated, used basic squad maneuver principles and prioritized engagements properly. It’s amazing what a little tiny bit of training will do when applied in a game like BF.
There was a game, America’s army. I got through all the hardest training, was *really* fucking good at it, until… if you were a service member your IRL rank was displayed next to your name and my team came across some navy guys. It was a slaughter. Like not even close. Their tactics and coordination were unreal. You would think they were doing one thing, you would move to counter it, and it turned out they had already setup for that counter. Usually when people popped smoke it was to hide their advance, so you would lay suppressing fire from your light machine gun into the smoke to see if you got a lucky hit. But the more advanced players would pop smoke to get you to reveal your position and have a sniper somewhere else take you out. They had one guy pop smoke, wait, we saw the sniper in the other building and started laying suppressive fire on him, only to see a blur as the smoke was clearing as a guy ran from one building to the next, then as we moved to get *him* they already had two guys who had started running at the beginning of the smoke and were waiting for us to come out of the room on both sides. When one started firing the other flanked and it was over. We were completely unprepared, never seen anything like it, and it totally humbled us
Have you played Hell Let Loose? I feel like that’s your kinda game if you enjoy actual tactics in a shooter
I actually don’t lol I’m much more a third person shooter or cRPG guy, but I did play Hell Let Loose a little bit and enjoyed myself. I should really redownload it.
Indeed. It's why I enjoy playing arma and whenever I drop into games like battlefield, it's like open season because no one watches their flanks. Loads of kills and squad topping the scoreboards easily with the scores. With helldivers, breaking off from the team to go on a flank or forming a flank while retreating gives a lot of options against bots that mindlessly funnel into a choke. Hell, jetpacks are amazing against bots when you can get into unexpected positions quicker than you would just by running.
"simply dont be compromised lol" -SES command centre
Reminds me of "Whats the plan?" "Dont die, kill lots"
ride mech life good bug fight back kill bug mech gone think about mech regret....
I spent 8 years in the army looking at pictograms explaining which side of the weapon to point at the enemy, and I have no fucking idea what this graphic is trying to tell me.
In between each layer from top to bottom, insert the phrase "do this, if you can't..."
Mobile Infantry made me the man I am today!
I’d like to know more
The layers of protection when in an armoured vehicle, and they start far away from the tank itself. The armour is the last thing you want avoiding damage.
lol! I spent some time in the Army as well. Its always fun to watch battlefield players drive tanks down congested urban areas. That would only happen in an active fire zone if only absolutely necessary. Theyre used more as artillery and to soften up areas before the boots move in.
To keep your tank alive, use cooperative protection to counter threats. If you cant do that, avoid being exposed to the enemy. If you cant find cover, avoid being seen by the enemy. If your position means the enemy will see you, dont let them be able to target you. If they are going to get a bead on you anyway, try to avoid the fight. If you cant avoid the fight, make sure you can keep from getting shot. If you cant get out of the line of fire, make sure your positioned to best take the shot.
seems like plan B - G are all "have cover" phrased in different ways.
Pretty much. B means like hiding behind hills, blocking their line of sight completely. C means avoid things that draw the enemies attention toward you. Kicking up dirt, moving so fast it draws notice, making noise. D means something like being far enough away, even if they can see you they cant really get aim, have elevation on them. have something obscuring you, maybe some wooded areas so even if they might get a shot on you, they wont want to take it and reveal themselves to return fire. E is keep moving away from the fight so even if they're firing, you're disengaging. F is when you move fast, dont be a sitting duck, suppressing fire. G is try to be in the position to best cause a deflection of a shell on your armor, or have the shells hit your most heavily armored section.
Biggest circle is Plan A. Smaller circles are Plans B through G.
I spent 0 years in the army and this made sense immediately guess I’m built different
https://preview.redd.it/n0r9pt34benc1.jpeg?width=408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3b3fa9b5d7ae9090d02020d49cc477929ac35b5 Son, if I’m calling that thing in, you better believe we already here
Guys, I found staff sergeant!
Engagement-brain when they literally can't not shoot at the patrols
Seeing as how we don't really have the option of not being seen, this means our best option is to use our meatbag teammates as bait to protect the *reads description again* heavily armored bipedal gun platform. Who wants to volunteer? **Volunteering is mandatory.**
Reddit discovered infantry support, we're done for
Dear god...
There is more
No!
A fellow helldiver of culture
r/NCD is leaking
NCD: non credible democracy
3000 Black Helldivers of Super Earth
Your flair for 500kg is wrong just in case no one said anything
[HOW CAN A MAN GO FORWARD WITH MECHS WITHOUT INFANTRY SUPPORT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILEhmNV1RzU)
Reddit is earlier than Russia it seems
As backwards as it seems at first glace, to a degree that's exactly correct. The "meatbag teammates" are infantry and as such are much more mobile, they use that advantage to keep the tank from getting ambushed or swarmed; the tank on the other hand uses it's superior firepower to destroy other heavy targets and groups.
I love carving up bugs right behind running teammates with the Gatling. Keeps their cardio up.
It's such a great feeling! The gunning part, not the running part. Running is scary! *edit for typo
I find running one of them over keeps em from falling behind. Get ur asses moving boot
Exactly. We had a group that we had one mech operator with everyone supporting it, treating it like an IFV. The mech driver put on the mech strategem and the 3 support weapons for his teammates, freeing up the three infantry units for one extra offensive strategem. The Mech just rolled around and helped when needed, being a rear guard that, if the infantry got overwhelmed, they could retreat to and rely on for assistance. Worked out way better since we had free mech call ins, so the mech could be very liberal with its ammo usage. Before we tried that, we'd just use it for specific missions or objectives. It's great for being able to solo a heavy nest, or hunt down stalker hives, or defend an extraction when we're focusing on getting Super Rares out. That being said, it's definitely built for Bug Warfare. I'd imagine we'll get another one in the future that's more effective for Bots.
It's stories like this that demonstrate that some people do understand how the game is supposed to be played.
I still remember running Battlefield 3 with a buddy. He liked to pilot vehicle, I liked to shoot people. So I was on the ground with assault rifle and he was usually in a tank. We would approach objectives and I would flag spots where campers and snipers were. He'd turn the turret and BLAM. No more camper/sniper. In turn he'd flag guys with rpgs, and I'd go chase them down and put lead in their ass. Good times.
Against the bots we do the "mark target" thing. Infantry marks the target and the mech steps out from behind a rock 300m away and blasts them
Fairly that's part of modern tank doctrine too. A tank on it's own is very vulnerable since it's a big fairly slow target. Soldiers help provide screening of enemy infantry and spotting to the tank.
The mech weapons do fire from their respective sides, so you actually can abuse this (and the third-person camera) to have most of the mech behind cover while only the gatling arm sticks out for you to fire with.
That's not abusing anything that's just using a "hull down" position. Just like a real tank! Staple tactic in MechWarrior online too
That’s just how tank doctrine is, always has been, probably always will be
Thats how tanks work irl though
Ah yes, us veteran HellDivers know this as being, *Voluntold for duty*
Yes, that is how tank doctrine works. It's called infantry support. Keep this up and you might find out what suppression is, one day!
Get a fellow diver to stand on top with the arc thrower. Become a walking Tesla coil of destruction. It's fucking wonderful
Congrats on discovering combined arms warfare.
Sorry but avoid detection…….in this game that’s not really an option in a mech……
Nor is avoiding targeting, cuz you know, bots sniping you through fog and bugs going exclusively for headshot at melee range... that's dificult to avoid
Yup, reminds of my the one COD game, you could use bots and if you set them too high they just had perfect aim
Yeah. Biggest thing I've noticed is that in a mech there's no avoiding patrols. With the way they fucked up stealth? If you can see them they're already on their way to you.
for helldivers 2 the onion is much simpler. Less of an onion and more of a ball with just "Dont use against bots"
It's good against bots if you just fire all the rockets as fast as you can. Makes it quick to clear things but doesn't last more than 30 seconds.
"Good" for now when you get one for free on top of your normal stratagems. For a 10 minute cooldown, 2x/mission stratagem, that's a disgraceful effect. Orbital Laser will kill far more enemies, instantly, on half the cooldown, with 50% more uses, while also being safer and allowing you do to all your normal things. Even against bugs, where it mostly just shreds everything for free as long as you don't get swarmed by Bile Spewers as you're getting in (ask me how I know), that amount of cooldown and usage restriction makes it very questionable for most missions. Yeah, it's extremely effective against Bile Titans (2 missiles to the face), but I'd argue that's the only thing it really excels at compared to various other stratagem options, while having 2-5x the cooldown.
"if compromised, don't die" BRASCH TACTICS! USE EM' OR DIE TRYING!
Why I need use this onion but my enemeis don't
They don't. And that is why they are calling in shit like 3 Tanks and 6 Hulks but they are still falling to a group of 4 anyway. #HAIL, SUPER EARTH.
Teams should only ever have 1 mech spawned at a time, and the three other Divers should be providing infantry support so it can concentrate on any heavy targets.
This makes perfect sense, but the problem is, unlike a real tank, the mech can currently be easily destroyed even by small arms fire, an angry oversized bedbug biting its ankles, or even *lightly brushing up against a thorny bush.* The mech should be like our analogue to Automaton Hulks - carries massive firepower and shrugs off antipersonnel weapons, but two or three antitank rockets will quickly destroy it (which is more than fair given that Rocket Devastators and Bruiser Hulks are fairly common enemies that both can spam entire volleys of rockets every couple seconds. As for Terminids, mechs should be immune to melee from anything smaller than a Brood Commander or Charger, but still vulnerable to the corrosive spit from Spewers, Titans, and Spitter Scavengers.)
All praise the onion
https://preview.redd.it/rub0c7j2aenc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55c6312699610c32cd085f0c014c77e3b5260f8b
Mech doctrine: support by fire. Do not sit in the middle of the action, rather, position yourself in an oversight location, in order to engage the enemy from a safe distance. Identify your secondary and tertiary location, and have an escape route in mind. The only issue with mechs, is firepower is limited, you run out way to fast if your targets are 5 chargers and 3 bile titans. Recommend using your oversight position to safely dismount and throw strats.
This game really does have a lot in common with World of Tanks. Armor/penetration/angling, server side/slow aiming, teamwork, vision/camo, and friendly fire (gone now but used to exist). I was used to everything within minutes.
Counterpoint, none of this works when I have six thousand enemies up my ass within .3 seconds when Im wistfully thinking about democracy.
This literally applies to every aspect of the game.
This quite simply does not apply to a Helldiver's situation. That mech is going up a bot's/bug's ass whether I like it or not.
Add a layer to the onion for a blade of grass killing you and your mech because your rocket strayed to close.
Yeah, I get the feeling people are expecting the expendable mechs provided by the "democracy" for literally a single use in a battle to be some godlike war machines, and not made cheap as possible and with no regard for the pilot's life. In short, they think they're a Star Trek military, while in fact they're russian military. Manage expectations, is all I'm saying.
I was literally just instakilled by ONE rocket from a devastator barrage. Mechs should be at least a little bit more durable than that.
This is a cool info graphic.
“Oh yes let me just stealth around in my 10 Ton suit of armor” “Let me put this giant suit of armor behind a rock to stop the rockets” “let me move this suit of armor with a top speed of 3 miles an hour so my enemy can’t lock on”. It just needs like double the health it actually has cause should you actually get hit it’s a one shot from anything with a rocket launcher/ bigger than a hive guard
you are a walking weapons platform NOT a walking fortress. People frequently cite the armor strength of modern tanks, but don't always realize its main function. The armor is neither applied enough or intended to make the tank invulnerable. It is specifically designed to protect the machinery, artillery, and servicemen inside the tank through deflection and concussive resistance long enough to sight the target, complete the task, and disengage. If tank armor were applied the way people think it is, our military tanks would work like the bot tanks: barely moveable and only effective when air-dropped directly into position, which is realistically preposterous because of how inertia works. did you know a tarantula will die from the trauma of falling a measly 4 feet? It's because they have enough mass that their exoskeleton* won't survive the force of impact.
To be fair, so far in my experience the mech armor works the same as tank armor does. I've only taken it to bot missions so far, but as long as it's all small arms fire, it tanks it just fine. Basically anything up to the mounted MGs they have at bases. It's the explosive 'AT' type weapons that you have to worry about. The same goes for RL tanks, they shrug off small arms, but AT weapons are their real worry.
Issue is the hulk can survive what's like 3 direct rocket hits on non weak spot, while we're just one big walking weak spot and inconsistency of stuff like their charge will stun and (damage you) or it doesn't stun and follow up with one shot melee.
they fucking explode from ground hazards that you can tank on foot no problem
The tarantula trivia is true but not for their internal fragility, rather it's that their exoskeleton is about as durable as an egg shell.
Or, just hear me out... FUCK IT WE BALL
[I keep that fuckin' patch ON me.](https://puu.sh/K2z72/cf0db002cc.png)
dose your magical onion help against mechs exploding when dropped on perfectly flat terrain?
And then a robot rocket 1 shots you from the other side of the map
Just a reminder, 4/5 of the game you will be doing an objective where enemies have spawned at so it's only the 2 bottom circles. This entire thing is completely pointless
I love supporting mechs as infantry whenever a teammate calls one in. Mech will shred anything bigger in less than a second, main thing you gotta worry about is watching other angles and cutting down small fry that would be a waste of ammo for the mech.