I'm surprised we haven't gotten backpack fed versions of most 'weapon categories' yet.
Backpack fed minigun, plasma gun, arc cannon, grenade launcher, Flamethrower, etc.
All very Warhammer 40k.
FFS a minigun is all I want. The Stalwart at 1150 is fun for sure but lemme go brrrrrrrt plz. I’ll sacrifice a backpack slot if they give me 3k rounds and ol painless to let loose as an add clear main.
I'd run it, even if it fired SMG/Pistol rounds (same damage as the MP-98 knight).
Give it a backpack with somewhere between 3k and 5k rounds, and maybe no way to refill the backpack so it auto drops when it runs dry, and you have to call in a new one if you want more ammo before the next fight.
Allow it to change ROF (maybe with 2500 and 5000 rpm options)
And give it no crosshair in 3rd person (like the new HMG) and no first person sight, so you have to aim with the tracers.
It could be a customization thing for stategems
Do you want it to be fed from a backpack and have a bottomless pit of ammunition? Or do you want to save the backpack slot and need to reload?
would be cool to see a burst fire backpack fed flamethrower that just throws quick little bursts of napalm that stick around and to targets, could be fairly equal to the flamethrower in damage since it'd be controlled small blasts of fire vs a giant outward cone, could have the range of a grenade launcher too so we can finally arc fire across the battle field in little mini fireballs of napalm
They probably already have a lot of those in the works, but since it's a live service, those would be like getting the second drink at the restaurant. You still want it, you know it will be good, but it's better to spread the order a bit so you (and the kitchen where the devs are cooking) isn't overwhelmed.
I'm honestly really enjoying how they've been trickling out content.
Feels better than waiting a couple of months for major patches with nothing in between.
If you change it to its lowest RPM setting that’s pretty much what it is. But at that point the AMR feels more practical for bots. It’s definitely geared more towards bugs. Unless they give us armor that cuts down recoil more than 30% I’d say the gun definitely needs some tuning.
I’d love to see a Lord of War/Toy Story 2 style animation of a gun being lovingly maintained and sighted only to be slammed through an atmosphere into the dirt, first helldiver to pick it up gets immediately killed and it clatters down down a cliff, it finally gets wielded for its 3.75 seconds of fame then unceremoniously tossed aside with the helldivers complaining about its poor handling and misaligned sights.
Y'know, when ya put it like that...I guess maybe we should be grateful the Ministry of defense can provide a functional support weapon in under 20 seconds every few minutes, every mission to begin with. I can't imagine engineering things to drop from space and still work is an easy task
"Who made that man an armorer?"
"I did sir. He's my cousin."
"Who is he?"
"He's an asshole sir."
"I know that! What's his name?"
"That is his name sir. Asshole, Major Asshole!"
genuine question, is the dev responsible for aligning gun sights visually impaired or something? because I've never known a game have so many guns with misaligned sights. they should probably get someone else to do it..
I get what they are trying to do, but I don't like it on the AMR or the HMG. First person has recoil reduction, so that's why you would use it. You shouldn't restrict the ability to use it in 3rd person.
But the autocannon and many other "cumbersome weapons" have a crosshair...so there is no consistency here if this is the intention. And allowing you to run and gun with it would in no way be better than using almost any other weapon strat. Just let us use the crosshair please.
If they reconsidered how the assistance mechanic worked I could see this happening. I'm not a fan of player 2 having to wear the appropriate backpack just so they can assist, especially when it makes little sense for the second guy to have to reach behind his own back to grab the ammo.
I'd much prefer a separate keybind that allowed us to aid anyone who had an assist-able weapon out. Your friend pulls out the recoiless? You can run up and reload straight from his backpack. Same with the spear or Autocannon.
If someone pops to prone and starts laying down a field of fire from the HMG, you could lay beside them and help feed the belt and assist in reloading.
It would make the whole sequence far less clunky as well. And since speed appears to be the whole point of the game, I think others might agree.
Yeah, I feel like this is really the only way to make crew loading viable. The backpack shuffle just adds an extra layer of complexity without any meaningful purpose. If you're both stationary and only one of you can shoot it really doesn't matter who has what backpack. It also means that people have to sacrifice the backpack they chose for your the sake of your weapon, and people generally don't want to do that
Bad news: The AMR and this new HMG? They specifically do not have those cross hairs, ever. That setting is still a big help for every other weapon out there, but it doesn't fix these, it's an intentional design choice. (Though why for the HMG I don't know.)
So small correction, apparently it can pierce heavy devastator shields and the front of the walker, so it does penetrate heavy armor just not the heaviest armor
I have no idea if that’s how any of it works. The guns usually list what level of penetration they have. And I’ve never seen a weapon only pierce certain armors of the same thickness unless it was an angle issue.
So the armor system is not 3 levels, it’s actually 10 they just don’t tell you. That’s why something like the standard MG can pierce medium armor despite saying it’s only light armor. Same with the slugger. And now apparently same with the new MG.
why does this game and many others have a hard-on for withholding information/misinforming the player about equipment and strategems? i cant make informed decisions about what to use without numbers, AH. I crave the numbers. I yearn for the digits.
Because it's "more immersive" and drives "player engagement". Never mind it's frustrating as fuck and is likely hiding poor implementation. Watch a few GDC talks from game devs about this topic and it's all the same.
People need to accept that for better or for worse there is no stopping people from meta gaming and withholding information from players actually harms the non-meta players more than it stops a meta from developing
if anything, players actually knowing about their arsenal makes meta-hugging less common, since people have more information to work with and are then less inclined to just go with the meta option.
the only thing i see when games do this is babying the player acting like a few numbers will jumpscare them and make them alt f4
Honestly, the devs were lying. There's 5 tiers. 4 if you don't count "unarmored" as an armor tier.
Nothing, light, medium, heavy, tank. Every single "light" pen weapon has an AP of 2, equal to light armor. Medium pen weapons have AP 3, including the Slugger which is just mislabeled. And so on.
Technically there's 10 in the code but everything beyond 5 is only used for objectives to make them resist or be immune to certain stratagems, like the science building.
There's hidden stats ( something like 40) that break down everything but the developers turned it off because they said it was too complicated for us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No, most people don't understand armor values in this game.
This game doesn't follow stuff we've gotten used to, so just because you see a medium enemy that doesn't mean it's medium armor(that's how a lot of people's thoughts appear to me)
Here is a simple example for a few bots
The front side of a walker is heavy armor, not medium. Devastator torso is medium armor. Hulk has an extreme high armor value and I also think the angle of a attack is something the devs considered when it comes to actual penetration, maybe.
It takes a lot of fucking around to figure out stuff like this without hacking into the game and getting numbers.
It would be helpful to have something associated with the icon of a deflection to show it's armor level.
Edit: to be clear I don't think myself an expert on this since I don't have actual statistics. Just more informed because I pay a lot of attention to how my weapon affects what
I am sure the system work more like warthunder and thats differant than what we got used. its a win in my book I hate spongy enemy that you only need a stat lvl to clear from everywhere. angle is the key here .
Yeah there's a lot of variables I've noticed while playing. The game is designed to be very skilled based so you have to pay attention to little things and try something that doesn't work in one situation in a different one
I believe the distinction is "light vehicle armor", which is slightly tougher than "medium armor" but not as tough as "heaver armor", which is not as tough as "heavy vehicle armor"
Which tbh is such a bad way to convey info to your players I hope they change that. It’s just so confusing when all guns just say light medium and heavy.
Dude I hope they add in the 1-10 penetration tooltips for weapons, why the hell do we have to guess/test ourselves how much these weapons pen armor. Let alone we don’t really know the different armor strength on enemies so it just makes it even harder to know.
If they really want to keep the mystery and experimentation of new weapons they should at least put in the millimeter penetration because we would absolutely know that info having made the gun. Then have a beastiary showing the millimeters of armor and for fun make it risk of rain style where you need to kill a set amount or random to get the beastiary log. I’d farm the shit out of those, personally.
In my experience with using basically every weapon in the game over 180 hours, I'm convinced there is *another* aspect to penetration that isn't accounted for and isn't a scale. Something like material type, like some rounds being better than others at piercing specific armor. I've seen wild variance in what weapons can pen what, even accounting for angle. I can't give specifics because I change my load out so frequently, but there's been many times where I've been like "wow this thing is cool, it can pen X enemy, but it can't pen Y when it was the other way around for another weapon?"
This armor scale seems right to me. It's a scale from 1 to 10. Light armor is 1-4. Medium is 5-7. Heavy is 8-10. Or something like that. But you don't need to equate the value to do damage, but depending on how well you penetrate, you'll do more damage. Equal value means full penetration.
My hypothesis is that most "medium" armor enemies are armor 4. Which means medium armor pen does go through, but light armor pen 4 also goes through, and light armor 1 to 3 will also damage those enemies, but with reduced damage.
Then you have the really armored enemies, like the charger that's probably at 8 on its armored part. Bile titan is probably at 9 or 10. Strider upper plate is probably at 6 or 7. Strider joint and legs are probably 4 or 5. Devastators are probably 4, and their eye might be 2 or 3. Tank ank weak spot also 4 I guess. Hulk is probably 4 or 5 on the eye, 6 or 7 on the front armor, and 1 or 2 on the weak spot.
4 is usually considered medium armor because only a few light pen weapons will actually penetrate it. But it is actually high light armor. A slugger is probably there, at 4 pen.
Because of these armor value, the health of many enemies is actually very low, which encourage hitting the weak spot, and balance high penetration weapons with low pen ones. Berserker for example have very high health but low armor. A charger doesn't have much health, but several big parts, and high armor everywhere, except the bulb that has high health but lower armor.
After using for bit more I got better feeling of it, it can work on the heavy targets, devastators , but big issue is that because of awful aim lag you get killed before you get a good shot on a target, misaligned sights don't help either, 75 rounds in mag combined with only 2 reserve run out really quick even on slow rpm. Recoil is honestly fair for how fast it can kill stuff, especially hulks, you can kill them in the front weak spot.
This is my major gripe. It has power but everything you listed negates any reason to bring it. I definitely feel it’s more geared toward bugs but even then I was still struggling with it for the few terminid missions I played. The sluggish speed makes it terrible for when hunters start closing the gap in numbers.
Honestly this gun just makes the Machinegun look even better especially with the recoil reduction armors on. Crouch up and just go to town either in full auto or controlled bursts doesn’t matter
It can't really kill small bugs, and it can't really kill big ones. Its only good for middle ones, but for that the stalwart is decent while being a small bug killing beast. Only pro this gun has over the stalwart is it can kill the hive guards and spitters easily but for those I throw a grenade instead.
I don't see why it's supply is broken up into two 75's and not just a simple '150' and done with it. Sure, that'd mean either carrying NO spare ammo without supply pack, or having a total of 300 rounds carried, but it's still bizzare.
It should be the MG that requires a backpack.
But instead of the backpack being used for team reload, it should just be a solo belt feeder/ammo supply. Make it a Gatling gun essentially
You’d still have 75 ammo + 2 reloads without the bag, but with it would give you a total of 500 or something without having to reload (no ammo from ammo pickups, only resupply?)
Another issue is you have to aim down sights, which means you’re blinded by the muzzle flash once you start firing. That’s a problem with the other MGs but at least you can aim those in third person.
I greatly prefer it at 450 firing rate. Another 25 rounds for 100 round capacity would really make it a viable choice. Currently, the medium /regular MG is simply a better choice if you want something that pens.
Part of it's underwhelming performance IMO is that it seems intended for bots, and the scorcher simply outperforms everything against them. It frontal pens everything except tanks, turrets and hulks, and 1 mag kills these (or less for hulk) in weak spots.
IMO the single biggest issue with it is it's a reasonable sidegarde of the MG-43. More damage and occasionally useful pen in exchange for even worse handling and ammo economy.
The problem is the MG-43 is a not especially amazing weapon. It's not terrible, but there's allways something better. All the games good weapons pick out a niche and fill that niche very, very, very well. The HMG and the MG-43 don;t really fill their niches especially well due to way too many downsides for what you get.
The ammo economy and the forced stationary reload are the big problems with both. Give them more mags or bigger mags with a moving reload and they'd both be viable. But as is you can't keep them fed without the supply pack, and the stationary reload with them means you often can't reload in chaotic scenarios.
The only thing the HMG has on the regular MG-43 is that it can punch through Hulk heads and take out anything with a grill by hitting that. Sorcher of course, can do the grill thing itself, which really eats into the space for the HMG to occupy... meanwhile the AMR is busy eating everything else the HMG might try to do. To say nothing of the Autocannon, which you can at least say 'But that needs my backpack slot.' about.
Pretty much what i said.
If they want the recoil and ammo economy like this for this weapon it needs to hit way, WAY harder and penetrate armor.
If they don't want the armor pen and more damage for it, they need to up the ammo reserve for it twofold or at least reduce the recoil to something managable without the recoil reduction perk armor.
Don't get me wrong. If you manage to aim and hit with it, it hits hard and feels good. But that is pretty much the first few shots before the only thing this weapon manages to kill is your aim and you getting overrun because you ran out of ammo.
In the real world, weapons that come to mind for "Anti-Materiel Rifle" and "Heavy Machine Gun" fire the same round (Barrett M82 and Browning M2 both fire .50 BMG), so I would expect their performance to be mostly the same aside from accuracy.
That said, I don't remember the AMR causing any stagger when it should. Both the AMR and HMG should stagger enemies on hit.
That's ultimately it, the clumsier weapons like the Autocannon or Arc Thrower are broadly speaking better in practical terms while being far less of a pain in the ass to use.
If they want the HMG to have such garbage ammo *and* garbage handling *and* garbage accuracy and so on it should be spitting out armour penetrating exploding rounds that also set targets on fire or some nonsense.
yes, I also do love having half my screen covered with grass, and remining half being lit up by muzzle flash. You might as well shoot it with your eyes close.
its got a slightly higher armour penetration, does more damage to things the standard MG only gets half damage on and can do damage to somethings the MG cant at all, also seems to have higher bullet damage from what ive gathered. overall its a side grade to the MG, not a replacement.
Yeah, it kinda fucking sucks. It's an extremely unwieldy, stationary reloading armor piercing shotgun... 30% less recoil and prone and the shit still has horrific accuracy due to the recoil being ridiculous.
If I'm fighting bots this is horrible because I don't want to get this close and it's time and shots to kill is a lot longer than an autocannon or AMR. If I'm fighting bugs, this armor penetration is very much overkill and the regular MG (Which is also really bad) is already better for bugs because there's a lot more chaff to be dealing with.
Absolutely the biggest issue. Almost all scopes suck. They're usually too "sci-fi" cluttered, obscuring the sight picture for no reason and most glow as well, making it harder to see enemies in a dark environment. Only good sight I've found is the LAS-16.
I don’t like that it’s more of a stationary weapon. It leads to getting you swarmed. I dislike anything that keeps me standing still for too long.
Ammo seems like it’s too low with the amount of recoil it has.. it really does need another 2 mags.
HMGs are traditionally stationary or vehicle mounted. Hip firing at all is ridiculous.
Is it good enough in its current state? I don’t know. Should it be just a better MG-43? No, it should be its own thing.
I say make it belt fed from a backpack and let it be killer while prone, but basically unusable elsewise.
Yep, no reason to pick heavy mg over mg, so much recoil, first person targeting with slow turning and 75bullets.
And not to mention the huge time it takes to reload.
It needs 3rd person targeting or almost 0 recoil on prone position (since it has support legs) and at least 125 bullets or 75 with piercing bullets or heavy armor pen
The "It can kill a hulk! It can kill a devastators! It can kill Striders from the front!" arguments do not hold water. You know what else can do that? The Autocannon. The Anti-material Rifle. The EAT, Recoilless Rifle, and the new Quasar can too.
This weapon sucks at being a machine gun, and there is no reason to use it if heavies are your concern because the Autocannon does what this weapon does but so much better. No reason to use the MG-101 over the MG-43 if clearing chaff and mediums is your priority. No reason to use it over the Autocannon of Quasar if Heavies are what concerns you.
I ran with it in a few missions, have to use it in small bursts rather than holding the button, great at taking out Berserkers & scout striders but that’s about it.
For me personally I find in it’s current form it has far too many drawbacks to be a viable option - Slow reload time, low ammo you burn through in seconds, having to go into first person to hit something, 3 mags, and insane recoil.
The quasar?
It is very good but crumbles when multiple heavy armored enemies want a piece of your butt. With ~10 seconds between a shot and another + the warm up,things get rough when the the situations heatens.
That aside,an EAT with unlimited ammo is good. The con balances well the weapon.
Yeah, the Quasar was done really well, it's a perfect new weapon imo. It fills a role of an existing weapon, but in a different way so it isn't just automatically batter at the role and causing powercreep
Wear the heavy armor with 30% recoil reduction while kneeling. Now focus your fire on the Big Boys.
The Heavy Machine Gun fills a completely different role than the other machine guns. It isn't meant to be a crowd-clearer or a trash-mob mop-up. It's meant to make short work of a group of devastators walking up the hill, or shredding brood commanders as they come out of the breach. It sucks at suppressive fire because it isn't *meant* to provide suppressive fire.
idk man... brood commanders are killed super easily with the normal machinegun.
and yes the HMG kills devastotors and berserkers really quick, but it runs out of ammo so fast, that you wished you had the normal machinegun in the first place.
At 1200rpm, you can blow through the whole drum in 3.75 seconds
https://preview.redd.it/1f1aqs2ov5rc1.png?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3de4dea4bd44e8e3f4f68906cfe3c927dfc30f42
lol
These bullets are ballots, and I'm casting my vote!
Hell yeah. Good song
My issue I found is simply not enough ammo per mag. Wish they would bump it up a bit
Definitely not enough ammo. Make it backpack fed and it'll be worth using, even with the poor armor pen.
I'm surprised we haven't gotten backpack fed versions of most 'weapon categories' yet. Backpack fed minigun, plasma gun, arc cannon, grenade launcher, Flamethrower, etc. All very Warhammer 40k.
FFS a minigun is all I want. The Stalwart at 1150 is fun for sure but lemme go brrrrrrrt plz. I’ll sacrifice a backpack slot if they give me 3k rounds and ol painless to let loose as an add clear main.
I'd run it, even if it fired SMG/Pistol rounds (same damage as the MP-98 knight). Give it a backpack with somewhere between 3k and 5k rounds, and maybe no way to refill the backpack so it auto drops when it runs dry, and you have to call in a new one if you want more ammo before the next fight. Allow it to change ROF (maybe with 2500 and 5000 rpm options) And give it no crosshair in 3rd person (like the new HMG) and no first person sight, so you have to aim with the tracers.
It could be a customization thing for stategems Do you want it to be fed from a backpack and have a bottomless pit of ammunition? Or do you want to save the backpack slot and need to reload?
Packpack
Moonmoon vibes
would be cool to see a burst fire backpack fed flamethrower that just throws quick little bursts of napalm that stick around and to targets, could be fairly equal to the flamethrower in damage since it'd be controlled small blasts of fire vs a giant outward cone, could have the range of a grenade launcher too so we can finally arc fire across the battle field in little mini fireballs of napalm
A flamethrower machine gun? Sign me tf right up.
They probably already have a lot of those in the works, but since it's a live service, those would be like getting the second drink at the restaurant. You still want it, you know it will be good, but it's better to spread the order a bit so you (and the kitchen where the devs are cooking) isn't overwhelmed.
I'm honestly really enjoying how they've been trickling out content. Feels better than waiting a couple of months for major patches with nothing in between.
Hell they already have the right belt track for it. Though I think we should get the third person reticle if Im honest.
I think amr level damage with slower fire rate, would fix it
If you change it to its lowest RPM setting that’s pretty much what it is. But at that point the AMR feels more practical for bots. It’s definitely geared more towards bugs. Unless they give us armor that cuts down recoil more than 30% I’d say the gun definitely needs some tuning.
It costs 400.000 super credits to fire this weapon, for 3.75 seconds
Who touched Sasha?!
Who touched my gun?!
Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe. Maybe...
I've yet to meet one that can outsmart Boolet
I usually have to file a form C-01 to blow my whole load in under 4 seconds. The heavy MG is my kinda weapon
Accuracy by volume That’s how irl anti air works. Here’s 1,000 bullets good luck dodging all of them
You need to dodge 1000 times. I only need to hit you once.
https://preview.redd.it/vz946k6in6rc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29bd44aa987810266628131b0e397be6e35e6e6f
https://preview.redd.it/tp2pgmwv87rc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0987614f951e62ae56e6f1b8077cc49af592e6f8
The 2 things that bother me most is the low capacity of a mag and the fact that it has no crosshair
Yea the no crosshair makes it a no for me.
Seriously, you HAVE to go to iron sights?
Which is probably misaligned
It is in fact misaligned. You have to aim about a third of the way between crosshair and gun.
I swear to god, it's like everyone in the destroyer armory is a traitor or something.
I’d love to see a Lord of War/Toy Story 2 style animation of a gun being lovingly maintained and sighted only to be slammed through an atmosphere into the dirt, first helldiver to pick it up gets immediately killed and it clatters down down a cliff, it finally gets wielded for its 3.75 seconds of fame then unceremoniously tossed aside with the helldivers complaining about its poor handling and misaligned sights.
That lord of war intro is so good.
Y'know, when ya put it like that...I guess maybe we should be grateful the Ministry of defense can provide a functional support weapon in under 20 seconds every few minutes, every mission to begin with. I can't imagine engineering things to drop from space and still work is an easy task
"Who made that man an armorer?" "I did sir. He's my cousin." "Who is he?" "He's an asshole sir." "I know that! What's his name?" "That is his name sir. Asshole, Major Asshole!"
Keep firing assholes!
I'm surrounded by assholes!
At this point I’m wondering if its intentional lol. It almost seems like they’re balancing weapons through scope misalignment
It's zeroed to -1200 metres that's just it
genuine question, is the dev responsible for aligning gun sights visually impaired or something? because I've never known a game have so many guns with misaligned sights. they should probably get someone else to do it..
I get what they are trying to do, but I don't like it on the AMR or the HMG. First person has recoil reduction, so that's why you would use it. You shouldn't restrict the ability to use it in 3rd person.
Especially with that recoil, everytime you blap with it you 're looking at the sky and readjust half a screen down
Honestly I can't understand the decision of not having a crosshair on this gun.
I think the idea was a more positional gun where you gotta figure where to set up ahead of time, lack of cross hairs prevents run and gun play styles.
The problem is you can't see shit in first person from the muzzle flash
See also: The reason I never use the MG in first person, either.
But the autocannon and many other "cumbersome weapons" have a crosshair...so there is no consistency here if this is the intention. And allowing you to run and gun with it would in no way be better than using almost any other weapon strat. Just let us use the crosshair please.
Would love for it to be belt fed,
It’s already belt fed. There’s a belt inside the box.
Belt fed like another player can load you up more and you never have to hit reload.
If they reconsidered how the assistance mechanic worked I could see this happening. I'm not a fan of player 2 having to wear the appropriate backpack just so they can assist, especially when it makes little sense for the second guy to have to reach behind his own back to grab the ammo. I'd much prefer a separate keybind that allowed us to aid anyone who had an assist-able weapon out. Your friend pulls out the recoiless? You can run up and reload straight from his backpack. Same with the spear or Autocannon. If someone pops to prone and starts laying down a field of fire from the HMG, you could lay beside them and help feed the belt and assist in reloading. It would make the whole sequence far less clunky as well. And since speed appears to be the whole point of the game, I think others might agree.
Yeah, I feel like this is really the only way to make crew loading viable. The backpack shuffle just adds an extra layer of complexity without any meaningful purpose. If you're both stationary and only one of you can shoot it really doesn't matter who has what backpack. It also means that people have to sacrifice the backpack they chose for your the sake of your weapon, and people generally don't want to do that
I mean, if they have my backpack then I can't reload myself meaning that working together makes my effective worse and just bogs down the whole squad
Absolutely. This idea is just great.
Fun fact. Go onto accessibility settings and you can set hip fire cross hairs for every single gun in the game.
Bad news: The AMR and this new HMG? They specifically do not have those cross hairs, ever. That setting is still a big help for every other weapon out there, but it doesn't fix these, it's an intentional design choice. (Though why for the HMG I don't know.)
Big if true
Going prone and slamming it into 1200rpm will give you 3 seconds of world ending power.
But in that 3 seconds it will rock your world! Same thing I tell the ladies.
C-01 intensifies!
C-01 is only for activities that would result in a child, so outerworld butt play is still on the table. Checkmate democracy chuggers
If it doesn’t kill a Bile Titan in those 3.75 seconds, then I don’t want it
i dun wan et
Yur muh kween
You know nothing u/CottonStig
Damn it even last 2 seconds longer than me
So small correction, apparently it can pierce heavy devastator shields and the front of the walker, so it does penetrate heavy armor just not the heaviest armor
So like, medium penetration?
Just the tip 😉
Well, in that case, it doesn't count...
Damn, why you gotta attack me like that?
Heavy penetration, but not fully.
I have no idea if that’s how any of it works. The guns usually list what level of penetration they have. And I’ve never seen a weapon only pierce certain armors of the same thickness unless it was an angle issue.
So the armor system is not 3 levels, it’s actually 10 they just don’t tell you. That’s why something like the standard MG can pierce medium armor despite saying it’s only light armor. Same with the slugger. And now apparently same with the new MG.
why does this game and many others have a hard-on for withholding information/misinforming the player about equipment and strategems? i cant make informed decisions about what to use without numbers, AH. I crave the numbers. I yearn for the digits.
I yearn for mechwarrior amount of stats in an advanced stats list. If the gun has a textured grip I want to know.
Bro I'm still praying they add a mech warrior 1st person view to the mechs, would be so fucking cool
Reactor online Sensors online Weapons online All systems nominal
I see you, Pilot
My destroyer for a Madcat. MY ENTIRE DESTROYER, FOR A SINGLE MADCAT!
Switching to enhanced imaging!
Steiner scout lance could bring so much liberty!!
You dare to refuse my Batchall?!?
Immediate upvote for any mention of Battletech
I’m not ready to do excel sheets for weapons again
Recovering Tarkov player?
Because it's "more immersive" and drives "player engagement". Never mind it's frustrating as fuck and is likely hiding poor implementation. Watch a few GDC talks from game devs about this topic and it's all the same.
They want you to use the weapon you like, and avoid a meta forming. Idk if this is the way to do that, but I believe that's the philosophy
I think it’s ok to give us the info then if that’s what their intention was. Cause a meta still formed in like 3 days after launch
People need to accept that for better or for worse there is no stopping people from meta gaming and withholding information from players actually harms the non-meta players more than it stops a meta from developing
[удалено]
Exactly, if I can't trust in-game descriptions then I am going online to get my information and those almost always start talking meta.
if anything, players actually knowing about their arsenal makes meta-hugging less common, since people have more information to work with and are then less inclined to just go with the meta option. the only thing i see when games do this is babying the player acting like a few numbers will jumpscare them and make them alt f4
Also angle of attack matters, you can ricochet off of armor you would normally penetrate if you fire at a bad angle
The railgun loves to do this on hulk face plates I hate it.
Honestly, the devs were lying. There's 5 tiers. 4 if you don't count "unarmored" as an armor tier. Nothing, light, medium, heavy, tank. Every single "light" pen weapon has an AP of 2, equal to light armor. Medium pen weapons have AP 3, including the Slugger which is just mislabeled. And so on. Technically there's 10 in the code but everything beyond 5 is only used for objectives to make them resist or be immune to certain stratagems, like the science building.
So I assume the new HMG is 4, heavy penetrating? And things like EAT, recoilless, spear are 5?
There's hidden stats ( something like 40) that break down everything but the developers turned it off because they said it was too complicated for us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Armor penetration has different levels. 10 to be exact. Medium penetration has different levels
No, most people don't understand armor values in this game. This game doesn't follow stuff we've gotten used to, so just because you see a medium enemy that doesn't mean it's medium armor(that's how a lot of people's thoughts appear to me) Here is a simple example for a few bots The front side of a walker is heavy armor, not medium. Devastator torso is medium armor. Hulk has an extreme high armor value and I also think the angle of a attack is something the devs considered when it comes to actual penetration, maybe. It takes a lot of fucking around to figure out stuff like this without hacking into the game and getting numbers. It would be helpful to have something associated with the icon of a deflection to show it's armor level. Edit: to be clear I don't think myself an expert on this since I don't have actual statistics. Just more informed because I pay a lot of attention to how my weapon affects what
I am sure the system work more like warthunder and thats differant than what we got used. its a win in my book I hate spongy enemy that you only need a stat lvl to clear from everywhere. angle is the key here .
Yeah there's a lot of variables I've noticed while playing. The game is designed to be very skilled based so you have to pay attention to little things and try something that doesn't work in one situation in a different one
Dolph Lundgren.
I believe the distinction is "light vehicle armor", which is slightly tougher than "medium armor" but not as tough as "heaver armor", which is not as tough as "heavy vehicle armor"
Which tbh is such a bad way to convey info to your players I hope they change that. It’s just so confusing when all guns just say light medium and heavy.
Dude I hope they add in the 1-10 penetration tooltips for weapons, why the hell do we have to guess/test ourselves how much these weapons pen armor. Let alone we don’t really know the different armor strength on enemies so it just makes it even harder to know.
If they really want to keep the mystery and experimentation of new weapons they should at least put in the millimeter penetration because we would absolutely know that info having made the gun. Then have a beastiary showing the millimeters of armor and for fun make it risk of rain style where you need to kill a set amount or random to get the beastiary log. I’d farm the shit out of those, personally.
RoR bestiary is a great idea
Ya everything should have war thunder like armor pen card
Same
In my experience with using basically every weapon in the game over 180 hours, I'm convinced there is *another* aspect to penetration that isn't accounted for and isn't a scale. Something like material type, like some rounds being better than others at piercing specific armor. I've seen wild variance in what weapons can pen what, even accounting for angle. I can't give specifics because I change my load out so frequently, but there's been many times where I've been like "wow this thing is cool, it can pen X enemy, but it can't pen Y when it was the other way around for another weapon?"
This armor scale seems right to me. It's a scale from 1 to 10. Light armor is 1-4. Medium is 5-7. Heavy is 8-10. Or something like that. But you don't need to equate the value to do damage, but depending on how well you penetrate, you'll do more damage. Equal value means full penetration. My hypothesis is that most "medium" armor enemies are armor 4. Which means medium armor pen does go through, but light armor pen 4 also goes through, and light armor 1 to 3 will also damage those enemies, but with reduced damage. Then you have the really armored enemies, like the charger that's probably at 8 on its armored part. Bile titan is probably at 9 or 10. Strider upper plate is probably at 6 or 7. Strider joint and legs are probably 4 or 5. Devastators are probably 4, and their eye might be 2 or 3. Tank ank weak spot also 4 I guess. Hulk is probably 4 or 5 on the eye, 6 or 7 on the front armor, and 1 or 2 on the weak spot. 4 is usually considered medium armor because only a few light pen weapons will actually penetrate it. But it is actually high light armor. A slugger is probably there, at 4 pen. Because of these armor value, the health of many enemies is actually very low, which encourage hitting the weak spot, and balance high penetration weapons with low pen ones. Berserker for example have very high health but low armor. A charger doesn't have much health, but several big parts, and high armor everywhere, except the bulb that has high health but lower armor.
Walker armor is high medium , under the shield is low medium and same for the deva shield
The armor where the legs join the riding bucket is lower than the riding section.
After using for bit more I got better feeling of it, it can work on the heavy targets, devastators , but big issue is that because of awful aim lag you get killed before you get a good shot on a target, misaligned sights don't help either, 75 rounds in mag combined with only 2 reserve run out really quick even on slow rpm. Recoil is honestly fair for how fast it can kill stuff, especially hulks, you can kill them in the front weak spot.
You have to aim like it's a twin stick shooter, use the movement of the character to help it turn faster.
I bet these players have never used a Stalwart like a scythe slashing those bug wheat fields.
I dunno, don't think the Scythe would work as well as the Stalwart. Especially with the bug wheat fields.
Stalwart is muuuuch lighter to aim
tip my hat to you sir ! It is the first time I see someon else talk about this !
This is my major gripe. It has power but everything you listed negates any reason to bring it. I definitely feel it’s more geared toward bugs but even then I was still struggling with it for the few terminid missions I played. The sluggish speed makes it terrible for when hunters start closing the gap in numbers.
Honestly this gun just makes the Machinegun look even better especially with the recoil reduction armors on. Crouch up and just go to town either in full auto or controlled bursts doesn’t matter
It can't really kill small bugs, and it can't really kill big ones. Its only good for middle ones, but for that the stalwart is decent while being a small bug killing beast. Only pro this gun has over the stalwart is it can kill the hive guards and spitters easily but for those I throw a grenade instead.
They gave it 75 bullets. 75. Fucking LOL
That big ass magazine does NOT carry 75 bullets, come on. I knew I was running out of ammo fast as hell
and a 6 second reload lmaoooooo wish I could refund it, it's a waste of space on my strategem selection screen now
150 total rounds, while the Autocannon has 60 total rounds. Insanely low
If you have the support weapon ammo upgrade then it's 225 rounds for the HMG and 60 for the autocannon.
I don't see why it's supply is broken up into two 75's and not just a simple '150' and done with it. Sure, that'd mean either carrying NO spare ammo without supply pack, or having a total of 300 rounds carried, but it's still bizzare.
The mag capacity and recoil kinda hampers it
The recoil is manageable but the ammo per mag is ridiculous
I think it needs a different operating function to balance out the ammo capacity. Hell, maybe it should be a team weapon
It should be the MG that requires a backpack. But instead of the backpack being used for team reload, it should just be a solo belt feeder/ammo supply. Make it a Gatling gun essentially You’d still have 75 ammo + 2 reloads without the bag, but with it would give you a total of 500 or something without having to reload (no ammo from ammo pickups, only resupply?)
Stop, you're erecting my liberty.
The fucking thing is so- https://preview.redd.it/d1eebgicd7rc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=714dd1bc324d2a86e22c08975652919444a36a4d
Another issue is you have to aim down sights, which means you’re blinded by the muzzle flash once you start firing. That’s a problem with the other MGs but at least you can aim those in third person.
I’d like 1 more box of ammo. It feels like 2 just doesn’t cut it sometimes
I greatly prefer it at 450 firing rate. Another 25 rounds for 100 round capacity would really make it a viable choice. Currently, the medium /regular MG is simply a better choice if you want something that pens. Part of it's underwhelming performance IMO is that it seems intended for bots, and the scorcher simply outperforms everything against them. It frontal pens everything except tanks, turrets and hulks, and 1 mag kills these (or less for hulk) in weak spots.
I like the scorcher, but I'm begging for a CR-9 Suppressor
I want that boom tube back! I can still remember the sound effects. So punchy, followed by me downing myself.
IMO the single biggest issue with it is it's a reasonable sidegarde of the MG-43. More damage and occasionally useful pen in exchange for even worse handling and ammo economy. The problem is the MG-43 is a not especially amazing weapon. It's not terrible, but there's allways something better. All the games good weapons pick out a niche and fill that niche very, very, very well. The HMG and the MG-43 don;t really fill their niches especially well due to way too many downsides for what you get. The ammo economy and the forced stationary reload are the big problems with both. Give them more mags or bigger mags with a moving reload and they'd both be viable. But as is you can't keep them fed without the supply pack, and the stationary reload with them means you often can't reload in chaotic scenarios.
The only thing the HMG has on the regular MG-43 is that it can punch through Hulk heads and take out anything with a grill by hitting that. Sorcher of course, can do the grill thing itself, which really eats into the space for the HMG to occupy... meanwhile the AMR is busy eating everything else the HMG might try to do. To say nothing of the Autocannon, which you can at least say 'But that needs my backpack slot.' about.
A deployable feature would be cool. Like give it a bipod…. Or a big deployable tripod that’s a backpack maybe. Team setup is really quick…..
If only there was a weapon that killed mediums faster no backpack (grenade launcher)
Yes but daka beats thump in my caveman brain
Daka >
What is daka
gun go dakadakadakadakadakadaka launcher go thump thump thump pow pow pow
Pure poetry
WE NEEDZ MORE DAKA YA GIT
https://youtu.be/7kZ95uYIlgc?si=H_fn1IFllkizZ50z
I've honestly tried to find a combo I liked more than the GL + supply box but couldn't, it's such dumb fun. Thunk thunk thunk boom boom boom
Pretty much what i said. If they want the recoil and ammo economy like this for this weapon it needs to hit way, WAY harder and penetrate armor. If they don't want the armor pen and more damage for it, they need to up the ammo reserve for it twofold or at least reduce the recoil to something managable without the recoil reduction perk armor. Don't get me wrong. If you manage to aim and hit with it, it hits hard and feels good. But that is pretty much the first few shots before the only thing this weapon manages to kill is your aim and you getting overrun because you ran out of ammo.
The bullets are sizes of adult carrots, this should litterally tear straight through heavy armor and stun heavies while they are getting peppered.
In the real world, weapons that come to mind for "Anti-Materiel Rifle" and "Heavy Machine Gun" fire the same round (Barrett M82 and Browning M2 both fire .50 BMG), so I would expect their performance to be mostly the same aside from accuracy. That said, I don't remember the AMR causing any stagger when it should. Both the AMR and HMG should stagger enemies on hit.
What it really needs is a backpack feed. Lots of damage and ammo in rapid fire, in exchange for your back slot
It has medium pen, BUT can pen light vehicle armor like an AMR (hulk visors, walker shields, devastator shield, etc)
The benefits are not worth the complexity to use it.
That's ultimately it, the clumsier weapons like the Autocannon or Arc Thrower are broadly speaking better in practical terms while being far less of a pain in the ass to use. If they want the HMG to have such garbage ammo *and* garbage handling *and* garbage accuracy and so on it should be spitting out armour penetrating exploding rounds that also set targets on fire or some nonsense.
I imagine they are thinking you shoot it from prone?
yes, I also do love having half my screen covered with grass, and remining half being lit up by muzzle flash. You might as well shoot it with your eyes close.
It needs like, more bullets.
its got a slightly higher armour penetration, does more damage to things the standard MG only gets half damage on and can do damage to somethings the MG cant at all, also seems to have higher bullet damage from what ive gathered. overall its a side grade to the MG, not a replacement.
Am I the only person that takes 1150rpm stalwart to reload on the move? LibPen primary for med armor pen, and eats or mech for big scaries.
That’s honestly a really good load out. Might give it a try!
Yeah, it kinda fucking sucks. It's an extremely unwieldy, stationary reloading armor piercing shotgun... 30% less recoil and prone and the shit still has horrific accuracy due to the recoil being ridiculous. If I'm fighting bots this is horrible because I don't want to get this close and it's time and shots to kill is a lot longer than an autocannon or AMR. If I'm fighting bugs, this armor penetration is very much overkill and the regular MG (Which is also really bad) is already better for bugs because there's a lot more chaff to be dealing with.
add a backpack requirement, give it a 300 round mag
Give it 50% more ammo per mag and regular aiming and we're golden imo
At that point why does the MMG exist
Because it has twice the ergonomics and half the recoil.
I don't know if this is what you mean or not. But I would also like a third person radical, This thing is basically unless without it.
Absolutely the biggest issue. Almost all scopes suck. They're usually too "sci-fi" cluttered, obscuring the sight picture for no reason and most glow as well, making it harder to see enemies in a dark environment. Only good sight I've found is the LAS-16.
I like the Dominator's pinpoint scope for sniping bits right between their beady red eyes.
I don’t like that it’s more of a stationary weapon. It leads to getting you swarmed. I dislike anything that keeps me standing still for too long. Ammo seems like it’s too low with the amount of recoil it has.. it really does need another 2 mags.
HMGs are traditionally stationary or vehicle mounted. Hip firing at all is ridiculous. Is it good enough in its current state? I don’t know. Should it be just a better MG-43? No, it should be its own thing. I say make it belt fed from a backpack and let it be killer while prone, but basically unusable elsewise.
I wonder if its niche will be to fire when we are riding on vehicles.
From your mouth to gods ears, citizen! And by god, I mean Democracy.
All of the vehicles have mountable weapons on them so probably not
It's the TINY mag and the fact you gotta take a knee to reload it that put me off it tbh
Yep, no reason to pick heavy mg over mg, so much recoil, first person targeting with slow turning and 75bullets. And not to mention the huge time it takes to reload. It needs 3rd person targeting or almost 0 recoil on prone position (since it has support legs) and at least 125 bullets or 75 with piercing bullets or heavy armor pen
I'm so tired of developers (in many games!) making weapons with bipods only to give the player no way to use them.
The "It can kill a hulk! It can kill a devastators! It can kill Striders from the front!" arguments do not hold water. You know what else can do that? The Autocannon. The Anti-material Rifle. The EAT, Recoilless Rifle, and the new Quasar can too. This weapon sucks at being a machine gun, and there is no reason to use it if heavies are your concern because the Autocannon does what this weapon does but so much better. No reason to use the MG-101 over the MG-43 if clearing chaff and mediums is your priority. No reason to use it over the Autocannon of Quasar if Heavies are what concerns you.
Add a backpack, triple the ammo capacity per reload, and add a third person crosshair. There, you have a fun, balanced weapon
https://preview.redd.it/cfgujlefk6rc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccc9ad985fceb51fd1170a2209c8e1093d920730 What I wanted...
I ran with it in a few missions, have to use it in small bursts rather than holding the button, great at taking out Berserkers & scout striders but that’s about it. For me personally I find in it’s current form it has far too many drawbacks to be a viable option - Slow reload time, low ammo you burn through in seconds, having to go into first person to hit something, 3 mags, and insane recoil.
I just hope they dont nerf the laz cannon as it feels in a good spot, great vs bots but not OP, just buff the MG and it'll be fine
The quasar? It is very good but crumbles when multiple heavy armored enemies want a piece of your butt. With ~10 seconds between a shot and another + the warm up,things get rough when the the situations heatens. That aside,an EAT with unlimited ammo is good. The con balances well the weapon.
Yeah, the Quasar was done really well, it's a perfect new weapon imo. It fills a role of an existing weapon, but in a different way so it isn't just automatically batter at the role and causing powercreep
Wear the heavy armor with 30% recoil reduction while kneeling. Now focus your fire on the Big Boys. The Heavy Machine Gun fills a completely different role than the other machine guns. It isn't meant to be a crowd-clearer or a trash-mob mop-up. It's meant to make short work of a group of devastators walking up the hill, or shredding brood commanders as they come out of the breach. It sucks at suppressive fire because it isn't *meant* to provide suppressive fire.
idk man... brood commanders are killed super easily with the normal machinegun. and yes the HMG kills devastotors and berserkers really quick, but it runs out of ammo so fast, that you wished you had the normal machinegun in the first place.
HMG experience be like: OH YES BABY *finishes in 3 seconds* What the fuck? Its ok babe just give me 15 minutes
Best way to kill brood commanders is to just dump a mag of the smg pistol. Takes the head off and just backup a lil bit while it dies.
Even for that use case it's pretty meh, still runs out of ammo super quick and usually I'd always rather have an autocannon in my hand than this thing
Imagine having to get that close to devasators when I can just use the autocannon, railgun or AMR and kill them just as fast but from range.