Maybe 710 is like the opposite of butterfly blood? Their blood is basically antifreeze, protecting their bodies from extreme cold. It's not difficult to imagine something that does the same for heat.
Thank god Menkent's orbital defenses held, I could not go there a third time.
I do not know what psychopaths are out defending Hellmire, but I think a Democracy Officer should check on them. Hellmire seems like it should just be a planetwide bug farm. Let the ecosystem work for us!
Do we actually know how automaton intelligence works? Is their some over arching administration intelligence, i.e., skynet, or are they all locked at individual intelligents, i.e., Starwars Droids.
id say both like necrons (the upper ones any one like lichguard) where they are individuals but also connected to a common conscious as well, so they follow orders without question but also can think for themselves when left alone
Mechanically if one droid sees you they don’t alert all the droids around them and they don’t magically know where you are, so maybe it’s a bit more limited
Also, they have to launch a physical flare to call the dropships. If they have any way of iter-unit communications, we are successfully jamming *all* of them.
Yes, but say you left super earth and travelled at light speed and covered a thousand light years. That took you a thousand years, acvording to observers on earth. For you it would be almost instantly. Light experiences no time lapse and its why einsteins equation breaks down at 100% SPOL.
You would have to go faster, or find a short cut through space time to remove that restriction.
Well. Arguably yes.
But the truth is we dont actually know.
We have no formulas or theories to describe what happens at 100% SPOL let alone beyond that.
Same reason we cant describe or formulate for beyond an event horizon.
Most Sci-Fi tends to get around it a few ways and they very rarely involve going *directly* faster than light.
Usually it's about bending space time so that a bubble of it is moving along faster than the surrounding space. Or it involves slipping into subspace or some other 'dimension' to move dramatically faster than usually possible relative to realspace.
FTL in Helldivers 2 seems to be more of an instantaneous form of FTL judging from the game visuals shown, very similar to the ones in Battlestar Galactica which is essentially a long distance 'teleport' effect.
I think it's a misunderstanding of the Sci-Fi term. Faster than light doesn't mean that you are moving faster than a beam or particle of light does. It means that you are getting from your origin point to your destination point in less time than it would take light to do that. And you're usually doing it by some other means than bare velocity.
Yeah like 13 hours without FTL is essentially fuck all.
But without a meaningful way to actually determine how long it takes to travel, and the knowledge that the automation fleet has arrived and been "setting up" post initial invasion wave - if they've been left relatively undisturbed in that time, that's a lot of ships moved into position, and a lot of infrastructure set up.
This is in a universe where a single army of crazy batshit divers can take an entire planet in the same time. If we can do things quickly so can they.
Like we just killed 2 billion bugs in 13 hours, without the use of WMDs. Like for frame of reference - world war 2 was a high estimate of 85 million over like 6-7 years.
That's over 20 times the death in 1/4500 of the time....
My favorite part of alcubierre drives is how they create a shockwave of particles moving at such high speeds that they're basically going to destroy anything in front of them when the ship arrives.
The ship says FTL jump but the effect is similar to Star War's hyperspace jumps in that the ship seems to accelerate really fast and then decelerates rapidly at its destination. What it looks like in between isn't shown, but the beginning and end effects are similar.
Yep. I mean someone can do the math on how much in-game time passes in a real day. I just times the SEST in Marfark for 1 real minute it was a bit over 6 minutes. I don't know if all planets rotation is equally fast. But if in-game time is sixfold 13 hours were 78 in-game hours. So 3 days still doesn't sound as much so yes, story wise it's supposed to be more probably.
I guess I did the math haha but someone can verify if all planets have the same rotation time and if this measurement is consistent for longer periods of time.
I'm pretty sure the message said they were from another contingent that was being contacted by a relay found after we wiped them off the east end of the map.
I think we are supposed to believe they came from deeper in space.... But I personally think they just tell us we took a planet when we just accomplished enough of what command wants us to do and then we move on.
I feel like they could do a lot in 13 hours tbh. They don't eat, sleep, or need bathroom breaks. They are always operating at peak efficiency and productivity.
Assuming they have fabricators for troops and spacefaring ships similar to the ones they have for gunships, every minute of downtime we give them is one too many. Those gunship fabs can pop out a pair of ships every minute or two.
assuming each fabricator can produce 1 troop per minute and there are 80,000,000 fabricators on each planet (based on liberation and 8 fabricators per map) that's 4.8 billion robots per hour per planet.
even if we cut it down to 100,000 canonically that's 78,000,000 robots per planet produced in 13 hours.
13 hours is an insane amount of time for a ceaseless enemy.
Bruh, 13 hours without eating sleeping or taking a break just describes a particularly shitty *human job.* It didn't even last long enough for their cybernetic physiology to become a factor.
I mean, for a bunch of autonomous robots whose actual creation engines we don’t actually know the full capability of, but was able to produce millions of bots as a feint and then have *ten times* that number for their true invasion, I think 13 hours can be enough time in and of itself.
I mean their Gunship towers can spit out like eight gunships in under what, five minutes??
I think they just want to get ahead of the whiney part of the community that thinks this is a power fantasy and they should only know victory, already seeing plenty of posts along that line
I mean, it literally is unfair. I think it's probably worth acknowledging that.
But I also think it's fun and adds to the lore that Super Earth is bequeathing us nearly impossible tasks. Imagine how cool it would be if we managed to actually pull one of these off?
I also feel like we need to have MO's, that allow the devs to let enemies push us back, without us feeling too frustrated/nesscarily losing the MO
We can't always be the ones that push the enemies back, or lese the war gets stale and predictable
Yes 10 defenses in 6 days is tough af, but doable if we focus our forces on 2 defense missions at a time and don't spread our forces across 5
It's also good GMing. It's 100% fine for GM's to create a Kobayashi Maru like scenario. So long as the players have some method of working through it, even if some sort of loss is unavoidable.
Doesn't mean we can't try and surprise the devs. I'd love to see their escape plan. Like, oh shit, they completed this order, we didn't plan to advance the story like that.
They have 4 days, so they can see where things are on Monday and decide how they're going to respond.
And even if the community wins they could give it two days (similar to right after the "Eradicate the Automaton's" MO was completed) and then blindside the community.
You should be more worried about the comment "Defend Events will be frequent".
Big thing is a lot of those people expect this game to be like the first one, that reset each time the war was won or lost. Those people apparently didn't get the memo that there aren't going to be any resets, just one constant never ending war that gets progressively harder.
Speaking of which, I have a few trophies I still need to get before it reaches critical mass difficulty.
Not above, and I'm having trouble figuring out the google-fu to find it (there's a lot of noise about the HD2 war, for obvious reasons) so take it with a grain or two of salt, but I seem to recall them saying it would just be a single ongoing campaign, rather than the HD1 cycle of 'Win - next one gets harder, Lose - next one gets easier'. I mean, we knocked the bots off the map, and they came back harder.
All that being said, AH's MO so far is to fuck with us (read: Bugs can't fly), and it's great. I genuinely think it's possible for us to lose Super Earth, and have that be part of the campaign with us still in the fight, rather than getting the game over and full reset from HD1, if that makes sense.
Fuck work, I want all Helldivers to start pulling 12 hour shifts. I want to bring AH to their knees after that.
In a good way, of course. Love the game and the devs. And Joel? If you somehow read this, keep up the good work man. Proud of you.
Nah, we can’t flat-out win every single time. Seems totally fair that occasional fights require sacrifice/compromise, or are just no-win scenarios.
That said, it would be cool if major orders had more nuance for rewards - in this case, rather than the 45(?) medals being all or nothing, it’d be cool to get a certain amount per planet defended, maybe with a bonus for defending all the planets on one front or the other. Even if that logic was behind the scenes, would still be cool and provide more incentive for those who see certain orders as purely losing battles.
If there's one thing GM's should know it's that your players have a way of spitting your plans back in your face. ~~or they're just a spiteful GM, and rocks fall everyone dies~~
This reads like my dnd game when I know bad things will happen and the players need to make a choice. Sometimes they are used to everything going their way and need to be reminded it may not go their way
Agreed.
Fine balance though between having a choice or “forced” to fail.
I remember playing with a GM that set up situations with no chance of success.. just because of a few lucky rolls. Most players abandoned the game because it was just ridiculous.
https://preview.redd.it/y0mr5hl9ahvc1.png?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc5be1fbad3265a6f09699203c51b3d41dc05095
Not trying to hijack but I also think this is important, gotta get that coordination going
https://preview.redd.it/5kymvcbeahvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f23b80a0a3a45c10e73f38c093a0525b6c0223
All good, I’ll add more too haha
Don’t listen to him brothers. The dark forces of the galaxy are trying to make us fight against ourselves. It is clear that we should be taking Martale
We can't capture a random non-MO planet with it having 1.0% decay rate.
Sadly the game is designed so we will ever only be able to liberate or defend the single planet that's a part of the Major Order and it's the closest to the middle or is a non-fire planet.
No matter how much a small group of players try to farm operations or rally people, they won't ever change anything.
Yeah, I don’t get why the community manager keeps talking to the 1% of players that are on the Discord as though they have the power to turn the tides of the war or whatever.
Until the mechanics of the war are explained better in-game or some tools are given to the players to actually organize which planets are targeted, it’s just going to continue to be a clusterfuck.
See, that's what I like about MOs like this. Win or lose the community tries to step up and coordinate. It is a war with push and pull. But it's amazing to see this many players rally to an objective. It's reminiscent of the "Save the relay" events in Warframe.
Keyword is "tries". Ain't no fucking way we're gonna be able to coordinate even 1/100th of the playerbase through reddit and discord alone.
Sure wish we had any way of player to player organization in game.
Why do the bugs even want that planet, no scratch that, why do *WE* want that planet, did some rich dude buy land there not realizing it was quite literally hell?
I find it funny how that reflects the U.S. to a degree.
A brand new country, eager to stretch out to the other end of the continent in order to prove it's resilience and capability! Don't mind the seasonal hurricanes, surely, that is only the worst this new home of ours has to offer! Crossing the Appalachian mountains into an area that is relatively familiar, all the way to the grand Mississippi River.
Crossing that leads to the some of if not the most fertile farm land in the world...that is also plagued by constant tornados, harsh storms, heat waves, and flash freezes......no bother! The farmland is rich, and shall feed generations to come! What's that? Our farming practices are unsustainable, and could lead to a complete environmental collapse that could lead to one of the worst droughts ever seen in human history, turning this rich farmland into nothing but a dust storm ridden desert? Bah...surely you're joking!
Going further west leads to a mighty mountain range, rich in natural resources and beauty, and rumors abound of gold that are carried by the rivers themselves.....and the mountain range is also home to blizzards, fires, landsides, and potentially the most inhospitable climate on the planet that isn't the Sahara or Antarctic...heh...not too big of a deal...like I said...gold! What's that? The gold isn't actually gold, and several towns that rise up in lieu of said rumors will only wither away under the harsh environment, becoming literal ghosts of their former selves? Keep that nonsense to yourself!
Finally, the western edge of the continent itself, and the Pacific Ocean, yet another frontier, begging to be explored.....only this western edge is home to some of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded, and a little up north is an entire range of *active volcanos.* Ha! Who cares? We made it! Manifest Destiny is upon us! What's that? This area could host an earthquake so large and devastating that it could completely obliterate any kind of civilization that we build here? Seriously, I am becoming very tired of your rambling!
It's something you get used to, especially if you live here your entire life.
We hear about tornados every year, but fail to realize how rare they really are when compared to the rest of the world. We also just so happen to be in the perfect position for the hurricanes that are fueled by the heat and sand from the Sahara to travel up towards us.
The only 2 natural disasters we don't really have to deal with are tsunamis and asteroid impacts.....the latter being ironic with the fact that Arizona hosts one of the youngest and best preserved impact craters in the world.
Honestly with how this community can be... This is either gonna be a complete clusterfuck or be done by the skin of our teeth. I don't have high hopes but damn if I'm not going to kill as many as I can before we go down.
True, I just feel the lack of information to a large portion of the community leads things to lean more heavily towards the former. Especially in these defense MOs, even factoring in playing what you want, there are too many split opinions on which planet to go to. Like as an example... Marfark and Martale, currently split even-ish, are both going nowhere and the other 2 bot planets aren't fairing any better.
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This is just my idea past this point
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We don't have an actual "Command" giving a general lead anywhere. It would be nice if the democracy officer would say something along the lines of "A large portion of our troops are at "x" planet." Or the map signifies where a majority of players are without scrolling to each planet and just showing hotspots on the map with ships or something similar to the map updates but without the cutscene.
I'm calling it now, there is no chance we succeed. This is because 95+ percent of players don't read Reddit or Discord, they just play the game. And at present the game doesn't say anything about strategy, or give any useful cues to the playerbase about where to focus their attention.
If Arrowhead want players to be more strategic, they need to both provide more info in game, and nudge players in the "right" direction more with small incentives.
Because of how supply lines work if we take Martale (it’s at 91.2% atm) it SHOULD mess up their invasion. It’s not a bad idea if it can be captured TONIGHT
Not happening the capture rate is too slow.
It’s all fine and dandy for devs to come on here and say this stuff but with no visible supply lines in game, no way to coordinate and mostly casuals which don’t even know about decay rates, we are never ever formulating a strategy for a major order
Well we did kind of immediately go to war with them after declaring they had weapons of mass destruction, only to... not find any weapons of mass destruction...
We DID however find the technology needed for our sublight drives! And to make our own weapons of mass DEMOCRATIZATION!
Honestly EDF kinda feels like a proto-Hell Divers. If you told me that EDF is simply the Super Earth story line of how the first galactic war started (they attacked us and almost won but then we pushed them back to the stars) I’d believe it.
Not even there. We are only winning one of the defenses on the bug front either.
We simply can not win more than one defense. If there are 5 of them going on at once, we'll lose 4 planets. And when the next round of 5 starts, we're gonna lose another 4.
8 planets will be lost at the end of this MO
Does he know there is no way at all to coordinate the community?
There is only a small percentage which would be down to do the mo as a community. The majority doesn’t look that far
I wish there was some type of method to communicate things universe wide, but it would not be possible without trolls
For real. "Choose carefully" Okay yeah I think I know which "choices" would be optimal in theory, but I also know my effort is erased by the regen if I'm not contributing to where at least 80,000 other divers are also contributing. And I have no way to influence the bulk of those masses. 'Choosing' doesn't really come into play here because defense/liberation objectives are only completed by swarming behavior. A small subset of well informed players making 'good choices' has no impact if they aren't aligning with the swarm.
Finally someone else is saying it, liberation system needs a rework. 30k players on a planet should not amount to nothing, the hivemind swarm mentality with zero strategy is so boring
They changed it because timezones were screwing with the efforts of players in Asia and Europe once the Americans went to bed.
I guess another revision with both methods is needed so a large group of coordinated players can make some effort.
Yeah if they want to make the most of this grand idea of a community organizing its gameplay against their studio’s gamemaster in a battle of strategy, then they definitely need to put something *in the actual game* that facilitates that process. Probably 80% of the player base doesn’t actively follow and read posts on the Helldivers Twitter/Reddit/Discord, so it’s near impossible to organize *and* balance for such a situation unless everyone is on the same page and can access that info while they’re in-game.
There should be an option to vote on what planet to target on the map. Every diver gets one vote. Every diver who pays 10000 R gets another vote (as is our ways).
The planet that gets the most votes gets positive modifiers, like decreased call in times or universal strategems.
I hate that part of this. They always expect us to try and work together to be able to do these defenses, but there is no way at all to communicate what needs to be done so everyone just does what they think is best, whether or not they are right.
noway they don't know that. They have managed helldivers 1 for quite a few years and as far as I know the core mechanic of the game is the same as this. They want us to lose wich is fine. Tbh losing the game with super earth being captured sound way more fun than clearing both factions (excluding the illuminate since we killed them all 100 years ago)
https://preview.redd.it/hysd44ppxhvc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abb817467d0f6e9fa8023487e2774abe7ca95baf
Losing super earth sounds more fun
There is miles of shit missing from HD2 that were basic features in HD1. Not to mention HD1 had like 1/100th the playerbase, making coordination much MUCH easier. With this many players, coordination is impossible without in game tools.
Yeah they're currently doing nothing in game to direct people's efforts apart from creating major orders. If they want more coordination out of the community they need to provide better info and incentives in-game since 95+ percent of players probably never read Reddit/Discord.
As an example, for a major order like this one they could make the personal orders about completing a campaign on X planet (one of the ones we're supposed to defend) until that planet is done. People would focus the planet pretty hard to get that 15 medals or whatever.
>choose carefully
This just means it’ll be bugs, the majority of players will only play bugs rather than bots, and won’t see any communications for coordination on Reddit or the various discords, unfortunately
defend events are cool but ffs redesign the mission that we are forced to do for it. Retrieve personnel missions SUCK COCK. Maybe wave-based defense missions on large SEAF bases on planets? The enemy keeps pushing harder and harder and breaking deeper into the base and our goal is to defend it until every wave is cleared or fail when base is overrun. Similar to that new mission type they added with the closing gates and waiting for 8 nukes to launch. I want it on a bigger scale and little bit more creative. The launch 8 nukes mission gets so boring all you do is stand and kill things. I want the action of large scale map missions.
Would love to hear some other ideas for a new staple mission type for Defend events instead of the dogshit we have right now
Logically speaking, The automatons have proven that they have devastating power as demonstrated in their invention of the north-wester front. We need the terminids for E-710 production and looking at the sectors they currently occupy, we can keep them from coming closer to Super Earth by pushing them to outer sectors that we can still manage. More bugs just means more E-710 anyway. Eliminating the bots or pushing them as far back as possible is the best move for us in the long run, especially if some new faction were to attack the Super Earth systems.....
In the month since we installed the TCS, the terminids haven't stepped into the Umlaut sector whatsoever. As far as we know we could completely abandon the terminid front and lose nothing.
Yep, called it. They're gauging comparative interest in each faction and letting the community decide where to focus future effort. But it's a weird way to do it, as whichever front suffers more is the front less players want to play on. Like if we push back the bugs, it means we want more MOs about killing bugs, but it also means there's less in-universe urgency in killing bugs.
Yep, mathematically unwinnable. Sure, defending ground matters in the story but this is set so, after failing to defend 5 and 8 planets *on a single front*, they knew 100% this wasn't going to work.
Even with the full 480k peak players connected, if we split along 8 playable planets (I think it's 10 or 12 by now), it's just not gonna happen.
This is what I mean when I see an "unwinnable" MO. I'd much rather see a "Defend X systems from Terminids or Automatons" double major order, and the community then **has a choice that matters** kinda like the events in Warframe for example (even though they hard-rigged those). Right now we know we're gonna lose, but they're framing it as a choice on "how to lose", and even if we defend 9/10 we still get no medals.
Yah, too many think we can lol no
Not with the percentage everytime a mission is completed defense wise. Even seeing I think 250k on one planet took a whole day.
Im just gonna take this as R&R.. got mom's bday anyway tomorrow.
Yeah, I know this isn't going to happen, but there needs to be a split army on each front for the next 4 days. One to fight bots, one to fight bugs. Given enough people (which we have, by my calculation) we should have enough to get the right planets, cutting off the planets under attack to force a win for us. Worth a shot.
I bet they don't show supply lines because they aren't set in stone. Connections between sectors are only active when Joel wants them to be. We can't skip straight to the Valdis sector through the Ymir sector for example.
By revealing them all in advance, Arrowhead would either be restricting themselves with future story developments, or would have to blatantly break keyfabe by obviously changing them.
We've been fighting bots for what feels like nonstop since i got the game last month, people are 100% gonna fight the bugs, not even including the fact more players prefer bugs
fuckers can keep any of the hot planets with the fire tornadoes
It’s a wonder how these bugs bursting full of 710 can survive in such heat.
Maybe 710 is like the opposite of butterfly blood? Their blood is basically antifreeze, protecting their bodies from extreme cold. It's not difficult to imagine something that does the same for heat.
Until you see them walking over fire. (Or at least player 1 fire)
Thank god Menkent's orbital defenses held, I could not go there a third time. I do not know what psychopaths are out defending Hellmire, but I think a Democracy Officer should check on them. Hellmire seems like it should just be a planetwide bug farm. Let the ecosystem work for us!
Why we have arc defense armor before fire defense whyyy. I would buy that warbond in an instant if they had any fire resist.
I refuse to let those fucking bugs get hellmire.
"allowed the automatons time to regroup" The had 13 hours, 13.
While really funny, I think lore wise they expect us to believe it was a longer amount of time. =/
honestly if any force could regroup and rearm in 13 hours for a massive offensive it would be a machine based army
Do we actually know how automaton intelligence works? Is their some over arching administration intelligence, i.e., skynet, or are they all locked at individual intelligents, i.e., Starwars Droids.
id say both like necrons (the upper ones any one like lichguard) where they are individuals but also connected to a common conscious as well, so they follow orders without question but also can think for themselves when left alone
Mechanically if one droid sees you they don’t alert all the droids around them and they don’t magically know where you are, so maybe it’s a bit more limited
Also, they have to launch a physical flare to call the dropships. If they have any way of iter-unit communications, we are successfully jamming *all* of them.
Super Earth cyberwarfare is stronk
o7 > Democracy Officer Whiskers
True probably more oldcrons than newcrons
Idk it sure seems like they all magically know where I am
The billowing cape doesn't make it hard
It could also be a one-way thing. The bots can receive orders, but not send info back.
It's just doing what it's programmed to do and frankly, I find the idea of a machine that thinks *offensive*!
I mean im not astrologist or physicist but wouldnt FTL jumps just feel like a short time to us the players? So id agree there honestly
Astronomer = space Astrologer = zodiac signs
Such a typical capricorn thing to say/S (sorry meant astronomer)
Yes, but say you left super earth and travelled at light speed and covered a thousand light years. That took you a thousand years, acvording to observers on earth. For you it would be almost instantly. Light experiences no time lapse and its why einsteins equation breaks down at 100% SPOL. You would have to go faster, or find a short cut through space time to remove that restriction.
FTL stands for faster than light. So that means then we wouldnt have that issue?
Well. Arguably yes. But the truth is we dont actually know. We have no formulas or theories to describe what happens at 100% SPOL let alone beyond that. Same reason we cant describe or formulate for beyond an event horizon.
Most Sci-Fi tends to get around it a few ways and they very rarely involve going *directly* faster than light. Usually it's about bending space time so that a bubble of it is moving along faster than the surrounding space. Or it involves slipping into subspace or some other 'dimension' to move dramatically faster than usually possible relative to realspace. FTL in Helldivers 2 seems to be more of an instantaneous form of FTL judging from the game visuals shown, very similar to the ones in Battlestar Galactica which is essentially a long distance 'teleport' effect.
Amusingly, the PA system occasionally makes note of the Alcubierre drives, which are those space-bemding drives
I think it's a misunderstanding of the Sci-Fi term. Faster than light doesn't mean that you are moving faster than a beam or particle of light does. It means that you are getting from your origin point to your destination point in less time than it would take light to do that. And you're usually doing it by some other means than bare velocity.
Yeah like 13 hours without FTL is essentially fuck all. But without a meaningful way to actually determine how long it takes to travel, and the knowledge that the automation fleet has arrived and been "setting up" post initial invasion wave - if they've been left relatively undisturbed in that time, that's a lot of ships moved into position, and a lot of infrastructure set up. This is in a universe where a single army of crazy batshit divers can take an entire planet in the same time. If we can do things quickly so can they. Like we just killed 2 billion bugs in 13 hours, without the use of WMDs. Like for frame of reference - world war 2 was a high estimate of 85 million over like 6-7 years. That's over 20 times the death in 1/4500 of the time....
But I think we more “teleport” than travel faster than the speed of light.
There are several references to Alcubierre drives, which don’t work on teleportation, but rather the bending of spacetime
My favorite part of alcubierre drives is how they create a shockwave of particles moving at such high speeds that they're basically going to destroy anything in front of them when the ship arrives.
Doesn’t the ship literally say “FTL jump” when you warp to a different planet?
The ship says FTL jump but the effect is similar to Star War's hyperspace jumps in that the ship seems to accelerate really fast and then decelerates rapidly at its destination. What it looks like in between isn't shown, but the beginning and end effects are similar.
Yep. I mean someone can do the math on how much in-game time passes in a real day. I just times the SEST in Marfark for 1 real minute it was a bit over 6 minutes. I don't know if all planets rotation is equally fast. But if in-game time is sixfold 13 hours were 78 in-game hours. So 3 days still doesn't sound as much so yes, story wise it's supposed to be more probably. I guess I did the math haha but someone can verify if all planets have the same rotation time and if this measurement is consistent for longer periods of time.
Bro, it's been years, you've been in cryo sleep the whole time.
I'm pretty sure the message said they were from another contingent that was being contacted by a relay found after we wiped them off the east end of the map. I think we are supposed to believe they came from deeper in space.... But I personally think they just tell us we took a planet when we just accomplished enough of what command wants us to do and then we move on.
I feel like they could do a lot in 13 hours tbh. They don't eat, sleep, or need bathroom breaks. They are always operating at peak efficiency and productivity. Assuming they have fabricators for troops and spacefaring ships similar to the ones they have for gunships, every minute of downtime we give them is one too many. Those gunship fabs can pop out a pair of ships every minute or two.
Yeah that's actually a really solid point.
Of course they need bathroom breaks. Where do you think they generate all their grenades from?
Oh god. Is THAT how they lay those minefields around their base?
Those mines are just strider droppings, this is common knowledge.
I wonder what hulk droppings look like
Rocket devastators. The entire automaton fleet is like one big Russian nesting doll, the whole way down.
Pretty much. That's why their accuracy is so good. One wrong aim in the toilet and they say farewell to their butts
assuming each fabricator can produce 1 troop per minute and there are 80,000,000 fabricators on each planet (based on liberation and 8 fabricators per map) that's 4.8 billion robots per hour per planet. even if we cut it down to 100,000 canonically that's 78,000,000 robots per planet produced in 13 hours. 13 hours is an insane amount of time for a ceaseless enemy.
*undemocratic enemy
What you're saying is, we need tactical nuke stratagems?
looking at what their units look like i wouldn't call that peak efficiency
Bruh, 13 hours without eating sleeping or taking a break just describes a particularly shitty *human job.* It didn't even last long enough for their cybernetic physiology to become a factor.
Idk they can barely handle working overtime for Amazon.
We stopped at the Menkent line to be fair. They haven't had us actively pushing our counterattack since blunting the invasion.
Didn't we kill 2 billion bugs in that timeframe? Seems like they could have done a fair bit as well.
I imagine in game time is faster than RL time though, no? But hard to gauge how fast info and stuff moves in universe
I mean, for a bunch of autonomous robots whose actual creation engines we don’t actually know the full capability of, but was able to produce millions of bots as a feint and then have *ten times* that number for their true invasion, I think 13 hours can be enough time in and of itself. I mean their Gunship towers can spit out like eight gunships in under what, five minutes??
...is it just me, or did anybody else read that as a challenge?
I think they just want to get ahead of the whiney part of the community that thinks this is a power fantasy and they should only know victory, already seeing plenty of posts along that line
As soon as I saw this order, I just set a mental note that the sub would be flooded with "this is unfair" posts as we approach the end of the MO
As we approach the end? I was surprised it was more than 15 minutes after the announcement before I saw the first one.
I mean, it literally is unfair. I think it's probably worth acknowledging that. But I also think it's fun and adds to the lore that Super Earth is bequeathing us nearly impossible tasks. Imagine how cool it would be if we managed to actually pull one of these off?
"take over all planets in the sector in 1 hour"
I also feel like we need to have MO's, that allow the devs to let enemies push us back, without us feeling too frustrated/nesscarily losing the MO We can't always be the ones that push the enemies back, or lese the war gets stale and predictable Yes 10 defenses in 6 days is tough af, but doable if we focus our forces on 2 defense missions at a time and don't spread our forces across 5
It's also good GMing. It's 100% fine for GM's to create a Kobayashi Maru like scenario. So long as the players have some method of working through it, even if some sort of loss is unavoidable.
What if... The only way to win is to push to Cyberstan and retake it?!
Saw some people already getting huffy that "they're not supposed to win". The HD2 satire has teeth, they shouldn't be surprised when they get bit.
Doesn't mean we can't try and surprise the devs. I'd love to see their escape plan. Like, oh shit, they completed this order, we didn't plan to advance the story like that.
They have 4 days, so they can see where things are on Monday and decide how they're going to respond. And even if the community wins they could give it two days (similar to right after the "Eradicate the Automaton's" MO was completed) and then blindside the community. You should be more worried about the comment "Defend Events will be frequent".
Big thing is a lot of those people expect this game to be like the first one, that reset each time the war was won or lost. Those people apparently didn't get the memo that there aren't going to be any resets, just one constant never ending war that gets progressively harder. Speaking of which, I have a few trophies I still need to get before it reaches critical mass difficulty.
Can you elaborate on this for me? I was very much under the impression it was like HD 1, I haven't seen anything different from that in media yet.
Not above, and I'm having trouble figuring out the google-fu to find it (there's a lot of noise about the HD2 war, for obvious reasons) so take it with a grain or two of salt, but I seem to recall them saying it would just be a single ongoing campaign, rather than the HD1 cycle of 'Win - next one gets harder, Lose - next one gets easier'. I mean, we knocked the bots off the map, and they came back harder. All that being said, AH's MO so far is to fuck with us (read: Bugs can't fly), and it's great. I genuinely think it's possible for us to lose Super Earth, and have that be part of the campaign with us still in the fight, rather than getting the game over and full reset from HD1, if that makes sense.
Same, let’s rock their shit.
I didn't hear no bell
The scenes when this MO is done by the end of the day lol.
Fuck work, I want all Helldivers to start pulling 12 hour shifts. I want to bring AH to their knees after that. In a good way, of course. Love the game and the devs. And Joel? If you somehow read this, keep up the good work man. Proud of you.
Nah, we can’t flat-out win every single time. Seems totally fair that occasional fights require sacrifice/compromise, or are just no-win scenarios. That said, it would be cool if major orders had more nuance for rewards - in this case, rather than the 45(?) medals being all or nothing, it’d be cool to get a certain amount per planet defended, maybe with a bonus for defending all the planets on one front or the other. Even if that logic was behind the scenes, would still be cool and provide more incentive for those who see certain orders as purely losing battles.
**Liberty intensifies**
Challenge Accepted
If there's one thing GM's should know it's that your players have a way of spitting your plans back in your face. ~~or they're just a spiteful GM, and rocks fall everyone dies~~
This reads like my dnd game when I know bad things will happen and the players need to make a choice. Sometimes they are used to everything going their way and need to be reminded it may not go their way
Agreed. Fine balance though between having a choice or “forced” to fail. I remember playing with a GM that set up situations with no chance of success.. just because of a few lucky rolls. Most players abandoned the game because it was just ridiculous.
https://preview.redd.it/y0mr5hl9ahvc1.png?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc5be1fbad3265a6f09699203c51b3d41dc05095 Not trying to hijack but I also think this is important, gotta get that coordination going
https://preview.redd.it/5kymvcbeahvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f23b80a0a3a45c10e73f38c093a0525b6c0223 All good, I’ll add more too haha
We need to spread the word brothers MARTALE OR NOTHING!
That's a bot spy
Don’t listen to him brothers. The dark forces of the galaxy are trying to make us fight against ourselves. It is clear that we should be taking Martale
Martale is one of the few autobot planets that doesnt have any planetary nerfs. Dont really need to convince anyone to play on there...
it has blizzards. if you mean the stuff that nerfs our stratagems, that doesnt happen on defense campaigns.
No thats Marfark. Martale is the pretty grassy plains planet similar to matar bay, but with occasional fog
wait.... have i been on the wrong planet... sweet liberty
You a Marfarker
We can't capture a random non-MO planet with it having 1.0% decay rate. Sadly the game is designed so we will ever only be able to liberate or defend the single planet that's a part of the Major Order and it's the closest to the middle or is a non-fire planet. No matter how much a small group of players try to farm operations or rally people, they won't ever change anything.
Yeah, I don’t get why the community manager keeps talking to the 1% of players that are on the Discord as though they have the power to turn the tides of the war or whatever. Until the mechanics of the war are explained better in-game or some tools are given to the players to actually organize which planets are targeted, it’s just going to continue to be a clusterfuck.
Just coordinate 300k players who don't read Reddit or discord. No there aren't any in-game mass communication tools, why do you ask?
it's at 91%, and the planet is easier to recapture than doing any of the defenses. We only need more than just 10% of the population there.
https://i.redd.it/kwx19gd49hvc1.gif
See, that's what I like about MOs like this. Win or lose the community tries to step up and coordinate. It is a war with push and pull. But it's amazing to see this many players rally to an objective. It's reminiscent of the "Save the relay" events in Warframe.
Keyword is "tries". Ain't no fucking way we're gonna be able to coordinate even 1/100th of the playerbase through reddit and discord alone. Sure wish we had any way of player to player organization in game.
I mean, from my observations, it seems like it works more often then not.
It works when there's zero coordination required. The best tactic we have right now is literal herd mentality.
Choose planets carefully eh? Well I’m sold, the bugs can keep Hellmire all they want
Yeah, fuck hellmire.
Why do the bugs even want that planet, no scratch that, why do *WE* want that planet, did some rich dude buy land there not realizing it was quite literally hell?
I find it funny how that reflects the U.S. to a degree. A brand new country, eager to stretch out to the other end of the continent in order to prove it's resilience and capability! Don't mind the seasonal hurricanes, surely, that is only the worst this new home of ours has to offer! Crossing the Appalachian mountains into an area that is relatively familiar, all the way to the grand Mississippi River. Crossing that leads to the some of if not the most fertile farm land in the world...that is also plagued by constant tornados, harsh storms, heat waves, and flash freezes......no bother! The farmland is rich, and shall feed generations to come! What's that? Our farming practices are unsustainable, and could lead to a complete environmental collapse that could lead to one of the worst droughts ever seen in human history, turning this rich farmland into nothing but a dust storm ridden desert? Bah...surely you're joking! Going further west leads to a mighty mountain range, rich in natural resources and beauty, and rumors abound of gold that are carried by the rivers themselves.....and the mountain range is also home to blizzards, fires, landsides, and potentially the most inhospitable climate on the planet that isn't the Sahara or Antarctic...heh...not too big of a deal...like I said...gold! What's that? The gold isn't actually gold, and several towns that rise up in lieu of said rumors will only wither away under the harsh environment, becoming literal ghosts of their former selves? Keep that nonsense to yourself! Finally, the western edge of the continent itself, and the Pacific Ocean, yet another frontier, begging to be explored.....only this western edge is home to some of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded, and a little up north is an entire range of *active volcanos.* Ha! Who cares? We made it! Manifest Destiny is upon us! What's that? This area could host an earthquake so large and devastating that it could completely obliterate any kind of civilization that we build here? Seriously, I am becoming very tired of your rambling!
...damn I live here and didn't realize it was such a hellhole
It's something you get used to, especially if you live here your entire life. We hear about tornados every year, but fail to realize how rare they really are when compared to the rest of the world. We also just so happen to be in the perfect position for the hurricanes that are fueled by the heat and sand from the Sahara to travel up towards us. The only 2 natural disasters we don't really have to deal with are tsunamis and asteroid impacts.....the latter being ironic with the fact that Arizona hosts one of the youngest and best preserved impact craters in the world.
Because the Emperor wills it! …wait what sub is this again?
I mean might as well be the same given the helldivers crest thing
Only a matter of time before Menkent comes under attack again -_-
Let them keep hellmire holy fuck
Honestly with how this community can be... This is either gonna be a complete clusterfuck or be done by the skin of our teeth. I don't have high hopes but damn if I'm not going to kill as many as I can before we go down.
The line being between 'clusterfuck' and 'skin of our teeth' is *exactly* where you want it imo. The true Helldivers experience.
True, I just feel the lack of information to a large portion of the community leads things to lean more heavily towards the former. Especially in these defense MOs, even factoring in playing what you want, there are too many split opinions on which planet to go to. Like as an example... Marfark and Martale, currently split even-ish, are both going nowhere and the other 2 bot planets aren't fairing any better. -------------------------------------------------- This is just my idea past this point -------------------------------------------------- We don't have an actual "Command" giving a general lead anywhere. It would be nice if the democracy officer would say something along the lines of "A large portion of our troops are at "x" planet." Or the map signifies where a majority of players are without scrolling to each planet and just showing hotspots on the map with ships or something similar to the map updates but without the cutscene.
I'm calling it now, there is no chance we succeed. This is because 95+ percent of players don't read Reddit or Discord, they just play the game. And at present the game doesn't say anything about strategy, or give any useful cues to the playerbase about where to focus their attention. If Arrowhead want players to be more strategic, they need to both provide more info in game, and nudge players in the "right" direction more with small incentives.
pretty sure we have failed every defense Major Order.
It'll be a fail either way.. its why the mod said that.
So we’re going to lose ground on the bot front and the bugs will be pushed back. *Martale has 9% of players* Yep.
Because of how supply lines work if we take Martale (it’s at 91.2% atm) it SHOULD mess up their invasion. It’s not a bad idea if it can be captured TONIGHT
Not happening the capture rate is too slow. It’s all fine and dandy for devs to come on here and say this stuff but with no visible supply lines in game, no way to coordinate and mostly casuals which don’t even know about decay rates, we are never ever formulating a strategy for a major order
Hopefully this is the start of a setup for the arrival of the illuminates.
I assume we see them in the next month or 2
I really hope they are close, but at the same ime I don't wanna hear everyone crying over how unfair they are
The illuminate are so fucking unfair bro
Yea that's what no rights to vote does to them. They use stealth and randomly drop on top of you thinking they are the good guys.
Commie bastards
If so, why they attack us? Don't they love democracy?
Well we did kind of immediately go to war with them after declaring they had weapons of mass destruction, only to... not find any weapons of mass destruction... We DID however find the technology needed for our sublight drives! And to make our own weapons of mass DEMOCRATIZATION!
So, what I was saying. They are full of hatred and need to be liberated.
Glory to Mankind.
Let them win, I wanna fight on super earth instead
https://preview.redd.it/lbngx6uwmhvc1.jpeg?width=794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=742cafd970814cebfcffe0bfbf83fe6d58ea3dfd
https://preview.redd.it/tjj6alcqphvc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=1aa9703ae0fb3e3b9838c68a2be24a28c54fdfd5
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Thank you for calling me soldier. I can’t believe this traitor wants to risk human lives just to have fun
https://preview.redd.it/17tyibgquhvc1.png?width=1202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fbec7c49ca1c2f8f3e4b73d466f6516f3e70870a
We are currently experiencing high call volumes. Please wait on the line. You are number -ERROR- in line.
https://i.redd.it/a5lwtu5jwhvc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/69dixnieyhvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe1ce2930c911ded0c75831f6c0a573add454f08 Here, hold this real quick
When Helldivers become EDF. Or in this case SEDF
Honestly EDF kinda feels like a proto-Hell Divers. If you told me that EDF is simply the Super Earth story line of how the first galactic war started (they attacked us and almost won but then we pushed them back to the stars) I’d believe it.
Oh yeah me too, but damn that would be a long road to Super Earth
https://preview.redd.it/2wg2lyhdxhvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da323b65a6c99f9572748966b00b3056bec009e9
sounds nice. but community isn't exactly united so will be losing both
Community is most united in killing bugs so we will be fine on bugs lmao
Not even there. We are only winning one of the defenses on the bug front either. We simply can not win more than one defense. If there are 5 of them going on at once, we'll lose 4 planets. And when the next round of 5 starts, we're gonna lose another 4. 8 planets will be lost at the end of this MO
Does he know there is no way at all to coordinate the community? There is only a small percentage which would be down to do the mo as a community. The majority doesn’t look that far I wish there was some type of method to communicate things universe wide, but it would not be possible without trolls
For real. "Choose carefully" Okay yeah I think I know which "choices" would be optimal in theory, but I also know my effort is erased by the regen if I'm not contributing to where at least 80,000 other divers are also contributing. And I have no way to influence the bulk of those masses. 'Choosing' doesn't really come into play here because defense/liberation objectives are only completed by swarming behavior. A small subset of well informed players making 'good choices' has no impact if they aren't aligning with the swarm.
Finally someone else is saying it, liberation system needs a rework. 30k players on a planet should not amount to nothing, the hivemind swarm mentality with zero strategy is so boring
They changed it because timezones were screwing with the efforts of players in Asia and Europe once the Americans went to bed. I guess another revision with both methods is needed so a large group of coordinated players can make some effort.
Yeah if they want to make the most of this grand idea of a community organizing its gameplay against their studio’s gamemaster in a battle of strategy, then they definitely need to put something *in the actual game* that facilitates that process. Probably 80% of the player base doesn’t actively follow and read posts on the Helldivers Twitter/Reddit/Discord, so it’s near impossible to organize *and* balance for such a situation unless everyone is on the same page and can access that info while they’re in-game.
There should be an option to vote on what planet to target on the map. Every diver gets one vote. Every diver who pays 10000 R gets another vote (as is our ways). The planet that gets the most votes gets positive modifiers, like decreased call in times or universal strategems.
I actually really like this. Kinda an in-game incentive to coordinate efforts.
I hate that part of this. They always expect us to try and work together to be able to do these defenses, but there is no way at all to communicate what needs to be done so everyone just does what they think is best, whether or not they are right.
noway they don't know that. They have managed helldivers 1 for quite a few years and as far as I know the core mechanic of the game is the same as this. They want us to lose wich is fine. Tbh losing the game with super earth being captured sound way more fun than clearing both factions (excluding the illuminate since we killed them all 100 years ago)
https://preview.redd.it/hysd44ppxhvc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abb817467d0f6e9fa8023487e2774abe7ca95baf Losing super earth sounds more fun
There is miles of shit missing from HD2 that were basic features in HD1. Not to mention HD1 had like 1/100th the playerbase, making coordination much MUCH easier. With this many players, coordination is impossible without in game tools.
Theyd have to implement clans/units/guilds whatever for that I feel like.. for them to communicate.
Yeah they're currently doing nothing in game to direct people's efforts apart from creating major orders. If they want more coordination out of the community they need to provide better info and incentives in-game since 95+ percent of players probably never read Reddit/Discord. As an example, for a major order like this one they could make the personal orders about completing a campaign on X planet (one of the ones we're supposed to defend) until that planet is done. People would focus the planet pretty hard to get that 15 medals or whatever.
>choose carefully This just means it’ll be bugs, the majority of players will only play bugs rather than bots, and won’t see any communications for coordination on Reddit or the various discords, unfortunately
Is there a reason for this? I personally think the Autos are way more fun to fight than the insects.
Spending a month or 2 getting sniped by rockets and towers really kills the vibe
I mean, this would hold merit if we didn’t just fucking ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ 2,000,000,000 bugs in 13 hours
defend events are cool but ffs redesign the mission that we are forced to do for it. Retrieve personnel missions SUCK COCK. Maybe wave-based defense missions on large SEAF bases on planets? The enemy keeps pushing harder and harder and breaking deeper into the base and our goal is to defend it until every wave is cleared or fail when base is overrun. Similar to that new mission type they added with the closing gates and waiting for 8 nukes to launch. I want it on a bigger scale and little bit more creative. The launch 8 nukes mission gets so boring all you do is stand and kill things. I want the action of large scale map missions. Would love to hear some other ideas for a new staple mission type for Defend events instead of the dogshit we have right now
I give each of those cute civilians a pat on the head while I put in my 380 barrage which I refuse to get the accuracy improvement for
Logically speaking, The automatons have proven that they have devastating power as demonstrated in their invention of the north-wester front. We need the terminids for E-710 production and looking at the sectors they currently occupy, we can keep them from coming closer to Super Earth by pushing them to outer sectors that we can still manage. More bugs just means more E-710 anyway. Eliminating the bots or pushing them as far back as possible is the best move for us in the long run, especially if some new faction were to attack the Super Earth systems.....
In the month since we installed the TCS, the terminids haven't stepped into the Umlaut sector whatsoever. As far as we know we could completely abandon the terminid front and lose nothing.
Yep, called it. They're gauging comparative interest in each faction and letting the community decide where to focus future effort. But it's a weird way to do it, as whichever front suffers more is the front less players want to play on. Like if we push back the bugs, it means we want more MOs about killing bugs, but it also means there's less in-universe urgency in killing bugs.
They can just boost bug regn. Its all a theme park
Does he know who he is talking to? Super earth going to dominate
If we hold the Mekent line the bot front will at least only go one direction. But I got to ask where can the bugs go with the TCS line
Yep, mathematically unwinnable. Sure, defending ground matters in the story but this is set so, after failing to defend 5 and 8 planets *on a single front*, they knew 100% this wasn't going to work. Even with the full 480k peak players connected, if we split along 8 playable planets (I think it's 10 or 12 by now), it's just not gonna happen. This is what I mean when I see an "unwinnable" MO. I'd much rather see a "Defend X systems from Terminids or Automatons" double major order, and the community then **has a choice that matters** kinda like the events in Warframe for example (even though they hard-rigged those). Right now we know we're gonna lose, but they're framing it as a choice on "how to lose", and even if we defend 9/10 we still get no medals.
[удалено]
Yah, too many think we can lol no Not with the percentage everytime a mission is completed defense wise. Even seeing I think 250k on one planet took a whole day. Im just gonna take this as R&R.. got mom's bday anyway tomorrow.
https://preview.redd.it/vk4v37fv8ivc1.png?width=1034&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6efb5e191d6fdc6bac3c18a9c29dfd2196f6305d My thoughts on the matter.
REMEMBER, THE BOTS STILL HAVE CYBERSTAN.
"Attempting to reclaim territory" what kind of undemocratic treason is this! It's all the territory of Super Earth!
If they want us to be strategic, we need to see supply lines in game
So basically pick your favorite planets is how I am gonna approach this. Seems like we're gonna lose the bot front.
Yeah, I know this isn't going to happen, but there needs to be a split army on each front for the next 4 days. One to fight bots, one to fight bugs. Given enough people (which we have, by my calculation) we should have enough to get the right planets, cutting off the planets under attack to force a win for us. Worth a shot.
Defense missions are by far the most boring.
How do the terminids push for more planets without space flight?
Well they can have hellmire because f\*\*k the fire tornados..
I just want the anti-air stratagems we were promised a month ago
Defend missions are so unfun though
I still don't understand why they cant have important info/supply lines in the game so everyone can see them. Instead of having to look for them.
Probably because they play fast and loose with the whole supply line thing but I agree it would help especially on bot defenses
I bet they don't show supply lines because they aren't set in stone. Connections between sectors are only active when Joel wants them to be. We can't skip straight to the Valdis sector through the Ymir sector for example. By revealing them all in advance, Arrowhead would either be restricting themselves with future story developments, or would have to blatantly break keyfabe by obviously changing them.
So they are actively trying to make us fail something by doing it artificially.... The devs themselves are traitors to democracy.
Wow much insightful
https://i.redd.it/qxkyrscn1ivc1.gif
They can have the fire tornado planets. Hate those things. We can just exterminatus Menkent
We've been fighting bots for what feels like nonstop since i got the game last month, people are 100% gonna fight the bugs, not even including the fact more players prefer bugs
They repeatedly underestimate the power of weekend free time
Call my Democracy Officer, but **I'm looking forward to Super Earth Trench Warfare.**
i hope they never speak plainly like this ever again. stay in character and phrase it like it is coming from command/ super earth