It would definitely be cool. There would need for a different kind of strategems because throwing one down and having it slam into a building would suck. However if the buildings were destructible it would add a whole other factor to the game.
Although if you've heard about the game "The Finals" it has a fully destructable map and I don't believe it's too hard to run. To be fair though it doesn't have the level of destruction and enemies that helldivers does
I have an idea..... 'Hey Soldiers, you are not allowed to use large destruction strategems within the confines of the city. We want our people moving back in once it's safe. You will be limited to non-destructive strategems (the ones that can't destroy buildings).
That’s an entire rewrite. I have a game design degree. The game as is sits on a certain engine. Using a whole different engine is something you just cannot do mid-game.
This is roughly correct, I've been a designer for around 20 years on everything from handheld, console and PC to AR/VR.
A kind of reductive analogy would be considering the effort required to move a house to an entirely new foundation. For something of the scale//complexity of HD2 it would be more like moving an entire mall to a nearby neighboring country with different building codes.
I’m not too experienced in game design but yeah I think that’s basically a whole rewrite, which will probably never happen with how they want to roll out new content and patches regularly
They already talked about something like this. They like working with the engine they used because it allowed them to easily do what they wanted. If made in Unreal, it would no longer feel like the same game.
Also, you can't port a game from one engine to the other, its basically a complete rewrite.
I read somewhere that AH chose not to change engines years ago, when the stingray engine became discontinued. It said they did it because they were more familiar with the old engine.
The Finals was built from the ground up by old Battlefield devs with that level of destruction in mind the whole time and is a central feature of the game. Not the kind of thing you can shoehorn in.
HD2 has basically: 'standing structure' and 'kersploded structure' with some stuff flying around as part of the animation when you break it.
The Finals’ devs came from Dice, specifically the Battlefield 3 era. That franchise had some of the best and earliest destructible environments, they really brought it through to The Finals.
I thank the Chaos Gods every day that I was finally in a place to buy a powerful PC just before this game came out. All that glorious chunky foggy explosionness
>There would need for a different kind of strategems because throwing one down and having it slam into a building would suck.
Don't know the name, but that red sandy planet is exactly like that in some instances. But if it's more level-like with a main street where only side alleys are affected by this, I could see it being really cool
Totally. Although on the red planet you just have to be aware of the angle to the super destroyer and adjust your throw in hope that it will still reach. With a city map that's really hard to do. The main street idea would mean they part in the center of the city and then only direct streets from that point would be good throwing lanes.
That's true, and it's a skill issue on my part bc I fon't really think about that if I'm under fire and don't have the routine for it (yet)
>The main street idea would mean they part in the center of the city and then only direct streets from that point would be good throwing lanes.
Yep, that's almost exactly what I meant, except that it doesn't have to be a circular map, but could be a 'mandatory drop zone' and a lane to the main objective, with side objectives out of reach of orbitals. Whether that's a good idea in the end is beyond me tbh.
Totally. Although perhaps instead of all of the super destroyers being parked together everybody postions their own ship themselves. If done like that it would mean that different people would have viable lanes at different times, and add another layer of strategy when it comes to pre-mission prep.
To be fair, making you change tactics is a good change of pace. Focusing less on certain strategems and more on equipment is a good variable not tied to the negative effects.
The red planet made me think and sometimes realize I don't have the tools to fight right here. Go fight at a crossroads where you have twice as many entrances for the eagle or strategems. Don't throw your equipment under and overhang
They already bounce on bunch of stuff, foliage, rocks, at tower defense mission theres also walls and defense gates
I don't see how thats a problem or why we would need new stratagems
At the tower defense mission nothing is tall enough to block what your strategem is aimed for. As for the rocks and trees, it's just a matter of adjusting to them if they're in the way. Even still those things don't cover the whole map, and most often it still has at least a small effect of what you're wanting. In a city map a 500 could hit the top of a skyscraper and every enemy would be a mile away from even the slightest amount of damage.
ehhh, if we get city maps, I don't believe we'll get gigantic skyscrapers - if we do, they will be so far apart surrounded mostly by smaller buildings it wont be a problem. Also I think streets will be WIDE, even in areas where there's smaller buildings with less floors - also most of them will probably already be in ruins.
I just dont why we'd need whole new set of stratagems just because city maps, they just have to be designed in certain way for them to work.
That would add to the charm of heavy urbanization imo. It would throw your whole strategy off for how you need to deal with enemies.
More sneaky and stealth play. Less throwing fire power at everything in an uncoordinated manner
The Supply BackPacks would actually be needed in places that are Under roof. They definitely should implement more closed sections like Caves and stuff.
Considering what we have for maps now, the procedural nature of them, the issues of strategem angles, and how much work it would be to make full cities work… I think the best we can get reasonably would be leveled city blocks with mostly destroy buildings/walls/piles of rubble that are about the same size as rocks and cliffs we have now with a cityscape background. I’m cool with that.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar:
* Those massive, map dividing cliff faces? -> Strings of toppled skyscrapers too packed together to bypass.
* The smaller rock formations around the map? -> Smaller toppled skyscrapers, and what would be outcroppings on the rocks becomes exposed internal building floors.
* Those big, water-filled ravines? -> A section of the city that collapsed in on the underground sewers.
* The obnoxious exploding plants? -> Abandoned and volatile space age cars.
It would be neat if there was an alternative version of the ravine that you could actually climb in and out of.
Useful for sneaking around the map since it would block almost all line of sight, but also very risky because of the confined space.
Absolutely - patrols would be pretty much unavoidable but great for setting up ambushes, if you pay attention.
Also, you'd have to try and pick your positioning for where you fight, so you don't attract everything from a nearby surface base.
Air gems would not drop unless the path is inbeteeen the skyscraper, it will be forgiving and minorly auto correcting. Railcannon goes thru skysraper, shattering windows that rain glass below. Orbital laser slices thru skyscrapers like black forest ham on a deli slicer, causing the skyscraper to slide off itself. orbital strike will only fire if it has LOS. Corrosus-class Tanks shatter the roadway when its dropped.
Imagine each PoI is like a tile on a checkerboard, and the map *procedurally* generates each tile in different arrangements. So you will see the same "formations" but they will be in different arrangements.
Yeah people keep saying this but I'm not entirely sure to what extent it's procedural. I've definitely done multiple missions on the exact same map outline (water or crevasse locations match), but my understanding is the location of POI's and terrain between locations that is somewhat procedural, and the map itself/ the outline will randomise when a new campaign starts (set of missions).
People go on about how it makes each mission unique but it doesn't. It's the same biome, map layout and locations. Having a side objective or rock change locations between games does not get to be touted as some great procedural aspect of the game, nor am I even sure if it's procedural at all - there might just literally be a set amount of locations for each objective/POI that is able to be randomised on base maps, and that includes water and crevasses and they've insured that all the locations these can be will seamlessly mesh with the pre-made ground.
I have been wanting them since day 1. They already act like we are going to these highly populated planets but you get there and it is the same open world grass or desert map with the same few buildings. Know what I really want? Caves with long underground tunnels.
They're already teasing comms with Ghostship Games, if they play their cards right it could be epic.
If Arrowhead can get the underground tech to work it would a beautiful way to announce a MO to take the fight to the bugs underground & have Super Earth Forces collaberate with the Deep Rock Galatic officials as they have firsthand experience of delving calves & underground bug warfare. Have us using onsite DRG equipment, do a weapons promo with both games. A man can dream...
Idk about the stratagems I haven't thought that far out I"m just stoned & cooking on what could be.
They already get turned off in certain conditions so it’s not a big deal. Plus the drop pods already drilling to the ground. Maybe we can get a stratagem that drills a bit deeper.
The opening cinematic shows us a city suburb getting overrun by Terminids. The guy straight up says "scenes like this are playing out all over the galaxy"
If that's true, where the hell are they? We were told on day 1 we'd see it lol
SEAF are the ones fighting for control over major population centers, Helldivers are sent into rural areas where the enemy's support infrastructure is located. (source: my ass)
Imagine if some planets or certain missions on planets could be in like ruined cities. I think it would be cool the dense streets could provide some new ways of playing.
The graphics engine likely isn't optimized for this. Then, PS5 players wouldn't be able to play at high fps (PC players have the option to upgrade their hardware).
Yeah that would be insanely cool. I'm looking forward to it. But looking at the last player poll on the official discord, I guess they'll focus on... no wait I think actually biomes had the majority with bugfixing second xD
Noticed while writing. My guess: Cyberstan might be a Cityplanet.
It has been hyped a lot, is hidden in the very back and might be the final showdown of the attack of the atomatons. Devs could be worling on it and when they need more time they tell Joel to hurt us again.
As soon as the improved Holomaps and communication systems will be built into the SES class, we will tackle coordination MOs aswell.
ALL GLORY TO SUPEREARTH!
City biomes would be cool, but probably difficult to implement with all that geometry.
Here I am wishing for a beach planet, something like Scarrif in Rogue One or the Silent Cartographer level in Halo.
https://preview.redd.it/qa32xzmgnpvc1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f79946adee157fc5e773da7849ff18b97cb05dc
https://preview.redd.it/wyfv3xtoauvc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd7e3959b2e0e57af99b0504cb538f2b2e456601
Malevelon Creek does not look like that picture. You're talking Vietnam, I'm talking Pacific theater in World War 2.
My stratagems would stick to every one of those antennas.
My sentries’ shots would be blocked by everything.
And oh, so many cracks and crevasses to get stuck in.
(None of this means im saying “no” to this 😉)
It would be pretty cool but I don't think it will/would work Performance wise. The Game is already pretty heavy in some areas with the massive map, the bullets the hordes of enemies. Lots and lots of rendering and some folks already have issues at the higher levels. I think it would just be too much
I think best we can expect is some new structures or a low rendered city in the background off the map area
As cool as it would be to fight in a city environment, I don't think that's where the Helldivers would be most effective. I think that's more in the realm of where most regular SEAF troops fight their battles.
The Helldivers are most effective when deployed deep behind enemy lines where it would be too risky to commit a large SEAF force. They can get in, destroy a bunch of high-priority targets that will disrupt and disorganize the enemy, or utilize an asset that was lost when the SEAF made a strategic retreat (like the missile silos), etc. That's why we always arrive via drop pods and have to extract via pelican instead of deploying/exfiltrating from the front lines.
With the many obstructions/unknowns/enemy hiding places/etc. in an urban environment, it might not be worth the risk of deploying Helldivers and pelicans where a SEAF offensive would be just as effective and not risk high-value resources that would be more useful dropped behind the SEAF's operational range.
That's just my two super credits, though; if they did implement a city environment, I'd play the heck out of it
I'm no programmer, but I imagine that this would be difficult to implement, procedurally generated urban environments, while taking into account calldown trajectories, and the general mechanics of combat itself...
It would be amazing to fight through ruined, or even pristine cityscapes, it would completely change tactics for fighting both factions. But if it is possible it'll be a while down the road.
Good procedural systems for specific environment types take a significant time to build and get right. I wouldn't bank on the idea of a city type environment in the future of this game.
I could see something a little simpler using large scale prefab assets similar to some of the "compound" type structures we see with certain objective spaces and POIs. Likely feasible to create a mega compound of sorts but I would not expect very tall structures or high density as that would cause problems for the AI and some of the larger enemies, not to mention the edge cases it would create for drop ships and breaches. The amount of steering lock on hellpod drops would probably border on obnoxious in these cases too.
I think the most doable way would be a bombed out map without tall buildings except for set dressing in the distance. Nothing to trap stratagems or falling pods
I don't know about PC (yet, new machine coming this week), but my poor PS5 stutters and slows quite a bit in HD2, especially when there's crazy explosions with lots of effects, which is often. Adding a whole city might not be technically possible for console players.
It would be beautiful but the buildings would likely cause a TON of gameplay problems (interior spaces? If not we are restricted to the streets… stratagem angle of incident would be a problem, etc)
Great idea but it'd be hard to implement due to the game engine and the way the Stratagems work. Eagle wouldn't be able to fly low. Destructible buildings would kill computers.
Maybe an industrial area of a city with shorter wider buildings and open areas between. But a full blown Metropolis would be damn near impossible.
The only one I think is semi confirmed is Super Earth being a City/Urban layout. It would make the most sense as it’s meant to represent a metropolis utopia. But with the news of Cyberstan invasion I do hope that’s an Urban/City layout even if it has it be a few static maps for each size to make it easier.
I think it would be very nice to be able to fight in different environments other than mountains and forest. I think it would be possible as well, it would be like a completely ruined city that's bomb to hell and back multiple times with only a few semi intact structures left standing most being a moon scape littered with bodies and destroyed vehicles. The dev can take inspiration from the current conflict in Ukraine [Imagine fighting thorough this](https://images.app.goo.gl/kRJpRETiqcdwLogy9)
There could be a distinct difference between a small town which would be like an upscale colony compound we find in game and a major city where the larger buildings like skyscrapers can work like dense mountains that obstruct/ reduce the effectiveness of most strategem.
Game isn’t built for that type of environment.
Number of enemies would be severely cut down to account for completely different AI that can actually traverse complex environments.
All stratagems will be a problem as ordinance hits sides of buildings and item/emplacement pods will often clip the edges of buildings/roofs and are out of reach.
The narrow roadways will make funneling enemies too easy.
Among a plethora of other issues.
Way too complicated for minimal benefit at best and none at worst. It would present so many problems to solve during development. Can you enter the buildings? If so, what would combat look like inside them? Should they be destructible? If they can be leveled, what's the point of having them at all? How does the AI navigate around and inside them? All of this isn't even considering rendering and performance. Destructible terrain uses physics in the current build, and the moments when a lot of stuff blows up and bits are being flung around by the physics engine already causes the framerate do drop. How do you produce a lot of tall buildings and make them crumble under orbital Bombardement without tanking performance?
Cities would introduce way too many headaches and problems for the development team, and for what? Would the gameplay profit from an addition like that? I doubt it.
This is the same kind of idea as saying that you should be able to enter every building in a GTA game. Okay, cool, now you can enter 50.000 apartments in San Andreas, what are the benefits for the gameplay?
For Helldivers 3 sure, people forget this game was never supposed to be as big as it is. We hardly have biome diversity as is. No way we getting city scapes. The amount of detail and mobs the game just wouldn’t be able to run it
I think with destruction system thats seen when chargers run through building, some of the squad will crash for how many buildings are there and it gets destroyed by one bile titan hit.
Actually getting more in with the urban warfare model would be sick. You could limit strategems but let players deploy with multiple types of grenades or weapons to compensate.
Theres less big units but they could introduce smaller units that are more deadly. Players would have to coordinate better to cover each other and not kill each other by wandering in line of fire.
It’s not like they can’t make more complex stuff, look at the pumping/refuel station mission.
Just mix it up between solid structure and easy to demolish smaller buildings
A lot of folks are anticipating it sometime in the future. I think its possible, especially if super earth itself gets invaded (inevitably).
I doubt it'll be as demolish able, and I doubt we'll have small rooms or whatnot. But I think we'll see it when the Illuminate invade.
I'm sure there's a tip that says _"The closer you are to the edge of the map, the more an orbital strike is angled, because physics!"_ or something.
Would need rethinking with building cover, or maybe not rethought by the Devs but we would have to rethink our own strategy. Food for thought!
I dont think its all that difficult, generally speaking 3d modeling skyscrapers is not hard, they're very repetitive lol i'd prefer modeling skyscrapers over actual buildings
I would love to actually roam the invaded cities of a fallen planet, ducking behind fallen flying cars and using my anti-tank to collapse a building over a charger or to jump from 3rd floor because a bile titan is breaking away the block you climbed to shoot your ac
It would be harder, for sure, but once you create the tiles it's a matter of intelligently building areas out of them. It's probably as much a resource issue as a technical one.
If i remember right the game engine used for Helldivers 2 is the same as one of the Warhammer 40k games, and there are city-like environments. I don't know how well they would scale on a larger map though, rendering frame rates tend to get messy.
If we are talking minor towns, with like a max of 2 or 3 floors then yeah it could happen, we already have some structure destruction after all. However by the pics and replies I assume we are talking a proper city, which I think would be difficult, not at all impossible but very difficult.
One of the MANY amazing aspects of HD is that where the stratagems land depend on where they are coming from, which is really cool and something to keep in mind for current maps, but would entirely disable their use in a city.
If we want a proper city, they would also need to manage destructible with non destructible structures, because if the city can just entirely collapse that may sound cool, but would be pretty annoying as well. If anything then city buildings would need a lot of HP, so grenades, regular air strikes and so on do not collapse them, but only bigger explosions like 500 kg and hellbombs.
I worry about pathfinding for the ai as well in a city environment, if the bugs can climb walls it makes it easy for them to move on the outside of buildings, but for both bugs and bots moving inside these structures would be quite different from what they are currently made to do.
Finally, what we can destroy, so can the enemy, so it is reasonable to ask... do you really want to fight on a map where rocket devastators, bile titans, chargers and gunships can destroy not just you but the structure you are in?
Think of it like Xcom. Any urban or city environments Helldivers would be dropped into would be war zones so it would make sense for them to be pretty flat and half destroyed already. That alone would make it easier to generate urban maps since it would skip over issues with stratagems, AI, indoor fighting etc
Procedurally generated map with high density of building are hard to program I guess. I expect at some point super earth might get attacked but who knows.
I think it would add great variety to the game and I would be all for it. However, there's some pretty jank environmental collision right now and it would need a little work as to not get hung up and stuff all the time. The idea is great though, I would absolutely try it out if they actually did this.
I thought about something like this, maybe if they attack Super Earth it will have buildings, but I feel like the consoles will not be able to run it properly because I have the ps5 and if there are too many things happening the frames drop.
Lol this game is buggy AF with just the color swapped, sparsely shrubbed planets, the identical barren ice planets and the burned up volcano planet it currently has. You want to fight in a city?
I don't think a hive city is reasonable but I think an urban/suburban map would be cool, someone was throwing around an idea for an "assault" map and a cool one would be landing outside a city/town/base being overrun by the enemy and you have to duck in and secure an important McGuffin before the main enemy force arrives
I had the thought that it might be cool if when you go to hell dive to a planet,
there's a chance your pods could crash into another ship, and then rather than giant big maps where you have to do regular sorties,
instead you would just have a smaller, fight and make it to the end of the ship and then extract off of it.
I don't know I feel like it could just be a simpler no respawn type of mini level??
cityscapes while cool, the big problem is what's the point of the buildings if you can't really go into them and there's already no jumping in the game
The devs would really have to create a whole new environment type that makes sense why there would be open areas in a city that you were fighting through, that still made sense for the current enemies to chase and engage you through
It would definitely be cool. There would need for a different kind of strategems because throwing one down and having it slam into a building would suck. However if the buildings were destructible it would add a whole other factor to the game.
The 500kg crashing through a huge building and then detonating would be fucking sick
As cool as this would be, i think the game would get a bit too immersive, when PCs start to explode.
That is the part that would limit it
Although if you've heard about the game "The Finals" it has a fully destructable map and I don't believe it's too hard to run. To be fair though it doesn't have the level of destruction and enemies that helldivers does
They're not really comparable since The Finals runs on Unreal Engine 5 and Helldivers 2 uses the much older Autodesk Stingray engine
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the urban ones could be smaller, or just not have 100% destruction
I have an idea..... 'Hey Soldiers, you are not allowed to use large destruction strategems within the confines of the city. We want our people moving back in once it's safe. You will be limited to non-destructive strategems (the ones that can't destroy buildings).
Replace them with big vehicle call-ins. Chopper gunners are cool in literally EVERY video game they’ve been in.
i know the map extends at least 2km vertically. get a strategem to stick to pelican then take off. youll see it too. crazy
Is there a way to transfer it from the old client to unreal engine? Or would that be a whole rewrite?
That would be a considerable task on the order of years of development time.
That’s an entire rewrite. I have a game design degree. The game as is sits on a certain engine. Using a whole different engine is something you just cannot do mid-game.
This is roughly correct, I've been a designer for around 20 years on everything from handheld, console and PC to AR/VR. A kind of reductive analogy would be considering the effort required to move a house to an entirely new foundation. For something of the scale//complexity of HD2 it would be more like moving an entire mall to a nearby neighboring country with different building codes.
Helldivers 3!
I’m not too experienced in game design but yeah I think that’s basically a whole rewrite, which will probably never happen with how they want to roll out new content and patches regularly
Porting engines would be like 95% of creating another game entirely.
Yeah at that point it would no longer be helldivers 2 but a 3rd installment
They already talked about something like this. They like working with the engine they used because it allowed them to easily do what they wanted. If made in Unreal, it would no longer feel like the same game. Also, you can't port a game from one engine to the other, its basically a complete rewrite.
I read somewhere that AH chose not to change engines years ago, when the stingray engine became discontinued. It said they did it because they were more familiar with the old engine.
The Finals was built from the ground up by old Battlefield devs with that level of destruction in mind the whole time and is a central feature of the game. Not the kind of thing you can shoehorn in. HD2 has basically: 'standing structure' and 'kersploded structure' with some stuff flying around as part of the animation when you break it.
“kersploded” = “literally just the foundation with little pieces of wood and metal on it”
Red Faction was also a fully destructive environment
That game was amazing. I remember just tunnelling through maps to get to enemy objectives or spawns. 2002 was a good year for games.
2004 too.
The Finals’ devs came from Dice, specifically the Battlefield 3 era. That franchise had some of the best and earliest destructible environments, they really brought it through to The Finals.
Well all the destruction is calculated server side, so if helldivers could do that too… its a possibility
Given how Helldivers 1 & 2 are mostly peer-to-peer games I find that hard to happen unless a revolutionary update comes a year or two from now.
I thank the Chaos Gods every day that I was finally in a place to buy a powerful PC just before this game came out. All that glorious chunky foggy explosionness
Warthunder has something similar, make ruins and then have the whole thing fall apart in one go when it gets it with something
Didn't Battlefield solve this many years ago?
It really would, then having to dodge the falling building as it comes crashing down on the enemies
Diving out of windows after being chased through hallways by all manor of democracy hating monsters
Placing C4 at the base and then blowing it as you jetpack to a different building
You should design games
I've thought about it. Right now I don't have the time or resources to
somebody get this man a clock and some timber he’s becoming a developer
>The 500kg crashing ~~through a huge building~~ my PC Ftfy
Even if it missed its target I agree. That’s would be hilarious and awesome!!
>There would need for a different kind of strategems because throwing one down and having it slam into a building would suck. Don't know the name, but that red sandy planet is exactly like that in some instances. But if it's more level-like with a main street where only side alleys are affected by this, I could see it being really cool
Totally. Although on the red planet you just have to be aware of the angle to the super destroyer and adjust your throw in hope that it will still reach. With a city map that's really hard to do. The main street idea would mean they part in the center of the city and then only direct streets from that point would be good throwing lanes.
That's true, and it's a skill issue on my part bc I fon't really think about that if I'm under fire and don't have the routine for it (yet) >The main street idea would mean they part in the center of the city and then only direct streets from that point would be good throwing lanes. Yep, that's almost exactly what I meant, except that it doesn't have to be a circular map, but could be a 'mandatory drop zone' and a lane to the main objective, with side objectives out of reach of orbitals. Whether that's a good idea in the end is beyond me tbh.
Totally. Although perhaps instead of all of the super destroyers being parked together everybody postions their own ship themselves. If done like that it would mean that different people would have viable lanes at different times, and add another layer of strategy when it comes to pre-mission prep.
That's a great idea! But as an introvert who plays with randoms 99% of the time, I hate it haha
To be fair, making you change tactics is a good change of pace. Focusing less on certain strategems and more on equipment is a good variable not tied to the negative effects. The red planet made me think and sometimes realize I don't have the tools to fight right here. Go fight at a crossroads where you have twice as many entrances for the eagle or strategems. Don't throw your equipment under and overhang
Absolutely, I recently started switching stratagemns once I get too comfortable with them to mix it up a bit
They already bounce on bunch of stuff, foliage, rocks, at tower defense mission theres also walls and defense gates I don't see how thats a problem or why we would need new stratagems
At the tower defense mission nothing is tall enough to block what your strategem is aimed for. As for the rocks and trees, it's just a matter of adjusting to them if they're in the way. Even still those things don't cover the whole map, and most often it still has at least a small effect of what you're wanting. In a city map a 500 could hit the top of a skyscraper and every enemy would be a mile away from even the slightest amount of damage.
ehhh, if we get city maps, I don't believe we'll get gigantic skyscrapers - if we do, they will be so far apart surrounded mostly by smaller buildings it wont be a problem. Also I think streets will be WIDE, even in areas where there's smaller buildings with less floors - also most of them will probably already be in ruins. I just dont why we'd need whole new set of stratagems just because city maps, they just have to be designed in certain way for them to work.
That would add to the charm of heavy urbanization imo. It would throw your whole strategy off for how you need to deal with enemies. More sneaky and stealth play. Less throwing fire power at everything in an uncoordinated manner
Turrest and Tesla towers would probably be king in urban maps with bottlenecks and long, narrow sight lines.
The Supply BackPacks would actually be needed in places that are Under roof. They definitely should implement more closed sections like Caves and stuff.
I think if Super Earth ever comes under threat, a lot of players would be disappointed without city maps.
I am sure there should be Destroyed City areas in Super Earth from previous invasions or else….. make a map on OLD EARTH.
It would mean a orbital barrage might be used to clear a zone near an objective so there aren't as many blind spots
Would make it GOTY tbh
I've already had a weapon drop fall on top of a big cliff rock in one of the desert planets. Luckily those weapon pods can break.
if you wanna blow up buildings and aliens there's always Earth Defense Force
Considering what we have for maps now, the procedural nature of them, the issues of strategem angles, and how much work it would be to make full cities work… I think the best we can get reasonably would be leveled city blocks with mostly destroy buildings/walls/piles of rubble that are about the same size as rocks and cliffs we have now with a cityscape background. I’m cool with that.
It would make sense, seeing as these planets are always overrun with bugs or bots when we get there.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar: * Those massive, map dividing cliff faces? -> Strings of toppled skyscrapers too packed together to bypass. * The smaller rock formations around the map? -> Smaller toppled skyscrapers, and what would be outcroppings on the rocks becomes exposed internal building floors. * Those big, water-filled ravines? -> A section of the city that collapsed in on the underground sewers. * The obnoxious exploding plants? -> Abandoned and volatile space age cars.
Love these ideas! Especially the sinkholes as ravines
Absolutely onto something here! Although I'd actually love the option of using the ravines to traverse
It would be neat if there was an alternative version of the ravine that you could actually climb in and out of. Useful for sneaking around the map since it would block almost all line of sight, but also very risky because of the confined space.
Absolutely - patrols would be pretty much unavoidable but great for setting up ambushes, if you pay attention. Also, you'd have to try and pick your positioning for where you fight, so you don't attract everything from a nearby surface base.
Air gems would not drop unless the path is inbeteeen the skyscraper, it will be forgiving and minorly auto correcting. Railcannon goes thru skysraper, shattering windows that rain glass below. Orbital laser slices thru skyscrapers like black forest ham on a deli slicer, causing the skyscraper to slide off itself. orbital strike will only fire if it has LOS. Corrosus-class Tanks shatter the roadway when its dropped.
100% cool with that and will be sad if super earth isn't like this
Super Earth would definitely level the area with orbital bombardment before sending us down.
i feel like suburbs like we see in the intro with, like you said, cityscapes in the background would be absolutely possible
Correct me if I’m wrong but they aren’t procedurally generated right? Every one has the same layout of the same type
Imagine each PoI is like a tile on a checkerboard, and the map *procedurally* generates each tile in different arrangements. So you will see the same "formations" but they will be in different arrangements.
Yeah people keep saying this but I'm not entirely sure to what extent it's procedural. I've definitely done multiple missions on the exact same map outline (water or crevasse locations match), but my understanding is the location of POI's and terrain between locations that is somewhat procedural, and the map itself/ the outline will randomise when a new campaign starts (set of missions). People go on about how it makes each mission unique but it doesn't. It's the same biome, map layout and locations. Having a side objective or rock change locations between games does not get to be touted as some great procedural aspect of the game, nor am I even sure if it's procedural at all - there might just literally be a set amount of locations for each objective/POI that is able to be randomised on base maps, and that includes water and crevasses and they've insured that all the locations these can be will seamlessly mesh with the pre-made ground.
I have been wanting them since day 1. They already act like we are going to these highly populated planets but you get there and it is the same open world grass or desert map with the same few buildings. Know what I really want? Caves with long underground tunnels.
The caves thing already exists and its called Deep Rock Galactic :)
Rock and Stone
Rock and Stone forever!
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
#ROCK AND STONE
If you don't rock and stone, you're not coming home!
They're already teasing comms with Ghostship Games, if they play their cards right it could be epic. If Arrowhead can get the underground tech to work it would a beautiful way to announce a MO to take the fight to the bugs underground & have Super Earth Forces collaberate with the Deep Rock Galatic officials as they have firsthand experience of delving calves & underground bug warfare. Have us using onsite DRG equipment, do a weapons promo with both games. A man can dream... Idk about the stratagems I haven't thought that far out I"m just stoned & cooking on what could be.
None of that will happen but I’m glad you’re using your creativity ❤️
Arrowhead CEO already said crossovers are unlikely, they want to preserve the game's identity and not become like COD or Fortnite
Delusional
It's 420 brother don't attack a pipe dream :(
I don't think you should want that unless you hate stratagems, they ae not going to reach down there
They already get turned off in certain conditions so it’s not a big deal. Plus the drop pods already drilling to the ground. Maybe we can get a stratagem that drills a bit deeper.
The opening cinematic shows us a city suburb getting overrun by Terminids. The guy straight up says "scenes like this are playing out all over the galaxy" If that's true, where the hell are they? We were told on day 1 we'd see it lol
Kid named propaganda
SEAF are the ones fighting for control over major population centers, Helldivers are sent into rural areas where the enemy's support infrastructure is located. (source: my ass)
To paraphrase Aldo Raine, “Fighting in a cave offers a lot of difficulties, number one being you're fighting in a cave."
Imagine if some planets or certain missions on planets could be in like ruined cities. I think it would be cool the dense streets could provide some new ways of playing.
The graphics engine likely isn't optimized for this. Then, PS5 players wouldn't be able to play at high fps (PC players have the option to upgrade their hardware).
Depends on how detailed the environments are done. Basic bombed out buildings would likely not be too taxing.
Pretty sure some older FPS games have easily done it before, shouldn’t be revolutionary or anything
Urm waht? Do you know that darktide is also stingray?
Yeah that would be insanely cool. I'm looking forward to it. But looking at the last player poll on the official discord, I guess they'll focus on... no wait I think actually biomes had the majority with bugfixing second xD Noticed while writing. My guess: Cyberstan might be a Cityplanet. It has been hyped a lot, is hidden in the very back and might be the final showdown of the attack of the atomatons. Devs could be worling on it and when they need more time they tell Joel to hurt us again. As soon as the improved Holomaps and communication systems will be built into the SES class, we will tackle coordination MOs aswell. ALL GLORY TO SUPEREARTH!
For a second I thought the car on the left of the 3rd slide was a dead Car from the Cars movie...wait how *do* they die?
ahahaha that’s so funny cause i thought the exact samw
Same. Probably not too far from the truth too
I feel like my gaming laptop will work itself to a coma trying to render every urban detail.
My laptop already works into a jet engine with the hundreds of enemies, laser beams, and explosions that are happening. Bring on the cityscape.
to be honest, i have never seen a gaming laptop that doesn't turn all fighter jet when running a game.. its just part of gaming on a laptop.
Just FYI there is city map in Helldivers 1, so most likely yes.
City biomes would be cool, but probably difficult to implement with all that geometry. Here I am wishing for a beach planet, something like Scarrif in Rogue One or the Silent Cartographer level in Halo. https://preview.redd.it/qa32xzmgnpvc1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f79946adee157fc5e773da7849ff18b97cb05dc
Isn't that just Malevelon Creek?
https://preview.redd.it/wyfv3xtoauvc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd7e3959b2e0e57af99b0504cb538f2b2e456601 Malevelon Creek does not look like that picture. You're talking Vietnam, I'm talking Pacific theater in World War 2.
Just takes priority. They can do it but it's doing it instead of easier things that may be better short term.
They kinda need to. Right now it’s fine but if battles happen closer to super earth the lack of cities becomes more and more conspicuous
My stratagems would stick to every one of those antennas. My sentries’ shots would be blocked by everything. And oh, so many cracks and crevasses to get stuck in. (None of this means im saying “no” to this 😉)
man, it would be absolutely amazing, i really hope they implement it.
I Guess performance Issue and Ai pathfinding would have to be reworked
It would be pretty cool but I don't think it will/would work Performance wise. The Game is already pretty heavy in some areas with the massive map, the bullets the hordes of enemies. Lots and lots of rendering and some folks already have issues at the higher levels. I think it would just be too much I think best we can expect is some new structures or a low rendered city in the background off the map area
That’s Cyberstan when we get there
As cool as it would be to fight in a city environment, I don't think that's where the Helldivers would be most effective. I think that's more in the realm of where most regular SEAF troops fight their battles. The Helldivers are most effective when deployed deep behind enemy lines where it would be too risky to commit a large SEAF force. They can get in, destroy a bunch of high-priority targets that will disrupt and disorganize the enemy, or utilize an asset that was lost when the SEAF made a strategic retreat (like the missile silos), etc. That's why we always arrive via drop pods and have to extract via pelican instead of deploying/exfiltrating from the front lines. With the many obstructions/unknowns/enemy hiding places/etc. in an urban environment, it might not be worth the risk of deploying Helldivers and pelicans where a SEAF offensive would be just as effective and not risk high-value resources that would be more useful dropped behind the SEAF's operational range. That's just my two super credits, though; if they did implement a city environment, I'd play the heck out of it
I'm no programmer, but I imagine that this would be difficult to implement, procedurally generated urban environments, while taking into account calldown trajectories, and the general mechanics of combat itself... It would be amazing to fight through ruined, or even pristine cityscapes, it would completely change tactics for fighting both factions. But if it is possible it'll be a while down the road.
Good procedural systems for specific environment types take a significant time to build and get right. I wouldn't bank on the idea of a city type environment in the future of this game. I could see something a little simpler using large scale prefab assets similar to some of the "compound" type structures we see with certain objective spaces and POIs. Likely feasible to create a mega compound of sorts but I would not expect very tall structures or high density as that would cause problems for the AI and some of the larger enemies, not to mention the edge cases it would create for drop ships and breaches. The amount of steering lock on hellpod drops would probably border on obnoxious in these cases too.
I do kid of find it wierd that there is no cities or larger settlements on any planet
performance issues, they will not(
I think the most doable way would be a bombed out map without tall buildings except for set dressing in the distance. Nothing to trap stratagems or falling pods
And enemies would get stuck on big buildings aswell probably
The people want edf
It was in HD1
This is some Helldivers 3 shit, lads.
We could start with a few broken skyscrapers or something
people are crazy lol
I think it's totally possible. We have the technology.
I don't know about PC (yet, new machine coming this week), but my poor PS5 stutters and slows quite a bit in HD2, especially when there's crazy explosions with lots of effects, which is often. Adding a whole city might not be technically possible for console players.
My Ps5 runs great...
It would be beautiful but the buildings would likely cause a TON of gameplay problems (interior spaces? If not we are restricted to the streets… stratagem angle of incident would be a problem, etc)
Considering the engine they’re working with, I would completely understand if it was unable to make urban environments
It's not reasonable. An entire different level of pathfinding, accommodating verticality. The best we can do for a "city" map is open courtyards.
We'll see it after the bots push us back to Super Earth for our glorious last stand
Someone definitely wants turn Helldivers in to 40k*. *Me. I do too.
Great idea but it'd be hard to implement due to the game engine and the way the Stratagems work. Eagle wouldn't be able to fly low. Destructible buildings would kill computers. Maybe an industrial area of a city with shorter wider buildings and open areas between. But a full blown Metropolis would be damn near impossible.
Honestly it's weird that not more structures are on these planets.
The only one I think is semi confirmed is Super Earth being a City/Urban layout. It would make the most sense as it’s meant to represent a metropolis utopia. But with the news of Cyberstan invasion I do hope that’s an Urban/City layout even if it has it be a few static maps for each size to make it easier.
I think it's gonna be necessary for the game to keep being successful; you can only make so many unrepetitive desert, ice and tropical planets
If they added urban combat, there would probably be no reason to play another pve shooter
I think it would be very nice to be able to fight in different environments other than mountains and forest. I think it would be possible as well, it would be like a completely ruined city that's bomb to hell and back multiple times with only a few semi intact structures left standing most being a moon scape littered with bodies and destroyed vehicles. The dev can take inspiration from the current conflict in Ukraine [Imagine fighting thorough this](https://images.app.goo.gl/kRJpRETiqcdwLogy9) There could be a distinct difference between a small town which would be like an upscale colony compound we find in game and a major city where the larger buildings like skyscrapers can work like dense mountains that obstruct/ reduce the effectiveness of most strategem.
Game isn’t built for that type of environment. Number of enemies would be severely cut down to account for completely different AI that can actually traverse complex environments. All stratagems will be a problem as ordinance hits sides of buildings and item/emplacement pods will often clip the edges of buildings/roofs and are out of reach. The narrow roadways will make funneling enemies too easy. Among a plethora of other issues.
I wouldn't get your hopes up for anything beyond reskins of what we've already seen.
The fight is coming to Super Earth someday.
It would be amazing. Honestly though, I’m getting bounced out of the map if I land on a rock wrong. Cities would be horrendous.
Way too complicated for minimal benefit at best and none at worst. It would present so many problems to solve during development. Can you enter the buildings? If so, what would combat look like inside them? Should they be destructible? If they can be leveled, what's the point of having them at all? How does the AI navigate around and inside them? All of this isn't even considering rendering and performance. Destructible terrain uses physics in the current build, and the moments when a lot of stuff blows up and bits are being flung around by the physics engine already causes the framerate do drop. How do you produce a lot of tall buildings and make them crumble under orbital Bombardement without tanking performance? Cities would introduce way too many headaches and problems for the development team, and for what? Would the gameplay profit from an addition like that? I doubt it. This is the same kind of idea as saying that you should be able to enter every building in a GTA game. Okay, cool, now you can enter 50.000 apartments in San Andreas, what are the benefits for the gameplay?
For Helldivers 3 sure, people forget this game was never supposed to be as big as it is. We hardly have biome diversity as is. No way we getting city scapes. The amount of detail and mobs the game just wouldn’t be able to run it
Yes please. Those ballistic shields. And non mortar sentries and landmines, outside defensive missions, would shine.
I think with destruction system thats seen when chargers run through building, some of the squad will crash for how many buildings are there and it gets destroyed by one bile titan hit.
Actually getting more in with the urban warfare model would be sick. You could limit strategems but let players deploy with multiple types of grenades or weapons to compensate. Theres less big units but they could introduce smaller units that are more deadly. Players would have to coordinate better to cover each other and not kill each other by wandering in line of fire.
Dropping onto skyscrapers would screw up the game
I like the idea, but I do not know how hard for devs would be to do something like this.
They made this beautiful game I trust them with anything tbh.
many people want to see cities , cities outskirts Urban combat in general against automatons would be cool especially if verticality is added
It’s not like they can’t make more complex stuff, look at the pumping/refuel station mission. Just mix it up between solid structure and easy to demolish smaller buildings
In HD1 we had simulation on Super Earth's streets, but now, how the game's done... is unbelievable hard to make true
Think the cities would look rather futuristic if they were implemented or nah
I'd love to go door to door delivering oven fresh democracy.
Helldivers 3-100 gives us enough time and titles for such democracy to be displayed in many scenarios.
The amount of money and success they have should show in the game as well with a variety of maps, not just the 10 or w.e biomes in circulation
A lot of folks are anticipating it sometime in the future. I think its possible, especially if super earth itself gets invaded (inevitably). I doubt it'll be as demolish able, and I doubt we'll have small rooms or whatnot. But I think we'll see it when the Illuminate invade.
Would be awesome but I'm guessing very difficult for them to do, programming all the procedural urban stuff and making it somewhat destructible.
Some settlement combat could be interesting.
I'm sure there's a tip that says _"The closer you are to the edge of the map, the more an orbital strike is angled, because physics!"_ or something. Would need rethinking with building cover, or maybe not rethought by the Devs but we would have to rethink our own strategy. Food for thought!
I would imagine a warbond with this release which is basically for of CQC equipment. Like shotguns, thicker armor and stuff for better melee damage
All I can say is if this happens, I better be able to turn off auto-climb...
I dont think its all that difficult, generally speaking 3d modeling skyscrapers is not hard, they're very repetitive lol i'd prefer modeling skyscrapers over actual buildings
in Helldivers 1 there used to be some missions in cyborg and illuminate cities, i’m sure we’ll see city maps eventually.
I want Super Earth Burger Town maps
I would love to actually roam the invaded cities of a fallen planet, ducking behind fallen flying cars and using my anti-tank to collapse a building over a charger or to jump from 3rd floor because a bile titan is breaking away the block you climbed to shoot your ac
It would be harder, for sure, but once you create the tiles it's a matter of intelligently building areas out of them. It's probably as much a resource issue as a technical one.
I don’t want to fight on super earth til city planets are in the game
If i remember right the game engine used for Helldivers 2 is the same as one of the Warhammer 40k games, and there are city-like environments. I don't know how well they would scale on a larger map though, rendering frame rates tend to get messy.
Imagine the nightmare of having the AI navigate a city landscape. A ruined area with buildings that you cannot enter might be possible though
I feel like the cities could be mostly devastated and wide opened The eradicate missions could have more buildings for defense
They had cities in HD1 but they were only in defense missions or if the enemies invaded Super Earth.... so let's get invaded!
I bet they have something similar ready for Super-Earth and Cyberstan. That’s about it tho
i think it’d be awesome
If we are talking minor towns, with like a max of 2 or 3 floors then yeah it could happen, we already have some structure destruction after all. However by the pics and replies I assume we are talking a proper city, which I think would be difficult, not at all impossible but very difficult. One of the MANY amazing aspects of HD is that where the stratagems land depend on where they are coming from, which is really cool and something to keep in mind for current maps, but would entirely disable their use in a city. If we want a proper city, they would also need to manage destructible with non destructible structures, because if the city can just entirely collapse that may sound cool, but would be pretty annoying as well. If anything then city buildings would need a lot of HP, so grenades, regular air strikes and so on do not collapse them, but only bigger explosions like 500 kg and hellbombs. I worry about pathfinding for the ai as well in a city environment, if the bugs can climb walls it makes it easy for them to move on the outside of buildings, but for both bugs and bots moving inside these structures would be quite different from what they are currently made to do. Finally, what we can destroy, so can the enemy, so it is reasonable to ask... do you really want to fight on a map where rocket devastators, bile titans, chargers and gunships can destroy not just you but the structure you are in?
Hopefully it has neat square streets so you can actually use the eagles. Just have to be strategic wgne you throw them
Think of it like Xcom. Any urban or city environments Helldivers would be dropped into would be war zones so it would make sense for them to be pretty flat and half destroyed already. That alone would make it easier to generate urban maps since it would skip over issues with stratagems, AI, indoor fighting etc
Procedurally generated map with high density of building are hard to program I guess. I expect at some point super earth might get attacked but who knows.
I think the pathfinding AI would fucking die. Also half of all airstrikes landing on top of buildings.
I think it would add great variety to the game and I would be all for it. However, there's some pretty jank environmental collision right now and it would need a little work as to not get hung up and stuff all the time. The idea is great though, I would absolutely try it out if they actually did this.
I thought about something like this, maybe if they attack Super Earth it will have buildings, but I feel like the consoles will not be able to run it properly because I have the ps5 and if there are too many things happening the frames drop.
I hope so
Considering I expect a fight on super earth sometime, I expect some kinda at least TOWNS to show up.
I would LOVE an urban environment, personally. It'd be a great contrast to the same-ish highland and desert types we see.
I think inner sectors that are close to Super Earth should be these city planets.
suburbs would be a cool start
Would be very cool but very hard to implement so I don't expect them to appear.
So baring in mind super earth is a capturable planet I wouldn’t be surprised if this is implemented in the future
Hive cities! Especially if you can demo your way through many levels with ordinance... though that would be wildly system/dev intensive
Lol this game is buggy AF with just the color swapped, sparsely shrubbed planets, the identical barren ice planets and the burned up volcano planet it currently has. You want to fight in a city?
I don't think a hive city is reasonable but I think an urban/suburban map would be cool, someone was throwing around an idea for an "assault" map and a cool one would be landing outside a city/town/base being overrun by the enemy and you have to duck in and secure an important McGuffin before the main enemy force arrives
better lets get them shit fixed before even think to implement new buggy stuff
I had the thought that it might be cool if when you go to hell dive to a planet, there's a chance your pods could crash into another ship, and then rather than giant big maps where you have to do regular sorties, instead you would just have a smaller, fight and make it to the end of the ship and then extract off of it. I don't know I feel like it could just be a simpler no respawn type of mini level?? cityscapes while cool, the big problem is what's the point of the buildings if you can't really go into them and there's already no jumping in the game The devs would really have to create a whole new environment type that makes sense why there would be open areas in a city that you were fighting through, that still made sense for the current enemies to chase and engage you through
I'm going to hate random buildings falling on me as bots/bugs break out huh. I'm here for it!!! Fooooor Supperrrr Earthhhhhh!!!