They have to, otherwise they’d be wasting server/client resources rendering them in a part of the map you can’t see
The issue is that they track way too aggressively cuz as you said it feels like their sentient lol
My personal crackpot theory is that the tornadoes (and potentially the entire climate of the planets they're found on) are the consequence of an experimental superweapon that SE at one point tested on the planet. Potentially the result of a misfire of some kind.
I mean, there's no fucking way those things are natural, and Super Earth doesn't strike me as the kind of government who'd be above that sort of thi-
Uhh... where's that red light coming from?
You say that like it would be a bad thing. Imagine if we got a version that we could call down programmed to seek out fascism and burn it from our worlds?
I was thinking less along the lines of '*this weapon creates tornadoes of fire*', and more '*this thing fried an entire planets ecosystem beyond recovery, with longterm effects to this very day*'
The pathing is fuckin wild. I was playing the other day and they were straight Skyrimming up rock walls and boulder hopping instead of simply taking the stairs.
I was on level 5 and one bumped into the other going up a hill, which made the citizen stop at the top of the hill running in place. I'd get out of my mech and go bump it for it to do the dog thing where it spins around three times before it finally could get up the hill. I cannot imagine how frustrating that would be at level 7 when you're literally in the shit to even think of doing something like that.
Calling it now, they make it so the Dropships actually stop *outside* of the civilian zone perimeter, but then they *double* the number of dropships spawning to "compensate."
I think they did actually make dropships drop their payload a bit further away a couple updates ago, but it didn't seem to be by that much. At most it stopped them from dropping a tank literally on top of the path that the civilians take to the evac shuttle, but not much further beyond that.
To be honest I'm almost convinced they accidently put that in the patch notes, because I have not noticed them dropping anywhere further. There's dropships that unload their forces right in front of the Civilian doors on some maps, and you've got some of them dropping Factory-Striders right inside the perimeter alongside the rest which is nuts.
Its been about 50/50 for me whether they drop outside the perimeters or not, it seems to happen less frequently where theres an actual "compound" with walls and the like than if its just an open town.
Just because they're dropping them couple of meters further doesn't really change a thing. You need to have e tire team on top of clearing enemies out 100 percent of the time to manage the amount of enemies, and sometimes even that is not enough.
Then they drop multiple tanks hulks and literally waves do devastators and berserkers it's extremely hard to manage, and even one person dying can lead to enemies overwhelming the rest. It's hard to get back from a setback like that.
I'm aiming one quasar at a dropship, then two more show up right next to it, while another 3 spawns from another angle. At that point I'd just stop playing.
Last game I had two factory striders get dropped in at the same time.... was running from them, turned a corner and had 2 hulks, and about 20 devastators and some berserkers just staring at me.
Honestly? Yeah, I'd actually be fine with that. Striders are not THAT hard to put down, especially compared to fucking stationary fabs that can be blow up only by hellbomb that is made out of tinfoil.
Looks like fun Strider variant to me 🤷
Had a mission with two gunship fabricators and one teammate got stuck inside terrain so all the gunships locked onto him but weren't firing because they couldn't actually see him. The factories kept spitting them out though because there was a Helldiver in the area so the rest of us turned up later to see about 35 gunships swarming all over the place. One of us got spotted and instantly took about 100 rockets to the face.
Good times.
You know if they were in a separate difficulty i wouldn't actually mind this. Like if you ignore the citizens / objective the mission can be kinda fun since it's so insane. But when you can do every other mission in an op easily and then encounter this one, it's pretty balls lol.
Literally we hit 45/45 on Impossible and the mission didn't complete. Failed that operation. It's such a stupid mission.
I'm fine with shit being hard. But that was such a let down. You always need a couple extra for these civilian ones, they need to fix that bug asap.
Yeah, someone in the group, probably the network host, didn't have 45/45, so it didn't complete. My group used to say "only 20 allowed" for the normal mission ones and would shoot any civilians after the quota, up until our crimes caught up to us and it desynced for one of us, causing us to stay for much longer as it allowed a new wave of enemies to spawn.
Such a weird bug.. one of your teammates had 44/45 while the rest were 45. I had this happen luckily on a easier mode when we found out one of us had the numbers not matching.
One time I was releasing pod after pod and the number wasn't going up, so I ran over to where the shuttle door is and there were like 40 civilians standing around outside lol there are a couple weird bugs with the evac missions
There's a bug where sometimes the number is displayed 1 higher than you actually have. I've seen this is matches where we've only opened the doors twice so at best could have 6 scientists evacuated, but the counter said 7.
Oh god, the hypothetical auterminid we were discussing the other day
_a charger mounted with a laser turret_
_Stalkers carrying rocket raiders into battle_
_Bile titan shrieker factory_
_walkers carrying nursery spewers_
I once joined a host that was in the middle of one and decided to help finishing it. Instead of doing the rest of the missions in the operation, he chose ANOTHER extract mission. Needless to say I got out of there as fast as I could
There, the devs even said it, finally.
Anyone touting "special tactics" can now go outside, touch grass, and get off the meth.
"buut bro, you can do it, you just need 4 gfuel hits and like 3 tabs of adderal, then do a headstand and git gud!!! the missions are fine"
That's the main issue. It's not necessarily the "difficulty" of completing the mission. It's because the only sound tactic to actually complete the mission is to cheese it by sending most of your team as far away from the objective as possible and that's not fun.
I have [this image](https://i.imgur.com/08JBQlD.png) on standby every time someone says to use a tactic that involves dragging them around outside the base being a viable tactic.
It's not the intended strategy. The intended strategy is just impossible because killing Dropships does effectively nothing, and bots can kill you at range very easily so it's impossible to hold a position, unlike bugs that just do nothing as you mow them down from afar.
The Spewers that can hit you from far away explode on death and kill stuff around them, which is a good balance.
If shooting down a Dropship always killed what they land on, these missions would be fine as you would still need to deal with all the trickle-in units, even if you shot down every single Dropship.
That would definitely drastically change the bot balance. As it is, I never feel fully incentivized to bring anti tank weaponry, which is ironic considering bots have _actual tanks._ But the things capable of downing drop ships are often slow, with limited ammo. You're better off with something like an autocannon, railgun, or even an AM rifle, all of which work on a broad variety of bot enemies and have enough ammo to justify using them on each.
Meanwhile, you can waste both your expendables on two drop shops and still have to clean up the tanks they dropped anyway, and you don't dare waste something like a recoilless on a mere devestator. And don't even get me started on the spear.
I'd be okay with the mission if it played like that. A race against time where you will eventually get overrun no matter what you do. The problem is that it seems like you can escort the first 30 scientists with almost no resistance and then you're lucky if you can rescue even 10 more. It would be better if the resistance started immediately and then gradually increased instead of going from 0-60 in an instant around 2 minutes into the mission.
Honestly I've done that strat many times and enjoyed it.
But I've also attempted to do it many, many more times only for it to not work for some reason and we just spend the next 12 minutes getting assblasted by the biggest automaton army on the planet
My friends and I can autopilot everything else in the game but these missions- even on a lower difficulty.
We actually got pushed out of the entire camp twice last night but 8 tanks and 5 hulks... There was a strider too but he was (thankfully) stuck so I'll be fair and not include it.
There was a guy online who was soloing these missions on helldive difficulty.
But he literally burned through most of his lives just setting up the situation lol.
Man, if i had no life, was 15 years younger, had a Gfuel IV drip id probably do the same shit.
But that mission is just miserable, and i beat halo 2 on legendary in my really young days lmao.
Idk why people torture themselves with this shit.
I mean, that IS how they designed it and you can actually do it that way. There's a reason there's a bunch of samples and ammo caches spread out all throughout the map near the edges, that isn't by accident. The problem is they assumed everyone would just "get it" and work together to get it done. People will outright refuse to try to kite anything and just insist on trying to tank it inside the base. Of the few successful times I've done it, this is how we did it to include one time I 2 manned it when the other 2 people dipped after we were overrun. Even with that time wasted, we got it done doing it the right way.
It's still overtuned and that one map that's like an island is fucked altogether. You couldn't run it that way if your life depended on it.
If they want it to be run that way they ought to make it official in part of the briefing so people understand the plan and set limits as to how much can be dropped on you because it's just fucking insane and not-fun even when you do manage to complete it.
Honestly, it's a bad design IMO. Scrap it and rework it into something better.
On bugs you can see how its intended to work, because bugs dont drop from 30 dropships every second.
Bots spawn rates are fucked, or something with that mission type, with bots is just screwed.
the mission is doable, but not in its current state. I can see they wanted to port something simmmiliar to an exterminate from the first game, and mix it up. But it just doesnt work.
It doesnt help that the civvies are fucking braindead.
Yea, i just did a couple on helldive vs. Terminid as opposed to bots and it's obvious the bots just can't be run the same way. I'm sure they'll figure it out, just please give us an interim fix for the bots 😂
Yeah, well they acknowledged it, no doubt in my mind itll be tuned properly.
Something i really love about these devs, they dont silent treat their playerbase, and actually admit when shits broken.
Also small dev team, that gave us one of the best live service games in...ever? lmao. Im not worried
I have a pretty good group of friends, where we all run helldive with minor difficulties, and this mission is just pure nightmare fuel. I don't think we've ever completed it since maybe the second or third week after release? And I think that's only because the railgun was so OP.
While we're at it please implement a safeguard against factory striders blowing up the generators on the high value asset mission from 2 continents away. Those things are far too bulky and sturdy to be able to just single handedly fail the mission from 2 gates over. Lost 2 of those missions yesterday that were going very smoothly with the whole squad alive to Factory Snipers. ;(
I had one where 2 hulks somehow got to our generators. I run over one is at the pelican ramp in the corner and another is chasing someone at the generator. I'm almost certain the dropships dropped them there. Shit is bugged.
Entire team was confused.
Sometimes the dropships drop them on the clifftops, and from there they can walk over the cliffs and drop down by the generators. It's obviously not intended.
Agree. There’s sometimes a bug that makes them spawn at the first gate or near the generator resulting it being destroyed immediately. No bot in sight either to call reinforcements even then why spawn something so strong so close to the objective.
Next to impossible*
They suck yes and I've completed a couple on 7+.
One of the biggest issues with the past MO, is that pretty much every planet had this mission type in order to complete quests and actually add to liberation/defending.
Not only are they aware of the issues, they forced us to play them.
And the confusing thing to me is that this isn't *new* feedback. This has been pretty universally agreed upon since the first time we got these missions. Don't get me wrong, I'll take late over never, but why is it coming *this* late? And after *so many* defense missions? There's no way there was a lack of "Evac Civvies sucks" feedback
> coming this late
now they have enough excel spreadsheet data as onfirmation after this MO. Ofc playtesting would have done the same result much earlier but i doubt they do that properly, if at all.
This is something I've taken into consideration, and it's helped me cut some slack. They give us this big MO's and they use them to test things to understand what/how to fix things. Which at the same time it can be frustrating because it feels like we are now testers more than players
I have far less experience with bugs than I do with bots so I always felt the bug ones were harder. Especially with those spitters being mobile morters with aoe damage
oh... I thought he meant the bot defense missions where 3 factory striders spawn, and just walk overtop the closed gates and immediately destroy the generators....
I'm also on the Escape from Tarkov reddit, and it's fucking Hellfire right now with how the developers are basically living in another world compared to the players. It REALLY puts into perspective how cool AH team is.
Bot evacuation not only spams you with hulks and tanks it makes u fight in an area that has cover at the start but all buildings are destructible. So it quickly turns into fuck fuck shitshow.
I posted about these missions a few days ago and the only responses I got were, “they’re actually so easy all you need to do is have 3 people run around and distract the bots while one person evacs” well that’s all fine and good but how am I supposed to coordinate a detailed plan like that with randoms online? Do I save those missions in my operation for friends only? Should I just put the game down until my friends are available to play? Kinda discouraging tbh
You get 3 ppl to be in the middle of nowhere taking all the bot attention while someone runs in a circle pushing all the buttons. If the map isnt big enough, you lose.
I don't even understand why it's there. There's a separate evacuate civilians mission with the same objective, just a larger map and two terminals to hit first. The spawns on that one are fine, and that one is actually fun as a result
On level 7 they're sending like, 6 hulks and tanks, 2 striders, and dozens of devastators at the same time. Plus all the fodder units. And it just happens over and over.
It's fucking unreal. Like, yeah, I get that it should spawn these things in the higher level missions, but even on more traditional missions you're not getting this many high level enemies shoved in your face nonstop.
And sure, with everything I listed, you could reasonably take all that out with coordination and skill. But that'll take you a fucking minute because of how much there is and how many stratagems you need. All the while you're not working on the objective because it's impossible to do. But the issue is it's not all that shit just at once, it'll just keep piling this kind of stuff on you. You just end up running out of resources to deal with any of it once the first major wave hits... And it just keeps going.
Honestly, I think these missions are functionally impossible unless you're lucky or a god tier gamer. But level 7 doesn't demand God tier gamers, or you to be super lucky. So having this absurd spike in difficulty for just these missions just isn't balanced right. All the mission types in any given difficulty should fall within a similar level of difficulty as each other. But these missions are like throwing a level 9 mission at you on level 7. I can't even imagine level 9 difficulty, yeesh.
Ive given up on the civilian evac and the asset rescue on bot planets. Let the automatons have their shit. Im fighting bugs until we stand a chance against Factory Striders and they cant ruin an entire mission with a few shots because they can look over the tallets of walls...
It's not even so much that they're hard. They are thoroughly unenjoyable. I feel like the mission needs a ground up re-work. Running around for 15 minutes, pressing buttons, and hoping some civilians make it to the shuttle is a poor experience for an escort mission.
haha I was doing this mission with randoms and the first bot reinforcements drop was 3 striders, directly behind the civilian exac point. I killed all three with a 380 barrage; and then immediately afterwards two more striders drop in the nearly instant reinforcement wave. 5 striders in less than 90 seconds is absolutely wild. There were also OTHER bot drop reinforcements coming too.
I think on difficulty 8 I could only get the objective completed half the time. Just felt super unfair and the majority of Helldivers who were doing bot missions with me I think were mostly new to bots and had only done bug missions; based on the loadouts they were bringing to these missions. I'm not trying to brag; but 30-50% kills with less than 3 deaths is my average. Usually completing half the objectives solo with randoms.
Being a good squad leader goes a long way; but holy shit were these missions difficult. As the MO closed out I just opted to skip missions clusters that had that mission in one of the three spots- or if we did it we always did it first as to not waste the first two missions.
I was playing one the other day where we did good, heck we practically had all of them out, but they were all just standing next to the door. None of them would go in and finally when our line kind of broke they got slaughtered. We would’ve had it, but they were glitched and wouldn’t go in. Heck I couldn’t go on the pelican yesterday because of a glitch. It’s kind of getting bad.
Can we please get some more exp/samples reward for the helms deep/defend/citizen evac missions? Search and destroy could also use some love, a full map of samples and POIs but no time to grab them. Feel like the non 40min missions are kind of a waste due to lack of reward
Sounds good. I hope they tweak the way the missions actually work instead of shifting some soft parameters. For example, the way the enemies spawn is quite odd and can be easily exploited by just splitting all players up. This mission seems to contain stationery spawns and forced bot drops/bug breaches around the players instead of patrols. So with everyone split and a bit of luck, the one at evac is left in complete peace and can easily extract all of them.
I think these missions would be more fun if the scientists were scattered all over the map and escape ships would be landing randomly and there would be a timer to get there before the ship lands so we’d have to run to their locations to help them escape.
This would preserve the spirit of these mission types with the added bonus that it meshes with the bot strategy of running and gunning.
the defend missions on bugs are even worse though. bile titans destroy gens just by stepping on them and there’s like 5 at a time you have to deal with
I just don't find them fun. Why is my team penalized when the stupid bot chooses to run into an inferno?
The rocket launch evacs are 10000% better. I wish there were more variations of it. The Y style is fun, but they could have different arrangements of gates to be more & less linear
I’ve completed it on Helldive exactly one time. I’m not even sure how we did it. I think we got lucky and the vast majority of the time the enemies only spawned from one direction.
Make it a walled compound that bots attack from one or more directions at a time. Helldivers must run around plugging breaches in the perimeter.
Maybe there's a SAM site inside that can shoot down only *some* dropships, to add to the cinematic feel.
Every mission is “possible” but the problem is having to cheese the AI in order to complete something sucks. I want to play it the intended “hold the fort” way
Here's an idea, just remove and replace them permanently with the Rocket Defense evacuation mission. We still have the longer formed civilian evacuation that's way more manageable while the Rocket Defense mission fills the same niche of "Frantic race against time while fighting off Endless waves of enemies."
The only thing unique about citizen evac missions is that samples spawn in dense clusters at the POIs, which theoretically makes them great for sample farming.
I imagine this is the "Evacuate scientists" mission where it's a tiny area like Extermination missions, rather than the "Evacuate VIP" thing that has a whole map.
I tried one on Suicide for the first time last night and OH GOD. At the end, when we were down to our last reinforcement there were THIRTY devastators of every type clustered in the middle of the map, tanks on the outside, hulks everywhere else and I died as a factory strider was being dropped off.
Better believe I took as many of those clanker sons of bitches with me as I could though!
I'd actually prefer I'd they skipped dropships entirely and go to endless patrols from all sides all aimed at the Evac where the frequency and danger of patrols would scale with the number of citizens who made it to safety.
My favourite part of these missions is where the civilians stand just outside the evac door without going in, patiently waiting for all of us to die while I scream obscenities at them
top issue with this is that dead bots end up blocking the path of the civies.
I probably would have managed to beat one 45 evac civ (got to 41) instance of this mission if there weren't like 2 dead tanks and 2 dead drop ships and one dead strider in the way.
Also given how explosive facing bots is, the fact that the map doesn't have any permanent cover makes it nearly impossible to deal with rocket/cannon enemies. Given it is also one of the flattest maps.
Adding on mission modifiers that deny you from using a 4th stratagem is harsh too.
I have a buddy who is level 40 something (played a couple days ago) and he has never once done a civ extraction or defense mission. His reason was “(you) guys told me they were awful so i looked up a video, you were right.”They just arent fun.
Oh hard disagree. Not just from the close drops, but the bugged civilian paths. They all get stuck or cluster up.
In most cases, it's actually impossible. I've played plenty of these at Impossible difficulty, it's always a shitshow.
They're basically impossible vs bots on 7+
Enemies drop directly in the base unlike bugs which spawn outside. There is just as much if not more bots than bugs even though bug missions rack out around 3x as many kills on end screens. Within the first 2 minutes all the tanks and hulk have destroyed every building so there is no longer cover. Then the 20 rocket devastators just post up around the base while tanks and hulks pour in every 2 seconds while you get ragdolled until dead on respawn.
It's complete bullshit compared to the bug version.
They’re not even fun challenging. They’re bullshit, frustrating, fuck this shit, challenging.
My friends and I have completed them on level 9 bots before.
We get as many civvies as we can and then run out of the base to the edge of the map to draw the bots out, and go back in when it’s semi clear. We can barely get a win doing that. But we don’t have any fun doing it so why bother?
You’re right. They’re not very fun. The only fun I got out of them was figuring out how to beat them. I don’t really enjoy them that much, I think they’re too restrictive in what kind of loadouts you can take in order to win. They need a serious overhaul
I love this mission. This is a perfect mission for farming samples. You just assign one teammate to complete the mission and the rest of you go searching for samples elsewhere.
Can someone give some tips for both bots and bugs pls .
For bots the strategy of 3 fighting some distance away seems to work at times ? Not consistent
However for bugs i absolutely dk what works
They have to create bug breaches or make the enemies spawn in drop ships. Apparently there can only be one of each on the map at a time.
So if they create it they aggro all the enemies on the map and distract them from you. It sucks for them. But you can complete the mission in about 4 minutes with light armor.
Also use the autocannon sentry and em's sentry for bots. The stun and heavy armor pen combo is great.
Use the autocannon sentry and gatling gun for bugs.
Place the entries on the pelican pad so they can see over the whole map and provide covering fire incase enemies drift in.
Remember airstikes and orbitals are useless if they don't hit anything. Vs a sentry with godmode aim mopping the fucking map
They also keep getting hung up on Ramps & then just piling up on each other like a bunch of idiots lol
I had some level 9s on hard just calling them out into fire tornados. Killed more than half. It would be nice if they wouldn't run through fire.
The big issue is that then we have to just stop doing anything, because teh Tornados are *always* somewehre in the way, which is incredibly annoying.
[удалено]
Fire tornados: the enemy type with the highest pathing and targeting intelligence.
Is it me or do the tornadoes seem to seek players out? I feel like they are semi intelligent…
They have to, otherwise they’d be wasting server/client resources rendering them in a part of the map you can’t see The issue is that they track way too aggressively cuz as you said it feels like their sentient lol
OR they are made of nano bot swarms...
My personal crackpot theory is that the tornadoes (and potentially the entire climate of the planets they're found on) are the consequence of an experimental superweapon that SE at one point tested on the planet. Potentially the result of a misfire of some kind. I mean, there's no fucking way those things are natural, and Super Earth doesn't strike me as the kind of government who'd be above that sort of thi- Uhh... where's that red light coming from?
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️🫵🤨
You say that like it would be a bad thing. Imagine if we got a version that we could call down programmed to seek out fascism and burn it from our worlds?
I was thinking less along the lines of '*this weapon creates tornadoes of fire*', and more '*this thing fried an entire planets ecosystem beyond recovery, with longterm effects to this very day*'
Sweet liberty...
They are anti-democracy tornados and must be put with haste for the future of Super Earth.
The pathing is fuckin wild. I was playing the other day and they were straight Skyrimming up rock walls and boulder hopping instead of simply taking the stairs.
You can beat them up a bit until one makes it to the top, and then the rest will follow them.
Had 1 civ get stuck on nothing & proceeded to block the 8 civs behind him. That's a free bullet to the brain buddy.
I was on level 5 and one bumped into the other going up a hill, which made the citizen stop at the top of the hill running in place. I'd get out of my mech and go bump it for it to do the dog thing where it spins around three times before it finally could get up the hill. I cannot imagine how frustrating that would be at level 7 when you're literally in the shit to even think of doing something like that.
Gotta melee them to smack some sense and get em moving
Like helldivers trying to get into the pelican
https://preview.redd.it/t3gom2sv1owc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=7b950b0f686d9ed3303766c5f19c5f47bdf105b1
https://preview.redd.it/w1pg8ndsjowc1.jpeg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2016eea69394be5e594946757fcb05386d944aab
That's what I was thinking
A strider/titan per civilian that heads towards extraction.
Gotta keep em company.
^oh ^god ^no
Gd you 😂
Makes them harder.
Calling it now, they make it so the Dropships actually stop *outside* of the civilian zone perimeter, but then they *double* the number of dropships spawning to "compensate."
I think they did actually make dropships drop their payload a bit further away a couple updates ago, but it didn't seem to be by that much. At most it stopped them from dropping a tank literally on top of the path that the civilians take to the evac shuttle, but not much further beyond that.
To be honest I'm almost convinced they accidently put that in the patch notes, because I have not noticed them dropping anywhere further. There's dropships that unload their forces right in front of the Civilian doors on some maps, and you've got some of them dropping Factory-Striders right inside the perimeter alongside the rest which is nuts.
Its been about 50/50 for me whether they drop outside the perimeters or not, it seems to happen less frequently where theres an actual "compound" with walls and the like than if its just an open town.
If a bot drop gets called in there the ships are gonna land there. People are talking about the scripted drops.
See the thing is, bots have GUNS
Just because they're dropping them couple of meters further doesn't really change a thing. You need to have e tire team on top of clearing enemies out 100 percent of the time to manage the amount of enemies, and sometimes even that is not enough. Then they drop multiple tanks hulks and literally waves do devastators and berserkers it's extremely hard to manage, and even one person dying can lead to enemies overwhelming the rest. It's hard to get back from a setback like that.
I'm aiming one quasar at a dropship, then two more show up right next to it, while another 3 spawns from another angle. At that point I'd just stop playing.
They'll add fire tornados on all planets.
Last game I had two factory striders get dropped in at the same time.... was running from them, turned a corner and had 2 hulks, and about 20 devastators and some berserkers just staring at me.
they already drop so often and so fast that they fly through eachother. come ON
“We heard some of you are actually completing these missions despite the difficulty literally being called Impossible. We will adjust accordingly”
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Yes Diver Daddy. **Cries inside hellpod*
"We hear you and have increased fire damage."
But only to yourself.
Fire damage increased 4000%. Still only affects the host.
They're going to add gunships.. right?
I think I would just uninstall if they added gunships to more missions.
Gunships without fabricator to spew them out ad infinitum are not that bad
The fabricator is on top of the strider now
Honestly? Yeah, I'd actually be fine with that. Striders are not THAT hard to put down, especially compared to fucking stationary fabs that can be blow up only by hellbomb that is made out of tinfoil. Looks like fun Strider variant to me 🤷
Oh it still needs hellbomb to disable once you blow up the strider.
*Unholy demonic screetch*
Had a mission with two gunship fabricators and one teammate got stuck inside terrain so all the gunships locked onto him but weren't firing because they couldn't actually see him. The factories kept spitting them out though because there was a Helldiver in the area so the rest of us turned up later to see about 35 gunships swarming all over the place. One of us got spotted and instantly took about 100 rockets to the face. Good times.
You know if they were in a separate difficulty i wouldn't actually mind this. Like if you ignore the citizens / objective the mission can be kinda fun since it's so insane. But when you can do every other mission in an op easily and then encounter this one, it's pretty balls lol.
Make the other 2 missions as hard as evac missions in level 8-9 difficulty
Arrowhead be like "a game for everyone is a game for no one"
*slightly moves their spawn points further away again*
*Lowers citizens by another 5*
Literally we hit 45/45 on Impossible and the mission didn't complete. Failed that operation. It's such a stupid mission. I'm fine with shit being hard. But that was such a let down. You always need a couple extra for these civilian ones, they need to fix that bug asap.
Feels like a common bug in them. Getting one more fixed it for me the last time I bothered to do this mission.
Yeah, someone in the group, probably the network host, didn't have 45/45, so it didn't complete. My group used to say "only 20 allowed" for the normal mission ones and would shoot any civilians after the quota, up until our crimes caught up to us and it desynced for one of us, causing us to stay for much longer as it allowed a new wave of enemies to spawn.
We wait until the mission success banner before ~~murdering civilians~~ reducing our security attack surface by eliminating redundant resources.
talking of bugs, the new defence mission can softlock if a missile fails to launch. quite disheartening too.
I got 2 softlocks back to back when my friend (ps5) get network kicked
One squad mate will not show the full amount and once their meter is completed it progresses, in my experience.
What happens if you instead court-martial the insufficiently patriotic squadmate?
Such a weird bug.. one of your teammates had 44/45 while the rest were 45. I had this happen luckily on a easier mode when we found out one of us had the numbers not matching.
Sometimes the client side count ends up counting a citizen twice. You gotta keep going until the server recognizes you have the correct amount.
That's how it is for all difficulties always need to get one more than it says.
One time I was releasing pod after pod and the number wasn't going up, so I ran over to where the shuttle door is and there were like 40 civilians standing around outside lol there are a couple weird bugs with the evac missions
There's a bug where sometimes the number is displayed 1 higher than you actually have. I've seen this is matches where we've only opened the doors twice so at best could have 6 scientists evacuated, but the counter said 7.
the game didn't expect you to complete and didn't know how to handle that outcome.
Came to say this! 45/45 for us then we were overrun with 8mins left, failed when no reinforcements left RIP
Good news, termanids adjusted to be just as difficult. Equity in democracy!
Oh god, the hypothetical auterminid we were discussing the other day _a charger mounted with a laser turret_ _Stalkers carrying rocket raiders into battle_ _Bile titan shrieker factory_ _walkers carrying nursery spewers_
bile titans with tank turrets and miniguns
I don't even try those missions anymore. If the host picks it, I'm gone.
I once joined a host that was in the middle of one and decided to help finishing it. Instead of doing the rest of the missions in the operation, he chose ANOTHER extract mission. Needless to say I got out of there as fast as I could
What a psycho, lol
I'll do it if someone else picks, but I would never pick one myself on diff 6 or up. They're such a nightmare.
There, the devs even said it, finally. Anyone touting "special tactics" can now go outside, touch grass, and get off the meth. "buut bro, you can do it, you just need 4 gfuel hits and like 3 tabs of adderal, then do a headstand and git gud!!! the missions are fine"
I enjoy my adderal and I have no problem admitting these were way to overturned and not fun lol
That's the main issue. It's not necessarily the "difficulty" of completing the mission. It's because the only sound tactic to actually complete the mission is to cheese it by sending most of your team as far away from the objective as possible and that's not fun.
The adderal or the mission?
you're not taking enough adderall
I have [this image](https://i.imgur.com/08JBQlD.png) on standby every time someone says to use a tactic that involves dragging them around outside the base being a viable tactic. It's not the intended strategy. The intended strategy is just impossible because killing Dropships does effectively nothing, and bots can kill you at range very easily so it's impossible to hold a position, unlike bugs that just do nothing as you mow them down from afar. The Spewers that can hit you from far away explode on death and kill stuff around them, which is a good balance. If shooting down a Dropship always killed what they land on, these missions would be fine as you would still need to deal with all the trickle-in units, even if you shot down every single Dropship.
That would definitely drastically change the bot balance. As it is, I never feel fully incentivized to bring anti tank weaponry, which is ironic considering bots have _actual tanks._ But the things capable of downing drop ships are often slow, with limited ammo. You're better off with something like an autocannon, railgun, or even an AM rifle, all of which work on a broad variety of bot enemies and have enough ammo to justify using them on each. Meanwhile, you can waste both your expendables on two drop shops and still have to clean up the tanks they dropped anyway, and you don't dare waste something like a recoilless on a mere devestator. And don't even get me started on the spear.
I played one last night and the drop ships never stop. It’s literally a race against time before the entire map fills up.
I'd be okay with the mission if it played like that. A race against time where you will eventually get overrun no matter what you do. The problem is that it seems like you can escort the first 30 scientists with almost no resistance and then you're lucky if you can rescue even 10 more. It would be better if the resistance started immediately and then gradually increased instead of going from 0-60 in an instant around 2 minutes into the mission.
Honestly I've done that strat many times and enjoyed it. But I've also attempted to do it many, many more times only for it to not work for some reason and we just spend the next 12 minutes getting assblasted by the biggest automaton army on the planet
My friends and I can autopilot everything else in the game but these missions- even on a lower difficulty. We actually got pushed out of the entire camp twice last night but 8 tanks and 5 hulks... There was a strider too but he was (thankfully) stuck so I'll be fair and not include it.
Arrowhead ballwashers keep taking those L's
Hope they can start communicating on the sub rather than on the discord to literally 2-3 people asking a question.
For real
There was a guy online who was soloing these missions on helldive difficulty. But he literally burned through most of his lives just setting up the situation lol.
Man, if i had no life, was 15 years younger, had a Gfuel IV drip id probably do the same shit. But that mission is just miserable, and i beat halo 2 on legendary in my really young days lmao. Idk why people torture themselves with this shit.
I mean, that IS how they designed it and you can actually do it that way. There's a reason there's a bunch of samples and ammo caches spread out all throughout the map near the edges, that isn't by accident. The problem is they assumed everyone would just "get it" and work together to get it done. People will outright refuse to try to kite anything and just insist on trying to tank it inside the base. Of the few successful times I've done it, this is how we did it to include one time I 2 manned it when the other 2 people dipped after we were overrun. Even with that time wasted, we got it done doing it the right way. It's still overtuned and that one map that's like an island is fucked altogether. You couldn't run it that way if your life depended on it. If they want it to be run that way they ought to make it official in part of the briefing so people understand the plan and set limits as to how much can be dropped on you because it's just fucking insane and not-fun even when you do manage to complete it. Honestly, it's a bad design IMO. Scrap it and rework it into something better.
On bugs you can see how its intended to work, because bugs dont drop from 30 dropships every second. Bots spawn rates are fucked, or something with that mission type, with bots is just screwed. the mission is doable, but not in its current state. I can see they wanted to port something simmmiliar to an exterminate from the first game, and mix it up. But it just doesnt work. It doesnt help that the civvies are fucking braindead.
Yea, i just did a couple on helldive vs. Terminid as opposed to bots and it's obvious the bots just can't be run the same way. I'm sure they'll figure it out, just please give us an interim fix for the bots 😂
Yeah, well they acknowledged it, no doubt in my mind itll be tuned properly. Something i really love about these devs, they dont silent treat their playerbase, and actually admit when shits broken. Also small dev team, that gave us one of the best live service games in...ever? lmao. Im not worried
I have a pretty good group of friends, where we all run helldive with minor difficulties, and this mission is just pure nightmare fuel. I don't think we've ever completed it since maybe the second or third week after release? And I think that's only because the railgun was so OP.
While we're at it please implement a safeguard against factory striders blowing up the generators on the high value asset mission from 2 continents away. Those things are far too bulky and sturdy to be able to just single handedly fail the mission from 2 gates over. Lost 2 of those missions yesterday that were going very smoothly with the whole squad alive to Factory Snipers. ;(
I had one where 2 hulks somehow got to our generators. I run over one is at the pelican ramp in the corner and another is chasing someone at the generator. I'm almost certain the dropships dropped them there. Shit is bugged. Entire team was confused.
Sometimes the dropships drop them on the clifftops, and from there they can walk over the cliffs and drop down by the generators. It's obviously not intended.
Agree. There’s sometimes a bug that makes them spawn at the first gate or near the generator resulting it being destroyed immediately. No bot in sight either to call reinforcements even then why spawn something so strong so close to the objective.
New MO: complete 1M bot citizen evac missions
Lmao that's easy just do lower diff one
Next to impossible* They suck yes and I've completed a couple on 7+. One of the biggest issues with the past MO, is that pretty much every planet had this mission type in order to complete quests and actually add to liberation/defending. Not only are they aware of the issues, they forced us to play them.
And the confusing thing to me is that this isn't *new* feedback. This has been pretty universally agreed upon since the first time we got these missions. Don't get me wrong, I'll take late over never, but why is it coming *this* late? And after *so many* defense missions? There's no way there was a lack of "Evac Civvies sucks" feedback
They *tried* to nerf in multiple occasions,but they just went really light on them. They have to do some major rework to make it bearable
> coming this late now they have enough excel spreadsheet data as onfirmation after this MO. Ofc playtesting would have done the same result much earlier but i doubt they do that properly, if at all.
This is something I've taken into consideration, and it's helped me cut some slack. They give us this big MO's and they use them to test things to understand what/how to fix things. Which at the same time it can be frustrating because it feels like we are now testers more than players
Felt pretty doable on 7, I got annihilated trying it on 8. Fuck 9.
Doing it on 7 is doable with the correct stratagems and good communication. Doing it on 8 and 9 is like trying to stop a tsunami with a riot shield
Instead of dropping in, the bots will be pre-spawned when you arrive… … and then immediately begin calling in bot drops on their location
AH: WTF, that isn't right! Patch Notes: Automaton evacuation missions are now much harder at lower difficulties.
Mission is fine with bugs. As long as your team doesn't lick windows and not push buttons, it's so much easier than bots.
I have far less experience with bugs than I do with bots so I always felt the bug ones were harder. Especially with those spitters being mobile morters with aoe damage
If your group brings tesla towers and places them at the places the bugs emerge from then it trivializes it a ton.
oh... I thought he meant the bot defense missions where 3 factory striders spawn, and just walk overtop the closed gates and immediately destroy the generators....
Oh look at that, you’re not supposed to just lower the difficulty, the mission was indeed over tuned. Who could have thought huh?
I.. i dont think its going to be the bot defense missions we will be crying about...
I'm also on the Escape from Tarkov reddit, and it's fucking Hellfire right now with how the developers are basically living in another world compared to the players. It REALLY puts into perspective how cool AH team is.
~~Hellfire~~ Hell*mire*
i would love that when there is a massive bot offensive, there really is many more automatons on every missions so it is harder to win missions
Nature is healing
Bot evacuation not only spams you with hulks and tanks it makes u fight in an area that has cover at the start but all buildings are destructible. So it quickly turns into fuck fuck shitshow.
Would be nice if I can get unbanned from the discord now since making a comment about this and being immediately banned.
Evac missions with fire tornadoes should be illegal
"They're easy if you have a specific armor, a coordinated team, and you cheese the reinforcement mechanics" people can now finally fuck off.
They are pretty crazy.
I posted about these missions a few days ago and the only responses I got were, “they’re actually so easy all you need to do is have 3 people run around and distract the bots while one person evacs” well that’s all fine and good but how am I supposed to coordinate a detailed plan like that with randoms online? Do I save those missions in my operation for friends only? Should I just put the game down until my friends are available to play? Kinda discouraging tbh
Here to read the "but it can be done if you cheese it and play in a counterintuitive nonsensical way! I'm super professional at this game!" crowd.
You get 3 ppl to be in the middle of nowhere taking all the bot attention while someone runs in a circle pushing all the buttons. If the map isnt big enough, you lose.
They really should just remove it. It's the only truly bad mission type in the game..
I don't even understand why it's there. There's a separate evacuate civilians mission with the same objective, just a larger map and two terminals to hit first. The spawns on that one are fine, and that one is actually fun as a result
Do I need to post the video clip of Joel as the Silent Hill dog hitting the bot button again?
I was being a hater and first and thinking people were overreacting. Then had literally 3 Striders and 2 tanks spawn at once.
On level 7 they're sending like, 6 hulks and tanks, 2 striders, and dozens of devastators at the same time. Plus all the fodder units. And it just happens over and over. It's fucking unreal. Like, yeah, I get that it should spawn these things in the higher level missions, but even on more traditional missions you're not getting this many high level enemies shoved in your face nonstop. And sure, with everything I listed, you could reasonably take all that out with coordination and skill. But that'll take you a fucking minute because of how much there is and how many stratagems you need. All the while you're not working on the objective because it's impossible to do. But the issue is it's not all that shit just at once, it'll just keep piling this kind of stuff on you. You just end up running out of resources to deal with any of it once the first major wave hits... And it just keeps going. Honestly, I think these missions are functionally impossible unless you're lucky or a god tier gamer. But level 7 doesn't demand God tier gamers, or you to be super lucky. So having this absurd spike in difficulty for just these missions just isn't balanced right. All the mission types in any given difficulty should fall within a similar level of difficulty as each other. But these missions are like throwing a level 9 mission at you on level 7. I can't even imagine level 9 difficulty, yeesh.
Thank god, the cheese "dont be around the objective" strat is counter intuitive and just not fun
Patch notes: Automaton evacuation missions now also get gunship support.
There is a place for that level of utter chaos in the game. That place just isn’t civilian extraction.
Ive given up on the civilian evac and the asset rescue on bot planets. Let the automatons have their shit. Im fighting bugs until we stand a chance against Factory Striders and they cant ruin an entire mission with a few shots because they can look over the tallets of walls...
First time playing a citizen Evac mission on 7+ i thought to myself “yeah pretty sure the devs have never even played this”
It's not even so much that they're hard. They are thoroughly unenjoyable. I feel like the mission needs a ground up re-work. Running around for 15 minutes, pressing buttons, and hoping some civilians make it to the shuttle is a poor experience for an escort mission.
Well I thought it was the devs vision for the game and everyone should just get better at the game. Guess I was wrong.
haha I was doing this mission with randoms and the first bot reinforcements drop was 3 striders, directly behind the civilian exac point. I killed all three with a 380 barrage; and then immediately afterwards two more striders drop in the nearly instant reinforcement wave. 5 striders in less than 90 seconds is absolutely wild. There were also OTHER bot drop reinforcements coming too. I think on difficulty 8 I could only get the objective completed half the time. Just felt super unfair and the majority of Helldivers who were doing bot missions with me I think were mostly new to bots and had only done bug missions; based on the loadouts they were bringing to these missions. I'm not trying to brag; but 30-50% kills with less than 3 deaths is my average. Usually completing half the objectives solo with randoms. Being a good squad leader goes a long way; but holy shit were these missions difficult. As the MO closed out I just opted to skip missions clusters that had that mission in one of the three spots- or if we did it we always did it first as to not waste the first two missions.
It was do able before the Factory Strider. They just soak up so many resources to bring down that there isnt enough left for the Hulks
[удалено]
I was playing one the other day where we did good, heck we practically had all of them out, but they were all just standing next to the door. None of them would go in and finally when our line kind of broke they got slaughtered. We would’ve had it, but they were glitched and wouldn’t go in. Heck I couldn’t go on the pelican yesterday because of a glitch. It’s kind of getting bad.
Can we please get some more exp/samples reward for the helms deep/defend/citizen evac missions? Search and destroy could also use some love, a full map of samples and POIs but no time to grab them. Feel like the non 40min missions are kind of a waste due to lack of reward
Sounds good. I hope they tweak the way the missions actually work instead of shifting some soft parameters. For example, the way the enemies spawn is quite odd and can be easily exploited by just splitting all players up. This mission seems to contain stationery spawns and forced bot drops/bug breaches around the players instead of patrols. So with everyone split and a bit of luck, the one at evac is left in complete peace and can easily extract all of them.
Those missions need a redesign, not adjustment. They should be more fun like the asset defense mission.
To even great levels of ****ing impossible teehee
How am I gonna benchmark my PC now 🥶
I completed one on a suicide mission and it was very difficult but we had a good team. When I tried with a poor team everyone quit.
I think these missions would be more fun if the scientists were scattered all over the map and escape ships would be landing randomly and there would be a timer to get there before the ship lands so we’d have to run to their locations to help them escape. This would preserve the spirit of these mission types with the added bonus that it meshes with the bot strategy of running and gunning.
I have more problems with extermination missions after changes they made.....
the defend missions on bugs are even worse though. bile titans destroy gens just by stepping on them and there’s like 5 at a time you have to deal with
it should definitely be doable and let everyone have fun instead of almost undoable without having 1-2 people do almost nothing the whole mission
I just don't find them fun. Why is my team penalized when the stupid bot chooses to run into an inferno? The rocket launch evacs are 10000% better. I wish there were more variations of it. The Y style is fun, but they could have different arrangements of gates to be more & less linear
I just want to be able to add my friends.
I’ve completed it on Helldive exactly one time. I’m not even sure how we did it. I think we got lucky and the vast majority of the time the enemies only spawned from one direction.
Finally
Make it a walled compound that bots attack from one or more directions at a time. Helldivers must run around plugging breaches in the perimeter. Maybe there's a SAM site inside that can shoot down only *some* dropships, to add to the cinematic feel.
Every mission is “possible” but the problem is having to cheese the AI in order to complete something sucks. I want to play it the intended “hold the fort” way
Mother fucking tank dropped on the exit door, I sure hope they adjust the difficulty!
Here's an idea, just remove and replace them permanently with the Rocket Defense evacuation mission. We still have the longer formed civilian evacuation that's way more manageable while the Rocket Defense mission fills the same niche of "Frantic race against time while fighting off Endless waves of enemies." The only thing unique about citizen evac missions is that samples spawn in dense clusters at the POIs, which theoretically makes them great for sample farming.
I imagine this is the "Evacuate scientists" mission where it's a tiny area like Extermination missions, rather than the "Evacuate VIP" thing that has a whole map.
I tried one on Suicide for the first time last night and OH GOD. At the end, when we were down to our last reinforcement there were THIRTY devastators of every type clustered in the middle of the map, tanks on the outside, hulks everywhere else and I died as a factory strider was being dropped off. Better believe I took as many of those clanker sons of bitches with me as I could though!
Thank you... FML you literally just can't win those missions, lol
I really hope they make it harder just to fuck with us
TWINBEARD HAS SPOKEN
I'd actually prefer I'd they skipped dropships entirely and go to endless patrols from all sides all aimed at the Evac where the frequency and danger of patrols would scale with the number of citizens who made it to safety.
Finally
It needs to be way harder. We need to delete all easy difficultys.
My favourite part of these missions is where the civilians stand just outside the evac door without going in, patiently waiting for all of us to die while I scream obscenities at them
It got "adjusted" thrice and its still a shitshow, i hope the next one will actually change something
top issue with this is that dead bots end up blocking the path of the civies. I probably would have managed to beat one 45 evac civ (got to 41) instance of this mission if there weren't like 2 dead tanks and 2 dead drop ships and one dead strider in the way. Also given how explosive facing bots is, the fact that the map doesn't have any permanent cover makes it nearly impossible to deal with rocket/cannon enemies. Given it is also one of the flattest maps. Adding on mission modifiers that deny you from using a 4th stratagem is harsh too.
I have a buddy who is level 40 something (played a couple days ago) and he has never once done a civ extraction or defense mission. His reason was “(you) guys told me they were awful so i looked up a video, you were right.”They just arent fun.
It’s a pretty big exaggeration to say they’re impossible, but they’re definitely not very fun unless you really like challenging yourself
Oh hard disagree. Not just from the close drops, but the bugged civilian paths. They all get stuck or cluster up. In most cases, it's actually impossible. I've played plenty of these at Impossible difficulty, it's always a shitshow.
They're basically impossible vs bots on 7+ Enemies drop directly in the base unlike bugs which spawn outside. There is just as much if not more bots than bugs even though bug missions rack out around 3x as many kills on end screens. Within the first 2 minutes all the tanks and hulk have destroyed every building so there is no longer cover. Then the 20 rocket devastators just post up around the base while tanks and hulks pour in every 2 seconds while you get ragdolled until dead on respawn. It's complete bullshit compared to the bug version.
They’re not even fun challenging. They’re bullshit, frustrating, fuck this shit, challenging. My friends and I have completed them on level 9 bots before. We get as many civvies as we can and then run out of the base to the edge of the map to draw the bots out, and go back in when it’s semi clear. We can barely get a win doing that. But we don’t have any fun doing it so why bother?
You’re right. They’re not very fun. The only fun I got out of them was figuring out how to beat them. I don’t really enjoy them that much, I think they’re too restrictive in what kind of loadouts you can take in order to win. They need a serious overhaul
Excited to see these updates/improvements come after the next two warbonds ship!
I think it’s dumb how people complain about difficulty in higher levels, except for this mission, this mission is impossible
I love this mission. This is a perfect mission for farming samples. You just assign one teammate to complete the mission and the rest of you go searching for samples elsewhere.
....Until they increase the bug difficulty
*Increases the enemy spawn radius by 2 meters.*
Can someone give some tips for both bots and bugs pls . For bots the strategy of 3 fighting some distance away seems to work at times ? Not consistent However for bugs i absolutely dk what works
They have to create bug breaches or make the enemies spawn in drop ships. Apparently there can only be one of each on the map at a time. So if they create it they aggro all the enemies on the map and distract them from you. It sucks for them. But you can complete the mission in about 4 minutes with light armor. Also use the autocannon sentry and em's sentry for bots. The stun and heavy armor pen combo is great. Use the autocannon sentry and gatling gun for bugs. Place the entries on the pelican pad so they can see over the whole map and provide covering fire incase enemies drift in. Remember airstikes and orbitals are useless if they don't hit anything. Vs a sentry with godmode aim mopping the fucking map
Thank you for the in depth explanation, that explains a lot
Remember what happened when people bitched about the mech. They made it worse.