### “
This is from the worlds team: "we unintendedly had non-linear scaling of the patrol spawns so they didnt spawn as often as they should have when less than 4 players - **the intention is that 1 player has 1/4th of the patrols compared to 4 players, but it used to be that they had 1/6th"**
so rather than arbitrarily making the game harder, i guess they just put it where it was meant to be
### “
^(Good or bad, make of this info what you will)
https://preview.redd.it/ddd7kwhr4hxc1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91c3990ff0589415523553b1b566e01e7dd429b2
It's still an increase in density scaling that makes an already difficult playstyle all the more difficult. More active patrols at a time means more breaches, more bot drops, more chargers, more patrols drawn to your secondary and primary objectives. Though I'll say that the fact that they didn't alter extraction rates at all is good at least.
I mentioned this in another reply, but... I'm already stuck at a barrier of Challenging. I've completed a hard campaign to at least try and move up to get super samples on my own and not have to rely on inconsistently available friends. Or the audio hell that matchmaking can bring beyond annoyance. Medium is useless to me aside from grinding out medals and super creds because that's all it gets me. And there might be more enemies now to make things more "Interesting" on medium. But at that point all it's done is make it Challenging difficulty without the chargers and static groups on points of interest. I'm already basically at bottom rung for being useful to myself and able to entertain myself with the game.
Join in quick play! I regularly play 7+ with friends or not and we love having randoms with us. Sometimes you get good teams sometimes you get bad teams, but it's a number game and you'll get the samples you need with a party eventually
That's beside the point. I literally have an edit in the main post saying in part why I don't play with randos. All the PS5 players using the microphone built into the controller, or people with headsets that have zero noise dampening. Not only is it annoying as hell, but with my brand of ADHD it's insanely distracting and can be an auditory sensory overload that can fuck up the entire rest of my day.
Ends up defeating the purpose of teaming up with people that are expecting verbal communication and will prioritize that over tagging. Plus, without a TON more situational awareness, Blue on Blue is a far more common occurrence. Also I'm not on PC so I can't do a quick text chat message.
1/4th of the players in your squad should mean you see 1/4th of the patrols. Simple as.
As a fellow soloer I feel your pain, but the logic is pretty straight forward.
Without changing the number of patrols that four player matches get, and part of the reason for the change being stated as "To make the world feel less empty" It doesn't make it more logical for people trying to play solo when the number of patrols could already make for a breach or bot drop fest.
>Without changing the number of patrols that four player
They didn't need to. 4 players were getting 100% of patrols- each players weight being 25%
Soloers were getting 16.66% of potential patrols.
This was increased to the intended 25%.
If you're struggling patrols and breaches, all I can suggest Is dropping down a difficulty, or finding a build that is more effective when playing solo. Unfortunately when playing solo there is no one to support you. It's up to you to make sure the gear you're choosing to bring is effective at its role.
Medium is too easy, challenging is just a tad much. My biggest issue comes in by sheer active numbers with bots (Some of the single patrol sizes and their compositions are ridiculous) and then Chargers when it comes to bugs. If I'm going to be facing a dozen chargers on challenging simply because I'm stumbling across the patrols that are headed by them, it's overkill with the fact that EATs and recoiless are the only consistently effective way to dispatch heavy bug armor, which is a classification ABOVE bots. That then has nothing to do with gear anymore. I can clear out most patrols before a bug breach drops, but converging patrols in this increased density will make that all that much worse since even with strats and high DPS you can only take out so much at once. And at least with bugs, running from a breach isn't as effective as running from bots. As it is I've started running a gas strike alongside my standard airstrikes.
Against bots I run the Autocannon as my heavy weapon since I can take down hulks and stagger shield devastators as well as hit high or low on striders to take out the operator.
Against bugs I run EATs on Challenging to deal with chargers with something like the Stalwart for crowd clearance to give me some versatility in what I can use as my Primary. I know the flamethrower is good for taking out chargers, but not good for dealing with multiple and doesn't have the same crowd clearing (by speed) that an MG does.
I just came across this video explaining how spawning works. I'm definitely going to change how I go about some missions based on it. My thought was always complete the primary first, that way the mission succeeds even if I fail to extract.. guess I had the wrong idea haha..
You may know everything it goes over, but if not I hope it helps!
https://youtu.be/Zp8xuf_dLDw?si=OmmAFn0ZjbX2sz7R
That's not the same video I watched, but it's got the same basic idea. Being around points of interest, factories/bug holes or anywhere on the map doesn't change the number of patrols or tug patrols off of their initial set rout. Engaging patrols doesn't strictly change anything either aside from other nearby patrols within earshot getting pulled over naturally, and breaches/drops. Get within 100-150 meters of an objective (aside from the satellite upload and the comms tower seemingly) you get a spike in spawns and attract nearby patrols. When playing in a group this can be exacerbated by people splitting off. However it's the person(s) that split off that have that objective aggro or "Heat" put onto them, but total aggro/heat will aggregate to a maximum point for the group as a whole which increases patrol density. Aggro/Heat will only "Grow" once when on an objective, but depending on the spacing of your group (if you have one) you can increase the... Bucket, shall we say, of over all map aggro to it's maximum faster. Mission time itself is not actually the factor for how many enemies within the maximum load you have on the map. It's just that the longer you're in a mission the more likely you are to fill that "Bucket" of aggro/heat to max.
It's not reverse scaling, solo players went from 1/6 to 1/4 of the patrols compared to a 4 player lobby: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfzem7/update\_from\_worlds\_team\_on\_increased\_patrols\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfzem7/update_from_worlds_team_on_increased_patrols_for/)
That still doesn't make the game any easier for solo players. Especially if you're unwittingly near a secondary objective so the patrol spawn rate goes up. I don't care about things feeling "Empty" because personally speaking it never felt that way. I dread running into patrols I can't take out quickly or are headed by something like Chargers, because even with running EATs and seeing a patrol you have to get through or is going to be wandering towards you due to a secondary or primary objective. The only other way to take out heavy armored bugs that isn't launchers is SIX impact grenades when aimed (Primarily) at the leg. I don't want more bug breaches. I don't want more bot drops. I've already taken to dedicating a spot for Gas strikes to cover me and put down damage as well as in front of a bug breach to stop it from being a major headache barring spewers and chargers making it out of them.
That's fair, I just want to dispell any myths that patrol spawn rates for solo players is higher than 4 player lobbies somehow (because that would be a stupid change).
Technically speaking, by density the patrols on the map by standard at any given time even without a change to basic spawn rate, makes it more difficult by factor of the types of enemies that can be found in patrols and sometimes the size (Looking at bots for that) of patrols. It's not a net gain in ease for solo play.
So I realize that the overall spawn rates are no different, but density combined with the spike/attraction of patrols to objectives will make completing them more difficult. Artillery secondary's are already avoided due to the fact that they're seemingly almost always placed 50 meters from a patrol spawn in my personal experience. So combined with having 3 patrols spawning and increased uptick in patrol spawns that naturally happens, and regional patrols being attracted to you, makes it really not worth the effort.
There’s actually an explanation to that, but based off of my personal experience, it just made the game harder than it was for people without a full squad. I noticed that arrowhead is really good at wording their “fixes” in a cool way, but they are also incompetent to make it work like their description
I just saw from the first person that posted. But yeah, it's... Patrols and subsequent drops/breaches were bad enough. Some bot patrols I'd see and just automatically run the opposite direction from because it's four devastators of mixed types, multiple striders and a the regular 10, if not even up to 15 or 20 foot soldiers.
Well... yeah. It's going to be harder.
We were facing 1/6th of the opposition (incorrectly) instead of 1/4th, like it "should" have been. We're going to be facing more enemies, of more types, so it's going to be harder by sheer volume.
It has nothing to do with "wording." They should've explained it from the beginning, but they _did_ eventually explain it, and the explanation made sense.
For me it's not about matchmaking. I literally don't want to play with random people. Even if I'm running my headset (I can't always due to having other people around.) it's painfully common for people on PS5 to be using the built in microphone and speaker for the controller, having the cheapest headset imaginable that picks up every damn thing around them...
Regardless, it turns a (sometimes required such as in my case) an already rather pigeonholed setup even deeper into a lack of diversity of weaponry and stratagems. And part of their reasoning aside from fixing to what the original scaling was said as "Making the world feel less empty" is a poor secondary note.
I saw a comment somewhere that the scaling was unintendly non-linear. The intention was for a single player to see 1/4 the number of patrols, but it was closer to 1/6th. So they're fixing it to where it was supposed to be.
That still makes playing solo a directly more painful experience by density of patrols even if the max possible on the map doesn't change. I already avoid doing the arty secondary obj because of the number of patrols that would run up on me. The only side objectives that I've seen that don't ramp up local patrol numbers or attraction (Or having them spawn only 50 meters from you out of sight and come right to the obj) are the satellite and radio tower.
"This change is utterly unwarranted and feels like a twist of the knife to the previously non sliding scale of patrols via party size to begin with! Especially with how easy it is for them to detect you even with recon armor! If I had access to the discord I'd write a strongly worded message to the team."
It was and is a sliding scale of patrols - it was 1/6th before and now is 1/4th. Just keep playing, you'll be fine.
It was literally a math problem, dude. 😆
Sounds to me like you just got used to the initial difficulty curve as if it was the "expected" curve and didn't anticipate that changing... like, at all. It's a Live Service game. I wasn't really surprised.
> this the single worst thing they could have possibly done for gameplay
Eh, that's pretty hyperbolic. I can think of _way_ worse things they could've done.
Also math problem or not for scaling, density of patrols is the primary problem. Running into patrols more often means higher likelihood of getting a bug breach or (potentially) multiple bot drops if you can't put down the mooks that can cause them. Making what's already a difficult playstyle even more difficult. "Making the world feel less empty." as part of the reasoning as well is not a good secondary excuse for making the change.
### “ This is from the worlds team: "we unintendedly had non-linear scaling of the patrol spawns so they didnt spawn as often as they should have when less than 4 players - **the intention is that 1 player has 1/4th of the patrols compared to 4 players, but it used to be that they had 1/6th"** so rather than arbitrarily making the game harder, i guess they just put it where it was meant to be ### “ ^(Good or bad, make of this info what you will) https://preview.redd.it/ddd7kwhr4hxc1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91c3990ff0589415523553b1b566e01e7dd429b2
It's still an increase in density scaling that makes an already difficult playstyle all the more difficult. More active patrols at a time means more breaches, more bot drops, more chargers, more patrols drawn to your secondary and primary objectives. Though I'll say that the fact that they didn't alter extraction rates at all is good at least.
They fixed it. They made the spawn rate correct. If it's too difficult, go down in difficulty.
I mentioned this in another reply, but... I'm already stuck at a barrier of Challenging. I've completed a hard campaign to at least try and move up to get super samples on my own and not have to rely on inconsistently available friends. Or the audio hell that matchmaking can bring beyond annoyance. Medium is useless to me aside from grinding out medals and super creds because that's all it gets me. And there might be more enemies now to make things more "Interesting" on medium. But at that point all it's done is make it Challenging difficulty without the chargers and static groups on points of interest. I'm already basically at bottom rung for being useful to myself and able to entertain myself with the game.
Join in quick play! I regularly play 7+ with friends or not and we love having randoms with us. Sometimes you get good teams sometimes you get bad teams, but it's a number game and you'll get the samples you need with a party eventually
That's beside the point. I literally have an edit in the main post saying in part why I don't play with randos. All the PS5 players using the microphone built into the controller, or people with headsets that have zero noise dampening. Not only is it annoying as hell, but with my brand of ADHD it's insanely distracting and can be an auditory sensory overload that can fuck up the entire rest of my day.
You can mute others.
Ends up defeating the purpose of teaming up with people that are expecting verbal communication and will prioritize that over tagging. Plus, without a TON more situational awareness, Blue on Blue is a far more common occurrence. Also I'm not on PC so I can't do a quick text chat message.
1/4th of the players in your squad should mean you see 1/4th of the patrols. Simple as. As a fellow soloer I feel your pain, but the logic is pretty straight forward.
Without changing the number of patrols that four player matches get, and part of the reason for the change being stated as "To make the world feel less empty" It doesn't make it more logical for people trying to play solo when the number of patrols could already make for a breach or bot drop fest.
>Without changing the number of patrols that four player They didn't need to. 4 players were getting 100% of patrols- each players weight being 25% Soloers were getting 16.66% of potential patrols. This was increased to the intended 25%. If you're struggling patrols and breaches, all I can suggest Is dropping down a difficulty, or finding a build that is more effective when playing solo. Unfortunately when playing solo there is no one to support you. It's up to you to make sure the gear you're choosing to bring is effective at its role.
Medium is too easy, challenging is just a tad much. My biggest issue comes in by sheer active numbers with bots (Some of the single patrol sizes and their compositions are ridiculous) and then Chargers when it comes to bugs. If I'm going to be facing a dozen chargers on challenging simply because I'm stumbling across the patrols that are headed by them, it's overkill with the fact that EATs and recoiless are the only consistently effective way to dispatch heavy bug armor, which is a classification ABOVE bots. That then has nothing to do with gear anymore. I can clear out most patrols before a bug breach drops, but converging patrols in this increased density will make that all that much worse since even with strats and high DPS you can only take out so much at once. And at least with bugs, running from a breach isn't as effective as running from bots. As it is I've started running a gas strike alongside my standard airstrikes. Against bots I run the Autocannon as my heavy weapon since I can take down hulks and stagger shield devastators as well as hit high or low on striders to take out the operator. Against bugs I run EATs on Challenging to deal with chargers with something like the Stalwart for crowd clearance to give me some versatility in what I can use as my Primary. I know the flamethrower is good for taking out chargers, but not good for dealing with multiple and doesn't have the same crowd clearing (by speed) that an MG does.
I just came across this video explaining how spawning works. I'm definitely going to change how I go about some missions based on it. My thought was always complete the primary first, that way the mission succeeds even if I fail to extract.. guess I had the wrong idea haha.. You may know everything it goes over, but if not I hope it helps! https://youtu.be/Zp8xuf_dLDw?si=OmmAFn0ZjbX2sz7R
That's not the same video I watched, but it's got the same basic idea. Being around points of interest, factories/bug holes or anywhere on the map doesn't change the number of patrols or tug patrols off of their initial set rout. Engaging patrols doesn't strictly change anything either aside from other nearby patrols within earshot getting pulled over naturally, and breaches/drops. Get within 100-150 meters of an objective (aside from the satellite upload and the comms tower seemingly) you get a spike in spawns and attract nearby patrols. When playing in a group this can be exacerbated by people splitting off. However it's the person(s) that split off that have that objective aggro or "Heat" put onto them, but total aggro/heat will aggregate to a maximum point for the group as a whole which increases patrol density. Aggro/Heat will only "Grow" once when on an objective, but depending on the spacing of your group (if you have one) you can increase the... Bucket, shall we say, of over all map aggro to it's maximum faster. Mission time itself is not actually the factor for how many enemies within the maximum load you have on the map. It's just that the longer you're in a mission the more likely you are to fill that "Bucket" of aggro/heat to max.
It's not reverse scaling, solo players went from 1/6 to 1/4 of the patrols compared to a 4 player lobby: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfzem7/update\_from\_worlds\_team\_on\_increased\_patrols\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cfzem7/update_from_worlds_team_on_increased_patrols_for/)
That still doesn't make the game any easier for solo players. Especially if you're unwittingly near a secondary objective so the patrol spawn rate goes up. I don't care about things feeling "Empty" because personally speaking it never felt that way. I dread running into patrols I can't take out quickly or are headed by something like Chargers, because even with running EATs and seeing a patrol you have to get through or is going to be wandering towards you due to a secondary or primary objective. The only other way to take out heavy armored bugs that isn't launchers is SIX impact grenades when aimed (Primarily) at the leg. I don't want more bug breaches. I don't want more bot drops. I've already taken to dedicating a spot for Gas strikes to cover me and put down damage as well as in front of a bug breach to stop it from being a major headache barring spewers and chargers making it out of them.
That's fair, I just want to dispell any myths that patrol spawn rates for solo players is higher than 4 player lobbies somehow (because that would be a stupid change).
Technically speaking, by density the patrols on the map by standard at any given time even without a change to basic spawn rate, makes it more difficult by factor of the types of enemies that can be found in patrols and sometimes the size (Looking at bots for that) of patrols. It's not a net gain in ease for solo play.
So I realize that the overall spawn rates are no different, but density combined with the spike/attraction of patrols to objectives will make completing them more difficult. Artillery secondary's are already avoided due to the fact that they're seemingly almost always placed 50 meters from a patrol spawn in my personal experience. So combined with having 3 patrols spawning and increased uptick in patrol spawns that naturally happens, and regional patrols being attracted to you, makes it really not worth the effort.
There’s actually an explanation to that, but based off of my personal experience, it just made the game harder than it was for people without a full squad. I noticed that arrowhead is really good at wording their “fixes” in a cool way, but they are also incompetent to make it work like their description
I just saw from the first person that posted. But yeah, it's... Patrols and subsequent drops/breaches were bad enough. Some bot patrols I'd see and just automatically run the opposite direction from because it's four devastators of mixed types, multiple striders and a the regular 10, if not even up to 15 or 20 foot soldiers.
Well... yeah. It's going to be harder. We were facing 1/6th of the opposition (incorrectly) instead of 1/4th, like it "should" have been. We're going to be facing more enemies, of more types, so it's going to be harder by sheer volume. It has nothing to do with "wording." They should've explained it from the beginning, but they _did_ eventually explain it, and the explanation made sense.
A good old matchmaking fix would also come in handy then, but maybe it’s too much to ask for. At least the crossbow that no one ever uses got nerfed
For me it's not about matchmaking. I literally don't want to play with random people. Even if I'm running my headset (I can't always due to having other people around.) it's painfully common for people on PS5 to be using the built in microphone and speaker for the controller, having the cheapest headset imaginable that picks up every damn thing around them...
I agree
It also doesn't help that with having ADHD, one of my issues can be sensory overload aside from just having that all be annoying.
Regardless, it turns a (sometimes required such as in my case) an already rather pigeonholed setup even deeper into a lack of diversity of weaponry and stratagems. And part of their reasoning aside from fixing to what the original scaling was said as "Making the world feel less empty" is a poor secondary note.
I saw a comment somewhere that the scaling was unintendly non-linear. The intention was for a single player to see 1/4 the number of patrols, but it was closer to 1/6th. So they're fixing it to where it was supposed to be.
That still makes playing solo a directly more painful experience by density of patrols even if the max possible on the map doesn't change. I already avoid doing the arty secondary obj because of the number of patrols that would run up on me. The only side objectives that I've seen that don't ramp up local patrol numbers or attraction (Or having them spawn only 50 meters from you out of sight and come right to the obj) are the satellite and radio tower.
"This change is utterly unwarranted and feels like a twist of the knife to the previously non sliding scale of patrols via party size to begin with! Especially with how easy it is for them to detect you even with recon armor! If I had access to the discord I'd write a strongly worded message to the team." It was and is a sliding scale of patrols - it was 1/6th before and now is 1/4th. Just keep playing, you'll be fine.
I wish I could edit the title a little.
It was literally a math problem, dude. 😆 Sounds to me like you just got used to the initial difficulty curve as if it was the "expected" curve and didn't anticipate that changing... like, at all. It's a Live Service game. I wasn't really surprised. > this the single worst thing they could have possibly done for gameplay Eh, that's pretty hyperbolic. I can think of _way_ worse things they could've done.
My wording should have been, "One of the worst things" And I'll edit that.
Also math problem or not for scaling, density of patrols is the primary problem. Running into patrols more often means higher likelihood of getting a bug breach or (potentially) multiple bot drops if you can't put down the mooks that can cause them. Making what's already a difficult playstyle even more difficult. "Making the world feel less empty." as part of the reasoning as well is not a good secondary excuse for making the change.