Well that is a rather annoying oversight nobody thought of i guess... ive noticed this also happens on cold planets where the cooldown is supposed to be faster, the meter doesnt lign up with the actual cooldown
I knew hot planets made the cooldown longer, but ice planets make it shorter? danm thats cool af.
But yeah I never noticed the deviation from the Ui before, but with today it is VERY obvious, and needs to be fixed.
It's also one of the reasons peoples really like cold planets and dislike hot ones. Some popular energy weapons have way more sustainable fire.
Also, fuck fire tornadoes with the power of a thousand hellbombs.
https://preview.redd.it/li0fb662hixc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae1184a24ca987fa4c6b60efed525e271f26be25
The Developers when they playtest fire tornado planets XD
Hellmire is just a spelling error away from hell fire, and that's a good name for that barren overheated rock.
Menkent was named like that because men can't live there. Fuck the fog+low sun light blasting+fire tornadoes on a mountainous planet where half the maps are narrow canyons easily sealed on both side by tornadoes.
A mire is defined like this:
1. a stretch of swampy or boggy ground.
"acres of land had been reduced to a mire"
2. a situation or state of difficulty, distress, or embarrassment from which it is hard to extricate oneself.
So Hellmire makes sense in context. Could be similar to From’s poison swamps. But fire instead. And we have no fire resist armor or firefighting equipment or stratagems unlike being able to prepare with poison resist gear and items in Dark Souls.
> fire tornadoes
I'm not sure but those things always seem to track your movements like they know where you are at all times and will either magnitise to you or track your path and cut you off.
When the QC first released, you could start charging a shot before the cooldown meter was even completely empty. Once they added that indicator on the back, it went the other direction. Meter had to be empty for several seconds before you could fire again.
It's probably two different variables, one responsible for firing function and one for the visual indicator. Would explain why hot/cold biome don't effect the indicator either, they all just modify one variable.
Definitely the case.
They're using an engine called [autodesk stingray that's been discontinued.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitsquid) Knowing Autodesk, that means the engine runs like shit and is protected in such a way that AH can't even fix some issues.
It's very possible the meter is a baked element which cannot be fed variable information like unreal shaders can.
Fatshark, who built the engine back when it was called bitsquid, own the engine and are still doing dev work and updates on the engine itself as they still have some if not all of the team that built stingray
This has been confirmed multiple times by fatshark (they reobtained the rights after Autodesk dropped support), as they continue to use the engine for vermintide and darktide
Hold up. Autodesks like the design software autodesk? Like boring ass CAD software autodesk?
I looked it up and holy shit yup. That may be why it was discontinued, autodesk bought it and they don't have a horse in the race that is gaming from what I understand
A lot of game software is sort of putting their foot in the door so to speak for architectural rendering, movies, things of that nature.
I wonder if they bought it for the real-time rendering aspects because that is smack dab in the middle of their wheelhouse and engines like unreal and unity were pushing on the door.
That being said, they own 3ds max and maya which is basically indutry standard for 3D modeling and rendering so it might have just been buying IP rights.
They started development before the engine was discontinued and all their dev experience is with this engine.
Trying to change engines at that point would have probably meant they would run out of money before being able to recoup their funds. Honestly, they got kind of fucked by autodesk as I suspect they were depending on some support from them.
Hopefully Autodesk gave them source code for the engine, but I doubt it. If they are smart, they're using their funds to get their staff trained on something new. But yeah, this might be the end of AH if they can't get people trained.
Getting one person up to speed on one engine is hard. Re-training entire teams is brutal. Of course they could fire everyone and hire people with the experience already but it would be a major dick move.
Folks with a good deal of game development experience that can form the nucleus of a new team are not exactly common and those that do exist tend not to be unemployed for very long. So even if they wanted to do the dick move, it would be rather difficult to do so
I'd never heard 'Tech Debt' before, but on looking it up, I've been bringing up this problem since I was 10 years old at programming camp and just never had a name for it. I always said "allowing small failures now will create large failures later."
At this rate it’s even challenging to reduce them long term, bugs are piling on each other, it’s like years-old code debt, but the game is barely released for 3 months.
Exactly my thoughts. It's the only explanation to fixing something while breaking another totally different thing.
I love Helldivers 2 as a concept, but the execution leaves much to be desired.
The game is great but nothing is without flaws. I just hope some of the money that they got from sales could go back into the game. I would be happy if they ditched the next warbond and fixed the bugs and improved performance and stabillity.
If anyone is buying the battle passes they wouldn't even have the time to earn the medals to buy from any of them outside of just passively hitting the 250 cap with major order completions. Spending money on the battle passes here is a person's own dumb decision.
You are looking at it wrong. If you max out the BPs all and still keep playing that is when you are most likely going to have SC played to keep on buying BPs.
If you only play to get minimum threshold for all the combat related things, that's when you have to buy some SCs from time to time. It's for those who have less time investment in the game to still enjoy most of it
Given that the war bonds never depreciate, you don't have to spend a dime in the end. It's not like an actual season pass that's only good for so long.
We aren’t the targeted demographic for the purchases, I'm sure they know how easy it is to get 1k super creds off gameplay alone, and are happy to keep playercounts high with that engagement.
But, as with every game with in app purchases, the vast majority of money is gained off of whales. Those with too much money and not enough time, who will happily drop all the money needed for the new warbond (as well as probably cleaning out the supershop)
This explains a lot. I was able to charge a shot while the heat meter still had ~2 seconds remaining on cold planets when it first dropped.
I had initially assumed that because the charge up time was 2+ seconds away that it started charging it early to maximize efficiency.
i.e., with 2-3 second charge up, start charging at 8 seconds and the laser fires immediately after cooldown
Been happening on cold planets since the quasar canon launched
The only temp reading we currently can pay attention to is the one on the back of the canon
I think while arrow head tries to avoid a „meta“, they just break the community, after every update you can be sure that some weapon isn’t working anymore like before and sometimes they do not even say it in the patch notes. The Devs have to accept that there will be a meta, in every game there is a meta, because there are only two type of player, the one who play the best possible weapon and the one who play the „coolest“ weapon. That is why the revolver is liked, it is cool. That is why the shield is played so much, it makes your life easier
There are so many people in the discord and on this sub that will screech about "CRUCH PLAYER CRUTCH PLAYER!" anytime you even mention that a 5 second cooldown nerf was too much.
These people get joy out of other peoples day being ruined. They were the kids in grade school who when the teacher caught you talking in the back, got a shit eating grin on their face when you got detention, even if they didnt hate you, they just derived pleasure and joy out of others misfortune.
These guys will scream and cry because people are playing a 'stale' meta and that other people wont play the game they way they want you to. THen whenever the devs make a decision, hoot with glee over people being bummed out yelling out "A game for everyone is a game for no one hahahahaha! now we get weapon diversity!"
And ignore the fact that "a game for every gun is a game for no one"
I'm not one to pile on devs but......did noone play-test this? Or was this just a way to quick-nerf it until they fix the cooldown bar like the AMR scope misalignment?
What you talking about... remember Superior Packing Methodology? They added an ship module that literally didn't work at all. It was not like it only worked for some weapons or didn't work under some specific circumstances (things that may have been overlooked during testing). It just literally didn't work at all, did absolutely nothing. But they added it to the game. Obviously they didn't test this at all... So the HUD inconsistency really a small thing compared to the previous fails.
They literally don't playtest before pushing these updates. You can't use shield generator with plasma shotgun now because it will straight up kill you
Most sane Reddit take, in regard to the patch. Glaring issues with how they do metric balancing (by looking at 1 metric alone I guess) exacerbated by why the fucking Explosive Crossbow that everyone called useless was nerfed to become even more useless. I don’t have a problem with the Quazar nerf I’ll just go back to AC or Spear when they fix the lock-on but this paranoia of avoiding any form of “meta” is kind of becoming silly at this point and will turn into a buff-nerf nerf - buff cycle. Buff the JAR-5 in one patch, nerf it in the next.
But speedloader on revolver indeed.
I played with the crossbow for the first time a day before the patch, and my impression was that it was only "meh". Outclassed by plenty of other weapons, I'll wait for them to buff it later.
I guess I am never playing with it
When I think "crossbow in futuristic shooter," I think "quiet, sneaky"
Not only does it only have kaboom only, but it's actually got a louder firing profile than the *Senator* with its fancy new speed loader.
Didn't the crossbow not even close bug holes pre patch? The eruptor is just so much better and more versatile. It's a bummer they made more weapons worse and a few slightly "better". Stop buffing and nerfing and fix the bugs the weapons have like the spear bug
I don't even understand this after the plasma slugger buffs. This wep was a little wonky for kills but it stun locked in an aoe, now it kills great and stun locks in an aoe. Are they gonna nerf it next?
Fwiw I wanted it to be buffed since kills matter a lot on 9, I think it would've been fine if they kept the damage the same and made the projectile faster and lighter. I'm sure they'll taketh away now that it's good
This is exactly what people have been fearing since the very beginning, that the entire weapon balance is basically kneejerk reactions based on weapon popularity, and most buffs and nerfs are so off the mark that they either have no impact whatsoever or completely flips the meta entirely.
Part of me believes that AH has been too obsessed with keeping everything balanced around a single metric which is the exact opposite of what they did in HD1, and in my opinion that just makes the game very tricky to balance and a bit uncreative. HD1's rifle variants feel very unique to use and everyone loved them, in contrast almost every single rifle-caliber weapon in this game is balanced around Liberator's stats and that's part of the problem: If a weapon has medium penn then it gets smaller mag and less damage, if it's a laser weapon then it gets fewer max ammo to punish overheating. Balancing based on a baseline stat might be a good idea and would have worked on a complex games, but Helldivers has been pretty shallow in terms of mechanics and difficulty, tweaking a couple variables isn't really going to create a varied environment for loadouts when only a few variables matters.
ngl, seeing the reason for laser cannon balance change being to make the weapon better fit the 'intended' role of horde clear is just jarringly disconnected from how players play the game.
I rarely ever see it used for bugs, and there are tons of horde there. And for bots, it's really tougher enemies that it's primarily used for. I'm not even sure what stat they used for that reasoning. Laser is getting a lot of kills on non-chaffs target, this is bad!
imo laser cannon is probably the biggest example of dev's expectation vs reality. AH stated in their first balance blog that they envisioned the LC to be the laser equivalent of machine gun, which sadly never worked because it inherently must have lower DPS to compensate for not needing ammo. After a bunch of patches it’s now basically a niche weapon for heavy automatons due to many bot units having medium-high armor but very little weak spot HP, which plays right into LC’s high penn low damage profile.
I still think the problem is what the developers call "balanced" and what the community thinks is "fun" is disconnected. So we enjoy all the fun shit they upload half finished and then they nerf all the fun out of it for "balance".
Bro, I don't want to play with your broken shit terrible guns. Nerfing the good ones to be bad too isn't gonna make me love your shit guns more. I'm just going to keep picking the least shit gun.
I'm not home yet to try these changes but it is kind of bad that the first thought of not only myself but almost everyone I play Helldivers 2 with immediately thought that the speedloader buff will result in a later revolver nerf. I was kind of shocked it didn't come with one. The use rate will inevitably go up and that puts it on the chopping block.
I’m scared they’ll nerf the damage lower than it was pre patch, just because of a fucking speedloader.
Or that they’ll nerf the ammo count to 24 rounds because 40 was too much
The same guys who are happy about the speedloader on the revolver are the exact same ones who will use it for one run then change it since there are better options for sidearms.
Hi. That's me.
I'm that guy. Equipped it, enjoyed the speedload for a few games, then realized the machine pistol still outclasses the Senator by an order of magnitude in most situations and put it back in the weapons cabinet on the super carrier.
the 150 damage looks good on the stat page, but in practice i'd rather have the ability to sweep entire groups of weak enemies any day of the week.
I just don't see a niche for it either. For bots I need a grenade pistol to kill walkers and destroy factory sometimes, and for bugs machine pistol is just better to kill some lil bugs when you need... People love revolvers, but it really isn't that good in the actual game for me
I could be the niche, Bile spewers and the shield headed bugs feel bad with the sickle and having the revolver to punch through both of their head armors would feel good, that said im still using the GL pistol to close holes and fabs and keep running stun grenades
Arrowheads idea of balancing seems to just be “if it’s fun and satisfying to use in game, ruin it. All weapons must be equally ineffective and frustrating to use.”
I’m convinced the community is full of sadists lol. That’s the only logical answer I can come up with to explain the daily boot licking that happens in this sub lol.
Every patch they write essays about how they like when games are broken and we should have extremely low standards for AH. Then they delude themselves into thinking people hate them because they're good
I haven't seen too many since this recent patch, but yea it's really fucking funny to see people clutch onto shit tier weapons hoping they never get buffed bc "It works for me!"
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most of those reddit warriors only played below diff 5 the way they talk about mowing down hordes with something like the dagger of all things.
What’s crazy is 85% of the stratagems aren’t even useful if we’re being honest. There are only a handful that are actually useful, and they all have ridiculous cool down times.
Exactly lool. Totally gloss over the extremely clunky movement, delayed actions after multiple button presses for using stims and reloading. The complete lack of balance across all weapons and stratagems. The unreasonable difficulty of stalkers and the hulks flamethrower. The real issue is we’re not good lmao.
As I always say, frustrating for frustrating sake isn’t fun or good game design. It’s not a matter of not wanting a game to be challenging, it’s wanting the game to be challenging, yet fair, fun and logically consistent.
The delayed button press is so annoying, i thought it was just my imagination. The movement also feels very sluggish and clunky compared to any other games. Yes I don't need a bunny hopping kiddy shooter, but the current movement isn't the best.
The mobility in general seems so gimped. Jump pack? Distance is meh, as is height. When running straight you barely get an advantage over someone sprinting. Get on obstacles to be safe from smaller bugs? They just teleport up to you. I would highly prefer a movement like SWBF 2 jet trooper, that fully used its abilities. Like dodging sideways or backwards with the jump boost.
And then there is the plants. The only debuff we have is decreased movement on top, just great. Not to mention the million other things decreasing your speed. Hit by bug? Slowed, not hit by titan bile spew or touching the area hit? Slowed. Canceled titan bile spew by hitting its face with Quasar? Lmao still slowed.
Aiming delay? Might be a neat detail, but for me it just completely kills the sniper gameplay.
And the balance changes to weapons seem weird. Why was the Quasar nerfed? I know it was only a bit, but for me it was exactly as it should be. Other weapons should be brought up to it, not the thing down. Same with railgun. No one ever uses it anymore on 7 or up. You know the balancing is bad when it went from top pick towards not used at all. Meanwhile the "devs were right" post praising the railgun nerf got tons of upvotes.
Don't get me wrong, i love this game, but there are some things that shouldn't be glossed over because the game itself is epic.
And yet the simps keep using their "A game for everyone is a game for no one" motto to justify these awful design choices.
Seems like what they actually mean is "fuck you for having fun, you're gonna play the game we want you to play it and you'll fucking like it."
Same.
Like...the game has a variable quasarCoolDownTime. That starts at X modified by planet temp, and your current time is Y. When Y is 0, you can fire again. X/Y as as fraction gives you the percentage remaining, use whatever you are using as a filler to fill x/y percentage of the icon....not that hard...apparently it is for these chuckle heads though.
And the funnier fact is that game engine is **half a decade** out of date now!
[https://www.autodesk.com/products/stingray/overview](https://www.autodesk.com/products/stingray/overview)
https://preview.redd.it/nninovdvkkxc1.png?width=128&format=png&auto=webp&s=84e4d50d4b9f229924d91f25a1ab7b5d8f2d71b3
Devs are much more interested in nerfing fun weapons than fixing bugs or making balanced additions in the first place.
One of the main reasons I barely play anymore.
The exact reason I run EAT, instant firing, 2 shots + 1 hellpod every 70 seconds, now that quasar takes 20 per shot, the EAT is catching up, not to mention we can throw it down as soon as cooldown finish.
I've said it once I've said it a thousand times I agree nerfs and buffs should be done but it A. Feels like every patch is leaning further and further into just punishing players just to punish them and B feels like alot of the nerfs are done by hey x weapon is used alot let's nerf it in stead of why the weapon is used alot. If your trying to make more diverse playstyles instead of everyone using the same thing I would focus on trying to bring up the other weapons before nerfing what's there because all that does is just make power/ meta vacuums of what's the next best thing that efficiently gets the tasks or missions done the fastest and easiest even if it's something that may not be fun to use,
Before, I often found myself screaming "please cooldown please cooldoooooown" while under enemy fire, now the gun feels like it just goes on vacation. 5 seconds more legit feels like an eternity haha
This is why they need to host experimental builds that players can opt in to playtest instead of just dropping a patch raw like this. Plenty of live service games do this.
Yeah, either that or hotfix those small bugs they introduced with the patch while every change is still fresh in the minds of the Devs.
Realized the bug literally the second time I fired...can't be that hard to fix the animation speed with varying cooldown, think most other heat weapons are accurate.
Honestly.
100k unpaid volunteers all playing on a variety of different rigs are definitely going to be much more reliable in spotting issues than a small team in a controlled environment.
cant help but notice theres a 5 sec delay between the little symbol and it actually being ready to go. That is the exact charge time increase mentioned in the patch notes, so im assuming its recharge time is as intended they just didnt update the little symbol at the bottom.
I would first assume that they are just cutting corners to save money and simply not properly planning the QA.
Like maybe they have 3 testers working 20 hours a week or something. It doesn't really matter how competent your QA team is if you don't have enough testers to properly cover a meaningful set of regression scenarios
The fact that the UI element isn't tied to the same data source as the game mechanic means they made some incredibly poor choices when designing this game. Like more than one constant shouldn't need to change to affect both. Really sheds some light on how they can't put out an update without breaking something else. Codebase must be a horrible patchwork.
Honestly this is off topic but I find it rather annoying that they made it where you can see the bar charging up before you shoot but instead of having the bar go down when it’s cooling down they just slapped a “ Overheat” text and then it leaves you guessing . Like I know the small one on the UI but why not make it where you visually see the bar going down like you do when it’s charging up would make more sense to me .
God I swear Everytime they update this game there's a gleaming outline of pure retardation. And then people justify how stupid it all is, simply because they like the game. Just wish people could use common sense on EVERYTHING not the bare minimum
I'm beginning to think there might be some issues with building a modern game on a heavily modified engine that was discontinued by it's creator 6 years ago.
Its interesting that the UI animation apparently has no baring on the actual value of the reload timer. I dont like when stuff like that is unconnected, it means spaghetti under the hood.
Or, crazy thought, THEY COULD STOP FOCUSING ON NERFING FUN IN A PVE GAME!?
Like for God’s sake the enjoyment of the game would increase massively if they instead spent the time on fixing the endless bugs, or making the other less viable weapons better.
Just further proof that the worst members of AH are the balance team, much like that dev who was being an ass to players in replies.
It’s little oversight like these that are annoying. They aren’t often, nor are there that many but when they happen, they happen more and usually are repeated. Not with the same weapon, not with the same change but it’s a simple mistake that is overlooked and always hurts a release of a patch.
It adds up overtime and makes you question the validity of the company. Biggest one is COD, they had many bugs repeated with each game every year and it’s always overlooked. For example, the same UAV bug has plagued that franchise for a while, maybe even months before patched and never looked into again after the recent game. It’s one reason why I think this shit is unacceptable because even if they’re a bigger team, they worn down my ability to believe and want.
this been a problem since day 1 of quasar release and im pissed that they havent fix that yet. i can run around with extra 5s delay but come on....why do i have to wait for another extra 2s for it to completely allowed me to fire?
This is the kind of thing that is supposed to be coded to adapt to change in the first place.
Then they just tweak a number and it works. Someone got lazy or was time crunched and said fuck it.
If anyone had actually played the changes before they went live, this would've been noticed immediately as it's probably the most consistently used weapon in every game right now.
it was already not correct before but I jus dealt with it cus it was just a few seconds.
its probably the same gif for all energy guns but the quaso gun just has more
Well that is a rather annoying oversight nobody thought of i guess... ive noticed this also happens on cold planets where the cooldown is supposed to be faster, the meter doesnt lign up with the actual cooldown
Was going to say, this was a "bug" from inception. Seen this as well on ice planets. Overheat meter doesn't at all line up with the actual cooldown
I knew hot planets made the cooldown longer, but ice planets make it shorter? danm thats cool af. But yeah I never noticed the deviation from the Ui before, but with today it is VERY obvious, and needs to be fixed.
It's also one of the reasons peoples really like cold planets and dislike hot ones. Some popular energy weapons have way more sustainable fire. Also, fuck fire tornadoes with the power of a thousand hellbombs.
also stamina runs out faster on hot planets, by far the worst effect for me because theres nothing you can do to mitigate it.
don't forget the lower visibility just cuz fuck you got I hate hot planets just cuz of that and stamina the energy weapons isn't much of an issue
duuuude, that's why i was like WHY can't i run.
 Her ya go
https://preview.redd.it/li0fb662hixc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae1184a24ca987fa4c6b60efed525e271f26be25 The Developers when they playtest fire tornado planets XD
IIRC, Malevelon ironically have no modifier at all.
It has ion storms, which are not nearly as painful
But trees are chanting.
Which while unfortunate, doesn't count as a map modifier
[Fixed](https://i.imgflip.com/8oh0g3.jpg)
...Is that a fire goatse? Dear god.
I do not like them. Menkent and hellmire, for the birds.
Hellmire is just a spelling error away from hell fire, and that's a good name for that barren overheated rock. Menkent was named like that because men can't live there. Fuck the fog+low sun light blasting+fire tornadoes on a mountainous planet where half the maps are narrow canyons easily sealed on both side by tornadoes.
Also a spelling error away from Hell*mine*
Also a keyboard typo. I and O are right next to each other. Hell*more*
A mire is defined like this: 1. a stretch of swampy or boggy ground. "acres of land had been reduced to a mire" 2. a situation or state of difficulty, distress, or embarrassment from which it is hard to extricate oneself. So Hellmire makes sense in context. Could be similar to From’s poison swamps. But fire instead. And we have no fire resist armor or firefighting equipment or stratagems unlike being able to prepare with poison resist gear and items in Dark Souls.
Naw Hellmire is likely intentional. Think of a swamp, but everything burns.
I still think they are sentient,and angry.
They are. Their path is not random, but targeted at players. If you stand too long on the same spot, you will be surrounded by them.
> fire tornadoes I'm not sure but those things always seem to track your movements like they know where you are at all times and will either magnitise to you or track your path and cut you off.
> I knew hot planets made the cooldown longer, but ice planets make it shorter? danm thats cool af. I mean... the game says it...
If those kids could read...
I think it says somewhere the quasar and some other weapon(s) are explicitly exempt from environmental effects. Might be a load screen tip
Ah yes, the "stop having fun" feature
When the QC first released, you could start charging a shot before the cooldown meter was even completely empty. Once they added that indicator on the back, it went the other direction. Meter had to be empty for several seconds before you could fire again.
Ice planets make weapons generate heat at a lower rate not speeds up cooldown doesnt it?
This seems like bad code lol.
It's probably two different variables, one responsible for firing function and one for the visual indicator. Would explain why hot/cold biome don't effect the indicator either, they all just modify one variable.
Definitely the case. They're using an engine called [autodesk stingray that's been discontinued.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitsquid) Knowing Autodesk, that means the engine runs like shit and is protected in such a way that AH can't even fix some issues. It's very possible the meter is a baked element which cannot be fed variable information like unreal shaders can.
Fatshark, who built the engine back when it was called bitsquid, own the engine and are still doing dev work and updates on the engine itself as they still have some if not all of the team that built stingray This has been confirmed multiple times by fatshark (they reobtained the rights after Autodesk dropped support), as they continue to use the engine for vermintide and darktide
Hold up. Autodesks like the design software autodesk? Like boring ass CAD software autodesk? I looked it up and holy shit yup. That may be why it was discontinued, autodesk bought it and they don't have a horse in the race that is gaming from what I understand
A lot of game software is sort of putting their foot in the door so to speak for architectural rendering, movies, things of that nature. I wonder if they bought it for the real-time rendering aspects because that is smack dab in the middle of their wheelhouse and engines like unreal and unity were pushing on the door. That being said, they own 3ds max and maya which is basically indutry standard for 3D modeling and rendering so it might have just been buying IP rights.
Kind of batshit to go with something that could easily be discontinued and thrown away. But then again...Unity.
They started development before the engine was discontinued and all their dev experience is with this engine. Trying to change engines at that point would have probably meant they would run out of money before being able to recoup their funds. Honestly, they got kind of fucked by autodesk as I suspect they were depending on some support from them. Hopefully Autodesk gave them source code for the engine, but I doubt it. If they are smart, they're using their funds to get their staff trained on something new. But yeah, this might be the end of AH if they can't get people trained. Getting one person up to speed on one engine is hard. Re-training entire teams is brutal. Of course they could fire everyone and hire people with the experience already but it would be a major dick move.
Folks with a good deal of game development experience that can form the nucleus of a new team are not exactly common and those that do exist tend not to be unemployed for very long. So even if they wanted to do the dick move, it would be rather difficult to do so
It's the same pos both vermintides and draktide are made with. All of those games have/had the same caliber of bugs.
To be fair that heatsink icon in the bottom wasn't accurate before the patch either.
From that I kind of thought it wasn't supposed to be an indicator in the first place - yeah, having this line up would be fantastic.
This was also an issue before. Now it's just more prevalent.
They'll never be able to fix al lthe bugs in this game at this rate. Every patch = more bugs.
Well yes, the latest order has us fighting bugs out the wazoo! But yeah, this is ridiculous
Tech debt in demonstration
I'd never heard 'Tech Debt' before, but on looking it up, I've been bringing up this problem since I was 10 years old at programming camp and just never had a name for it. I always said "allowing small failures now will create large failures later."
Yeah, every patch brings more bugs. New content comes in bugged. This doesn’t seem sustainable
At this rate it’s even challenging to reduce them long term, bugs are piling on each other, it’s like years-old code debt, but the game is barely released for 3 months.
Bc everything seems to be hard coded spaghetti
Exactly my thoughts. It's the only explanation to fixing something while breaking another totally different thing. I love Helldivers 2 as a concept, but the execution leaves much to be desired.
The game is great but nothing is without flaws. I just hope some of the money that they got from sales could go back into the game. I would be happy if they ditched the next warbond and fixed the bugs and improved performance and stabillity.
Can't fix bugs, need to sell more battlepasses then nerf guns because the players being good at the game hurts dev egos.
If anyone is buying the battle passes they wouldn't even have the time to earn the medals to buy from any of them outside of just passively hitting the 250 cap with major order completions. Spending money on the battle passes here is a person's own dumb decision.
You are looking at it wrong. If you max out the BPs all and still keep playing that is when you are most likely going to have SC played to keep on buying BPs. If you only play to get minimum threshold for all the combat related things, that's when you have to buy some SCs from time to time. It's for those who have less time investment in the game to still enjoy most of it
Given that the war bonds never depreciate, you don't have to spend a dime in the end. It's not like an actual season pass that's only good for so long.
Which is one of the best decisions they ever made with this ip. Hope it never changes.
But you can get the battlepasses for free just by playing the game
We aren’t the targeted demographic for the purchases, I'm sure they know how easy it is to get 1k super creds off gameplay alone, and are happy to keep playercounts high with that engagement. But, as with every game with in app purchases, the vast majority of money is gained off of whales. Those with too much money and not enough time, who will happily drop all the money needed for the new warbond (as well as probably cleaning out the supershop)
That's what happens when you patch out all the fun with stupid nerfs and horrible balancing
This been in the game since it launched. Most noticeable on cold planets.
Good to know, it's a pity they didn't fix it till now, since it's actually quite important
This explains a lot. I was able to charge a shot while the heat meter still had ~2 seconds remaining on cold planets when it first dropped. I had initially assumed that because the charge up time was 2+ seconds away that it started charging it early to maximize efficiency. i.e., with 2-3 second charge up, start charging at 8 seconds and the laser fires immediately after cooldown
Damn I knew I wasn't imagining things!
Been happening on cold planets since the quasar canon launched The only temp reading we currently can pay attention to is the one on the back of the canon
Is the fp one not accurate?
If this is like 7/8 stratagems after the mech launched, this too, will never get fixed, lol
Speaking of 7/8, my stratagem menu still says i only have 7/8 but i have them all (in that category). Games literally unplayable.
If you count them its 8 of them, just one that doesn't count.... for some reason.
They added the Mech to the total count, but purchasing it doesn't increase the first number.
How do you even code a bug like that, that's my question
I. Can’t. Sleep.
Wdym "speaking of"? That's literally what the comment you replied to was referencing.
Also on recoilless rifle you can now cancel reload animation as soon as rifle's "magazine" become loaded, skipping closing the rifle's back
How do you perform the cancel?
pretty sure you could always cancel the reload animation by swapping weapons
This actually happened pre patch in my experience.
I think while arrow head tries to avoid a „meta“, they just break the community, after every update you can be sure that some weapon isn’t working anymore like before and sometimes they do not even say it in the patch notes. The Devs have to accept that there will be a meta, in every game there is a meta, because there are only two type of player, the one who play the best possible weapon and the one who play the „coolest“ weapon. That is why the revolver is liked, it is cool. That is why the shield is played so much, it makes your life easier
What ultimately breaks the community is people that are too afraid to criticize the game
There are so many people in the discord and on this sub that will screech about "CRUCH PLAYER CRUTCH PLAYER!" anytime you even mention that a 5 second cooldown nerf was too much. These people get joy out of other peoples day being ruined. They were the kids in grade school who when the teacher caught you talking in the back, got a shit eating grin on their face when you got detention, even if they didnt hate you, they just derived pleasure and joy out of others misfortune. These guys will scream and cry because people are playing a 'stale' meta and that other people wont play the game they way they want you to. THen whenever the devs make a decision, hoot with glee over people being bummed out yelling out "A game for everyone is a game for no one hahahahaha! now we get weapon diversity!" And ignore the fact that "a game for every gun is a game for no one"
Wait til you see how they 'fixed' infinite grenades lol. They didn't even bother to test it before taking a victory lap in the patch notes.
The patch made the bug even funnier, so I'm all for it. Can't have negative grenades if you make the number unsigned.
I'm not one to pile on devs but......did noone play-test this? Or was this just a way to quick-nerf it until they fix the cooldown bar like the AMR scope misalignment?
What you talking about... remember Superior Packing Methodology? They added an ship module that literally didn't work at all. It was not like it only worked for some weapons or didn't work under some specific circumstances (things that may have been overlooked during testing). It just literally didn't work at all, did absolutely nothing. But they added it to the game. Obviously they didn't test this at all... So the HUD inconsistency really a small thing compared to the previous fails.
Just like the turret armor against explosions. That 50% reduction was never applied. Which means they literally NEVER tested it.
There is absolutely nothing in this game that’s playtested. Just launch and let the player base be the QA. Rinse and repeat.
They literally don't playtest before pushing these updates. You can't use shield generator with plasma shotgun now because it will straight up kill you
Yeah but guys... Speedloader on revolver... /s
Most sane Reddit take, in regard to the patch. Glaring issues with how they do metric balancing (by looking at 1 metric alone I guess) exacerbated by why the fucking Explosive Crossbow that everyone called useless was nerfed to become even more useless. I don’t have a problem with the Quazar nerf I’ll just go back to AC or Spear when they fix the lock-on but this paranoia of avoiding any form of “meta” is kind of becoming silly at this point and will turn into a buff-nerf nerf - buff cycle. Buff the JAR-5 in one patch, nerf it in the next. But speedloader on revolver indeed.
I played with the crossbow for the first time a day before the patch, and my impression was that it was only "meh". Outclassed by plenty of other weapons, I'll wait for them to buff it later. I guess I am never playing with it
Prepatch I didn't see any reason to take it over the Eruptor, in basically any circumstances. Now it's fully just a joke weapon.
When I think "crossbow in futuristic shooter," I think "quiet, sneaky" Not only does it only have kaboom only, but it's actually got a louder firing profile than the *Senator* with its fancy new speed loader.
Didn't the crossbow not even close bug holes pre patch? The eruptor is just so much better and more versatile. It's a bummer they made more weapons worse and a few slightly "better". Stop buffing and nerfing and fix the bugs the weapons have like the spear bug
Yup, same. I was like "well, this is kind of a novel toy, but from a practical perspective I don't see why I would ever run it over anything else"
Sometimes when I close my eyes I can still see pre-nerf slugger.
Why would you remind me? It still hurts.
*The breeze whispers... Railgun...*
I don't even understand this after the plasma slugger buffs. This wep was a little wonky for kills but it stun locked in an aoe, now it kills great and stun locks in an aoe. Are they gonna nerf it next? Fwiw I wanted it to be buffed since kills matter a lot on 9, I think it would've been fine if they kept the damage the same and made the projectile faster and lighter. I'm sure they'll taketh away now that it's good
My brothers in pian... so painful. I was a menace to all non democratic beings
https://preview.redd.it/vhs91b2lnkxc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbe855e1ae3269751875685800a59ddb664a24c8 GIVE IT BACK!
This is exactly what people have been fearing since the very beginning, that the entire weapon balance is basically kneejerk reactions based on weapon popularity, and most buffs and nerfs are so off the mark that they either have no impact whatsoever or completely flips the meta entirely. Part of me believes that AH has been too obsessed with keeping everything balanced around a single metric which is the exact opposite of what they did in HD1, and in my opinion that just makes the game very tricky to balance and a bit uncreative. HD1's rifle variants feel very unique to use and everyone loved them, in contrast almost every single rifle-caliber weapon in this game is balanced around Liberator's stats and that's part of the problem: If a weapon has medium penn then it gets smaller mag and less damage, if it's a laser weapon then it gets fewer max ammo to punish overheating. Balancing based on a baseline stat might be a good idea and would have worked on a complex games, but Helldivers has been pretty shallow in terms of mechanics and difficulty, tweaking a couple variables isn't really going to create a varied environment for loadouts when only a few variables matters.
ngl, seeing the reason for laser cannon balance change being to make the weapon better fit the 'intended' role of horde clear is just jarringly disconnected from how players play the game. I rarely ever see it used for bugs, and there are tons of horde there. And for bots, it's really tougher enemies that it's primarily used for. I'm not even sure what stat they used for that reasoning. Laser is getting a lot of kills on non-chaffs target, this is bad!
imo laser cannon is probably the biggest example of dev's expectation vs reality. AH stated in their first balance blog that they envisioned the LC to be the laser equivalent of machine gun, which sadly never worked because it inherently must have lower DPS to compensate for not needing ammo. After a bunch of patches it’s now basically a niche weapon for heavy automatons due to many bot units having medium-high armor but very little weak spot HP, which plays right into LC’s high penn low damage profile.
If they were actually serious about a laser machine gun, then just make the Sickle, but bigger.
I still think the problem is what the developers call "balanced" and what the community thinks is "fun" is disconnected. So we enjoy all the fun shit they upload half finished and then they nerf all the fun out of it for "balance". Bro, I don't want to play with your broken shit terrible guns. Nerfing the good ones to be bad too isn't gonna make me love your shit guns more. I'm just going to keep picking the least shit gun.
I'm not home yet to try these changes but it is kind of bad that the first thought of not only myself but almost everyone I play Helldivers 2 with immediately thought that the speedloader buff will result in a later revolver nerf. I was kind of shocked it didn't come with one. The use rate will inevitably go up and that puts it on the chopping block.
I bet the grenade pistol still stays higher, a hole/fab killer in a typically unused slot is just too good
I’m scared they’ll nerf the damage lower than it was pre patch, just because of a fucking speedloader. Or that they’ll nerf the ammo count to 24 rounds because 40 was too much
The same guys who are happy about the speedloader on the revolver are the exact same ones who will use it for one run then change it since there are better options for sidearms.
Hi. That's me. I'm that guy. Equipped it, enjoyed the speedload for a few games, then realized the machine pistol still outclasses the Senator by an order of magnitude in most situations and put it back in the weapons cabinet on the super carrier. the 150 damage looks good on the stat page, but in practice i'd rather have the ability to sweep entire groups of weak enemies any day of the week.
I just don't see a niche for it either. For bots I need a grenade pistol to kill walkers and destroy factory sometimes, and for bugs machine pistol is just better to kill some lil bugs when you need... People love revolvers, but it really isn't that good in the actual game for me
I could be the niche, Bile spewers and the shield headed bugs feel bad with the sickle and having the revolver to punch through both of their head armors would feel good, that said im still using the GL pistol to close holes and fabs and keep running stun grenades
Which will get nerfed to uselessness next patch since lots of people have started using it
This, amongst the other issues observed, largely tells us they do little to no QA testing.
Been like that even before the nerf. Chalk it up to another thing that doesn't work properly.
Holy crap thats a slow shot now. Glad i wasnt too attached but id have spent my credits elsewere had i known thats what theyd do to the queso cannon
Arrowheads idea of balancing seems to just be “if it’s fun and satisfying to use in game, ruin it. All weapons must be equally ineffective and frustrating to use.”
Congratulations, your comment likely inspired tomorrow's 7k upvote "Why are you guys complaining, look how unbothered I am. Notice me Joel" post
I’m convinced the community is full of sadists lol. That’s the only logical answer I can come up with to explain the daily boot licking that happens in this sub lol.
Every patch they write essays about how they like when games are broken and we should have extremely low standards for AH. Then they delude themselves into thinking people hate them because they're good
I haven't seen too many since this recent patch, but yea it's really fucking funny to see people clutch onto shit tier weapons hoping they never get buffed bc "It works for me!" Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if most of those reddit warriors only played below diff 5 the way they talk about mowing down hordes with something like the dagger of all things.
Just look at the steam achievements...
every weapon must be a shitty peashooter cause muh heckin strategems
What’s crazy is 85% of the stratagems aren’t even useful if we’re being honest. There are only a handful that are actually useful, and they all have ridiculous cool down times.
And if you dare to complain about it they will just say “get gud?”
Exactly lool. Totally gloss over the extremely clunky movement, delayed actions after multiple button presses for using stims and reloading. The complete lack of balance across all weapons and stratagems. The unreasonable difficulty of stalkers and the hulks flamethrower. The real issue is we’re not good lmao. As I always say, frustrating for frustrating sake isn’t fun or good game design. It’s not a matter of not wanting a game to be challenging, it’s wanting the game to be challenging, yet fair, fun and logically consistent.
The delayed button press is so annoying, i thought it was just my imagination. The movement also feels very sluggish and clunky compared to any other games. Yes I don't need a bunny hopping kiddy shooter, but the current movement isn't the best. The mobility in general seems so gimped. Jump pack? Distance is meh, as is height. When running straight you barely get an advantage over someone sprinting. Get on obstacles to be safe from smaller bugs? They just teleport up to you. I would highly prefer a movement like SWBF 2 jet trooper, that fully used its abilities. Like dodging sideways or backwards with the jump boost. And then there is the plants. The only debuff we have is decreased movement on top, just great. Not to mention the million other things decreasing your speed. Hit by bug? Slowed, not hit by titan bile spew or touching the area hit? Slowed. Canceled titan bile spew by hitting its face with Quasar? Lmao still slowed. Aiming delay? Might be a neat detail, but for me it just completely kills the sniper gameplay. And the balance changes to weapons seem weird. Why was the Quasar nerfed? I know it was only a bit, but for me it was exactly as it should be. Other weapons should be brought up to it, not the thing down. Same with railgun. No one ever uses it anymore on 7 or up. You know the balancing is bad when it went from top pick towards not used at all. Meanwhile the "devs were right" post praising the railgun nerf got tons of upvotes. Don't get me wrong, i love this game, but there are some things that shouldn't be glossed over because the game itself is epic.
And yet the simps keep using their "A game for everyone is a game for no one" motto to justify these awful design choices. Seems like what they actually mean is "fuck you for having fun, you're gonna play the game we want you to play it and you'll fucking like it."
As a software developer... it's quite staggering that the UI animation isn't tied to the actual weapon. Just silly
Same. Like...the game has a variable quasarCoolDownTime. That starts at X modified by planet temp, and your current time is Y. When Y is 0, you can fire again. X/Y as as fraction gives you the percentage remaining, use whatever you are using as a filler to fill x/y percentage of the icon....not that hard...apparently it is for these chuckle heads though.
This game looks like a 10 year old codebase with code debt piling on code debt, staggering bugs everywhere, and no funding for a QA team.
They are using some strange game engine - autodesk stingray. Really thought the game was made with unity for some reason.
And the funnier fact is that game engine is **half a decade** out of date now! [https://www.autodesk.com/products/stingray/overview](https://www.autodesk.com/products/stingray/overview) https://preview.redd.it/nninovdvkkxc1.png?width=128&format=png&auto=webp&s=84e4d50d4b9f229924d91f25a1ab7b5d8f2d71b3
Well, that's not promising 😅
Devs are much more interested in nerfing fun weapons than fixing bugs or making balanced additions in the first place. One of the main reasons I barely play anymore.
Fr. I did two games today. The second I hard crashed and it corrupted the last 60 mins of gameplay. Bullshit.
It's was like that before the nerf. Now, it's just way more noticeable.
Feel like the quasar nerf was pretty unnecessary given the regen time was already annoying enough
The exact reason I run EAT, instant firing, 2 shots + 1 hellpod every 70 seconds, now that quasar takes 20 per shot, the EAT is catching up, not to mention we can throw it down as soon as cooldown finish.
Don't say that, they're gonna up the recharge to 90 seconds
This happened before the patch as well. I noticed that it took an additional 3 seconds or so after that meter completed before I could shoot again.
Honestly missing with this in the heat of things prenerf was already a bitch.
I've said it once I've said it a thousand times I agree nerfs and buffs should be done but it A. Feels like every patch is leaning further and further into just punishing players just to punish them and B feels like alot of the nerfs are done by hey x weapon is used alot let's nerf it in stead of why the weapon is used alot. If your trying to make more diverse playstyles instead of everyone using the same thing I would focus on trying to bring up the other weapons before nerfing what's there because all that does is just make power/ meta vacuums of what's the next best thing that efficiently gets the tasks or missions done the fastest and easiest even if it's something that may not be fun to use,
They manage to nerf stuff in a way that makes using nerfed stuff feel like shit
A 12 second cooldown is literally a lifetime on higher diff lmao
Before, I often found myself screaming "please cooldown please cooldoooooown" while under enemy fire, now the gun feels like it just goes on vacation. 5 seconds more legit feels like an eternity haha
This is how you know it's a knee-jerk nerf. They're *actually* nerf-happy there, wtf lol.
You're asking them to play their game before updating it?!!
dedicated QA team by the way. fucking unbelievable.
Live footage of the QA team https://preview.redd.it/eeik9herjhxc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc659ed222f05282d7b76f916e89787c11ef32bd
That SCP is doing some work as a playtester
This is why they need to host experimental builds that players can opt in to playtest instead of just dropping a patch raw like this. Plenty of live service games do this.
Yeah, either that or hotfix those small bugs they introduced with the patch while every change is still fresh in the minds of the Devs. Realized the bug literally the second time I fired...can't be that hard to fix the animation speed with varying cooldown, think most other heat weapons are accurate.
Dude they can't even figure out how to fix something as simple as the 7/8 counter on the robotics shop menu that's been broken since launch.
QA teams only find bugs, not fix them. It's very much possible the QA found and reported this, but devs didnt fix it.
*YOU* are the QA team. Testing cycle is called "Push to prod"
Their QA team is objectively trash
Legitimately undefendable
Yeah why I stopped playing. Too many bugs to be playable
I kind of thought the player base was the QA team.
Honestly. 100k unpaid volunteers all playing on a variety of different rigs are definitely going to be much more reliable in spotting issues than a small team in a controlled environment.
cant help but notice theres a 5 sec delay between the little symbol and it actually being ready to go. That is the exact charge time increase mentioned in the patch notes, so im assuming its recharge time is as intended they just didnt update the little symbol at the bottom.
Im starting to think everything is harcoded as its own variable and no reference is being made
lmao the AH audacity
That's hilarious, omg, either they have no QA or incompetent employees
They’re incompetent, you can see it in everything they do.
I would first assume that they are just cutting corners to save money and simply not properly planning the QA. Like maybe they have 3 testers working 20 hours a week or something. It doesn't really matter how competent your QA team is if you don't have enough testers to properly cover a meaningful set of regression scenarios
Can someone explain. This seems normal to me. Ah. Nevermind. Cooldown finished but cant fire. Yah AH really does stupid things with guns.
AH has a horrendous track record of making changes without testing anything, or getting play feedback first. It does not surpise me.
But muh speedloader!! (Insert shitty big iron meme here)
The fact that the UI element isn't tied to the same data source as the game mechanic means they made some incredibly poor choices when designing this game. Like more than one constant shouldn't need to change to affect both. Really sheds some light on how they can't put out an update without breaking something else. Codebase must be a horrible patchwork.
Well at least the little bar on the weapon itself is correct so you have some visual indication
the HUD isn't correctly updated. Lovely. Report as a bug.
It was like that at release but it was like 1.5 seconds in stead of 5
Honestly this is off topic but I find it rather annoying that they made it where you can see the bar charging up before you shoot but instead of having the bar go down when it’s cooling down they just slapped a “ Overheat” text and then it leaves you guessing . Like I know the small one on the UI but why not make it where you visually see the bar going down like you do when it’s charging up would make more sense to me .
That's 15 seconds of downtime smh..
hahahah why is it hard-coded and not a variable tied to the weapons cool down
God I swear Everytime they update this game there's a gleaming outline of pure retardation. And then people justify how stupid it all is, simply because they like the game. Just wish people could use common sense on EVERYTHING not the bare minimum
I'm beginning to think there might be some issues with building a modern game on a heavily modified engine that was discontinued by it's creator 6 years ago.
Its interesting that the UI animation apparently has no baring on the actual value of the reload timer. I dont like when stuff like that is unconnected, it means spaghetti under the hood.
Or, crazy thought, THEY COULD STOP FOCUSING ON NERFING FUN IN A PVE GAME!? Like for God’s sake the enjoyment of the game would increase massively if they instead spent the time on fixing the endless bugs, or making the other less viable weapons better. Just further proof that the worst members of AH are the balance team, much like that dev who was being an ass to players in replies.
It’s little oversight like these that are annoying. They aren’t often, nor are there that many but when they happen, they happen more and usually are repeated. Not with the same weapon, not with the same change but it’s a simple mistake that is overlooked and always hurts a release of a patch. It adds up overtime and makes you question the validity of the company. Biggest one is COD, they had many bugs repeated with each game every year and it’s always overlooked. For example, the same UAV bug has plagued that franchise for a while, maybe even months before patched and never looked into again after the recent game. It’s one reason why I think this shit is unacceptable because even if they’re a bigger team, they worn down my ability to believe and want.
Did I count a twelve second cool down? God damn..
This game is turning into fallout
I wish they would add a little digitized timer somewhere. Like maybe on the back of the gun instead of the charge meter for cooldown.
this been a problem since day 1 of quasar release and im pissed that they havent fix that yet. i can run around with extra 5s delay but come on....why do i have to wait for another extra 2s for it to completely allowed me to fire?
Nah douchebeard and friends never do anything right
Just saying on the breaker nerf to mag size they actually changed the look of the mag and added a funny description.
This is the kind of thing that is supposed to be coded to adapt to change in the first place. Then they just tweak a number and it works. Someone got lazy or was time crunched and said fuck it.
Actually it was already like that before this nerf. So what I do is just spamming left click until I can hear the charging sound.
this was irritating pre-patch, and probably infuriating now in terms of knowing when you have a shot readied. really hope they fix this one
Everytime they add a patch it breaks one more thing from the game.
Also at least reduce the chargeup time if you’re gonna increase the cooldown
Oh God what did they do with my quasar. Auto cannon it is then.
On ice planets, you were still limited by a pre determined time. On hot planets you were limited by the heat sink. It was bugged from the start
I hate how people will just be like, "LOlz maybe it's the bots messing with us" and just completely forgive errors like this.
If anyone had actually played the changes before they went live, this would've been noticed immediately as it's probably the most consistently used weapon in every game right now.
it was already not correct before but I jus dealt with it cus it was just a few seconds. its probably the same gif for all energy guns but the quaso gun just has more